• Hail Guest!
    We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
  • Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
  • Hail Guest!,
    Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
  • Hail Guest!
    Please read the new anncouncement concering the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the annoucnement Here!

Chivalry changes

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I never typed anything about 0 spirit speak.
Obviously. I made a point about how you can cast almost every chivalry spell and be effective at 60. You had a counterpoint saying you could cast a good handful of necro spells at 60. I was iterating the point that you would still need skill points in spirit speak to make it effective, which was my whole point to begin with. Try to keep up.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Divine Fury:
Max: 15 HCI, DI 20 SSI 15%
This is subject to the 100 DI cap from items

Consecrate:
Max Bonus Damage: 15% @ 120
This is not subject to the 100 DI cap from items.

Enemy of One:
Max Bonus Damage: 64% PvM
Max Bonus Damage: 16% PvP
This is not subject to the 100 DI cap from items.
Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly.

You can get to 115di with consecrate, but you cannot get over the 300 di cap for pvm (as you stated to Lynk earlier in the thread).
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly.

You can get to 115di with consecrate, but you cannot get over the 300 di cap for pvm (as you stated to Lynk earlier in the thread).
That's what I am gathering, or 179di with eoo and concecrate? And why is the only one on that list that has a negative affect (unless they are planning to remove it?) also subject to the 100DI from items?
 

G.v.P

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
No it dont.
Factions is based on the free flowing arties, imbued items/suits and every other "item" a pvper can get their hands on.
Please.
Even the "red" pvpers are in factions for the items.
There's no way of getting around items, UO is an item-based game since AOS. But prior to these suggested changes people can just make skill jewelry and create all kinds of God awful do it all characters, while these changes reward players for concentrating on specialized skills.
 
M

Macrophage999

Guest
CHIVALRY
The way chivalry and abilities work has been revised so that the effects, and durations now place more emphasis on skill level rather than just karma. In cases where Karma is evaluated, it will provide a modifier to the chivalry skill factor. This means that chivalry will provide a baseline for the power or duration of the effect and karma will either increase or decrease that baseline. In order to achieve the highest possible levels, both skill and karma will be required.



Divine Fury:
Bonus effects and stamina regeneration from divine fury now scale based on chivalry skill and karma. Stamina regeneration from divine fury is no longer a full refreshment, but rather a set amount of stamina.

Cleanse By Fire:
Cure chance for poison has been updated.

Enemy of One
Enemy of one has now been changed to a Spell Toggle. You can remove the effect before the duration expires by recasting the spell. (Recasting while the spell is in effect will cost 0 mana and 0 cast time)
The Damage bonus will now Scale based on Chivalry Skill. Duration Will Scale with Chivalry and Karma
(PvP)
Enemy of One will now work against Players and Pets. The damage increase cap will be significantly reduced and apply ONLY to the player or Pet being attacked. Damage received from all other sources will be increased by 30% while this ability is in effect versus a player or pet. Duration is capped at 8 seconds for PvP.
Remove Curse
The difficulty of successfully removing curses now scales with the level and number of curses in effect in addition to factoring chivalry skill and karma.

Consecrate Weapon
Consecrate Weapon no longer guarantees damage against a target’s weakest resist. Concecrate weapon now provides a scaling chance to do damage against the targets weakest resist type. At 90+ Chivalry, consecrate weapon will also offer a damage increase in addition to optimal damage type.
I am sorry but all of this is pure garbage. It s not sound at all. Do the devs even play the game? Chiv is one of the most useless skills as is, and those changes make it even more useless.

1) Divine fury: main purpose was the stam refresh; with that nerf, we ll rely even more on pots, i.e spell useless.

2) Consecrate weapon: why use that when you can use 100% elemental wep towards that damage anyway? The only one who are going to be nerfed are the new players who don't have good gear yet... You should better have buffed the spell so it provides some interest.

3) Cleanse by fire:
Does it mean it was buffed? then it would be cool.

4) Enemy of one: That thing was the only reason to have some chiv. Besides the fact I don't understand exactly how the DI effect will work. As is, let's say you have a slayer = 200% then with 50% EOO you reach 1.5 * 200% = 300% cap. As I understand it now your cap will be 265% So even with 120 chiv you ll have less DI than currently. just WOW.
So you basically killed the only real incentive into having some chiv... The fact that you can cancel the spell instead of having it time out is good though.

I wonder how many people will cancel their accounts along with those changes... Some other players who actually play the game pointed out other flaws.
 

Nimuaq

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Besides the fact I don't understand exactly how the DI effect will work. As is, let's say you have a slayer = 200% then with 50% EOO you reach 1.5 * 200% = 300% cap.
This is a very good point. How the damage increase from EoO is applied (currently in prod shards and with the changes) is something that needs to be given and checked inside the code too.

According to the damage calculator, we first apply the damage increase bonus from the skills and stats (Anatomy, Tactics, Lumberjacking and Strength) which are not subject to the 300% DI cap. Then we add the DI bonus from items, which are subject to the 300% cap and can only be 100% at most.

With 120 Tactics, Anatomy and Strength, you have 81% + 65% + 41% = 187% DI bonus. We add the DI bonus from items to this.

With a regular bow without any DI bonus, I give 18 - 22 damage to a dragon (tested in Destard). Considering an average dragon has 60% physical resistance, these values correspond roughly to the 0.4 times 43 - 54 (60% resistance, 40% of the final damage is dealt) to the damage calculator values. Adding 65% DI bonus from items (bracelet, talisman, etc.), I give 21 - 27 damage, which again fits to the damage calculator values of 52 - 66 multiplied by 40%.

However, when I use EoO, my damage becomes 32 - 40. If it was added just like item bonuses, it should have been 24 - 31. In fact, 32 - 40 is just 1.5 times (50% more of) 21 - 27 which is my previous damage with the item bonuses. I tested it with slayers and EoO also multiplies the final damage with slayer with 1.5 times too.

My question is: is it true that EoO multiplies the final damage with the DI and slayer bonus with 1.5 times (as in 50% bonus to final damage instead of 50% DI bonus)? If so, will the Consecrate Weapon and Divine Fury spells also multiply the final damage with DI bonus?

In other words, for 50% EoO and 20% Divine Fury, is it 1.7 times the final damage (50% + 20% = 70% more damage) or multiplied one after another like 1.5 * 1.2 = 1.8 times the final damage?
 

Logrus

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
There are basically two ways damage is calculated from weapons.
There is the damage increase, which is usually applied as a fraction of weapon damage, and then there are damage modifiers which act on the total damage after the damage increases have been applied.

So theres Damage Increase, and Damage Modifier.

The damage % on your weapon is a damage increase type. So a 50% Damage increase weapon or 50% damage increase on your items, adds an additional 50% of your weapon damage to your base damage.

So if you were using a kryss with base damage 11-13 and factored in all your strength, tactics and anatomy and were hitting for 20-25 and you added 50% Damage increase to the kryss or equipped 50% damage increase worth of items, your damage would increase by 50% of the 11 -13 which is about 6 points giving you a total of 26-31.
Your total damage increase limit from items in this case would be 100% or an additional 11-13 points.

Divine Fury is like equipping items with damage increase on them.

Consecrate and Enemy of One, are damage modifier effects, ( similar to slayers) which take the final damage, and multiply it.
So if your weapon was 11-13 and your damage after factoring strength, tatics and anatomy was 20-25, and you cast enemy of one at 50%, you would be getting a damage out of 1.5 * the 20-25 which is 30-37.


120 Chivalry with these changes using consecrate, divine fury, and enemy of one provides 79% ( 1.79x) damage modifier and a
20% base damage increase.

Chivalry as in production provides 50% (1.5x) damage modifier damage from enemy of one, and 10% base damage increase from divine fury.

I hope that clarifies it some.
 

Nimuaq

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Thanks Logrus, it did clarified a lot! I just need one more clarification:

If consecrate weapon and enemy of one provides 79% ( 1.79x) damage modifier, it means damage modifiers are added one after another before being multiplied with the final base damage (since Enemy of One at 120 Chivalry is 64% and consecrate weapon is 15%, it makes 79% damage modifier only if added).

However, after casting Enemy of One, I see 50% more damage from the damage I made using a super slayer weapon while I should have seen 25% more if super slayer damage modifier is only added and not multiplied. (100%+50%=2.5x damage modifier, 100%=2x damage modifier, 2.5/2=1.25=25% more if added)

I tested it on the minions of scelestus with a demon slayer bow and had these results:

18 - 23 - no slayer, no eoo (base)
26 - 32 - no slayer, with eoo (~1.5x)
35 - 46 - with slayer, no eoo (~2x)
56 - 70 - with slayer, with eoo (~3x, not 2.5x)

So, does the slayer damage modifier is multiplied after the other modifiers and not added to the bonuses from the spells? I haven't noticed any difference using enemy of one on lesser slayers since I probably hit the cap with 200% from lesser slayer and another 100% from items (assuming 300% is for the total of both damage increase and damage modifier).
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
There are basically two ways damage is calculated from weapons.
There is the damage increase, which is usually applied as a fraction of weapon damage, and then there are damage modifiers which act on the total damage after the damage increases have been applied.

So theres Damage Increase, and Damage Modifier.

The damage % on your weapon is a damage increase type. So a 50% Damage increase weapon or 50% damage increase on your items, adds an additional 50% of your weapon damage to your base damage.

So if you were using a kryss with base damage 11-13 and factored in all your strength, tactics and anatomy and were hitting for 20-25 and you added 50% Damage increase to the kryss or equipped 50% damage increase worth of items, your damage would increase by 50% of the 11 -13 which is about 6 points giving you a total of 26-31.
Your total damage increase limit from items in this case would be 100% or an additional 11-13 points.

Divine Fury is like equipping items with damage increase on them.

Consecrate and Enemy of One, are damage modifier effects, ( similar to slayers) which take the final damage, and multiply it.
So if your weapon was 11-13 and your damage after factoring strength, tatics and anatomy was 20-25, and you cast enemy of one at 50%, you would be getting a damage out of 1.5 * the 20-25 which is 30-37.


120 Chivalry with these changes using consecrate, divine fury, and enemy of one provides 79% ( 1.79x) damage modifier and a
20% base damage increase.

Chivalry as in production provides 50% (1.5x) damage modifier damage from enemy of one, and 10% base damage increase from divine fury.

I hope that clarifies it some.
This is a bit helpful and certainly clear enough within its context. Only question I have is why is Divine Fury limited to the item DI cap?
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
Here it is....ANYONE can cast those chiv spells at 60 and "be effective", so why this change is needed again?
Some ya'll act like your not allowed, or at least ya post like it.
Im just sayin.....
Again, instead of modifying Chivalry let us just force all characters to have 120 focus for Chivalry to be effective, should bring it closer to Necromancy.
 

Dan123The123Man

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The Chiv mage -

I can see how some of you may disagree with me, but am I the only one that remembers the Nox Tank Chiv Mage years ago? Obviously it was before they made it so you need less then 70 Magery for the chiv to really be effective. I for one have been a fan of the Chiv Mage since 06 and I think that to be 120 Chivalry with ofcourse the high karma for the full effectiveness is a bit much. It is already hard enough trying to be a Chiv Mage with the nerf you guys gave to us years ago where we can only have 69.9 magery or less. So that being said it's hard enough trying to cram a good template together and near impossible to put together a good offensive template WITH chivalry. This is what i've been playing and love it so far:

120 resist
120 eval
120 tame
110 lore
100 anatomy
80 chivalry
69 magery


If the requirement to get the full affect of Chivalry is bumped up to 120 then that makes it to where 1. I can take off resist or 2. Say to hell with the taming in which i'd lose a LOT of offense. The Chiv Mage will be very hard to build imo because you can't go the Nox route with only 69 magery + GM poisoning = not really worth it imo. You are subject to only 15 SDI since its a Chiv Mage and not PURE Chiv or PURE Mage. With the changes to the Enchanted Apple timer I couldn't imagine playing without Chivalry for the Remove Curse. You figure when you get to half health and get mortaled you apple out, you can either run around for 45 seconds until the apple wears off or you can sit there and watch them mortal you again at half health and not be able to do anything about it :-/. Don't make this change for the sake of the Chiv Mages out there. The template I was able to come up with below lacks a lot of Offense but thats because you would have to get rid of the taming and lore to make it.

120 parry
120 chivalry
100 anatomy
120 eval
120 resist
69 magery
71 meditation

As you can see with the template above you would have good survivability. Again though this gives you almost NO major offense :(.You can ditch the parry and pickup GM Scribe and instead of 71 meditation go with 91, or even instead of GM anatomy pickup 120 wrestle (up to you). I am just saying though, it makes it VERY difficult to make a classic Chiv Mage if we are going to need 120 skill for the full effectiveness. I don't even want to think about how it will be fighting a dexer that can spam mortal strike on me and me only be able to use an Enchanted Apple once every 45 seconds, no thanks lol.

Having the taming in the template or being able to fit that in without losing the magic resist gave it more offense and helps a lot. At only 69 magery against somebody with 120 resist its very hard to poison them, thats where the taming came in handy. You had some more offense there. If you make it so we need 120 Chivalry with only 69 magery people can basically just heal through all the damage, because we won't be able to have a pet to help out or anything. Sure you can survive with that parry chiv mage setup, but after trying the template out myself it's most definatelly NOT as fun as being a tamer chiv mage.

If it's still hard for you to understand, look at it this way. At 69 magery you can cast up to fourth circle spells 100% of the time (that includes ur spells any mage would use in a 1v1 duel basically, including harms, magic arrow, lightning, fireball, weakens/feebles, poisons). You can cast 5th circle I believe it's 77% of the time and that includes your curses/magic reflection. So what you don't have here is explotion or flamestrike. It makes it VERY hard to build the template if you have to have 120 Chivalry. Again though, you could drop the parry and pickup scribe but that doesn't make it any easier to poison your target. With a pet it makes it easier and if you make this change to Chivalry where you need 120, it will hurt Chiv mages even more.
 

Violence

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Thanks Logrus. Much clearer now. Allow me to say that there is no reason not to tweak Stamina gained through Fury as Total Refresh Pots can be constantly used.. Meaning this should be addressed. The whole Potion System is silly, except Heals.
 
M

Macrophage999

Guest
There are basically two ways damage is calculated from weapons.
There is the damage increase, which is usually applied as a fraction of weapon damage, and then there are damage modifiers which act on the total damage after the damage increases have been applied.

So theres Damage Increase, and Damage Modifier.

The damage % on your weapon is a damage increase type. So a 50% Damage increase weapon or 50% damage increase on your items, adds an additional 50% of your weapon damage to your base damage.

So if you were using a kryss with base damage 11-13 and factored in all your strength, tactics and anatomy and were hitting for 20-25 and you added 50% Damage increase to the kryss or equipped 50% damage increase worth of items, your damage would increase by 50% of the 11 -13 which is about 6 points giving you a total of 26-31.
Your total damage increase limit from items in this case would be 100% or an additional 11-13 points.

Divine Fury is like equipping items with damage increase on them.

Consecrate and Enemy of One, are damage modifier effects, ( similar to slayers) which take the final damage, and multiply it.
So if your weapon was 11-13 and your damage after factoring strength, tatics and anatomy was 20-25, and you cast enemy of one at 50%, you would be getting a damage out of 1.5 * the 20-25 which is 30-37.


120 Chivalry with these changes using consecrate, divine fury, and enemy of one provides 79% ( 1.79x) damage modifier and a
20% base damage increase.

Chivalry as in production provides 50% (1.5x) damage modifier damage from enemy of one, and 10% base damage increase from divine fury.

I hope that clarifies it some.
Thank for the clarifications. I assume that it actually doesnt change anything in the game mechanics (ie you will still cap with super slayer and EOO). It could thus provide some incentive towards the non slayer monsters to go up to 120 chiv on non bushido templates or monsters you can't honor.
 

Obsidian

Crazed Zealot
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
No they will allow you to reach the cap without using items though.
Ok, I am re-reading your notes above. So what I think you are saying is that Damage Increase is maxxed at 100. With 120 Chiv, EOO will give 20 DI. So I can have only 80 DI on my suit/weapon combined and with 120 Chiv EOO be at 100 DI. If I have 100 DI on the suit and 20 DI from 120 Chiv EOO I will in effect waste 20 DI.

And for Damage Modifier, at 120 Chiv that is 79%. So with 100 Base Modifier + Perfection (100 Damage Modifier) and 120 Chiv EOO (.79 * 200 = 158) I would be at 358 Modifier increase but this is scaled back to the 300 cap. I'm not sure I got the 100 Base correct, but don't see how it adds to 300 otherwise.

-OBSIDIAN-
 

Logrus

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You can get 20 DI from Divine Fury, and 50% Damage Modifier (1.64x) from Enemy of One, and finally 15% Damage modifier (1.15x) from Consecrate.

Going by what I remember seeing in code it works like this.
You can increase your base damage by up to 300%. This is limited to 100% from items. So basically if you maxed out damage increase from items, maxed tactics, maxed strength, maxed anatomy you could do 4x your weapon damage as base.
(In the case of a kryss 11- 13 base, your hit increase could be up to 44-52.

Now for damage modifiers, such as slayers, super slayers etc, you get a modifier to the above base damage.
Your total damage modifiers can be up to 300% or 3x the base damage above.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You can get 20 DI from Divine Fury, and 50% Damage Modifier (1.64x) from Enemy of One, and finally 15% Damage modifier (1.15x) from Consecrate.

Going by what I remember seeing in code it works like this.
You can increase your base damage by up to 300%. This is limited to 100% from items. So basically if you maxed out damage increase from items, maxed tactics, maxed strength, maxed anatomy you could do 4x your weapon damage as base.
(In the case of a kryss 11- 13 base, your hit increase could be up to 44-52.

Now for damage modifiers, such as slayers, super slayers etc, you get a modifier to the above base damage.
Your total damage modifiers can be up to 300% or 3x the base damage above.
The only thing I'm having a hard time figuring out is the DI added for consecrate at levels under 120 (especially since there is no icon for consecrate *hint* *hint*).

How do we calculate the DI added at 90/95/100/105/110/115 and also the % of chance to hit a creature's lowest resist at those levels?

I ask because as we'll all be adjusting our templates, I'm trying to see if 120 chivalry will be necessary. Obviously it'll be nice at 120 for EEO, but I'm more concerned about overall mobs than 1 EOO target.
 

Obsidian

Crazed Zealot
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
I don't like using divine fury because it lowers DCI. Will you be removing the DCI loss?

It will also to tough to keep both divine fury and consecrate weapon up as they run out fairly quickly. Will you lengthen the timer for CW to 12-15 seconds at 120 Chiv?
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I still see the -20 dci on the icon on test center Obsidian.

You know you can copy your character from your main shard in your help menu on your paperdoll right? Just copy your samp to test using that feature, and you can test out everything there moments later.

I just couldn't figure out DI from 90 or 100 chiv using consecrate while fighting dragons because I'm a tad clueless I guess. Figuring out timers on the other hand just takes a stop watch, and of course I can't find my watch now that I finally have a use for it. It did seem like consecrate lasted 2-3 more seconds from 90 to 120 though.
 

Obsidian

Crazed Zealot
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
My kids locked the door to my computer room so I have to take the door knob off first. :) I'll get to it later today. Good reminder on the char copy. I was wondering how I would get a bonded swampy to test the changes with my sampire. Bummer on the DF DCI reduction. Maybe it would be nice if it scaled with chiv.
 

Nimuaq

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I was wondering how I would get a bonded swampy to test the changes with my sampire.
Use the character copy option, it will copy your bank box, backpack, equipped items and pets (in the stable or following you, will be bonded on TC1 too) and it will also give you a nice reward title.

You can unpack your backpack to your new backpack, re-equip all the items you had and claim all the pets you had around during the transfer (not the stabled ones, you can claim them from the stables in TC1) by selecting "Open Transfer Crate" option on your context menu (the same way you open the titles menu or the insurance menu), clicking on the corresponding container inside the Transfer Crate (for the context menu of the container) and selecting the "Unpack" option. You will see different containers for your backpack, your worn equipment, your bank box and your pets.
 

AzSel

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It seems to me, Enemy of One, costing 20 mana, lasts way to short in pvp. Id say either lower mana cost or have the duration scale on skill/karma like Divine Fury making it last 20-30 seconds.
 

Logrus

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
For Consecrate damage:
1% Bonus damage per 2 points in Chivalry above 90.
So 5% at 100 Chiv, 10% at 110 Chiv, 15% at 120 Chiv.

Also with the Change to the way the durations are calculated, all durations have a higher cap for the chivalry abilities.

Also a higher cap for healing.

Remove curse also a little bit more karma friendly.
 

AzSel

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
(PVP)Duration was somewhat short on Enemy of One even at 120 skill and 21k karma, barely able to swing and hit 3 times for the 20 mana it cost to cast it.
 

Logrus

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The duration, in PvP is lmited to 8 but it does stack with specials so it does provide a nice enhancement to burst damage.
 

Basara

UO Forum Moderator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Here's an idea for PvP Enemy of One that makes a bit more sense:

The spell would make it a fight between two people -

1. The caster gets the expected DI against his foe
2. The targeted foe gets HALF that DI against the caster
3. Neither gets bonus damage against anyone that interferes, BUT
4. PC-controlled mobiles (other characters, pets - or the pet owner if the EoO is against the pet) take as much damage as they inflict (By ANY Means) if they attack either person in the fight.
5. Persons already in an EoO fight cannot be targeted by a different one (unless it's the target casting back on the original- see 6 below), until the spell expires or is toggled. Either participant dying breaks the spell.
6. if both participants EoO each other, persons interfering (As in 4.) take return damage from both spells.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
For Consecrate damage:
1% Bonus damage per 2 points in Chivalry above 90.
So 5% at 100 Chiv, 10% at 110 Chiv, 15% at 120 Chiv.

Also with the Change to the way the durations are calculated, all durations have a higher cap for the chivalry abilities.

Also a higher cap for healing.

Remove curse also a little bit more karma friendly.
Groovy. Thanks for clarification.
 

jbfortune

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I love UO!

A skill that pretty much no one complains about, they put lots of into. Good job.

Anyway, am I seeing this right? Basically with Chiv as everyone has it now (60-70ish) DI will be decreased? So people this wont affect are people who can afford some of the pricier items with DI on them. Rightio!

I also see everyone things the toggle switch on EoO is a good idea as well. I'm not so sure. The situations I use my samp in, I'm just recasting EoO every time I fight a diff mob. At no point does it ever run out of time. Now I'll have to cast it once to fight an enemy, cast it again once that enemy is dead and then cast it again to fight the next enemy. AN EXTRA CAST FOR ME!!!!!!!!

Clearly I'm being personally nerfed.
 

Squeax

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
Making necromancer forms give a continuous drain of karma, and maybe a burn effect from casting chivalry spells, would be just dandy. Please enough of the holy virtuous undead fiends.
 

Basara

UO Forum Moderator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Making necromancer forms give a continuous drain of karma, and maybe a burn effect from casting chivalry spells, would be just dandy. Please enough of the holy virtuous undead fiends.
Unlike your statements in the Special Move discussion, this is something we're 100% in agreement on. But, let's not stop at karma drain

Lich form already has a HP drain - it needs to be higher, so it can't be so easily countered by HP Regeneration, plus the karma drain you mention.

Horrific Beast should have a similar Mana Drain (if you can't cast in the form, and it's supposed to be that of a brutish demon, why should it retain all that mana for special moves?).

Wraith Form could have a Stamina drain (it can't be easy, willing part of an incorporeal form corporeal enough to use a weapon)

Vampiric Embrace should have all 3, divided by 3 (and without the "won't die at 0" safeguard of the lich). In other words, if the other 3 changes lose 1 point every second, the Vampire loses 1 point per second, cycling through all 3 stats in a set order (total of 1 each every 3 seconds).
 

AzSel

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Making necromancer forms give a continuous drain of karma, and maybe a burn effect from casting chivalry spells, would be just dandy. Please enough of the holy virtuous undead fiends.
Hoh! Well said, I do agree.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I love UO!

A skill that pretty much no one complains about, they put lots of into. Good job.

Anyway, am I seeing this right? Basically with Chiv as everyone has it now (60-70ish) DI will be decreased? So people this wont affect are people who can afford some of the pricier items with DI on them. Rightio!

I also see everyone things the toggle switch on EoO is a good idea as well. I'm not so sure. The situations I use my samp in, I'm just recasting EoO every time I fight a diff mob. At no point does it ever run out of time. Now I'll have to cast it once to fight an enemy, cast it again once that enemy is dead and then cast it again to fight the next enemy. AN EXTRA CAST FOR ME!!!!!!!!

Clearly I'm being personally nerfed.
You need to reread everything apparently because everything you just said is incorrect.
 

jbfortune

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You need to reread everything apparently because everything you just said is incorrect.
Are you following me around or something? Notice I said am I seeing this right? Maybe you could explain it instead of just being an unhelpful ass.... Also, I don't love UO? Ok.....

As for the EoO, how is my personal opinion wrong?
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Are you following me around or something? Notice I said am I seeing this right? Maybe you could explain it instead of just being an unhelpful ass.... Also, I don't love UO? Ok.....

As for the EoO, how is my personal opinion wrong?
Wait a minute here. You don't love uo??? Then why have you posted almost 1200 times on the uo stratics forums in the last 2 1/2 years? lol Maybe if you read things fully instead of just hitting the post button, you'd save yourself some headaches.

EOO lasts quite long still for pvm.
It is short in duration for pvp.
You can toggle it on and off.
You get 64% DI if you have 120 chiv.
It's amazing.

Consecrate weapon starts giving you DI at 92 skill.
Consecrate DOES NOT take away DI at less than that skill.
Consecrate wep gives you 15 DI at 120 chiv (which goes over the 100 DI cap).

Please don't call me an ass. I find it offensive. :p
 

Squeax

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
Unlike your statements in the Special Move discussion, this is something we're 100% in agreement on. But, let's not stop at karma drain (paraphrased) LET'S DESTROY NECROMANCY COMPLETELY SO THAT NO ONE USES IT!
Your suggestions are all a bunch of nonsense that would basically delete Necromancy from UO. Necromancy and Chivalry are both fine taken individually. They're only a balance problem when Necro, Chiv, and Bushido are all piled onto a single template.

We don't want to RUIN or even really nerf any one of those three skills, we just want to separate them. Giving Necro forms a karma drain and a burn effect from Chiv spells separates it from Chivalry without doing a single thing to nerf anyone who only has one of the two.

Galen is running around yelling that we need to separate Necro from Bush, but I've seen no useful suggestion on how to do that without actually nerfing either skill. Plus that would have the effect of keeping Necromancer Paladins on top of the heap, and that's a combination that doesn't even make any damn sense.
 

Violence

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Re: Chivalry

Two observations.. First, such conflicting of Skills can be seen in Bushido/Ninjitsu characters, Mage/Melee characters.. Necro-Dins are not the only completely ridiculous combination.

Second.. These combinations are ridiculous because merging such Skills does not produce a different Stand-Alone Template with its own + and - ... Every Skill added is just + and while that makes sense for related Skills, conflicting ones should be checked.. Fallen Paladins are always fun. Warlocks too. It's only that they need to be more particular so to speak. If this can't be done then either have each of those Skills severely limit(But not punish a player for making this choice) its opposite or have them be mutually exclusive.

Or what they are doing now by offering Bonuses for Specializing in Skills.
 

Squeax

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
Re: Chivalry

If you want to get all RP about it, "Fallen Paladins" are supposed to lose their powers. And probably have negative karma. Being fallen and all.
 

Violence

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Re: Chivalry

Precisely. And gain NEW Abilities related to them having Fallen to.. What? A Dark God? Anything at all, that's just Lore..

I was only trying to make a point, so in that particular example, typically a Fallen Paladin could be WoW's Death Knight (Arthas was just THAT in fact - WC3 Lore) with completely new Abilities and disadvantages. Please spend more than 1" considering I'm only using this as an EXAMPLE if you are about to tell me I want "More WOW into UO"?

So no, I wasn't trying to put any RP into it. Not that that would be silly.. This IS an RPG. :dunce:
 

Squeax

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
Re: Chivalry

Bit of trivia: Both the UO Necromancer and the WoW Death Knight were designed by the same man, Tom "Kalgan" Chilton, formerly known as Evocare.
 

jbfortune

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wait a minute here. You don't love uo??? Then why have you posted almost 1200 times on the uo stratics forums in the last 2 1/2 years? lol Maybe if you read things fully instead of just hitting the post button, you'd save yourself some headaches.

EOO lasts quite long still for pvm.
It is short in duration for pvp.
You can toggle it on and off.
You get 64% DI if you have 120 chiv.
It's amazing.

Consecrate weapon starts giving you DI at 92 skill.
Consecrate DOES NOT take away DI at less than that skill.
Consecrate wep gives you 15 DI at 120 chiv (which goes over the 100 DI cap).

Please don't call me an ass. I find it offensive. :p
If you're going to act like an ass, I'll call you an ass.

My point about not loving UO was because when I said I love it, you told me everything in my post was wrong... Which going on your post just here, is clearly not correct. You've made an assumption, an incorrect one that when I said DI will be decreased, I literally meant, you would lose DI. Why on earth would that be the case. Instead of assuming, maybe ask more questions or use your common sense before you post such condescending crap.

As I said, if people stick with the same Chiv as to what they currently have (60-70) they wont be getting as much DI they would with the old Chiv. Is that correct? You're telling me about 120 chiv which I don't care about.
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
If you're going to act like an ass, I'll call you an ass.

My point about not loving UO was because when I said I love it, you told me everything in my post was wrong... Which going on your post just here, is clearly not correct. You've made an assumption, an incorrect one that when I said DI will be decreased, I literally meant, you would lose DI. Why on earth would that be the case. Instead of assuming, maybe ask more questions or use your common sense before you post such condescending crap.

As I said, if people stick with the same Chiv as to what they currently have (60-70) they wont be getting as much DI they would with the old Chiv. Is that correct? You're telling me about 120 chiv which I don't care about.

You take sh1t too personal...
 

Cailleach

Babbling Loonie
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
*sighs*

Lets try this again. No name calling. It's against RoC. If you are unsure what our RoC actually are, please look at this link, have a wee read and come back when you've got the hang of them.

Stratics Forums - FAQ
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
If you're going to act like an ass, I'll call you an ass.

My point about not loving UO was because when I said I love it, you told me everything in my post was wrong... Which going on your post just here, is clearly not correct. You've made an assumption, an incorrect one that when I said DI will be decreased, I literally meant, you would lose DI. Why on earth would that be the case. Instead of assuming, maybe ask more questions or use your common sense before you post such condescending crap.

As I said, if people stick with the same Chiv as to what they currently have (60-70) they wont be getting as much DI they would with the old Chiv. Is that correct? You're telling me about 120 chiv which I don't care about.
This is a misconception on my part of you thinking DI will be decreased with lower chiv using consecrate wep?

"Basically with Chiv as everyone has it now (60-70ish) DI will be decreased?"

Fail. Your entire post was incorrect.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Just tested out a demon spawn on test center, and actually did the entire spawn faster with the new changes.

Love the new changes.

Wait, I mean...THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!
 

jbfortune

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
This is a misconception on my part of you thinking DI will be decreased with lower chiv using consecrate wep?

"Basically with Chiv as everyone has it now (60-70ish) DI will be decreased?"

Fail. Your entire post was incorrect.
Oh god, I hope you're just doing it on purpose now. So this will be my final post to you on this subject. Good luck in future arguments..
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Just tested out a demon spawn on test center, and actually did the entire spawn faster with the new changes.

Love the new changes.

Wait, I mean...THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!
You did a test demon spawn..

I dunno if i should be impressed or disappointed!

I guess the devs will be happy that someone tested a demon spawn to really test out their chiv changes lol
 
Top