Jeremy - About the thief comment in townhall meeting...

[Traveller]

I just read the town hall transcript, and bumped into this comment:

"zigzag - *Jove* Anything for a thief to do in this new world of yours?
Jeremy_EAMythic - Mesanna says "We will be giving thieves some love even before the new world opens up!" "

Being a thief (now with account closed) I have to admit that comment almost horrified me. I remember well what happened to thieves the last time something like this was told (AoS). Are you planning for more janitor stuff? Or is there something for real thieves in it?

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

I don't think they can make matters worse than now for a (real) thief. Or can they?

My poor thief has been logged out in Hythloth for over three years now. I think she has a +25 stat scroll she stole in her packie. That was quite a fun harrower spawn - seven hours of mad PvP and stealing.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

LOL, before AoS, they said they would be giving thieves a bone. ROFL. Boy, was that the truth...la

 

[Salty Pete]

To be fair they trashed every skill with AoS. Every skill, every character.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Not like thievery...la

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Not like thievery...la

Hmm I thought AOS removed thieves from the game.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Not like thievery...la

Hmm I thought AOS removed thieves from the game.

Pretty darn close, there aren't many of us left. Sure some have just stopped using their thief characters, but a large majority did quit the game...la

 

[the 4th man]

My thief, on vacation from nothing, is still around.....he hopes one day to be able to rob a bank, and nail a percentage of everyones bank rolls, but he doesn't see that happening.

One can always wish......

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Well, technically, he could pick some of the chests that reside in the banks and steal the items there...just sayin...la

 

[love2winalot]

My Thief, Sir Steals a Lot, has not seen the light of day in over 4 years. I don't care what they do, as long as they do something, anything, .....

 

[Black Sun]

Pretty darn close, there aren't many of us left. Sure some have just stopped using their thief characters, but a large majority did quit the game...la

Or turned over a new leaf and took up another profession while stealing sits on a soul stone in the bank. My thief is a stealth fencer now.

 

[ColterDC]

Are you planning for more janitor stuff?

That would be my bet.

 

[UltimaSword]

I use my thief. Got some nice stuff recently from fel. It is freaking hard but possible. Thieves are still killed though. I do not mind the dungeon looting (cause it sure isn't stealing) but I'd rather have pvp stealing a bit less one sided.

 

[Cerwin Vega]

Come on... You dont think its great to "steal" and hord away 100's of worthless doom and tokuno arties.

 

[Lord Drakelord]

To be fair they trashed every skill with AoS. Every skill, every character.

Ya the birth of power scrolls did that. I still like my idea of random items spawning all over [random locations]. All new stuff, and when in Felucca, would make you go gray, and also block recalling away with your ill gotten loot.

 

[Nystul]

thievery needs to be linked back to other players in a way to make it fun again.

but with the introduction of item insurance there isn't much they can do to make people happy imo.

the thief is extinct in uo. when aos came out it may as well been renamed to something else since all it's used for it junk artifacts..

 

[dukarlo]

Hmm I thought AOS removed thieves from the game.

Thieves were nearly destroyed by AOS but they were still able to make a good living off of powerscrolls. Mondains Legacy was the final nail in the coffin. Because stealth archers were so over powered a quick fix of passive detect for characters with 0 skill points in detect hidden was put in the game. EA failed to figure on the consequences for the few thieves left making a good living. Skilled thieves that completely outplayed their marks were now subject a random dice roll against elves. Not only does a thief have to worry about the dice roll of thier primary mark but the dice roll of every other player standing in close proximity at a champ spawn. The ironic part is passive detect does little to stealth archers because no stealth archer gets within 3-4 tiles of thier target before popping out. If EA wanted to start to help thieves out they would make it so passive detect did not effect characters with large amounts of skill points invested for the sole purpose of stealing. I believe Wilki at one point tried to help thieves by helping the dice roll for players with real gm stealing but it did not take into consideration the dice roll going up against multiple players. Stealing use to be an art form of patience and cunning and flat out outsmarting people but now it is reduced the same way most of pvp is to dice rolls as opposed to player skill. I for one would be thrilled if they made the simple fix of actually making players actively search for thieves instead of rewarding marks for thier own incompetence and lack of effort.

 

[Black Sun]

Maybe a special insurance exemption for items when it comes to stealing?
That would be nice. A system where things that are insured are safe (like they are now) when you die, but if a thief actively uses the stealing skill on that item he still has a chance to steal it, just like he would if it wasn't insured.

 

[Traveller]

EA failed to figure on the consequences for the few thieves left making a good living.

That is not correct. Many beta testers told EA about the consequences, both for thieves and stealth archers. They knew what the consequences would be. They just chose to ignore them.

I believe Wilki at one point tried to help thieves by helping the dice roll for players with real gm stealing but it did not take into consideration the dice roll going up against multiple players.

That is not correct either. Wilki helped the dice roll for passive detect agaisnt thieves, true. But he was also responsible for the increase of passive detection radius from 2 tiles to 4, with the obvious consequences.

 

[Viper09]

I just read the town hall transcript, and bumped into this comment:

"zigzag - *Jove* Anything for a thief to do in this new world of yours?
Jeremy_EAMythic - Mesanna says "We will be giving thieves some love even before the new world opens up!" "

Being a thief (now with account closed) I have to admit that comment almost horrified me. I remember well what happened to thieves the last time something like this was told (AoS). Are you planning for more janitor stuff? Or is there something for real thieves in it?

Well, to be honest, the only way they could make it worse for thieves would be by removing the skill or changing it to "artifact hunting" and making it only so you can loot worthless artifacts off the ground that will spawn again in the exact same spot hours or days later.

But I really hope the "love" they speak of isn't just another set of rares to loot from the ground. Because looting an item off the ground isn't stealing, it's looting, every thief knows this.

 

[Traveller]

Well, to be honest, the only way they could make it worse for thieves would be by removing the skill or changing it to "artifact hunting"

Never underestimate EA's ability to make things worse....

 

[aarons6]

Maybe a special insurance exemption for items when it comes to stealing?
That would be nice. A system where things that are insured are safe (like they are now) when you die, but if a thief actively uses the stealing skill on that item he still has a chance to steal it, just like he would if it wasn't insured.

i have a thief, but i vote no for this.
since certain items are so rare and very impossible to replace there has to be a method of making them impossible to lose.. and thats insurance.. even tho it doesnt work sometimes and stuff still goes on the corpse and gets looted

i would say having a successful attempt on stealing an insured item should bring 600 out of the bank of the victim and flag the thief grey just as he actually stolen the item. there can be the same level of success that we have now..

a message so and so is attempting to steal said item but failed. flagged grey.
a message so and so successfully stolen said item and 600 gold was taken out of bank. flagged grey.
a message so and so successfully stolen said item and 600 gold was taken out of bank. not flagged grey.

no message, 600 taken out, 100 % success not flagged grey.

this would make my pvp thief happy again.

if the gold isnt in the bank or the victim doesnt have renew insurance set, then the item would lose its insurance and would be susceptible to stealing for real the next time.

 

[pavel.vesely]

Perfect equivalent to how insurance changed item handling on player kill, aarons6. Why no UO developer thought of that?

 

[UltimaSword]

1. Passive detect is stupid. Can my thief...passively steal stuff from peoples backpacks? I would not have minded if an elf had a better chance to detect when used. But not passively.

2. I always hear the "get 600 gold for attempting to steal insured item" idea but it is easily manipulated and just not worth it or fun.

3. Personally I am all in favor of making insurance not work in fel at all. People would not use their amazing artifact/runic suits. They would go back to smith made armor and guess what? Smiths are then useful!!! Oh and they could have arenas in fel where your items stay insured. So you can still pvp with them. But no one would want that.

 

[D'Amavir]

2. I always hear the "get 600 gold for attempting to steal insured item" idea but it is easily manipulated and just not worth it or fun.

Not that I think its the best idea or the worst, but how can it be easily manipulated? Not saying it can't, I am just curious as to how.

 

[UltimaSword]

Not that I think its the best idea or the worst, but how can it be easily manipulated? Not saying it can't, I am just curious as to how.

My bad ignore that part lol I didn't realize it comes out of victim's bank lol. I mean it'd be better than now but its still not preferable.

 

[D'Amavir]

My bad ignore that part lol I didn't realize it comes out of victim's bank lol. I mean it'd be better than now but its still not preferable.

Gotcha. No problem. And ya, 600 gold for 'stealing' a 2 million gold weapon still leaves a lot to be desired, for sure. heh

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

To be fair they trashed every skill with AoS. Every skill, every character.

I'll second this.

If they would revert the game back to Pre-AoS I think you would see people come back to UO.

A few major reverts I would like to see are

1. The deletion of item properties. Bring back the old system that was less confusing.
2. Get rid of item insurance.
3. Bring back item bless deeds as an extremely rare drop.
4. Bring back lootable bones in all facets. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this one, but I think they should have lengthened the time rather than make them non-lootable.

 

[aarons6]

Gotcha. No problem. And ya, 600 gold for 'stealing' a 2 million gold weapon still leaves a lot to be desired, for sure. heh

im not saying its perfect, but right now all i can steal are regs and bandages.

you can prob make a few hundred k stealing easy and since the gold comes into your pack you can get killed and have it looted.

 

[UltimaSword]

im not saying its perfect, but right now all i can steal are regs and bandages.

you can prob make a few hundred k stealing easy and since the gold comes into your pack you can get killed and have it looted.

Try champ spawns. I mean it is VERY luck based hoping to not get revealed but its possible.

 

[aarons6]

Try champ spawns. I mean it is VERY luck based hoping to not get revealed but its possible.

still working on his skills..
with items im gm+ stealing
i got 98 hiding and gm stealth

gm snooping

i just put together an all 70s 100% lrc suit.

i never been to a champ spawn before...

 

[Black Sun]

I have a soulstoned thief, I have been a supporter of the thief class since day one of my playing UO, and have had at least 3 active thieves in the past. And I vote no on this here's why:

i have a thief, but i vote no for this.
since certain items are so rare and very impossible to replace there has to be a method of making them impossible to lose.. and thats insurance.. even tho it doesnt work sometimes and stuff still goes on the corpse and gets looted

Even with enough planning, skill, cunning, and guts the mona lisa could be stolen. Nothing is ever 100% safe. That's just the way it works. Why should UO be any different?

i would say having a successful attempt on stealing an insured item should bring 600 out of the bank of the victim and flag the thief grey just as he actually stolen the item. there can be the same level of success that we have now..

I don't want the 600 gold. I want the +15 fencing ring I targeted, or the uber enhanced katana, or the artifact drop they just got. 600 gold is nothing. I can make that in 2 minutes selling stuff people drop on the ground at the bank. You may have a thief, but based on that statment I don't think you get the true spirit of the class.

a message so and so is attempting to steal said item but failed. flagged grey.
a message so and so successfully stolen said item and 600 gold was taken out of bank. flagged grey.
a message so and so successfully stolen said item and 600 gold was taken out of bank. not flagged grey.

no message, 600 taken out, 100 % success not flagged grey.

this would make my pvp thief happy again.

Again, this statement makes me think you're not a thief in the true sence of the word.[Edit]Just to clarify, I don't think real thieves don't PvP. They do. But real thieves are interested in more than just gold. Any PvP'er with a sword can get gold. Theives are something different.[/Edit]

if the gold isnt in the bank or the victim doesnt have renew insurance set, then the item would lose its insurance and would be susceptible to stealing for real the next time.

If your system were put into play, IF this were to happen, this part I could agree with.


Basically it boils down to this. Fel is not Tram. Fel is supposed to be dangerous. You're supposed to be taking a chance with your items and life when you go there. If someone is worried about losing part of their 20 mil suit, they shouldn't be wearing it in Fel. I think the only thing that should work in Fel are blessed items. I'll say it again, Fel is not Tram, people should realize that and act accordingly when they go there. Don't take me the wrong way, I am not bashing Tram saying it's too easy, and the people who live there are marshmallows. Not at all. I live in Tram, the only life I have know in UO is in Tram. I have had houses in Fel, but only one or 2 for a few months at a time over 8 years. Fel is supposed to the the photo negative of Tram, let's make it a dangerous, scary, fun place to play.

 

[Viper09]

Would be nice to let thieves steal boxes and containers again. I don't understand why that was changed, really.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Would be nice to let thieves steal boxes and containers again. I don't understand why that was changed, really.

Because people were unable to learn how to keep from putting blessable items into said containers. Because of this, they cried when we would steal a bag with some of their goodies in them.

More whine = more thief nerf...as it always has been...la

 

[Traveller]

Personally, I enjoy taking arties from Doom and Dojo. I realize this is not old school thievery,

Not correct. That's not thievery at all. That's looting. The fact you need the stealing to loot the floor does mean you are stealing.

 

[Old Wolf]

Not correct. That's not thievery at all. That's looting. The fact you need the stealing to loot the floor does mean you are stealing.

QFT.

I like that they added capability to thieves when no one was about, it's just too bad that they lost their main purpose.

 

[Muu Bin]

LOL, before AoS, they said they would be giving thieves a bone. ROFL. Boy, was that the truth...la

I think you mean THE bone...

 

[Traveller]

Correction: I enjoy looting items from the floors/walls of various spots, using the "stealing" skill. I would not enjoy using the same skill to take items from other characters' backpacks. This is a difference in temperament/play style. I hope UO considers ways to accommodate both looters/grabbers such as myself and others who like taking items directly from other players.

Well, put in this way I don't see any reason to say no.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

I'd be all for removing insurance in Fel. It'd actually bring back a decent degree of player skill to PvP because everyone would be more or less running around in the same gear. Smiths would actually get use and business again. Faction crafters may come into being again because when they craft something and add Silver to the making, it becomes Blessed for awhile. Although, i do remember the crap with the Faction Blessed Ind/Supremely Acc/Vanq Long Spears when they first came out with Runic Hammers. Would promote Faction conflict because you could only wear X amount of Faction Blessed equipment for your Rank in the faction.
Thieves would once more become useful, it's been a LONG ass time since my Thief/Mage Disarmed someone and stole their wep out of their pack.

PS: How do i get my old username info back? Forgot to do that when they made the announcement.

 

[Fink]

Stealing an insured item from another player should:

- deduct 600gp from the victim's bank
- credit 600gp to the thief's bank (optional)
- send the stolen item to the victim's bank, thereby taking the "stolen" item out of the situation. the item would also be unusable for a short cooldown period.

 

[UltimaSword]

it is a good idea but I'd never do it. Not fun IMO.

 

[Nexus]

Correction: I enjoy looting items from the floors/walls of various spots, using the "stealing" skill. I would not enjoy using the same skill to take items from other characters' backpacks. This is a difference in temperament/play style. I hope UO considers ways to accommodate both looters/grabbers such as myself and others who like taking items directly from other players.

Say that in the Thieves forum and they'll quickly point you to the Rares Collectors forums. "stealing" items in dungeons isn't part of the Thieves Code that members of the Thieves Forums and most of us serious about the Thief profession generally claim to go by. If you don't know what that is I'll post it for you...

"The Code"

All thieves are expected to follow the following rules:

1. Thou shalt not steal from or loot fellow thieves.
2. Thou shalt not purposely reveal fellow thieves.
3. Thou shalt not identify disguised thieves.
4. Thou shalt not kill fellow thieves.
5. Thou shalt not follow fellow thieves around telling people that they are thieves.
6. Thou shalt offer aid and comfort to fellow thieves when possible.
7. Thou shalt not ask stupid questions that are thoroughly covered in the FAQ.
8. Thou shalt check the forum to see if thine question as already been answered.
9. Thou shalt retain a sense of humor.
10. Thou shalt not call thy self a thief if thou hast not stolen from thine fellow player.
11. Thou shalt remember that thine profession is spelled thief and not theif.

See it's right there Rule #10 exempts Pure Crates (Dungeon Looters) from the ranks of those calling themselves a Thief

 

[Black Sun]

PS: How do i get my old username info back? Forgot to do that when they made the announcement.

A PM to a forum Admin should get the ball rolling. I'm not sure if they're still able to merge everything back together (or whatever it was they do exactly). But it's worth a shot. Magdalene might be able to help you out, drop her a message asking about it. Personally, I figured new board, new start. Who cares about a post count anyway. The username is a different story though. I can't imagine being someone other than who I've always been.

 

[5% Luck]

I dont know. It is kind of fun to stealth around stealing bandages. I mean when these guys go to heal themselves!!!!

3600 enhanced bandies and 0 fountains of life!

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

It used to be more fun before the LRC suits and Chiv. Before they would only have regs, pots or aids to heal themselves with. Now, it's just not the same...besides, they stopped chasing after bandies years ago. The only time I would get chased are by the notos, not even involved with the mark...la