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Chivalry changes

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Yeah, figured I'd be bothered less on Test since who's going to check a demon spawn in Fire on test right?

The damage to Semidar seemed a little lower though, so maybe I'll try Semi on a production shard to be certain.
 

Lore Denin (GL)

Sage
Stratics Veteran
After another day of looking into Chiv changes I think they do a good job of balancing Chiv in pvp. I have a few minor suggestions based on my own initial tests and from reading the feedback of other testers.

Suggestions after testing changes and reading feedback:

1) Consider adding Chiv to the list of skills that reduce mana reducing for weapon specials. This always seemed like an oversight and it just makes sense to include it with other similiar skills like ninjitsu and bushido.

2) Almost everyone has mentioned the need for a concencrate wep icon when spell is in effect. If it can be done, that would be a great addition which would be universally loved.

3) Enemy of One: Timer of 8 seconds in pvp seems to short of a duration for the 20 mana and its effectiveness in combat in pvp.

I can see why you don't want the timer to be as long as it is for pvm but extending the timer for 8-16 seconds based on Chiv skill and karma would make it useful without making it overpowered. The 30% damage increase against the Paladin from all other attackers is a signifigant disadvantage which will discourages its use in all but ideal situations.

Has anyone tested the damage of an inscrib mage with 40 sdi against a pally who enemy of one'd his friend?

4) Divine Fury - Consider Reducing negative on DCI with higher Chiv and Karma similiar to how damage from cleanse by fire is reduced. DCI penalty should not be eliminated but scaled from -20 to -10 based on skill and a bonus from 0-5 based on karma level. Thus someone investing 120 chiv and maintaining the highest levels of karma would only suffer a -5 penalty whereas a 70 chiv pally with medium karma might suffer a -16 dci, etc.

5) Allow Paladins to use Dispel evil to remove reds ghosts from a champ area similiar to the necro exorsim spell [Extend that ability to faction bases for both. The Pally version of the spell would be limited in that it could only compel evil spirits to depart the area whereas the necro spell would still compel all spirits.]

6) Make necro, poisoning and stealth more difficult with Chiv. Chiv spells auto fail if necro is above 30. Stealth success chance lower when chiv is above 30. Poison level inflicted reduced by 1 when Chiv is above 30.

Good luck moving forward!

-Lore's Player
 

Klapauc

Sage
Stratics Veteran
As much as i would like to see chivalry added to the list of skills that reduce mana cost, it would not only affect the weaker pvm templates.

Some already very strong ones like Bushido archer/thrower or mystic dexxers would profit enormous from that, because it was not so easy before to have chiv and full mana cost discount on them. Especially ABC thrower would be able to spam ai at 1.5 sec without using wraith form.
It would also counter the small sampire nerf because they now get the option to drop parry, increase chivalry and add some spirit speak.

Trying to balance templates for pvm is next to impossible in uo, perhaps its better to get the weaker ones near the level of the current gimps so that everyone can have some fun.
 

Squeax

Visitor
6) Make necro, poisoning and stealth more difficult with Chiv. Chiv spells auto fail if necro is above 30. Stealth success chance lower when chiv is above 30. Poison level inflicted reduced by 1 when Chiv is above 30.
You're on the same page as me when it comes to my little "get Necro and Chiv off the same templates" campaign.

EDIT: Okay speaking of which, whaddaya think of this?

Call the concept "Opposed Skills" or something like that.

Effective Chivalry = Actual Chivalry - Actual Necromancy
Effective Necromancy = Actual Necromancy - Actual Chivalry
Effective Bushido = Actual Bushido - Actual Ninjitsu
Effective Ninjitsu = Actual Ninjitsu - Actual Bushido

Skip the Spirit Speak changes, skip the Vampiric Embrace changes, skip everything. You wanna have 100 Chiv and 40 Necro, smartypants? Now you're casting like you have 60 Chiv and 0 Necro.
 

Ender

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You're on the same page as me when it comes to my little "get Necro and Chiv off the same templates" campaign.

EDIT: Okay speaking of which, whaddaya think of this?

Call the concept "Opposed Skills" or something like that.

Effective Chivalry = Actual Chivalry - Actual Necromancy
Effective Necromancy = Actual Necromancy - Actual Chivalry
Effective Bushido = Actual Bushido - Actual Ninjitsu
Effective Ninjitsu = Actual Ninjitsu - Actual Bushido

Skip the Spirit Speak changes, skip the Vampiric Embrace changes, skip everything. You wanna have 100 Chiv and 40 Necro, smartypants? Now you're casting like you have 60 Chiv and 0 Necro.
Yeah, let's go back to nobody using anything but tamers and mages in PvM!
 

Lore Denin (GL)

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Call the concept "Opposed Skills" or something like that.

Effective Chivalry = Actual Chivalry - Actual Necromancy
Effective Necromancy = Actual Necromancy - Actual Chivalry
Effective Bushido = Actual Bushido - Actual Ninjitsu
Effective Ninjitsu = Actual Ninjitsu - Actual Bushido

Skip the Spirit Speak changes, skip the Vampiric Embrace changes, skip everything. You wanna have 100 Chiv and 40 Necro, smartypants? Now you're casting like you have 60 Chiv and 0 Necro.
Love the idea. Simple and effective solution that would effectively eliminate opposed skills on the same character.

I'd love to see the Chiv formula look like:

Effective Chiv = actual Chiv - (necromancy + poisoning/2 + actual stealth/2 + stealing/2 + snooping/2)

Chiv would be in major opposition to necro and minor opposition skills that are less the chivalrous such as stealth, snooping, stealing and poisoning.

Effective Stealth = Actual Stealth - (chiv/2 + bushido/2)

I am assuming actual skill = real skill or unmodified skill which would allow people to use items to make limited opposed skills work together.

People will find this harsh and make chiv useless. I'd argue chiv would only be useless if you plan to be a dp stealth death strike assassin necro Paladin.

When you look at that sentence which word does not belong :)

Lore's player
 

Violence

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
That could be said for just about 80% of what's out there. Lots of things DO NOT BELONG in the same exact sense..
 

Lynk

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
EoO isn't working on players on test.. unless I'm doin it wrong?

My damage increase is already capped, 120 tact, 120 anat, 150 STR.

Shooting a yumi - pre EoO damage peaked at 23.

After EoO casted at 85, 105, and 120 damage never broke over 23.
 

Logrus

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
What's your damage on the tooltip when you've used EoO and have hit the player at least once?
 

Lynk

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
What's your damage on the tooltip when you've used EoO and have hit the player at least once?
went from 60-75, to 62-78?


That damage isn't even noticeable after 70% physical.

That was with 120 chiv.
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
yea... the pvp EoO needs a boost to be anything other than a way to die faster.
 

Lynk

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
yea... the pvp EoO needs a boost to be anything other than a way to die faster.
I played around with it for a long time.. and the only benefit I was able to see from using it, was with the Yumi and using the Armor pierce. I was able to get that special up to 42 damage plus dbl hit spell (compared to like 32 dmg now on prodo), but had to drop ninja to 60 and med completely to fit 120 chiv.

EoO definitely needs a bump in PvP for it to be used. I mean, the differences I was seeing was so small - and that was with a Yumi that has a sick base damage. Just imagine how little the increases are with the lower base damage weapons.
 

Lefty

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Though I haven't tested any of this, but it sounds like EoO has been changed to something similar to perfection.

Yet due to public outcry perfection was removed from PvP entirely instead of adjusted (but was designed for pvp by Mr Tact). Just wanted to point that out.
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
You did a test demon spawn..

I dunno if i should be impressed or disappointed!

I guess the devs will be happy that someone tested a demon spawn to really test out their chiv changes lol
Hey, I took the time (10-15 min) to solo a Stygian Dragon. It went pretty well. A bit easier now that I upped my chivalry to 90.
 
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