The Warrior... A Look At Armor

[Dicimiie]

Remember way back, when playing a pure warrior was actually feasible? Perhaps, with a change in the protection of armor, it could be feasible again. My suggestion is that armor go back to the way it used to be, with various armor types giving better protection. Instead of all armor having a 70% cap in resists, perhaps the following could be added.

Leather... 70% cap.
Studded/Ringmail... 75% cap.
Chain... 80% cap.
Plate... 85% cap.

If you mixed and matched armor pieces, you'd have to average the cap. For example, lets say you have plate everything except leather gloves. That would be (85+85+85+85+85+70)/6=82.5% (I'll assume this number should be rounded down, although I guess true rounding would be beneficial as well).

Now, to offset the additional protection of the armor, I suggest imposing a version of the old dexterity penalty for wearing these armor types as follows:

* Leather... no dex penalty.
* Studded/Ringmail... 1 dex penalty per piece (remember, studded allows for half meditation... or at least did
* Chain... 2 dex penalty per piece
* Plate... 3 dex penalty per piece

As you can see, wearing a full set of plate would have a rather hefty dex penalty, but would be very protective in the long run. A full ring suit would have a much lighter dex penalty, but would also protect less.

I also think this would allow for new items that reduce the dex penalty incurred by wearing metal armor. Could possibly even utilitze the Lower Requirements property already in game for it.

I bring this up because I always felt that the person standing toe-to-toe against a foe should be able to take what is dished out. As it stands now, a pure warrior is fodder against most if not all of the higher end creatures out there without some spellcasting ability backing him/her up. And this just shouldn't be the case. Bring back the availability to play the in-your-face, no-holds barred, magic-is-for-the-weak warrior.

Can you tell I miss my axer?

 

[cucujanu]

how u wanna do this with the %cap if u wear different amour type pieces?

 

[Dicimiie]

how u wanna do this with the %cap if u wear different amour type pieces?

I meant to add that in, but forgot. If you mixed and matched armor pieces, you'd have to average the cap. For example, lets say you have plate everything except leather gloves. That would be (85+85+85+85+85+70)/6=82.5% (I'll assume this number should be rounded down, although I guess true rounding would be beneficial as well).

I'll add this to my original post.

 

[Turdnugget]

I concur. A warrior in leather armor looks like a pansie farmer.

Make armor the way it used to be. Better protection = more stat loss/dex.

I like this idea a lot. And as I mentioned in another thread where this was brought up, just so other classes/templates don't complain about a warrior boost in armor, remember that the majority of this stuff is NON-medable so you don't have to worry about a dexxer repeating 5 specials on you due to massive mana + MR. And making plate/studded Mage Armor is hard, especially on a half-way decent piece.

 

[Dicimiie]

I concur. A warrior in leather armor looks like a pansie farmer.

Make armor the way it used to be. Better protection = more stat loss/dex.

I like this idea a lot. And as I mentioned in another thread where this was brought up, just so other classes/templates don't complain about a warrior boost in armor, remember that the majority of this stuff is NON-medable so you don't have to worry about a dexxer repeating 5 specials on you due to massive mana + MR. And making plate/studded Mage Armor is hard, especially on a half-way decent piece.

This idea would make mage armor more sought after for sure. When AoS first came out, I had a few mid range runic hammers, and I blew them all making armor in the hopes fo catching pieces with mage armor on them. After I was finsihed, I looked at the pieces that I had made, only then thinking that what I was looking for was dumb, since leather armor ws meddable anyway, and it wouldn't take up one of the enchancement slots. In essence, there was no reason to use metal armor with mage armor... in fact it was inferior.

 

[R Traveler]

Don't forget samurai plate, it have mage property on every exceptional piece after recent publish.

 

[Dicimiie]

Don't forget samurai plate, it have mage property on every exceptional piece after recent publish.

Hmmm... if a smith makes a piece of samurai plate with a runic, does the mage armor property take away one of the added properties, or does it get added along with the normal number of added properties?

 

[Tom_Builder]

Hmmm... if a smith makes a piece of samurai plate with a runic, does the mage armor property take away one of the added properties, or does it get added along with the normal number of added properties?

It gets added for free. I always agreed that plate armor should give better resists. Never understood why this was changed in the first place.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Theres on more armour in UO.

Only decorative
and barbed leather kits.

Well and duped valorite sammi.


Armour is dead.

I agree with you too. Should have been left alone we penalties and bonus and variety.

Now my lovely leather can take a smash from a mace, withstand fire from a dragon, and regenerate my mana.

Lovely

 

[Dicimiie]

Could someone direct me to a place where I can find out why teh mage armor property was added to samurai armor? I can't think of any good reason for doing this, unless they wanted to see everyone running around in samurai armor.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

It never mattered until the valorite and verite hammer dupe of 2008. It was just a nice little thing or property on plate armour. I assume to allow the sammy to meditate.

But since the mage property inherent to the armour trumphs the hammer role for properties, valorties and verites kick out artifact type pieces.


So we all run in leather now a-days. Shamefully embarrasing yet we do it. Good thing we have robes.

 

[Endrik]

Absolutly. I dont know about the method or implementation. But for all of you out there that want to cry for a "fix"... this should be it. A warriors armor should be a hell of a lot better then a mages armor. It would be funny to hear all the nerf crys if they ever "FIXED" this problem.

Nail on the head with this thread. This is one of the most unbalanced aspects of UO although most people dont want to admit it cause they like it the way it is.

 

[Dicimiie]

It never mattered until the valorite and verite hammer dupe of 2008. It was just a nice little thing or property on plate armour. I assume to allow the sammy to meditate.

But since the mage property inherent to the armour trumphs the hammer role for properties, valorties and verites kick out artifact type pieces.


So we all run in leather now a-days. Shamefully embarrasing yet we do it. Good thing we have robes.

Still... it would be nice to have the metal armor have higher resistances than leather. The old way was much better. I'dlike to see it brought back. They would probably have to remove the mage armor addition to samurai armor if they did it though. Otherwise, everyone switches from leather to samurai armor.

Hmmm... maybe make samurai armor the equivalent to leather as far as resistances go. That way, you can keep the mage armor property, so bushido warriors can still use it (notice it's not a nerf, since the resistances are the same), but pure warriors that don't need the meditation can get a boost to resistance.

 

[5% Luck]

The main thing to remeber here is the craftes were separated by things they can make. If there was going to be a simular amount of runics for both craftes(tailor/smith) and all made armor, then where would that leave weapons. So the armor/weapon were split up into the skills that can utilize this difference leaving no one obsolete.

Today it is alot different since there are more viable crafts due to more kinds of runics. Look at carpentry. The wooden armors are nearly completely unused and the weapons are quite nearly all maces. Strange!

The change that needs to be made here is gigantic. It wont just do to fix metal vs leathers. If you want a full all out description of my idea of a fix I guess youll have to put me on the payroll as these forums dont allow enough space!

 

[Dicimiie]

The topic has kind of swayed from my original intent. This has more to do with beefing up a warrior than it does about crafting (which is odd, since I very much have a crafter mentality). I would like to see pure warriors get some sort of a boost. I figure armor would be the easiest way to do it.

 

[Nexus]

Remember way back, when playing a pure warrior was actually feasible? Perhaps, with a change in the protection of armor, it could be feasible again. My suggestion is that armor go back to the way it used to be, with various armor types giving better protection. Instead of all armor having a 70% cap in resists, perhaps the following could be added.

Leather... 70% cap.
Studded/Ringmail... 75% cap.
Chain... 80% cap.
Plate... 85% cap.

If you mixed and matched armor pieces, you'd have to average the cap. For example, lets say you have plate everything except leather gloves. That would be (85+85+85+85+85+70)/6=82.5% (I'll assume this number should be rounded down, although I guess true rounding would be beneficial as well).

Now, to offset the additional protection of the armor, I suggest imposing a version of the old dexterity penalty for wearing these armor types as follows:

* Leather... no dex penalty.
* Studded/Ringmail... 1 dex penalty per piece (remember, studded allows for half meditation... or at least did
* Chain... 2 dex penalty per piece
* Plate... 3 dex penalty per piece

As you can see, wearing a full set of plate would have a rather hefty dex penalty, but would be very protective in the long run. A full ring suit would have a much lighter dex penalty, but would also protect less.

I also think this would allow for new items that reduce the dex penalty incurred by wearing metal armor. Could possibly even utilitze the Lower Requirements property already in game for it.

I bring this up because I always felt that the person standing toe-to-toe against a foe should be able to take what is dished out. As it stands now, a pure warrior is fodder against most if not all of the higher end creatures out there without some spellcasting ability backing him/her up. And this just shouldn't be the case. Bring back the availability to play the in-your-face, no-holds barred, magic-is-for-the-weak warrior.

Can you tell I miss my axer?

I'd be more willing to put Dex penalties back in myself with the removal of Mage Armor properties in the following manner. Studded having the highest penalty followed by Leather, then Ring. Chain with the lowest and finally Plate with no penalty. Plate armor offered much more mobility due to how it was jointed than Leather which had to be hardened and backed with cloth padding the same holds true for Studded which was made like Leather. Ring and Chain hampered movement due to a combination of weight and inertia. You wouldn't be able to tie your shoes in Leather armor but could do cartwheels in Plate....

 

[Dicimiie]

I'd be more willing to put Dex penalties back in myself with the removal of Mage Armor properties in the following manner. Studded having the highest penalty followed by Leather, then Ring. Chain with the lowest and finally Plate with no penalty. Plate armor offered much more mobility due to how it was jointed than Leather which had to be hardened and backed with cloth padding the same holds true for Studded which was made like Leather. Ring and Chain hampered movement due to a combination of weight and inertia. You wouldn't be able to tie your shoes in Leather armor but could do cartwheels in Plate....

I don't know from personal experience, but isn't plate simply heavier than chain or ring mail? That alone would make mobility a problem.

 

[Nexus]

I don't know from personal experience, but isn't plate simply heavier than chain or ring mail? That alone would make mobility a problem.

Plate weighed about 80lbs for a full suit which is no less than what most soldiers today carry along on long foot marches while at war. Ring mail and Chain were lighter, but the biggest difference is how that weight reacts. Plate is ridge you don't have to use as much effort to overcome it's inertia when changing direction with a weapon swing, as with Chain armor which was much more fluid in movement. People have a huge misconception on Ring mail though, ring is basically like a modified version of Studded leather it was iron rings over hardened leather this was to hamper penetration by arrows or piercing weapons the big difference is it was generally only a Tunic of Ring used.

Plates advantage is it was jointed to allow movement the jointing was designed after the natural joints of the human body to coincide with them allowing maximum mobility with the most protection, flexible metal banding was common at some joints to provide protection while for others it was the separation point of various pieces such as between the breastplate and the Arm pieces See the photo below for an example.

Plates only real weakness was Arrows from heavy bows and crossbows and heavy piercing weapons like the Bec de corbin, which was a war hammer modified with a spike on one side, or some of the various pole arms like spears. Most close quarter edged weapons would dent it and slide right off giving little to no damage to the person wearing it unless they could get a forceful lunge in on it.

Also don't forget that Plate being ridged would help support it's own weight something no other armor did leading to less fatigue while wearing it.

 

[Pickaxe Pete]

Just make the 'mage armor' property nullify the cap increase and the idea is good to go.

 

[Dicimiie]

Just make the 'mage armor' property nullify the cap increase and the idea is good to go.

Great idea. Simple and effective.

 

[Basara]

Actually, the bec de corbin (Crow's beak) was more akin to the Hammer Pick (not war hammer), and also tended to have and extra foot or two of handle, to get more reach and speed at the delivery end.

Between the rigid construction, the padding and the air spaces, it is actually a lot more comfortable to even SLEEP in the enclosed plate suits (what D&D called field plate or full plate) than in any other armor type. Studded has the studs (imagine sleeping on bed of rivets), leather has no room for comfort, ringmail and chainmail would be almost suffocating from the unsupported weight. Bone armor would be a lot like studded, in terms of comfort.

Also, due to the air pockets and freedom of motion, contrary to popular thought, one could probably SWIM in platemail (but not in chain or ring), but you'd want the helm off to do it properly (limits vision, and can trap water inside keeping you from breathing). After all, one of the things modern elite military units do is swim with that much weight or more, and not as well distributed as the plate's weight. It just wasn't done in historical times for two reasons: 1. Your armorer would soundly thrash you for abusing the armor, and getting water in places you don't want it, and (most importantly) 2. Most of the nobles & knights that would wear such plate suits never learned how to swim - hell, some of the knightly orders took vows to never partake such luxuries as BATHS.

 

[Nexus]

Actually, the bec de corbin (Crow's beak) was more akin to the Hammer Pick (not war hammer), and also tended to have and extra foot or two of handle, to get more reach and speed at the delivery end.

Between the rigid construction, the padding and the air spaces, it is actually a lot more comfortable to even SLEEP in the enclosed plate suits (what D&D called field plate or full plate) than in any other armor type. Studded has the studs (imagine sleeping on bed of rivets), leather has no room for comfort, ringmail and chainmail would be almost suffocating from the unsupported weight. Bone armor would be a lot like studded, in terms of comfort.

Also, due to the air pockets and freedom of motion, contrary to popular thought, one could probably SWIM in platemail (but not in chain or ring), but you'd want the helm off to do it properly (limits vision, and can trap water inside keeping you from breathing). After all, one of the things modern elite military units do is swim with that much weight or more, and not as well distributed as the plate's weight. It just wasn't done in historical times for two reasons: 1. Your armorer would soundly thrash you for abusing the armor, and getting water in places you don't want it, and (most importantly) 2. Most of the nobles & knights that would wear such plate suits never learned how to swim - hell, some of the knightly orders took vows to never partake such luxuries as BATHS.

Yea but when most people visualize at War Hammer they are actually mentally picturing a bec de corbin. It's become the stereotypical "war hammer" for the fantasy fans.

Plate had one big drawback, it was a pain in the tail to put on and off by yourself due to the clasps and hooks. But then again that's why conscripting 12 year olds to serve as pages and squires evolved....

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

*Grabs a bag of and starts reading up on history*

Very informative posts here. Tell us about wenches. hehehe

 

[Nexus]

*Grabs a bag of and starts reading up on history*

Very informative posts here. Tell us about wenches. hehehe

http://www.wench.org/


The International Wenches Guild.

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

http://www.wench.org/


The International Wenches Guild.

Thank YOU! I finally found a home...........................

Oops, that isn't a home for me. That should be called the "International B*tch Guild."

They obviously misinterpreted the correct meaning of "wench."

Main Entry: 1 wench

Pronunciation: \ˈwench\

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English wenche, short for wenchel child, from Old English wencel; akin to Old High German ****ōn to totter, waver and probably to Old High German winchan to stagger — more at wink

Date: 14th century

1 a: a young woman : girl b: a female servant
2: a lewd woman : prostitute