A fix for the 90 days cycle abuse

[Merlin]

You're butthurt that you don't have a bigger house. Period. Stop trying to dress it up as something more. There's no moral issue at stake, you don't have any magical business insights that EA has somehow missed for all these years, and EA certainly aren't babes in the woods who need you to protect them from exploitation. You're just butthurt.

I have no idea how you and Lucky type this stuff without feeling like idiots.

Please refrain from making this personal and throwing around insults. There is no need for that in this discussion.

Additionally, I have several nice houses already. This has nothing to do with my personal situation and everything to do with freeing up plots for players that will actually use them.

You don't even have access to the information it would take to have an informed opinion.

Respectfully, you don't either. Your opinion is no more high and mighty with the developers than my own.

 

[MalagAste]

Please refrain from making this personal and throwing around insults. There is no need for that in this discussion.

Additionally, I have several nice houses already. This has nothing to do with my personal situation and everything to do with freeing up plots for players that will actually use them.





Respectfully, you don't either. Your opinion is no more high and mighty with the developers than my own.

Should tell that to your mate Timberwolf who has done nothing but insult me. As for your argument some folk like their house... Honestly If I lost some of mine I've had for many, many years I am sure I'd be done.

You know this is just a cry about "I can't get the house I want on Atl." therefore I want to screw with accounts and ruin things for everyone else because I can't have my way..... and I can't place a castle or get a house in Luna on Atl..... listen bud.... I'm willing to bet that all the people who have those places pay for them monthly....

Any that don't are fools and will soon be parted from them because like everything else in this game playing roulette with you house on a regular basis WILL eventually lead to the loss of your house.. since whenever they jerk with the housing servers like they recently did it borks that... Which my guess is they do that regularly to F up the people that play roulette with housing.

And you call me a crybaby.

 

[Longtooths]

I have castles, ATL luna house, keeps etc. and i want it changed. I am reason your theory is bunk.

 

[Merlin]

You know this is just a cry about "I can't get the house I want on Atl." therefore I want to screw with accounts and ruin things for everyone else because I can't have my way..... and I can't place a castle or get a house in Luna on Atl..... listen bud.... I'm willing to bet that all the people who have those places pay for them monthly....

To be honest, I didn't care about this issue at all until someone who played the 90-day roulette regularly for multiple accounts had the gall to come here on Stratics and complain when they got burned on it and tried to blame the developers for their woes.

Again, this has nothing to do with "getting a castle". I doubt many castles would even come up as available on ATL if I had my way with ending the 90-day roulette, and the ones that did would likely be gobbled up by scripters. As you noted, anyone with an ATL Castle likely has the brains to be paying the accounts on-time. Furthermore, I have a Fel Keep, a Trammel house in the UWF township and an 18x18 outside Luna that I share with my sister and it's way more than enough for me. I am GOD AWFUL at decorating and don't care much for hoarding pixel crack. This has everything to do with opening up housing plots to people who will actually pay on a regular basis... as well as my own vanity of seeing a process I personally consider to be financially dishonest be put to rest.

 

[Giggles]

I feel it necessary to remind everyone to try and keep this thread on topic, so we can productively continue the discussion. Making this topic personal towards yourself and other posters is unnecessary.
Thank you =)

 

[Longtooths]

There is only one person in the four pages of this thread that lacks the intelligence and maturity to debate. Instead, they rely on bullying and disparaging people.

@Giggles,

Instead of chastising the entire thread, remove the one bad apple.

 

[Merlin]

Let's all take a deep breath. This topic causes much emotion with good reason - it affects peoples accounts and more specifically, their wallets. No one likes change and some of the suggestions here would change play-style (and pay-style) drastically.

 

[Spock's Beard]

Additionally, I have several nice houses already. This has nothing to do with my personal situation and everything to do with freeing up plots for players that will actually use them.

Yeah you just saw poor little EA being exploited by wicked players and their sinister plan of "pay the money it costs to get what we want" and had to step in. Because if there's one thing we know about EA, it's that they're a bunch of fluffy kittens who don't know how to properly monetize a game and are always being taken advantage of by the ruthless public.

Boy they sure are lucky that you came along in 2016 and found this horrible flaw in their system that no one at EA ever noticed in the last 10 or 12 years. You're a real hero.

Respectfully, you don't either. Your opinion is no more high and mighty with the developers than my own.

You're the one arguing that something should change. Since you admit you don't actually have any information to base that opinion on... thread over, I guess? Thanks for playing.

 

[FrejaSP]

So while you think that it won't effect anything it will... paying 3 times a year for that nostalgia is something many are still willing to do.... but having to pay full cost all the time to hold onto memories.... most won't. And like I said once that's gone.... they won't return either.

It is still cheating, they steal for ful time paying customers. Want to keep your pixes memories, save them in one house and pay for that one full time.
I had seen many come back and start over, they do fine. I lost several houses back in the refresh days, I survived fine, sometimes it even can be releasing to start over without all your crap.

 

[Spock's Beard]

It is still cheating, they steal for ful time paying customers. Want to keep your pixes memories, save them in one house and pay for that one full time.

Paying EA the money they ask for and receiving the benefits they sell for that price isn't "stealing" from anyone, no matter how much you don't like it. Nobody owes you an explanation or a justification for anything they do.

You can take it up with EA if it bothers you so much, but the fact that this policy has been in place for like 12 years and none of the billion different dev teams we've had has ever felt like changing it tells me that the financial/subscriber math must support it pretty solidly.

Oh and for the record, I own one solitary account, play Atlantic, and live in a 7x7 because I love the location. I have absolutely no dog in this fight. I just think it's absolutely asinine to see you people try to gin up some kind of sudden moral controversy about a rule that's been in place for a majority of the game's existence now.

 

[MalagAste]

Paying EA the money they ask for and receiving the benefits they sell for that price isn't "stealing" from anyone, no matter how much you don't like it. Nobody owes you an explanation or a justification for anything they do.

You can take it up with EA if it bothers you so much, but the fact that this policy has been in place for like 12 years and none of the billion different dev teams we've had has ever felt like changing it tells me that the financial/subscriber math must support it pretty solidly.

Oh and for the record, I own one solitary account, play Atlantic, and live in a 7x7 because I love the location. I have absolutely no dog in this fight. I just think it's absolutely asinine to see you people try to gin up some kind of sudden moral controversy about a rule that's been in place for a majority of the game's existence now.

I have a lot of accounts and I pay them all every month... I've NEVER played the roulette game with my accounts and I don't intend to ever start doing it..... but like Spock said it's been this way for years... and I see no reason to rock the boat. IMO it's just another way to piss off players and make them quit... and it's not worth it... because it's going to burn someone really bad who does normally always pay.... and when that happens we ALL lose.

 

[Fridgster]

In response to those claiming it takes away housing from others I would like to point out that claiming it takes away housing from others is misleading. With the exception of atlantic most shards have housing spots for large towers or larger (yes some shards have castle spots). Even atlantic has spots for homes just not the top end/prime locations. To me it sounds like a lot of folks butt hurt because they cant have something that someine else has. Its obviously not an exploit if EA is the one that allows it. Oh and @TimberWolf bloody low lifes? Overreact much? If you start stomping your feet i might mistake you for a 2 year old not getting their way.

 

[OREOGL]

Yeah you just saw poor little EA being exploited by wicked players and their sinister plan of "pay the money it costs to get what we want" and had to step in. Because if there's one thing we know about EA, it's that they're a bunch of fluffy kittens who don't know how to properly monetize a game and are always being taken advantage of by the ruthless public.

Boy they sure are lucky that you came along in 2016 and found this horrible flaw in their system that no one at EA ever noticed in the last 10 or 12 years. You're a real hero.



You're the one arguing that something should change. Since you admit you don't actually have any information to base that opinion on... thread over, I guess? Thanks for playing.

Just curious, and don't take this as an attack, but are you using the 90 day cycle?

You seem pretty guarded about changing this is why I ask.

I get people using them, and I don't get the Iraq theory behind the 90 day timer. (I don't know if any three month deployments or credit cards automatically shutting off as soon as they deploy.)

As far as someone mentioning opening plots of land, I think this may only benefit Atlantic as the other shards are already pretty spacious.

 

[TimberWolf]

In response to those claiming it takes away housing from others I would like to point out that claiming it takes away housing from others is misleading. With the exception of atlantic most shards have housing spots for large towers or larger (yes some shards have castle spots). Even atlantic has spots for homes just not the top end/prime locations. To me it sounds like a lot of folks butt hurt because they cant have something that someine else has. Its obviously not an exploit if EA is the one that allows it. Oh and @TimberWolf bloody low lifes? Overreact much? If you start stomping your feet i might mistake you for a 2 year old not getting their way.

It is obviously not an exploit because EA does nothing about it? ....Is duping gold checks an exploit??? I dont see EA doing much about companies that dupe and sell billions in gold every weekend but no one would deny it is effecting the game...so that argument doesnt hold up.

My comment about bloody lowlifes.. was a wise crack about people who pull wings off flies...it was a smart ass joke ( talk about overreacting much???)
For the record I have 2 keeps on two different shards...and I can have a castle any day I want. I have owned them before and literally given them away. I dont see this as "just an Alt issue"

I see this as people exploiting a system, not designed to be used by them, so that they can have 4 different houses on 4 different accounts and pay the equivalent of 1 annual account subscription fee. It is stealing and cheating and it is wrong....period. And just because some people think they are entitled to exploit a system cause "the rules dont apply to them".. they are wrong...and eventually this exploit will get changed if enough people complain about it.

And trust me I was somone that spent most of the 90's deployed all over the world....in the 90's people didnt typically connect their credit card for a monthly fee. Most bought game time codes through services like paypal because it was seen as safer to do it that way. And it use to take well over a month to add money to your paypal account from your bank at times. I also know it would often take 90 days to get snail mail rerouted from North America. Now deployed service members have cell phones and global internet providers and secure email accounts etc. but back in the 90's and the beginning of this millennium we werent so connected.

1995-96 for example 500 American, Canadian, and Bangladeshi soldiers shared 1 email address in Haiti. Family wanting to send you an email had to put your name and serial number in the subject line. Each day some poor Private would print and sort out every email and then deliver those to each unit commander. Then each service member would wait in line to send an email reply from the one computer that was allowed to be connected to the net for general use. Why am I telling you all this???

Because when a company like EA stepped up and changed a billing system as an expression of appreciation for our service members it was a big deal. It was greatly appreciated. And yes it makes me sick to see people exploiting a system 12 years later that wasnt designed for them because they feel entitled to do it!

Ya Ya I know it is a game...it is pixel crack and it doesnt really matter. But what does mater is the fact that for some of us....if you exploit a system designed for service members serving overseas then you are exploiting them....

 

[JC the Builder]

Is it really abusing the system when it was designed to work this way? When this was all announced I'm sure people pointed out and the developers knew that this could be done.

And I don't ever recall a developer stating this is not how they intended it to work. This is how it has been for almost 15 years. If it was not intended then they would have done something about it by now. This is not to say they won't change their stance in the future.

 

[TimberWolf]

Is it really abusing the system when it was designed to work this way? When this was all announced I'm sure people pointed out and the developers knew that this could be done.

And I don't ever recall a developer stating this is not how they intended it to work.

So you are suggesting they intended the system to be used to have 4 accounts with 4 houses and pay for a single account for years and years and years???

 

[JC the Builder]

Well, the original system allowed an account an unlimited number of houses. Then they made it one house per character. Then it was one house per shard. Then finally one house per account.

Only the development team knows whether they intend it to work like this or not. They may never say so.

You can certainly say you don't like how it works. But after 15 years of it being this way it is a stretch to call it abuse or exploiting.

 

[OREOGL]

It is obviously not an exploit because EA does nothing about it? ....Is duping gold checks an exploit??? I dont see EA doing much about companies that dupe and sell billions in gold every weekend but no one would deny it is effecting the game...so that argument doesnt hold up.

My comment about bloody lowlifes.. was a wise crack about people who pull wings off flies...it was a smart ass joke ( talk about overreacting much???)
For the record I have 2 keeps on two different shards...and I can have a castle any day I want. I have owned them before and literally given them away. I dont see this as "just an Alt issue"

I see this as people exploiting a system, not designed to be used by them, so that they can have 4 different houses on 4 different accounts and pay the equivalent of 1 annual account subscription fee. It is stealing and cheating and it is wrong....period. And just because some people think they are entitled to exploit a system cause "the rules dont apply to them".. they are wrong...and eventually this exploit will get changed if enough people complain about it.

And trust me I was somone that spent most of the 90's deployed all over the world....in the 90's people didnt typically connect their credit card for a monthly fee. Most bought game time codes through services like paypal because it was seen as safer to do it that way. And it use to take well over a month to add money to your paypal account from your bank at times. I also know it would often take 90 days to get snail mail rerouted from North America. Now deployed service members have cell phones and global internet providers and secure email accounts etc. but back in the 90's and the beginning of this millennium we werent so connected.

1995-96 for example 500 American, Canadian, and Bangladeshi soldiers shared 1 email address in Haiti. Family wanting to send you an email had to put your name and serial number in the subject line. Each day some poor Private would print and sort out every email and then deliver those to each unit commander. Then each service member would wait in line to send an email reply from the one computer that was allowed to be connected to the net for general use. Why am I telling you all this???

Because when a company like EA stepped up and changed a billing system as an expression of appreciation for our service members it was a big deal. It was greatly appreciated. And yes it makes me sick to see people exploiting a system 12 years later that wasnt designed for them because they feel entitled to do it!

Ya Ya I know it is a game...it is pixel crack and it doesnt really matter. But what does mater is the fact that for some of us....if you exploit a system designed for service members serving overseas then you are exploiting them....

I'd like to examine your 90s references a little further.

In the gaming world I'm not aware of any MMORPGs that occurred prior to UO, and I'm not including MUDs in this statement. This includes game time codes etc.

So if 90 day cycle is 15 years 2000-2001, it pretty much makes the rest of it moot doesn't it?

You'll have to excuse me, perhaps I'm just not connecting the reference you're referring to.

 

[TimberWolf]

JC, anytime a systems is used in a manner or for a purpose other then what it was strictly designed for is by definition an exploit.
The fact that it has been being exploited for years and years and to an extent that people actually claim this is their "Right" and if it were changed they would quit is an entirely different issue.

OreoGL I retired in 1999 so the reference I gave was from 1995 since that was what my experience was , and the time period was consistent with services available for service people 5-6 years later There were a lot of gaming services that were online in early and 90's and beyond other then MMORPGs that required a monthly service fee. But yes UO was the first MMORPG and the first to extend a special service to Military members.
The history of EA and UO is something that can be easily researched if you are interested.

 

[WootSauce]

I don't believe that this was ever put in place with military deployments in mind, but would love to see some reference that would confirm that.

This thread from UO guide from 2006 sheds a little light on the state of this very topic a decade ago:

Inactive Account Housing Grace Period to Change to 30 Days - UO General Discussions

There were certainly a number of people in that thread who were concerned about deployed military getting "screwed" by this change. After further searching around on this topic, it appears that this switch from 90 to 30 days in 2006 was never implemented, even though it was announced (again, probably someone did some harder analysis on some numbers...).

Interesting quote from the thread from Draconi and Mr. Tact, which I believe that the poster took from an HOC meeting (can't find any other reference to it myself)

Player: I can't imagine what other thing this would mean than they are scraping for coin.

Draconi: Ah, and here I was sure you had a stronger imagination than that! At least it beats the original 10 days we used to have. It was set to 90 days after all the confusion with the original IDOC fixes.

MrTact: It's not like the old days where you had to physically login to refresh your house. This means, 30 days *after you stop paying us* your house goes away. The main reason why we're doing this? Well, back in the day, when we originally changed to 90 days, I remember someone . . . let's see, who would that have been . . . oh yeah, ME . . . complaining internally that people would use this to "kite" and only keep their account active 1 month out of 3 to hold houses. Well, guess what's happening? Essentially, we're sick of seeing house signs with ICQ numbers on them. If you want to be a house broker, fine, but now you're going to have to keep your account up to date.

Again, a change to this system would not be of any concern to me, however I do have strong opinions about characterizing people who do take advantage this rule as somehow "exploiting" EA, or "the same type that park in handicap parking spots and steal from charities", or using a system that was only supposed to be in place for military members. I think those kind of statements are a stretch and an attempt to manufacture outrage.

 

[JC the Builder]

JC, anytime a systems is used in a manner or for a purpose other then what it was strictly designed for is by definition an exploit.

You can't call this an exploit. The system says a house begins to decay after 90 days. It is not against the design to lapse an account for two months and resub again.

All signs point to this being acceptable to the development team. The fact that a house does not decay the moment an account goes inactive. The fact it has been unchanged in 15 years. The fact that there is no other preventative measures in place such as checking how often an account goes inactive.

You can say all you want how you don't like the way it is. But it is crossing the line to say people who do this are exploiting.

old town hall comments

There you have it, straight from the developers themselves. They knew it would happen but decided it was acceptable. They were going to change it but did not.

 

[It Lives]

And They could change it at any time, probably smart of them to do so to get any kind of return or to keep it going.

 

[Tina Small]

Maybe the people who are complaining are just secretly jealous that the people who regularly close their accounts and then reopen them are getting too many opportunities to send feedback about UO to EA and/or Broadsword via the form that pops up in the account management site after you close an account.

 

[omukai]

This whole topic is strange.

People get to use more than one house and keep them, and on a discount. In a game that only has few players and most of them on the same shard, because you have supply for what you need when other players are around and, of course, because humans are flocking together.

I moved to Pacific from Atlantic, after having searched for a good spot to place a house for quite some time. I'd have loved to get one on Tokuno, but eventually settled down to a house in the Yew/Trammel area now. The spot I have there is being held on ATL by someone who might not even play. I certainly never met someone there.

Not everyone is willing to switch to a less populated server like me though. Many might just quit silently and move on.

Ultima Online is not an immortal game, even if people might believe so, since it's survived the ages. There are now game projects out there very similar to UO and one might even make it (I pledged for that one but won't mention its name - no, not Richard Garriott's awful attempt), but isn't quite in the state yet where I'd make the switch. With nothing to hold me here, why would I continue playing UO as soon as that other game comes out?

Like someone above already stated, housing might keep you attached to the game long after you beat the last champ with your last maxed out char and all your friends have long gone.

 

[OREOGL]

JC, anytime a systems is used in a manner or for a purpose other then what it was strictly designed for is by definition an exploit.
The fact that it has been being exploited for years and years and to an extent that people actually claim this is their "Right" and if it were changed they would quit is an entirely different issue.

OreoGL I retired in 1999 so the reference I gave was from 1995 since that was what my experience was , and the time period was consistent with services available for service people 5-6 years later There were a lot of gaming services that were online in early and 90's and beyond other then MMORPGs that required a monthly service fee. But yes UO was the first MMORPG and the first to extend a special service to Military members.
The history of EA and UO is something that can be easily researched if you are interested.

On the contrary the information for the 90 day implementation is scarcely available.

The one article I found refers to going to 90 days on January 27th, 2004 and cited it as a change for all of the players.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Personally I'm tired of EA shutting down my games lol. The very moment EA doesn't make a nice coin UO is done and dead. Stealing from EA with this exploit will end this game far sooner than it should have, I was there when EA killed Gamestorm, Legends of Kesmai, Motor City Online, Earth and Beyond, and I'm sure there's more not coming to mind. I'm tired of it. There's seriously no other game I'm really interested in out there. This is all I got left, lol. SOTA isn't even a MMO is my opinion. I'm not sure if Star Citizen is vaporware or not lol. UO might be all I have. Ending the 90 day thing is just too logical to ignore. EA/BS will make more cash (if they don't crumble during the initial back lash), anything over 30 days is completely overly generous (or insane lol) IMHO, it's a slap in the face to the full time subscriptions that keep the lights burning in UO. Really the only real argument I've head is well they've ignored it forever. Well much like bugs, they may be around forever, but sooner of later it's time to pull out the fly swatter.

I see fairness to the full time subscribers as a big factor. I also know UO could use the revenue. You want a major discount pay for 6 months at a time. People can come up with 10 bucks a month. I mean really, lol. If you can't come up with 10 or 20 extra bucks a month to pay for UO and you need me to subsidize your UO house and junk hoarding? I think maybe you should be dropping the internet entirely and going to college night classes or something, lol. It seems in this country these days no one wants to work for things and earn things, they like standing around with their hand out wanting something for nothing. People want an easy life? Earn your money, work hard, pay your bills, don't ever expect anyone to help you. Living the life waiting for Santa to keep dropping free stuff on you is not a way to go, lol. But I'm seriously tired of people playing big shot with 10 houses on my dime. I can type a spread sheet out as well as anyone. What keeps the rest of us from just saying screw it? I'll pay for one month and get three free too! Other than having an ounce of integrity. See how long the game lasts when that happens. *SMH*

 

[Capt. Lucky]

To be honest, I didn't care about this issue at all until someone who played the 90-day roulette regularly for multiple accounts had the gall to come here on Stratics and complain when they got burned on it and tried to blame the developers for their woes.

Again, this has nothing to do with "getting a castle". I doubt many castles would even come up as available on ATL if I had my way with ending the 90-day roulette, and the ones that did would likely be gobbled up by scripters. As you noted, anyone with an ATL Castle likely has the brains to be paying the accounts on-time. Furthermore, I have a Fel Keep, a Trammel house in the UWF township and an 18x18 outside Luna that I share with my sister and it's way more than enough for me. I am GOD AWFUL at decorating and don't care much for hoarding pixel crack. This has everything to do with opening up housing plots to people who will actually pay on a regular basis... as well as my own vanity of seeing a process I personally consider to be financially dishonest be put to rest.

That incident came to mind with me also. They came here starting a big hoopla saying houses were dropping for no reason and all sorts of nonsense. That's what really got people thinking about this and some people thinking about abusing it. There are current events that have thrust this issue into the spot light. When that happens people jump on the exploit wagon hard and fast. UO was getting a black eye from that and even Mesanna had to come to these boards and give the straight story. Many of you folks got years and years of free play time. Hardly something to cry about.

 

[The Craftsman]

Ending the 90 day thing is just too logical to ignore. EA/BS will make more cash

How do you know? Completely off the top of your head and you have no information, evidence or facts to back that up.

Id say based on EA's track record of turning a blind eye to anything that will cost them subscriptions (such as blatently ignoring dupers, hackers, botters etc as banning them all would hit the EA coffers) then its far far more likely that EA are fully aware of this situation and do nothing as they know damn well it would cost them money, not make it as you blindly suggest.

 

[omukai]

Things that are not healthy for the game cost players in the long run (while keeping exploiters in).
Make enough of those bad decisions and the game population shrinks below the point where the game is feasible.

 

[The Craftsman]

Things that are not healthy for the game cost players in the long run (while keeping exploiters in).
Make enough of those bad decisions and the game population shrinks below the point where the game is feasible.

The game may have already reached that point. It just might be the 90 day crowd who are keeping it alive ... who knows what percentage of UO's income that accounts for. It may be far far more than you think.

 

[OREOGL]

The game may have already reached that point. It just might be the 90 day crowd who are keeping it alive ... who knows what percentage of UO's income that accounts for. It may be far far more than you think.

You don't earn income on inactive accounts.

The 90 dayers would have to close all accounts before it would hold an impact.

And let's face it, if they're willing to do that either they're not going to quit or aren't paying that much to begin with.

An argument could be had for losing 13.99 every three months but I'm guessing this isn't keeping UO afloat.

 

[omukai]

Maybe they don't keep it alive for the profits, but for the prestige that comes with running a legend like UO.
It's the oldest sandbox MMO around.
Same with DAoC, it's the oldest PVP-centric MMO.
Both don't really live up to their heydays, but even back then, they didn't have that many subscriptions in total - just relatively, as MMOs weren't that popular yet.

It would be good for the game anyways, as it'd cure the "no room to place a house" problem, revive neighborhoods and maybe player run towns. How much space is taken up by old buildings only being kept because it's so cheap?
I have no problem paying for my 1 account, I could keep 4 alive with that money and wouldn't really notice it. Only that I could block a couple of great spots with that discount price.

And that's not good for the game, because players are more attached to the game when they have stuff to lose. Not only "epix" that are outdated after some time anyways, but timeless things like houses.

I'm not sure UO would see a surge of new players only because of this these days anymore. It's too little too late. But it would animate some players to pay full time and new players to stay.

I'd probably keep my account active even after I switched to UO's successor full-time in a few months.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

How do you know? Completely off the top of your head and you have no information, evidence or facts to back that up.

Id say based on EA's track record of turning a blind eye to anything that will cost them subscriptions (such as blatently ignoring dupers, hackers, botters etc as banning them all would hit the EA coffers) then its far far more likely that EA are fully aware of this situation and do nothing as they know damn well it would cost them money, not make it as you blindly suggest.

I can look at a cow. I can say "Hey that's a cow!". Can I prove it? No. I'd have to take DNA to a lab, get some qualified experts, etc. But hey, I know that's a cow. It's reasonable to assume 1 in 4 people will pony up to keep prime house spots and places to hoard their junk they've been collecting for 20 years. At a bare minimum. It's a very safe bet I'd put money on. Saying EA/BS embraces hackers and exploiters is something I've never read on UO.com At least you compare this to being the exploit it is. Someone bring up the pics of those burning houses please? What I see happening is maybe some people would drop their accounts for 29 days to try and scare BS into reversing this. Then watch them all pour back in. In droves. I just hope I can secure some of those sweet spots with my new full time accounts me and others will be opening to grab them The moment this gets fixed I'll have a new account with a house placement tool in my pack. Bet on it.

 

[The Craftsman]

The moment this gets fixed I'll have a new account with a house placement tool in my pack. Bet on it.

This wont get 'fixed'. Bet on it.

 

[Spock's Beard]

Just curious, and don't take this as an attack, but are you using the 90 day cycle?

Nope. I only own one account and live in a 7x7 in a location I love, but which nobody else cares about thanks to all the spawn. I could pack a few things into my bank, drop the house, quit for six months, and in all likelihood just put everything right back in the same place when I returned. I'm only arguing here because the arguments being used drive me bonkers on an instinctual level.

So you are suggesting they intended the system to be used to have 4 accounts with 4 houses and pay for a single account for years and years and years???

YES. OBVIOUSLY. Based on the fact that it's been this way forever and nobody who draws a paycheck from the game has bothered to change it. The idea that everyone who has worked on this game over the years, people with access to actual hard financial data, need YOU to come along and tell them they've been "exploited" is truly, deeply, stunningly asinine.

Like what do you think is going on? Do you think they just DIDN'T KNOW about the 90 day shuffle? Until right now, 2016, when you posted this thread and told them about it? Ridiculous.

Personally I'm tired of EA shutting down my games lol. The very moment EA doesn't make a nice coin UO is done and dead. Stealing from EA with this exploit will end this game far sooner than it should have,

Everyone who has worked on the game and looked at the actual subscriber stats over the years apparently disagrees with you. But hey if there's one thing EA doesn't know about, it's bean counting, right? They probably totally need some random doofus on Stratics to tell them they've been doing it wrong for 10+ years and just never noticed. Hurr.

God this thread is giving me a headache.

 

[TimberWolf]

This wont get 'fixed'. Bet on it.

I will take that bet

 

[Angel of Sonoma]

Dont worry, I'm poor too.

Seriously doing the events, even once a month on your home shard. Do them every month. Couple hours a month and they're fun too! Take you places you might never have been too. Get that one rare drop, sell it for 50 or 75 mill and your on your way! Not nearly as hard as hitting the lottery

That would be awesome!! I'll certainly have to try that out, thanks!

i can't resist because i find this hilarious. since when @Longtooths are you poor or need advice about EM events? you are too funny!

 

[Longtooths]

i can't resist because i find this hilarious. since when @Longtooths are you poor or need advice about EM events? you are too funny!

Well I didn't want to be rude foo!

 

[Kayhynn]

I'll be perfectly honest - until the billing system is fixed and working properly, I won't support any change to the system.

If you don't think the billing system isn't broke, then you haven't been paying attention.

 

[Spock's Beard]

I will take that bet

Yeah because nobody at EA ever realized they were being "exploited" for the last 12 years until TimberWolf made a post on Stratics about it in 2016. He's such a hero and he knows so much more about the UO financial situation than all those dumb EA people with their "actual financial data" who have been happy to leave this system in place this whole time.

Hahahahaha. Get real. Why don't you pick a date you expect this to be changed by, and we'll make a ban bet about it? If this system is still in place when the date hits, you never post again. If it is changed, I never post again. C'mon wiseguy, show me how confident you are that all three of you have changed the world with this crappy thread.

 

[Giggles]

I feel 90 days is also a bit excessive, however, I am not in active military service, I do not actively travel, nor do I have a hectic life that makes paying for Ultima Online monthly impossible.
I feel 90 days was added as a cushion to help people retain their belongings, in the event of some sort of rl chaos that may prevent them from promptly making a payment.
The devs do know about this formula and system, Bleak himself mentioned it here

There will also be people who take advantage of ANY system. I don't feel that housing is such a crisis in UO, where it is necessary to make houses fall immediately after the first payment is missed. Some systems should accommodate people from all walks of life, regardless of the penny pincers who choose to exploit it.
UO is a very item and community driven game. And pretty much the only game where you can lose almost everything soon after you stop paying. In WoW and other games I can stay inactive for years, and still have everything I worked for when I left. Well, except for probably needing to level and gain new stuff lol.

Anyways, I see both sides, but I feel this system should be left alone.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[TimberWolf]

Yeah because nobody at EA ever realized they were being "exploited" for the last 12 years until TimberWolf made a post on Stratics about it in 2016. He's such a hero and he knows so much more about the UO financial situation than all those dumb EA people with their "actual financial data" who have been happy to leave this system in place this whole time.

Hahahahaha. Get real. Why don't you pick a date you expect this to be changed by, and we'll make a ban bet about it? If this system is still in place when the date hits, you never post again. If it is changed, I never post again. C'mon wiseguy, show me how confident you are that all three of you have changed the world with this crappy thread.

I would gladly do this with you but you would just start a new account named "dickless wonder" or some other cool handle and keep posting because we both know your other bans worked so well

 

[WootSauce]

Please refrain from making this personal and throwing around insults. There is no need for that in this discussion.

Additionally, I have several nice houses already. This has nothing to do with my personal situation and everything to do with freeing up plots for players that will actually use them.
Respectfully, you don't either. Your opinion is no more high and mighty with the developers than my own.

I would gladly do this with you but you would just start a new account named "dickless wonder" or some other cool handle and keep posting because we both know your other bans worked so well

So yeah... admittedly, my earlier posts are incendiary and non constructive... but can we keep it civil going forward? I honestly am not sure that we can. Merlin did become a mod somewhere in between the start of this thread and now

 

[MissEcho]

Money. Simple as that. You can argue the toss about 'proof' all you like but this is just a blatant source of income to EA. Yes sure rules change, from time to time but EA arent that stupid to throw guaranteed revenue away. They will know exactly how many accounts are on the 90 day shuffle. Its probably way more than we imagine.

If I had to hazard a guess on my shard I reckon at least 50% of houses were in this shuffle and I suspect that if they 'lifted' it so that the shufflers had to pay full price for what is basically 'house holding' then 90% of those would just close their accounts. In all honesty it might be as many as 70% of the houses on the shard.

 

[TimberWolf]

what did I say that wasnt civil?

 

[WootSauce]

what did I say that wasnt civil?

I would go with all of the below being uncivil. If you want me to go back to each post and quote it, I can, but this about sums it up.

characterizing people who do take advantage this rule as somehow "exploiting" EA, or "the same type that park in handicap parking spots and steal from charities", or using a system that was only supposed to be in place for military members.

All of this is pretty much uncivil, unless you have facts that the company thinks otherwise.

 

[WootSauce]

Wild Accusations on your part Timber Wolf, honestly.

 

[TimberWolf]

I would go with all of the below being uncivil. If you want me to go back to each post and quote it, I can, but this about sums it up.

characterizing people who do take advantage this rule as somehow "exploiting" EA, or "the same type that park in handicap parking spots and steal from charities", or using a system that was only supposed to be in place for military members.

Hardly classifies as being uncivil..... it is an opinion. Some people agree with the opinion, some disagree with it, but it is hardly uncivil. This isnt a church group it's a game forum. And those statements exactly sum up how I feel about people who exploit a system in the manner I have referred to. I think this thread displays the dissatisfaction of many gamers about this behavior. My personal belief is that this will be changed in the days ahead....when I dont know, but it will change.

So why dont we just sit back and wait and see....and if Some of us are right and it does change...then we can revisit this.

 

[WootSauce]

Hardly classifies as being uncivil..... it is an opinion. Some people agree with the opinion, some disagree with it, but it is hardly uncivil. This isnt a church group it's a game forum. And those statements exactly sum up how I feel about people who exploit a system in the manner I have referred to. I think this thread displays the dissatisfaction of many gamers about this behavior. My personal belief is that this will be changed in the days ahead....when I dont know, but it will change.

So why dont we just sit back and wait and see....and if Some of us are right and it does change...then we can revisit this.

Again, a decade ago, your argument had legs with a decade old Dev Team and was never implemented...

Player: I can't imagine what other thing this would mean than they are scraping for coin.

Draconi: Ah, and here I was sure you had a stronger imagination than that! At least it beats the original 10 days we used to have. It was set to 90 days after all the confusion with the original IDOC fixes.

MrTact: It's not like the old days where you had to physically login to refresh your house. This means, 30 days *after you stop paying us* your house goes away. The main reason why we're doing this? Well, back in the day, when we originally changed to 90 days, I remember someone . . . let's see, who would that have been . . . oh yeah, ME . . . complaining internally that people would use this to "kite" and only keep their account active 1 month out of 3 to hold houses. Well, guess what's happening? Essentially, we're sick of seeing house signs with ICQ numbers on them. If you want to be a house broker, fine, but now you're going to have to keep your account up to date.


That said - your crap about "characterizing people who do take advantage this rule as somehow "exploiting" EA, or "the same type that park in handicap parking spots and steal from charities", or using a system that was only supposed to be in place for military members." is another thing altogether.

 

[WootSauce]

bottom line - take your argument to the devs. No one on the board is going to help you do this. Very few will agree with you.