A potential alternative to Insurance on Siege...

[Kat]

So, I had a bit of an idea last night and I haven't quite fleshed it all out, but maybe we could do that together if the idea has any merit. Please bear with me while I go over some of my thoughts on this particular problem.


It has long been my opinion and I think a lot of you and also former Siege players agree that one of the primary problems with Siege has been that over the years, UO has become a very item based game. It started with AoS and grew from there year after year. The suits we put together can be very costly and certain items can be quite difficult to obtain and prodo shards have insurance to protect not only their gear, but pretty much any item they place in their backpacks. Basically EVERYTHING there can be protected from loss. If its not blessed, it can be insured. Plus, if they dont want to live in peril, they can stay in Trammel. We do not have such options. Here... People stop playing, stay in their houses or stealth everywhere. No bueno.

Siege wasn't designed to be played that way. Gameplay was fun back when it was cheap to equip yourself to PvP or Pvm and if you lost whatever battle you happened to be engaged in you went home, licked your wounds, re-equipped, went back out and proceeded to have fun again. The fun of the old days ended when equipping ourselves became heavily item based and suits became very expensive to replace. Pvper's took to house hiding and only coming out when they had larger numbers to PvP with to protect their assets. Faction buybacks became way too frustrating to deal with. Even PvMer's/PvEer's had the same issues. Many of those people took to hide/stealth to protect their gear. Many of the PvPer's left this shard in frustration. It was just too costly to re-equip and no one, no matter your playstyle, wants to farm for days on end and spend tons of time on acceptable replacement gear only to lose it again 10 minuts later. Yet, most of us still do not want insurance. It's too big a pill to swallow. It goes against the very nature of what Siege was meant to be, but... something has to be done. What, is the question of the day!

So the other day I mentioned in another thread that I wished the devs would just roll us back to a pre-AoS verson of Siege, but when I thought about that a little more seriously, I didn't think that was such a hot idea either. Yes, I would love to play a shard like that again, but I would miss all the things I love about the game today. Champ spawns, bosses in the Abyss and imbuing. Necromancy, ninja, busihido and chivalry skills, etc. So I started wondering what might alleviate some of the problems here on Siege and attract more players at the same time... and I came up with some ideas that might be a little more palatable to us.

My idea is similar to having insurance, but on a limited scale and there is a pretty big tradeoff on the flipside. Here is the basic idea:


- All worn or equipped items are non-lootable. They will basically act as if they are insured. These items include earrings, necklaces, full suit, clothing, shoes, books, sheilds and weapons. Esentially, anything worn or held in the hands.

- There is no gold cost involved. [See tradeoff below] This is not insurance. I haven't thought of a name for it yet. Help me out here!

- All soulstones, bank checks, spellbooks, runebooks, tokens/gift tickets ethy mounts and charger's of the fallen remain blessed.


The Tradeoff: [And this is going to be huge for Siege thieves!]

- ALL other blessed tags are removed from siege.

Just for clarification, this includes all other vet rewards [not listed above] that are not equipped, all gift items in our out of a bag or box, BOD's, commodity deeds and anything else the game automatically blesses.

- There is no insurance so no item equippable or not can ever be insured for protection.

- The Siege Bless function will be disabled.

- All items that are currently blessed with CBD's will be unblessed.

- CBD's will be removed from the tailoring reward list on Siege.




So the general idea is to get people playing again and not so afraid to leave their houses! Not just PvPer's, EVERYONE! Pvmer's, crafters, thieves, merchants! We all make this shard what it is and we need people to show up, be visible and play. We need to have fun again and not be so worried about losing million dollar suits. We need players, we need community, we need good guys and bad guys again. We need a little more danger in the land of peril! I think these changes, in combination, could give that back to us and... I think these changes, in combination, are also in keeping with the spirit of what is Siege Perilous.

Not only might this be more palatable to older Siege players, but could also draw players from other shards. Here, there will be no rez-killing padding the killer's bank account. The only cost for equipment is your initial cost and/or improvements.



This is the basic idea. It may need a little more fleshing out. Thoughts?

_____________________________________________________________________

***Edited to add/remove/alter details as needed.

Added that tokens/gift tickets should remain blessed

Removed that equipped items should become stealable. [Unfair to warriors who get disarmed]

Altered wording to state that items would act as if they are insured instead of blessed, which behave differently than insured items upon rezzing.

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

The most blessed things now are the items which cause frustration on loss, but are not necessary for fight. runebooks, deco etc.
Also I need cbds for one reason, for use on nomod clothing, so it's a bad idea.
Sure most people and pks would like to see more people wear rare pricy artifact gear, but the economy as it is has a great market for lotsa replaceable gear, lucky jewels and mod spellbooks. It is currently unknown how to merge these two aspects ( people wear arties and replaceable crafted suits). We should somehow make people wear arties a little without blessing or insuring it.
As of hiding and stealth, it's nothing bad, except that people don't gather in towns to spend their time and find parties. In stories about the old uo I heard, most people had some hiding and used it when staying still for a while to avoid ninjas. Having some detect too for the same reason (but it didn't help since ninjas have 120 stealth).
Also you can't stealth mounted.

Btw, the first volume of bedtime tales (about Hercule) is available for purchase at Landreu's place. Come, buy, wait for the second volume.

 

[Vaype]

I think something like this would be great. One of the main reasons that I quit years ago was because of this. I would only have a couple of hours to play in the evenings, and most of that time was PvP with the guild. I would usually lose a few suits during that time. Eventually I ran out of money for new suits and didnt want to waste days PvMing to get the money or drops to remake those suits.
That caused me to go with hiding and stealth to try to keep my gear. I would only attack with a group to be sure that I could get away (if I died it was hours of farming). At the end I would just sit in my house most of the time and wait for a group to start up.
I have recently reactivated my account and will probably be playing some. I would love to play out in the open, but with all of the new stuff it seems to be even worse than when I left 6+ years ago.
I've been playing on Chessy trying to figure out some of the new stuff. I will probably be on siege also, but its pretty much the same situation as when I left.

Vaype

 

[Bo Bo]

Bo has been saying this for years.... You are going to get the siege "loud mouths" here saying they will quit if this ever happens. And they will talk bout how it will kill crafters and farmers, soulstones killed the need for crafters and farmers long ago. Bo has been saying people leave siege because they get tired of losing there stuff. Bo should know bo has taken more stuff from people than just bout anyone. It is why the Bo was/is hated by soo many people.

As for Marisa no one buys mod spellbooks why cause they can have a blessed one, stealth is a huge problem on siege it has been op for years please dont tell the bo to combat it with detect. That **** just doesnt work. A good stealther will always get away or kill the revealer. You cant stealth mounted but you can move at a good pace in animal form. Not many people wear arties (or quality gear) and you arent going to be able to make them. Why dont they wear them cause they dont want to lose them. The only people that wear them are what Bo likes to call the "haves". The Haves have lots of money and arent afraid of losing some of it. So this gives them a huge advantage out in the field. This hurts what bo likes to call the "have nots". The have nots are people with limited supply of gear and funds. So by not having any kind of system like this we create haves and have nots. If you look at the current pvpers of siege bo would guess that more than 60% of them run stealth, and they equip to win. This combination of stealth and great gear usually insures a decent pvper of not dieing. Ask around Bo has been using this method for years.

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

What I've been telling is that stealth is op here, but it's old style.
As for mod spellbooks, aren't they to be held in hands to get bonuses from their mods?

 

[Tanivar]

And protecting PKer outfits and gear from loss, and then un-protectng non-PKer gear and items from loss, will certainly thin the population of Siege. Only PKer stuff will be safe.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Not sure I like the idea of un-paid insurance. Seems almost too easy. Now you wouldn't have naked thieves and pks at the banks...they would just build a single awesome suit and not have to worry about losing it if they die.

What if all armor (non-crafter made) was given the artifact property where it wears down quickly, even if you just wear it. Yes, you might have to replace them on a regular basis, but you could wear a less powerful item from a crafter that would last much longer?

I love the idea of crafter regaining some power on the shard. Needing to work with crafter instead of just farming would certainly be a plus for Siege...la

 

[FrejaSP]

I do like the idea, and as you say, "All soulstones, bank checks, spellbooks, runebooks, ethy mounts and charger's of the fallen remain blessed". I think, I can live with most deco stuff being unblessed, however I do think any kind of token and gift ticket should stay blessed, else trading at the banks will be a pain. I also think community items need to stay blessed for trading. BoDs I don't mind to see unblessed
I believe we should keep Siege Bless, else warrior will lose their weapons to easy, when disarmed or casting spells as it will unbless in backpack.

I do have a few issue, we need items to break again if not repaired before they go down to zero. I don't want players to run in same suit for years, there need to be business for the crafters.
I do like un-paid insurance, but items need to risk to break or lose mods when used.
I also think there need to be a delay of 5 min or so, after you res, to you can wear the suit again, but it would need to be blessed for this 5 min, else we will see res kill an looting.
An other way to solve that, could be 5 min temp stat loss, but that will be bad for tamers as they may have hard control their pet and someone with heavy warrior armor, may not be able to wear it and it will go unblessed in backpack.

Maybe give players an option choose between a blessed suit, that goes to bank if they die and their pet goes to stable or keep it as it is now, non blessed suit and pet, where suit drop on corpse and pet stay and maybe die.

I like the last option best.

 

[SpyderBite]

While it sounds good in theory; the truth is that the developers will never dedicate the time to programming such a system for Siege. Or any other similar system.

I think just adjusting the Siege Bless to work on anything worn/equipped would accomplish the same thing with very little programming involved and may be a little easier for the devs to swallow. Items worn/equipped would not fall into the backpack upon death and if they are removed or swapped, they are immediately unblessed.

Anyways, nice basis to think on Kat. Did I ever tell you you're my hero? XD

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

There's a good reason I will need a plenty of clothing bless deeds in future. Not a gameplay viable reason, but if they go away, I'm againsst this idea.

 

[ApollyonSP]

- All worn or equipped items are non-lootable.

Stopped reading right here, my answer is
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Trammy Carebears should just leave Siege Perilous. You don't really understand what the shard is about. If you have item insurance or blessed items then you may as well play on a trammy-carebear shard like Atlantic.

Go play there instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why are you here?!?!?

 

[Kat]

Also I need cbds for one reason, for use on nomod clothing, so it's a bad idea.

Right. So if a change affects YOU its a bad idea?

If you will take the time to read the details, you will see that ANY clothing being worn, including clothing with no mods, would not be lootable. There would be no need for CBD's.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Trammy Carebears should just leave Siege Perilous. You don't really understand what the shard is about.

Says the player who thinks holding a "my house is the prettiest in Luna" contest will solve the problem. Nice try...la

 

[Kat]

I think, I can live with most deco stuff being unblessed, however I do think any kind of token and gift ticket should stay blessed, else trading at the banks will be a pain.

Tokens and gift tickets could remain blessed, but the gifts, in my opinion, should not be blessed. I will add tokens and gift tickets to the blessed list.

You raise a good point about the warrior's weapon becoming unblessed when disarmed. That could be changed as well. Like I said, the idea isn't completely fleshed out. A change of this magnitude needs more than one brain considering all the ramifications, for sure! That is why I presented my idea here. I most definitely appreciate your thoughtfulness and input!

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

On a selfish note, I'd like to see containers stealable again ...la

 

[DJAd]

Says the player who thinks holding a "my house is the prettiest in Luna" contest will solve the problem. Nice try...la

LOL

 

[Kat]

Not sure I like the idea of un-paid insurance. Seems almost too easy. Now you wouldn't have naked thieves and pks at the banks...they would just build a single awesome suit and not have to worry about losing it if they die.

What if all armor (non-crafter made) was given the artifact property where it wears down quickly, even if you just wear it. Yes, you might have to replace them on a regular basis, but you could wear a less powerful item from a crafter that would last much longer?

I love the idea of crafter regaining some power on the shard. Needing to work with crafter instead of just farming would certainly be a plus for Siege...la

I agree that "unpaid insurance", alone, would be way too easy. That is why I included such a heafty tradeoff. And that tradeoff gives thieves a much needed boon!

 

[Kat]

On a selfish note, I'd like to see containers stealable again ...la

That could be a possibility. How would that work if the container were filled with blessed million dollar checks? When making a high dollar trade that cannot be placed on a vendor, I often put the checks in a bag for quicker/easier trading. Bag of unblessed items = stealable and bag of blessed items = not stealable? Or... do checks become unblessed when not in the first level of the player backpack? I believe that used to be the case, no?

 

[Kat]

While it sounds good in theory; the truth is that the developers will never dedicate the time to programming such a system for Siege. Or any other similar system.

I think just adjusting the Siege Bless to work on anything worn/equipped would accomplish the same thing with very little programming involved and may be a little easier for the devs to swallow. Items worn/equipped would not fall into the backpack upon death and if they are removed or swapped, they are immediately unblessed.

Anyways, nice basis to think on Kat. Did I ever tell you you're my hero? XD

I dunno, Spydie! Our history with this group of devs has been pretty decent. They might be willing to make some changes for us. Your idea about the Siege Bless working on all equipped items certainly has a lot of merit, though. That does seem easier for them to implement for us!

 

[Tanivar]

Trammy Carebears should just leave Siege Perilous. You don't really understand what the shard is about. If you have item insurance or blessed items then you may as well play on a trammy-carebear shard like Atlantic.

Go play there instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why are you here?!?!?

Getting to ask myself that more and more often these days as I read this Siege Forum.

For people who want more players on Siege, your sure focused on changes to drive players away.

 

[Kat]

Getting to ask myself that more and more often these days as I read this Siege Forum.

For people who want more players on Siege, your sure focused on changes to drive players away.

Siege needs more players and we have a consistent line of old Siege players who come back hoping that things have been fixed. Sadly, they are always sorely disappointed, as are MANY players from prodo shards who come here looking for what Siege used to be. This discussion is something that might be palatable for those who enjoy the Siege playstyle.

Siege is a special ruleset shard. It was never meant to be a safe haven. There are Trammel shards if you want that. I am not suggesting you go back there, we enjoy having you here, but coming here to repeatedly poopoo ideas you do not agree with is pointless. You've had your say and we heard you the first time.

 

[ApollyonSP]

Driver players away.........based on what? If you want to play with Atlantic ruleset, then GO THERE. Play there, not here.

That is not contrary to bringing in new players into SP on behalf of what SP stands for....which is the old ultima online FELUCCA ruleset.

You die, you lose everything.


And that has nothing to do with having a beautiful house.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

That could be a possibility. How would that work if the container were filled with blessed million dollar checks? When making a high dollar trade that cannot be placed on a vendor, I often put the checks in a bag for quicker/easier trading. Bag of unblessed items = stealable and bag of blessed items = not stealable? Or... do checks become unblessed when not in the first level of the player backpack? I believe that used to be the case, no?

That used to be fun. It's how I got my first black dye tub and potted plant. Or work your magic and get a player to place a few checks into a bag you hand them (oh and have it tagged as your "last item") then steal them before they know what hit them. *BLAMO*

Like I said...for selfish reasons ...la

 

[Arradin]

That could be a possibility. How would that work if the container were filled with blessed million dollar checks? When making a high dollar trade that cannot be placed on a vendor, I often put the checks in a bag for quicker/easier trading. Bag of unblessed items = stealable and bag of blessed items = not stealable? Or... do checks become unblessed when not in the first level of the player backpack? I believe that used to be the case, no?

Well, it used to be so that containers could be stolen regardless of what was in it, within the normal weight limitation to stealing - Ofcourse.

I didnt even notice they changed that after all years of playing UO because;

A) I don't play a thief
B) I learnt the hard way not to have valuable stuff on me in a bag, since then i have never had it.

 

[Tanivar]

.

Siege is a special ruleset shard. It was never meant to be a safe haven. There are Trammel shards if you want that. I am not suggesting you go back there, we enjoy having you here, but coming here to repeatedly poopoo ideas you do not agree with is pointless. You've had your say and we heard you the first time.

I was here because of that touch of danger away from prodo fel.

Disagreeing with ideas here is pointless, but I rather liked it here so disagreeing with not good ideas that would prevent the Siege population from growing seemed like the right thing to do. Look back over the years here, have the ideas you Vets routinely keep coming up with ever proven a success for growing Siege's population?

Repeating things is something that needs to be done when what your saying appears to be going in one ear and out the other. <shrugs>

I'm in the process of folding my tent here. I'll be out of you Vets hair and you can keep hoping the same ideas will get different results.

Good luck.

 

[Kat]

That used to be fun. It's how I got my first black dye tub and potted plant. Or work your magic and get a player to place a few checks into a bag you hand them (oh and have it tagged as your "last item") then steal them before they know what hit them. *BLAMO*

Like I said...for selfish reasons ...la

I'm not so sure your reason's are selfish. I don't like being stolen from or being killed, but I happen to also appreciate the dangers of Siege. It's why I play here. Playing in the bubble of complete safety doesn't appeal to me. As a guild leader, I have noticed that a good amount of new players like to create thief characters and the thieving profession definitely needs some love tossed their way! Thats why I used the unblessing of a good number of items as the tradeoff. I was looking for a way to alleviate a long term problem on Siege, yet still keep the danger of losing items on this shard. We would all be subject to losing items, not just a certain player base.

 

[Kat]

I was here because of that touch of danger away from prodo fel.

Disagreeing with ideas here is pointless, but I rather liked it here so disagreeing with not good ideas that would prevent the Siege population from growing seemed like the right thing to do. Look back over the years here, have the ideas you Vets routinely keep coming up with ever proven a success for growing Siege's population?

Repeating things is something that needs to be done when what your saying appears to be going in one ear and out the other. <shrugs>

I'm in the process of folding my tent here. I'll be out of you Vets hair and you can keep hoping the same ideas will get different results.

Good luck.

Thats just the thing, I do not believe my idea would prevent the Siege population from growing. I feel it would have quite the opposite affect as it alleviates a long standing problem on Siege. Siege was a very lively and prosperous shard back when people could easily re-equip after dying and losing their gear. I also think the changes are fair to everyone because no matter our playstyle, we all like to wear decent gear and we all have and could lose the items that would become unblessed. My solution doesn't excessivly favor any particular playstyle.

I feel the suggested changes could:

1. Bring old players back into the fold who left because of reasons I have discussed.
2. Bring in some prodo players who like the Siege/Fel ruleset, but also prefer "insurance".
3. Gives thieves some much needed love in a game where damn near everything is blessed.

 

[Troop_Gil]

Leave things as they are. Any attempt to fix anything will probably just screw it up further.

 

[Sprago]

So, I had a bit of an idea last night and I haven't quite fleshed it all out, but maybe we could do that together if the idea has any merit. Please bear with me while I go over some of my thoughts on this particular problem.


It has long been my opinion and I think a lot of you and also former Siege players agree that one of the primary problems with Siege has been that over the years, UO has become a very item based game. It started with AoS and grew from there year after year. The suits we put together can be very costly and certain items can be quite difficult to obtain and prodo shards have insurance to protect not only their gear, but pretty much any item they place in their backpacks. Basically EVERYTHING there can be protected from loss. If its not blessed, it can be insured. Plus, if they dont want to live in peril, they can stay in Trammel. We do not have such options. Here... People stop playing, stay in their houses or stealth everywhere. No bueno.

Siege wasn't designed to be played that way. Gameplay was fun back when it was cheap to equip yourself to PvP or Pvm and if you lost whatever battle you happened to be engaged in you went home, licked your wounds, re-equipped, went back out and proceeded to have fun again. The fun of the old days ended when equipping ourselves became heavily item based and suits became very expensive to replace. Pvper's took to house hiding and only coming out when they had larger numbers to PvP with to protect their assets. Faction buybacks became way too frustrating to deal with. Even PvMer's/PvEer's had the same issues. Many of those people took to hide/stealth to protect their gear. Many of the PvPer's left this shard in frustration. It was just too costly to re-equip and no one, no matter your playstyle, wants to farm for days on end and spend tons of time on acceptable replacement gear only to lose it again 10 minuts later. Yet, most of us still do not want insurance. It's too big a pill to swallow. It goes against the very nature of what Siege was meant to be, but... something has to be done. What, is the question of the day!

So the other day I mentioned in another thread that I wished the devs would just roll us back to a pre-AoS verson of Siege, but when I thought about that a little more seriously, I didn't think that was such a hot idea either. Yes, I would love to play a shard like that again, but I would miss all the things I love about the game today. Champ spawns, bosses in the Abyss and imbuing. Necromancy, ninja, busihido and chivalry skills, etc. So I started wondering what might alleviate some of the problems here on Siege and attract more players at the same time... and I came up with some ideas that might be a little more palatable to us.

My idea is similar to having insurance, but on a limited scale and there is a pretty big tradeoff on the flipside. Here is the basic idea:


- All worn or equipped items are non-lootable. They will basically act as if they are blessed, but without a blessed tag. These items include earrings, necklaces, full suit, clothing, shoes, books, sheilds and weapons. Esentially, anything worn or held in the hands.

- There is no gold cost involved. [See tradeoff below] This is not insurance. I haven't thought of a name for it yet. Help me out here!

- All soulstones, bank checks, spellbooks, runebooks, tokens/gift tickets ethy mounts and charger's of the fallen remain blessed.


The Tradeoff: [And this is going to be huge for Siege thieves!]

- ALL other blessed tags are removed from siege.

Just for clarification, this includes all other vet rewards [not listed above] that are not equipped, all gift items in our out of a bag or box, BOD's, commodity deeds and anything else the game automatically blesses.

- There is no insurance so no item equippable or not can ever be insured for protection.

- The Siege Bless function will be disabled.

- All items that are currently blessed with CBD's will be unblessed.

- CBD's will be removed from the tailoring reward list on Siege.




So the general idea is to get people playing again and not so afraid to leave their houses! Not just PvPer's, EVERYONE! Pvmer's, crafters, thieves, merchants! We all make this shard what it is and we need people to show up, be visible and play. We need to have fun again and not be so worried about losing million dollar suits. We need players, we need community, we need good guys and bad guys again. We need a little more danger in the land of peril! I think these changes, in combination, could give that back to us and... I think these changes, in combination, are also in keeping with the spirit of what is Siege Perilous.

Not only might this be more palatable to older Siege players, but could also draw players from other shards. Here, there will be no rez-killing padding the killer's bank account. The only cost for equipment is your initial cost and/or improvements.



This is the basic idea. It may need a little more fleshing out. Thoughts?

_____________________________________________________________________

***Edited to add/remove details ass needed.

Added that tokens/gift tickets should remain blessed

Removed that equipped items should become stealable. [Unfair to warriors who get disarmed]

Interesting thought and honestly i would agree with anything that helps siege and i could see how this would help but also see some downsides but if it brought people i would deal.

 

[Bo Bo]

not sure if someone mentioned this but the idea of things in your pack being unblessed while the things you wear are blessed is a bad idea. Here is why, Bo kills you, all your stuff is no in your back when you res. You res bo res kills you, all your loot is now bo's, maybe thats a good idea to get people to not res right infront of there killer. But that will drive people away.

Adding something like this doesnt in anyway take away from the risk of doing things. The risk is still there, Bo will still be lookin to kill you where you stand. That will not change, the difference is you will not lose that suit you worked so hard to obtain when the bo kills you. Than maybe you will just have a little less hate towards the Bo.

Bo also loves the idea of making things break. Bring back the old macing, this would make a skill that hasnt been used in years back to the forefront. Where macers would deal tons of damage to peoples armor and even break there armor pieces. Love it!!! and put stealth back to the 8 steps at 120 and have to wait to stealth another 8 for the skill timer.

 

[Kat]

not sure if someone mentioned this but the idea of things in your pack being unblessed while the things you wear are blessed is a bad idea. Here is why, Bo kills you, all your stuff is no in your back when you res. You res bo res kills you, all your loot is now bo's, maybe thats a good idea to get people to not res right infront of there killer. But that will drive people away.

Perhaps I worded it poorly. The intention of my idea is for anything that is equipped upon death to return safely to the players body when he retrieves his belongings. In other words, the equipped items would behave the way insured items do, instead of blessed items. I will correct the wording.

 

[Kael]

Says the player who thinks holding a "my house is the prettiest in Luna" contest will solve the problem. Nice try...la

hahahahahha

 

[Kael]

I was here because of that touch of danger away from prodo fel.

Disagreeing with ideas here is pointless, but I rather liked it here so disagreeing with not good ideas that would prevent the Siege population from growing seemed like the right thing to do. Look back over the years here, have the ideas you Vets routinely keep coming up with ever proven a success for growing Siege's population?

Repeating things is something that needs to be done when what your saying appears to be going in one ear and out the other. <shrugs>

I'm in the process of folding my tent here. I'll be out of you Vets hair and you can keep hoping the same ideas will get different results.

Good luck.

Have any idea's anyone has suggested changed the fact UO in general is dying on all shards?

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

Right. So if a change affects YOU its a bad idea?

If you will take the time to read the details, you will see that ANY clothing being worn, including clothing with no mods, would not be lootable. There would be no need for CBD's.

While this works partially, I need to make sure that this unmodded piece of clothing that is not a rare deco item and gives no advantage in the game whatsoever has ZERO possibility of getting into hands of other people unless given to them.
It won't affect anything, but I'm in a dire need of this. As I know, cbds already cannot bless anything of value or modded, so they don't impact the game much. Blessed artifact spellbooks do. Unblessed vet reward I think is no good. The vet reward is a personal thing, like a medal of honor, for being with UO for a notable amount of time. Imagine yourself being a WWII veteran. For the Victory Parade, you wear your old uniform and medals. You then go to a crowded bus to get to the parade, but when you get off, your medals have disappeared - they are stolen. And you earned this one for taking a control of Berlin! This is how you feel on losing vet reward items.

 

[HoldenCaulfield]

Not sure how one would handle the loopholes of a simple disarm special move (item now in ur pack) or templates that utilizing swapping different weapons in which we would hear the complaints of ill-timed kills.

IMHO - I think by the time the kinks got worked out, it would just be a very minor step-up from playing Felucca on a Trammel shard...

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Transitioning to siege I both agree with the post and disagree with some aspects.

First, its been impossibly slow setting my character up for pvp and I have been given more gifts, items, help then I could ever repay in a year of playing everyday. I am spending my time pvming, trying to gather items and ingredients and am totally miserable (I just don't enjoy pvm).

I am doing this for rp reasons and the people I have met along the way have made it worth the effort BUT I very much dislike taking from people and having no real means to reciprocate. I feel like a charity case and that feeling alone makes it hard to log in and play. I still play under the old adage "if you can't afford to lose it, don't go out and use it." I've been here putting things together on Siege since Nov and have yet to go out with the intention of pvping.

I like not having insurance and have always been against the idea...however the game has changed and as Kat says it is heavily item based but rather then changing Siege to allow people to keep items, I'd rather see crafters be able to make decent suits easily and cheaply - no ingredients for a low level imbued suit and just minor quantities for max stats. This reflects how fast and easy suits can be lost (and will be) if people are not afraid to lose them and how busy (and happy) crafters will be to be in demand but not required asking people to gather X items or getting themselves when RL doesn't allow hundreds of hours of game play.

The idea would be to create a decent imbued suit with the equivalent ease a grandmaster smith used to churn out Light Archer suits. Let people run around on decent suits with low cost of creating (still require high skill) while retaining Sieges's high risk of losing them. You could further risk running around on a higher quality suit with legendaries, reforged, artifacts and the like which would give people an advantage in battle but at high cost should they die.

There should also be a way to earn items through pvp (outside of ruining someones day and looting them "of that one item they thought they siege blessed", etc.). A 10,000 point VvV reward (NOT VvV artifacts) but "roll a legendary item" totally random jewel, armor, weapon as if you pvmed a high level monster. The amount of time to earn 10k VvV silver would take much longer then pvming for a single legendary (as it should be) but at least the pvper has the option to earn items through game play.

-Lore

 

[Kat]

While this works partially, I need to make sure that this unmodded piece of clothing that is not a rare deco item and gives no advantage in the game whatsoever has ZERO possibility of getting into hands of other people unless given to them.

Marisa - I do not know how to make it any more clear. ANY item that is being worn or equipped, mods or not, will be like having it insured. It will not be lootable.

Unblessed vet reward I think is no good. The vet reward is a personal thing, like a medal of honor, for being with UO for a notable amount of time. Imagine yourself being a WWII veteran. For the Victory Parade, you wear your old uniform and medals. You then go to a crowded bus to get to the parade, but when you get off, your medals have disappeared - they are stolen. And you earned this one for taking a control of Berlin! This is how you feel on losing vet reward items.

Any wearable vet reward would be protected as long as it is being worn. The rest would not be. Those should not really be at risk unless you are moving house or claim a reward in a public area.

And, as mentioned above, all soulstones, bank checks, spellbooks, runebooks, tokens/gift tickets ethy mounts and charger's of the fallen would remain blessed.

 

[Kat]

Not sure how one would handle the loopholes of a simple disarm special move (item now in ur pack) or templates that utilizing swapping different weapons in which we would hear the complaints of ill-timed kills.

IMHO - I think by the time the kinks got worked out, it would just be a very minor step-up from playing Felucca on a Trammel shard...

It's been handled. Check the end of my original post or re-read the details of the idea.

Also, FWIW, we are already playing a shard that is a very minor step-up from playing on a Trammel shard. I'm just trying to come up with a solution to one of the biggest problems with Siege since AoS was introduced and all the item based additions that have followed since. It may or may not be a solution, but its worth some discussion.

 

[Max Blackoak]

I'm not a fan of getting nay kind of insurance on Siege. However, I totally agree with everybody who complains that the game has become too item based (especially PvP) since AOS.
I have a different approach to the problem:

Let's make imbuing ingredients more easily available. Increase their drop rate drastically. This way people would still need to go out and farm them, but imbued suits would become a lot cheaper and crafter would actually get something to do again. Keep everything unblessed except for vet rewards and items without mods. Having these ingredients more readily available would create a similar situation as we had before AOS where you can simply afford loosing stuff because it doesn't take millions in gold our hours of farming to replace stuff.

Also from a coding point of view this might be a lot easier to implement since you didn't have to create a new system but merely adjust the ingredient and ressources drop rates.

How do you like that idea?

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

I don't know how lpto make it more clear - I need this purely cosmetic item of no monetary value to have ZERO chance of being lost, even if it is not worn, especially on res-kill situations, but not only them. ZERO, none, absolutely knot! It doesn't give any edge in any type of combat, it is not costly, can be gotten anywhere, it's just a stupid plain piece of cloth. Why are you so persistent on removing the cbds that can only bless that kind of clothing?

As for deco rewards, imaggine that you (WWII vet) have been rewarded with a bust of Stalin. You carry it to your old garden, but some bunch of youngsters knock you out and take it.

 

[Kat]

I'm not a fan of getting nay kind of insurance on Siege. However, I totally agree with everybody who complains that the game has become too item based (especially PvP) since AOS.
I have a different approach to the problem:

Let's make imbuing ingredients more easily available. Increase their drop rate drastically. This way people would still need to go out and farm them, but imbued suits would become a lot cheaper and crafter would actually get something to do again. Keep everything unblessed except for vet rewards and items without mods. Having these ingredients more readily available would create a similar situation as we had before AOS where you can simply afford loosing stuff because it doesn't take millions in gold our hours of farming to replace stuff.

Also from a coding point of view this might be a lot easier to implement since you didn't have to create a new system but merely adjust the ingredient and ressources drop rates.

How do you like that idea?

We have asked for similar changes in the past and those suggestions went completely ignored. We also asked for increased drops of the regular/cursed, major/minor, doom/tokuno artifacts, etc and nothing. All those ideas were well and good, but still, the process of collecting ingredients, any arties that might be required and then making the suit would still be a very tedious process. Take into consideration that you could walk 5 steps outside your house and lose that suit and its all time wasted and not much fun.

Trust me. I am no fan of prodo shard insurance at all. I can barely stomach my own version of it, but I think it's probably the best possible solution we have discussed so far. Remember back in the day when you died and your body decayed before you could get rez'd and recover your body? All you had to do was lick your wounds and head to the nearest player vendor, buy new armor, weapon, bandies, regs, whatever and get back to having fun. We need that again!

I think this version of "insurance" is a better idea than prodo insurance because 1. it removes the ongoing cost to the player, 2. there may be rez killing, but it won't reward the rez-killer by draining the victims account and 3. players cannot insure EVERYTHING in their backpack and risk nothing.

As far as I am concerned, we can totally forget the removal of blessed items and just go with the "Siege Gear Option" [because that's what I'm going to call it for now]. This game has changed too much for us to play Siege the way it was designed to be. All I am wanting to eliminate is the tediousness and frustration involved in losing gear on Siege... without prodo style insurance.

 

[Max Blackoak]

Remember back in the day when you died and your body decayed before you could get rez'd and recover your body? All you had to do was lick your wounds and head to the nearest player vendor, buy new armor, weapon, bandies, regs, whatever and get back to having fun. We need that again!

I couldn't agree more, but even back in the day you had to get the leather and ingots to craft the items needed. Keeping that in mind I still think incraesed drop rates for crafting materials would improve the situation. If people want to mix in legendary artifacts they sure can but risk loosing them, just like in the old days when you could use vanq weapons and invul armor. They gave an advantage but you could still compete with crafted stuff. I'm not saying your idea is stupid but I think there could be an easier way to improve the situation. Let's keep brainstorming and maybe we come to a point where we can actually present an elaborate suggestion the devs might pick up on.

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

To have ingots, hides and wood, one needs more res gatherers. To have more player vendors, one needs lower rental cost and more players.

 

[GarthGrey]

I'm not a fan of getting nay kind of insurance on Siege. However, I totally agree with everybody who complains that the game has become too item based (especially PvP) since AOS.
I have a different approach to the problem:

Let's make imbuing ingredients more easily available. Increase their drop rate drastically. This way people would still need to go out and farm them, but imbued suits would become a lot cheaper and crafter would actually get something to do again. Keep everything unblessed except for vet rewards and items without mods. Having these ingredients more readily available would create a similar situation as we had before AOS where you can simply afford loosing stuff because it doesn't take millions in gold our hours of farming to replace stuff.

Also from a coding point of view this might be a lot easier to implement since you didn't have to create a new system but merely adjust the ingredient and ressources drop rates.

How do you like that idea?

Since we don't even get double resources in felucca areas, I doubt we're going to see any assistance at all with drop rates from our Devs.

 

[FrejaSP]

I like not having insurance and have always been against the idea...however the game has changed and as Kat says it is heavily item based but rather then changing Siege to allow people to keep items, I'd rather see crafters be able to make decent suits easily and cheaply - no ingredients for a low level imbued suit and just minor quantities for max stats. This reflects how fast and easy suits can be lost (and will be) if people are not afraid to lose them and how busy (and happy) crafters will be to be in demand but not required asking people to gather X items or getting themselves when RL doesn't allow hundreds of hours of game play.

That is an other way to fix it, making it easier and cheaper to get a new suit, however, I do not agree with your way to do it.
As a crafter, I do have very hard finding time and energy to stock my vendors and the thing that annoy me most are the pain getting the resist right.
My idea here is to give some bones to Siege.

1. Changes basis resist on items, right now you get 15%, changes that to 30%, that will give better resist both on low end loot and on crafted stuff.
2. Changes Exceptional bonus, right now you get 15%, changes that to 30%, that will give better resist on crafted items.
Now with this changes, you would have 60% and could add 8% from Armslore and 10-17% from colored matrial bonus, all together, this should make it easy to make a 5x70 resist suit without imbuing, you would be able to buy a new piece of armor, if you lose one, just look for the mods and don't think of the resist, as most pieces will have the resist you need.
Now with no need to imbuing resist, we get a imbuing slot free and you can max out the suit without need for high end imbuing ingredients.

It will also allow tailors, smiths and carpenters to sell a 5x70 suit or armor pieces with min 12-13% resist in each piece, then the buyer can add the mods and resell it or use it him self. Now we will see non imbued 5x70 suits on vendors and we will see more imbued suits too as a player can make a business from hunt for ingredients to imbue suits he buy, he do not need to be a tailor, carpenter or smith.

With that fixed, we still have one issue, this small gems, we need a better drop of them, from mining, from monsters and from Treasure chests. I believe 2x resource drop like on normal shards fel will help a lot.

I do still like Kats idea but believe optional for the player to choose this new kind of "blessed" suits and let them go to bank on dead or choose it to be loot able and take the risk. That way new players could test out PvP without risk their suit, but they would have to visite the bank to get it back. Maybe let crafted items have 5 charges to be used for that, if worn or equipped when you die and it have charges left, it goes to bank.
When out of charges, you can buy a new suit and sell old one, to someone, who don't care about the risk.

I'm in the process of folding my tent here. I'll be out of you Vets hair and you can keep hoping the same ideas will get different results.
Good luck.

Instead of throw in the towel, you should tell how it would effect you as crafter. I have to agree with Kat, this is Siege and us Vets as you call us have given up a lot of old rules to get more players and this idea about having a blessed suit goes against the spirit of Siege but like with second house, we are ready to give up a lot to get more players but we still want it to be Siege, there is enough Trammel shards.

To me, it is important, that we have a mix of all playstyles, thives, murderes, PvP'ers, guardians, roleplayers, monster killers, crafters, gatherers, treasure hunters, fishers. shop owners, innkeepers. They all help to build the community we have.

Tanivar what is it you want from Siege, what made you try again here?

 

[FrejaSP]

Yes we need more stocked vendors, and Vendor fee should be lowered to 1%
Yes more resources would help but resources are not what stop me from stocking my vendor. In old days, I could login Tina Tink, she would mine a little and put a few suit on vendor and make a few weapons. Then I could login Freja and have fun with roleplaying an evil PvP'er.

Now I first have to make a suit, tailoring, then add resist with imbuing to get the resist right, then make different kind of suit, some with few mage mods, that sell cheap, some with better mod and/ or luck. I can't do that in an hour, it take several hours to stock my vendor.

I would like to stock some hats, with different mods and different style, all with min 5x13 resist, then the same with other armor pieces so players could put their suit together them self or buy a new hat if the old one was looted.

Also loot in a guild house, would be more useful, if we did not have to care about the resist.

Crafting had been a nightmare, in old days, it was relaxing to do a little mining and stock my vendor. Now it's something I avoid, if tired and stressed after work. No wonder it is hard to find stocked vendors if all have it like me.

 

[Tanivar]

Tanivar what is it you want from Siege, what made you try again here?

I want to run a shop. I came back to UO because I missed the crafting system which is what gave UO it's magic as a game for me from day one back in fall of 2000.

I set up on Siege again because of the added challenge and danger of the Fel rule system and the fact that my months here between leaving prodo and before leaving UO had been good. Saw nary any sign of Fel-like ashat PKers here during those months, but being as burned out on prodo as I had been I needed the vacation from UO.

My Fel experiences had been very bad the first couple of years I played and I've got a very nasty opinion of that
culture and playstyle, as I'm sure no one has missed. I don't want to see Siege move towards empowering the PKers by protecting their gear and unblessing and unprotecting so much of the non-PKers gear. We don't need to set up that situation here that drove so many players away that Origin had to create Trammel to keep it's paying customers. We want more players on Siege, not fewer.

Come up with ideas for changes that will draw people here, not just changes the PKers & Thieves will love except for the problem of not being able to find anyone to use those changes on.

 

[Bo Bo]

Tanivar you are forgetting one of the best things bout siege, 1 character per account. You dont get alot of that macho pk ******** here because of that. You are confusing your prodo experience with siege.

 

[FrejaSP]

Tanivar, I think you are missing one point about Siege. It's correct, Trammel was made for the players who could not play with the element of danger coming from dying to other players or be stolen from. Not all wanted to play in Trammel, we are a lot, who did enjoy UO before Trammel and we are not all PK's and thieves, but we do not enjoy Trammel and would had quit 15 years ago, if it had not been for Siege.
Siege was made for the players who loved UO back in the day and the first years of Siege, we did have a lot players and a lot of fun. I do not lie, when I tell you, half of the shard was red but we had different kind of reds, from very fun role players to the ones who did kill for loot and maybe for grief.
It was working, the blue PvP'ers and a lot of the reds did protect the miners, PvM'ers and crafter vs the not so nice reds. The vendors was stocked and dying was not a big problem, all was busy playing the game hours a day, that be with crafting, farming, gathering or fighting.

Then we got AoS and everything changed, it become harder to replace stuff and it become worse and worse. Now imbuing and new loot do help, but with so few players, items stay on vendors to long time and a we have a lot different kind of suits, not just, mage, archer and warrior suits.
It become expensive and very time eating to make a suit and that killed the game for all.

You want to run a shop and we need that. To a crafter, dying was never a big deal, as he easy can make a new suit. What kill crafting, it vendor fee, so you have hard finding vendors that sell that resource you need and if someone ask you to make a suit, you have to tell him, you need some mats, it will be expensive and it will take a half day. If you could sell him 5 of his favorite suit and it only would take you max an hour to make it and max cost him 50-100k each, depending of his need, I believe both him and you would be happy.

I do know, you have this old problem with reds and thieves. Fear is a very hard thing to handle. You need to get rid of that fear. You can easy replace your lose.

We all want more players, some more customers, some more enemies, some more to hunt with and some just more to chat with. This chat is a brain storming to find a way to keep Siege dangerous and fun but also keep our players. Show respect for others opinion and like you did in last post here, tell why you don't like it in a positive way.

I think you need a big , we need your shop.

 

[Bo Bo]

all this talk bout needing a vendor selling suits is bs, bo has had the same suits on Bo's vendor for the last month. No one has bought them. They are really good suits at a steal of a price, people make there own or have a guildie make them. Why pay for something when you can get it for free.