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Anti Bot Measures/Update from Sarah

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Guest

Guest
ok. even though this is not what the dev team posted in any way, shape or form... I would be ok with 21.5k per week. I believe that is alittle more reasonable. But again, this is not what the dev team posted. They stated in the very first post "3k per week per account".
 
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poppet

Guest
here is my math

a paying account at 9.99 a month will be able to make 4000 simoleans a month

a non paying account will be able to buy 10k simoleans a month

so paying customers will get less bang for their buck
 
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poppet

Guest
it did not say 3000 a week it said an initial payment of 3k which means 1 time payment

thereafter 500 per week added
 
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imported_TraciRK

Guest
where can we view how many credits we have? Or is that something we are not privy to?
 
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Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I understand that they are trying to crack down on bots, great. But it does not make any sense why the devs would give the botters a heads up on what they expect a bot will do. Cuz all they would have to change would probably a couple of lines in the bots program and wallah! "'I won't act like a bot anymore".

I say if you want to fight the bots don't give them a heads up on what you think bot behavior is!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point!
 
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Guest

Guest
Exactly. Being a non-paying account and buying 10 bucks worth of cash a month will work out better in the end. I am on the blog also and there have been no posts from the dev except from Sarah stating:

Sarah said,
on April 4th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
All, I was not kidding. This will NOT affect 98% of people based on how you’ve all been playing for the last few months. This intended only to stop bot like behavior. Other things you are reading into it are incorrect

To me, this is not making me feel any better about this whole thing. They need to give just alittle more detail but not enough to feed the botters enough info so they can adjust their code.
 
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Guest

Guest
See Duncan.. I agree 3k week is crazy. I'm a casual player and I made 3k yesterday doing boards (mostly chatting). So I can only assume that the other 30 people that were present, were making the same as I was, probably more since most where not talking a lot.

And from the out cry here on the forums, I can assume that 3k a day is about average if not on the low side. It makes no sense to have a 3k a week credit. Right? I mean... Right? Who here cant make 3k in 7 day's?

The only thing I can think is people have several accounts that they do pay for but never make money with .. there by f'ing with the averages that EA came up with? Right?
 
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imported_ChipsAhoy

Guest
WHY do we need to be limited period? If 2% of the population is 'questionable', then why punish the other 98%? That's just silly. There is no other way? Is it just to limit the cash flow? Or is it because in the end they want us to purchase ATM money and do away with the job objects altogether? I just think limits are bad. I will wait and see... but I don't feel very optimistic about this.
 
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poppet

Guest
Their not just trying to crack down on botters, they are stopping anyone who doesnt play according to their defination of playing. which means using the custom content program, buying as much as you earn. This will affect more than the botters. The are trying to ensure that nobody makes more simoleans than they are putting into the game and paying customers will make less than they are putting into the game
 
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PHREEKESIM

Guest
Just hitting reply.


I know this is not out in EAL YET, but I really don't like having my game play restricted because some people can't play fair.

I really really don't want to quit this game, I've held in there when everyone else started leaving, I've put a lot of time and money into this game PLEASE don't make all of that worthless!
 
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Lilstarr

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

This game is still very...VERY repaticious....we still only have the same 4 jobs...we still only have the same skills to skill...

As a founder all I see u've added is ..Teacher...which will teach the same skills we've had for years...so people can go work the same jobs we've worked for years....

Ok you added custom content...so we can skill the same skills we've skilled for years...to go to work at the same 4 jobs we've had for years...


There's not a THING in this post that is untrue with the exception of them taking away the ability to make money while doing these repetitive things. How are money house owners going to support themselfs when people cant afford to tip them now? I watch them Jam away to feed us hungry sims and now we're all going to starve... if they don't go out of business because everyone is too afraid to pick up a knife and cut an apple now...


Soooo confused!

Wonder if your noticing a pattern here....OH I FORGOT THE MONEY OBJECTS...

Ok we have the same money objects that we've had for years..that take the same skills we've had to skill on for years.....

And now u tell us if we do to much of one thing or another we will be penalized for it ....

Cause that is what u are telling us....

[/ QUOTE ]
 
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Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Snord, is that in TC3?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes o TC3 and affected everyone on the shift apart from one person who made more than was being paid out...go figure
 
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Guest

Guest
If those accounts didn't make any money, then that would only help with the overall situation. I had a second account that did not work. I was getting him skilled up to work. He drained more on the economy in the way of houses taking care of him than he got paid from the game. Having accounts that don't make money could only help the game.

Why limit us? Botting has been and will always be an issue. Do I think this is the only reason for the cap? No. I think even with the lower payouts and the increased prices of items, people were still making more money than the dev team thought. So, why not cap it? This way, no one can make more than the dev team has figured without putting some of that money back in. Hence... instant cash in/cash out (in game... not at the ATM's). I believe ATM's are the Root of All Evil (eh? eh? Anyone?) because they make those of us (I am one) who cannot afford to sink more rl money into this game feel like we will never make it. This is why I boycott the ATM's. Not everyone has the financial ability to buy money whenever they want something. To those who use the ATM's? By all means, thank you for contributing to the game more than what you have to. I just feel this is going to start forcing people to either start using them or leave the game.
 
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Purdy

Guest
The idea of cash out obviously works and EA just doesn't know how to do it yet. They need to take a look at the game Entropia Universe. That game doesn't have jobs, the way to earn money is to mine, kill creatures and manufacture weapons. The amount you earn is random and very little most of the time. They seem to have a secure system cause they are linking their cash system to a real banking system and real ATMs. Maybe EA needs to send some corporate spies over there to see what they are doing right.


I found this article:

MindArk PE AB, creators of Entropia Universe -- the original virtual universe with a real cash economy, today announced the auction of five virtual banking licenses which will integrate real world banking systems into the virtual world. These two-year exclusive licenses will be available through the public auction within Entropia Universe and will be open for bids beginning mid January 2007.

Entropia Universe is the only virtual universe on the internet whose currency has a fixed exchange rate with the US Dollar. Its currency can easily be moved between Entropia Universe and the real world using an ATM card. The Entropia ATM card can be used to instantly withdraw real cash from over 1 million ATM machines worldwide.

Giving the slogan 'more than a game' a whole new meaning, the virtual Entropia Universe banks will work in much the same way as real world banks, being initially provided with secure systems enabling them to:

Lend money to Entropia Universe citizens and collect interest for this service

Partake in the design and naming of their own virtual bank building(s)

Utilize the extensive advertising opportunities available within the Entropia Universe

Make their own personnel available through avatars that can interact with and provide service to other avatars

With over 500,000 registered accounts and a 2005 turnover of over 160 million dollars, MindArk PE AB's CEO Jan Welter Timkrans describes how: "The prospect of this entirely novel aspect of banking has generated considerable interest amongst many of the top brand names in banking. We are very excited to see the value of the world's first virtual banking license, and equally interested in soon finding out which banks, companies or private persons with the gift of foresight, we will have the pleasure of cooperating with in the exciting years to come."
 
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imported_TraciRK

Guest
So basically the only ones allowed to make any kind of money are the store owners, who are 80% afk all the time. There are store owners who are present on their properties so this is not addressed to them and those are the ones I try to go to.
 
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imported_Dali Dalinza

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


You will not be able to access your Payout Pool balance...


[/ QUOTE ]

The rest of you have done a great job trying to construct sense from Sarah's convoluted message. I must say that the aspect that bothers me most is the quote I have included above.

We are going to be subject to a strict logarithm from EA regarding how we can earn and spend our play money, a logarithm that will control our game play, but we will not be given any access to our individual status? This is like your bank telling you the interest rates and your balances are a secret only they can know.

Maybe the mystery of it all is intended to be part of the fun?
 
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Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Sounds interesting might have to check out Eutopia

[/ QUOTE ]

A pair of sunglasses in entropia cost 50 us dollars, be prepared to sink in lots of cash
 
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Guest

Guest
*ttl*

<blockquote><hr>

We’re starting to test a feature on TC3 that aims to help us to crack down on bot AND bot-like behavior, while not affecting the vast vast majority of players in any way.

......we consider that 98% of the populations of EA-Land and TC3 have been earning a very reasonable amount but that some of the remaining 2% are suspicious.

......We will give users an initial credit for what they can earn, then we’ll give them an additional credit each week and the users themselves can accumulate credit...

......we’ve been keeping track and had we turned this on when we first opened EA-Land,<font color="red"> it would not have affected 98% of players in any way at all</font> and we’ll work to keep it that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it possible, that we are not using the correct formula, if any of these statements are true......because we all know that majority of us have earned way more 3k a week...on more than one sim, even.

And finally....

<blockquote><hr>

Your Payout Pool is given an initial credit of 3,000

[/ QUOTE ]

...which is the full quote....notice that Sarah did not say §3,000, or 3,000 simoleons nor did she use the word 'money'....what she said was 'credit'.....but do we really know what the 'credit' represents?

*Is it possible that each unit of 'credit' represents a set amount of §/money/simoleans...which they are not going to release, least it be exploited by the botters?

*Is it possible, given the statements quoted, that we do *not* know the actual amount of money we are being credited with?

*Is it possible that we are all jumping to erroneous conclusions that the 3,000 credit = §3,000....when that conclusion does not jive with *any* of the other statements/assurances?


Just sayin...............
 
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imported_TraciRK

Guest
According to the tc3 players it is already messing with their amounts they can make
 
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Guest

Guest
Or it is another bug, and just a coincidence?


I will quote again....." had we turned this on when we first opened EA-Land, it would not have affected 98% of players in any way at all"

....and any Robot worker would have noticed a reduction in pay during a daily work shift......

....again...just sayin'....
 
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imported_Qute Pi

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Seriously, why does this have to be so difficult and confusing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am confused. I am calm still, but really confused. I like to believe they wouldn't lie when they say it won't effect 98% of us. I would like to believe they have done their homework on this one, including all possible scenarios.

I would like to know what their real goal is with this "cap credit can't understand it" post. I mean bots don't work at the jobs...

I would also like to believe that after a post like that they would know questions are coming; how about sticking around and answering a few.
 
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imported_ChipsAhoy

Guest
True, a 'credit' could be equal to 1000 $ (or whatever it is)... I doubt it, but I want to believe.

Think I might sit out for a while and let the kinks get ironed out of this one. Heck, maybe next log in I'll get my amnesty locks. Oh, I'm dreaming again.
 
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Guest

Guest
Well said. *salutes*.. What if 1 credit = 1 use of a money object?
 
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Guest

Guest
Yes, it could be anything. But, when the post did say they were currently testing this, I think it is safe to put two and two together. It is looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
 
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imported_ChipsAhoy

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I would also like to believe that after a post like that they would know questions are coming; how about sticking around and answering a few.

[/ QUOTE ]

THAT right there is what I find the MOST irritating.
 
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Guest

Guest
They want to respond to the questions they have answer to, so they wait for us to ask the right ones lol :p
 
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imported_Dali Dalinza

Guest
[quote
*Is it possible that we are all jumping to erroneous conclusions that the 3,000 credit = §3,000....when that conclusion does not jive with *any* of the other statements/assurances?

Just sayin...............

[/ QUOTE ]

In her explanation, Sarah states:

Your Payout Pool is given an initial credit of 3,000
This is how much money your characters can earn until you or we contribute back to that pool.


That seems pretty clear that "3,000" refers to units of playmoney.

She goes on to comment about 500 per week being added by EA. We know that we currently get 500 units of play money per week, which adds further to my conclusion that Sarah is talking about monetary units of playmoney when she uses the word "credits."

Where's CherryBomb when we need her????
 
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Tristan Lewis

Guest
I say the only way this is gonna work is if they start us out with the 3k per week + 500 per week we been paying our $9.99. So as an example lets say I got an account thats 100 weeks old they start me at 3k and add in the 500 per week = a grand total of 53k per week. Doubt that will happen but so far its not close to black and white. ITS ALL VERY GREY!!!!
 
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Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Yes, it could be anything. But, when the post did say they were currently testing this, I think it is safe to put two and two together. It is looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL...it is never safe to put 2 + 2 together, unless you are absolutely certain that those are the only numbers involved!


She made numerous statements that we would not have noticed and will not notice now, so that alone seems to disallow it being §3000, because even a casual player such as myself would have seriously noticed that!
 
R

rieley

Guest
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll notify CNN.

[/ QUOTE ]


pfft - FOX is already on it
 
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Guest

Guest
I agree with you on that. But, a post earlier stated in TC3, payouts went from 200 on average to 11. That is a huge drop. And the poster stated it was at a job track. To me, that is noticable
 
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Guest

Guest
But did they not also say that the amount they recieved was different from the amount was shown on screen?

Anytime the game says one amount and a player gets a different amount, it is a sign of a possible bug.

Again....just sayin'.....

I have no answers, only logic to fall back on. And it does not seem logical to say that 98% of us will not notice, if the first people back to the factory in TC3 are noticing something.....so my guess is that they are unrelated.
 
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Guest

Guest
Maybe it would be better if this didn't affect jobs. At least not in the higher levels. It seems really unfair that players who have worked hard to get to a high paying job would be capped at 3000 a week.
 
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Tristan Lewis

Guest
What I find crazy is that it affects jobs at all. My understanding was that jobs are unbotable!
 
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Guest

Guest
I'm going to go test my little simette in TC3, but I don't know how quickly I will see any difference, because I haven't logged in to TC3 since probably January. My simette is a level 4 or 5 waitress, so I'll send her to work and see what happens when I hit the 3k mark without buying anything.
 
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forsure01

Guest
Just replying to no one in particular.

OK, and I quote, "This is how much money your characters can earn until you or we contribute back to that pool".

So if I have $20,000 saved up and I go buy a lot will that be debited to my pool, thus giving me a $23,000 pool?

and I quote again "You debit your payout pool through activities such as buying objects, uploading custom content, buying a lot, etc."


Still pondering this.
 
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imported_Dali Dalinza

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Just replying to no one in particular.

OK, and I quote, "This is how much money your characters can earn until you or we contribute back to that pool".

So if I have $20,000 saved up and I go buy a lot will that be debited to my pool, thus giving me a $23,000 pool?

and I quote again "You debit your payout pool through activities such as buying objects, uploading custom content, buying a lot, etc."


Still pondering this.


[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, if you want to earn money you better spend money. Saving money and not spending will penalize your ability to earn. But, since we are told we will not have access to our balance, it will be a divine mystery for us to ponder and never know.
 
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Guest

Guest
I can't believe that allowing people to buy a lot now and have it affect their pool would be fair. alot of us bought lots when we arrived in EA Land. Why would we go buy another lot just to get the money put into our pool?

Someone put it right... work as much as you can now because we don't know when this is coming to EA Land.
 
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forsure01

Guest
LOL Duncan It would work the same way if you went out and bought $10,000 of Custom Content to redecorate that house and property you brought with you. It would increase your pool to $13,000.
 
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Guest

Guest
TTL....

Well, hmm. This makes me really glad that I shot out in the direction I did and am skilling up to make custom craftables and want to learn custom content. It says player to player transactions do not count, so the only way this will count against me is when I am playing code and/or working the job track. This isn't forcing me to an ATM, it is only elongating the goals I already have since after I earn the 3000 simoleans a week there's no point in playing more at the jobs. That means more time for skilling.

All in all, I find this news to be a mixed bag....some bad in that I can't have code-mania for a day and play without a bot if I want to, or reach the end of a job track as fast as I want to, but positive in that it means I won't achieve goals so fast that within 6 months I have nothing else to do. The one area that I think needs work is the property value, because yeah, with 3000 simoleans a person can spend that on 'objects' pretty easily putting them in inventory (though note I wonder since it said player-to-player transactions do not debit or credit if store lots would count, but maybe so since that is not directly player-to-player but the money IS going in another player's pocket not EA....so
) howevever if they have to save up for a plot of land then that means its going to take them 3 weeks of credits in order to by that lot, maybe 2 if they count their bonuses.

Because of that, I think lot prices need to come down to the 3,000 except for the 'rare' lots like islands and 3 sided water lots, those a player ought to have to save for if they want them. As for the rest of it, I don't like some of it, but I can deal with it....the lot prices though are the one flaw that I don't see how a player can work around, other than not owning their *own* land and instead moving in with somebody that already has land. Maybe that's why they did that.....to encourage players to pool resource more, because the way things are most players aren't doing that, they want their *own* land. I dunno.

Will be interesting to read reports on the testing that players are doing, indeed.
 
K

kwills75TSO

Guest
OK so here's how this will work folks.

<blockquote><hr>

We will give users an initial credit for what they can earn, then we’ll give them an additional credit each week and the users themselves can accumulate credit by contributing to the game through activities such as buying objects, uploading custom content, buying a lot, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK so we get an initial credit of 3k, not 3k per week, 3k per month, or 3k per day but 3k INITIALLY. Then we get 500 per week added to that pool. This means in the first week we can make 3.5k before we get penalized for it. It also means that each consecutive week we can make 500 before we get penalized. Then to add to our money pool we have to buy objects, upload CC, buy a lot, etc(not sure what is included in the etc.) So for those who don't do CC or don't know how to do CC will be limited in being able to replenish thier pool. Yeah we can all buy objects but at 35k per easel and a lot more for some items once all the merged inventory is sold out we can maybe buy one skill or money item, how much is that one item going to add back to our money pool??? probably very little! Yeah, we can buy a lot in order to add more to our pool, but we have to now save up for a month to 3 months in order to buy that lot and how much is that lot cost going to add back to our pool? What about buying CC does that count? probably not! What about buying build mode items will that count? (let's keep in mind that build mode item prices are jacked, some half walls and colums are costing 3k to 6k right now. see my post.... Build Mode Costs ) So now we have to work a solid week or more at 500 credits per week allowance just to buy one column for our new lot that we spent 3 months trying to save up for.


<blockquote><hr>

Activities such as using money objects and getting kickbacks from others using your money objects will reduce your credit. If the credit ever gets very low (and for most people it should never) you will get increasingly reduced payouts until you accumulate more credit, through your own activity or through that weekly boost.


[/ QUOTE ]

So our only way of adding to our pool is by paying out.... BUT, BUT, BUT, I'm trying to save for that 10k+ lot and 100K+ building on that lot!!! [Insert sarcasm] Yes that 500 per week will help out so much in this situation. [end sarcasm]

And now that I have my lot and house built and furnished after 2 years of working towards that goal people are starting to finally show up on my lot. BUT, BUT, I need to feed them, I need to repair the broken items, I need to keep replacing very expensive items because of the devaluation and depreciation on such items and I have no money to do so because I cannot make a reasonable amount of cash. Sorry folks you can skill here but you will need to go elsewhere to green up I can't afford to give you my food!!! Who here has spent 1.5k a day or more re-supplying the refrigerator??? I know I have many times over. Who here has spent 1.5k or more repairing a single item?? Yeah yeah we can call the repairman but it's just now 7pm and he won't show up until 10am in the morning, sorry folks you have to skill elsewhere while I wait on the repairman to show up. I can't afford to fix these items so yall can skill up in a green environment.


<blockquote><hr>

You debit your Payout Pool through activities such as jobs, using money objects, and getting kickbacks from others using your money objects.


[/ QUOTE ]
But we don't get kickbacks from money objects anymore, didn't they do away with that 4 or 5 updates ago??? And even if kickbacks were still working that takes away from the amount of money you can now make. so if you own a money lot and you like to feed your guests on occasion you are now screwed because every painting, gnome, board, etc that is sold on your lot takes away from the amount of money you can make.

Oh and say goodbye to tips folks noone can afford to tip you. In just the short time I've been back to TSO/EAland I've seen tips drop to almost nill, not even enough to cover food costs.



From a returning players perspective I found it very interesting that EA was implementing CC, cash-in/cash-out, a dynamic economy, a virtual real estate market, object scripting and more. I rushed back to this game with bells on in hopes of finding something here that I enjoyed playing and liked doing. So far I have seen quite the opposite. I know this is still a beta stage and I'm willing to give it time and the benefit of the doubt ( for now!!! ). But this is already starting to turn out like a second night time job, which is why I left TSO the first time. I have a job/career already, I come here to get away from all that and here I am feeling like an employee slaving away for a measley amount that isn't worth working for. This isn't a good start even if it is still in beta stage.


I understand the need to get rid of the botting with the new cash out feature being promised but what you are doing here is getting rid of your dedicated long time players not the botters. The botters will find a way around the system it's what they do. Pretty soon we will see ebucks being sold on ebay and other web sites that sell in game money and items. They will also sell it for less than EA's ATM's, making them null and void.
 
F

forsure01

Guest
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just replying to no one in particular.

OK, and I quote, "This is how much money your characters can earn until you or we contribute back to that pool".

So if I have $20,000 saved up and I go buy a lot will that be debited to my pool, thus giving me a $23,000 pool?

and I quote again "You debit your payout pool through activities such as buying objects, uploading custom content, buying a lot, etc."


Still pondering this.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Basically, if you want to earn money you better spend money. Saving money and not spending will penalize your ability to earn. But, since we are told we will not have access to our balance, it will be a divine mystery for us to ponder and never know.
_________________________________________________________________
And thats the point EA it seems would like you to spend a little of that money you have been saving. I believe there are more than a few people that have a few bucks stashed.
 
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Guest

Guest
testing this so far,having spent well in excess of 3k, I am still making 2 per board at 19 logic, so I dont think your pool is going to expand beyond your alotted amount of 3k plus each weekly increment
 
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Guest

Guest
TTL again

<font color="red">WAIT WAIT WAIT </font>

Lightbulb dawns. This says an initial credit of 3000 UNTIL YOU PAY BACK INTO THE POOL. Which means that when you spend that 3000 your pool will go back to 3000, players are tripping over the 500 but it doesn't say that's what your pool will be reduced to, it says that is what EA will put into your pool each week. What I summize from that is that *maybe* if a player did save up that 3000, and EA added the 500 in per week, then at the end of 6-7 weeks a person *could* buy that 10k plot of land if they are just hell-bent on not moving in with somebody else. It also doesn't say that after you've earned the alloted 3000 that your payouts will go to zilch, it says they'll be greatly reduced, so players *can* work a little bit extra during that 6-7 week if they have the wear-with-all to.

That's what I gather from this upon re-read....it seems the thing that most are freaking out over isn't actually what is being said.
 
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imported_TraciRK

Guest
i guess i will move my lots and items to one paying account and wait a couple weeks, if it is going the way it sounds, I'll just cancel sub on my other two paying accounts before they are due and just have the one.
 
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Guest

Guest
I guess the question is why limit us at all? They have alrady cut payouts to almost nothing while leaving the pricing of items in the stratosphere. What else can they do to slow us down from making money? Oh yeah... this is it. I am sorry but trying save up for 6-7 weeks to buy a lot 0 is not going to keep new players around. With CC and all other objects through the roof, will the long time players stick around?
 
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