Thievery & a short history lesson

[ShadowJack]

The thief has been a part of UO since the start.



If you don't like it then stay in trammel. Your type of gameplay is suited for there.

Fel is a playground for trammel players.


Bring fel back to the fel players.


Watch the vet accounts start reopening, I've got 2 from 97 just waiting on me.


A lot of people use the ME MY I defense, but OUR way of playing was killed, this is a solution that allows both sides to continue to play on the same shards and no interaction between the two would ever be needed unless desired.

Hell I would make faction wars for towns really. Let those guys fight and decide who is allowed in towns they control. If they vote yes, then the town could be open to theives and murderers. We'll always have bucs den. We don't need all of trammel and half of fel to be happy like you do.



There is room in the game for both styles of play. Period. That was what splitting the player base was about. Our half was nerfed by aos and quit. Now you guys run both


It's not fair to our style of playing, and those of you that don't know it never even give it a chance because it's intimidating and takes skill and effort to play with it in the game.


If you took the gate and guardzone away from yew, would everyone quit going there? Probably... you guys are accustomed to save zones from pvp even when you pvp. At least the thieves could break the gz boundry to break up the camping gz.


if murderers were problems thieves could take regs or weps or bandies so they couldn't mass gank players. We didn't discriminate, we stole.

 

[Nexus]

Thieves have no place, zero, none, in any game I play.

Then your playing the wrong game. Thieves have been here since the start, I hope they stay here till the end. Just because you don't like them, well they made an entire expansion for that launched in 2000. Either have something to supportive or negative with some actual reasoning other than "I don't like them" or go troll another thread please.

 

[Felinious-CWS]

QUOTE=Maplestone;860402]How can you have the audacity to say "100%" when there are counter-examples in this thread. Thieves have no place, zero, none, in any game I play. I don't care what they do beyond the red moongate, but there is nothing about sharing a world with them that....

Since you don't play beyond the red moongate, then why worry about it. Wait a minute..Didn't you get your right to post here stolen by a Legendary Thief??


And yes 100% of the time, when we had fun chasing the theif, we were having fun doing it, so it has to be 100%

 

[Chad Sexington]

Thievery: A Short History Lesson

by Chad Sexington

Once upon a time, in a time and place that seems so long ago, there was turmoil. There was no Trammel, there was no Felucca, there was only Britainnia. In the beginning you could be freely attacked without the luxury of popping back into the non-consentual lands after a steal. In the beginning there was the safety of an extra set of eyeballs and the thief standing next to you, watching your back.

In the beginning, people complained about the thieves and their cowardly ways because they didn't understand the risk. They only spotted the thief for a few brief seconds and then he was gone... or dead. They did not understand that the thief only had the upper hand leading up to, during, and immediately after the theft. They did not understand that the thief only enjoyed this moment of glory for moment... and then it was gone.

They did not understand that they were the hunters and the thieves were the hunted. They let the thieves pull the wool over their eyes, looked straight into the smoke and mirrors, and didn't understand that they had the upper hand every moment of every day when the thief was not actively engaged in a theft.

In the beginning, when The Hunt, The Theft, and The Chase were over, the hiding began. Back to the shadows, they were banished... until the hunt began again.

In the beginning, things were good.

Those days are long gone.

...

Today's UO has animal form, shadow jump, smoke bombs, ethereal steeds and chargers of the fallen for all! In today's UO, a thief can engage in The Hunt, The Theft, and The Chase, and stray away from the shadows and pop back into Trammel!

...

"Off with his head!" they'd say.

"Off with his head!" they received.

 

[Maplestone]

Since you don't play beyond the red moongate, then why worry about it.

I worry because there have been a swarm of posts in the last few days hinting, suggesting, whining for or demanding PvP thieving in Tram.

(but you are right about me not needing to worry about Fel - I have no problem with thief-players lobbying for their playstyle there and wish them well ... I've been treating all the recent thief posts as if they were part of the same thread since they seem to come in coordinated waves, the sharpness of my replies is really aimed at things said in other posts)

( edit: see the opening line of http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=100911 as an example of a post that puts me on a war footing on the boards )

 

[Viper09]

I worry because there have been a swarm of posts in the last few days hinting, suggesting, whining for or demanding PvP thieving in Tram.

NO ONE said ANYTHING about stealing from players in TRAM. It's all about FEL NOT TRAM
Yeah, one guy posted that idea, but if you read the damn thread you'd see how well that went, and thats the ONLY thread
that proposed the idea
And I think we all know stealing in tram will NEVER happen, regardless.

 

[Specialshoes]

You have a thief and you have a victim. There was never any in-between or middle ground.

Uhhh noooo there were plenty of Detective types that made life difficult for thieves. Specially the even somewhat known ones that were perma grey and almost freely attackable. Granted the part about things being blessed for thieves after it was stolen was bs. But yes I do seem to remember playing both sides.

Oh yeah there is also that facet choice thing if you didnt want to take the risk of personal accountablity. Cause thats what it came down to. If you acted like a victim you were my victim. If you took the time to learn how to thief proof yourself even a little bit I usually left those ones alone.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

PLEASE BRING BACK THE ****ING THIEF!!!!!
ive never played one once.

 

[Maplestone]

NO ONE said ANYTHING about stealing from players in TRAM.

I went back over everything written in stratics over the last couple of weeks on the subject and and have come to conclusion that I read too much into a few anti-Tram posts. I concede that I've taken a few posts and used too wide a brush in painting the whole thieving community as if it was a single mind.

*checks pockets for my right to post in this thread* ... *finds it's missing*

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Who actually wants thieves restored to their former power? Griefers or actual players?

When the thief could use a simple 2 key macro to Disarm & steal at will with basically 0 consequences.
The best ones had no need to wear any gear so obviously no worries about losing anything.
Not once have I ever heard a valid argument that explained to me what possible risk the thief took because there was absolutely none. Death without losing any gold or gear? Lol, 0 risk.

Correct me if I am wrong but almost every time you see another post for the return of the thief they specifically mention this period of time when thieves were running rampant.

Kinda sad because every one of these thieves was nothing more then a pure griefer.

You have a thief and you have a victim. There was never any in-between or middle ground.

Thief - Victim

What made it much worse is that you then had a situation created where only 1 side could possibly have any fun or satisfaction(and dont get me wrong as it was hella fun being the thief back then lol)
But the problem,and reason IMO that the Devs rightfully nerfed it a bit, was that only ONE SIDE had any possibility for fun or satisfaction(the thief of course)
Who enjoyed being chased/snooped around by a thief? Absolutely nobody.

Need more proof that thieves mainly just stole to grief? How about the FACT that to this day they can steal hundreds of millions out of Doom & also steal extremely valuable Powerscrolls from Felucca spawns yet they choose not to. Why is that? They are thieves yet they dont want to steal valuable items? Hrmmm. Right now you can read threads where supposed oldstyle thieves are complaining about Doom & scrolls because they say its not the same as stealing from another player. Uhh, can you say Griefer more clearly?

Bottom line is that the oldstyle thief was by nature the actual definition of griefing.

If the Devs can come up with a way to give the thief the same amount of risk as the victim then I am all for the return of thievery. But until then good riddance.

Peace

Since you want a history lesson about Thieves and the risks versus rewards they encountered... how about you actually know what the history was?


Joining the thieves guild meant that you could no longer give a murder count.

That means, once you were discovered to be a thief, then you were killed non-stop, constantly and almost to the point where it would be considered griefing had you not have been.

You could not steal in town, there was 0 chance of stealing an item without going grey and having guards called on you if people were around. And a TINY percentage where you successfully stole without getting instantly guardwacked.

Perma-grey. You were open to attack, even in town... as long as someone could tell or knew you were perma-grey.

Large objects or "magically locked" boxes were off limits. Thief proofing your character was sooooo ridiculously easy.

You had to wear armor to be successful out in the field. The only successfull disarm thieves that I've ever seen were the ones that were stocked up... I can't believe you actually thought the best ones didn't wear armor... get real.

Your template was completely, cramped making your character always at a disadvantage should you have gotten into a fight... put in snoop, stealing, hiding and stealth... and what the hell else could you really do besides die or always run away?


Again, when there was stat-loss... if you were in the thieves guild you were FREELY attackable by anyone at any time outside of guardzone... and if that isn't RISK then I don't know what the hell is.... ESPECIALLY when there was no Trammel to hide in.

1) another old thief whining about perma gray and not being able to give counts. Thats funny. Like not being able to give counts is a risk to a player that never cared about dying.
What about the scummiest, griefing old thief that would make identical characters just to get attacked and have players flagged/ganked/turned red? That wasnt giving counts? Thieves gave as many or more counts that any other template in the game.
And yes, I knew the ways to tell perma gray from not perma gray but most other players did not so they were toast.

2) Not stealing in town was of 0 consequence to a thief so whats your point? The only thieves that tried to steal in town were total fools.

3) Thief proofing your character with items such as books and cloaks was a royal pain in the arse and not 100% secure. So please stop being silly by using the word 'proof'

4) As has been stated like 5x already in this thread, we all know that thieves COULD wear armor. The bottom line though is that they absolutely did not have to wear anything to be brutally effective.

5) Not being able to steal large objects was a great burden to the thief? What a joke. The thief was able to steal ANY weapon in the game(except 'blessed' ones like my spear lol) What large objects did he need to steal from other players? Please.

6) Awww the thiefs template was all cramped? Who didnt have cramped templates at any point in Uo? The thief had more then enough room for totally effective stealing skills/hiding & a bit of defense or magery.

7) Thank you for perfectly illustrating my entire point though with your last statement

"and what the hell else could you really do besides die or always run away?"

Running away and dying were exactly what each Disarm thief did 24/7 every day and at the end of the day the Disarm thief was banking alot of extremely valuable weapons.

Its only been pointed out like 5x in this thread how every thief would happily have the screen littered with his corpses yet still be standing around snooping and bragging about the 3 Vanqs he just stole.
I find it hard to believe that even you Rain can have missed the whole fact of the matter that dying was no hindrance at all to the Disarm thief.

Maybe next time that you want to talk history with me Black Rain you should have some first hand knowledge of that history & not just incorrect stories that you may have heard from your big brother who was actually playing at the time.

 

[Traveller]

4) Using the 'stealing' skill makes you a thief period. So yes, Doom and Dojo do of course apply

*points and laugh*

I could have followed and approved your arguments, up to this point, where you show your bias so strongly that I didn't bother to consider your points anymore. I suppose that if you needed taming to pick up the artifact that would mean that artifact hunters without a single pet are tamers....

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

4) Using the 'stealing' skill makes you a thief period. So yes, Doom and Dojo do of course apply

*points and laugh*

I could have followed and approved your arguments, up to this point, where you show your bias so strongly that I didn't bother to consider your points anymore. I suppose that if you needed taming to pick up the artifact that would mean that artifact hunters without a single pet are tamers....

Nice try but next time maybe make some sense as it pertains to game mechanics. The skill was attached to the p/u for a reason. Is not the skill checked when you attempt the p/u? What specific skill is checked when artifact hunting?

Are you also then implying that my swordsman should have cooking or be a cook because he uses a Cleaver? Or just the opposite?

Using a specific skill(Stealing in this case)cannot be compared to an act such as hunting Artifacts son.

You can 'suppose' all you want to try and make bad points.

Unfortunately it appears that you are the biased one here. Nice job though trying to first say that you were with me. Its a vain attempt though.

But for the record, I was totally with you and thought you were making perfect logic until you typed your first character

 

[Traveller]

Nice try but next time maybe make some sense as it pertains to game mechanics. The skill was attached to the p/u for a reason. Is not the skill checked when you attempt the p/u? What specific skill is checked when artifact hunting?

I think you misunderstood. Maybe I should have used the term "Rare hunting", since you seem to have gathered that i was talking about hunting monsters. That's not the case. I was speaking about collecting rares (also termed Artifacts in their description, hence the confusion) from the floor. Again, suppose that instead of 100 stealing it was required 100 taming to collect stuff from the floor. That would make the collector a tamer? The playstyle of a thief has as much to do with rare collecting as the playstyle of a tamer. The only difference there seems only in your mind, so yes, you are horribly biased. The sad thing is that you can't even see that.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

5) Not being able to steal large objects was a great burden to the thief? What a joke. The thief was able to steal ANY weapon in the game(except 'blessed' ones like my spear lol) What large objects did he need to steal from other players? Please.

Gee, I suppose you didn't know that thieves couldn't steal, hallies, pitchforks or a number of different maces back then. Nice try though...la

 

[Emil Ispep]

Simply put,

If anyone has a problem with thieves, you dont need to find us.

Well find you.. >=)

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Nice try but next time maybe make some sense as it pertains to game mechanics. The skill was attached to the p/u for a reason. Is not the skill checked when you attempt the p/u? What specific skill is checked when artifact hunting?

I think you misunderstood. Maybe I should have used the term "Rare hunting", since you seem to have gathered that i was talking about hunting monsters. That's not the case. I was speaking about collecting rares (also termed Artifacts in their description, hence the confusion) from the floor. Again, suppose that instead of 100 stealing it was required 100 taming to collect stuff from the floor. That would make the collector a tamer? The playstyle of a thief has as much to do with rare collecting as the playstyle of a tamer. The only difference there seems only in your mind, so yes, you are horribly biased. The sad thing is that you can't even see that.

Hrmmm, plz correct if I am wrong but since day 1 of Uo hasnt it taken a thief with the Stealing skill to obtain certain items that spawned hourly/daily/monthly?

As I said I am not certain that is from the beginning but if so then I still do not see your point one bit since it was a function of the Thief right from the start and all along.

It was never a function of the griefer though so I assume that is why you now have an issue with it. You never wanted to play a thief to steal. You just wanted to play a griefer, sorry.

The disarm thief was horribly overpowered so rightly got the nerf-stick. Get over it.
The pvp thief is still quite a viable template. Any good thief can go to spawns alone and attempt to steal extremely valuable scrols from OTHER PLAYERS yet they choose not to because that actually requires skill and patience.

But my favorite whine is that these days with passive reveal it is too hard to play a thief as all the scary pvpers can find and chase too much. Kinda odd that when the griefing thives whine about the old days they claim that the 'chase' was the rush and what they played for. Yet today they are all against being chased around a spawn while still being able steal valuable scrolls. *shakes head*

 

[Draxous]

1) another old thief whining about perma gray and not being able to give counts. Thats funny. Like not being able to give counts is a risk to a player that never cared about dying.
What about the scummiest, griefing old thief that would make identical characters just to get attacked and have players flagged/ganked/turned red? That wasnt giving counts? Thieves gave as many or more counts that any other template in the game.
And yes, I knew the ways to tell perma gray from not perma gray but most other players did not so they were toast.

2) Not stealing in town was of 0 consequence to a thief so whats your point? The only thieves that tried to steal in town were total fools.

3) Thief proofing your character with items such as books and cloaks was a royal pain in the arse and not 100% secure. So please stop being silly by using the word 'proof'

4) As has been stated like 5x already in this thread, we all know that thieves COULD wear armor. The bottom line though is that they absolutely did not have to wear anything to be brutally effective.

5) Not being able to steal large objects was a great burden to the thief? What a joke. The thief was able to steal ANY weapon in the game(except 'blessed' ones like my spear lol) What large objects did he need to steal from other players? Please.

6) Awww the thiefs template was all cramped? Who didnt have cramped templates at any point in Uo? The thief had more then enough room for totally effective stealing skills/hiding & a bit of defense or magery.

7) Thank you for perfectly illustrating my entire point though with your last statement

"and what the hell else could you really do besides die or always run away?"

Running away and dying were exactly what each Disarm thief did 24/7 every day and at the end of the day the Disarm thief was banking alot of extremely valuable weapons.

Its only been pointed out like 5x in this thread how every thief would happily have the screen littered with his corpses yet still be standing around snooping and bragging about the 3 Vanqs he just stole.
I find it hard to believe that even you Rain can have missed the whole fact of the matter that dying was no hindrance at all to the Disarm thief.

Maybe next time that you want to talk history with me Black Rain you should have some first hand knowledge of that history & not just incorrect stories that you may have heard from your big brother who was actually playing at the time.

3 Things.

1. You trying to categorize me as "just another old thief" is hilarious, not only because you are a newb when it comes to how things worked in Ultima Online's past, but because I've been playing this game since day 1. (Actually, even before that) and actually grasp the concepts with-in it.

2. Your posts have no point to it, no facts and and pretty much 95% of it is total bull**** because it's obvious you just have pent up angst towards a playstyle you don't understand and shouldn't be commenting on.

3. You love my style!

 

[Traveller]

Woha, so many wrong assumptions there... you sure you are not biased? You certainly seem to have emo issues, there.

Hrmmm, plz correct if I am wrong but since day 1 of Uo hasnt it taken a thief with the Stealing skill

There you go again... Needing a single skill does not make you a thief, exactly like needing taming to pickup stuff from floor wouldn't make you a tamer. Is that so hard to understand?

As I said I am not certain that is from the beginning but if so then I still do not see your point one bit since it was a function of the Thief right from the start and all along.

Yes, I understand you can't see that. As I said I find it very sad you can't even realize how warped is this way of thinking.

It was never a function of the griefer though so I assume that is why you now have an issue with it. You never wanted to play a thief to steal. You just wanted to play a griefer, sorry.

You don't even realize how senseless this sentence is? Now, if for you every PK in the game is a griefer I can understand why you see that, otherwise by telling that whoever plays a thief is a griefer you are just trying to troll.

The disarm thief was horribly overpowered so rightly got the nerf-stick. Get over it.

Will you please make sense at least SOME time? I never played a disarm thief in my life, I am not even seriously advocating for their return. You sure sound like you have some kind of grudge against them, though...

The pvp thief is still quite a viable template. Any good thief can go to spawns alone and attempt to steal extremely valuable scrols from OTHER PLAYERS yet they choose not to because that actually requires skill and patience.

Again, you prove to be clueless. It USED to require skill and patience. I know, I played the scroll thief post-AoS, when you had to actually count steps to stealth and 20 tracking would track you 100% of times, and nobody would play a stealther, let alone a thief. THAT gameplay required skill and patience. Since the changes to passive detect, stealing scrolls requires LUCK. A perfectly played thief against clueless blues which do not take any precaution, still fail most of the times thanks to the RNG. I wonder what would you do if your blue/red after a flawless gameplay against an ettin/pvmer would die half of the time in place of the target..

But my favorite whine is that these days with passive reveal it is too hard to play a thief as all the scary pvpers can find and chase too much.

Again, you are clueless. The "scary pvpers" could find and chase easily thieves even before the passive reveal changes. The problem is that with passive reveal they don't even need to actually TRY. Now, to additionally prove that your point of view is warped, I ask you something. When was the last time you saw a detective around?

What a waste of time...

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

The disarm thief was horribly overpowered

To those who never took the time to learn the game mechanics. To those who did, disarm thieves were rather easy to kill. Which group were you in?

Kinda odd that when the griefing thives whine about the old days they claim that the 'chase' was the rush and what they played for. Yet today they are all against being chased around a spawn while still being able steal valuable scrolls. *shakes head*

First off, old time thieves did play for the chase. There aren't many people who actually play thieves any more, let alone people who actually played them before pub 16. Personally, I have never liked champ spawns either as a PvMer or a thief, so to be honest, I've never seen the enjoyment others have. I'd rather shop at the bank. Will I take a scroll there, sure...just not at the spawn...la

 

[ShadowJack]

most of the times disarm thieves just stole crap to get you to attack them. Do you think a gm or a vanq was worth anything?


Sometimes we got statues and stuff, but now it's all blessed



I dont' want blessed items removed, just insurance.

 

[Viper09]

Vanqs were worth a fair amount back then. GM items were not.

 

[ShadowJack]

they were worth enough to make something like 150-200k depending, unless your talking abuot the best vanq kat in the game.


Nothing compared to any of the gear people want in the game now, that costs in the tens of millions


the item based stuff was poorly thought out, and only appeals to certain types of gameplay. To bring it into a game that didn't have it on a large scale was pretty dumb. All playsyles should be covered I think. With tram and fel, this is totally possible.

 

[Viper09]

they were worth enough to make something like 150-200k depending, unless your talking abuot the best vanq kat in the game.


Nothing compared to any of the gear people want in the game now, that costs in the tens of millions


the item based stuff was poorly thought out, and only appeals to certain types of gameplay. To bring it into a game that didn't have it on a large scale was pretty dumb. All playsyles should be covered I think. With tram and fel, this is totally possible.

It was considered a lot back then! Economy in UO back then was different than it is now.

 

[ShadowJack]

yeah because the game is too safe now.


the game was designed with it's own economy and look where it's led, and how much items are now.


What happens to when an economy becomes so unbalanced is it crashes eventually. There is no worth when everything is obtainable by everyone with no loss.


you players should really listen to what people who've been here a long time are saying


We would know at least a little about gameplay, competition with other games, and safe playing, and the economy.

 

[Kith Kanan]

I can understand why thiefs want to steal from players like they used too , nakid and with no risk of loosing anything , all reward no risk . if it happens , I'll trow all my items in a trash barrel , demolish all my houses and delete all my toons , if I loose one valuable item to one of those griefers I'm gone , I would rather loos my entire suit to a game glitch and have it looted by a freaking orc .........

 

[Kith Kanan]

most of the times disarm thieves just stole crap to get you to attack them. Do you think a gm or a vanq was worth anything?


Sometimes we got statues and stuff, but now it's all blessed



I dont' want blessed items removed, just insurance.

a top end Vanq was worth 10x what an ornament of the magician is worth today , Gm gear was 1800 gold for an archer suit and 200 for a weapon , to compare the worth of GM equipment to a Vanq shows that you dont have a clue tbh.....

The problem today is not only that top end items cost alot , its the pain of matching the right suit.. one item stolen can ruin an entire suit , and take months to replace if at all possible...

If you dont like insurence then bugger of to siege

 

[Viper09]

I can understand why thiefs want to steal from players like they used too , nakid and with no risk of loosing anything , all reward no risk . if it happens , I'll trow all my items in a trash barrel , demolish all my houses and delete all my toons , if I loose one valuable item to one of those griefers I'm gone , I would rather loos my entire suit to a game glitch and have it looted by a freaking orc .........

Read below, or above if you cared to read prior to this...

Uhm, what the heck is this argument about thieves with 0 gear? Do you have any idea how quickly a thief with 0 gear will die in fel? I have seen these guys try to make it even now days with 0 gear in fel. You know what happens? The minute he/she is Id'ed as a thief, BAM, he/shes dead. Whether it be two spells or 2-3 good hard wacks with a weapon, they will be dead so fast. PvPers know how to eliminate even poor geared new players sitting in the guard zone. I think you need to give PvPers a little credit here on tracking their targets.

I am pretty sure that even if they did remove insurance that 0 gear thieves would not stand a very big chance on even surviving that long. Yeah, there are some good ones out there, but get real, people with 0 gear can get wacked quickly, if not before they steal, after they steal. After all, you can't even hide right after you steal.

QFTW :loser:

 

[ShadowJack]

a top end Vanq was worth 10x what an ornament of the magician is worth today , Gm gear was 1800 gold for an archer suit and 200 for a weapon , to compare the worth of GM equipment to a Vanq shows that you dont have a clue tbh.....

The problem today is not only that top end items cost alot , its the pain of matching the right suit.. one item stolen can ruin an entire suit , and take months to replace if at all possible...

If you dont like insurence then bugger of to siege

whatever the cost of vanqs


my thief didn't care about how much they cost, only that I could sell them for more than 10k


it's not all reward, I wouldn't see anything sometimes for months that was worth anything. I'd spend as much time looking and waiting for someone to slip up. Players were wise.


read some of my posts at the thief forum so you can understand the items don't count to the thief. We never were a rich class, that was the bards and the mages, and eventually the dexer. And by we, I mean people that actually played the thief as a main, and not the "leg humping" gate hopping crate thieves everyone seems to confuse us with. The pure thief player didn't ruin the class, people who got greedy didn't get anything good, and hung around bugging the pvpers stealing stuff to ruin the fights is what ruined it.



now with lrc, paladins that can cure/heal with no items, and other changes, the thief class could be brought back.


No insurance would level the game for people who don't have all of that gold and time to get it. And take the people who got rich in trammel from control of fel.


Hell, I would make factions or at least 2 of them necro and paladins to fight over the land, and to enforce the guards on the towns


if the paladins win, no stealing or killing or reds in town


the necros win, the opposite




there are enough towns to where there would always be somewhere for both sides, and that raids could be an every day thing, thus changing the game dynamic of the towns often.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

The disarm thief was horribly overpowered

To those who never took the time to learn the game mechanics. To those who did, disarm thieves were rather easy to kill. Which group were you in?

Kinda odd that when the griefing thives whine about the old days they claim that the 'chase' was the rush and what they played for. Yet today they are all against being chased around a spawn while still being able steal valuable scrolls. *shakes head*

First off, old time thieves did play for the chase. There aren't many people who actually play thieves any more, let alone people who actually played them before pub 16. Personally, I have never liked champ spawns either as a PvMer or a thief, so to be honest, I've never seen the enjoyment others have. I'd rather shop at the bank. Will I take a scroll there, sure...just not at the spawn...la

i have never played Siege so I freely admit that I dont know all the rules there but shouldnt all the thieves on production shards that are whining for the old days just pack up and head off to Siege??

 

[Viper09]

i have never played Siege so I freely admit that I dont know all the rules there but shouldnt all the thieves on production shards that are whining for the old days just pack up and head off to Siege??

You, it's so easy to say "go play siege," but not everyone is so willing to start completely all over on another shard and work up their skills on the ROT system. Not everyone even has the time to want to start all over.

 

[ShadowJack]

Or to make new friends and enemies.



And some shards have their own landmarks and history we were a part of.


and know what our shard has that others don't or have differently, we pride ourselves in it, and should have to move for people who assume it's just another landmark.


There used to be events and reasons some of these things are on the shard, and we were a part of making it that way.


pushing those players to SP instead of meeting in the middle is just wrong

 

[Nexus]

i have never played Siege so I freely admit that I dont know all the rules there but shouldnt all the thieves on production shards that are whining for the old days just pack up and head off to Siege??

Should one of the oldest skill sets in the game be limited to one shard? Would you want to be in a Shard that's 80% Thieves? Unlike PvPer's and many other groups Thieves or at least a good portion of the remaining active one's interested in actually bettering the skill, and not just Griefing players, still follow the old Thieves Code. If your not familiar with it, it reads as follows.

"The Code"

All thieves are expected to follow the following rules:

1. Thou shalt not steal from or loot fellow thieves.
2. Thou shalt not purposely reveal fellow thieves.
3. Thou shalt not identify disguised thieves.
4. Thou shalt not kill fellow thieves.
5. Thou shalt not follow fellow thieves around telling people that they are thieves.
6. Thou shalt offer aid and comfort to fellow thieves when possible.
7. Thou shalt not ask stupid questions that are thoroughly covered in the FAQ.
8. Thou shalt check the forum to see if thine question as already been answered.
9. Thou shalt retain a sense of humor.
10. Thou shalt not call thy self a thief if thou hast not stolen from thine fellow player.
11. Thou shalt remember that thine profession is spelled thief and not theif.

For those of us who actually want to be respectable thieves, moving to siege wouldn't do much as it would leave us with just as few marks for us.

 

[ShadowJack]

number 9 has left Uo almost completly

 

[Viper09]

number 9 has left Uo almost completly

I still retain a sense of humor on my guy
Particularly when people challenge my thief to a PvP duel despite the fact he only has wrestling for combat, lol

 

[ShadowJack]

lol or the



"Don't make me get my main"

 

[Multani]

There has always been a huge support group for a Pre Pub 16 server, yet all we get is Stygian Abyss . . . If we just got an old server it would calm the uproar of so many players, like the thief who is not a factor in today's game.

Of course EA/Mythic will never acknowledge that the game was best the way it was, so we will keep getting new races and new plants to grow because that is where they see the future of the game.

 

[Nexus]

There has always been a huge support group for a Pre Pub 16 server, yet all we get is Stygian Abyss . . . If we just got an old server it would calm the uproar of so many players, like the thief who is not a factor in today's game.

Of course EA/Mythic will never acknowledge that the game was best the way it was, so we will keep getting new races and new plants to grow because that is where they see the future of the game.

That's why some of us like the idea of killing off insurance/blessed status in Fel. It's the next best thing to be honest and doesn't require any new hardware just a bit of creative coding.

 

[ShadowJack]

people actually grow plants?



Is that a class now? lol


what's your main


gardener


I own

 

[Multani]

That's why some of us like the idea of killing off insurance/blessed status in Fel. It's the next best thing to be honest and doesn't require any new hardware just a bit of creative coding.

And why exactly would this be a good thing? I can't think of any reason how in today's market this could be considered a good change.

 

[ShadowJack]

because there is nothing out there like it, and it's proven to draw people who enjoy playing it. (ie me and other people who are posting, and many many more who aren't, and who dont' even know we're trying to get them back into the game)

 

[Nexus]

And why exactly would this be a good thing? I can't think of any reason how in today's market this could be considered a good change.

Because it leaves options that cater to both old and new players. Trammel Malas Tokuno and Ilsh would still have item based play.

 

[Uvtha]

Real stealing was about the excitment of tracking down what you want and either taking it completly unnoticed, or taking it and living to keep it.

Were/are there griefers? Duh, but not all of us did it to ruin the days of others. Outside of killing it was one of the only real exhilierations you could find in the game.

Fel should loose all insurance or have it severly limited. It makes for better pvp anyway.

 

[Viper09]

Honestly, a thief who is a griefer is a lot better than a pk who is a griefer, lol.
I'd rather be griefed by a thief than a pk. After all, as the quote to my guild says:
"Stealing is simply looting from the living"

It would be: "Stealing is simply looting but without the violence," or "...with killing," but I couldn't have that many characters in the charter.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Who actually wants thieves restored to their former power? Griefers or actual players?

Check this thread for the answer.

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=101270

-Galen's player

 

[Nexus]

Real stealing was about the excitment of tracking down what you want and either taking it completly unnoticed, or taking it and living to keep it.

Were/are there griefers? Duh, but not all of us did it to ruin the days of others. Outside of killing it was one of the only real exhilierations you could find in the game.

Fel should loose all insurance or have it severly limited. It makes for better pvp anyway.

What group hasn't had Griefers.......The Smiths that used to tell you your item "Broke" on a repair, the Tamer with 50 White Wyrms taking over a spawn you'd been working, the PK that would hunt you down just to Rez kill you, the Blues that had hiding that would wait at the Chaos Shrine in the days of Stat loss.......

Does that give the right to or obviously condemn everyone that plays a certain template? No it doesn't.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Link?



Huh? I try to steal items that could be of value, but for some reason they are not stealable, how exactly does that make me a griefer?...la

Link? Take some ginko biloba if you cant remember your own posts...

Stealing items of value and stealing a plain jane engraving tool are two different things. They have nothing to do with one another...in any way...shape...or form.

C'mon Rico...even the game knew better...

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

i have never played Siege so I freely admit that I dont know all the rules there but shouldnt all the thieves on production shards that are whining for the old days just pack up and head off to Siege??

You, it's so easy to say "go play siege," but not everyone is so willing to start completely all over on another shard and work up their skills on the ROT system. Not everyone even has the time to want to start all over.

I never said it was easy to go play Siege.

What I said was that if you want to play an oldstyle thief why dont you just move to Siege?

Its quite obvious by now that you cant have it both ways.
Do people wanna play thieves or not? If you miss it soooo much why are you playing on a production shard and whining for the old days?

Correct me if I am wrong but dont almost all oldstyle thieves complain that insurance ruined their template?
Where currently is there no insurance? Siege!!

You have options. Move to Siege or stop whining.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

i have never played Siege so I freely admit that I dont know all the rules there but shouldnt all the thieves on production shards that are whining for the old days just pack up and head off to Siege??

Should one of the oldest skill sets in the game be limited to one shard? Would you want to be in a Shard that's 80% Thieves? Unlike PvPer's and many other groups Thieves or at least a good portion of the remaining active one's interested in actually bettering the skill, and not just Griefing players, still follow the old Thieves Code. If your not familiar with it, it reads as follows.

"The Code"

All thieves are expected to follow the following rules:

1. Thou shalt not steal from or loot fellow thieves.
2. Thou shalt not purposely reveal fellow thieves.
3. Thou shalt not identify disguised thieves.
4. Thou shalt not kill fellow thieves.
5. Thou shalt not follow fellow thieves around telling people that they are thieves.
6. Thou shalt offer aid and comfort to fellow thieves when possible.
7. Thou shalt not ask stupid questions that are thoroughly covered in the FAQ.
8. Thou shalt check the forum to see if thine question as already been answered.
9. Thou shalt retain a sense of humor.
10. Thou shalt not call thy self a thief if thou hast not stolen from thine fellow player.
11. Thou shalt remember that thine profession is spelled thief and not theif.

For those of us who actually want to be respectable thieves, moving to siege wouldn't do much as it would leave us with just as few marks for us.

Once again I would like to thank you Nexus for proving my points so clearly.

You dont wanna move to Siege because that would put you in the company of other thieves? Lmao, you must not like your own company. Why is that? Dont like being griefed? Bingo!!

Would mages not wanna be in the company of other mages? Of course they would.

Warriors would have no problem being with other warriors.

Come to think of it damn near every other class by nature would love to be in the company of its peers. Except the griefers of course(Thieves)

But according to you thieves dont wanna be in their own company.
\Do you really think that anyone believes that it would be 80% thieves or that there arent enough non-thieves on Siege to grief?

Would you like the actual translation of your infantile thieves code btw? When correctly & impartially translated it reads "thou shalt not grief thy fellow thief, but everybody else is okay to grief"

Too sad

 

[Chad Sexington]

Once again I would like to thank you Nexus for proving my points so clearly.

You dont wanna move to Siege because that would put you in the company of other thieves? Lmao, you must not like your own company. Why is that? Dont like being griefed? Bingo!!

He plays both Chesapeake & Siege.

Would you like the actual translation of your infantile thieves code btw? When correctly & impartially translated it reads "thou shalt not grief thy fellow thief, but everybody else is okay to grief"

Too sad

"Correctly & impartially?"

Judging from this thread, you are far from impartial. Just say what you have to say. No need to add extra flair to your statements.