Another of my great ideas : Trammies vs Feluccians war

[Landicine]

I agree there is a difference between PvP and PvM, but I also know that it takes a bit of skill to solo some of the higher end monsters. I know I will never be one of the best at PvP and PvM, and I won't lie to myself by saying it is just a matter of items and template (though picking appropriate items and template are important for any task in game). There is some sort of human skill involved. I would argue that PvP is more small unit tactics, and PvM is probably closer to motion studies (picking the most reliable tactic against a particular monster).

 

[Dreadlord Galaad]

Its sad to see that the topic changed into an endless discussion about pvp and pvm. The idea of the post was to talk about a way to involve trammelites (trammies) into pvp.
The comments of Tina Small are very interesting, I guess I will try to dig that up. Instead of trying to find a way to lure trammies with house deco rewards or social pressure to do pvp, I guess helping them to understand how to fight is more important.
Thats why, Im going to try to help people to get started with pvp and I will try to organize a newbie tournament in my arena, in fel, at chaos shrine on europa.

 

[Azureal]

, I guess helping them to understand how to fight is more important.

Youre assuming that "trammies" want to fight. They do, just not each other. And when they do want to fight each other, they can set up fights/pvp between guilds, with preset rules on grounds everyone agrees with.

Its called consent. Felucca doesnt have, never has, never will, and its why most "trammies" dont go there.

Meh, good luck either way.

 

[Desperado]

Its sad to see that the topic changed into an endless discussion about pvp and pvm. The idea of the post was to talk about a way to involve trammelites (trammies) into pvp.
The comments of Tina Small are very interesting, I guess I will try to dig that up. Instead of trying to find a way to lure trammies with house deco rewards or social pressure to do pvp, I guess helping them to understand how to fight is more important.
Thats why, Im going to try to help people to get started with pvp and I will try to organize a newbie tournament in my arena, in fel, at chaos shrine on europa.

Yes but simply put connection stops it a lot along with the third party scripts used in fel
it just does not appeal to me unless the playing field is similar

 

[Lady-Tor]

Personaly my old guild used to have wars against a friendly guild, it was great fun.

I did for a while got quite into proper fel pvp, but the crap talk. My god. So not interested in it. I can cope happily with mass ganks etc etc, as i cant say that if the numbers were reversed we wouldnt do the exapt same thing. Anyhoo, yeah, its the crap talk that puts me off. That, and that alone. I still do factions, i have my stealth/ninja/theif. That way i can be involved but dont have to listen to the talk.

 

[Beefybone]

This is the single worst idea I have ever heard ever anywhere in my entire life. The universe is now a worse place for it having been brought up.

 

[Connor_Graham]

This is the single worst idea I have ever heard ever anywhere in my entire life. The universe is now a worse place for it having been brought up.

*marks a point for the Dark side*

Where's Luke when you need him?

 

[Tina Small]

Its sad to see that the topic changed into an endless discussion about pvp and pvm. The idea of the post was to talk about a way to involve trammelites (trammies) into pvp.
The comments of Tina Small are very interesting, I guess I will try to dig that up. Instead of trying to find a way to lure trammies with house deco rewards or social pressure to do pvp, I guess helping them to understand how to fight is more important.
Thats why, Im going to try to help people to get started with pvp and I will try to organize a newbie tournament in my arena, in fel, at chaos shrine on europa.

Galaad, try posting something in the Baja forum and see if anyone can dig up for you the rules UG.K used/uses for PvP tournaments. Also, I think the old Stratics Oceania forum had a nice stickied post by someone (I'm sorry I just can't remember the name) that explained how to get started with PvP. I also remember some folks posting some good tips when the Books of Truth event was going on.

Perhaps T-Amon can help you get a good stickied thread about how to get started in PvP going in the UO Players Corner forum. Impose some rules about not trashing the PvP or PvM playstyles and maybe some other common sense rules, and I suspect that a lot of people who frequent U.Hall who have PvPed for years would be happy to add their tips.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Order Vs Chaos is outdated and removed
Faction system is more like a sandbox than anything else !
We need something where people get involved ! Im talking to players and especially devs, be cool and read about that new pvp system !
Instead of order vs chaos it will be trammies (not sure if trammelian exists) vs feluccians. Player will have the choice to take part in that war, the system will work exactly like order vs chaos worked. Except a few little things, we need stat loss like in faction and town capture. If all the towns are captured on a facet, the facet will turn to the new rule set (trammel or felucca) during 2 weeks.
Devs, if you add that new system of pvp, we will have some great fights, tons of harsh talking and all the good feelings that can be found in a intense conflict!
So guys, do you like that idea?? Its great no??

Nah
You make the same mistake as the world. One race. Not all this silly breakdown by country, flag, color and religion. We are (in game) Ultiminians. I guess id be 2/5 trammie, 2/5 malasian, 1/10 fellucian and 1/10 tokunian. Which side would I be on?

 

[phantus]

This is the single worst idea I have ever heard ever anywhere in my entire life. The universe is now a worse place for it having been brought up.

*marks a point for the Dark side*

Where's Luke when you need him?

I hear the dark side has cookies.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Order Vs Chaos is outdated and removed
Faction system is more like a sandbox than anything else !
We need something where people get involved ! Im talking to players and especially devs, be cool and read about that new pvp system !
Instead of order vs chaos it will be trammies (not sure if trammelian exists) vs feluccians. Player will have the choice to take part in that war, the system will work exactly like order vs chaos worked. Except a few little things, we need stat loss like in faction and town capture. If all the towns are captured on a facet, the facet will turn to the new rule set (trammel or felucca) during 2 weeks.
Devs, if you add that new system of pvp, we will have some great fights, tons of harsh talking and all the good feelings that can be found in a intense conflict!
So guys, do you like that idea?? Its great no??

Nah
You make the same mistake as the world. One race. Not all this silly breakdown by country, flag, color and religion. We are (in game) Ultiminians. I guess id be 2/5 trammie, 2/5 malasian, 1/10 fellucian and 1/10 tokunian. Which side would I be on?

 

[Aboo]

They put in carebear mode so people like you who hate fel so much

They put in Trammel, repeat after me Trammel, NOT carebear mode, for people who choose to play the game in a different way than you want to.

The good thing about UO is that it takes ALL kinds. There are crafters, tamers, PvPers, PvMers, decorators, explorers, crafters, etc. And in order for some of those professions to thrive they had to put in a safer place for them to work/live otherwise UO would, in my opinion, be completely dead today.

You can delude yourself if you want but there was a NEED for Trammel. People didn't necessarily hate Felucca, they hated the group of people who lived in Felucca who made it miserable on others.

 

[Thrand Graywolf]

but what can make trammies to change mind about pvp ?

A better attitude. Not yours...but just look at some of the responses.

There's a variety of reasons that keep some folks from PVPing..connection problems, lack of the required items, no desire to fight other people (and that includes killing them, not just a dislike of being killed)...but the biggest thing keeping most people out of Felucca is the poor attitudes of the people who call Fel home.

I've seen several folks who thought they were really impressive PVPers come on a tough PVM hunt and get their butts handed to them. Monsters hit far harder than any player can. Mostly, the experienced PVMers try to help them learn what they did wrong.

Flip to Fel and see a good PVMer try PVP...same result, gets his butt handed to him. And then gets robbed, insulted, and ress killed over and over until enough is enough and it's back to PVMing. Is it really a surprise that people don't sign up for this?

As long as there are so many rude Feluccans, Fel will never grow.

 

[Omnius]

I've never seen a fotm pvper feel threatened by spawn. I've seen old veteran pvpers returning to uo who got rocked by everything for lack of knowledge on game mechanics but a veteran pvper, with modern gear and skills getting instructed by a pvmer sounds like a lie.

The secret lay in the fact that "pvpers" are forced to fight monsters to make a proper living. an average pvper rarely spends more than 80% of their time in game pvping unless they have tens of millions in spare gold.

 

[ColterDC]

a veteran pvper, with modern gear and skills getting instructed by a pvmer sounds like a lie.

It is a lie, Someone who pvp's is better at pvm than someone who only pvm's.

 

[Kaleb]

If you found ways to gm skills in hours only at release you cheated.

GM Mages took months to become GM.
GM crafting took months to GM.


Lets hear from other long timers about how long it took to GM skills BACK IN THE DAY.

It took a long time I gmed magery around 99 and started in 98, I hit gm 3x and lost alot of skill points in the process. back then we couldnt control or lock skills like today. I also remember the pk situation was not all that bad I got pked maby 1/4 times i went out and I played pacific/siege my whole time. But there were other game design flaws that were annoying, like houseing from being able to place anywhere to gettin pked and lose your house key to find your home looted. If im remembering correctly power hour didnt come out till around or after renaissance and even after it still took some good time gmin skills even useing 8x8 or runnin through a mates fields, or havin 20 summoned daemons cast on ya it took some time. I also remember the game was alot more exciting than today the communities were alot stronger and peoples reps ment something where today siege is the only shard where all that is a vital function. its depressing I tell ya

 

[Kaleb]

It is a lie, Someone who pvp's is better at pvm than someone who only pvm's.

That is a true fact. for starters PvPers have the best gear thats all they care about most of a pvpers gold gos to their suits,weapons insurance. High end PvP gear is the same as High end PvM gear reguardless every suit is built around either players template. PvPers tend to know more about the #'s and %ages times,caps,damage vs resists, exc. where a PvMer will dress up in just resists or just luck or crap resists and good mods. PvPes are used to being dumped on either in ganks or Pvm and can heal/xheal through all to most dumps most PvPers are pvmers and will PvM if they need an item.

 

[Bluebottle]

So Fel vs. Tram

People who want to PvP, who's characters are set up to kill other players vs. PvMers with no experience fighting other players.

That doesn't sound like a war, it sounds like a one sided slaughterfest.

Hmmm - how about if we let red/blue PvPers join from a special in-GZ gate at the Fel side and they get to drive the monsters in a special champ spawn? They can "sponsor" a random "monster" for a token amount of gold - they get to loot gold and any recently acquired spawn loot from fallen PvMers. Monsters(PvPers) can't drop loot, loot other monster corpses or go overweight but they can attempt to make a run for a drop-chest that will deposit any acquired loot into their bank box. Spells, stats, skills and special abilities are limited to the selected monster - i.e. Lich, Dragon, Drake, Ogre Lord, Rune Beetle etc. Each time a PvPer dies, they are returned to the random monster selection gate with their original gear.

I think it might be kinda fun to see if a PvPer can tip the balance and give the monsters an edge - especially if they can coordinate and play in teams which typical PvM spawn does not

 

[Thrand Graywolf]

It is a lie, Someone who pvp's is better at pvm than someone who only pvm's.

Every faction player we've had come along with us so far has had their butts handed to them by paragons the first few tries. Perhaps they weren't as good as they thought they were, but it isn't a lie.

Now...someone who both PVPs and PVMs is definately better at PVM than someone who just PVMs. But people who PVP and think PVM means a trip to Hythloth...they tend to be shocked at the speed and damage of things like paragon lich lords when they first run into them.

 

[Lady-Tor]

A better attitude. Not yours...but just look at some of the responses.

There's a variety of reasons that keep some folks from PVPing..connection problems, lack of the required items, no desire to fight other people (and that includes killing them, not just a dislike of being killed)...but the biggest thing keeping most people out of Felucca is the poor attitudes of the people who call Fel home.

I've seen several folks who thought they were really impressive PVPers come on a tough PVM hunt and get their butts handed to them. Monsters hit far harder than any player can. Mostly, the experienced PVMers try to help them learn what they did wrong.

Flip to Fel and see a good PVMer try PVP...same result, gets his butt handed to him. And then gets robbed, insulted, and ress killed over and over until enough is enough and it's back to PVMing. Is it really a surprise that people don't sign up for this?

As long as there are so many rude Feluccans, Fel will never grow.

Couldnt have put it better myself.

 

[Budweiser]

Two remarks showing exactly why "trammies" will never have anything to do with Felucca, 99.9% of the time. **** poor remarks and name calling seems to be a fallback tactic of most Feluccans.

This game started as Fel only, with a larger player base than now. Most Fel players left UO after Tram was born.

 

[Omnius]

but the biggest thing keeping most people out of Felucca is the poor attitudes of the people who call Fel home.

You know, I keep hearing about this but other than 2 friends that play along side me in UO, very few people in felucca even talk to me. They don't trash talk me if I kill them when they're in an area thats designated a free for all. They dont trash talk me when I die. They don't talk to me at all unless I talk to them or if I stay on them like white on rice stealing potions and bandaids. And its usually to say stop or be KoS.

I've seen several folks who thought they were really impressive PVPers come on a tough PVM hunt and get their butts handed to them. Monsters hit far harder than any player can. Mostly, the experienced PVMers try to help them learn what they did wrong.

As I've said, I have a hard time believing this. For one, no PvPer doesn't engage in PvM. Everyone fights champs, they often repel invasions in felucca and elsewhere too. Not every pvper got all of their artis without farming. This is one of those aspects of the game that "trammelites," or people with next to no real knowledge of pvp or of felucca and pvpers regularly make mistakes about. They don't realize that to be a pvper you have to engage in pvm. This game is item based and unless you buy gold you probably have had to kill a monster or two.

And then to claim that the pvmer helped the pvper learn, is just silly. When I'm in trammel, I get yelled at for killing monsters when I was at a spawn first. I get cursed out at banks. I get cursed out for selling things in luna. I get cursed out for taming something. I get cursed out for killing bulls outside of delucia because I was "supposed to let the tamers tame them all and then release them" before i kill them. Frankly, I know exactly where the bad attitudes are in UO, everywhere. I'm sure there are people with foul mouths on both sides and its outrageous for either of us to claim the bad attitude is only on one side based on our personal experiences. I've had no good experiences in trammel. You've had none in felucca. Thats fine but don't try and tell me immature brats aren't everywhere

Flip to Fel and see a good PVMer try PVP...same result, gets his butt handed to him.

I would imagine so, you usually die a bunch in any games end-game before you get into it. Especially these days when you need 80mill in gear to be prepared to pvp.

And then gets robbed,

what are people stealing thats so hard to handle? Bandaids and potions? Thieves were nerfed to oblivion. Any claim that thieves are even a minor reason why not to go to felucca is total bs. Its excessive whining and a refusal to just kill thieves like everyone else does that resulted in this horrible situation for thieves.

insulted,

I've addressed the absurdity of this comparison.

and ress killed over and over

If you get res killed more than once in a while, you're an idiot. Point blank. There is no way you can't realize that ressing where its dangerous won't have bad results after you get res killed once.

until enough is enough and it's back to PVMing.

the best answer you came up with is a really valid one. The barriers to pvping are too high. It's too time consuming to get good gear and train skills to gm+

Is it really a surprise that people don't sign up for this?

Nope acquiring gear and training skills is mind numbing grind that isn't fun. Let us get better gear sooner and let skills gain faster so we can get to the end-game faster.

As long as there are so many rude Feluccans, Fel will never grow.

if you really believe this, you're a :loser: