POWER SCROLLS...

[Turdnugget]

Omfgoose... open your eyes trammies... just because someone cheats/hacks/speedhacks in Fel doesn't mean you CAN'T KILL them. You just gotta know what you are doing. If a lone hacker, can kill a group of 4. That group of 4 shouldn't be PvPing. Even though they use cheats, they're not unstoppable. Bandages only heal so fast, gheal pots have a 10 second timer, they only have 150 total hps (possibly). Learn to fight and you'll be fine.

Allowing powerscrolls in Tram is NOT going to destroy the playground for a lot of cheaters. Those that cheat, do not do so to get rich. It's for the thrill of killing because they SUCK so bad they can't fight like a normal person. Allowing PS in Trammel is only going to AUGMENT the cheating/scripting that goes on.

How hard would it be for a couple people to farm Despise ALL day loading up on powerscrolls w/out ANY risk. And yes, it is possible to spawn it with just 2 people. Even one person could do it with the right template. What is to stop people from scripting that? We've seen what they did with the Painted Caves killing trogs. I can't imagine it'd be too hard to alter it a little to farm Despise.

So if they allow PS in Tram, then they should allow Doom in Fel and double the drop rate of artis to make it fair right? Since everything should be 'equal'.

I complain about cheaters/hacks/scripters all the time. But they're just as human as you and me and bleed the same blood our characters do.

Just last night we helped an ally do 2 harrowers back to back. First time, a legit guild raided. It was a great battle and we won. Second time, the harry was in Shame. The guild from the first harry came, we fought. Won. And they left. In comes the infamous cheaters on my shard. About 10 or so... we fought back n' forth back n' forth. And guess what? We pushed them OUT of Shame all the way from level 3. Yes we outnumbered them, but that's what you gotta do to level the playing field. Get those bastards on foot and they're not as good. Learn to fight properly, use teamwork and you should be ok. Using cheaters as an excuse to bring powerscrolls to Trammel is a crock of crap and a SCAAAAAAAAAAM. It will only promote the abuse of farming powerscrolls. Hell, I could sit in Despise Tram all day and become a billionaire. That's crap.

 

[Connor_Graham]

The Tweeners are the single greatest obstacle to UO stability, as long as there is a PvP camp and a NON PvP camp.

The players that enjoy ALL parts of UO and not just a single piece of it are the ones that are destroying it?

Wow are you immensely disillusioned.



Conversation between 2 players:

Player 1- What part of UO do you like best?

Player 2- I like all of it.

Player 1- Oh, well....you're destroying the game because you like all of it.

Player 2- Uh.......What?

 

[Fizzleton]

Nope. With a GM only character, you can go to the next event, and come out with enough "stuff" to sell to have more than enough to buy any scroll you want. If that's not good enough for you, that same GM character can earn you 1mil per day or more doing normal things.

A Bowyer/Fletcher/Lumberjack can make 100mil in a matter of a couple of months by chopping their own wood and doing the Heartwood quests for runics. I got 3 Heartwood, 10 Yew, 17 Ash and countless Oak runics in 5 weeks spent in Heartwood. At 12.5mil per Heartwood runic, that's 37.5mil, plus 2mil per Yew Runic is another 20mil, for a total of 57.5mil, and I haven't counted in what I got for all the Ash runics either. That doesn't include the ring I got in one of the reward bags I sold for 5mil, or the bows that I've sold for well above that.

The gold is there and easy to get. You're just making your own roadblocks on the way to getting it.

Connor, you among others miss the important part: It is not the question if you can or can not make enough money to buy scrolls. It is the question if you can get them by normal gameplay yourself - and I don't consider stealthing around at champ spawns and getting the left-overs "gameplay" in this sense. Getting scrolls via gameplay is the moment when they drop in your backpack as a reward for defeating the champ. There are workarounds for this moment, but they are workarounds, nothing more.
At the moment, you don't get scrolls for defeating a champ. You get scrolls when u defeat the champ AND manage to repell raiding reds. I, as a veteran, like that; and as I stated before, I played both the raiders and the raided, so I know very well what I am talking about. However, looking at UO as a game that should reward players according to their input, we know all very well that there are few well organized and god like equipped guilds that get the scrolls and sell them. Is this fair? Not for me.
So I suggest to build in a mid-range corridor for people who want to do champs and get rewarded for doing them. I suggest that 105/110er scrolls are solely dropped by Tram Champs (Ilsh & Tokuno), and 115/120 as well as stat scrolls remain to the fel champs. Why? Who needs 105/110er? Veterans? No. So give the opportunity to get them in the hands of those who need them - mid-range newbs with moderate (90+) skills and moderate gear. For them, just completing such a champ spawn is a nice challenge that will be rewarded with scrolls they actually need. And you give them the opportunity to learn how to work a champ spawn, what might lead to new blues trying their luck on fel champ spawns. This would balance the system a bit; however, there will be much more effort to be put in balancing fel systems than that, to be honest.

And, btw: doing laughable heartwood quests over and over again for five weeks for getting runics is - just boring bs, nothing more, so annoying boring in fact that mostly only scripters will do them. So you suggest new players to do enough heartwood bowyer quests to get enough money to buy scrolls they should get through fighting champ spawns themselves?

regards

 

[CatLord]

Excellent post master Fizzleton.

If we should do heartwood quests to buy the ps... why not do bod quests and get the same ps?

and how can someone get millions for tram scrolls, if they ever get there, when their price would drop like a rock?

 

[Connor_Graham]

No one is stopping those new players from joining a PvP guild and getting the scrolls they need through regular gameplay.

As far as what's boring and what isn't, that's up to the individual to decide, not anyone else.

 

[Wenchkin]

The bold is a significant difference in our expectations of a MMORPG. You seem to advocate that the Player makes the entertainment, but your position/posture states clearly you expect the Game owners to make the entertainment.

No, players make their entertainment using the game contents provided by the developers. I just want more content to bounce stories and activities off of, not an alternative to doing it myself. I've been a RPer all 9 + years of my UO life, but that doesn't mean EA are free to put their feet up and add nothing further. If we're supposed to work with what we have, that means no new content or expansions for anyone, which I don't think many players would support MMORPGs are best as a constantly changing evolving landscape where players see the world change but can make their own stories up on the side of that.

I want the Game owners to be invisible and hands off, except were the rules of the game prevent us from being able to deal with ... problem people (hackers, cheats, etc ... mostly anything that ends up with account(s) being banned). Were we the players make the entertainment. That, that entertainment in the context of UO has a PvP Rule Set and a NON PvP Rule Set. In that context the facets being duplicates of each other are NOT RELEVANT. it is a code convenience, an implementation convenience or in short a reduction in the operating cost.

Well it would make the game cheaper I guess, but still, I like the differences and I'm sure other players do too. The variety in experience should be more than just "non-con PvP" or "safe". But that is my opinion and I accept that yours differs.

Trust me I know your a Tweener. I have known that straight along. I do NOT want this to get ... combative ...

The Tweeners are the single greatest obstacle to UO stability, as long as there is a PvP camp and a NON PvP camp.

It was manifestly clear the day they put Trammel online that the Tweeners would be a divisive influence/force rather than a uniting influence. That the objective of this group is to destroy the other two camps play style. I 100% accept they do not see it that way. They see it as merging the two play styles into their own play style, in their terms the SUPERIOR PLAY STYLE. Merging as in DESTROYING. Merging as in NEITHER CAMP WILL BE HAPPY.

Well, call me what you like, but I have spent years trying to get Tram and Fel players talking to and interacting with each other, and in game I certainly do keep the peace very well... Otherwise, if I was in a Fel camp I would really be on Siege rather than posting here. I don't hang around Uhall for the cookies

I'm not trying to merge anyone elses playstyle into my own, I'm trying to encourage MORE options for us to play with, not fewer! But after 9 + years in game, the last thing I want is less to play around with. I've long accepted that Tram is around and that there are good and bad on both facets.

That is pretty much UO now wouldn't you say? Neither Camp is happy.

It's not really a camp thing IMO, UO players as a whole aren't happy, and there have been gripes on the go from long before Tram even existed. Some gripes never left - tamer hate for example Siege players don't have a Tram and Fel camp, yet I think they still have a lot of issues to resolve.

I don't think I'm the only one who's a lot more grumbly on Uhall than in game. In game I am very content 99.9% of the time because I avoid what I dislike and do what I enjoy. But now I'm realising how bad things have become. I've waited quietly and patiently for years to see Fel great again - which hasn't happened. I'm done waiting, now I'm posting.

I don't just want Fel better for Fel players either. Most of my customers in the tavern are from Tram and I hope that continues. Players shouldn't just feel they only have one facet, they should experience the whole game IMO. I want to see more than just PvPers and thieves in Fel and see players go to where the content they want is, regardless of facet. We're UO players, that's as far as I'd describe players. Or perhaps by shard heh.

Wenchy

 

[Fizzleton]

No one is stopping those new players from joining a PvP guild and getting the scrolls they need through regular gameplay

Really?

"HelloooooOOoooo"

(Conversation of a newb in fel who wants to join a pvp guild)


You don't have any chance to even be considered worthy enough joining pvp guilds without a template that is "workable" - you might get that 120 sword from the guild, but you should be 115 at least. The only exception are known members who build up a new char. Coming with something different would earn you a "LOL", nothing more.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

No, players make their entertainment using the game contents provided by the developers. I just want more content to bounce stories and activities off of, not an alternative to doing it myself. I've been a RPer all 9 + years of my UO life, but that doesn't mean EA are free to put their feet up and add nothing further. If we're supposed to work with what we have, that means no new content or expansions for anyone, which I don't think many players would support MMORPGs are best as a constantly changing evolving landscape where players see the world change but can make their own stories up on the side of that.

To use Everquest as an example. EQ has more Expansions that any MMORPG. It has more Landscape than any MMORPG. It has more encounters types than any MMORPG.

The single most common complaint by EQ posters is that EQ is TO BIG, you can't find anyone, that the majority of the land has been obsoleted/trivialized by expansions.

UO has been spared that .... mostly. Yet I suspect more than a few people will say that the UO Land is to large for the population, that many encounter zones go unused. That content has been trivialized by expansions.

Yet your position wants to increase the very things that are diluting the encounter zones. While your hope may be that they are long term entertainment, the reality is they are tossed on the History Pile as yesterdays bright new shiny toy within days or weeks of having been released.

The only permanent/long lasting events are those that are player based. One might say that a Player ran tavern that is constantly visited is such an example. In short when the players create the environment for entertainment, then that entertainment evolves as needed to maintain the level of entertainment. It does so because the entertainment is based on Players interacting with Players. Which is exactly what the PvP and the NON PvP camps do. They each interact with players, just differently. They derive their entertainment from this interaction, alliances evolve, change get back together. In short it is a virtual social interaction. BUT one must accept they are incompatible formats for interaction (refers to PvP vs NON PvP).

When they add MoB's, it isn't like they add new MoB AI, they just reskin the object and change the properties. PvP? By definition, it is not up for substantive change.

Well, call me what you like, but I have spent years trying to get Tram and Fel players talking to and interacting with each other, and in game I certainly do keep the peace very well...

I tried to depersonalize it and keep it ... outside.

[You = Tweeners and NOT a specific individual]

You need to ask yourself if you have never advocated a change to the PvP encounter of Trammel, advocated restrictions on PvP that would facilitate Trammel players. Advocated items be in Felucca to con/scam ... well lets say facilitate Trammel Players being there. If the answer is yes, then .... my position stands and I accept you have no means to see any merit in my assertion.

Each of those two camps have the right to have their play style be the way they want it, not the way the Tweeners define their play style.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Really?

"HelloooooOOoooo"

(Conversation of a newb in fel who wants to join a pvp guild)


You don't have any chance to even be considered worthy enough joining pvp guilds without a template that is "workable"

You're obviously talking to the wrong guilds then.

 

[Setnaffa]

​

How about we just do away with the BOD system since it was totally abused, 100 of Val Hammers PHFFT

Bot at spawns are only cam to see what level its on nothing to do with completeing the spawn. Hey what happened to the Loser Smilly?:gun:

The BOD system didn't cause 100's of Val Hammers. The dupe exploit caused that. 1 hammer turned into hundreds.

Now back to the OP.....Not a good idea. Skill scrolls are highly prized, so getting them on your own should take great risk...i.e. PvPing in a Champ Spawn.

 

[RoycroftLS]

No one is stopping those new players from joining a PvP guild and getting the scrolls they need through regular gameplay.

It's easy to say that if you aren't a new player.

The guild(s) on any production shard that currently have a stranglehold on the champ spawns certainly aren't looking to recruit. They already have what they want, and new members would just mean the loot would be divided more ways.

Ok, so what about joining a guild that isn't in control? There aren't many of these left around for the simple fact that they have little to no success. Who wants to play for a consistently losing team?

Trying to organize a guild to challenge the supremacy of those top-tier guilds is almost always a losing prospect. There are constantly issues that splinter any such guild... like casual vs. hardcore, or cheats vs. legit. And assuming that a guild manages to get through those issues and starts to mount a challenge, the controlling guild can just entice their best players over with promises of wealth. Then things go back to square one.

If it was only a couple production shards that had a Fel oligarchy, then there wouldn't be such an uproar about it. But when almost every production shard has settled on a equilibrium of a few people dominating the rest, there is something inherently wrong with the underlying game mechanics.

 

[Wenchkin]

To use Everquest as an example. EQ has more Expansions that any MMORPG. It has more Landscape than any MMORPG. It has more encounters types than any MMORPG.

The single most common complaint by EQ posters is that EQ is TO BIG, you can't find anyone, that the majority of the land has been obsoleted/trivialized by expansions.

UO has been spared that .... mostly. Yet I suspect more than a few people will say that the UO Land is to large for the population, that many encounter zones go unused. That content has been trivialized by expansions.

My preference has always been to make the existing lands full and interesting before adding more. The land mass we have for Fel and the Fel T2A lands is more than big enough to accommodate say random overland spawns, have a few mobs changed in dungeons and perhaps some quests or other bits and bobs. I'm not talking a whole new Fel expansion, just a bit of spit and polish. Ok, on second thoughts, hold the spit

Yet your position wants to increase the very things that are diluting the encounter zones. While your hope may be that they are long term entertainment, the reality is they are tossed on the History Pile as yesterdays bright new shiny toy within days or weeks of having been released.

That's why I suggested that instead of having the same ilshy marties etc, things got changed now and then so players maintained interest. Of course it's not a perfect system, but if you look at the areas outside of champ spawns and faction towns, that's a LOT of land which could have little bits in. I'd rather see changes through the year than the exact same thing which has been around for 9 years virtually unchanged

The only permanent/long lasting events are those that are player based. One might say that a Player ran tavern that is constantly visited is such an example. In short when the players create the environment for entertainment, then that entertainment evolves as needed to maintain the level of entertainment. It does so because the entertainment is based on Players interacting with Players. Which is exactly what the PvP and the NON PvP camps do. They each interact with players, just differently. They derive their entertainment from this interaction, alliances evolve, change get back together. In short it is a virtual social interaction. BUT one must accept they are incompatible formats for interaction (refers to PvP vs NON PvP).

But player run and EA run events aren't a one or the other thing. Both work well. I see it like a partnership when they co-ordinate, and if they don't we do our own thing and players have a choice in what they do. Some players won't really go for event content, I don't fuss over it that much TBH. But as a RPer, sometimes it's good to not have to come up with ideas each and every night y'know?

You need to ask yourself if you have never advocated a change to the PvP encounter of Trammel, advocated restrictions on PvP that would facilitate Trammel players. Advocated items be in Felucca to con/scam ... well lets say facilitate Trammel Players being there. If the answer is yes, then .... my position stands and I accept you have no means to see any merit in my assertion.

Each of those two camps have the right to have their play style be the way they want it, not the way the Tweeners define their play style.

Well the beauty of UO as it is now is that players can mix and match how they play, regardless of how you or I define them. I've been called a lot worse than a Tweener on these forums hehe.

Wenchy

 

[Connor_Graham]

It's easy to say that if you aren't a new player.

It's even easier to say that since the opportunity was given to me. I'd been with the game for less than a year and was invited to join one of the larger PvP guilds on Pac. I'd met a few of the members while out hunting and over a short period of time, running into each other almost daily, they liked my helpful nature toward other players and asked me if I'd like to join their guild. I politely refused, informing them I wasn't interested in PvP, but offered to cut them a deal on supplies they used each day when out PvP'ing, and in turn they cut me a deal on quite a few of the PS's I needed. In fact, every 120 scroll on my Bard/Tamer, which includes Taming, Music, Disco, Provo, and Peace, were obtained from that guild, along with the 120 Archery my archer used, several +25 stat scrolls, and more.

You see, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I saved millions on scrolls, and they had a steady supply of cheap supplies, so they didn't have to waste time shopping from vendor to vendor to find what they needed.

 

[Dicimiie]

As a Trammie, I'd have to say I disagree with placing Powerscrolls in Trammel (via LBODS or any other way). Powerscrolls give something to Fel that nobody else has, and that is a good thing, even though it's being exploited by a select few people, which could be changed if a number of players really wanted to change it.

Anyone can go in to Fel and get powerscrolls. It might take some coordination and planning, but it can be done. I've never been a subscriber to the "don't want to have my butt handed to me by another player, so I won't even try it" crowd. I've been to a few champ runs, and I've been successful in getting a couple of scrolls. And I am absolutely horrible at PvP. Not a big deal.

On the subject of the "new player," I'd like to say two things:

1) How many new players are there really?

2) How difficult is it to make enough money to get powescrolls? I've seen a few ideas mentioned on how to get enough money. In my experience, even hanging out in Shame working on a hunter character can net you pretty decent money, assuming you grab the gems they drop. And after getting my mage to GM magery, eval and meditation, I took him to the Swoop spawn, and was getting a great deal of gold with little effort at all. Again, not a big deal.

In conclusion, I wish there was a whole lot less whining and complaining about what players don't have easy access to. Considering that you are playing a game that other people also play right along side you, I don't see what's so difficult in making some friends, grouping up and going out to do all of these so called "difficult" things. Just do it.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
I've been called a lot worse than a Tweener on these forums hehe.

Wenchy

First things first, as in priorities, I have attempted to make it clear that Tweeners is not a name, any more than PvPr's, PvMr's. It is nothing more than giving an Identity to a Play Style.

In this case, the Play Style is to be both, concurrently, Pro PvP and Pro PvM and trying to make PvP AND PvM exist in the same arena vs Oh say Hardcore PvP that delight in PKing PvMrs and Hardcore PvMrs that delight in seriously POing PKr's.

One could say that our goals are the same but our methods are different. I accept that they can not coexist and thus deserve the right to their own Environment. I perceive you want them to coexist and have a single environment. I also accept you wont define your position that way and I am ok with that. It simply defines why our methods are .... different.

I do not see the point of making two distinctly different facets, as exaggerated by this, Trammel has the Dragons in Destard as is. Felucca has the Dragons returned to Despise, where they originally were.

vs

Ok, Ore points in Fel and Tram are Random so they are different facets. Wood type in Fel and Tram are Random so they are different.

When you begin to include PvM/E Encounters as different then you begin to alter the perception of how easy/difficult the encounter is. This in turn leads to Felucca Saying "Trammel has all the Goodies". Trammel saying "Felucca has all the Goodies". It requires the UO Team to carry more code changes, requires Q/A to have more items on their list to Q/A. This is an escalation of the expenses the UO Team needs to justify.

The greater the expenses the lower the profit per subscription.

The lower the profit per subscription, the closer to the Turn Off Point.

Why would we want them encounter greater expenses that do NOT really contribute anything to long term entertainment?

 

[Turdnugget]

Dicimiie made an excellent point..

As a Trammie, I'd have to say I disagree with placing Powerscrolls in Trammel (via LBODS or any other way). Powerscrolls give something to Fel that nobody else has, and that is a good thing, even though it's being exploited by a select few people, which could be changed if a number of players really wanted to change it.

Even being a trammy he disagrees with allowing PS in Tram. I wouldn't necessarily say spawns are exploited nearly as much as other things. Yes, ghost cams are pretty low and ef'd up. But aside from the cheats/hacks/speeder you'll find anywhere else in game. That's about it as far as exploiting spawns as far as i've seen.

Now if a certain guild has a stranglehold on spawns... that's not really exploiting. It's just they have no life and killing others/stealing spawns/not working their own makes their E-pe...grow bigger if you get my drift.

Enigma, you need to learn the difference from a PvPer and a PK. Apparently from your posts you think everyone who likes to PvP IS a red PK as well. That's not so. Yes there is an abundant amount of reds. It's easier to take a count and take over a spawn then wait for the other person to flag first. Most reds have gone red in order to be attacked/and attack first while looking for PvP. There are plenty of bluebies out there who spawn as well. The guild i'm in for example. The majority are blue, for years you could say we had a stranglehold on spawns because we had lots of players on when the game was still somewhat thriving after champ spawns came out. It's died down slowly, but it's now picking back up. On my shard, not one guild really has the main stranglehold on spawns.

Sure you're more than likely to be raided by at least one person, but it's not a guarantee each time. It also depends on what time of day you spawn. A lot of people either go to school or work. If your server is overcrowded with one guild owning all the spawns, maybe you need a new server if you can't hack it there.

If you think exploits and cheats are bad with spawns now, I'll be you millions that it would be even more abused in Trammel. You see, in Fel you can STOP someone from using exploits/cheats during spawns. By simply killing them. In Trammel, the best you can do is try to page a GM... and we all know how that ends up. By the time they show up, the cheaters/exploiters have already done another 5 spawns and the GM will tell you to go post on UO.com or something to that effect.

PS value would also go down to practically nothing if you could farm them w/out any risk of being invaded. Let's mess up the economy even more thanks. This game isn't meant for everyone to be godly with 120's automatically. If you want that, play a free shard where you can do that. This game is meant to have some challenge. PS in Trammel would give nothing but a mass amount of PS into the market. Where is the fun in that? There would be no point to spawning as the value of scrolls would be crap. I'm sure Doom would become more crouded as artis would become more of a hot item. The only reason I do champ spawns is to sell the scrolls to make money to better my equipment. I hate item based UO, but i'm forced to PvM in order to keep up with the lameness there is in game now.

I would be ok with powerscrolls being obtained in a different manner other than Tram champ spawns. I mentioned earlier, not sure in this thread or another. But treasure maps that you get from Fel champ spawns, or buy them from people. That have to be dug up in Fel. But have a % chance to spawn a random PS from 10/15/20. Level 6 Maps have been bumped up with what guardians spawn. This would almost be as difficult as doing a champ... Ancient Wyrms, Balrons etc...Yeah it might be a little easier doing that. But you still run the risk of someone coming across you doing a treasure chest. On top of that you still have to kill the guardians somehow or another. Just an idea I thought would add some other way for those not wanting Fel champ spawn PvP and to revive the T-hunter as a way to make decent money. They ONCE were a really good cash cow. Not as much anymore.

 

[Wenchkin]

One could say that our goals are the same but our methods are different. I accept that they can not coexist and thus deserve the right to their own Environment. I perceive you want them to coexist and have a single environment. I also accept you wont define your position that way and I am ok with that. It simply defines why our methods are .... different.

I just see it as enabling choice and free travel really. I don't want to split from friends and community on both facets, or further fracture the community into smaller fragments.

When you begin to include PvM/E Encounters as different then you begin to alter the perception of how easy/difficult the encounter is. This in turn leads to Felucca Saying "Trammel has all the Goodies". Trammel saying "Felucca has all the Goodies". It requires the UO Team to carry more code changes, requires Q/A to have more items on their list to Q/A. This is an escalation of the expenses the UO Team needs to justify.

The greater the expenses the lower the profit per subscription.

The lower the profit per subscription, the closer to the Turn Off Point.

I think UO has gone too far down the "mouldable by player whine" road in all honesty. It's like a kid in the sweet shop who knows his mum will spoil him. He's never going to be happy with what he gets, because she'll consistently give in to his demands as they escalate. If she said no and stuck with it as appropriate, the kid would be less bratty in the store. He'd ask for things respectfully and appreciate that she can't afford sweets all the time. But that's the UHall mentality now.

I say put new things in both facets but let us earn them in different ways. Then we all get those goodies but choose the how and where in obtaining them We all pay our subs. So we should all be treated roughly the same, right? Even if we got a proportion of the dev time based on the Fel population #, we'd have more content than we do now. Heck, half the time recently all I've asked for here is to mirror an event NPC or turn in box on the other facet. In other words they won't even do the mirror facet thing you suggest. We probably aren't worth a full on mirroring dev pass either. Think about the time they'd need to take to fully go through each facet on each shard watching out for unique areas and meticulously copying everything. I think they'd rather add bits and pieces in small chunks over a period, ideally along with adding content elsewhere.

But, if EA aren't willing to spend money on Fel at all I guess we get option 3, slow starvation. I just want something better than what we have, or in many cases just acknowledgment that we exist. Or "sorry guys, we don't want you" so we can collectively quit and play where we are wanted We don't tend to get a "sorry" when we're disregarded a lot of the time. How many times have Siege players had to nudge the devs about content? Surely if you develop a game you pay attention to the fact it has different facets and shards - as a minimum Guys you missed a bit... again, ooh and there's another you missed... lol.

Wenchy

 

[Fizzleton]

As a Trammie, I'd have to say I disagree with placing Powerscrolls in Trammel (via LBODS or any other way). Powerscrolls give something to Fel that nobody else has, and that is a good thing.

Yes, therefore my suggestion, let the 115/120 and stat scrolls remain there.

, even though it's being exploited by a select few people, which could be changed if a number of players really wanted to change it.

This is an assumption I can tell you that is not correct. I did pvp, on both sides, and I know very well who wins and who loses. Put straight: There is such a tremendous gap between true PvP-Chars/Guilds and others (skills/stats/equipment/experience/teamwork) that even veterans who know game mechanics well enough are easily killed if they find their way to fel. Sometimes, there happens something you describe; the guild UCH on Europa was build this way (blue players coming together to break the domination of other guilds on champs). However, we want players to have fun and we don't want to frustrate especially new players by saying: IF you want to have power scrolls, FIRST you have to build a char that is pvp-competitive (skills, stats, equip), SECOND you have to team up with lots of other players to do champs! This is ridiculous, imho; if you do that at the end of the development path (towards 120er scrolls etc.), I think it's ok, but definately not for 105/110 scrolls.

Anyone can go in to Fel and get powerscrolls. It might take some coordination and planning, but it can be done..

What I said before. Sure you can do, but in most cases, the end is well known.

I've never been a subscriber to the "don't want to have my butt handed to me by another player, so I won't even try it" crowd. I've been to a few champ runs, and I've been successful in getting a couple of scrolls. And I am absolutely horrible at PvP. Not a big deal..

Not to you, but maybe to others. By the way: When did you go to Fel, after how many months/years of gameplay? How did your char look like? How much help from others did you get?

On the subject of the "new player," I'd like to say two things:

1) How many new players are there really?.

Do you know? Tell me! And plz tell me also their reasons not to go on with uo! We have a tremendous gap in the mid-range gameplay; devs know that and try to implement helpfull content (eg the virtue armor). This should be done more intensively, and I would suggest to throw in some more, in this case the 105/110er skill scrolls.

2) How difficult is it to make enough money to get powescrolls? I've seen a few ideas mentioned on how to get enough money. In my experience, even hanging out in Shame working on a hunter character can net you pretty decent money, assuming you grab the gems they drop. And after getting my mage to GM magery, eval and meditation, I took him to the Swoop spawn, and was getting a great deal of gold with little effort at all. Again, not a big deal.

This is a point Connor made before I can't follow. Of course you can make the money to buy scrolls, but this is not the way the game should be designed for! Fighting a champ spawn and killing the champ finally is rewarded with scrolls; this is the idea, not doing swoopies for ages and THEN buy it! You should be able to get your own scrolls, to put it plain and simple, by doing champs. So plz, get the point: Devide them between lower end ones (105/110) given on Tram champs, and the higher ones remaining to fel.

In conclusion, I wish there was a whole lot less whining and complaining about what players don't have easy access to. Considering that you are playing a game that other people also play right along side you, I don't see what's so difficult in making some friends, grouping up and going out to do all of these so called "difficult" things. Just do it.

This is the attitude that will kill UO imho. Vets who claim newbs shouldn't whine but try. The plug will be pulled with lots of self-satisfied vets not caring for the future of this game. Not the first time dinosaurs get killed rolleyes:

regards

 

[CatLord]

"How many newcomers..." Do you know? Tell me! And plz tell me also their reasons not to go on with uo! We have a tremendous gap in the mid-range gameplay; devs know that and try to implement helpfull content (eg the virtue armor). This should be done more intensively, and I would suggest to throw in some more, in this case the 105/110er skill scrolls.

May to October 2007
Catskills:
1131 new characters started their careers in New Haven and got some help from several players.
http://www.uoforums.com/f1545/magik-academy-39931/
(we got the visit of a former developer and the name of the new haven inn changed on all shards... maybe a tribute to our collossal effort... maybe a coincidence... only the devs know )

May to September 2008
Catskills:
Under 350 new characters started their careers in New Haven... we still provide the same guidance... now under new management. :bowdown:


I have done most of what you can do in UO...

Content wise:
- from the nights fighting FoA non-stop to prevent Armageddon, dueled Keeonean on the root of the Yew winnery (only to be killed by a drow)... to Melissa and the new rising Evil...

Quests:
- ...

PVM:
- ...

PvP:
- ...

Community:
- events, train newcomers, take them to new hunting grounds, take them to Felluca for powerscrolls...


And we, veterans, we all know... UO discriminates newcomers.

The rules allow monopoly of Felluca... and even those are broken by all the known methods.
Getting artefacts is now somewhat fair (DEVS you rock!)


But my main question is this...

Why should UO be about money making and gold collecting? just curious...


I still think 105-110s should be given randomly by bods...


Enjoy:
http://town.uo.com/bnn/article_499.html

 

[Wenchkin]

If I expect a scroll from BODs I expect tailoring or smithy ones not some random 5 or 10 I don't need or want. The chances of getting the scroll you wanted at the right level would be rediculously slim, and you'd burn a stack of resources to get there. Resources which take time to collect like gold does. So I'm not sure how your option is easier. Buying leather from a scripter to fill BODs or buying the scroll from a Fel player up front. That's toss a coin stuff.

On Europa these scrolls are left around banks on the floor and sold by plenty of vendors for about 500gp a +5 and 1-2k for the +10s. I've seen 100gp and 500gp for 5's and 10's respectively too. Even a fresh player can afford to buy or pick these things up, the 5's being blessed and available from the spawn right at the start of the champ and onwards. Blessed virtue armour set, hit the level 1 spawn (usually takes a few levels before anyone will consider raiding) and you could happily collect stacks with zero risk. The +5s are blessed, so if you die you still have the scrolls and your equipment.

There are easy, free options out there if players would just play the game a little.

Wenchy

 

[It Lives]

If I expect a scroll from BODs I expect tailoring or smithy ones not some random 5 or 10 I don't need or want. The chances of getting the scroll you wanted at the right level would be rediculously slim, and you'd burn a stack of resources to get there. Resources which take time to collect like gold does. So I'm not sure how your option is easier. Buying leather from a scripter to fill BODs or buying the scroll from a Fel player up front. That's toss a coin stuff.

On Europa these scrolls are left around banks on the floor and sold by plenty of vendors for about 500gp a +5 and 1-2k for the +10s. I've seen 100gp and 500gp for 5's and 10's respectively too. Even a fresh player can afford to buy or pick these things up, the 5's being blessed and available from the spawn right at the start of the champ and onwards. Blessed virtue armour set, hit the level 1 spawn (usually takes a few levels before anyone will consider raiding) and you could happily collect stacks with zero risk. The +5s are blessed, so if you die you still have the scrolls and your equipment.

There are easy, free options out there if players would just play the game a little.

Wenchy

Yay for Europa?

Anything that prevents a player from advancing in skill(bad game mechanics/ other players) is deer pellets.

power scrolls(all of them) need replaced period.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I think UO has gone too far down the "mouldable by player whine" road in all honesty. It's like a kid in the sweet shop who knows his mum will spoil him. He's never going to be happy with what he gets, because she'll consistently give in to his demands as they escalate. If she said no and stuck with it as appropriate, the kid would be less bratty in the store. He'd ask for things respectfully and appreciate that she can't afford sweets all the time. But that's the UHall mentality now.

I just deleted ... a lot of reply.

Short version, I prefer to be a centrist, I believe the Tweeners are inherently centrist. But like all things, there are at the very least two sides, one side cuts destructively, the other side cuts constructively.

What I want is for the Felucca Play Style to be defined by the Feluccans.

I want the Trammel Play Style to be defined by the Tramellians.

I want the UO Team to start enhancing the two play styles for what they are and NOT percieve balance as Ok They have X, there for you get Y.

I want it to be a slam dunk, BOTH get X and Y, no contest.

I want that to FREE the UO Team to be able to enhance PvP and to enhance PvM to listen to set aside communities/shards and enhance them as is appropriate to the spirit of why they were set aside.

Edited to add: I want the UO Team to use that Free Time to get rid of the Scriptors, Hackers, Cheaters, Exploiters.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Make a "Ultimate power Scroll" title ultimate warrior for swords skill. 130 ps (just an example)

Give me something to do again ,,,,,,,,,,,Only one skill can be scrolled(same ole skill caps 720). One per char.

Make the scroll an award for pvp, used only in fel, cant be brought to tram.

The skill is brought back to 120 when coming to tram.

Then let tram have some scroll love for freaking sakes.

The way I see it:

• I already consider 120 power scrolls pretty useless in most cases. The advantage fo 120 above 110 skill is so minimal it doesn't really affect PvP much.
• 98% of the players don't want to go to Felucca, as long as there's rule bending and cheating in this facet. Even 130 scrolls wouldn't change that.
• Why limit the scrolls to Felucca players? To make mass-ganking of Trammel adventurers even more easy? Aren't speed hacks and other cheats enough already? This surely wouldn't help bringing Trammel players to Felucca.

1) the percentage of Felucca players is much, much higher then 2%. If only 2% of the population was in Felucca there would be no scroll discussion as the 'supposed' overwhelming(98%)majority of Trammelites would just be able to head over to Felucca 24/7 and work any spawn they want with no concerns. Even taking into account the FACT that Trammelites have 0 ability to handle and kind of pressure or real combat(kinda the main reason they are Trammelites no?)

2) there is absolutely just as much rule bending & cheating in Trammel as there is in Felucca. There is also just as much rudeness and general griefing. Spend 5 minutes at any Trammel hotspot and you will see what I mean. People lure & trashtalk like mad everywhere in Trammel.

3) scrolls are not in Felucca to promote "mass-ganking" as you blindly state. Mass ganking happens when ill-equipped people with little skill attempt to do something they know nothing about. Scrolls have no connection to ganking.
Why is it that 24/7 in Trammel you can find huge groups of people chaining Peerless such as Lady Mel yet these same people cant group together to obtain the scrolls they so covet?

If you lack skill and/or knowledge and want huge rewards such as crimson cinctures and hair dyes,etc.. you can do this all day long in Trammel.
You cannot however get Powerscrolls if you lack skill or knowledge. This is as it has always been and damn sure as it should always be.

Sell your crimsons & other Peerless loot and buy what you are unable to get yourself or stfu maybe?

 

[Traveller]

The way I see it:

Err... I really think the lust for scrolls is clouding your judgement. There are some arguments that could be used in favor of moving PS from fel, or at least for champs, but what you write above is just weakening your position.

More specifically:

The way I see it:
- I already consider 120 power scrolls pretty useless in most cases. The advantage fo 120 above 110 skill is so minimal it doesn't really affect PvP much.

so says the expert pvper. Whatever value 120 have, they are much more needed by pvpers than pvmers. In pvm you fight overpowered monsters with not much intelligence and predictable behavior. The 120 skills won't change that, they will just make that monster a little less overpowing. Granted, sometime you need 115 to try barding or taming some monsters. Not 120.

On the other hand, pvp is a contest between two equal entities as clever as you (sometimes more) with the same potential ability as you. Any edge you leave to him is putting yourself at a disadvantage, no matter how small. That includes the skill points.

The way I see it:
- 98% of the players don't want to go to Felucca, as long as there's rule bending and cheating in this facet. Even 130 scrolls wouldn't change that.

Whoever read that number should realize how worthy this opinion is. While I am well prepared to believe that fel players are the minority, you SERIOUSLY have to come up with better numbers (and accept the consequences). Last dev word was that SIEGE players were 3% of the UO players. The conclusion about the value of your numbers is obvious.

- Why limit the scrolls to Felucca players? To make mass-ganking of Trammel adventurers even more easy?

?? Didn't you just say that the difference between 120 and 110 is minimal??

 

[Dicimiie]

This is an assumption I can tell you that is not correct. I did pvp, on both sides, and I know very well who wins and who loses. Put straight: There is such a tremendous gap between true PvP-Chars/Guilds and others (skills/stats/equipment/experience/teamwork) that even veterans who know game mechanics well enough are easily killed if they find their way to fel. Sometimes, there happens something you describe; the guild UCH on Europa was build this way (blue players coming together to break the domination of other guilds on champs). However, we want players to have fun and we don't want to frustrate especially new players by saying: IF you want to have power scrolls, FIRST you have to build a char that is pvp-competitive (skills, stats, equip), SECOND you have to team up with lots of other players to do champs! This is ridiculous, imho; if you do that at the end of the development path (towards 120er scrolls etc.), I think it's ok, but definately not for 105/110 scrolls.

To be honest, from a lot of players, when they say it's too difficult to go and get your own powerscrolls because of X guild controlling the spawns, what I hear is "damn... why didn't I think of that?" There is nothing... I repeat nothing stopping anyone from doing exactly what the controlling guilds are doing. I read the boards frequently, and I see the powerscroll issue brought up all the time, and yet none of the players do anything about it.

What I said before. Sure you can do, but in most cases, the end is well known.

I don't believe that. Get a large group together and do the champs. Set up some sort of system for distributing the powerscrolls if you take a large group to do it. Have fun with it. This isn't a new concept. WoW has large raids where nice items drop, and the guilds that do these raids set up a distribution system for these items. Not rocket science.

Not to you, but maybe to others. By the way: When did you go to Fel, after how many months/years of gameplay? How did your char look like? How much help from others did you get?

I ran with a guild doing champ spawns about 6 months after AoS came out. My character was a straight LJ warrior that wore GM made plate armor that had horrid stats, and a weapon that was subpar as well. There were about a dozen of us that went, and when we were finished, we rolled dice (available in game) and the highest roll got first pick of the scrolls, next highest got second pick, and so on. The system was simple and worked well.

Do you know? Tell me! And plz tell me also their reasons not to go on with uo! We have a tremendous gap in the mid-range gameplay; devs know that and try to implement helpfull content (eg the virtue armor). This should be done more intensively, and I would suggest to throw in some more, in this case the 105/110er skill scrolls.

I'm guessing not a whole lot. And there are several reasons for the lack of new players, and I'm pretty confident (though not certain) that the lack of available powerscrolls for new players is way down on the list of reasons.

This is a point Connor made before I can't follow. Of course you can make the money to buy scrolls, but this is not the way the game should be designed for! Fighting a champ spawn and killing the champ finally is rewarded with scrolls; this is the idea, not doing swoopies for ages and THEN buy it! You should be able to get your own scrolls, to put it plain and simple, by doing champs. So plz, get the point: Devide them between lower end ones (105/110) given on Tram champs, and the higher ones remaining to fel.

Honestly... is the first priority for a new player going to be getting powerscrolls? I would think their first priority would be to play the game, get familiar with it, and work their skills up to where they can do pretty well. As far as powerscrolls go, I have six characters on my home shard, and only two of them have eaten any scrolls. One of them is my crafter, who has had the fortune of getting 120 smith and tailor scrolls, and the other character is my mage, who found a 110 magery scroll and used it. The warrior I mentioned above didn't utilize the powerscrolls he got. I actually gave them to a friend because they were useless to me at the time.

This is the attitude that will kill UO imho. Vets who claim newbs shouldn't whine but try. The plug will be pulled with lots of self-satisfied vets not caring for the future of this game. Not the first time dinosaurs get killed rolleyes:

The concept that as a new player, you should find friends and group to have a good time will kill UO? Considering this is a multiplayer game, I would expect that grouping up and making friends is a logical choice. Can you give me the name of one MMORPG that doesn't need a group to get the better gear or items?

 

[Crystal Canyon]

Hello, my name is Crystal, and Im a....tweener. LOL

First I guess I should apoligize for being an obstacle to our great game by electing to play all sides of the game. My bad!

I have to agree that there is nothing stopping any player from going to Fel and getting Power Scrolls instead of buying them.

I am basically a Trammie and have purchased many many power scrolls from vendors but...when I decided that I wanted to go get some for myself, I simply joined a guild that did PS and went with them.

The way I see it, it is a balanced situation with the PS in Fel. They have the power scrolls and us Trammies, have the vendorhouses and Doom.

Now if you look at the selling price of some of the items that come out of Doom and compare them to the price of ANY Power Scroll, the Doom artifacts will bring a heftier price by far. So who is actually going to make the most profit ? Those who are hunting Fel Spawns or those who are spending thier UO time hunting Tram Doom?

Anyone can play both sides of the game....you have 5 to 7 characters! Most people will make at least one of those characters a mule, sometimes more, but what do you do ith the remainder? SImple...you create characters for what you want to use them for. One or two for Fel Players, one or two for PVM,.... and a thief! LOL

I know, I know, maybe you dont want to be labeled as a "Tweener" but hey, its fun as hell....you get the best of both worlds!

 

[sorner]

I think power scrolls should stay in Fel. However, i'm curious what people think if the devs changed them from being cursed to blessed?

More people would be willing to do champs instead of only a few since there's a chance for a reward - you don't necessarily need to survive until the end. a larger number of people would also mean that Fel crowd would have a larger number of people to pvp. i over-read a conversation in Luna once where someone was lamenting that its always the same people by Yew gate.

one thing I see is that some pkers hang around the fringes, waiting for the champ to go down to almost zero health, then gank. I imagine they quickly kill off the champ then loot the corpses for the scrolls. I don't know - I'm looking for a rez at that point! blessed powerscrolls would make that unprofitable.

it shouldn't impact the economy since the blessed scrolls would be owned by someone - just not necessarily the raider.

it would NOT discourage raiding. successful raiders would still get the gold and the skull, as well as a smaller chance for power scrolls. for a higher chance at the powerscrolls, raiders would need to attack earlier rather than waiting until the end. This may lead to a more dynamic interplay at the champs where control changes hands several times.

The above may be a bad idea since I haven't had a lot of time thinking about the pros and cons (I'm typing this in my computer class), but I'd be interested in other peoples' opinion. Time for the lab exercises, so I gotta stop my reply...

 

[Traveller]

I think power scrolls should stay in Fel. However, i'm curious what people think if the devs changed them from being cursed to blessed?

So you kill what remains of the thief. Even besides it, my answer is no. While I do agree that it wopuldn't discourage raiding, securing the scroll (i.e. escaping alive) is part of pvp.

 

[sorner]

So you kill what remains of the thief. Even besides it, my answer is no. While I do agree that it wopuldn't discourage raiding, securing the scroll (i.e. escaping alive) is part of pvp.

since I don't have a thief, I didn't consider their role! so that puts a HUGE hole into that one! no point fixing one thing, only to break another.

 

[Bardie]

seriously someone stop making new posts about this....scrolls will never belong in tram

/thread

ps do i need to start name calling and ect to get this thread locked?

 

[CatLord]

Funny you mention that...

The usual procedure was:
two posters starting a verbal war on these threads and they got locked down.

But back then the uo gold was over $9,99 now at $0,70 we have less caring brokers...

I got several emails from fellow players...
Some asked me to stop posting about this, others wanted to discuss this and a few asked why during all these years nothing was ever done...

Well DEVS... and fellow UO players... you all wandered why UO isnt attractive to the newblood... why it is dismissed after a few months... now you know we're to blame...

... the Veterans.

 

[Magdalene]

But of course.
How can one possibly have/be/know on startup what took other people 10 years to get? In some cases 10 years of very dedicated gameplay on multiple accounts?

The error is elsewhere - what one gets after years should not be a requirement to play, it should be slight advantage, status symbol, something over the usual without giving anything crucial. Things like ethies, powerscrolls, very high end suits and weapons (arties, runics) are not a luxury but a requirement to play in half-decent and entertaining way. And this is not vet's fault but who designed the system. (disclaimer: I know they exist, but not everyone is satisfied roleplaying a beggar)

 

[CatLord]

Any idea how it can be fixed?

Maybe next Halloween the Devs find the solution!

It is Devils night after all!

 

[Magdalene]

Not halloween - Saturnalia (around New Year's Eve) - when servants turn masters

Between you and me?
I'd scrap the AoS stuff from weapons and armour, up the overall skill cap to 700 perhaps (for everyone) and cap for every elegible skill to 120 - and make powerscrolls highly useful in getting to Legendary level of actual skill, not the cap. Don't ask for details, this is not a serious proposal, just rambling here.

 

[CatLord]

K Devs... you heard the Boss...

Get to it!

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

But of course.
How can one possibly have/be/know on startup what took other people 10 years to get? In some cases 10 years of very dedicated gameplay on multiple accounts?
...

I would add to the above this

Those that returned to UO within the last year that had left, oh say shortly after Trammel, return to a UO that on the surface looks the same but what is under the surface has almost nothing in common with the UO they left.

It might have been better to have a total mind wipe of how to play UO as a noob than to try to play UO as a Returnie.

To constantly stumble on the point of this quote - paraphrased a bit.

"It isn't what you do not know that will be a problem, it is what you know to be true that is NOT true that will get you every single time"

It is a series of stumbles on things one believed to be true that end up not being true any longer.

...
Between you and me?
I'd scrap the AoS stuff from weapons and armour, up the overall skill cap to 700 perhaps (for everyone) and cap for every elegible skill to 120 - and make powerscrolls highly useful in getting to Legendary level of actual skill, not the cap. Don't ask for details, this is not a serious proposal, just rambling here.

*Shrug*

Game design has an issue that is not easily dealt with.

There must be a equipment/abilities base line you use for the player when you design a Mob/Encounter.

When this base line is changed to incorporate an item(s) then you have made the item(s) a requirement for the player to have, in order to play the encounter as designed. (one should see clearly that does NOT say the encounter can ONLY be played as it was designed to be played)

Let me use Everquest as an example of ... one path.

You get the base release of EQ. The Boss mobs of that base release drops items that enable the encounter to be ... more equal. Of course these items also almost immediately trivialize the rest of the Base Release Encounters.

The Player Base grows restless and demands things be made more entertaining.

You design a set of zones that have as a base line the Items dropped from the Base Release Boss Mobs. You then enhance the Encounter to 25% over that to make it a .... meaningful encounter.

The players enter the zone and have their heads handed to them more frequently than they find .... entertaining.

You drop the 25% to 10%.

The players are now winning and seeing "Crap" for loot.

You now put in items that put the player on an equal footing with the Encounter.

From here on out just rinse and repeat the scenario, regardless of it being a new zone or a new expansion.

In the end you get a game with far more expansions that all the other games put together. You get a land base (aka Encounters) that far exceeds all the other games.

You get a game were the nominal player is vastly superior to previous expansions/zones, to the extent that these new players can not comprehend why these previous expansions/zones are not on a par with the current expansion/zones.

You get a game were there are 4 times the number of players on a given world than on a given UO shard and no one can find anyone else because they are so spread out. In an exaggeration, it is as though there is a Trammel or Felucca for every individual. That in 99.9% of that environment NOTHING CAN HURT YOU. You might just as well be in God Mode.

You become a Horse with a Pole Glued to its head, that has a Line glued to the end of the Pole, that has a Carrot tied to the end of the Line, that is dangling ever so deliciously one foot in front of your nose and your forever trying to catch it.

It is a path, it is not a path I like (obviously I am here), but it is a proven money maker for the game owner.

Personally I would far prefer that the Encounters become more Entertaining by virtue of being more intelligent than by simply re skinning Mob's, upping their hit points, upping their damage, upping defense etc, causing an upgrade to the Player Base Line Itemization/Abilities.

Some might say that PvP is the answer and I would agree if in Fact it were PvP and NOT Item vs Item, Hack vs Hack, Cheat vs Cheat, Exploit vs Exploit, Gangs vs 1 etc.

 

[Traveller]

The error is elsewhere - what one gets after years should not be a requirement to play, it should be slight advantage, status symbol, something over the usual without giving anything crucial.

Magdaline, while I do agree with the statement above....

Things like ethies, powerscrolls, very high end suits and weapons (arties, runics) are not a luxury but a requirement to play in half-decent and entertaining way.

...this statement is true for PS only up to 115. And the most expensive +15, costs how much? About 1 mil? Acquiring one mil is probably much faster than training taming to 100... Or are you seriously stating that with 120 are something more than a status symbol (for pvm)?

 

[Wenchkin]

Yay for Europa?

Anything that prevents a player from advancing in skill(bad game mechanics/ other players) is deer pellets.

power scrolls(all of them) need replaced period.

Well, I've always felt the basic system of requiring an item to enable you to train further was borked, but players like myself who said as much were ignored when PS were implimented, and we kinda need to live with that. I'd have chosen a desirable reward, but not a skill cap increase one like the PS.

I wouldn't object if players all got 120 skill caps as standard and we got either our old dungeons repared and tarted up, or we got a different set of rewards for the champs. But a mirrored PS spawn in Tram would be camped, scrolls becoming worthless in short measure and Fel sitting in a sorry state because PS weren't worth hunting for on either facet.

Where the system has fallen down IMO is that >GM is required for certain skills when fighting basic mobs. And a lack of foresight in figuring that eventually the majority of players would be scrolling characters and thus raising the requirement for all players who wish to compete. If you're going to make something hard to get, you should remember not to make it a necessity for some skills to have them. And think about how the future playing field would look once items filtered through the whole game.

Wenchy

 

[Traveller]

I am astounded how often I do agree with Wenchkin. This is one of those. I suppose that makes me a "Tweener"... *shrugs*

PS were a bad solution to the fel reward, but now that we have it it's not that easy to say "move them to trammel". It' like saying that since AoS was badly implemented we should get rid of it. As much as I would agree I have also enough sense to understand that doing it now would wreck more than it would mend.

Pandora's box is open, closing it won't change things. If you are smart you'll look deeper into it and find something positive from it. I know I did.

 

[CatLord]

You dont think it is possible to figure a way to fix it.
Destroy the grasp on the monopoly.
Improve the fun.
Allow everyone a chance at them... no matter how long the battle would be?

I dont see the devs going for anti-cheat procedures... if they dont plan to balance pvp by removing the extra programs being used... the least we can ask is... Justice.

 

[Turdnugget]

I dont see the devs going for anti-cheat procedures... if they dont plan to balance pvp by removing the extra programs being used... the least we can ask is... Justice.

Are you referring to moving PS to Trammel as well so people could get scrolls w/out dying to hacks/cheats/exploits? How in the hell would that solve it and give justice? If you're going to Trammel to get PS you're more than likely NOT going to go back to Fel to PvP because there is no need since you can get what you want w/out risk of being raided.

 

[Nystul]

The powerscroll system in felucca is the last thread that pvp in UO is hanging on by.

If they removed/changed that then pvp has no reason anymore. Maybe thier plans for revamped factions could give it two threads, but I doubt it.

They know it just as well as the rest of us, and despite what people think, they arn't stupid enough to change it.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

You dont think it is possible to figure a way to fix it.
Destroy the grasp on the monopoly.
Improve the fun.
Allow everyone a chance at them... no matter how long the battle would be?

I dont see the devs going for anti-cheat procedures... if they dont plan to balance pvp by removing the extra programs being used... the least we can ask is... Justice.

Of course there are solutions.

You could redo the drops to be on any mob in Felucca this disabling the kill zone/box that is in effect today.

You could put the PS's in Trammel and despite the end of the world predictions Felucca is NOT going to go away and will have one less Albatross around its neck weighing it down.

To hear the PvPr's whine, if you put PS's in Trammel then you might as well make Felucca Trammel Rules. How very interesting to portray Felucca's value as being exclusively the PS's.

I can even accept that as long as the context is Gold Selling for Real Life Currency.

 

[Nystul]

Allow everyone a chance at them... no matter how long the battle would be?

Everyone DOES have a chance at them, how do you fail to understand that?

 

[CatLord]

I understand everyone has a chance at PS.

I also know exactly that the majority of the pvpers and duelists cheat... and then post their pictures ignoring that alot can be seen about their profiles and thought process...

Pvp became an ego trip for some... a way of making $ for others...

I refuse to jump from guild to guild so I can spawn...
I refuse to backstab any GM just because his guild cant spawn...

I refuse to use third party programs... even if that gets me killed alot more.
I refuse to use tools to cast faster... even if that makes me a bad duelist.

My choice was to play UO the way it is written on the ToS...

If everyone did that... this war and discrimination would not exist...

The devs ruined the value of most items... I believe there is a purpose behind this... a purpose that will lead to balance and fairness...

A slap to all the cheaters...

Powerscrolls in Trammel... somehow...

 

[Traveller]

To hear the PvPr's whine, if you put PS's in Trammel then you might as well make Felucca Trammel Rules. How very interesting to portray Felucca's value as being exclusively the PS's.

You really think you made sense in this statement? I have got an excellent idea. Let's remove every reward (gold, runics, arties, whatever) from Trammel, then let's see how many people stay there. "How very interesting to portray Trammel's value as being exclusively" his rewards.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

You really think you made sense in this statement? I have got an excellent idea. Let's remove every reward (gold, runics, arties, whatever) from Trammel, then let's see how many people stay there. "How very interesting to portray Trammel's value as being exclusively" his rewards.

Well it is a good thing that it is a free board You can make anything you want of yourself

Ok, one of yours says Remove PS from Felucca and you remove all reasons to PvP in Felucca. You blame me for making the statement nice trick.

The powerscroll system in felucca is the last thread that pvp in UO is hanging on by.

If they removed/changed that then pvp has no reason anymore.

You say that Putting Ps's in Trammel is equal to Remove PS's from Felucca is being equal to removing every item from Trammel.

Muwhahahaha, veery good job there. Glad it works for you

 

[CatLord]

There is an "ad-hoc" error there... isnt it?

I'm glad so many are aware of the truth behind many of the statements...

If for nothing else all of the UO players in my icq list read this thread and are now re-thinking why they play this game... I would too.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
up the overall skill cap to 700 perhaps (for everyone) and cap for every elegible skill to 120
...

I wanted to think about that.

So they could just set every ones Skill Cap to 700 and set individual skill caps to 720.

This gets them out of the box they are in, as in let them have a symmetrical base line for all players.

 

[Dragkiris]

The problem with UO is everyone wants big reward/no risk. Your right we should take champ spawns away from pvpers cause the trammys should not have to risk being pk'd. I mean what do you loose 4k? Its called item insurance. If you cant afford that you dont need powerscrolls in the first place. Powerscrolls are the only thing in fel worth fighting over. So what if some ppl speedhack and spawncam, I dont but i still fight them. It doesnt make them unbeatable it just means you have to fight them smart. Give us something better to fight over then by all means move powerscrolls to tram. But your generalization that all pvpers just want to ruin the game for everyone else is disgusting. For very important items there should be substantial risk to get them. IE being pk'd. Or buy them. All that peerless and doom drops are way to powerfull for the non-existant risk there is in getting them. People like you are ruining the game by wanting handouts.