Bring back looting...

[TheScoundrelRico]

...yes, I know, I know, looters are mean, and looters take things off corpses that you would rather keep, but come on. Even in Trammel, only looting came in as a close second to thieving.

A player dies...their corpse is blue. *start the timer*
Let the 7 minute timer (or it used be that long) and let the corpse turn to bones. At this time, let the corpse be free to loot. It gives each player some time to retrieve their belongings, but at the same time, it allows other players to camp the corpse. 7 minutes in game time is plenty of time to get rezzed and back, but why not allow there be a little thing (other players) to get some more adventure into the game. If Trammel is off touch, at least make it so in Felucca (or all of Siege).

Come on folks, get behind this...I miss guilds like LuT, I miss players like Galad...you know you do too...la

 

[Kaleb]

yes

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

In Fel... fine.

In Tram... no deal.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Oh come on. Looting in Trammel was fun stuff. Just head to the high traffic PvM areas, and you could load up for weeks, lol. Like I said, there is plenty of time to get back to your corpse even before it goes to bones...la

 

[ShadowJack]

looting is great fun


In trammel wouldn't you rather loot someone than watch it just disappear on a body that the owner never came back to claim


Wait til they turn to bones to allow almost 10 minutes (and the way the game is, they should be back in 2) for the char to come back



if they don't want it, then it must not be important to them anyhow, and luring is illegal now, so it wouldn't be the same grief looting everyone was used to




I think it's time to gear this game away from the items a WHOLE lot


Everything you do in this game revolves around gear and house deco and all this other stuff that is nice to have, but shouldn't be needed to play.



For me (and I'm just saying for me) the game was better before I had to number crunch on every single little aspect of the items I was using

 

[GarthGrey]

Make up your mind Shadow, the first half of your post says Allow looting of items,it's fun, the 2nd half says the game is too Item oriented..

 

[ShadowJack]

the items aren't important


but sometimes you'll see a dead body no one wants and you could be like


hey some regs or bandies, I need those so I don't have to go back to the house/town



it's almost always junk



but it's still fun to look

 

[Connor_Graham]

...

In Fel... fine.

In Tram... no deal.

Seconded.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Looting in Fel, fine.

Looting in Trammel/based, no.

Although arguments can be made for toggles for party/guild purposes, but outside of that, looting in Trammel was a mistake that was corrected LONG ago.

And, no, I don't miss the old stories about people abusing a ruleset to take from others with ZERO RISK or repercussion whatsoever.

I'm all for removing things like instanced corpses and other Trammel-based changes from Fel, but I'm not for allowing Fel-based changes to happen to Tram.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

And, no, I don't miss the old stories about people abusing a ruleset to take from others with ZERO RISK or repercussion whatsoever.

They have the same risk as the people who are trying to get back to their corpses/bones...la

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Assuming what they put themselves in the position to be killed in the first place.

Sorry... not buying that one.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

...

Assuming what they put themselves in the position to be killed in the first place.

Sorry... not buying that one.

You mean, like being in an area where monsters could kill them?...la

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Assuming the so-called looter were dumb enough to waltz into a huge pack of Paragons to try and get at a corpse, then maybe. Between mount speed and stealth, unless you're in very limited and specific circumstances, the chances of dying while NOT actively engaged in PvM are too remote to mention.

The vulture will put itself in the position to pick the bones of the deceased in the least dangerous way possible. Same holds true for looters. The risk level is non-existant and the chance of loss a non-issue if they aren't gearing up to fight in the first place.

Sorry, again... not buying it.

 

[Ailish]

I agree with Dermott. It never should have been removed from Fel (you should not flag crim after the corpse is bones), but it also never belonged in Tram.

I do wish they would fix the party-loot thing tho. My husband and I used to use that all the time when we died in a bad spot.

I understand why it was removed (from Tram). It was just another way to grief, and preventing griefing was the whole point of making Tram. You are pushing to bring Fel to Tram for your personal playstyle ... you would be far better off pushing to bring Fel back to Fel for your playstyle - that is where thieves belong.

 

[ShadowJack]

I agree with Dermott. It never should have been removed from Fel (you should not flag crim after the corpse is bones), but it also never belonged in Tram.

I do wish they would fix the party-loot thing tho. My husband and I used to use that all the time when we died in a bad spot.

I understand why it was removed (from Tram). It was just another way to grief, and preventing griefing was the whole point of making Tram. You are pushing to bring Fel to Tram for your personal playstyle ... you would be far better off pushing to bring Fel back to Fel for your playstyle - that is where thieves belong.

Exactly!!!!!!

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

It was just another way to grief...

No it wasn't...la

 

[BbqLou]

Won't happen in tram, would be too many griefers.

Scenario...

**Gating to nice vendor shop**

Player walks in gate, happens to be a death gate, Player gets stuck.. can't get back to his corpse it times loses all his items he had. Player who gated him loots it all and does it again to another person..

Yeah this would not cause any problems. OH WAIT didn't it use to be this way? and it really sucked?

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Player walks in gate, happens to be a death gate...

Please show me where I said this was what I was hoping for? Sure it happend, and guess what, it has been deemed illegal. So what if it happens today? A report? A mark on account, a suspension, a ban. Being able to loot the bones of a player I happen to run across is what I'm asking for...nothing else (in this post)...la

 

[BbqLou]

No it wasn't...la

Yes it was, la

 

[ShadowJack]

Won't happen in tram, would be too many griefers.

Scenario...

**Gating to nice vendor shop**

Player walks in gate, happens to be a death gate, Player gets stuck.. can't get back to his corpse it times loses all his items he had. Player who gated him loots it all and does it again to another person..

Yeah this would not cause any problems. OH WAIT didn't it use to be this way? and it really sucked?

everything like that is preventable

and I think it's against the rules to lie to get someone into a death gate



common sense and precaution would be the way to foil a thief over any other method of magic and steel





and I always liked gating people to stuck spots better anyhow


that is dead because of the help stuck option




all outdated arguments

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

No it wasn't...la

Yes it was, la

If that was griefing. So then could one claim that zerg guilds taking over shard champ spawns is as well. HOT, huh?...la

 

[BbqLou]

Please show me where I said this was what I was hoping for? Sure it happend, and guess what, it has been deemed illegal. So what if it happens today? A report? A mark on account, a suspension, a ban. Being able to loot the bones of a player I happen to run across is what I'm asking for...nothing else (in this post)...la

Please show me where I said this is what you were hoping for...

You may not want this to happen, but it would, just like it use to. I am all for it for FEl, but in tram their would just be too many problems.

 

[BbqLou]

If that was griefing. So then could one claim that zerg guilds taking over shard champ spawns is as well. HOT, huh?...la

Theirs a difference between Fel, and Tram... Perhaps you've been on siege for too long.


Champs are in Fel.... where death is a risk,


Sitting at brit bank walking in a gate that's a death gate and losing all of your stuff to some guy who looted it in TRAM is griefing.

Hunting a monster and dying then not being able to get back to your body back in time to have some jackass loot your stuff in TRAM would cause too many problems and you know it.


NOW IN FEL I AM ALL FOR THIS!

 

[BbqLou]

all outdated arguments

No, not when this is what would happen.

 

[Kith Kanan]

...yes, I know, I know, looters are mean, and looters take things off corpses that you would rather keep, but come on. Even in Trammel, only looting came in as a close second to thieving.

A player dies...their corpse is blue. *start the timer*
Let the 7 minute timer (or it used be that long) and let the corpse turn to bones. At this time, let the corpse be free to loot. It gives each player some time to retrieve their belongings, but at the same time, it allows other players to camp the corpse. 7 minutes in game time is plenty of time to get rezzed and back, but why not allow there be a little thing (other players) to get some more adventure into the game. If Trammel is off touch, at least make it so in Felucca (or all of Siege).

Come on folks, get behind this...I miss guilds like LuT, I miss players like Galad...you know you do too...la

Yeah its all fun and La until you loss connection and losse a 200m suit ...
If the items auto loots on broken connection then ok by me , ofc then some players will yank the socket out of the wall if they die....

This goes double for us KR users where the game crashes randomly and for no apparent reason atleast a few times a day

what you don on siege I'm not gonna comment on as I dont play there any longer ..

 

[Ailish]

Let me give you a better example than BBQ gave. Luring is illegal in Tram. This is a fact. However ... it is also a fact that it takes a GM 3+ hours, in most cases, to respond to a page. It is also against policy for a GM to return lost items to a player.

So, player A is, lets say in the Twisted Weald. Player B doesnt like Player A for whatever reason and notes that Player A doesnt use insurance (alot of Trammies dont). Player B goes down into the swamp and lures a ton of spiders and changlings (paragon type creatures) to Player A's location and runs out the teleporter. Player A dies. Player B goes back in and lures the stuff to the teleporter, runs out again, embraces honor, runs back in to wait. Player A walks to the gate, rez's heads back, while paging on Player B for luring. Player A gets insta-killed getting going thru the teleporter. Walks back to gate to rez. Rinse repeat.

Meantime - Player A's corpse goes to bones, Player B dry loots, honors self again to get out, goes and either trashs or tucks away Player A's stuff. Two hours later, a GM shows up, tells Player A "Sorry, we cannot replace lost items", talks to Player B who says "I didn't lure, I was running for my own life. Sorry that Player A was caught up in that! His Items? No, I never saw them." GM says thank you for your time and leaves.

Get it now?

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Luring is illegal in Tram.

The rest of the post is moot, I'm not suggesting changing this rule...la

 

[ShadowJack]

and with insurance it's just be backpack scraps laying there



most good players will use a bag of sending or insure any good drops



but then again, if fel turns back into fel, I say let the people who Love trammel keep it however they want


I just hope you'd come visit us sometimes

 

[Nestorius]

I agree. There should be a window of time before a player corpse disappears that its contents are available to everyone.

 

[Kith Kanan]

Well as long as insurence is still in place im ok with looting , even in trammel ..

 

[Flutter]

/signs

 

[Nexus]

Well as long as insurence is still in place im ok with looting , even in trammel ..

He just hit the sore spot, as long as insurance stay everything else as far as looting is pointless. Me personally I'm going to continue down the "Kill Insurance in Fel" road and put up the good fight, besides seeing all the people cry at the thought of not being able to PvP in Pixel crack is more fun....

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

I am in favor because I know I can get my body in 7 minutes and if I can't I wouldn't bother trying so someone else might as well grab the loot so it doesn't go to waste.

Maybe I am just lazy but if I can't get my body easily enough I just rack it up as a loss and move on.

I think this could also be beneficial if you are unable to retrieve the corpse but your friend is still in the area they can grab your stuff for you. This should be a bonus in tram especially.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I think this could also be beneficial if you are unable to retrieve the corpse but your friend is still in the area they can grab your stuff for you. This should be a bonus in tram especially.

Party/guild looting should serve this purpose.

Outside of that, the probability of abuse of the system is too high (consider the player style asking for it back).

 

[Ailish]

Luring is illegal in Tram.

The rest of the post is moot, I'm not suggesting changing this rule...la

Wrong. It is valid. Because if corpse looting - as useful as it was! (and i used it all the time back then) was added back to TRAM (which you DID suggest) this is exactly the kind of situation that would happen. In fact, it was exactly the reason it was removed. Luring was illegal then, but it still happened all the time, and it still happens now, all the time. The GM's are useless against it.

 

[Ailish]

Here's to hoping they just simply remove stealing from other players completely. That would be a step in the right direction IMO.

I strongly disagree with you. Removing stealing completely FROM TRAM would be fine, but it is and should be a valid playstyle IN FEL. There should be a system by which a thief - at the least - can "steal" an item and get the insurance gold for it. Getting a cursed copy might be viable as well ... but not sure that would not lead to system abuse. Thieves should also be perma-gray to anyone they have ever stolen from (I believe this used to be true?)

 

[D'Amavir]

Wrong. It is valid. Because if corpse looting - as useful as it was! (and i used it all the time back then) was added back to TRAM (which you DID suggest) this is exactly the kind of situation that would happen. In fact, it was exactly the reason it was removed. Luring was illegal then, but it still happened all the time, and it still happens now, all the time. The GM's are useless against it.

Sounds more like a GM problem to me. I agree, GM's have horrible response time to things like harassment or griefing. But, type a link for a guide site and they are there in seconds. Priorities and all.

As for the whole looting vs luring things, insurance has made the threat of death in Trammel pretty much dead to begin with. At worst, you are going to have some potions looted and some gold. No weapons/armor since those are all blessed or insured (and I don't believe for a second that a lot of Trammel players don't use insurance on their 200m suits and weapons as someone said). No regs because of the abundance of LRC suits in Trammel.

Personally, allowing looting in Trammel would be pretty much pointless. You wouldn't get anything worth having 99% of the time and we would have to put up with even more "I lost my *insert name of overpowered item here* because someone looted me while I was soloing the most powerful monster in the game" posts here. So, considering that last, I would vote against it.

The whole looting thing (and the comments made by those that oppose it) just rehighlights the things that are wrong with this game today. Too many people are too attached to their ungodly items and actually get sick to their stomach (paraphrased from an actual quote) if they lose anything. Back in the old days, losing that SA Silver Kryss of Vanquishing sucked. For about 10 minutes. Then you got over it and grabbed your Exceptional Kryss from the bank and went about your business. But, today, so many people are addicted to their 'items' and those items are so much more impacting that it crushes them emotionally. Sad that anyone would get that damaged just from some pixel crack but its true.

 

[D'Amavir]

I strongly disagree with you. Removing stealing completely FROM TRAM would be fine, but it is and should be a valid playstyle IN FEL. There should be a system by which a thief - at the least - can "steal" an item and get the insurance gold for it. Getting a cursed copy might be viable as well ... but not sure that would not lead to system abuse. Thieves should also be perma-gray to anyone they have ever stolen from (I believe this used to be true?)

Of course that would lead to griefing. People would just steal the same items off of their friends over and over so they can have multiple copies made. But I do get your point. I have suggested several times that thieves and pvp'ers should be rewarded for their efforts via the insurance system (since EA seems determined to allow that system to remain in place in Fel). Increasing the insurance cost for insurers and increasing the insurance reward for pvp'ers and adding that reward for thieves in some way would be a good start. As long as the system was set up to avoid the scamming aspect that plagued the old (and wonderfully imagined but poorly implemented) bounty system.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I say we bring back more Thief nerfs.

It sure does look like we're about due for some by the posts we've been seeing today.

 

[Ailish]

Sounds more like a GM problem to me. I agree, GM's have horrible response time to things like harassment or griefing. But, type a link for a guide site and they are there in seconds. Priorities and all.

Agreed, but sadly GM service is not really getting better here ... also, the flip side is the use of GM's TO grief. If they responded quickly and decisively, it would be used as a way to grief people who did not actually commit the sins they were accused of. And the reasons for not replacing items are valid - if they did, it would be exploited to kingdom come.

(and I don't believe for a second that a lot of Trammel players don't use insurance on their 200m suits and weapons as someone said).

You might be amazed. Off the top of my head, I know AT LEAST 10 players who don't use insurance, or only use it when they are in Fel. There are even a few new players every now and then ... and they don't use it because either they don't understand it or can't afford it. Good example of this: a few weeks ago a newbie showed up on Napa. I gave him a couple of nicer pieces of armor - not godly, but 50+ resists per piece on 3 pieces - and told him "insure those". In fact, I believe I even insured them before giving them to him. The next day they were gone. He had lost them when he was unable to get back to his corpse in time. I gave him 1 mil in gold and a couple more decent things ... next day, they were gone again. At that point, I gave up lol

 

[T_Amon_from_work]

Sorry Rico ... looking over what's here already I think Dermott is right. For Fel I think corpse looting as you outline is fair, but not the Tram ruleset.

 

[Galad]

Sounds like Connor has been looted a few times too many.

 

[ShadowJack]

^.^

 

[Kith Kanan]

He just hit the sore spot, as long as insurance stay everything else as far as looting is pointless. Me personally I'm going to continue down the "Kill Insurance in Fel" road and put up the good fight, besides seeing all the people cry at the thought of not being able to PvP in Pixel crack is more fun....

And I'll keep posting that you should bugger of to siege

 

[Kyrie_Elaison]

No it wasn't...la

I have an idea, lets drag all these creatures over to where this guy is hunting so he gets killed. Now that he's dead we'll wait for the timer then drag the creatures away and loot the corpse.

Taken away because people used it as a grief tactic.....................la


Not saying I don't want it back, but those are the facts.................la

 

[Fresley]

/sign

Yes. Please.

Pretty please?

 

[Fluffi]

I vote "yes" regardless of facet...

... but given the omnipresent insurance on production shards, what would this achieve?


If a looter wants to hang around my corpse for a few minutes just to stock-up on bandies and a few potions, they're welcome to, but (certainly in my case), they're not going to loot anything that couldn't be obtained by other means in less than 7 minutes.


Guild looting and party looting should always be permitted, as long as the player has to make an active choice to enable them.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Sounds like Connor has been looted a few times too many.

Nope.

Looting was still allowed when I started playing though, and it sucked as a new player to lose everything because I couldn't get back to my body in time. Established players don't have as much to lose as new players do when it comes to this. An established player can just go out and buy or put together a new suit. A new player doesn't have these resources available to them, and have to start from scratch after they've lost everything.

 

[Tovladian Soltyr]

They have the same risk as the people who are trying to get back to their corpses/bones...la

with the use of invis pots and smoke bombs pretty much 100% of the risk is gone for the stealthers.

 

[Coppelia]

You can already loot blue corpses in Trammel.
http://vboards.stratics.com/showpost.php?p=864962&postcount=16