Another of my great ideas : Trammies vs Feluccians war

[Dreadlord Galaad]

Order Vs Chaos is outdated and removed
Faction system is more like a sandbox than anything else !
We need something where people get involved ! Im talking to players and especially devs, be cool and read about that new pvp system !
Instead of order vs chaos it will be trammies (not sure if trammelian exists) vs feluccians. Player will have the choice to take part in that war, the system will work exactly like order vs chaos worked. Except a few little things, we need stat loss like in faction and town capture. If all the towns are captured on a facet, the facet will turn to the new rule set (trammel or felucca) during 2 weeks.
Devs, if you add that new system of pvp, we will have some great fights, tons of harsh talking and all the good feelings that can be found in a intense conflict!
So guys, do you like that idea?? Its great no??

 

[ColterDC]

So Fel vs. Tram

People who want to PvP, who's characters are set up to kill other players vs. PvMers with no experience fighting other players.

That doesn't sound like a war, it sounds like a one sided slaughterfest.

 

[T_Amon_from_work]

Order Vs Chaos is outdated and removed
Faction system is more like a sandbox than anything else !
We need something where people get involved ! Im talking to players and especially devs, be cool and read about that new pvp system !
Instead of order vs chaos it will be trammies (not sure if trammelian exists) vs feluccians. Player will have the choice to take part in that war, the system will work exactly like order vs chaos worked. Except a few little things, we need stat loss like in faction and town capture. If all the towns are captured on a facet, the facet will turn to the new rule set (trammel or felucca) during 2 weeks.
Devs, if you add that new system of pvp, we will have some great fights, tons of harsh talking and all the good feelings that can be found in a intense conflict!
So guys, do you like that idea?? Its great no??

TvF just ain't gonna happen ... no matter how "fair" you wanna make it.

 

[Aibal]

I agree with Colter. It would be a slaughter, and hardly "fun" for Trammies. No matter what you may think, the majority of players do not PvP, and forcing it on them would be a way to **** off more players who would leave. You might like having Trammel live by the Fel ruleset for two weeks, but a huge percentage of the player base would not. Furthermore, if by some miracle the Tram facet took the Fel cities, what would happen to reds?rolleyes: Chalk this up in the "bad idea" pile.

 

[linko50]

sounds to me like some people here arent up for anything that isnt hand sewn around them.... I like the idea, and i also payed attention to the " you can join or not join" thing...... maybe i am the only one that read that part, but then again, uo has had years and years for these people that have spoken up so far to mould it to the pit it has become. the true Ultima online died along time ago. I would love for it to be able to rez, but alot of people here have to have it all their way, or they think the world is going to end

 

[kelmo]

Dreadlord Galaad, are you sure you are on the right shard?

 

[Aibal]

sounds to me like some people here arent up for anything that isnt hand sewn around them.... I like the idea, and i also payed attention to the " you can join or not join" thing...... maybe i am the only one that read that part, but then again, uo has had years and years for these people that have spoken up so far to mould it to the pit it has become. the true Ultima online died along time ago. I would love for it to be able to rez, but alot of people here have to have it all their way, or they think the world is going to end

LOL. I haven't played "years and years". I love Fel, I would do it. I DID read the "you can join or not join" thing. But think about it....do you REALLY think many trammies are going to sign up for this? Really? So for the 10 that do per shard, it will be a slaughter, and then how do you reconcile turning it into a fel ruleset for those that chose NOT to participate? Before you criticize others, you might want to give it some thought, or perhaps you missed reading THAT part.rolleyes:

 

[linko50]

just for $|-|its and giggles i would join the trammy side, so that i could have some fun and yes, dieing is part of the fun, but what some of you havent realized yet, is that any adrenaline rush takes some sort of daring, or risk.....

 

[MalagAste]

If I wanted PvP I'd be in Fel..... and when I want to PvP I do go to fel... However...... when I want to be left to hunt in peace I really don't want any part of PvP.......

 

[DENNAR]

Order Vs Chaos is outdated and removed
Faction system is more like a sandbox than anything else !
We need something where people get involved ! Im talking to players and especially devs, be cool and read about that new pvp system !
Instead of order vs chaos it will be trammies (not sure if trammelian exists) vs feluccians. Player will have the choice to take part in that war, the system will work exactly like order vs chaos worked. Except a few little things, we need stat loss like in faction and town capture. If all the towns are captured on a facet, the facet will turn to the new rule set (trammel or felucca) during 2 weeks.
Devs, if you add that new system of pvp, we will have some great fights, tons of harsh talking and all the good feelings that can be found in a intense conflict!
So guys, do you like that idea?? Its great no??

It has been done and it was a failed attempt to have something happen. I did this event in 2002. I would say over 400 people participated between the 2 sides. It was held in Felucca. We tried to set it up with just 2 rules. No pets and leave healing/rez stations off limits. Those two rules were to much for many to follow. Yet every duel I see or hear about in felucca has rules. But when Trammie meat is near bloodlust takes over.

The plan was to be able to have rez stations where players could rez-heal and rearm and go back into the battle. We did it via 2 guild stones. But the mentality of many Felucca players was not to join in but to disrupt instead. A large group of Feluccians decided to attack the rez stations, then they attacked the re-arm stations and chaos errupted.

The arsewipes that are some players could not let an epic battle happen. In actuallity the Trammel side was winning because they had better plans. The Trammel side was made up of mainly archers. Why? Because archers auto fire. The Felucca side was mainly mages. Lag means mages cant cast but archers keep shooting.

But all was for nothing when the group of griefers started, then the feluccian side just followed the blood lust. The griefing was so bad many Feluccians turned thier backs on fellow Feluccians and posted apologies for what happened.

After seeing what happens when Trammel vs Felucca things are tried I doubt you would get many Trammel players to show any interest in this. Blame past players for this, just like why many left Felucca.

 

[linko50]

If I wanted PvP I'd be in Fel..... and when I want to PvP I do go to fel... However...... when I want to be left to hunt in peace I really don't want any part of PvP.......

yuo get the same effects you are looking for on the origional NES, go and play

 

[Omnius]

Uh if the carebears can't win a fight in which hundreds of them fight a handful of pvpers, they should probably play shadowbane instead.

 

[Azureal]

yuo get the same effects you are looking for on the origional NES, go and play

Uh if the carebears can't win a fight in which hundreds of them fight a handful of pvpers, they should probably play shadowbane instead.

Two remarks showing exactly why "trammies" will never have anything to do with Felucca, 99.9% of the time. **** poor remarks and name calling seems to be a fallback tactic of most Feluccans.

 

[Omnius]

trammies and fellucans? Thats the worst example of misleading names ever. Trammies, can be called this only if one refers to them as players that never leave the trammel ruleset. They are often called carebears because they are the same people that play WoW, and avoid games with loss or complex difficulties(they prefer a game in which knowing the numbers determines the outcome).

Fellucans is a misnomer. This is the name given for all people who engage in pvp. a more accurate name would be PvPers. Often these are the people who prefer games with loss, and complex difficulty(strategy of the opponent is more important than knowing numbers).

And my statement is quite accurate, if you think hundreds of gold farmers can't fight and dominate a small group of elite pvpers you should play Shadowbane. In Shadowbane, it is quite the feat when a hundred + newbs can't beat 20 of the best veterans.

Both games offer favorable conditions and few restrictions to "zergs"

 

[Lady-Tor]

Firstly, no i think its a bad idea. If you want to be able to pvp everywhere, go to Siege.

Secondly, you say it would be an option, like you can choose if you want to be involved. However at the end your saying tram/fel would change to the winning sides ruleset. I dont see how i could choose to be un involved if tram turns to fel.

If a 'trammy' wants to pvp, they can come to fel. So chances are you wont get people interested. I cant talk for other shards, but you Feluccians need to realize that PvP just isnt our thing.

Another thing that annoys me... No tamers? My main char is a tamer.

The whole idea is

Go to Siege.

 

[Setnaffa]

First, it would be "Trammelites" vs. "Feluccans".

Second, obviously this will never happen. This would be the same as telling PvPers to come try to kill monsters for 2 weeks. PvP characters aren't well-suited for PvM any more than PvM characters are suited for PvP. On top of that, players who only PvM don't like the Unreal-Tournament blood-lust of PvPer's anymore than the PvPers like the lack of human-like AI in the creatures in PvM. Two different play-styles that will never share the same way they have fun.

 

[Stigmatas]

Order Vs Chaos is outdated and removed
Faction system is more like a sandbox than anything else !
We need something where people get involved ! Im talking to players and especially devs, be cool and read about that new pvp system !
Instead of order vs chaos it will be trammies (not sure if trammelian exists) vs feluccians. Player will have the choice to take part in that war, the system will work exactly like order vs chaos worked. Except a few little things, we need stat loss like in faction and town capture. If all the towns are captured on a facet, the facet will turn to the new rule set (trammel or felucca) during 2 weeks.
Devs, if you add that new system of pvp, we will have some great fights, tons of harsh talking and all the good feelings that can be found in a intense conflict!
So guys, do you like that idea?? Its great no??

I have a better idea. Why don't we make a facet where pvp does not exist and players can play their game the way they want to and have a choice to pvp or not. I think that facet would most likely become the most populated facet of all time.





Oh yea.

 

[Stigmatas]

It has been done and it was a failed attempt to have something happen. I did this event in 2002. I would say over 400 people participated between the 2 sides. It was held in Felucca. We tried to set it up with just 2 rules. No pets and leave healing/rez stations off limits. Those two rules were to much for many to follow. Yet every duel I see or hear about in felucca has rules. But when Trammie meat is near bloodlust takes over.

The plan was to be able to have rez stations where players could rez-heal and rearm and go back into the battle. We did it via 2 guild stones. But the mentality of many Felucca players was not to join in but to disrupt instead. A large group of Feluccians decided to attack the rez stations, then they attacked the re-arm stations and chaos errupted.

The arsewipes that are some players could not let an epic battle happen. In actuallity the Trammel side was winning because they had better plans. The Trammel side was made up of mainly archers. Why? Because archers auto fire. The Felucca side was mainly mages. Lag means mages cant cast but archers keep shooting.

But all was for nothing when the group of griefers started, then the feluccian side just followed the blood lust. The griefing was so bad many Feluccians turned thier backs on fellow Feluccians and posted apologies for what happened.

After seeing what happens when Trammel vs Felucca things are tried I doubt you would get many Trammel players to show any interest in this. Blame past players for this, just like why many left Felucca.

Quoted for insight.

 

[Mythic]

What about the Murderous Felucians. How are they going to come to Tramel to participate? Really not to bad of an Idea, but youll find that most trammelites that would support this idea have already moved to SP.

 

[WarUltima]

Trammies vs Fels...
It will be interesting but it will totally be unfair.
I live in Fel I dont care how many Greater Dragons or peerless SOLO OWNING samipres the trammies can come up with. They WILL drop like flies.

UO isnt WoW. In UO if you want to compete in pvp, you need all the pvp gears, skills and most importantly experiences to back it up. (Unless you are playing a straight up chiv archer with really good gear).

Trammies will not survive one day, and you will see angry trammies scolding and flaming on stratics, paging GMs or even quitting the game. Why did they make Trammel in the first place?

I just cant imaging the chaos this would create. Can you imaging the people who solo playing (and owning) monsters with 100times player hp that casts super fast also hits super hard everyday and get instantly dropped by a player with mere 110 hp? It will create mental break down which would result in trammie quitting and lose of revenue. Right losing MONEY for EA, thus this would never happen.

 

[Lady-Tor]

Some people dont pvp becuase of things like connection too.

 

[Dreadlord Galaad]

Oh
I guess, I will never see any big fights again, thats sad. The majority of players plays on trammel... but what can make trammies to change mind about pvp ?
... ...
I KNOW !
There is another way to attract people, let's add some house deco rewards as well for trammies and some useful pvp gears for feluccians !

 

[Tina Small]

Oh
I guess, I will never see any big fights again, thats sad. The majority of players plays on trammel... but what can make trammies to change mind about pvp ?

Galaad, it CAN happen. I watched it happen on Baja with the Underground Knights (UG.K). I wish the old forums were still up so you could see some of the posts that were made as UG.K put their little toe into Fel to test the waters and then gradually got more involved. I wasn't part of UG.K when all this was going on, but what I saw as an outsider was them telling the large PvP guilds that they wanted to learn how to PvP, actually going out and trying it over and over, sponsoring PvP tournaments in Fel, and having a policy of returning dropped items.

I don't know how active UG.K is still with PvP on Baja, but I do recall seeing several posts where other PvPers on Baja gave them kudos for what they were doing. I don't ever recall seeing negative posts about them, folks putting them down for being "noobs" at PvP, or telling them to just give it up because they were all "Trammies."

If you want to see more Trammelites go to Fel and get involved in PvP, I think you need to be prepared to offer some decent advice about templates, gear, how to actually fight, and how to handle various situations that don't come up in Trammel. I also think that the leaders of the large PvP guilds who want to see this happen need to take a firm stand on how they are going to handle guild members who are clearly using hacks and exploits to gain an unfair advantage. If it became more obvious that players themselves are trying to police this issue and make it harder for folks to get away with using hacks and exploits (versus actually applauding and promoting their use), I believe a lot more people who left Fel in disgust or who have never played there would begin to slowly trickle into Fel and give PvP a try.

 

[Prince Caspian]

I'm all for PvP. In fact, I posted a thread about how everyone should come back to Fel just to try it again after all this time. Frankly, I was pretty disgusted with some of the replies, that people immediately assumed that I was trying to influx Fel with new victims for me to PK. That made me lose a lot of respect for some of the people around here, to be honest. Especially since I never PK outside of Faction alignment, ever.

What you are proposing is a return to the Dread Lord Days, which will never happen. Because the cold hard fact is that PKs spent years bullying other players mercilessly, players who didn't necessarily want a thing to do with PvP.

The system of barbarism where you can squash mules and newbies is forever gone. Look at the other MMORPGs and you'll see almost all of them learned from those days in this game. PvP virtually everywhere else is consentual.

Again, I PvP in Fel all the time, (PvP and not PK, folks don't seem to understand the difference. All PKing is PvP but not all PvP is PKing in the notorious connotation) but something else people on the other side don't understand is some people, plain and simple, choose NOT to play PvP. While it may be true its cuz they suck at it, just as valid a reason is that they don't think its fun.

I'll even take it a step further. PKing ISN'T fun when you are the victim. It's friggin annoying and for some players, upsetting. Most PKs arent interested in giving a clean fair fight, they want to slaughter someone who doesnt have a prayer of winning before they can get away.

And you know what? Back in the day, despite all the bullspit PKs said, the REAL PRIZE was that THEY RUINED SOMEONE'S NIGHT. Pure and simple. They loved lording power over others. Folks can argue that point till the minotaurs come home, but no amount of revisionist history will change what I saw firsthand night after night.

How about that folks? I'm anti-Tram and anti-PK in one post!

 

[Landicine]

The "bad years" of UO made a lot of people wary of anything with letters pvp. It was frustrating to play in those days sometimes. Many of us had fun despite the pks, not because of them. I stopped doing events in Felucca because it was almost never worth it.

I can enjoy PvP, but I also like times when I can switch to my crafter who couldn't kill a newbie with a golem. My crafter vs the lastest pvp uber template would be an exercise in pointlessness. This is why pvp has to be consentual. It isn't some break down of "stronge and noble pvpers" and "the weakwilled trammie." It is about protecting against those who will always tear into the weakest characters and players.

We all pay the same amount per month, so the game should fit everyone's playstyle. Those who like player combat have it in spades. I find it amusing that there is always a request for new pvp systems when the current systems aren't taken advantage of. When my roleplay ninja can be commanding lord of a faction despite not finding any faction people to fight, perhaps that's a problem.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I'm all for PvP. In fact, I posted a thread about how everyone should come back to Fel just to try it again after all this time. Frankly, I was pretty disgusted with some of the replies, that people immediately assumed that I was trying to influx Fel with new victims for me to PK. That made me lose a lot of respect for some of the people around here, to be honest. Especially since I never PK outside of Faction alignment, ever.

What you are proposing is a return to the Dread Lord Days, which will never happen. Because the cold hard fact is that PKs spent years bullying other players mercilessly, players who didn't necessarily want a thing to do with PvP.

The system of barbarism where you can squash mules and newbies is forever gone. Look at the other MMORPGs and you'll see almost all of them learned from those days in this game. PvP virtually everywhere else is consentual.

Again, I PvP in Fel all the time, (PvP and not PK, folks don't seem to understand the difference. All PKing is PvP but not all PvP is PKing in the notorious connotation) but something else people on the other side don't understand is some people, plain and simple, choose NOT to play PvP. While it may be true its cuz they suck at it, just as valid a reason is that they don't think its fun.

I'll even take it a step further. PKing ISN'T fun when you are the victim. It's friggin annoying and for some players, upsetting. Most PKs arent interested in giving a clean fair fight, they want to slaughter someone who doesnt have a prayer of winning before they can get away.

And you know what? Back in the day, despite all the bullspit PKs said, the REAL PRIZE was that THEY RUINED SOMEONE'S NIGHT. Pure and simple. They loved lording power over others. Folks can argue that point till the minotaurs come home, but no amount of revisionist history will change what I saw firsthand night after night.

How about that folks? I'm anti-Tram and anti-PK in one post!

Glad to see someone out there still remembers UO's history.
IBTL or move to SnR

 

[linko50]

I'm all for PvP. In fact, I posted a thread about how everyone should come back to Fel just to try it again after all this time. Frankly, I was pretty disgusted with some of the replies, that people immediately assumed that I was trying to influx Fel with new victims for me to PK. That made me lose a lot of respect for some of the people around here, to be honest. Especially since I never PK outside of Faction alignment, ever.

What you are proposing is a return to the Dread Lord Days, which will never happen. Because the cold hard fact is that PKs spent years bullying other players mercilessly, players who didn't necessarily want a thing to do with PvP.

The system of barbarism where you can squash mules and newbies is forever gone. Look at the other MMORPGs and you'll see almost all of them learned from those days in this game. PvP virtually everywhere else is consentual.

Again, I PvP in Fel all the time, (PvP and not PK, folks don't seem to understand the difference. All PKing is PvP but not all PvP is PKing in the notorious connotation) but something else people on the other side don't understand is some people, plain and simple, choose NOT to play PvP. While it may be true its cuz they suck at it, just as valid a reason is that they don't think its fun.

I'll even take it a step further. PKing ISN'T fun when you are the victim. It's friggin annoying and for some players, upsetting. Most PKs arent interested in giving a clean fair fight, they want to slaughter someone who doesnt have a prayer of winning before they can get away.

And you know what? Back in the day, despite all the bullspit PKs said, the REAL PRIZE was that THEY RUINED SOMEONE'S NIGHT. Pure and simple. They loved lording power over others. Folks can argue that point till the minotaurs come home, but no amount of revisionist history will change what I saw firsthand night after night.

How about that folks? I'm anti-Tram and anti-PK in one post!

I agree with that entire post, what i dont see is how people cannot see that there are two sides to PvP, the side that is for PK/Kill on site, and the side that is all about Player vs. Player, where two people who are ready and willing go against each other to see who has better planned reactions and combos.. and if you look close enough, and dont spend too mcuh time at Yew gate, you will notice that there are ALOT of pvpers that arent just into PKing.....

I have said it before, but you cannot ever get a computer generated and controlled monster to provide the same type of battle as another person, you just cannot predict another person



also, to Jahira-Tor that said it is all about connection, you cant have beeen more right.... i remember when factions started, when there were fields everywhere, and candleabras stacked to the heavens, and stacks of fur hiding mass archers. Those battles were EPIC, but on 56k you missed out on most of it.

 

[Omnius]

back in the day I never had the slightest pity for people whose excuse for dieing was they were a mule. My mule was a perma red. the good Baron miner frequently pked pks and during stat loss days, never once died(more luck than anything). Folks cried oh the mean pks killed me and my skills are low. That sucks for them but gming a skill took 2-3 power hours and you usually gmed multiple skill simultaneously. max stats took an hour to attain, the barriers to entry into UO's endgame were low.

The first time in all of UO that I felt it was hard to be a carebear was when they introduced malas. It suddenly required high end gear, skills are slow to gain and excessively time consuming and templates no longer even make sense.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I agree with that entire post, what i dont see is how people cannot see that there are two sides to PvP, the side that is for PK/Kill on site, and the side that is all about Player vs. Player, where two people who are ready and willing go against each other to see who has better planned reactions and combos.. and if you look close enough, and dont spend too mcuh time at Yew gate, you will notice that there are ALOT of pvpers that arent just into PKing.....:

You are right. There was 2 sides to Fel. When it all started PVP ruled and PVPers left the supporting stuff (ie MULES) alone because we made and repaired thier armor for them. Then you saw a large amount of PKers. This is what killed Fel and the reason Tram had to be created or UO would have died way back then. If there were a Fel V Tram it would have to be Fel side only and those that wanted too could play. If it were allowed in Tram all you would see is a massive rise of PKers destroying it for everyone. PKers were the reason we left Fel in the first place and we do not want to see them in Tram at all.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

trammies (not sure if trammelian exists) vs feluccians.

...

So guys, do you like that idea?? Its great no??

the non-derogatory term for Trammie is Trammelite

this is not a bad idea but there has to be an option to mute players on the opposing team. smack talk is a huge problem in UO when it comes to the idea of PvP for those that play for fun rather than only to win and grief.

 

[Lord Frodo]

back in the day I never had the slightest pity for people whose excuse for dieing was they were a mule. My mule was a perma red. the good Baron miner frequently pked pks and during stat loss days, never once died(more luck than anything). Folks cried oh the mean pks killed me and my skills are low. That sucks for them but gming a skill took 2-3 power hours and you usually gmed multiple skill simultaneously. max stats took an hour to attain, the barriers to entry into UO's endgame were low.

The first time in all of UO that I felt it was hard to be a carebear was when they introduced malas. It suddenly required high end gear, skills are slow to gain and excessively time consuming and templates no longer even make sense.

Good for you. If Fel is so great why is it so dead? PKers. You love Fel so much then stay there and quit trying to bring your playstyle to our side.

 

[Omnius]

I'm not trying to bring fel to trammel. Frankly, i don't want to pvp with you or anyone else in UO. PvP is dead and expansions aimed at pleasing carebears killed it. The trash talking loonies who call themselves pvpers are scripters, and item collectors. Thats nice for them but pvp based on skill doesn't exist in UO anymore and most of them even admit it.

PKers make UO less boring, and expansions make PKing more boring.

nobody was afraid of a lone pk before trammel. The lone pk was usually a new guy experimenting with notoriety. The sad thing was, a small few people refused to defend themselves and just complained until they had their way. Now the remaining people that play in felucca complain that their game is constantly being nerfed for other people and carebears take that as a sign that their play style is better.

NEITHER PLAY STYLE IS BETTER. BOTH SIDES ARE FULL OF WHINERS. SKILL IN UO DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE AND THUS THERE IS NOTHING TO COMPETE OVER.

People who want to have skill based competition play Shadowbane, Age of Conan and Darkfall beta. People who don't play WoW, UO or EQ.

In the end all any of us can ask for is balance and less absurd item based play. I know I can't pvp anymore. After 3 hours of searching i can't find all the caps that exist in game. That alone was all I needed to know before i decided not to even attempt PvP anymore.

Also, if fel is dead why do I see more people there than any other place. You're just as absurd sounding as the tools demanding fel ruleset everywhere.


I can't believe people like you still argue trammel v felucca. Both are pale shadows of what they could have been. More Diablo 2 and WoW knock offs than Ultima Online.

 

[DENNAR]

back in the day I never had the slightest pity for people whose excuse for dieing was they were a mule. My mule was a perma red. the good Baron miner frequently pked pks and during stat loss days, never once died(more luck than anything). Folks cried oh the mean pks killed me and my skills are low. That sucks for them but gming a skill took 2-3 power hours and you usually gmed multiple skill simultaneously. max stats took an hour to attain, the barriers to entry into UO's endgame were low.

The first time in all of UO that I felt it was hard to be a carebear was when they introduced malas. It suddenly required high end gear, skills are slow to gain and excessively time consuming and templates no longer even make sense.

Your back in the day is not my back in the day. When I started it took MONTHS to gm a skill not hours. When someone lighting a camp fire near you might mean you lost gm in a skill. That .1 skill loss might take weeks to get back.

Yes back in MY day if you were out mining and someone tried to PK you you could hold your own. It was usually player made weapons and armor vs the same on the other person. Today you have 120 skill sets and artifact armor and weapons. You also dont usually get a 1-1 fight. Even back in my day the pk's ran in packs. Dont forget there was no pet bonding a miner had to have some taming to keep the packies tamed and had to have some magery to cast gates because the packs didnt follow on recall. But maybe you forgot all about that.

So maybe back in your day you had no issues but back in MY day there were.

 

[Omnius]

uhhh I played at release. I'm sorry I found better ways to gain skills but once GM skilled people began to appear, patches arrived and made it much easier to train skills.

 

[DENNAR]

uhhh I played at release. I'm sorry I found better ways to gain skills but once GM skilled people began to appear, patches arrived and made it much easier to train skills.

If you found ways to gm skills in hours only at release you cheated.

GM Mages took months to become GM.
GM crafting took months to GM.


Lets hear from other long timers about how long it took to GM skills BACK IN THE DAY.

 

[galefan2004]

If all the towns are captured on a facet, the facet will turn to the new rule set (trammel or felucca) during 2 weeks.

The worst part of a bad idea. They will never remove Trammel, and lets just come out an say it...you want them to remove Trammel through this system because you believe the Trammelites will lose and Felucca will reign supreme. What you must be forgetting is, at the most legitimate of estimates, 75% of players play Trammel and probably 90% of those play tamers. If you want to bring your 25% of the population to attack Trammelites I'm sure having 100+ super dragons attacking you at one time will result in even more complaints then the one or two super dragons that are taken to Felucca to kill everyone.

 

[galefan2004]

So Fel vs. Tram

People who want to PvP, who's characters are set up to kill other players vs. PvMers with no experience fighting other players.

That doesn't sound like a war, it sounds like a one sided slaughterfest.

Yeah, because those that pledge their alliance to Trammel have never stepped foot in Felucca and can not pvp. Thats funny. A lot of people that spend 95% of their time in Trammel are still totally into PvP that other 5% of the time. I still can't wait to see the whines about the tamers though...I tried to attack this tamer and suddenly 10 of his friends showed up and all of them stuck their super dragons on me and I lasted 1 second...NERF SUPER DRAGONS.

 

[Omnius]

If you found ways to gm skills in hours only at release you cheated.

GM Mages took months to become GM.
GM crafting took months to GM.


Lets hear from other long timers about how long it took to GM skills BACK IN THE DAY.

And gm weapon skills were about as easy as could be believed once dex was raised.

 

[Aboo]

Lets hear from other long timers about how long it took to GM skills BACK IN THE DAY.

I was one of the first GM Scribes on LS and it took what seemed like FOREVER to GM inscription. Realistically it was probably only months but it seemed MUCH longer.

 

[Aboo]

. . .When I started it took MONTHS to gm a skill not hours. When someone lighting a camp fire near you might mean you lost gm in a skill. That .1 skill loss might take weeks to get back.

Boy do you bring back memories!

 

[galefan2004]

sounds to me like some people here arent up for anything that isnt hand sewn around them.... I like the idea, and i also payed attention to the " you can join or not join" thing...... maybe i am the only one that read that part, but then again, uo has had years and years for these people that have spoken up so far to mould it to the pit it has become. the true Ultima online died along time ago. I would love for it to be able to rez, but alot of people here have to have it all their way, or they think the world is going to end

It never ceases to amaze me really that people hold onto UO only existing without Trammel as being real UO. UO has had trammel for over 8 years now. Thats 3/4 of the time that UO has actually existed (at least) and UO peaked with Trammel numbers included. The only thing that made UO into non-UO was the AoS system changes and unless thats what you were referring to then nothing else killed original UO.

 

[ColterDC]

A lot of people that spend 95% of their time in Trammel are still totally into PvP that other 5% of the time.

So someone spending 5% of their time PvPing is going to stand a chance vs. someone who spends 95% of their time PvPing?

Yeah that seems logical

 

[galefan2004]

yuo get the same effects you are looking for on the origional NES, go and play

Thanks for telling me what games I am allowed to play. I would be offended, but I take comfort in the fact that this game has been developed around my playstyle for 8 or more years and all the developers have done for you guys in that time was fix some over powered templates that were whined about enough.

So, I don't know what you are talking about, but I think this game was designed around Trammelites like myself, and Feluccans have done nothing for this game other than cause players to leave the game.

 

[Landicine]

I'm going to agree with Dennar here. Most skills weren't that easy to raise. Magery required lots of reagents which were hard to buy since NPCs were always out, and since the healing skill was a joke, everyone had to have magery. Most GM mages had to burn through reagents with nightly elemental summoning macros. People used to light camp fires at banks for a grief tactic because of the coding that allowed you to gain skill passively by learning from others. Power hour was probably the period of crazy easy skill gain you were thinking about. Also, I find I can get a 7xGM character pretty easily these days with attended playing (though I do use UOAssist macros and a good book from time time time).

Looking at my crafters,

120 Blacksmithing
120 Tailoring
100 Mining
100 Arms Lore
100 Tinkering
100 Cooking
80 Magery

100 Blacksmithing
100 Tailoring
100 Tinkering
100 Carpentry
100 Bowcraft
100 Arms Lore
Rest Music/Magery for Addons

How am I supposed to kill someone with 120 Magery 120 Eval 120 Meditation let alone someone with a 6x120 PvP template and appropriate items? Even in the "days where only skill mattered," I would have been slaughtered.

I still believe skill matters in PvP unless people cheat. Oddly enough, cheating probably undermines Felucca more than the "horrible" Trammies who mostly leave the Feluccans alone except to buy powerscrolls. Most of my recent pvp experience has been against other roleplayers in controlled situations, and even with some using superior items, I've seen some less wealthy players do alright.

I also love how only pvp skill counts for anything in this argument. I would argue that there are a whole lot of other player-determined "skill"-sets like commerce, community building, etc.

 

[galefan2004]

And my statement is quite accurate, if you think hundreds of gold farmers can't fight and dominate a small group of elite pvpers you should play Shadowbane. In Shadowbane, it is quite the feat when a hundred + newbs can't beat 20 of the best veterans.

Both games offer favorable conditions and few restrictions to "zergs"

Two problems...

1) Those that are farming the stuff to sell are normally selling it to PvPers to begin with. In most cases more money = better equipment and rather you like it or not in UO as of late better equipment = better chance in pvp.

2) You are assuming that the veterans that live in Trammel have never pvped or do not currently pvp. Just because players don't want to put up with Feluccan attitude doesn't mean they don't get into war guilds or the ocassional romps at the Yew gate or champion spawns.

Felucca has been on a downtrend for 8 years not because of the realm but because of the players. People don't come to Felucca not because they don't want to PvP but because they got tired of listening to people that run their mouth like 2 years old by the time they raised their own 2 year olds.

 

[galefan2004]

Trammies vs Fels...
It will be interesting but it will totally be unfair.
I live in Fel I dont care how many Greater Dragons or peerless SOLO OWNING samipres the trammies can come up with. They WILL drop like flies.

Thats right that all Trammel is filled with. I'm pretty sure when the answer to greater dragons is 100 or more you guys will whine like you do about a single greater (just 100x more now).

UO isnt WoW. In UO if you want to compete in pvp, you need all the pvp gears, skills and most importantly experiences to back it up. (Unless you are playing a straight up chiv archer with really good gear).

You are right...WoW actually takes skill to compete. UO takes very little skill other than finding the greatest exploit and using it to your advantage. Pushing buttons (or using programs to push buttons for you) is not skill. Also, those items that you need to "gear" with come 100% from PvM, so who is more likely to have the items the PvPers that buy everything from vendors or the PvMers that go out and get the items?

Trammies will not survive one day, and you will see angry trammies scolding and flaming on stratics, paging GMs or even quitting the game. Why did they make Trammel in the first place?

Funny, but the only people I have ever seen run their mouths on these boards and harrass gms were not Trammelites. They made Trammel so people wouldn't be forced to put up with people like you when they didn't feel like doing so.

I think its funny that you assume Trammelites can't PvP when 95% of "Feluccans" spend more time in Luna bragging about their 1337 PvP skills then actually pvping.

I just cant imaging the chaos this would create. Can you imaging the people who solo playing (and owning) monsters with 100times player hp that casts super fast also hits super hard everyday and get instantly dropped by a player with mere 110 hp?

Can you imagine a Doom group with 10 super dragons, mages, and archers that all understand how to target the right creature and use their most powerful attacks doing that against a solo pvper with 110 health? I think its funny that you guys honestly think there is any difference between PvP and PvM because its all about hitting as hard as you can as fast as you can while staying alive and its just the same in PvP and PvM.

It will create mental break down which would result in trammie quitting and lose of revenue. Right losing MONEY for EA, thus this would never happen.

More Feluccans have left this game then Trammelites for the purposes of pure hatred of the game. Feluccans leave because they can't whine anymore, and Trammelites leave because they are simply bored.

 

[galefan2004]

I have said it before, but you cannot ever get a computer generated and controlled monster to provide the same type of battle as another person, you just cannot predict another person

I totally and utterly disagree because most people behave in totally predictable patterns. That is part of a sociological makeup and it enters into the game with people almost always chosing the same actions. Some of those players chose those actions with a lesser ability than some of the AI in this game. I know plenty of PvPers that can take 2 players on at the same time and end up victorious that get killed by a single lich lord.

 

[galefan2004]

So someone spending 5% of their time PvPing is going to stand a chance vs. someone who spends 95% of their time PvPing?

Yeah that seems logical

Yeah it does because as much as you guys want to think pushing buttons quickly or having programs do it for you is skill it really isn't.

UO doesn't require anymore skill than to target a player and hit with your most damaging attacks while remaining alive, and PvM hones those instincts just as much as PvP does. The only difference between the two is its easier to hack in PvP then it is in PvM.

 

[WarUltima]

You can lie to yourself more that all the pvpers are running a program that when they detects a trammie in range it pushes bottom for you and kill them.

They designed fel so people dont have to play the game at hard difficulty. They put in carebear mode so people like you who hate fel so much and thinking everyone just have a program running and automatically kills you because you got gears 10x better than that PK who dropped you.

It's funny that you said WoW is all skill when UO is all item. A raid epic'ed out Hunter will have around triple the crit chance, 1.8x the damage. and at least double the HP and Mana compared to a casual reward outfitted Hunter. And there is no cap... Rogues can go to 103% evasion, casters can stack spell damage unlimited. You are talking to a guy with six level 70s spread out on two pvp servers. I played thru everything in WoW to cap level cept Warrior and paladin. I can tell you WoW is the biggest grinding game of the century and the item power differences can overtake player skill in a heart beat.

Now tell me since when in UO you had to put up against another UO player with 220hp, 250mana, hitting for 70 dmg per(or 100+ with specials) thru all 70 resist, and their lighting strike crits three times more? Or you really think people in Fel has all these stats? This might be a news to you but most stuff in UO has a cap, and even the poorest can spend a few dollars and hit the cap. Your inability to survive in PvP isnt because all Fel players use an automated trammie kill program. It's not the items, its not the gears it's YOU.

Hope one day you can enjoy PvP like a lot of us vet players. The roots of UO did not have trammal and carebear safty mode. A lot of us still prefer playing a game without godmode and enjoy the challenge. I hope you can come around and get some PvP experience, then you can probably enjoy PvP like all the players who played UO since day 1. Actually I know a lot of new comers who love pvping. Just remember one thing, hacking do exist but there's no automated kill trammie bottom. UO pvp takes much more skill than WOW (unless you are playing an chiv archer) especially mage/necro varients.

Already hope you can one day enjoy the other half of the UO. Hey I enjoy all 100% of UO. Got my Pvper got my PK and got my trammie tamer that with a nearly maxed stat greater. One day when you are ready my brother, we will see you in fel.

Peace.

 

[ColterDC]

UO doesn't require anymore skill than to target a player and hit with your most damaging attacks while remaining alive, and PvM hones those instincts just as much as PvP does. The only difference between the two is its easier to hack in PvP then it is in PvM.

You're obviously delusional if you think there is no difference between PvP and PvM.