I
imported_Skrag
Guest
I'm tired of your crying, so I'm calling you out. I want you to name a location in Ilshenar, so that I can run to it from Luna bank and time how long it takes.
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Bag of Sending and Ilshenar
- Thread starter Guest
- Start date
- Watchers 0
Arrrr, the island with the angels!
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
"Ilshenar has dungeons, you know. Large ones, with relatively tough spawn compared to the rest of the dungeons."
Yes, but still easy to manage getting a blue beetle in.
"Running in and out of them every five minutes is not practical."
It's also not necessary.
Yes, but still easy to manage getting a blue beetle in.
"Running in and out of them every five minutes is not practical."
It's also not necessary.
I
imported_Skrag
Guest
Roof of Umbra bank, since I don't have a Luna rune, to the Angel keep in the middle of Ilshenar. One minute, forty-two seconds.
1:42
Yeah, some of you people need to quit crying. And this was on a guy with bottom-tier karma, so even the pixies and crap were hostile.
1:42
Yeah, some of you people need to quit crying. And this was on a guy with bottom-tier karma, so even the pixies and crap were hostile.
I
imported_Coppelia
Guest
Ok you don't seem to understand.
What did I do before BoS?
As it was far before pub 26 and its boost on gold coins drop, I was still a noob not getting a lot of gold coins when BoS were already there. Of course refrain from posting elitist comment on how I'm not vet enough on official servers. I can't let you use that nostalgic biased argument of "before", because the game simply wasn't the same.
About getting in and out Ilshenar.
I'm sure you can be everywhere in 2 minutes. That's 2 minutes to get in, 5 minutes to hunt. You spend a quarter of your time running. While that may be fun for some, it's tedious. And read well. I say tedious, not difficult. And of course if you're in party it's rubbish.
Is it more difficult to hunt with the BoS?
No. Is it easier with? No. It's about comfort, once again. I'd like to know the difference of gold coins earned by hour between before and after the nerf for Connor, just to see how well the argument of "long time overdue change" it was in terms of economy.
It's nice to make me say I want the game to be easier, but it's plainly wrong. I don't have a greater dragon yet, I often hunt with my white wolves. When you're in the middle of the dungeon and you have to choose between going further for the feat without loot or recalling back to bank to get loot but start all over, there's something wrong in the game. Even Korean games are not that stupid.
I'm not decked out with artifacts, I didn't farm Doom, Melisande and co, I didn't bot for collections nor did I bought the rewards with gold coins. I went down to less than a million in order to buy stuff for house decoration, I never got 2 millions, but still it seems some people are thinking I'm earning too much gold. Yes sure. I must be too greedy.
I'm asking some comfort ingame, not a button to win UO.
If there's too much money ingame, it's another problem. But I didn't ask for pub 26 so I don't see why I should pay for it now.
What did I do before BoS?
As it was far before pub 26 and its boost on gold coins drop, I was still a noob not getting a lot of gold coins when BoS were already there. Of course refrain from posting elitist comment on how I'm not vet enough on official servers. I can't let you use that nostalgic biased argument of "before", because the game simply wasn't the same.
About getting in and out Ilshenar.
I'm sure you can be everywhere in 2 minutes. That's 2 minutes to get in, 5 minutes to hunt. You spend a quarter of your time running. While that may be fun for some, it's tedious. And read well. I say tedious, not difficult. And of course if you're in party it's rubbish.
Is it more difficult to hunt with the BoS?
No. Is it easier with? No. It's about comfort, once again. I'd like to know the difference of gold coins earned by hour between before and after the nerf for Connor, just to see how well the argument of "long time overdue change" it was in terms of economy.
It's nice to make me say I want the game to be easier, but it's plainly wrong. I don't have a greater dragon yet, I often hunt with my white wolves. When you're in the middle of the dungeon and you have to choose between going further for the feat without loot or recalling back to bank to get loot but start all over, there's something wrong in the game. Even Korean games are not that stupid.
I'm not decked out with artifacts, I didn't farm Doom, Melisande and co, I didn't bot for collections nor did I bought the rewards with gold coins. I went down to less than a million in order to buy stuff for house decoration, I never got 2 millions, but still it seems some people are thinking I'm earning too much gold. Yes sure. I must be too greedy.
I'm asking some comfort ingame, not a button to win UO.
If there's too much money ingame, it's another problem. But I didn't ask for pub 26 so I don't see why I should pay for it now.
I
imported_Skrag
Guest
So without the BoS you make more gold than you can carry in five minutes of hunting, but you're still a poor little casual player who doesn't have much money. What the hell are you doing with all this gold, eating it?
I
imported_Coppelia
Guest
I can carry 7k gold coins max if I haven't found any item, I don't have LRC so I must buy reagents, I don't hunt 24/7 so even 80k/hour it still doesn't skyrocket. I buy mostly decoration things, cloth blessing deeds and stuff like that.
Even if I'm lingering over killing mobs, having to take breaks every 10 minutes is too often. How many games force you do stop your hunting session every 10 minutes to bank your rewards?
Even if I'm lingering over killing mobs, having to take breaks every 10 minutes is too often. How many games force you do stop your hunting session every 10 minutes to bank your rewards?
D
DrMcguilicudy
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
Because Ilshenar is not meant to be a gold camp ground. It's meant to be a more advanced PvE/PvM facet, one of the advances is the inability to Mark inside Ilsh.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the point, and that's what is really sad about the bag of sending change.
If I want gold, there's a half dozen places I go to where I can rake it in easily as long as I feel like sitting there doing it. The only thing limiting my bank account is that I get bored quickly.
As a guild we'd go do the Ilsh dungeons top to bottom because it was fun and more challenging than sitting around Deceit whacking liches.
Now...there's just no point to it. Most of the folks in my guild don't have bank vaults filled to the brim with dozens of 1 mil checks. They actually need to make a little gold on the hunt to help cover insurance. Trying to do an Ilsh dungeon now is often a negative for gold...and there's just nothing you get there as a reward that makes it worth the trouble.
I also couldn't imagine keeping pack animals alive in one of those dungeons.
Last time we tried it, we actually had two people die so many times they emptied their bank and auto-renew failed on their insurance. They both lost pieces of their suites and were out of action for quite awhile trying to recover. What exactly is fun about that? We won't be back in the no-recall spots again unless the bag of sending is fixed to make it useful. And that's a shame, because they made for a fun guild outing.
I'm concerned about the whole direction the devs are going of late. They seem to be trying to fight scripting with more tedium. That ain't gonna help subscription numbers much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh please. If you have a guild fighting to farm gold, all you have to do is have someone be the runner. Talk about over dramatic.
I farm Succubi in the Dojo all the time. I stack my gold on the ground, and have one of my guildies bring a bug and scoop it up. Can't get any easier than that.
<blockquote><hr>
Because Ilshenar is not meant to be a gold camp ground. It's meant to be a more advanced PvE/PvM facet, one of the advances is the inability to Mark inside Ilsh.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the point, and that's what is really sad about the bag of sending change.
If I want gold, there's a half dozen places I go to where I can rake it in easily as long as I feel like sitting there doing it. The only thing limiting my bank account is that I get bored quickly.
As a guild we'd go do the Ilsh dungeons top to bottom because it was fun and more challenging than sitting around Deceit whacking liches.
Now...there's just no point to it. Most of the folks in my guild don't have bank vaults filled to the brim with dozens of 1 mil checks. They actually need to make a little gold on the hunt to help cover insurance. Trying to do an Ilsh dungeon now is often a negative for gold...and there's just nothing you get there as a reward that makes it worth the trouble.
I also couldn't imagine keeping pack animals alive in one of those dungeons.
Last time we tried it, we actually had two people die so many times they emptied their bank and auto-renew failed on their insurance. They both lost pieces of their suites and were out of action for quite awhile trying to recover. What exactly is fun about that? We won't be back in the no-recall spots again unless the bag of sending is fixed to make it useful. And that's a shame, because they made for a fun guild outing.
I'm concerned about the whole direction the devs are going of late. They seem to be trying to fight scripting with more tedium. That ain't gonna help subscription numbers much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh please. If you have a guild fighting to farm gold, all you have to do is have someone be the runner. Talk about over dramatic.
I farm Succubi in the Dojo all the time. I stack my gold on the ground, and have one of my guildies bring a bug and scoop it up. Can't get any easier than that.
<blockquote><hr>
Well, I for one, like the new BoS changes...
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't, and as the mentioned vote shows, a lot of other players also not.
Simpler, but lesser annoying way could have been:
Limit the maximum single charges to 10 and the maximum to saturation charges to 100.
As bags of sending are now, they are practically rendered worthless for the time you need to invest to get them and their charges.
*Salute*
Olahorand
Well, I for one, like the new BoS changes...
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't, and as the mentioned vote shows, a lot of other players also not.
Simpler, but lesser annoying way could have been:
Limit the maximum single charges to 10 and the maximum to saturation charges to 100.
As bags of sending are now, they are practically rendered worthless for the time you need to invest to get them and their charges.
*Salute*
Olahorand
Basara
UO Forum Moderator
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UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
You know, you all can go on and on about the gold, but the real people being hurt are the crafters.
Lets see...
Ignoring gold, just taking leather (and bones, if applicable).
2 minutes to get to site.
6 minutes till being so full of leather that one will have movement problems if cursed (make this 3 minutes in Fel). Note that 1 full load of leather is typically only good for 3-4 leather BODs of the appropriate type.
Prior to BOS change
Leather gatherer could stay on site for an hour, with 58 minutes (barring deaths) of gathering. Other activities (talking to people there, or over guild/alliance/party) would probably reduce this effective time to 48 minutes, or 8 loads (about 3200 leather). That's about enough leather for 2 6-part LBODs. Plus, could pile gold to side, and send if there's a lull in the fighting (if no one grabs it). Typically, one would need to send gold about 1 time every two loads of leather.
Fel hunters could probably manage about 6000 an hour, if they (extremely unlikely) do not attract the attention of PKs (I think the only dungeon in Fel that I've ever been in, on even a low-population shard like LA, where I wasn't PKed in 5 minutes, was Hythloth - because it's such a general pain in the arse to survive in normally, that it took the 10th anny drops to get people to go there on either facet). Avoiding PKs would probably reduce the take to 3200-4800 an hour.
After BOS change
Trammel/Ilshenar: 25% of all time in the field is spent getting to site. The round trips probably add another 4 minutes total for the venture. Now breaks down to 2+6+unload time, or a maximum 7 loads, with no gold returned. Each 15k (maybe as much as 20k if bare minimums in pack) gold returned reduces the number of loads by 1. Actually interacting with other players will probably reduce it further to about 5 loads, minus any load space lost to gold. That's a 100% reduction in gold from the hunt, and a 37.5% reduction in leather. Each 20% of gold brought back will be at a cost of another 12.5% of the leather one could bring.
Fel: Travel Time to the dungeon, and unload time (especially if one tries to unload at a house after being involved in combat), now makes up as much time as the actual gathering. Under the best of circumstances, this would result in a 40% reduction in leather if no gold brought back, just by itself. There would be another 20% reduction that would result from the time needed now to leave the dungeon to MAKE the round trips to unload. The end result is that, without BOS, hunting in Fel dungeons at any place other than the immediate entrance area, now produces about the same leather over time as STAYING IN TRAMMEL - not counting losses from PKs.
All risk, no reward.
I do not BOD farm (i.e. the types that have 7 characters per account with 0.1 tailor & smith for a bod an hour). I have 5 tailors that do 0-2 runs per day for BODs, 6 smiths - none with skills under 70. Even with that low BOD priority, half the BODs being cloth, and another 25% I just throw away (half the larges, most of the bone), I no longer have the ability to gain enough leather for my OWN use. Prior to the change, I could afford about 1000 horned and 500 barbed as a library donation every month, plus some excess ingot donations, to where I could get a talisman in about 6 months, or the Trades glasses in 9 months.
Now, I'm to the point of scavenging for leather, checking every applicable monster corpse I pass with any character to see if someone didn't skin it yet, and salvaging any leather items left on the ground.
The Runic BOD farms can afford to BUY their leather - those of us trying to CRAFT as was intended in the game are left twisting in the wind by the BOS nerf.
Lets see...
Ignoring gold, just taking leather (and bones, if applicable).
2 minutes to get to site.
6 minutes till being so full of leather that one will have movement problems if cursed (make this 3 minutes in Fel). Note that 1 full load of leather is typically only good for 3-4 leather BODs of the appropriate type.
Prior to BOS change
Leather gatherer could stay on site for an hour, with 58 minutes (barring deaths) of gathering. Other activities (talking to people there, or over guild/alliance/party) would probably reduce this effective time to 48 minutes, or 8 loads (about 3200 leather). That's about enough leather for 2 6-part LBODs. Plus, could pile gold to side, and send if there's a lull in the fighting (if no one grabs it). Typically, one would need to send gold about 1 time every two loads of leather.
Fel hunters could probably manage about 6000 an hour, if they (extremely unlikely) do not attract the attention of PKs (I think the only dungeon in Fel that I've ever been in, on even a low-population shard like LA, where I wasn't PKed in 5 minutes, was Hythloth - because it's such a general pain in the arse to survive in normally, that it took the 10th anny drops to get people to go there on either facet). Avoiding PKs would probably reduce the take to 3200-4800 an hour.
After BOS change
Trammel/Ilshenar: 25% of all time in the field is spent getting to site. The round trips probably add another 4 minutes total for the venture. Now breaks down to 2+6+unload time, or a maximum 7 loads, with no gold returned. Each 15k (maybe as much as 20k if bare minimums in pack) gold returned reduces the number of loads by 1. Actually interacting with other players will probably reduce it further to about 5 loads, minus any load space lost to gold. That's a 100% reduction in gold from the hunt, and a 37.5% reduction in leather. Each 20% of gold brought back will be at a cost of another 12.5% of the leather one could bring.
Fel: Travel Time to the dungeon, and unload time (especially if one tries to unload at a house after being involved in combat), now makes up as much time as the actual gathering. Under the best of circumstances, this would result in a 40% reduction in leather if no gold brought back, just by itself. There would be another 20% reduction that would result from the time needed now to leave the dungeon to MAKE the round trips to unload. The end result is that, without BOS, hunting in Fel dungeons at any place other than the immediate entrance area, now produces about the same leather over time as STAYING IN TRAMMEL - not counting losses from PKs.
All risk, no reward.
I do not BOD farm (i.e. the types that have 7 characters per account with 0.1 tailor & smith for a bod an hour). I have 5 tailors that do 0-2 runs per day for BODs, 6 smiths - none with skills under 70. Even with that low BOD priority, half the BODs being cloth, and another 25% I just throw away (half the larges, most of the bone), I no longer have the ability to gain enough leather for my OWN use. Prior to the change, I could afford about 1000 horned and 500 barbed as a library donation every month, plus some excess ingot donations, to where I could get a talisman in about 6 months, or the Trades glasses in 9 months.
Now, I'm to the point of scavenging for leather, checking every applicable monster corpse I pass with any character to see if someone didn't skin it yet, and salvaging any leather items left on the ground.
The Runic BOD farms can afford to BUY their leather - those of us trying to CRAFT as was intended in the game are left twisting in the wind by the BOS nerf.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
"Running in and out of them every five minutes is not practical."
It's also not necessary.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it is. I don't know how quickly you load up on gold, but I timed myself after the bag change. It takes only five minutes on average for me to need to bank.
And I actually don't have a blue beetle. Strangely...none of us have a tamer at all. If you don't have a tamer you can't play UO anymore?
"Running in and out of them every five minutes is not practical."
It's also not necessary.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it is. I don't know how quickly you load up on gold, but I timed myself after the bag change. It takes only five minutes on average for me to need to bank.
And I actually don't have a blue beetle. Strangely...none of us have a tamer at all. If you don't have a tamer you can't play UO anymore?
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
So without the BoS you make more gold than you can carry in five minutes of hunting, but you're still a poor little casual player who doesn't have much money. What the hell are you doing with all this gold, eating it?
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't have the patience to do it 24/7 like some people..but when I need it I can make a few hundred thousand in no time. Mostly...I don't use gold. I occasionally buy a better weapon or piece of armor. The rest of the time I give it away or it sits in the bank to cover insurance and tithing.
So without the BoS you make more gold than you can carry in five minutes of hunting, but you're still a poor little casual player who doesn't have much money. What the hell are you doing with all this gold, eating it?
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't have the patience to do it 24/7 like some people..but when I need it I can make a few hundred thousand in no time. Mostly...I don't use gold. I occasionally buy a better weapon or piece of armor. The rest of the time I give it away or it sits in the bank to cover insurance and tithing.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
You know, you all can go on and on about the gold, but the real people being hurt are the crafters.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah. I don't have a crafter, but I did used to gather resources for them. I don't anymore, too much hassle.
Trying to take the emotion out of this for a minute...to everyone who hated the bag of sending as it was...would it really be a bad thing to change it to a timer based restriction instead of weight?
If a character could use a bag, say, 20 times in a week...whenever in the week they want to (code exists for this already...the virtue system is based on weeks)...wouldn't that be enough to restrict "farming"? That seems to be a change that could make everyone happier instead of irritating a fair number of the players.
You know, you all can go on and on about the gold, but the real people being hurt are the crafters.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah. I don't have a crafter, but I did used to gather resources for them. I don't anymore, too much hassle.
Trying to take the emotion out of this for a minute...to everyone who hated the bag of sending as it was...would it really be a bad thing to change it to a timer based restriction instead of weight?
If a character could use a bag, say, 20 times in a week...whenever in the week they want to (code exists for this already...the virtue system is based on weeks)...wouldn't that be enough to restrict "farming"? That seems to be a change that could make everyone happier instead of irritating a fair number of the players.
I
imported_Skrag
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I can carry 7k gold coins max
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait, what? I can carry twice this, plus regs. WTF are you doing?
I can carry 7k gold coins max
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait, what? I can carry twice this, plus regs. WTF are you doing?
I
imported_revenant2
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Right now, without a bag of sending, and figuring just how much loot the average critter has on it...PVM is a joke.
Outside of a few specific exceptions, the only thing worth looting at all is resources and gold, both of which overload you very quickly. Since the bag of sending is essentially gone no one goes to PVM anywhere that you can't recall/gate. It hasn't significantly slowed down how much gold we make, every five minutes or so one of us makes a bank run...takes maybe ten to twenty seconds to recall to the bank, dump the stuff, recall back. It's just beyond irritating to have to do that and it completely excludes large areas that used to be fun to hunt in.
[/ QUOTE ]
heheheeh
I recall a time back when people went hunting Dragons and didn't take the gold due to it's weight. They just looted the lightweight gems and sold them to the vendor in town.
Back then it was different though - - people were nowhere near as rich as they are now. Nowadays, even a new player can afford a medium sized house in a few weeks, but back then you could go for a year and not have the cash for such a thing (if you could even find space to place it, but yeah, different topic).
But as for today: If the bags of sending existed when they first put Ilshnear's restricted-recall ruleset together, they might want to look at it and figure out if part of the ruleset was based upon their availability. If this was the case, they will want to note the impact.
They mighta already done this, who knows.
I can see where it could be steering people away from areas deep in Ilshnear in favor of, say, Miasmas and the legacy dungeons, and some of the posts here suggest that might be happening to an extent.
This isn't to say that the answer is to change the ruleset, but the whole situation would want to be thought about, if this is happening. There's other, non-gold-related ways to create more draw to those areas without changing the ruleset, if that's what they wanted to do. One of the troubles may have been that there was too much gold in the world, so I wouldnt be surprised if something that didn't base itself upon a gold draw was put in.
Might take some time though, those guys seem quite busy atm.
Right now, without a bag of sending, and figuring just how much loot the average critter has on it...PVM is a joke.
Outside of a few specific exceptions, the only thing worth looting at all is resources and gold, both of which overload you very quickly. Since the bag of sending is essentially gone no one goes to PVM anywhere that you can't recall/gate. It hasn't significantly slowed down how much gold we make, every five minutes or so one of us makes a bank run...takes maybe ten to twenty seconds to recall to the bank, dump the stuff, recall back. It's just beyond irritating to have to do that and it completely excludes large areas that used to be fun to hunt in.
[/ QUOTE ]
heheheeh
I recall a time back when people went hunting Dragons and didn't take the gold due to it's weight. They just looted the lightweight gems and sold them to the vendor in town.
Back then it was different though - - people were nowhere near as rich as they are now. Nowadays, even a new player can afford a medium sized house in a few weeks, but back then you could go for a year and not have the cash for such a thing (if you could even find space to place it, but yeah, different topic).
But as for today: If the bags of sending existed when they first put Ilshnear's restricted-recall ruleset together, they might want to look at it and figure out if part of the ruleset was based upon their availability. If this was the case, they will want to note the impact.
They mighta already done this, who knows.
I can see where it could be steering people away from areas deep in Ilshnear in favor of, say, Miasmas and the legacy dungeons, and some of the posts here suggest that might be happening to an extent.
This isn't to say that the answer is to change the ruleset, but the whole situation would want to be thought about, if this is happening. There's other, non-gold-related ways to create more draw to those areas without changing the ruleset, if that's what they wanted to do. One of the troubles may have been that there was too much gold in the world, so I wouldnt be surprised if something that didn't base itself upon a gold draw was put in.
Might take some time though, those guys seem quite busy atm.
I
imported_Goron
Guest
rtlfc
Did none of you play UO before Bags of Sending?
I got an idea- lets get rid of travel all together... lets make it so u can just say "goto X,Y" (x,y being coordinates) and your character teleports there instantly! Also, instead of having to actually kill the monsters for gold- lets just make them die when you get within 10 screens of them! Oh oh! and instead of having to actually spend time picking up the gold, lets just make it teleport directly to your bank!!!!! Awesome!
Did none of you play UO before Bags of Sending?
I got an idea- lets get rid of travel all together... lets make it so u can just say "goto X,Y" (x,y being coordinates) and your character teleports there instantly! Also, instead of having to actually kill the monsters for gold- lets just make them die when you get within 10 screens of them! Oh oh! and instead of having to actually spend time picking up the gold, lets just make it teleport directly to your bank!!!!! Awesome!
D
DrMcguilicudy
Guest
Gargoyles in ilsh are the best for gem farming. You can stack the gold in a pile and farm the gems. When you are all done, you can walk the pile to the gypsy camp not too far away, then go sell the gems.
I
imported_revenant2
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
You know, you all can go on and on about the gold, but the real people being hurt are the crafters.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah. I don't have a crafter, but I did used to gather resources for them. I don't anymore, too much hassle.
Trying to take the emotion out of this for a minute...to everyone who hated the bag of sending as it was...would it really be a bad thing to change it to a timer based restriction instead of weight?
If a character could use a bag, say, 20 times in a week...whenever in the week they want to (code exists for this already...the virtue system is based on weeks)...wouldn't that be enough to restrict "farming"? That seems to be a change that could make everyone happier instead of irritating a fair number of the players.
[/ QUOTE ]
It would have to be done in a way where one player cannot use multiple bags, and might even be account-bound instead of char-bound.
I'm thinking it would be a significant piece of work to code, actually.
Maybe it could work out okay this way, especially with the idea of the limit being account-bound and set at a level where a casual player will see some convenience to it (as opposed with a guy who scripts Miasmas for 8 hours straight overnight).
<blockquote><hr>
You know, you all can go on and on about the gold, but the real people being hurt are the crafters.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah. I don't have a crafter, but I did used to gather resources for them. I don't anymore, too much hassle.
Trying to take the emotion out of this for a minute...to everyone who hated the bag of sending as it was...would it really be a bad thing to change it to a timer based restriction instead of weight?
If a character could use a bag, say, 20 times in a week...whenever in the week they want to (code exists for this already...the virtue system is based on weeks)...wouldn't that be enough to restrict "farming"? That seems to be a change that could make everyone happier instead of irritating a fair number of the players.
[/ QUOTE ]
It would have to be done in a way where one player cannot use multiple bags, and might even be account-bound instead of char-bound.
I'm thinking it would be a significant piece of work to code, actually.
Maybe it could work out okay this way, especially with the idea of the limit being account-bound and set at a level where a casual player will see some convenience to it (as opposed with a guy who scripts Miasmas for 8 hours straight overnight).
I
imported_revenant2
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Also, instead of having to actually kill the monsters for gold- lets just make them die when you get within 10 screens of them! Oh oh! and instead of having to actually spend time picking up the gold, lets just make it teleport directly to your bank!!!!! Awesome!
[/ QUOTE ]
God, you reminded me of something!
Some years ago when I and a friend were preparing a private shard for release, me and my buddy implemented this thing where when you walked near monsters, they would keel over and die upon their first attack on you. It was really funny to watch, if you can picture it. It didn't stay in when the shard went live for players of course, but yeah, it was so damn funny to see that.
You walk in the room and monsters turn toward you and alert on you, and then drop dead. So anticlimactic.
Also, instead of having to actually kill the monsters for gold- lets just make them die when you get within 10 screens of them! Oh oh! and instead of having to actually spend time picking up the gold, lets just make it teleport directly to your bank!!!!! Awesome!
[/ QUOTE ]
God, you reminded me of something!
Some years ago when I and a friend were preparing a private shard for release, me and my buddy implemented this thing where when you walked near monsters, they would keel over and die upon their first attack on you. It was really funny to watch, if you can picture it. It didn't stay in when the shard went live for players of course, but yeah, it was so damn funny to see that.
You walk in the room and monsters turn toward you and alert on you, and then drop dead. So anticlimactic.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
It would have to be done in a way where one player cannot use multiple bags, and might even be account-bound instead of char-bound.
[/ QUOTE ]
That was what I said in the first place. Account based...no matter how many bags you have you can only use it X times in a week for that account.
It really shouldn't be all THAT bad to code...virtue abilities are limited per week, so that's possible. Houses are limited per account, so that's also possible.
It would have to be done in a way where one player cannot use multiple bags, and might even be account-bound instead of char-bound.
[/ QUOTE ]
That was what I said in the first place. Account based...no matter how many bags you have you can only use it X times in a week for that account.
It really shouldn't be all THAT bad to code...virtue abilities are limited per week, so that's possible. Houses are limited per account, so that's also possible.
Ok, so you are a noob. This explains some things.
No arties, no decent equipment, not using even a decent pet to HUNT with. I'm sorry but you remind me of a few other self defeatists' I've met over the years. Poor me.
Get some decent equipment, get some real hunting pets. Learn to play the game. Learn. Or don't. I dont care if you hunt with a pack of mongbats naked and drunk. But DONT come crying to the boards about it. Your fault that you don't have some decent equipment, a decent pet, or know enough about the game that you either can't make gold, or refuse too.
This is your problem. Solve it yourself. Do not expect it to be solved for you and be handed everything on a silver platter. That is exactly what I'm reading from you.
This reminds me of people who you run across while out hunting and need a rez, and get a "sorry I cant rez". If you can't rez WTF! are you doing out hunting?
I am only willing to teach if someone is willing to learn. I have very little patience for people who have a negative attitude toward everything and do absolutely NOTHING to help themself.
No arties, no decent equipment, not using even a decent pet to HUNT with. I'm sorry but you remind me of a few other self defeatists' I've met over the years. Poor me.
Get some decent equipment, get some real hunting pets. Learn to play the game. Learn. Or don't. I dont care if you hunt with a pack of mongbats naked and drunk. But DONT come crying to the boards about it. Your fault that you don't have some decent equipment, a decent pet, or know enough about the game that you either can't make gold, or refuse too.
This is your problem. Solve it yourself. Do not expect it to be solved for you and be handed everything on a silver platter. That is exactly what I'm reading from you.
This reminds me of people who you run across while out hunting and need a rez, and get a "sorry I cant rez". If you can't rez WTF! are you doing out hunting?
I am only willing to teach if someone is willing to learn. I have very little patience for people who have a negative attitude toward everything and do absolutely NOTHING to help themself.
<blockquote><hr>
And I actually don't have a blue beetle. Strangely...none of us have a tamer at all. If you don't have a tamer you can't play UO anymore?
[/ QUOTE ]
Uhhh, have someone go tame you one?
That was hard.
Jesus H. Do I really have to explain kindergarten stuff to you folks?
I think I'll go hunt a peerless in gm crafted armor with a tame bullfrog. Then after it wtfpwns me I'll complain that it's overpowered.
Solutions have been offered to those who want to learn. If you people refuse to take good sound advice then nobody will feel sorry for you. Keep on noobin it up. Instead of complaining and wanting everything handed to you, seek solutions to your problems and overcome. SHOW me where you hunt and I'll come show you how to farm it properly.
But I should'nt have too.
And coppelia, if you ever wanted to seriously better yourself, maybe you should have invested some of that gold into equipment for yourself instead of housewares. If you can't take the heat get back in the kitchen. Common sense.
And I actually don't have a blue beetle. Strangely...none of us have a tamer at all. If you don't have a tamer you can't play UO anymore?
[/ QUOTE ]
Uhhh, have someone go tame you one?
That was hard.
Jesus H. Do I really have to explain kindergarten stuff to you folks?
I think I'll go hunt a peerless in gm crafted armor with a tame bullfrog. Then after it wtfpwns me I'll complain that it's overpowered.
Solutions have been offered to those who want to learn. If you people refuse to take good sound advice then nobody will feel sorry for you. Keep on noobin it up. Instead of complaining and wanting everything handed to you, seek solutions to your problems and overcome. SHOW me where you hunt and I'll come show you how to farm it properly.
But I should'nt have too.
And coppelia, if you ever wanted to seriously better yourself, maybe you should have invested some of that gold into equipment for yourself instead of housewares. If you can't take the heat get back in the kitchen. Common sense.
I
imported_Skrag
Guest
The hate is strong in this one. I approve.
Anyway, I did a little math regarding Coppelia. The 7k gold (which is all she says she can carry) weighs 140 stones. An elven character with 100 strength can carry 390 stones maximum. That means either Coppelia is walking around with inordinately low strength, or she starts her hunts carrying a load of roughly 250 stones.
For comparison, note that my necro/warrior, with his full suit of plate, his halberd, his reagents, bandages, and night sight potions, is only checking in at around 145 stones before starting a hunt. A mage carrying assorted spellbooks and 100 of every reagent is only carrying roughly 150 stones, even if he's geared up in full plate for some strange reason.
So yeah, Coppelia, you're doing something wrong. Either you're going into battle carrying some preposterous amount of reagents that you'll never need to use up, or you're dragging around 100+ stones of random junk you'll never need at all.
Anyway, I did a little math regarding Coppelia. The 7k gold (which is all she says she can carry) weighs 140 stones. An elven character with 100 strength can carry 390 stones maximum. That means either Coppelia is walking around with inordinately low strength, or she starts her hunts carrying a load of roughly 250 stones.
For comparison, note that my necro/warrior, with his full suit of plate, his halberd, his reagents, bandages, and night sight potions, is only checking in at around 145 stones before starting a hunt. A mage carrying assorted spellbooks and 100 of every reagent is only carrying roughly 150 stones, even if he's geared up in full plate for some strange reason.
So yeah, Coppelia, you're doing something wrong. Either you're going into battle carrying some preposterous amount of reagents that you'll never need to use up, or you're dragging around 100+ stones of random junk you'll never need at all.
Not to mention you can piece together a crappy LRC suit from junk lying around.
There are just some people who refuse to learn, and change. They would sooner blame the game on everything rather than figure simple mechanics to better theirselves.
Reminds me of an old pal, who refused to make macros. Nice guy. I liked him. But ressing him every 2 minutes because he had such a hard head he would not make a simple heal self macro got old quick. Went around casting magery spells right out of the book.
This is someone whoes played for ten years too.
It's the same scenario. I refuse to help anyone too hard headed to learn and change to better their situation. Everyone needs help from time to time, but when you KNOW something to be true and someone else will not at least TRY to listen and change, its very frustrating.
I wonder wtf she is hunting with wolves....and regs.
I'm all for role play, but it sounds like to me she wants to make gold, just can't accept the fact she needs to upgrade everything, mainly her state of mind to grow as a player.
I'm done with this.
There are just some people who refuse to learn, and change. They would sooner blame the game on everything rather than figure simple mechanics to better theirselves.
Reminds me of an old pal, who refused to make macros. Nice guy. I liked him. But ressing him every 2 minutes because he had such a hard head he would not make a simple heal self macro got old quick. Went around casting magery spells right out of the book.
This is someone whoes played for ten years too.
It's the same scenario. I refuse to help anyone too hard headed to learn and change to better their situation. Everyone needs help from time to time, but when you KNOW something to be true and someone else will not at least TRY to listen and change, its very frustrating.
I wonder wtf she is hunting with wolves....and regs.
I'm all for role play, but it sounds like to me she wants to make gold, just can't accept the fact she needs to upgrade everything, mainly her state of mind to grow as a player.
I'm done with this.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
BOS I think is long since gone.
Why can't we open Ilshenar up? Just like anywhere else in the world? It is so old, none of the stuff is even fun or relevent anyway, just make us able to recall there. Big effing deal.
[/ QUOTE ]
I argee we should be able to recall.
How about a new event that lets "US" open it up.. Hell ya!!! Scream it with me..
BOS I think is long since gone.
Why can't we open Ilshenar up? Just like anywhere else in the world? It is so old, none of the stuff is even fun or relevent anyway, just make us able to recall there. Big effing deal.
[/ QUOTE ]
I argee we should be able to recall.
How about a new event that lets "US" open it up.. Hell ya!!! Scream it with me..
B
Belmarduk
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
The hate is strong in this one. I approve.
[/ QUOTE ] lol
Let the hate run freely young padawan
I ..still.. have mixed opinions about this issue.
Its good that it definatley hurts scripters.
In Ilsh it hurts a little - my good hunting spots are all obsolete now.
But to be honest I dont know what would be a better option
Greetings Belmarduk
The hate is strong in this one. I approve.
[/ QUOTE ] lol
Let the hate run freely young padawan
I ..still.. have mixed opinions about this issue.
Its good that it definatley hurts scripters.
In Ilsh it hurts a little - my good hunting spots are all obsolete now.
But to be honest I dont know what would be a better option
Greetings Belmarduk
I
imported_Coppelia
Guest
You must be right because you called me noob. Which is exactly the point of the thread.
Emptying my backpack may double the room to carry gold, it still wouldn't suffice for my noobish income when I noobishly hunt noobish mobs with my noobish pets. Has hunting become harder? no. Read again : it's not harder. As in "still easy".
It's about losing comfort and having to choose between walking around the world and farming on one spot. I just state UO lost something. But if it's ok for players to take the direction of a more and more absurd game because you believe that adding grind will save your game, then I'll simply leave the game. I'm not going to argue against people wanting UO to follow their playstyle after ten years of being open to all.
If a step back in the past is what turns you on...
Emptying my backpack may double the room to carry gold, it still wouldn't suffice for my noobish income when I noobishly hunt noobish mobs with my noobish pets. Has hunting become harder? no. Read again : it's not harder. As in "still easy".
It's about losing comfort and having to choose between walking around the world and farming on one spot. I just state UO lost something. But if it's ok for players to take the direction of a more and more absurd game because you believe that adding grind will save your game, then I'll simply leave the game. I'm not going to argue against people wanting UO to follow their playstyle after ten years of being open to all.
If a step back in the past is what turns you on...
<blockquote><hr>
The hate is strong in this one. I approve.
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL...That does sound star Warsish....too funny.
But not hate. Just frustration.
Coppelia....
Emptying out your pack is just one step. You could sit with a cu...(basically a wolf mind you).....farm for an hour...stack the gold...then come back with the pack beetle that you have in the stables. It might take you a few runs to get it all, but it's already been mentioned that you can get anywhere in ilshy within less than 2 minutes.
The only risk involved would be for some dink to come and grab your gold off the floor. You can minimize this by hiding it somewhere less obscure (think circle of transparancy) and stacking it that way. A beetle holds approx. 75K....I think its more but I've not even found the max amount it can carry. I just always make my stacks of 60K and grab those one at a time.
You don't need to be a tamer. It works on all types of templates. The only headache I see is trying to get a pack of 5 wolves down to the bottom of a dungeon without them going on walkabout. Luckily the next publish fixes that for you.
You will most likely kill stuff a lot quicker too with a better pet. Cu's and dragons are the shiznit.
And you can mount the cu and run down to the bottom of dungeons even faster.
You'll either improve or you won't. That guy who I said wouldnt make ANY macros? I finally one night got him to make some simple ones, and low and behold, we ended up Duoing a Dark Father one night. The guy every now and then would give in to some good advice, and he was better for it.
Improving your gameplay is one of the best things you can do in game to increase your enjoyment. If it's miserable for you, I'm sorry to say you've only got yourself to blame on this one.
The hate is strong in this one. I approve.
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL...That does sound star Warsish....too funny.
But not hate. Just frustration.
Coppelia....
Emptying out your pack is just one step. You could sit with a cu...(basically a wolf mind you).....farm for an hour...stack the gold...then come back with the pack beetle that you have in the stables. It might take you a few runs to get it all, but it's already been mentioned that you can get anywhere in ilshy within less than 2 minutes.
The only risk involved would be for some dink to come and grab your gold off the floor. You can minimize this by hiding it somewhere less obscure (think circle of transparancy) and stacking it that way. A beetle holds approx. 75K....I think its more but I've not even found the max amount it can carry. I just always make my stacks of 60K and grab those one at a time.
You don't need to be a tamer. It works on all types of templates. The only headache I see is trying to get a pack of 5 wolves down to the bottom of a dungeon without them going on walkabout. Luckily the next publish fixes that for you.
You will most likely kill stuff a lot quicker too with a better pet. Cu's and dragons are the shiznit.
And you can mount the cu and run down to the bottom of dungeons even faster.
You'll either improve or you won't. That guy who I said wouldnt make ANY macros? I finally one night got him to make some simple ones, and low and behold, we ended up Duoing a Dark Father one night. The guy every now and then would give in to some good advice, and he was better for it.
Improving your gameplay is one of the best things you can do in game to increase your enjoyment. If it's miserable for you, I'm sorry to say you've only got yourself to blame on this one.
I
imported_Skrag
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Emptying my backpack may double the room to carry gold, it still wouldn't suffice for my noobish income when I noobishly hunt noobish mobs with my noobish pets.
[/ QUOTE ]
You didn't even try though. You just went out to hunt with your backpack already 2/3 full and then cried when you couldn't carry a whole lot.
This sort of thing, exactly this, is why I support the bag changes. I'm sorry Coppelia, but you aren't entitled to infinite inventory space. You're not supposed to be able to go to the bottom of a dungeon, or the middle of Ilshenar, with a pack that's already mostly full, and just farm gold indefinitely.
Besides which, if you have to stop "every 10 minutes" as you put it before, then with your pack cleaned out you would only have to bank every 20 minutes. A bank run only takes a minute or two if you know what you're doing. That means that if you spent a solid two hours hunting, a whopping ten minutes would have to be spent doing something besides killing.
In pretty much any other game on the market, you'll spend more time than that just riding to and from your hunting spot, even if you never have to bank once you get there.
But that doesn't matter, does it? You're not actually interested in anything rational. You just want to whine and cry. Otherwise you would have at least TRIED taking the 100+ stones of needless crap out of your pack before crying about how you can't hold much.
Emptying my backpack may double the room to carry gold, it still wouldn't suffice for my noobish income when I noobishly hunt noobish mobs with my noobish pets.
[/ QUOTE ]
You didn't even try though. You just went out to hunt with your backpack already 2/3 full and then cried when you couldn't carry a whole lot.
This sort of thing, exactly this, is why I support the bag changes. I'm sorry Coppelia, but you aren't entitled to infinite inventory space. You're not supposed to be able to go to the bottom of a dungeon, or the middle of Ilshenar, with a pack that's already mostly full, and just farm gold indefinitely.
Besides which, if you have to stop "every 10 minutes" as you put it before, then with your pack cleaned out you would only have to bank every 20 minutes. A bank run only takes a minute or two if you know what you're doing. That means that if you spent a solid two hours hunting, a whopping ten minutes would have to be spent doing something besides killing.
In pretty much any other game on the market, you'll spend more time than that just riding to and from your hunting spot, even if you never have to bank once you get there.
But that doesn't matter, does it? You're not actually interested in anything rational. You just want to whine and cry. Otherwise you would have at least TRIED taking the 100+ stones of needless crap out of your pack before crying about how you can't hold much.
G
Guest
Guest
I can't believe some of the arguments to this thread. In each of the following scenarios none are 'insurmountable' in and of themselves, but all combined, day in day out, have really destroyed the 'fun' in hunting in this game and given UO is largely about dungeon and spawn fighting it is a huge NEGATIVE.
There are lots of places in this game where having to 'recall' or 'run' out from to bank gold is not practical.
Even in recall areas, who wants to be recalling back and forward to the bank? Yes it only takes a few seconds, but why bother? why should anyone have to continually stop hunting to have this added chore? Not all characters can recall, some characters still require recall scrolls to get around. The game is supposed to be fun. I want to go to a place and fight and loot for an hour or two with my guild and NOT have to have people leaving every 7-18k gold, depending on how much they can hold, just to make it worth the fun.
Yes running into Ilshenar from most places will take 1-2 minutes, and you say big deal. Well yes for a lot of players it IS a big deal and they now won't fight there, especially if getting into an area is difficult for the character to start with. If you run 2 mins, fight 5 mins, recall, bank, run 2 mins, fight 5 mins, recall, bank not only is it TEDIOUS, each time you run back into some of those areas you do risk getting nailed by something on the way, so the money you just banked turns into insurance. But more to the point, it is disrupting..... yes disrupting. Each time you have to recall to the bank, chances are someone will talk to you meaning you need to stop and chat or just be 'rude' and pretend you didn't see them or go to some bank where a moongate back in isn't handy requiring another recall to a gate, or just once you get out you just 'can't be bothered' running back in.
Tamers and Mages often require more than ONE pet or other summons such as ev's to hunt with, so riding a giant beetle to hold loot is NOT the answer for a lot of high end monster hunting. Not to mention when it is half full you start to get 'too fatigued to move' msg's so trying to run out of a harder dungeon or peerless collection place is impossible if you are trying to call your beetle to 'follow' you as you cannot MOVE on it if it is full. Try dragging an overladen giant beetle through the sand in the twisted weald on foot just to get your gold out. Even better just try and drag 5 packies through it. Assuming you didn't need to summon or use a pet on the character you were fighting with to start with to have those 5 packies.
There are a LOT of players in this game who do require gold, new players, returning players, players with a lot less skill when fighting. Players who die a lot to pvp or peerless etc and always struggle with having funds. Especially those who don't have much good armor etc and need to save the millions needed to fully kit out more than one character or the 800k or so to commit an 18 x 18 fully built.
People like myself who hate 'fighting' anything without 'looting' as it seems pointless to just bash bash bash for the sake of it.
Now my mage, with high str, can carry about 15k gold, assuming my pack is near empty. Two rounds of spawn in the red mage room in the citadel fills me up. I may need to do 10 rounds or more in there to get the red key needed. To kill the stuff I use summons so a beetle is NOT an option. I left 40k in there on the ground the other day while getting keys as to try and get in and out of that room, remember it auto spawns 4 of everything each time you run through, means going in and out is NOT an option and you cannot recall. Not to mention you would leave the state of the corridors going in and out a total spawn filled MESS for the next person through.
My guild mates are all new or returning players, most would be lucky to have 200k in the bank as they tend to die a lot. That 40k would of been going to them, but instead it got left behind. Before the bos change, they generally just about covered insurance and made a little bit of gold on a hunt for savings. Now they don't cover insurance with what can be taken out of some of those places. Is this fun, NO. Is this good gaming, NO.
I have millions, so for me gold isn't critical, did I make that by sending gold with a bos, no, it was made in most cases by selling items either crafted, or taken as high end loot, such as crimsons, doom arti's, ingredients, buying and selling, etc etc. On an average hunt gold sent via a bos was around 20-100k if I spent 30 mins to a couple of hours solo. If with a guild the amount collected in the same time frame would be more, but the amount would of been split between the party.
It not only nerfed looting when hunting it has also 'nerfed' doing two quests in this game and 'nerfed' those who didn't gold farm but made money selling bos's and powder. Selling a bos now is totally nerfed as who is going to pay more than 14k for a bos to send 15k to the bank. At the most you wouldn't want to be paying more than 2-5k for a bos and who is going to bother getting bos's to make that given the current bos comes with 2-9 charges on so adding the other 11-18 charges means doing the powder quest as well. You can go and kill two swoop in less than the time it takes to get to the queen than collecting bos's for resale now and make more money.
You also need to differentiate between hunting and FARMING. I would hazard a guess that most people 'hunt', that is why they play the game, to have fun hunting, either solo or in groups.
Yes, everybody 'farms' at some point, either to make money for something they really want, or to top up funds for pvp insurance etc etc. Most people do not 'farm' stuff over and over for 'funs' sake, unless they like doing repetitive stuff over and over, or in the case of the real 'farmers' are doing it to cheat, to sell gold for real life dollars.
There were MANY WAYS to stop the cheaters without impacting so negatively on the majority who don't 'farm' but actually 'hunt' for their loot, who now have had this enjoyment 'nerfed'.
There were many ways to change the bos system to achieve the desired result without totally destroying not only the use of a bos, but basically destroying the market for those selling bos's and those collecting powder.
As I said before, a little thought could have been used to get the same result of slowing down the gold raised by farming, but instead they took the easiest step and just nerfed it for the average player.
What could have been done:
# Decrease bos charges to 20.
# Make the bos & petballs unable to be recharged.
# Only allow a character to do one bos quest per day or if you wanted to be more extreme make it account based so one bos per account per day.
# Make bos's and pet balls drop fully charged as loot when completing the bos quest.
# Alter the quest that gave 100 powder as a reward and give something else as a reward, maybe some 'Solen Acid Repelant' to enable weaker chars etc an easier time to do the bos quest lol.
# Only allow one bos to be held in the backpack at any one time, once expired it would need to be removed and a new one put in.
How Would this have 'fixed' the problem.
# Firstly, anyone can get a bos for free by doing the quest. Weaker chars could go along with stronger chars to get theirs for free.
# 20 charges on both bos's and pet balls would of been plenty for 1-4 hunting outings, longer for the avg summon ball.
# The quests for powder and bos's would not of become basically useless, given the bos's are now basically useless and any reason to do them went with the bos to the nerf yard.
# Because you can only get one 'bos' in your back pack those collecting for resale on vendors would still make a healthy profit, more so than before as the price would need to go up due to not being able to 'farm' bos's. I think a reasonable price for a 20 charge bos would be around 60k, ie 3k per charge to send up to 20k per charge for those not wanting to bother getting their own bos.
# One quest per day per char, (more extreme if account based) would also make them less available on vendors due to not being able to 'farm' them unless they had multiple characters to quest with, and could be bothered to do it, and basically if they do that then they aren't out script looting are they.
# Pure gold 'farmers' (The MINORITY') would either need to get their own bos's or pay through the nose for bos's off vendors, making it less profitable for them plus they would need to work around the 'only one bos' per backpack rule as well.
The way most of the script gold farming was done was with multiple bos's held in pack with powder for recharging, at least on any I killed in fel when I came across them. I assume those gold farming in trammel were doing the same thing.
The above changes would have massively stopped that practice as while they may buy up all the bos off vendors in a shard for a while, vendors would soon get sick of doing quests one per time, and would either always be out of stock or sell upon request to players by trade. Forcing the scripters to get their own if they wished to continue.
Even if they bought 50 bos's at 20 charge per bos it would only give them 1000 'sends' which sounds a lot and is for a non cheating player who would take forever to use that many, but after one-two days they would be expired due to the 24/7 sending scripts and they would need to source another 50 bos's for the next day.
For individual characters doing one bos quest which takes 10 minutes to get the thing for free would of allowed them to hunt as they always did, and enjoy looting their kills and enjoy hunting solo or in party as they always did.
The main disadvantage would have been to the intended targets 'the farmers and scripters' NOT the average player who again ended up being the 'victim' because no one actually 'thought' the process through before implementing the changes.
There are lots of places in this game where having to 'recall' or 'run' out from to bank gold is not practical.
Even in recall areas, who wants to be recalling back and forward to the bank? Yes it only takes a few seconds, but why bother? why should anyone have to continually stop hunting to have this added chore? Not all characters can recall, some characters still require recall scrolls to get around. The game is supposed to be fun. I want to go to a place and fight and loot for an hour or two with my guild and NOT have to have people leaving every 7-18k gold, depending on how much they can hold, just to make it worth the fun.
Yes running into Ilshenar from most places will take 1-2 minutes, and you say big deal. Well yes for a lot of players it IS a big deal and they now won't fight there, especially if getting into an area is difficult for the character to start with. If you run 2 mins, fight 5 mins, recall, bank, run 2 mins, fight 5 mins, recall, bank not only is it TEDIOUS, each time you run back into some of those areas you do risk getting nailed by something on the way, so the money you just banked turns into insurance. But more to the point, it is disrupting..... yes disrupting. Each time you have to recall to the bank, chances are someone will talk to you meaning you need to stop and chat or just be 'rude' and pretend you didn't see them or go to some bank where a moongate back in isn't handy requiring another recall to a gate, or just once you get out you just 'can't be bothered' running back in.
Tamers and Mages often require more than ONE pet or other summons such as ev's to hunt with, so riding a giant beetle to hold loot is NOT the answer for a lot of high end monster hunting. Not to mention when it is half full you start to get 'too fatigued to move' msg's so trying to run out of a harder dungeon or peerless collection place is impossible if you are trying to call your beetle to 'follow' you as you cannot MOVE on it if it is full. Try dragging an overladen giant beetle through the sand in the twisted weald on foot just to get your gold out. Even better just try and drag 5 packies through it. Assuming you didn't need to summon or use a pet on the character you were fighting with to start with to have those 5 packies.
There are a LOT of players in this game who do require gold, new players, returning players, players with a lot less skill when fighting. Players who die a lot to pvp or peerless etc and always struggle with having funds. Especially those who don't have much good armor etc and need to save the millions needed to fully kit out more than one character or the 800k or so to commit an 18 x 18 fully built.
People like myself who hate 'fighting' anything without 'looting' as it seems pointless to just bash bash bash for the sake of it.
Now my mage, with high str, can carry about 15k gold, assuming my pack is near empty. Two rounds of spawn in the red mage room in the citadel fills me up. I may need to do 10 rounds or more in there to get the red key needed. To kill the stuff I use summons so a beetle is NOT an option. I left 40k in there on the ground the other day while getting keys as to try and get in and out of that room, remember it auto spawns 4 of everything each time you run through, means going in and out is NOT an option and you cannot recall. Not to mention you would leave the state of the corridors going in and out a total spawn filled MESS for the next person through.
My guild mates are all new or returning players, most would be lucky to have 200k in the bank as they tend to die a lot. That 40k would of been going to them, but instead it got left behind. Before the bos change, they generally just about covered insurance and made a little bit of gold on a hunt for savings. Now they don't cover insurance with what can be taken out of some of those places. Is this fun, NO. Is this good gaming, NO.
I have millions, so for me gold isn't critical, did I make that by sending gold with a bos, no, it was made in most cases by selling items either crafted, or taken as high end loot, such as crimsons, doom arti's, ingredients, buying and selling, etc etc. On an average hunt gold sent via a bos was around 20-100k if I spent 30 mins to a couple of hours solo. If with a guild the amount collected in the same time frame would be more, but the amount would of been split between the party.
It not only nerfed looting when hunting it has also 'nerfed' doing two quests in this game and 'nerfed' those who didn't gold farm but made money selling bos's and powder. Selling a bos now is totally nerfed as who is going to pay more than 14k for a bos to send 15k to the bank. At the most you wouldn't want to be paying more than 2-5k for a bos and who is going to bother getting bos's to make that given the current bos comes with 2-9 charges on so adding the other 11-18 charges means doing the powder quest as well. You can go and kill two swoop in less than the time it takes to get to the queen than collecting bos's for resale now and make more money.
You also need to differentiate between hunting and FARMING. I would hazard a guess that most people 'hunt', that is why they play the game, to have fun hunting, either solo or in groups.
Yes, everybody 'farms' at some point, either to make money for something they really want, or to top up funds for pvp insurance etc etc. Most people do not 'farm' stuff over and over for 'funs' sake, unless they like doing repetitive stuff over and over, or in the case of the real 'farmers' are doing it to cheat, to sell gold for real life dollars.
There were MANY WAYS to stop the cheaters without impacting so negatively on the majority who don't 'farm' but actually 'hunt' for their loot, who now have had this enjoyment 'nerfed'.
There were many ways to change the bos system to achieve the desired result without totally destroying not only the use of a bos, but basically destroying the market for those selling bos's and those collecting powder.
As I said before, a little thought could have been used to get the same result of slowing down the gold raised by farming, but instead they took the easiest step and just nerfed it for the average player.
What could have been done:
# Decrease bos charges to 20.
# Make the bos & petballs unable to be recharged.
# Only allow a character to do one bos quest per day or if you wanted to be more extreme make it account based so one bos per account per day.
# Make bos's and pet balls drop fully charged as loot when completing the bos quest.
# Alter the quest that gave 100 powder as a reward and give something else as a reward, maybe some 'Solen Acid Repelant' to enable weaker chars etc an easier time to do the bos quest lol.
# Only allow one bos to be held in the backpack at any one time, once expired it would need to be removed and a new one put in.
How Would this have 'fixed' the problem.
# Firstly, anyone can get a bos for free by doing the quest. Weaker chars could go along with stronger chars to get theirs for free.
# 20 charges on both bos's and pet balls would of been plenty for 1-4 hunting outings, longer for the avg summon ball.
# The quests for powder and bos's would not of become basically useless, given the bos's are now basically useless and any reason to do them went with the bos to the nerf yard.
# Because you can only get one 'bos' in your back pack those collecting for resale on vendors would still make a healthy profit, more so than before as the price would need to go up due to not being able to 'farm' bos's. I think a reasonable price for a 20 charge bos would be around 60k, ie 3k per charge to send up to 20k per charge for those not wanting to bother getting their own bos.
# One quest per day per char, (more extreme if account based) would also make them less available on vendors due to not being able to 'farm' them unless they had multiple characters to quest with, and could be bothered to do it, and basically if they do that then they aren't out script looting are they.
# Pure gold 'farmers' (The MINORITY') would either need to get their own bos's or pay through the nose for bos's off vendors, making it less profitable for them plus they would need to work around the 'only one bos' per backpack rule as well.
The way most of the script gold farming was done was with multiple bos's held in pack with powder for recharging, at least on any I killed in fel when I came across them. I assume those gold farming in trammel were doing the same thing.
The above changes would have massively stopped that practice as while they may buy up all the bos off vendors in a shard for a while, vendors would soon get sick of doing quests one per time, and would either always be out of stock or sell upon request to players by trade. Forcing the scripters to get their own if they wished to continue.
Even if they bought 50 bos's at 20 charge per bos it would only give them 1000 'sends' which sounds a lot and is for a non cheating player who would take forever to use that many, but after one-two days they would be expired due to the 24/7 sending scripts and they would need to source another 50 bos's for the next day.
For individual characters doing one bos quest which takes 10 minutes to get the thing for free would of allowed them to hunt as they always did, and enjoy looting their kills and enjoy hunting solo or in party as they always did.
The main disadvantage would have been to the intended targets 'the farmers and scripters' NOT the average player who again ended up being the 'victim' because no one actually 'thought' the process through before implementing the changes.
*sigh*
I like you MissEcho. I like your posts. You seem to want to help peeps from what I've seen over the years. But I'm sorry, your whining here. I know you don't want to hear about how us vets collected gold back in the day, nor do you want to hear any solutions to your problems. Well, maybe you do. What i fail to grasp, is if this is not a game stopping issue for me and 100's of others (maybe 1000's), why is it an issue for you, and Copellia, and everyone else complaining about it?
Solutions have been offered. I've done it. Conners done it. Lots of others have offered solutions. And at the risk of wasting my keyboard durability on someone who doesn't want to find solutions, I'm going to help you. Maybe you already know this, and if not, probably could have figured it out yourself if you weren't defeating yourself.
The red room. I've lived there. Take your gold everytime you kill, and go out to the table area. If you place a pile of gold there, near the little creek, you can then leave and drag it across the creek and sit it on the ground in the courtyard there. Get a bug, or haul it to the bank by recalling instantly to and from the citadel. Once you get a huge pile of gold sitting there, and are done hunting, you'll have all kinds of gold. Yes theres a risk someone could start hauling out your gold. No constantly triggering spawn, no constantly running through the red room. Yes its not as easy as BoS. But, no, it's not the end of the world.
It's a farm. Your welcome.
Not gonna feel sorry for you if you cant hit a recall macro and say bank a few times.
On a side note, I think your nuts for using a mage back there
.....I always use a swordsman or a tamer . Works better
I like you MissEcho. I like your posts. You seem to want to help peeps from what I've seen over the years. But I'm sorry, your whining here. I know you don't want to hear about how us vets collected gold back in the day, nor do you want to hear any solutions to your problems. Well, maybe you do. What i fail to grasp, is if this is not a game stopping issue for me and 100's of others (maybe 1000's), why is it an issue for you, and Copellia, and everyone else complaining about it?
Solutions have been offered. I've done it. Conners done it. Lots of others have offered solutions. And at the risk of wasting my keyboard durability on someone who doesn't want to find solutions, I'm going to help you. Maybe you already know this, and if not, probably could have figured it out yourself if you weren't defeating yourself.
The red room. I've lived there. Take your gold everytime you kill, and go out to the table area. If you place a pile of gold there, near the little creek, you can then leave and drag it across the creek and sit it on the ground in the courtyard there. Get a bug, or haul it to the bank by recalling instantly to and from the citadel. Once you get a huge pile of gold sitting there, and are done hunting, you'll have all kinds of gold. Yes theres a risk someone could start hauling out your gold. No constantly triggering spawn, no constantly running through the red room. Yes its not as easy as BoS. But, no, it's not the end of the world.
It's a farm. Your welcome.
Not gonna feel sorry for you if you cant hit a recall macro and say bank a few times.
On a side note, I think your nuts for using a mage back there
.....I always use a swordsman or a tamer . Works better
I
imported_Coppelia
Guest
You and Skrag are harrassing. You keep flaming people disagreeing with you as if the problem came from them. Do you really believe that people complain just to add post counts?
Your divinatory powers are impressive, you know all from me. I didn't try, I'm not hunting correctly, I should use a cu sidhe and hide piles of gold in a corner. Thank you for worrying about my mental state, it's fortunate you're in my back to teach me how to play.
Except that with my collection of pets I'm already efficient enough to farm gold at a better pace than 15k every 20 minutes. I'm repeating. And you know what? I make small piles of gold on the ground and come back to take them afterwards. Oh but I must be doing wrong, maybe I need advices!
What you don't get, probably because you never played like this, is that way of farming is not what I like in PvE. I know how to do it, I do it from time to time for example when I want to raise fame, but I don't do it very long because that's not my cup of tea. What I like in PvE when BoS worked, was to wander from a spot to another, in order to whack different mobs. This playstyle was valid. Now it isn't anymore, because you will repeat it again but I can't stack gold if I move. And no, there's no point in going back to town between each spot because it's almost constant moving.
So again here's my point, what I'm complaining about: what I like to do has been invalidated, letting no other possibility than farming. Farming was not fun before BoS changes, but now in addition it's more tedious because you add more travels. So it doesn't attract me more as a playstyle.
BoS nerf is a removal, not an addition, so your comparison with macros is irrelevant. I'm not refusing an addition to add comfort in the game (like macros are), an improvement, an enhancement, but on the contrary I'm refusing a removal of a comfort, something making the game more tedious. How can you say it's the same?
Now about what I'm not supposed to do and the comparison with other games. As Skrag allows me, I would like to point out that UO is the only game that doesn't reward is player for killing more mobs. Because of the suspicion you might be a bot, when you kill too many mobs you have a limit and must go back to town. It's funny because I play Lineage II, which is called a hardcore grind game, and the game encourage you to kill more mobs and helps you to stay longer on your spots. You don't have to come back to town every 10 nor 20 minutes, you can stay several hours before your consummables wear down. And the more you kill mobs the more you're rewarded. And of course to go on the spot it takes generally 5 minutes, except for one place where you need summoners or it'll take 20 minutes because it's the bottom of a dungeon (the top level of a tower in fact). Even a game which is said to be long and tedious, they didn't push the grind to stopping your hunt every 15 minutes. UO has more mindless grind than Lineage II. Congrats!
So... it's not encouraging me to improve my gameplay but to make it more stupid, by adding absurd actions to the grind. If you like farming it's cool, it works, if you're a bot no problem, but with a playstyle like mine that's not possible anymore. Too bad t was an important point for me. If UO is really only about farming in PvE, the rest of the game won't weight enough to hold me here.
BTW I suggest the removal of macros alltogether so we (you) come back to the old times when there weren't macros and still you were doing it good. It wasn't easy like now. Yeah nostalgia FTW!
Your divinatory powers are impressive, you know all from me. I didn't try, I'm not hunting correctly, I should use a cu sidhe and hide piles of gold in a corner. Thank you for worrying about my mental state, it's fortunate you're in my back to teach me how to play.
Except that with my collection of pets I'm already efficient enough to farm gold at a better pace than 15k every 20 minutes. I'm repeating. And you know what? I make small piles of gold on the ground and come back to take them afterwards. Oh but I must be doing wrong, maybe I need advices!
What you don't get, probably because you never played like this, is that way of farming is not what I like in PvE. I know how to do it, I do it from time to time for example when I want to raise fame, but I don't do it very long because that's not my cup of tea. What I like in PvE when BoS worked, was to wander from a spot to another, in order to whack different mobs. This playstyle was valid. Now it isn't anymore, because you will repeat it again but I can't stack gold if I move. And no, there's no point in going back to town between each spot because it's almost constant moving.
So again here's my point, what I'm complaining about: what I like to do has been invalidated, letting no other possibility than farming. Farming was not fun before BoS changes, but now in addition it's more tedious because you add more travels. So it doesn't attract me more as a playstyle.
BoS nerf is a removal, not an addition, so your comparison with macros is irrelevant. I'm not refusing an addition to add comfort in the game (like macros are), an improvement, an enhancement, but on the contrary I'm refusing a removal of a comfort, something making the game more tedious. How can you say it's the same?
Now about what I'm not supposed to do and the comparison with other games. As Skrag allows me, I would like to point out that UO is the only game that doesn't reward is player for killing more mobs. Because of the suspicion you might be a bot, when you kill too many mobs you have a limit and must go back to town. It's funny because I play Lineage II, which is called a hardcore grind game, and the game encourage you to kill more mobs and helps you to stay longer on your spots. You don't have to come back to town every 10 nor 20 minutes, you can stay several hours before your consummables wear down. And the more you kill mobs the more you're rewarded. And of course to go on the spot it takes generally 5 minutes, except for one place where you need summoners or it'll take 20 minutes because it's the bottom of a dungeon (the top level of a tower in fact). Even a game which is said to be long and tedious, they didn't push the grind to stopping your hunt every 15 minutes. UO has more mindless grind than Lineage II. Congrats!
So... it's not encouraging me to improve my gameplay but to make it more stupid, by adding absurd actions to the grind. If you like farming it's cool, it works, if you're a bot no problem, but with a playstyle like mine that's not possible anymore. Too bad t was an important point for me. If UO is really only about farming in PvE, the rest of the game won't weight enough to hold me here.
BTW I suggest the removal of macros alltogether so we (you) come back to the old times when there weren't macros and still you were doing it good. It wasn't easy like now. Yeah nostalgia FTW!
G
Guest
Guest
The reason it is an issue for me is not because I need gold, nor did I ever gold farm, it is because, yes as you said I help a lot of players.
My current guild consists of 2 totally new players, 2 who have played for about 7 months, another 2 who have played for a yr and half but not often due to work commitments, and another 3 who are returning from 3 yrs away and who are finding all the changes with ML etc pretty daunting.
And what I have found since the bos change is that they will not go anywhere where they cannot recall due to the change as they so desperately need the gold to get their chars sorted out and get the stuff that us 'vets' managed to get when gold was able to be sent. A few of these chars have 'left' fights when the money they have in the bank runs out for insurance purposes. Every time they make some money and then go somewhere like a peerless dungeon or fel or somewhere they cannot recall from they incur losses due to not being able to send gold so it makes the fight non productive for them.
Do I personally really care, no, I have 4 castles, a Luna shop, and probably well over 500 mil or more in gold and items. I spend very little time hunting unless with my 'newbie' guild. I spend much more of my game time helping out newbies, helping people with KR, doing my website and running player run events. What I DO care about is that when we are trying to fight they need to leave the area every 5 minutes to bank, what I DO care about is that those areas where you can make decent money such as fel, ilshenar, the peerless dungeons etc are becoming out of bounds for them as some with limited play time don't want to spend half their time running back and forward to the bank. With all my money should I just 'give' them gold. No, I don't think it is a great way to 'learn' by being hand fed gold, it takes away the need to get self reliant in fighting if you know you have someone who will always cover your costs. What I do do for my newbs is give them a great suit for whatever class of char they are, one each, and try to teach them the way to kill things to make their own money and take them places where they will 'skill' gain quicker and show them how to maximise getting their skills up while fighting rather than golem bashing ad nauseum.
And yes, I know about the 'old days' but as a few have stated, in the old days you didn't fill up after a few kills, you could recall from fel dungeons, you didn't have Ilshenar and all the non recall peerless areas, nor did you require 12 million for a mage scroll. Ev's didnt use two control spots each, you didn't have the 4 and 5 slot pets etc etc. Things have changed.
So my point was, YES, change it to slow the gp's entering the game, but change it so that the correct 'target' is affected, not those new to UO, not those who have little money, not the genuine shop owners who used to like providing a service to their shard by getting bos's and doing those quests. Don't do it by technically nerfing two quests, we hear all the time those complaining about lack of content. Don't do it by targeting the average 'normal' player who hunts for their loot.
Call it a whine or whatever, if something is detrimental to the game, and this change is in my opinion detrimental from where I am sitting and watching the people I am currently playing with trying to get a stake behind them.
The vets here are not gonna be bothered overmuch by this change, but trust me, the new players, poor players and those trying to save up for the items 'we all have' are. I don't consider it whining to offer a better solution to the basic total nerf they put in, which does the same thing only doesn't affect the newer members to UO but hits the gold 'FARMERS' and 'CHEATING SCRIPT LOOTERS' who were supposed to be the target. If I just bitched and complained about it without putting up a solution, fine call me a whiner, at least I am a whiner who can put up a solution.
As for the mage room, when I collect keys 'just for me' I use a tamer, however, I have a newbie guild and am trying to get them into peerless so I take a mage as she is better to let them fight and keep them alive, invising them when they need, curing, healing and she has Gift of Life so if for whatever reason I get nailed I can still rez if my self rezzes run out and not rely on one of my newbies to be alive or to have the skill to rez me. We also have a resident citadel stealther so while your solution may work where you are, it is unlikely it would where I am, unless we 'donate' to the stealther fund all our collected gold lol
Sue me if I tend to get passionate about seeing these newer players lose heart when getting a bit of gold into their bank seems like such an effort. When they get overweight after 2-3 monsters or have to leave money behind in some areas. When I see them trying to cast recall or sacred journey and 'fizzle fizzle fizzle' over and over before they make it, and then wait 5 mins or more for them to get back, god sometimes I have to leave to go find them as they get lost trying to find their way back
, as unlike myself they are not that familiar with the way the land is, especially in ilshenar. For those who like the bos changes then the solution I put above would be fine, odds are they 'wouldn't' bother going to get a bos every few days so they could 'send' gold and just use the methods mentioned, but for those players who do need gold it was a in my opinion a reasonable solution that achieved both what the devs wanted, but wouldn't overtly affect new and poor players or vets who wanted to put in the time getting bos's.
Personally, I think everyone should find themselves a bunch of new players or returning players and spend a month with them to have any idea of what it is actually like to be a newb again. I think then you would more appreciate the difficulties they are having.
My current guild consists of 2 totally new players, 2 who have played for about 7 months, another 2 who have played for a yr and half but not often due to work commitments, and another 3 who are returning from 3 yrs away and who are finding all the changes with ML etc pretty daunting.
And what I have found since the bos change is that they will not go anywhere where they cannot recall due to the change as they so desperately need the gold to get their chars sorted out and get the stuff that us 'vets' managed to get when gold was able to be sent. A few of these chars have 'left' fights when the money they have in the bank runs out for insurance purposes. Every time they make some money and then go somewhere like a peerless dungeon or fel or somewhere they cannot recall from they incur losses due to not being able to send gold so it makes the fight non productive for them.
Do I personally really care, no, I have 4 castles, a Luna shop, and probably well over 500 mil or more in gold and items. I spend very little time hunting unless with my 'newbie' guild. I spend much more of my game time helping out newbies, helping people with KR, doing my website and running player run events. What I DO care about is that when we are trying to fight they need to leave the area every 5 minutes to bank, what I DO care about is that those areas where you can make decent money such as fel, ilshenar, the peerless dungeons etc are becoming out of bounds for them as some with limited play time don't want to spend half their time running back and forward to the bank. With all my money should I just 'give' them gold. No, I don't think it is a great way to 'learn' by being hand fed gold, it takes away the need to get self reliant in fighting if you know you have someone who will always cover your costs. What I do do for my newbs is give them a great suit for whatever class of char they are, one each, and try to teach them the way to kill things to make their own money and take them places where they will 'skill' gain quicker and show them how to maximise getting their skills up while fighting rather than golem bashing ad nauseum.
And yes, I know about the 'old days' but as a few have stated, in the old days you didn't fill up after a few kills, you could recall from fel dungeons, you didn't have Ilshenar and all the non recall peerless areas, nor did you require 12 million for a mage scroll. Ev's didnt use two control spots each, you didn't have the 4 and 5 slot pets etc etc. Things have changed.
So my point was, YES, change it to slow the gp's entering the game, but change it so that the correct 'target' is affected, not those new to UO, not those who have little money, not the genuine shop owners who used to like providing a service to their shard by getting bos's and doing those quests. Don't do it by technically nerfing two quests, we hear all the time those complaining about lack of content. Don't do it by targeting the average 'normal' player who hunts for their loot.
Call it a whine or whatever, if something is detrimental to the game, and this change is in my opinion detrimental from where I am sitting and watching the people I am currently playing with trying to get a stake behind them.
The vets here are not gonna be bothered overmuch by this change, but trust me, the new players, poor players and those trying to save up for the items 'we all have' are. I don't consider it whining to offer a better solution to the basic total nerf they put in, which does the same thing only doesn't affect the newer members to UO but hits the gold 'FARMERS' and 'CHEATING SCRIPT LOOTERS' who were supposed to be the target. If I just bitched and complained about it without putting up a solution, fine call me a whiner, at least I am a whiner who can put up a solution.
As for the mage room, when I collect keys 'just for me' I use a tamer, however, I have a newbie guild and am trying to get them into peerless so I take a mage as she is better to let them fight and keep them alive, invising them when they need, curing, healing and she has Gift of Life so if for whatever reason I get nailed I can still rez if my self rezzes run out and not rely on one of my newbies to be alive or to have the skill to rez me. We also have a resident citadel stealther so while your solution may work where you are, it is unlikely it would where I am, unless we 'donate' to the stealther fund all our collected gold lol
Sue me if I tend to get passionate about seeing these newer players lose heart when getting a bit of gold into their bank seems like such an effort. When they get overweight after 2-3 monsters or have to leave money behind in some areas. When I see them trying to cast recall or sacred journey and 'fizzle fizzle fizzle' over and over before they make it, and then wait 5 mins or more for them to get back, god sometimes I have to leave to go find them as they get lost trying to find their way back
Personally, I think everyone should find themselves a bunch of new players or returning players and spend a month with them to have any idea of what it is actually like to be a newb again. I think then you would more appreciate the difficulties they are having.
Basara
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<blockquote><hr>
I'm tired of your crying, so I'm calling you out. I want you to name a location in Ilshenar, so that I can run to it from Luna bank and time how long it takes.
[/ QUOTE ]
OK, buddy - time this one....
The dungeon in the desert East of Compassion, Southeast of Chaos, the Poison elemental & elder Gazer room past the executioners and liches.
I used to hunt there with friends, before the BoS changes.
And, don't forget to factor in what happens if one of the executioners or spellcasting undead in the way is a paragon - which is more likely to be the case than not. Ignoring paragon spawn is typically NOT an option in a dungeon, the way it is overland.
I'm tired of your crying, so I'm calling you out. I want you to name a location in Ilshenar, so that I can run to it from Luna bank and time how long it takes.
[/ QUOTE ]
OK, buddy - time this one....
The dungeon in the desert East of Compassion, Southeast of Chaos, the Poison elemental & elder Gazer room past the executioners and liches.
I used to hunt there with friends, before the BoS changes.
And, don't forget to factor in what happens if one of the executioners or spellcasting undead in the way is a paragon - which is more likely to be the case than not. Ignoring paragon spawn is typically NOT an option in a dungeon, the way it is overland.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Speaking to the dev team...are you guys ever going to address the fact that the bag of sending change rendered the Ilshenar dungeons and Terathan Keep pointless?
I'm already tired of our guild hunts being tied to locations where we can hop a quick gate to the bank every couple of minutes.
[/ QUOTE ]
I quit hunting alone in Ilsh when the paragons were born, and with the nerf of BOS I see no reason to hunt in dungeons there that I cannot recall in and out of. If you after high fame and gold try the Tokuno islands, my favor place since the Destard changes is the Fan dancer dojo. My tamer hunts there now all the time. If you after spined leather and loose changes go for the lizmen in Despise. My pally goes there to train skills and get the anti-virtue arties.
Speaking to the dev team...are you guys ever going to address the fact that the bag of sending change rendered the Ilshenar dungeons and Terathan Keep pointless?
I'm already tired of our guild hunts being tied to locations where we can hop a quick gate to the bank every couple of minutes.
[/ QUOTE ]
I quit hunting alone in Ilsh when the paragons were born, and with the nerf of BOS I see no reason to hunt in dungeons there that I cannot recall in and out of. If you after high fame and gold try the Tokuno islands, my favor place since the Destard changes is the Fan dancer dojo. My tamer hunts there now all the time. If you after spined leather and loose changes go for the lizmen in Despise. My pally goes there to train skills and get the anti-virtue arties.
I
imported_Skrag
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
The dungeon in the desert East of Compassion, Southeast of Chaos, the Poison elemental & elder Gazer room past the executioners and liches.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having not been to this dungeon more than once or twice, the longest part of this particular time trial was locating the room I was supposed to be timing the run from. After locating it, I did a trial run just to learn the path.
I opened the door to the elder gazer room, ran in real fast, and with it and a lich lord casting on me, I hit the start button on my stopwatch and took off running. When I hit the middle of Luna bank, I clicked the watch again.
1:59:53
Or about half a second under two minutes. Given practice at running this course, like say if I actually hunted there, I imagine I could easily work this time down a few more seconds.
So yeah, even when some smartypants picks the most remote back end of the most remote dungeon in Ilshenar, it's a two minute run. I repeat, you crybabies are pathetic. Even if I took a wrong turn, or had to stop and kill a paragon, what? Three minutes? LOL.
The dungeon in the desert East of Compassion, Southeast of Chaos, the Poison elemental & elder Gazer room past the executioners and liches.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having not been to this dungeon more than once or twice, the longest part of this particular time trial was locating the room I was supposed to be timing the run from. After locating it, I did a trial run just to learn the path.
I opened the door to the elder gazer room, ran in real fast, and with it and a lich lord casting on me, I hit the start button on my stopwatch and took off running. When I hit the middle of Luna bank, I clicked the watch again.
1:59:53
Or about half a second under two minutes. Given practice at running this course, like say if I actually hunted there, I imagine I could easily work this time down a few more seconds.
So yeah, even when some smartypants picks the most remote back end of the most remote dungeon in Ilshenar, it's a two minute run. I repeat, you crybabies are pathetic. Even if I took a wrong turn, or had to stop and kill a paragon, what? Three minutes? LOL.
I
imported_Goron
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Personally, I think everyone should find themselves a bunch of new players or returning players and spend a month with them to have any idea of what it is actually like to be a newb again. I think then you would more appreciate the difficulties they are having.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok. How about my personal experience as a noob again. I restarted UO 9 months ago after several years off. I started on Siege (Important to note, since there is not even recall). I started with nothing. No gold, no houses, no skills. One month later I was living out of an 18x18 with half a mil in the bank.
I did not use a single BoS charge. And guess what- it was not difficult at all.
I actually transported ~20,000 hides from a temporary small house on ice island to the bank during that time too, without a single bag of sending.
--
I am sorry guys, but stigmatas is right. You are just whining because you are too lazy to earn your own gold. Go read my post on the previous page- why don't you just ask the GMs to implement a feature where monsters die when you get within 100 screens of them and all their gold is instantly transportd to your bank! That way you dont even need to waste time killing them!
Good god- are you people really that lazy that you feel you deserve an instant gold deposit method? BoSs were only good for farming, and here you are claiming it hurts casual hunts? If it is a casual hunt then what is the rush to get as much gold in the bank as possible? When I run hunts (champs, peerless, doom) we don't even take the gold!
<blockquote><hr>
Do I personally really care, no, I have 4 castles, a Luna shop, and probably well over 500 mil or more in gold and items. I spend very little time hunting unless with my 'newbie' guild. I spend much more of my game time helping out newbies, helping people with KR, doing my website and running player run events.
[/ QUOTE ]great... so then stop complaining. Youa re NOT a noob, you cannot claim to know what it is like to nto have BoSs.
<blockquote><hr>
What I DO care about is that when we are trying to fight they need to leave the area every 5 minutes to bank,
[/ QUOTE ]Why? Just stack the gold up, then transport it later in a packy, after the fighting is done. <blockquote><hr>
what I DO care about is that those areas where you can make decent money such as fel, ilshenar, the peerless dungeons etc are becoming out of bounds for them as some with limited play time don't want to spend half their time running back and forward to the bank.
[/ QUOTE ]Again, stack gold, get packy, deliver in fewer trips. simple. <blockquote><hr>
With all my money should I just 'give' them gold. No, I don't think it is a great way to 'learn' by being hand fed gold,
[/ QUOTE ]Well, thats what a BoS does, it gives a free, instant, safe trip to the bank. <blockquote><hr>
it takes away the need to get self reliant in fighting if you know you have someone who will always cover your costs.
[/ QUOTE ]I agree, BoSs do take away the need to be- wait, what? you are not talking abotu bag of sendings? oh... Well, BoSs do exactly that too. take away the need to be self reliant- the BoS cover's your cost of time, effort, and safety.
Personally, I think everyone should find themselves a bunch of new players or returning players and spend a month with them to have any idea of what it is actually like to be a newb again. I think then you would more appreciate the difficulties they are having.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok. How about my personal experience as a noob again. I restarted UO 9 months ago after several years off. I started on Siege (Important to note, since there is not even recall). I started with nothing. No gold, no houses, no skills. One month later I was living out of an 18x18 with half a mil in the bank.
I did not use a single BoS charge. And guess what- it was not difficult at all.
I actually transported ~20,000 hides from a temporary small house on ice island to the bank during that time too, without a single bag of sending.
--
I am sorry guys, but stigmatas is right. You are just whining because you are too lazy to earn your own gold. Go read my post on the previous page- why don't you just ask the GMs to implement a feature where monsters die when you get within 100 screens of them and all their gold is instantly transportd to your bank! That way you dont even need to waste time killing them!
Good god- are you people really that lazy that you feel you deserve an instant gold deposit method? BoSs were only good for farming, and here you are claiming it hurts casual hunts? If it is a casual hunt then what is the rush to get as much gold in the bank as possible? When I run hunts (champs, peerless, doom) we don't even take the gold!
<blockquote><hr>
Do I personally really care, no, I have 4 castles, a Luna shop, and probably well over 500 mil or more in gold and items. I spend very little time hunting unless with my 'newbie' guild. I spend much more of my game time helping out newbies, helping people with KR, doing my website and running player run events.
[/ QUOTE ]great... so then stop complaining. Youa re NOT a noob, you cannot claim to know what it is like to nto have BoSs.
<blockquote><hr>
What I DO care about is that when we are trying to fight they need to leave the area every 5 minutes to bank,
[/ QUOTE ]Why? Just stack the gold up, then transport it later in a packy, after the fighting is done. <blockquote><hr>
what I DO care about is that those areas where you can make decent money such as fel, ilshenar, the peerless dungeons etc are becoming out of bounds for them as some with limited play time don't want to spend half their time running back and forward to the bank.
[/ QUOTE ]Again, stack gold, get packy, deliver in fewer trips. simple. <blockquote><hr>
With all my money should I just 'give' them gold. No, I don't think it is a great way to 'learn' by being hand fed gold,
[/ QUOTE ]Well, thats what a BoS does, it gives a free, instant, safe trip to the bank. <blockquote><hr>
it takes away the need to get self reliant in fighting if you know you have someone who will always cover your costs.
[/ QUOTE ]I agree, BoSs do take away the need to be- wait, what? you are not talking abotu bag of sendings? oh... Well, BoSs do exactly that too. take away the need to be self reliant- the BoS cover's your cost of time, effort, and safety.
T
themaster879
Guest
They should just make it where you can mark runes in Ilsh. There problem solved with the BoS changes. :/
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
They should just make it where you can mark runes in Ilsh. There problem solved with the BoS changes. :/
[/ QUOTE ]
That's exactly what they SHOULDN'T do.
They should just make it where you can mark runes in Ilsh. There problem solved with the BoS changes. :/
[/ QUOTE ]
That's exactly what they SHOULDN'T do.
<blockquote><hr>
They should just make it where you can mark runes in Ilsh. There problem solved with the BoS changes. :/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's exactly what they SHOULDN'T do.
[/ QUOTE ]
/signed
For those that may NOT know...Connor and Stig, myself, and some others, have spent many an hour hunting together. We, as a group, and individually, learned to overcome some significant, and often considered, by others, show-stopping challenges.
BoS can be a huge inconvenience...especially if one is used to the convenience.
But think about it. Many very viable solutions have been offered...those opposed want nothing to do with the "How Can I?" attitudes, that are required, when solutions are required. Or, as in Cppelia's case, they just don't want to pile gold up, or find the one thing that piling WON'T immediately solve (moving from MoB to MoB.
I am not interested in ALL the reasons something WON'T work.
Just give me ONE good way that somehting WILL work.
That is how progress is made, IMO.
I am betting thyat a solution COULD be found, to accomodate moving MoB to MoB, and still getting every GP that was looted out, with very little effort.
I make oodles of gold in Illsh, and other non-recall areas...there is no reason anyone else can't do this, as well, if they think "How Can I?"
Burn your bridges. BoS doesn't work like it used to.
Find viable ways to have fun, get the gold to the bank, and not do it every 3-5 minutes.
There are plenty of them...there really are.
Particularly, and in many cases, ONLY if you REALLY want to find them...
They should just make it where you can mark runes in Ilsh. There problem solved with the BoS changes. :/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's exactly what they SHOULDN'T do.
[/ QUOTE ]
/signed
For those that may NOT know...Connor and Stig, myself, and some others, have spent many an hour hunting together. We, as a group, and individually, learned to overcome some significant, and often considered, by others, show-stopping challenges.
BoS can be a huge inconvenience...especially if one is used to the convenience.
But think about it. Many very viable solutions have been offered...those opposed want nothing to do with the "How Can I?" attitudes, that are required, when solutions are required. Or, as in Cppelia's case, they just don't want to pile gold up, or find the one thing that piling WON'T immediately solve (moving from MoB to MoB.
I am not interested in ALL the reasons something WON'T work.
Just give me ONE good way that somehting WILL work.
That is how progress is made, IMO.
I am betting thyat a solution COULD be found, to accomodate moving MoB to MoB, and still getting every GP that was looted out, with very little effort.
I make oodles of gold in Illsh, and other non-recall areas...there is no reason anyone else can't do this, as well, if they think "How Can I?"
Burn your bridges. BoS doesn't work like it used to.
Find viable ways to have fun, get the gold to the bank, and not do it every 3-5 minutes.
There are plenty of them...there really are.
Particularly, and in many cases, ONLY if you REALLY want to find them...
I
imported_Coppelia
Guest
I won't reply to the insults.
<blockquote><hr>
But think about it. Many very viable solutions have been offered...those opposed want nothing to do with the "How Can I?" attitudes, that are required, when solutions are required. Or, as in Cppelia's case, they just don't want to pile gold up, or find the one thing that piling WON'T immediately solve (moving from MoB to MoB).
[/ QUOTE ]
I do pile up gold...
Shall I quote myself?
I'm not looking for solutions because I simply know them. Do you really think I need the PvE Gods trio to teach me how to play? When I'll want to kill a paragon superdragon I'll call you. Here, this is not a problem of difficulty, but a problem of convenience, comfort, to make the game pleasant.
You would tell me "Yes it's a bit less convenient, but it helped against bots/bad economy/whatever", it would be ok, as long as you prove it's efficient. But stop telling me how to play. Those changes are making gold farming less convenient, but we perfectly know it's still possible. So it's simply less fun. And for the example going from mob to mob, it may be a twisted example for you because you don't play like that, but that's something I always liked in UO. And when I'm strolling around the dungeons, I appreciated not having to care about what to do with my loot.
The time spent diving in the loot was already rythm breaking enough and tedious (the time the properties appear, to see that the 40% is fire damage and not damage increase...), adding the need to recall in and out is a bore. But maybe you will tell me what it brings to have to regularily bring gold back to bank instead of continuing the hunt.
<blockquote><hr>
But think about it. Many very viable solutions have been offered...those opposed want nothing to do with the "How Can I?" attitudes, that are required, when solutions are required. Or, as in Cppelia's case, they just don't want to pile gold up, or find the one thing that piling WON'T immediately solve (moving from MoB to MoB).
[/ QUOTE ]
I do pile up gold...
Shall I quote myself?
I'm not looking for solutions because I simply know them. Do you really think I need the PvE Gods trio to teach me how to play? When I'll want to kill a paragon superdragon I'll call you. Here, this is not a problem of difficulty, but a problem of convenience, comfort, to make the game pleasant.
You would tell me "Yes it's a bit less convenient, but it helped against bots/bad economy/whatever", it would be ok, as long as you prove it's efficient. But stop telling me how to play. Those changes are making gold farming less convenient, but we perfectly know it's still possible. So it's simply less fun. And for the example going from mob to mob, it may be a twisted example for you because you don't play like that, but that's something I always liked in UO. And when I'm strolling around the dungeons, I appreciated not having to care about what to do with my loot.
The time spent diving in the loot was already rythm breaking enough and tedious (the time the properties appear, to see that the 40% is fire damage and not damage increase...), adding the need to recall in and out is a bore. But maybe you will tell me what it brings to have to regularily bring gold back to bank instead of continuing the hunt.
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
"maybe you will tell me what it brings to have to regularily bring gold back to bank instead of continuing the hunt. "
It brings fewer farmers and scripters, and more value to the GP.
It brings fewer farmers and scripters, and more value to the GP.
Basara
UO Forum Moderator
Moderator
Professional
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Any more BS while you're at it?
It takes 2 minutes to get to the ENTRANCE, minmum. There are spawn considerations to consider even for a dexxer like me (one does NOT ignore a paragon Efreet, and there seems to be one in the desert more often than not, and since that place is practically a maze, you pretty much end up fighting every hostile paragon you encounter) - getting a PET there is a nightmare, unless you travel at less than a steady walk, since they like chasing things. Thank God I don't play a tamer - when we hunted there, I typically beat the tamers there (the entrance, NOT the room inside) by 3-5 minutes, since they were constantly having to reel in their pets.
Here's my times TO ENTRANCE - a bit more truthful than yours. Test was done mounted on a swampy.
Attempt #1: Attacked by paragon efreet - couldn't outrun in desert, required fight (that a mummy, 2 scorpions and 3 ratmen dogpiled on): 4 minutes, 30 seconds. Also attacked by paragon skeleton at bridge but outran it.
Attempt #2: No interference from creatures; ran entire way from Luna bank to dungeon ENTRANCE: 2 minutes, 3 seconds. No way in HELL you made it through that plus 90% of the dungeon in under 2 minutes.
Time from entrance to room: 1 minute, 5 seconds, at a full run.
Your "time from Luna Bank to that dungeon room" has been weighed in the balance, and found to be total BS.
You need to be a bit more judicious when you pull numbers out of thin air to support your ridiculous claims. That, or learn the difference between a 1 & a 2 (if you want to admit that you misread your timer, and that it was actually 2:59:53, I'll apologize for suggesting you made your numbers up out of thin air). But, I doubt you will, because doing so means admitting that your earlier assertion was dead wrong, and admitting your errors isn't your style.
It takes 2 minutes to get to the ENTRANCE, minmum. There are spawn considerations to consider even for a dexxer like me (one does NOT ignore a paragon Efreet, and there seems to be one in the desert more often than not, and since that place is practically a maze, you pretty much end up fighting every hostile paragon you encounter) - getting a PET there is a nightmare, unless you travel at less than a steady walk, since they like chasing things. Thank God I don't play a tamer - when we hunted there, I typically beat the tamers there (the entrance, NOT the room inside) by 3-5 minutes, since they were constantly having to reel in their pets.
Here's my times TO ENTRANCE - a bit more truthful than yours. Test was done mounted on a swampy.
Attempt #1: Attacked by paragon efreet - couldn't outrun in desert, required fight (that a mummy, 2 scorpions and 3 ratmen dogpiled on): 4 minutes, 30 seconds. Also attacked by paragon skeleton at bridge but outran it.
Attempt #2: No interference from creatures; ran entire way from Luna bank to dungeon ENTRANCE: 2 minutes, 3 seconds. No way in HELL you made it through that plus 90% of the dungeon in under 2 minutes.
Time from entrance to room: 1 minute, 5 seconds, at a full run.
Your "time from Luna Bank to that dungeon room" has been weighed in the balance, and found to be total BS.
You need to be a bit more judicious when you pull numbers out of thin air to support your ridiculous claims. That, or learn the difference between a 1 & a 2 (if you want to admit that you misread your timer, and that it was actually 2:59:53, I'll apologize for suggesting you made your numbers up out of thin air). But, I doubt you will, because doing so means admitting that your earlier assertion was dead wrong, and admitting your errors isn't your style.
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
I'm tired of your crying, so I'm calling you out. I want you to name a location in Ilshenar, so that I can run to it from Luna bank and time how long it takes.
[/ QUOTE ]
OK, buddy - time this one....
The dungeon in the desert East of Compassion, Southeast of Chaos, the Poison elemental & elder Gazer room past the executioners and liches.
I used to hunt there with friends, before the BoS changes.
And, don't forget to factor in what happens if one of the executioners or spellcasting undead in the way is a paragon - which is more likely to be the case than not. Ignoring paragon spawn is typically NOT an option in a dungeon, the way it is overland.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's called the Rock dungeon
Less than two minutes
Paragon LL farming 4tw!
<blockquote><hr>
I'm tired of your crying, so I'm calling you out. I want you to name a location in Ilshenar, so that I can run to it from Luna bank and time how long it takes.
[/ QUOTE ]
OK, buddy - time this one....
The dungeon in the desert East of Compassion, Southeast of Chaos, the Poison elemental & elder Gazer room past the executioners and liches.
I used to hunt there with friends, before the BoS changes.
And, don't forget to factor in what happens if one of the executioners or spellcasting undead in the way is a paragon - which is more likely to be the case than not. Ignoring paragon spawn is typically NOT an option in a dungeon, the way it is overland.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's called the Rock dungeon
Less than two minutes
Paragon LL farming 4tw!
<blockquote><hr>
With all my money should I just 'give' them gold. No, I don't think it is a great way to 'learn' by being hand fed gold,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, thats what a BoS does, it gives a free, instant, safe trip to the bank.
[/ QUOTE ]
I caught that too.
Zinger.
With all my money should I just 'give' them gold. No, I don't think it is a great way to 'learn' by being hand fed gold,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, thats what a BoS does, it gives a free, instant, safe trip to the bank.
[/ QUOTE ]
I caught that too.
Zinger.
G
Guest
Guest
Replying to you for convenience.
I guess most of you fail to actually see my point.
The point was why should 'anyone' be inconvenienced. Just because it is not your playstyle, just because you like the hassle of recalling back and forth, just because some of you can 'run' the Ilshenar map in under 2 mins, so what?
I can do all that too. Big deal.
I am not a newb, I rarely hunt for anything but fame and honor and items. What bugs me about the bos change 'personally' is when I go to kill stuff I actually 'liked' to loot, it made killing stuff more enjoyable to see how much you could get in a session, be it items, resources or gold. To me it was one of the 'enjoyable' parts of hunting. Now I don't bother as my time in game for hunting is limited as I am busy doing 'other' UO related things, so if my 'main' purpose to go hunting was maintaining honor or fame that is all I bother to do now. For me, personally, it has just made an activity less enjoyable than it used to be and anything that makes stuff 'less' enjoyable for me or anyone else is a detrimental effect to put into a game that already has so many disenchanted people and subscription losses.
The point was this bos changed did a few things:
# Nerfed the point of doing the bos quests.
# Nerfed the point of doing the powder quests.
# Nerfed two items that a lot of newbies and vendor owners used to make a bit of money by selling bos's and powder. In fact, these two items were probably the ONLY two items worth going out to actually 'hunt' for that would always sell and always make a steady profit for new players who don't have massive amounts of artis and powerscrolls to sell.
# Nerfed a genuine new players ability to stand and train skills and get gold and send it to the bank when overweight forcing them to run back and forth or recall/SJ just to get a bit of gold together. Just adding to the 'grind' of getting gold.
# Nerfed 'some' peoples enjoyment of hunting in hard to get to places or just how they liked to hunt, forcing them to come and go whether that suited them or not.
(Whether you personally agree with this or whether this suits YOUR playstyle so YOU don't see a problem with it is beside the point. Not everyone likes the hassle of going backwards and forwards to bank, whether by recall or running, or worrying when they are hunting about weight. Yes you can pile the money up but you still then need to get something to carry it back in later, not everyone can be bothered to go back and get beetles and packies, and a LOT of the time they are not suitable for having along if you are a tamer or mage or anyone who uses pet slots to fight).
None of you have even addressed the fact that it wasn't just 'gold' sending that was affected by this change, no one mentions those who did the quests as part of their enjoyment, no one mentions the fact that vendor houses had a large part of their income removed
The whole point was why nerf anything? Why aggravate some people and take away from their enjoyment of the game?
They bought in this change NOT because anyone complained about it, NOT because it was causing any unbalance to the game or to anyone, NOT because there was anything broken or wrong with it.
They stated quite clearly that the reason was to reduce the amount of gold that had been flooding the system for years.
The reason this was the case had NOTHING to do with the bos itself, the reason was the illegal third party program script looters using the bos and powder to stand, kill, loot and send copious amounts of gps daily 24/7 to the bank, the resource gatherers scripting resources or making items and selling to npcs for no risk just free gps generated. The duping of items to sell to npcs, etc. These things are what have been complained about for YEARS, these are the things that have generated the massive influx of gold to the game. These are the things that caused probably 80-90% of the massive gold influx, this and the ever increasing amounts of gold that spawn on creatures. These automated bots of which there were many had probably been generating more gold per day on all shards than the amount of gold the total player base on any shard was making via legitmate hunting.
Could they have addressed these issues by doing something different. YES my first post gave a 'possible' solution that would NOT have nerfed those things above, would have achieved the same result, and would NOT have inconvenienced anyone.
Just because some of you 'like' the change, it does NOT mean anyone who doesn't is a cry baby or wants something for nothing, or wants to have things 'easy'. Some of us just don't like 'grind', some of us may only have limited time to play, some of us liked doing those quests and made a nice profit on the sale of bos and powder.
If you like the way it is now, fine, I don't have a problem if you wish to recall in and out, and drag beetles and packies along, or pile your gold on the ground. What you do is up to you.
However, why you need to denigrate anyone who's game style is different to yours I have no idea by calling them whiners, lazy or crybabies or whatever. Why because YOU like it you assume that it is the ONLY way they could of fixed it I have no idea. I guarantee you if you did an in game poll on this issue you would find the large majority of players would opt in an instant to have the bos back and made a useful item again.
I have not spoken to one person on my shard who actually 'likes' the change. I am sure there are some, they are just not the MAJORITY. Sure we are all living with it, we had no choice, sure there are ways around it, we are not stupid, we know how we can do it differently, we make the compromises to our play style, please don't assume people are 'morons' or need to be patronized because they don't like the change and you do.
I am probably one of the people LEAST affected by this change. Will it have an impact on my ability to earn, no, I make plenty by running my shop, crafting, doing peerless etc etc. But just because it won't affect me in any overtly negative way does that mean I should sit back and not debate the issue when I see something introduced that a lot of players don't like, that nerfs various parts of the game for others, that was an 'easy out' rather than a thoughtful adjustment to how the bos etc operated? No. I love UO and as such if I think something could of been better implemented I will say so.
Is it the end of the world? NO.
Is it just another thing that the majority of players are unhappy about? YES.
Is that good for the overall state of UO? NO.
Was it necessary? NO
I guess most of you fail to actually see my point.
The point was why should 'anyone' be inconvenienced. Just because it is not your playstyle, just because you like the hassle of recalling back and forth, just because some of you can 'run' the Ilshenar map in under 2 mins, so what?
I can do all that too. Big deal.
I am not a newb, I rarely hunt for anything but fame and honor and items. What bugs me about the bos change 'personally' is when I go to kill stuff I actually 'liked' to loot, it made killing stuff more enjoyable to see how much you could get in a session, be it items, resources or gold. To me it was one of the 'enjoyable' parts of hunting. Now I don't bother as my time in game for hunting is limited as I am busy doing 'other' UO related things, so if my 'main' purpose to go hunting was maintaining honor or fame that is all I bother to do now. For me, personally, it has just made an activity less enjoyable than it used to be and anything that makes stuff 'less' enjoyable for me or anyone else is a detrimental effect to put into a game that already has so many disenchanted people and subscription losses.
The point was this bos changed did a few things:
# Nerfed the point of doing the bos quests.
# Nerfed the point of doing the powder quests.
# Nerfed two items that a lot of newbies and vendor owners used to make a bit of money by selling bos's and powder. In fact, these two items were probably the ONLY two items worth going out to actually 'hunt' for that would always sell and always make a steady profit for new players who don't have massive amounts of artis and powerscrolls to sell.
# Nerfed a genuine new players ability to stand and train skills and get gold and send it to the bank when overweight forcing them to run back and forth or recall/SJ just to get a bit of gold together. Just adding to the 'grind' of getting gold.
# Nerfed 'some' peoples enjoyment of hunting in hard to get to places or just how they liked to hunt, forcing them to come and go whether that suited them or not.
(Whether you personally agree with this or whether this suits YOUR playstyle so YOU don't see a problem with it is beside the point. Not everyone likes the hassle of going backwards and forwards to bank, whether by recall or running, or worrying when they are hunting about weight. Yes you can pile the money up but you still then need to get something to carry it back in later, not everyone can be bothered to go back and get beetles and packies, and a LOT of the time they are not suitable for having along if you are a tamer or mage or anyone who uses pet slots to fight).
None of you have even addressed the fact that it wasn't just 'gold' sending that was affected by this change, no one mentions those who did the quests as part of their enjoyment, no one mentions the fact that vendor houses had a large part of their income removed
The whole point was why nerf anything? Why aggravate some people and take away from their enjoyment of the game?
They bought in this change NOT because anyone complained about it, NOT because it was causing any unbalance to the game or to anyone, NOT because there was anything broken or wrong with it.
They stated quite clearly that the reason was to reduce the amount of gold that had been flooding the system for years.
The reason this was the case had NOTHING to do with the bos itself, the reason was the illegal third party program script looters using the bos and powder to stand, kill, loot and send copious amounts of gps daily 24/7 to the bank, the resource gatherers scripting resources or making items and selling to npcs for no risk just free gps generated. The duping of items to sell to npcs, etc. These things are what have been complained about for YEARS, these are the things that have generated the massive influx of gold to the game. These are the things that caused probably 80-90% of the massive gold influx, this and the ever increasing amounts of gold that spawn on creatures. These automated bots of which there were many had probably been generating more gold per day on all shards than the amount of gold the total player base on any shard was making via legitmate hunting.
Could they have addressed these issues by doing something different. YES my first post gave a 'possible' solution that would NOT have nerfed those things above, would have achieved the same result, and would NOT have inconvenienced anyone.
Just because some of you 'like' the change, it does NOT mean anyone who doesn't is a cry baby or wants something for nothing, or wants to have things 'easy'. Some of us just don't like 'grind', some of us may only have limited time to play, some of us liked doing those quests and made a nice profit on the sale of bos and powder.
If you like the way it is now, fine, I don't have a problem if you wish to recall in and out, and drag beetles and packies along, or pile your gold on the ground. What you do is up to you.
However, why you need to denigrate anyone who's game style is different to yours I have no idea by calling them whiners, lazy or crybabies or whatever. Why because YOU like it you assume that it is the ONLY way they could of fixed it I have no idea. I guarantee you if you did an in game poll on this issue you would find the large majority of players would opt in an instant to have the bos back and made a useful item again.
I have not spoken to one person on my shard who actually 'likes' the change. I am sure there are some, they are just not the MAJORITY. Sure we are all living with it, we had no choice, sure there are ways around it, we are not stupid, we know how we can do it differently, we make the compromises to our play style, please don't assume people are 'morons' or need to be patronized because they don't like the change and you do.
I am probably one of the people LEAST affected by this change. Will it have an impact on my ability to earn, no, I make plenty by running my shop, crafting, doing peerless etc etc. But just because it won't affect me in any overtly negative way does that mean I should sit back and not debate the issue when I see something introduced that a lot of players don't like, that nerfs various parts of the game for others, that was an 'easy out' rather than a thoughtful adjustment to how the bos etc operated? No. I love UO and as such if I think something could of been better implemented I will say so.
Is it the end of the world? NO.
Is it just another thing that the majority of players are unhappy about? YES.
Is that good for the overall state of UO? NO.
Was it necessary? NO
J
JoyousGard
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
...
Why can't we open Ilshenar up? Just like anywhere else in the world? It is so old, none of the stuff is even fun or relevent anyway, just make us able to recall there. Big effing deal.
Because Ilshenar is not meant to be a gold camp ground. It's meant to be a more advanced PvE/PvM facet, one of the advances is the inability to Mark inside Ilsh.
[/ QUOTE ]
Besides paragons, which pose problems for some and not for others...
There is nothing more advanced about the content in Ilshenar, they are the same ratmen as in UO proper. How is a longer commute "more advanced?"
It's just more mobile monotony and not relevant, IMO, as the limit was put in there as a means to force a paid upgrade or force a migration to a new client in order to get new content. Well, that new content is old now, the limitations are not relevant.
Having to walk farther is not more advanced, it's less advanced. Magical transport is probably the most advanced means of movement ever conceived.
Paragons are not more advanced either, they are just programmed with higher stats/skills.
If my guys wanted exercise they would jog around Trinsic (less lag) a few times before going out to hunt.
IF this is about scripters, that is BS because scripters exist fine in the current Kal Ort Por grounds. Opening up new lands isn't going to change that. "Oh but they will have more places to script!" SUre, but they were doing fine in the current places, and that has been more or less constant for years, so it is just more of the same. If script problems can't be addressed in the current areas, why should players be penalized from accessing other areas because of scripters?
It's just going to give normal human players a wider selection of places to choose from to do the same thing they did the last time before they filled their packs and had to recall to the bank.
...
Why can't we open Ilshenar up? Just like anywhere else in the world? It is so old, none of the stuff is even fun or relevent anyway, just make us able to recall there. Big effing deal.
Because Ilshenar is not meant to be a gold camp ground. It's meant to be a more advanced PvE/PvM facet, one of the advances is the inability to Mark inside Ilsh.
[/ QUOTE ]
Besides paragons, which pose problems for some and not for others...
There is nothing more advanced about the content in Ilshenar, they are the same ratmen as in UO proper. How is a longer commute "more advanced?"
It's just more mobile monotony and not relevant, IMO, as the limit was put in there as a means to force a paid upgrade or force a migration to a new client in order to get new content. Well, that new content is old now, the limitations are not relevant.
Having to walk farther is not more advanced, it's less advanced. Magical transport is probably the most advanced means of movement ever conceived.
Paragons are not more advanced either, they are just programmed with higher stats/skills.
If my guys wanted exercise they would jog around Trinsic (less lag) a few times before going out to hunt.
IF this is about scripters, that is BS because scripters exist fine in the current Kal Ort Por grounds. Opening up new lands isn't going to change that. "Oh but they will have more places to script!" SUre, but they were doing fine in the current places, and that has been more or less constant for years, so it is just more of the same. If script problems can't be addressed in the current areas, why should players be penalized from accessing other areas because of scripters?
It's just going to give normal human players a wider selection of places to choose from to do the same thing they did the last time before they filled their packs and had to recall to the bank.
J
JoyousGard
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
The dungeon in the desert East of Compassion, Southeast of Chaos, the Poison elemental & elder Gazer room past the executioners and liches.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having not been to this dungeon more than once or twice, the longest part of this particular time trial was locating the room I was supposed to be timing the run from. After locating it, I did a trial run just to learn the path.
I opened the door to the elder gazer room, ran in real fast, and with it and a lich lord casting on me, I hit the start button on my stopwatch and took off running. When I hit the middle of Luna bank, I clicked the watch again.
1:59:53
Or about half a second under two minutes. Given practice at running this course, like say if I actually hunted there, I imagine I could easily work this time down a few more seconds.
So yeah, even when some smartypants picks the most remote back end of the most remote dungeon in Ilshenar, it's a two minute run. I repeat, you crybabies are pathetic. Even if I took a wrong turn, or had to stop and kill a paragon, what? Three minutes? LOL.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but three minutes is too long. LOL to spending three minutes running somewhere in UO.
You can order and receive a Bacon Jr in less time that. Why should UO be less rewarding than Wendy's?
To the Devs:
WHat's the point? SOme guy Blankbjorn was really mean and had magic or something or a crystal wand. Oh OK. Well, bring him out, give him 200 Wrestling, 150 magic, 400 resist, 9000000 HP, and a special move. We will kill him, and then let Kal Ort Por be possible in Ilshenar. The curse is broken. YAY!!
Great. A cheap easy content fix for you guys. A community builder (bc of the HP), a game improver. A win. Just make a Blankbjorn and put him out there and we will do the rest and then we are all happy.
<blockquote><hr>
The dungeon in the desert East of Compassion, Southeast of Chaos, the Poison elemental & elder Gazer room past the executioners and liches.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having not been to this dungeon more than once or twice, the longest part of this particular time trial was locating the room I was supposed to be timing the run from. After locating it, I did a trial run just to learn the path.
I opened the door to the elder gazer room, ran in real fast, and with it and a lich lord casting on me, I hit the start button on my stopwatch and took off running. When I hit the middle of Luna bank, I clicked the watch again.
1:59:53
Or about half a second under two minutes. Given practice at running this course, like say if I actually hunted there, I imagine I could easily work this time down a few more seconds.
So yeah, even when some smartypants picks the most remote back end of the most remote dungeon in Ilshenar, it's a two minute run. I repeat, you crybabies are pathetic. Even if I took a wrong turn, or had to stop and kill a paragon, what? Three minutes? LOL.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but three minutes is too long. LOL to spending three minutes running somewhere in UO.
You can order and receive a Bacon Jr in less time that. Why should UO be less rewarding than Wendy's?
To the Devs:
WHat's the point? SOme guy Blankbjorn was really mean and had magic or something or a crystal wand. Oh OK. Well, bring him out, give him 200 Wrestling, 150 magic, 400 resist, 9000000 HP, and a special move. We will kill him, and then let Kal Ort Por be possible in Ilshenar. The curse is broken. YAY!!
Great. A cheap easy content fix for you guys. A community builder (bc of the HP), a game improver. A win. Just make a Blankbjorn and put him out there and we will do the rest and then we are all happy.
I
imported_Skrag
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I'm sorry, but three minutes is too long. LOL to spending three minutes running somewhere in UO.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then the MMO genre bids you farewell.
I'm sorry, but three minutes is too long. LOL to spending three minutes running somewhere in UO.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then the MMO genre bids you farewell.