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Wow that map was awesome what else did you see?Awful quiet in this thread.
Gonna be playing vaporware soon!
Go ahead and deny it will release. Step up.
I'd happily be wrong but we still have not seen anything other than a TC2
Not much of a step up. Can you ever make a decision one way or another? You never say yes, never say no, so you think you cant be wrong.
Probably because this thread started back in May 2022 and we've had like 2 updates from the Dev team about NL since then.... there is only so much speculation that can be done. It's been quiet in this thread for months at a time when there haven't been any updates (before July, the last comment was in May)...and last time I checked UO.com there wasn't any update on there about NL and there hasn't been a newsletter sent out.Awful quiet in this thread.
Gonna be playing vaporware soon!
I'll quote you... "they will let us know when there is something to know about NL". So until then, what else would are you expecting to see in this thread?
I love how them putting up something called TC2 is supposed to be some kind of ”gotcha.”
Six months we haven’t heard any updates, seen any demos, or been given even a slightest hint of actually functionally other than “trust us it will be cool.” I find it disappointing that the management of UO has gotten this bad but yet the pom pom wavers are acting like those of us who are getting frustrated are the problem.
iv_ghost_ix
Visitor
This is exactly the problem, even on the official forums. Anytime people start complaining about the lack of communication, people get upset and begin to say that the players are the problem.
The issue is that there is little to no communication from the developers at all. Plain and simple. There is a sever lack of information on what to expect anymore from them. How can the official UO fanbase continue to stay positive about the direction our game is going when it almost seems like the developer could care less to keep us in the dark.
There is a problem and you're right.
The all knowing @Pawain says it's alpha and lord knows he speaks for Mesanna
Many moons ago I stood by brit forge selling my GM wares, and it was good business.
For fun I went into the dungeons and pulled 10k per hour in gold and got a nice item or two, and it was good times.
10k bought you a nice sword of power, 20k a good vanq... and 50k was the ultimate - an amazing silver vanq.
Working to GM was HARD, which made it worthwhile. Owning a small house made you richer than most.
With the population gone, can we not wipe, reset, and go hard again? It was really fun.
Oh, and trap boxes, and sneaking, and being naughty... yes please! If people have to be good in real life, then the game should make that optional. Who wants to PLAY real life when you LIVE real life, eh?
K, I'll shut up now. Speekins humunz is nod funz. Dis game be much funz back in dah daY!
For fun I went into the dungeons and pulled 10k per hour in gold and got a nice item or two, and it was good times.
10k bought you a nice sword of power, 20k a good vanq... and 50k was the ultimate - an amazing silver vanq.
Working to GM was HARD, which made it worthwhile. Owning a small house made you richer than most.
With the population gone, can we not wipe, reset, and go hard again? It was really fun.
Oh, and trap boxes, and sneaking, and being naughty... yes please! If people have to be good in real life, then the game should make that optional. Who wants to PLAY real life when you LIVE real life, eh?
K, I'll shut up now. Speekins humunz is nod funz. Dis game be much funz back in dah daY!
I'm just going to pull this little nugget back to the top - NL was announced in 2020 after a six-month delay in announcing it (supposedly, at that time, they had been working on it for a year already). So, the release of Alpha for something allegedly in production since 2019 is NOT a success metric. Not only that, but we still have not seen or heard anything regarding what NL will be. Yep, there are seasons, vague details on QoL enhancements, and weather. That is all we have been told after four years of development.
1) Covid is not an excuse as there was minimal impact on the tech sector as WFH was commonplace already
2) "Someone" having health issues and causing a complete stoppage of work is not an excuse. Yes, it's a small team, but we know it was Messena who was out. Losing the PM on a project will have an impact on delivery, but to bring everything to a complete halt shows a complete failure in PMO
3) All of this frustration with the player base could have been avoided with a little bit of communication
1) Covid is not an excuse as there was minimal impact on the tech sector as WFH was commonplace already
2) "Someone" having health issues and causing a complete stoppage of work is not an excuse. Yes, it's a small team, but we know it was Messena who was out. Losing the PM on a project will have an impact on delivery, but to bring everything to a complete halt shows a complete failure in PMO
3) All of this frustration with the player base could have been avoided with a little bit of communication
- Awards
- 5
It's worrying that they haven't shown anything for a very long time, no screenshots, video, or even just a list of new features. They missed out on another Anniversary launch, at this rate they will be very lucky to get it out for next year's Anniversary. Other game companies constantly post updates on new projects to create anticipation, BS just continue their usual silence.
Why are any of you guys shocked?
It's been the same story going on for years. Delays, false promises and let downs.
A team who doesn't play the game and cannot be bothered to do so. What have they done to show a ounce of interest?
It's been the same story going on for years. Delays, false promises and let downs.
A team who doesn't play the game and cannot be bothered to do so. What have they done to show a ounce of interest?
C'mon... they logged on for 4 hours total that one day in July for the Summer BBQ to show they were interested and hard at work the entire summer (hence the zero communication for 3-4 months)! I guess it's easy to forget since Mesanna tore it all down within 30min of the event being over.
Shocked? Not really, it's just been a bad week and I'm more annoyed that certain posters feel those of us voicing concern are the real problem - “They just released alpha see! See! You guys are mean. Messena did nothing wrong! Leave her alone!”
I do what she does for a living, and if my performance was at her level I’d be out of a job. The lack of accountability is nearly as discouraging as the lack of communication. The fact some people won't accept that irks me (though my being irked at some people who have their heads in the sand really is a “me” issue I suppose).
So what 26 year old game do you produce that has 4 other team members? I'd like to critique what you think is a good job. Oh, its vapor ware...
Thank you for showing us just how horrible of a PM Mesanna is. She only has 4 people (technically 5 since Parallax joined 1.5 years ago) under her to manage and she can't even effectively do that.
I know you have zero concept of a project team, amongst other things, but the PM's main duty is to communicate to people outside of the team. Her track record speaks for itself. She goes months and month with zero communication at all and then when she does speak she has proven she hardly knows her own product when asked questions by the player base (ie she didn't even know reapers weren't doing damage for 10+ years). She's also terrible at answering questions because she is easily triggered as soon as someone asks a question that puts her in a position where she doesn't know the answer or they won't accept "we will look into it" as an answer (like why aren't any bugs being fixed or why aren't they policing 3rd party clients). She can't handle any sort of topic with any substance.
The only thing she is equipped to deal with are the empty questions asking for a new hue of deer mask or cream pie.
She is a perfect example of someone being promoted to management simply because they were just around long enough and not necessarily based on any management/people skills.
Honestly, no credentials I give you are going to mean anything to you as you’ve repeatedly shown that you have no understanding of SDLC or PMO.
As for the team size, that’s irrelevent as it’s not the team size nor the speed of development that is the issue but rather the complete breakdown of project management basics. Standard outputs for a product manager as follows
1) Roadmap of high level initatives - These are generally lacking in details but give the overall accomplishments that the team is looking to acheive. This goes beyond listing out planned events though that is part of it.
2) Status Reports - REGULAR updates regarding milestones and delays. Delays happen, they’re ok to happen, but they need to be communicated. We’re not owed some detailed explaination as to why, but we also deserve better than an excuse that’s obviously BS.
3) Functionality Demos - As features are developed product demos are given to key stakeholders. There is an arguement here that the players are not the key stakeholder but rather the product being sold to the shareholders. However, in this case development demos serve to keep the player (e.g., the product) engaged
Those three things alone would solve the majority of the current disastisfaction amongst the player base. Sure, you’re always going to have those people who are going to rant over some item giving +5% instead of +15% or the color of some rando garbage, but that’s noise that gets lost amongst a happy and engaged player base.
Here are three easy things that Messena should consider
1) Stop the M&G - She’s not prepared to answer questions off the cuff and to be blunt she is not a people person. You can tell she clearly does not like interacting with people who aren’t going to bow at her feet
2) Publish a Monthly Newsletter - Could be a newsletter, blog, vlog, whatever the medium is really not as critical as long as it is consistent and quality. It’s obvious the newsletter quality has dropped significantly. Take questions from the community just as you would the M&G but provide meaningful answers instead of “we’ll look into it.” Provide meaningful updates regarding the state of the game though the news letter would be smaller updates not the big reveals.
3) Provide Quarterly updates as to the state of the game - This is where they should be discussing the roadmap and showing demos of work
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Using facts in any discussion with Pawain useless
So you two also need a sticky note on your PC that says, NL is not ready yet. Daily communication and you will be happy.
All the years I have played games, I usually do not know who or how many developers they have. Nor have I waited for a newsletter. I play for entertainment, when that game stops entertaining me, I move to another.
All the years I have played games, I usually do not know who or how many developers they have. Nor have I waited for a newsletter. I play for entertainment, when that game stops entertaining me, I move to another.
No one minds that YOU don't want or need communication it's you fighting against it that bothers people
God I love this thread. It's like being at a support group for abused spouses. Half of the room is like, "we deserved it" while the other half is like, "I know he can change, if I just give him one more chance."
The truth is NL may or may not happen but either way, it's going to suck. This team hasn't built anything decent since they took the project over. To think that they will make anything decent now is straight ridiculous.
The truth is NL may or may not happen but either way, it's going to suck. This team hasn't built anything decent since they took the project over. To think that they will make anything decent now is straight ridiculous.
No, I need someone to do their job. If you don’t want to know what’s going on with the game or the development team then that’s your perogative. I need this team to act responsible to the player base as any other successsful MMO studio does. You’ll never get this thru your head, but the players asking for communication are not the problem.
Ding ding ding
I accept the way UO has been since 1997. They never gave details. They created new things, we discovered how to use them.
The nostalgic players want a world that is not discovered, until you discover it.
People wanting everything handed to them so they can consume it in 15 mins are the exact people that complained about Millenials and Gen Z wanting everything handed to them.
The nostalgic players want a world that is not discovered, until you discover it.
People wanting everything handed to them so they can consume it in 15 mins are the exact people that complained about Millenials and Gen Z wanting everything handed to them.
This isn't 1997, and it isn't how modern business works. Sorry, you're stuck in the past. You can have things discoverable; no one is saying that the Devs need to spoon-feed everything ahead of time. However, in the current age of MMO development, the wall of silence doesn't work in a landscape of choices.
Again ok ignore communication just stop lobbying against it as it doesn't hurt you
How do we know they have been working on NL all this time. Because they told us they will make dynamic events for us to do while they work on it until it is done.
That's all the communication needed. It is not released yet. Funny how we know what they are doing but you act like you have no clue, even posting in the NL forums. Are you really that clueless? I guess you do not know some are playing NL in Alpha right now. Yall remind me of the movie, don't look up.
Again that's enough communication for YOU so shut up and quit attacking everyone else who wants more
The problem is, you would complain if they had a daily update. More is undefined. They have given us enough to let us know what they are doing, otherwise there would be no one here to already deem NL as a failure. Why? Because we have had enough communication for people to decide whether or not they like the Classic shard that they are making before it is made. That is not from a lack of communication.
See that's a BS excuse i never complain after they've communicated and what type of messiah complex do you have to feel the need to defend the poor developers
I just understand that it takes 5 people a while to make a game. It takes hundreds to thousands to make any other game now. I have no complex unless understanding reality is a complex. How does complaining here make them go faster? Or do anything positive for UO?
I see that yall never look at game credits.
I see that yall never look at game credits.
More excuses everyone knows how you feel just stop telling others what they want or need is wrong
I think the idea is intentionally to not give anyone any details on NL at this point so that when we get in, it will be a whole world of new things to discover and learn about. I’m into that.
I find all of the bickering about NL to be a waste of time but that’s me I guess.
I find all of the bickering about NL to be a waste of time but that’s me I guess.
Do we actually know what they are doing though? They apparently weren't doing very much when Mesanna was out because that was one of the reasons they gave for one of the many delays.
As I've said many times before, you shouldn't comment on things you have no clue about. Communication is a bare minimum requirement for any project team, and if you had any project experience (which clearly you do not), you would know that. Communication drives accountability. Without it, there is no reason for anyone to be in check or work towards deadlines.
I've been on plenty of different project teams in various roles so I say this with lots of experience under my belt that project teams are like toddlers / young children... if they are being perfectly quiet that's usually a cause for concern and it's time to check on them. I've seen plenty of people (myself included) have 4-8 hours worth of work to do and turn that into a week. If that goes unchecked and regular updates or check-ins aren't done that compounds over the life of the project.
The whole point of a weekly/monthly check-on on a project is to either say you haven't made progress or you have (and what you are doing next). The substance of progress (or not) isn't that important but what becomes very clear after 2 or 3 check-ins are the "No progress" updates. This tends to keep project members accountable to delivery because nobody wants to continuously say "No progress/updates" multiple times; that's a huge red flag. The longer period of time between updates, the less "no progress" updates should be given. A couple of weekly updates that are no progress aren't a huge deal but a couple of monthly ones are. That's just common sense. With NL we've gone 3 years with essentially 4 updates.
If you brought your car into the shop and the mechanic say "No updates" every week you call, how long before you start to wonder if he's even working on your car?
Here is my made up guess.
They thought they could whip out NL in a year or less. Then when they all met together they came up with the changes in mechanics they wanted to go with the Queens vision of the gameplay.
Many of the changes sounded awesome. So, let's do them all!
At that point they had too many changes to finish in a year. So, they worked on what they could get done. They have mentioned weather and armor that kept you warm in winter. They showed new menus and mechanics for crafting and resource gathering. They have mentioned spawns, regattas, quests, invasions, etc.
We have no idea of how many of those things will be in the final product.
The Pet Revamp was the same way. We were going to get saddles to ride any pet, trunks for all pets to have storage. They ran out of time and art resources for that.
The fact that they have a small team with big and bold ideas means they bit off more than they can chew.
Punish them for thinking they could do many things with NL if you must.
They thought they could whip out NL in a year or less. Then when they all met together they came up with the changes in mechanics they wanted to go with the Queens vision of the gameplay.
Many of the changes sounded awesome. So, let's do them all!
At that point they had too many changes to finish in a year. So, they worked on what they could get done. They have mentioned weather and armor that kept you warm in winter. They showed new menus and mechanics for crafting and resource gathering. They have mentioned spawns, regattas, quests, invasions, etc.
We have no idea of how many of those things will be in the final product.
The Pet Revamp was the same way. We were going to get saddles to ride any pet, trunks for all pets to have storage. They ran out of time and art resources for that.
The fact that they have a small team with big and bold ideas means they bit off more than they can chew.
Punish them for thinking they could do many things with NL if you must.
You once again miss the ENTIRE point of why people are frustrated with the current team.
They or any other game developer is going to tell you they messed up.
When I walk into a yard with pool equipment that I have never seen, I would never ask the customer how to turn it on.
Have to act like a professional in front of customers.
We all know they are working on NL, we don't need that told to us daily.
I think trying to reason with him is a dead end. I can only assume he's being intentionally obtuse to troll those he sees as “haters.”
When NL is released yall are going to say they must have done it in a week? Trying to make me believe they are not working on it is not going to happen. Kyronix is a lot more professional than anyone here.
4000 people take 3 years to make a game. 5 people take time. Diablo 4 had 9 thousand people working on it.
4000 people take 3 years to make a game. 5 people take time. Diablo 4 had 9 thousand people working on it.
And diablo ate up all the free publicity they could with communication while Mesanna couldn't be bothered even for the historical 25th anniversary
There were many articles about the 25th anniversary. What are you talking about.
And no, we had no clue about Diablo IV gameplay until Beta and when released it had a lot more stuff. That's what over 9000 people working on something can do. Thanks for confirming, more employees means more different things they can do.
If by "soon" you mean 2025 at the earliestAwful quiet in this thread.
Gonna be playing vaporware soon!
Well some are playing it in beta right now. She gave some info.If by "soon" you mean 2025 at the earliest
This beta lasting 2 months. Then another round till mid next year. Then open Beta.
So your date is not something I am gonna dispute.
My guess is now. Dec 2024. So we are close together.
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You; not going to dispute something.... Are you feeling alright?So your date is not something I am gonna dispute.
Dec 2024 was my first thought as well, but now I'm wonder if that math is going to hold up. They're running Alpha for a year, so six months for Beta feels like that's going to be short. I'm hopeful for Dec 2024 but Q1/Q2 2025 may be the more accurate timeline based on what we know.Well some are playing it in beta right now. She gave some info.
This beta lasting 2 months. Then another round till mid next year. Then open Beta.
So your date is not something I am gonna dispute.
My guess is now. Dec 2024. So we are close together.
I'm wondering how many subscribers they will lose by then simply from natural causes. Unfortunately their audience is dwindling as health issues & cost of living both increase.