A way to effectively balance tamers in PvP without effecting PvM

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

It doesn't matter how many times you post your theory, it's still not true. It's an awful idea. I hope the Devs disregard your posts as quickly as the rest of the community.

Funny, I have seen more voice in support of it than against it...unless you consider every "I wanna have the most powerful template in the game" posts to be in opposition.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Cap all damage to players at 35. Problem solved.
No reason a Greater Dragon can hit a player for over 35hp. This will not be a devastating nerf to tamers. They will still be an integral part of PvP.

Players should be able to do more than 35 damage to player pets.

I have PvP'd on a tamer before, and was really disgusted with how easy it was to kill people. A template that literally had only 4 buttons it needed to push at any given time, and was 99.9% guaranteed to kill its opponent.

Adding the 35damage cap will shift this towards more balanced, without nerfing tamers into oblivion, or even blow a topnotch template.

I agree about the damage cap.

There is no reason that an archer should be able to pop me for 60+ damage if my pet can only hit him for 35.

Fair is fair.

It's funny to watch all those whining for the nerf stick for tamers change their tune when the stick is pointed at them as well.

 

[Lynk]

Funny, I have seen more voice in support of it than against it...unless you consider every "I wanna have the most powerful template in the game" posts to be in opposition.

That's because most of the people that post here don't PvP. They PvM and don't want their EZ Mode tank to get nerfed at all. A 35 dmg cap per hit is some of the dumbest **** I've ever heard. With scribe, 20 eval, 150 int, and item capped SDI an explode can hit for 34 points on someone that is cursed. You're saying that a flame strike (higher circle and double the mana cost) should be capped at 35 dmg too?

That's just dumb. One of the great things about UO is the ability to fight other people using different tactics and techniques.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

That's because most of the people that post here don't PvP. They PvM and don't want their EZ Mode tank to get nerfed at all.

How are you measuring the term "most"?

You mean as a percentage of posters in this particular thread, or as a percentage of total registered Stratics forum users?

Please enlighten us...

How many Stratics users are there, and how many PvP and how many don't...since you seem to have your finger squarely on the pulse of the Stratics and PvP communities, you should know...right?

 

[ATLPvPer]

Sure I do. I tamed it, I trained it, it's mine.

How would you like it if the devs nerfed your favorite weapon?

Good day.

That is a very selfish response, no offense.

I would and HAVE attempted to get my 'favorite weapons' nerfed because they were completely unfair and overpowered in PvP. Just because someone played a WOD archer who killed individuals in one hit, does that mean they shouldn't try to get it fixed? Horrible reason to be arguing with us, if it is to only keep your overpowered pets.

As it is, dreadmares and GD are a vast problem in PvP, and if any of the devs still PvP'd, it would be fixed by now.

 

[ElRay]

And once tamers are nerfed, then something else will be overpowered...and so on and so on and so on.

As long as players are not willing to adjust their play styles and templates to whatever is currently the most powerful thing in the game, then there will always be an overpowered template.

Look at it like this...


Right now, it pretty much goes...

Tamers (specifically stealth tamers)
Archers (specifically speed hack archers)
Necro mages (EO/Para)
Warriors
Mages
Bards
Crafters

In PvP. So, you nerf tamers, and you get...

Archers (specifically speed hack archers)
Necro mages (EO/Para)
Warriors
Mages
Bards
Crafters
Tamers

...fine...

But now you will have Necro mages whining non-stop until you have...

Necro Mages
Warriors
Mages
Bards
Crafters
Tamers
Archers

...then, Warriors will whine until it's...

Warriors
Mages
Bards
Crafters
Tamers
Archers
Necro mages

...then the mages will whine until it's...

Mages
Bards
Crafters
Tamers
Archers
Necro mages
Warriors


You see where this is going??

Yep, balance, if we didnt balance this stuff, we would still have archers hitting for 100+ hps with honor and 4/6 casting mages with 30+sdi.

Excellent point thanks.

 

[It Lives]

With my gm mage,

100 mage
100 med
100 eval
100 resist
100 scribe

and less than 50's suit with dragon slayer book I can take out a untamed Greater Dragon.

LoL@pvper's whats the problem?

The untamed greater does more damage?

The problem is no one makes there templates to be (all around suits/ templates). So specialized these days that you need butt load characters just to play every scenario.

: my lazer toting ninja necro bushy bard with Chiv's cant kill you WAAAAAAAth?

Nerf it.

 

[red sky]

The only real problem that I've noticed with pets is not that damage that they do. It is the fact that it can become very difficult to escape them. I've noticed that whatever the pet may be, cu-sidhe, dragon, or mare, they all seem to have this speed hack type thing going on. I'll get dismounted and the cu-sidhe will instantly be on me the moment the tamer says "all kill". This is my only complaint against these taming templates. Also, don't get me wrong, they run normally most of the time but they get small "speed bursts" that combined with an archer spamming mortal and paralyze with a bow can make it very hard to escape. I for see that this would be a very good way of creating balance without throwing a side off too much. Just remove that stupid speed burst thing they have going on.

 

[Viper09]

Tamers really are not that much of a problem. I go to yew and what do I see? Tamers? no. I mostly see dexers, archers, mage warriors, etc. When I do see a tamer they are not owning anyone, instead they say "all kill" and the pet get ganked by the pks forcing the tamer to get his pet back. If it's a pk tamer, again the pet is attacked by someone with a dragon slayer or enemy of one. EA hasn't done anything to the pets and so the players found out what they need to do to counter them.
Bottom line: PvPers know how to kill pets and that's what they are doing.

I hardly ever see tamers owning everything in PvP.

 

[Anakena]

No thats not true at all, tamers are completely overpowered in pvp, im sorry.

I dont come here because I die to tamers or because I hate them, or because my father was a tamer and im acting out against him.

Its because everyone that plays on my shard hates tamers, most guilds have a no tamer rule because all you have to do is...

Bola+all kill+smoke bomb

Bam you have the greatest damage in the game, what the original posted said is soo correct, 35 dmg plus bleed then fireball, kills most ppl on siege almost instantly.

Then you have the best defence in the game, you cant be seen.

It is extremly overpowered

Your problem is mainly caused by Siege rules, not by pets. take the firebreath : it will make 60 damage against 70 fire resist. I suspect no one has 70 resist in Siege. Now import in Siege pets and weapons that were designed and balanced for production shards and you have a problem of excessive damage.

A good start for fixing such problems would be to raise the base resist you get from legendary magic resist to 60.

And the template you describe (Bola tamer/stealther), you do not see them on production shards, so I suspect, again, that is a more a siege issue. Another good fix for that issue would be to tie bola usage to tactic like it used to be when they were introduced (why should an item have a 100% success rate with 0 skill while a special, requiring the weapon skill and tactic can be missed and parried?)

 

[Connor_Graham]

Another good fix for that issue would be to tie bola usage to tactic like it used to be when they were introduced (why should an item have a 100% success rate with 0 skill while a special, requiring the weapon skill and tactic can be missed and parried?)

Bola's should be included as one of the weapons in the new Throwing skill. That way using a Bola would require actual skill points involved, just like every other dismount item.

 

[IAMTHEWHITERABIT]

SO LETS RECAP:

1. Require vet on tamers to control pets.

2. A cap on damage of 35

I am going to add in the "logging pet out to save it" I can't log out just before I die to save myself. If the game crashes I don't get logged out. Why do pets?

Also would like to add animal form to control slots. So if you want to jump in animal form it takes 2 slots.

 

[WarUltima]

Bola's should be included as one of the weapons in the new Throwing skill. That way using a Bola would require actual skill points involved, just like every other dismount item.

Bola is alright. At least my victims can sometimes run out of its range after I targeted them. I prefer my hxbow. 7-tile range dismount for average of 35dmg to 70 physical resist. And unlike bola, dismount shot is instant, if RNG is right you ARE dismounted instantly. And I dont give a damn about GD I feel more agile using my dread+bake combo. I just ride up to my victim at mount speed, instant dismount shot+all kill+moving shot spam with my baby 40ssi hit fireball/velocity balanced HXbow.

I can kill around 9 out of 10 opponents I dismounted using this combo regardless of template usually within a few seconds. Only thing I find a bit harder to kill is evasion dexer/mages.

 

[RichDC]

Also would like to add animal form to control slots. So if you want to jump in animal form it takes 2 slots.

That was meant to be in the last publish.

 

[archite666]

With my gm mage,

100 mage
100 med
100 eval
100 resist
100 scribe

and less than 50's suit with dragon slayer book I can take out a untamed Greater Dragon.

LoL@pvper's whats the problem?

The untamed greater does more damage?

The problem is no one makes there templates to be (all around suits/ templates). So specialized these days that you need butt load characters just to play every scenario.

: my lazer toting ninja necro bushy bard with Chiv's cant kill you WAAAAAAAth?

Nerf it.

First: your missing the point where wild dragons can be lead around and have no intelligence.
Second: 50 fire resist? the fireball would hit you for like 80, please post a video of you doing this.
third: the OP hit everything right on, 35 damage Plus bleed then a 60 point fireball (which any pvp dragons will do) is just redicous

come to Siege Perilous and I'l show you what a greater dragon can do, or I can come to your shard since it would only take me a like a week or two to get my skills up there.

What I find funny, is that we Siegers have been yelling about tamer pvp for years, and the prodo people didn't think it was a problem but now it seems its spreading. I wonder if our complaining somehow started a big tamer pvp tread on prodo...Hmmm

 

[T'Challa]

First: your missing the point where wild dragons can be lead around and have no intelligence.
Second: 50 fire resist? the fireball would hit you for like 80, please post a video of you doing this.
third: the OP hit everything right on, 35 damage Plus bleed then a 60 point fireball (which any pvp dragons will do) is just redicous

come to Siege Perilous and I'l show you what a greater dragon can do, or I can come to your shard since it would only take me a like a week or two to get my skills up there.

What I find funny, is that we Siegers have been yelling about tamer pvp for years, and the prodo people didn't think it was a problem but now it seems its spreading. I wonder if our complaining somehow started a big tamer pvp tread on prodo...Hmmm

Please stop acting like you speak for the majority of Siege Perilous. Noone elected you spokesperson, TYVM. Also, you've been on my shard for a year (roughly, but I digress) so stop acting like you're some sort of SP vet. Many of us have seen what it takes for you to compete, and you are laughable, sirrah!

 

[Alezi]

I can live with this...as long as ALL PvP damage is equally capped.

Why should your uber l337 bow do 60 damage to me, but my pet can only do 35 to you?

A lot of you scream for balance, but in reality you seek dominance through favoritism.

You're quite missing the point. An archer shooting target X = 1 source of damage. A tamer shooting target X + tamer's pet shooting target X = 2 points of damage.

A mage stops to heal himself = mage doesnt do any damage. A tamer stops to heal himself = his pet is still doing damage.

See my point?

 

[Lost-Soul]

You all need to stop complaining and adapt. Either play a template that you can survive and enjoy or go back to tram.

 

[red sky]

Bola's should be included as one of the weapons in the new Throwing skill. That way using a Bola would require actual skill points involved, just like every other dismount item.

If bolas actually dismounted a player instantly like every other dismount option that a warrior uses then I would agree with this. But, bolas take around 3 seconds to actually leave a players hands before they hit the target. This gives ample time for any player to run or as I've noticed the "good" pvpers doing, simply dismount your mount if you suspect you are being bola'd. So no, leave the bolas alone.

 

[WarUltima]

With my gm mage,

100 mage
100 med
100 eval
100 resist
100 scribe

and less than 50's suit with dragon slayer book I can take out a untamed Greater Dragon.

LoL@pvper's whats the problem?

The untamed greater does more damage?

The problem is no one makes there templates to be (all around suits/ templates). So specialized these days that you need butt load characters just to play every scenario.

: my lazer toting ninja necro bushy bard with Chiv's cant kill you WAAAAAAAth?

Nerf it.

Actually wild GD fire breathe dont do more dmg if the tamed one has over 1000hp. At 1000hp fire breathe does 60 to player with 70 fire, 80 to 60 fire, and in your case with 50 resist you would take 100 fire breathe damage.

Sounds like you have no clue what you are talking about. Dont lie. When you made that post it was April 1st.

Also I would be able to kill a GD with the stat you have. It will take awhile with a lot of cast and offscreen. Actually you shouldnt be talking about PvP if you cant even kill a GD anyways. Oh here, when I use my all GM tamer I can kill a GD without taking ONE SINGLE POINT OF DAMAGE ON MY CHARACTER!!!1111... So what's your point?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

You're quite missing the point. An archer shooting target X = 1 source of damage. A tamer shooting target X + tamer's pet shooting target X = 2 points of damage.

A mage stops to heal himself = mage doesnt do any damage. A tamer stops to heal himself = his pet is still doing damage.

See my point?

Yep. That's why people get the taming skill.

You would think that after 11+ years of Ultima Online, more people would understand how the game works by now.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Get rid of bonding, and let pets follow other players through gates again. I miss the days of having a gate setup close and then have the pet follow me in. A quick jump back through the gate and a quick dispell, evened up the playing field against those pesky tamers...la

 

[Petra Fyde]

I think this thread has outlived its usefulness. Time for a

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