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Bring back looting...

L

Lord Kynd

Guest
...

In Fel... fine.

In Tram... no deal.

sure , i agree to this... just give's me one more good reason to not go to Fel. :)

and if it happened in Tram, it would be a really good reason not to log in and play even.

they removed this crap for a reason, mainly becuase people like to grief other players. that and no one wants to loose something they worked hard for.. sorry this doesn't apply to the insta-gratification people ..
 
R

Remy_of_GOR

Guest
You can already loot blue corpses in Trammel.
ya, and anyone in the thieves guild can be looted in trammel-with no timer on the corpse.

by the rants here, it MUST be that the members of the thieves guild are griefed every day due to trammel looting. why do these trammel players support a system that allows grief to a particular class? why are they so much better that they cant be looted? if thieves 'have no risk', then why are they against being lootable in tram like the 'no-risk' thieves?
 
C

Connor_Graham

Guest
if thieves 'have no risk', then why are they against being lootable in tram like the 'no-risk' thieves?
Because thieves can perform their primary function and steal while naked. No other skillset can perform a primary function while having absolutely nothing on them. If a thief dies, there's nothing of his to loot because he didn't need anything to begin with.
 
S

ShadowJack

Guest
And I'll keep posting that you should bugger of to siege :)
By your own argument, how about they make AOL legends an all trammel shard, and you can go there?



This isn't about moving to SP it's about changing gameplay dynamics to make it a little more risky.



Personally I don't think you should be able to loot in trammel without some way to protect new players.


I have to agree with conner on that one (gasp)



besides by your own sig


if you have to rez will full ubergear in fel just to play or fight someone, then you def aren't that cool.



I remember getting my dexy raised sometimes and grabbing some bandies and a sword and killing people that hat chainmail or leather on, just because I switched to a dif wep or changed my method of fighting (ie kryss against mages, warfork, or spear, or war hammer or war axe for macing)



you can learn to be good without a full everquest suit



EQ = not cool


UO is EQ's ******* baby now.
 
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Remy_of_GOR

Guest
Because thieves can perform their primary function and steal while naked. No other skillset can perform a primary function while having absolutely nothing on them. If a thief dies, there's nothing of his to loot because he didn't need anything to begin with.
dexers dont need anything either with a blessed weapon, which most have.

any bard can function with only their blessed instrument.

i remember dying with more on me than any of my targets. why? because the majority of the loot i stole stayed on me because i didnt really want it. and why is your armor a risk but mine isnt?
 

Demonous

Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
i used to tell people i couldnt rez in tram dungeons then wait for their body to go bones and loot it :)
 

EnigmaMaitreya

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
...yes, I know, I know, looters are mean, and looters take things off corpses that you would rather keep, but come on. Even in Trammel, only looting came in as a close second to thieving.

A player dies...their corpse is blue. *start the timer*
Let the 7 minute timer (or it used be that long) and let the corpse turn to bones. At this time, let the corpse be free to loot. It gives each player some time to retrieve their belongings, but at the same time, it allows other players to camp the corpse. 7 minutes in game time is plenty of time to get rezzed and back, but why not allow there be a little thing (other players) to get some more adventure into the game. If Trammel is off touch, at least make it so in Felucca (or all of Siege).

Come on folks, get behind this...I miss guilds like LuT, I miss players like Galad...you know you do too...la
In case anyone thinks the following scenario is ... Fictitious, then be advised this is how things were done in the BAD OLD DAYS of UO. The mechanism was Push Through. Ever wonder why they removed that penalty?

A Scenario.

BAD (as opposed GOOD) Feluccans go to Trammel and find a player.

They Lure Mob's on the player (A VIOLATION OF THE RoC).

The Player Dies.

The BAD Feluccans keep the Mob camping the Players Corpse. (*Shrug if is my Scenario :) ) Why not, with Energy Fields, Poison Fields, Detect Hidden etc :)

The Corpse decay's to bones. (My Scenario :) ) the Stealth up to the Corpse and loot it. Another Player Invis the Looter and off they go to find another Victim.

The Player reports the incident and some hours later gets informed that, "Sorry but there is nothing I can do because the Names in UO are not unique. Hence I can not determine who did this".

The point is the Rules either deteriorate to Anrachy/Chaos OR there is an increase in the real, physical presence of Baby Sitters. This of course will increase the Operational Costs of the Game.
 
C

Connor_Graham

Guest
dexers dont need anything either with a blessed weapon, which most have.
You must be talking about Siege because I can't remember the last time I saw someone with a blessed weapon. Besides, that's not the point.




any bard can function with only their blessed instrument.
Again, you must be talking about Siege because I have NEVER seen a blessed instrument on production shards. What would be the point?


i remember dying with more on me than any of my targets. why? because the majority of the loot i stole stayed on me because i didnt really want it. and why is your armor a risk but mine isnt?
The point was that theives don't need armor. They don't need weapons. They don't need instruments or bandages. They don't need a damn thing except the skill points. Thus, nothing to lose, everything to gain = No Risk.
 
S

ShadowJack

Guest
with no armor or resists they would be dropped fast in todays world. You're still thinking of the old thief without this new stuff.



most of them will get dropped before they even get a chance to steal I'd warrant


hell the blues get pkd and ganked before they even get a chance to fight in most cases.


with no means of magery or healing they're dead ducks

with no means of offense ...dead


the only thing a thief should have going for them is the ability to hide and get away


who knows what would happen now



but you really think a thief doesn't need items in today's UO?????



You're flippin crazy




Not really getting your pov Conner



And you would make a good thief, hell con is part of your name ^^
 

It Lives

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
all outdated arguments
Yes outdated like the "can we have retro" arguments.

Outdated like the few vets that still cant push thru and adapt to a game that has passed them by.

Anti-social behavior is as wanted in game as a STD.

The last thing I want ever to see again is the mass abuse of body blocking, luring, and looting which Would happen. Which goes Far past just thieves.

IT would also encourage true exploiting such as looting scripts and so on( like we need more cheaters ) la...

Far to many reasons that this is a bad idea.
 

phantus

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Fel should never had had instanced corpses.(nor Siege but that should be a given) With the option to envoke then in party.

Tram is fine as it is. Noone is naive enough to think it woudn't be abused if turned back on. Including the op I'm sure.
 
C

Connor_Graham

Guest
with no armor or resists they would be dropped fast in todays world. You're still thinking of the old thief without this new stuff.
No, I'm thinking of thieves and the fact that they don't need anything beyond opportunity to steal. No items(s) is/are required, and as I said, they're the only skillset that has that so they can literally walk around naked. Thus, once again as I've already said, thieves are no risk, all reward.
 
K

Kith Kanan

Guest
His pov and mine , is that thiefs are the only class that has EVERYTHING to win and NOTHING to loose if no insurance in Fel was implemented , nakid gate and bank hugging griefers.. and sure they would be easy to kill , but hell they dont losse anything by being killed , so they only have to be succesfulll every now and then..... no thx keep it to siege , and if ever opend some pre Tram server , no pre AOS , but pre tram , dont give the thiefs a facet to hide on :)
 
S

ShadowJack

Guest
Yes outdated like the "can we have retro" arguments.

Outdated like the few vets that still cant push thru and adapt to a game that has passed them by.

Anti-social behavior is as wanted in game as a STD.

The last thing I want ever to see again is the mass abuse of body blocking, luring, and looting which Would happen. Which goes Far past just thieves.

IT would also encourage true exploiting such as looting scripts and so on( like we need more cheaters ) la...

Far to many reasons that this is a bad idea.


What does any of this have to do with no insurance in fel?


The scripters can script freely there because they find spots where no one will find them and get double resources for it, they do it in tram, because even if someone did find them, most likely they wont lure to cause them to die, and a gm wont answer the call 80% of the time


retro isn't always bad, it worked for some people, taking insurance out of fel only helps that


and anti social behavior is just as big of a problem with blues on trammel as it is anywhere else in the game

that is the player, not the insurance or the class



the outdated arguments I'm talking about is the thief being able to run around with nothing on them and still do well is probably not going to happen


no one knows what the thief would be like with necros and paladins and all this new blessed stuff
 

It Lives

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Shadow Jack, I used you as a stepping stone on the Original Topic to say that the bringing back of free looting is ultimately a bad idea.

It will lead to situations that goes far beyond recapturing the GLORY DAYS.

Situations that will hurt your cause to " bring back the Thief". You can take that for what its worth.
 
S

ShadowJack

Guest
yeah


I don't see looting being allowed in trammel, I don't think it belongs unless it's someone who's taking your stuff from your body to give it back.



Just to be straightforward about it. Those days of looting are gone because they get exploited and overused too much
 
D

D'Amavir

Guest
No, I'm thinking of thieves and the fact that they don't need anything beyond opportunity to steal. No items(s) is/are required, and as I said, they're the only skillset that has that so they can literally walk around naked. Thus, once again as I've already said, thieves are no risk, all reward.
Yes, because in this day and age of UO everyone else risk everything. You risk that 200m gold suit of armor you wear. Wait, you don't risk that at all because its insured for 600gold each piece. But, you do risk that 100m weapon that you carry. Wait, you don't risk that at all because its insured for 600gold. But, definitely, you risk losing your character when it dies. Hmmm, you know its coming, wait, you don't risk that because you can just hop to a healer and get rezzed without losing anything at all.

Yeah, thieves suck because they get such great rewards (10 bandages on a random steal, a potion on a targetted steal, whooohooo) with no risk while us poor non thief characters risk everything for no reward whatsoever. Darn those dirty thieves. Darn them all to atch eee double hockey sticks.
 
S

Stucky

Guest
I miss looting. Yeah, it was a pain sometimes but then replacing a suit of armor wasn't something that was unheard of or unexpected. For every looter there were 3 other people who would collect your things for you and give them back apon your arrival or leave them next to your body. You got to know people. If 'Dan' looted you one time then maybe you didnt want to hunt in the same dungeon with 'Dan' again (unless you hid and waited for him to die then looted things back).

It was invalueable in guild/guild wars and when I was a newbie. If my friends couldnt loot my things when I started uo, I'd have had no way at all to get my things back.

I think with the addition of insurance protecting anything valuable, that it is time we brought back a fun yet sometimes devious aspect of UO.
 
K

Kith Kanan

Guest
D'amavir why would anyone want to risk loosing a 100m weapon to a nakid thief , and why the hell should we ????? Sure its uber fun and exciting for the thief , not so much for the victim I would recon....
 

TheScoundrelRico

Stratics Legend
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Pssst, a looter is not a thief, always. Most looters actually don't even have (had) stealing in their template...la
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
If that was griefing. So then could one claim that zerg guilds taking over shard champ spawns is as well. HOT, huh?...la
One thing that bothers me with EVERY single arguement you make. You ALWAYS involve something completely irrelavent to try and counter someone. WTF does this guild HOT have to do with looting? I realize a thief is good at slieght of hand dude....but on the forums? cmon now!!!!

If you feel strongly about something arugue it effectively and not with nuh-uh's and what about what's. Please?
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Pssst, a looter is not a thief, always. Most looters actually don't even have (had) stealing in their template...la

You cant fault thier logic...let me explain why.

to them and to most who play:
thief = griefer
looter = griefer

so if thief = griefer and looter = griefer, then looter = thief.

a pig is still a pig seems to fit here.
 

Arcus

Grand Poobah
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
...yes, I know, I know, looters are mean, and looters take things off corpses that you would rather keep, but come on. Even in Trammel, only looting came in as a close second to thieving.

A player dies...their corpse is blue. *start the timer*
Let the 7 minute timer (or it used be that long) and let the corpse turn to bones. At this time, let the corpse be free to loot. It gives each player some time to retrieve their belongings, but at the same time, it allows other players to camp the corpse. 7 minutes in game time is plenty of time to get rezzed and back, but why not allow there be a little thing (other players) to get some more adventure into the game. If Trammel is off touch, at least make it so in Felucca (or all of Siege).

Come on folks, get behind this...I miss guilds like LuT, I miss players like Galad...you know you do too...la

Im behind this 100%. It was exciting to have to get back to your corpse in time. I yern for the time when people came to WBB begging for help to get their corpse back and helping them out, and making a friend in the process.

Dont get me wrong, it was fun looting too!
 

Dermott of LS

UOEC Modder
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
...

Just because you don't have the Stealing skill does not mean you are not a thief.

Most looters I would assume would be making use of other thief skills such as Hiding and Stealth as well as other non-point based player skills.

The only difference between the thief and the looter is the state of living of their target.

Two sub classes of the same main class.

However, I have to say I have at least a little more respect for thethif than I do the looter.
 

EnigmaMaitreya

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Pssst, a looter is not a thief, always. Most looters actually don't even have (had) stealing in their template...la
I am quite sure you have that right.

I would up the anti and say the over whelming number of corpses "Looted" were not done by thieves.

Thieves NOT defined by a set of skills and numbers, rather Thieves as defined by a "Play Style", "Mind Set" etc.

Yet, when the "Looters" behaved in a manner best described as Griefing and for "some" thieves, part of the entertainment value was the "Taunting", then by association of action, the Thieves become linked to the greater number of "Looters".

Some one NOT finding entertainment value in being "Looted" OR "Stolen From" is not going to invest any time in making a distinction. They will simply say "Greifing is Griefing".

Is it relevant that the Trammel population "MAY" have more griefers (that are not Feluccans in Trammel Clothing), not really as their form is within the Culture Limits as defined by Trammel. They will see it as NOT being the same and essentially put you on ignore.

One could characterize the interaction of Players like this.

If you are in Felucca and interact with People within the Culture Limits of Felucca then most things will be accepted (do NOT interpret as liked).

If you are in Trammel and interact with People within the Culture Limits of Trammel, then most things will be accepted (do NOT interpret as liked).

In short,

When in Felucca be a Feluccan.

When in Trammel be a Trammelian.

Anything else just plain and simple is Culture Wars (AKA Play Style vs Play Style).
 
D

D'Amavir

Guest
D'amavir why would anyone want to risk loosing a 100m weapon to a nakid thief , and why the hell should we ????? Sure its uber fun and exciting for the thief , not so much for the victim I would recon....
So, you don't think that there should be any risk whatsoever in this game? If not, that's fine. Its your right to feel that risk isn't needed. But not everyone feels the same. As is their right.
 
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D'Amavir

Guest
You cant fault thier logic...let me explain why.

to them and to most who play:
thief = griefer
looter = griefer

so if thief = griefer and looter = griefer, then looter = thief.

a pig is still a pig seems to fit here.
Indeed, which is why anyone CAN fault their logic. In fact, its like this

thief=player choosing to play a thief in an mmorpg game
looter=player choosing to loot in an mmorpg game

griefer= someone that goes around harassing and scamming people in order to cause them grief.

Not all thieves are griefers just like not all Trammel players are whiney, logic impaired, one sided individuals. Sure, you can find thieves that ARE griefers. And I can find Trammel players that fit that category as well.
 

TheScoundrelRico

Stratics Legend
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You cant fault thier logic...let me explain why.

to them and to most who play:
thief = griefer
looter = griefer

so if thief = griefer and looter = griefer, then looter = thief.

a pig is still a pig seems to fit here.
The problem is, they must not have ever taken a logic class. The premise that a thief is a griefer is false and thus nullified your whole argument...la
 
D

D'Amavir

Guest
...

Let me know when death robe suicide thieves/looters gain any such risks.
Do looters have all of their items magically transported to the bank as soon as they loot them? I wasn't aware of that change but I like it. Otherwise, looters have many risks. Things like being caught by someone while they looted and killed. They are naked and weapons less after all. Easy kill. They also risk getting killed by the mobs that provided the dead body to begin with. Sounds like risk to me.
 

Dermott of LS

UOEC Modder
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
...

Let's see... looted bag of sending... not theirs, uses other people charges to send better items to the bank and safety never to be regained by their owners.

A thief template revolving around stealth to mitigate the possibility of death by mobs or other players, and if needs be a partied "innocent" who is better equipped defensively to handle the area's PvM and to loot the looter and enjoy the spoils.

The thief/looter is made to die, thus death is not the inherent risk, but simply part of the process.
 

EnigmaMaitreya

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
......
The thief/looter is made to die, thus death is not the inherent risk, but simply part of the process.
AKA the Bad Old Days, Naked Bank Thief with a Backup. The Thief Steals, if he is successful and gets guard whacked the backup loots and puts it in the bank. If the Thief is NOT guard whacked the thief puts it in the Bank.

This method is what really sank the Thief Boat. Is it The Scoundrel's and Jack's fault? Probably not, are they possibly trying to bring a new face and new life to Thieves, probably so. Meaning I will give them the benefit of doubt.

Should they be Killed because they would like to have a "Viable" thief in UO? *Shrug* It depends on the definition of "Viable". If it is not an acceptable definition then it wont float again. If it is acceptable then it will float.

Either way, I see it as a *Shrug* don't kill em for trying and don't just dismiss em because the words "Thief", "Steal" are used.
 
D

D'Amavir

Guest
...

Let's see... looted bag of sending... not theirs, uses other people charges to send better items to the bank and safety never to be regained by their owners.

A thief template revolving around stealth to mitigate the possibility of death by mobs or other players, and if needs be a partied "innocent" who is better equipped defensively to handle the area's PvM and to loot the looter and enjoy the spoils.

The thief/looter is made to die, thus death is not the inherent risk, but simply part of the process.
But if the looter dies, doesn't he then become the lootie? Unless there is a way for a looter to be able to survive 100% of the time with their looted gains intact, I can't see how anyone can say they don't have risks.
 

Galad

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Pssst, a looter is not a thief, always. Most looters actually don't even have (had) stealing in their template...la
Yep.

I did quite a bit of looting back in the early years and never had stealing on my template. There was always too much looting to be done to have time to work the skill.
 
F

Fayled Dhreams

Guest
...yes, I know, I know, looters are mean, and looters take things off corpses that you would rather keep, but come on. Even in Trammel, only looting came in as a close second to thieving.

A player dies...their corpse is blue. *start the timer*
Let the 7 minute timer (or it used be that long) and let the corpse turn to bones. At this time, let the corpse be free to loot. It gives each player some time to retrieve their belongings, but at the same time, it allows other players to camp the corpse. 7 minutes in game time is plenty of time to get rezzed and back, but why not allow there be a little thing (other players) to get some more adventure into the game. If Trammel is off touch, at least make it so in Felucca (or all of Siege).

Come on folks, get behind this...I miss guilds like LuT, I miss players like Galad...you know you do too...la
/signed
 
K

Kyrie_Elaison

Guest
I vote "yes" regardless of facet...

... but given the omnipresent insurance on production shards, what would this achieve?


If a looter wants to hang around my corpse for a few minutes just to stock-up on bandies and a few potions, they're welcome to, but (certainly in my case), they're not going to loot anything that couldn't be obtained by other means in less than 7 minutes.


Guild looting and party looting should always be permitted, as long as the player has to make an active choice to enable them.
Here's the problem. Saying that anyone that wants to loot takes the same risk is a lie. I have a GM+ Thief (notice what the OP is) that can go into a heavy spawn area undetected. Once I get to your bones, I can loot your body and hide faster than I can be targeted by the beasties.

As I said before, I have no problem with bringing back the old decay system, but people should know the facts about what it was like before they say sure let's do that.

And if you don't think I can loot and hide fast enough, I've done it many times in the rat hole. It's all a matter of timing, skills, and being prepared.
 

TheScoundrelRico

Stratics Legend
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Pssst, a looter is not a thief, always. Most looters actually don't even have (had) stealing in their template...la
Yep.

I did quite a bit of looting back in the early years and never had stealing on my template. There was always too much looting to be done to have time to work the skill.
Who are you? Not sure I've seen your name before ^.-...la
 
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Remy_of_GOR

Guest
You must be talking about Siege because I can't remember the last time I saw someone with a blessed weapon. Besides, that's not the point.


Again, you must be talking about Siege because I have NEVER seen a blessed instrument on production shards. What would be the point?
noobed items from long ago are still around and cannot be lost(i still have stacks of noobed regs). many people use item bless deeds. maybe you should look around.


The point was that theives don't need armor. They don't need weapons. They don't need instruments or bandages. They don't need a damn thing except the skill points. Thus, nothing to lose, everything to gain = No Risk.
ive used dexers with only spirit speak to heal. i played a stealth bard that didnt need anything but running legs.

your no risk is laughable. every time i die i either lose over 6k and regs, or a full set of gm armor and regs. id like to know how i dont have risk, or why you think you have risk.
 

TheScoundrelRico

Stratics Legend
Alumni
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Stratics Legend
I have a GM+ Thief (notice what the OP is) that can go into a heavy spawn area undetected.
LOL, all someone needs is a way to hide I've known quite a few looters who didn't even have hiding in their template. Ivis items, teleport items, or magery will do just fine...la
 

Nexus

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UNLEASHED
noobed items from long ago are still around and cannot be lost(i still have stacks of noobed regs). many people use item bless deeds. maybe you should look around.
Don't forget the half a dozen or so Blessed weapons from New Haven, Including popular style weapons like the Silver Serpent Blade which is the Kryss gotten from the Ninjitsu skill quest. It's Blessed and can do an Infectious Strike.
 

Velvathos

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I think the devs should be more realistic here.. A corpse shouldn't decay at all in my opinion.. Ressurecting should work like this, you die, end up at shrine, walk back to your "body" to get ressurected on the spot with all your items.. There should be no corpse decaying, it is tedious and fustrating at times, especially when there is NOONE IN THE DUNGEON BUT YOU, which happens a lot.. After an X amount of time, bring in looting rights.. As the game stands right now though, it is gonna have to be a no, ressurecting is frustrating enough as it is with the lack of players.
 
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