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How do you think about to restrict using Powder of Fortifying on imbued items?

Are you for or against a restriction of using Powder of Fortifying on imbued items?

  • Completely Yes. Using Powder of Fortifying on imbued items should be definitely restricted.

    Votes: 14 14.7%
  • Yes, if items can be crafted relatively easily and successfully by Imbuing.

    Votes: 18 18.9%
  • No. Damm with the restriction.

    Votes: 63 66.3%

  • Total voters
    95

Nexus

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I wear a very distinctive Tokuno-dyed suit of mostly-artifact platemail that I assembled at the cost of most of my personal funds. Making things such that this suit could be replaced (at reasonably low cost) on one or two days notice would require a total overhaul of pretty much every aspect of the game.
No it would require a total overhaul of how players view things. What's the risk in the game if you can't loose anything? For all I hear the PvPers and what not call those who PvM care bears and trammies their utter reliance on Insurance makes them just as bad...they fight and die or fight and win with no risk either way. It's all a mindset.
 

Violence

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It's much more than a mere matter of view-point. Don't make any wrong assumptions, the implementation of such things would require a wipe and restart of Ultima Online after which less than 20% of the players who spent 10 years on this game will return.
Most likely less than 50% of the total players will return to be honest.
Have you seen any successfull MMORPG having loss of items? Breakable stuff? Severe death penalties? Or any Single Player game?

I accept taking risks in order to be rewarded with something. Do you understand? That's a huge difference right there and explains what Risk V. Reward really means. Why would I take a risk (lose durability in every single fight for example) if there is no reward?

Besides what reward will you offer that will make up for my lost suit? An exact copy of the suit? I wouldn't settle with less.
Then why lose it to begin with? LOL.
PvP is about killing and dying and champ spawns. Don't be so romantic. Just people knowing you for your skill and your insurance going up or down.

Someone said we should go play Single Player games.. Well it's more impersonal and seclusive to sell stuff -especially through a shop- to people than to kill them. And it's x2 the fun when you fight against other people, that's why Deathmatch in all its forms is popular in all Multiplayer games.

Even if it would take me 1 minute to assemble my next suit well I DON'T WANT TO SPEND 1 MINUTE, I want to head in for fighting faster because I enjoy this SOCIAL ACTIVITY called PvP. All you want is to sell me stuff, not even seeing me buying them. UO PvP has something from Unrwal in it, based on Respawning and being instantly ready and people love it. And we also love improving our stuffz the more we play not losing them. Fail. :loser:

Anyway I could go on but I've gone beyond myself explaining. Can't be bothered and the poll itself speaks volumes.
 
S

Sarphus

Guest
Polls like this are fruitless. We don't know enough about the system yet to make a good poll yet. For all we know, imbuements have a lifecycle on an individual basis.

IMO, imbuements should have a life cycle, but they should not reduce the life cycle of the item that was imbued. That is assuming that imbuing can be done to existing items.

If, however, imbuing can only be done to new, player-crafted items; I don't have a problem with the item itself having a lifecycle.

Like I said... we have nowhere near enough information on imbuing to make judgements on how it should be balanced (which is why this poll is ineffective)

EDIT:
With new SA info planned to be released with the new SA site tomorrow; I think we may have enough information to make a good poll.
 

athos_uo

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i think this is a terrable idea no offense meant but any piece that can't be repaired forever i wont even bother using so i say pof should be used on all armor and weapons and shields or what have you forever and with out any restrictions.
i completely agree with you Dungeon Explorer in my opinion its a complete waste to use something like armor or weapons that will eventually go poof because you cant use pof on it so i wont use it either.
not a good idea at all i also will not wear or use something that cant be repaired as many times as you want.
Ok, Death Penalty/Insurance Removal/Breakable Items threads are actually FAR MORE ANNOYING THAT ANY OTHER TYPE OF THREAD AT THIS POINT.

If an item can't last forever, I don't want it either.
I'd like to say one more thing to those who don't want to lose their items.

I can see that you feel your items very beloved. But please reconsider that you are playing an MMO. It is not only you, but also many other people are playing this game at the same time. The activity of craftspeople will wither without enough circulation of items. This means that the very attractive part of this game are wilting. But if you agree with that your items could be substituted by Imbuing under some conditions(e.g. relatively easily and successfully imbued, with rather high durability at first when crafted, etc), it will inevitably evoke circulation of items and will also imbue craftspeople with activity, which make the whole game more vital and vibrant. And I think this is one of the most important things, much more than items, in every MMO.
 
M

MYUO

Guest
I'd like to say one more thing to those who don't want to lose their items.

I can see that you feel your items very beloved. But please reconsider that you are playing an MMO. It is not only you, but also many other people are playing this game at the same time. The activity of craftspeople will wither without enough circulation of items. This means that the very attractive part of this game are wilting. But if you agree with that your items could be substituted by Imbuing under some conditions(e.g. relatively easily and successfully imbued, with rather high durability at first when crafted, etc), it will inevitably evoke circulation of items and will also imbue craftspeople with activity, which make the whole game more vital and vibrant. And I think this is one of the most important things, much more than items, in every MMO.
You have a valid point of limiting the life span of high end items. In fact, UO dev now has the opportunity to undo the damage caused by valorite runic hammer dupe and scripted barbed kits through imbuing and SA. Of course we don't know much details yet but now it is the time for us to give the input on the overall design.

Imbuing can raise enough player interest through creating high end items and/or through simplying the armor/weapon assemblying process. Sure, it is nice to add another +mana 15 on an already uber item. But that only make imbuing look like the expanded item enhancement.

IMO it will be brilliant for imbuing to help us simplying the current equipment assembly process. For example, make it change the resists on an armor from 19/6/23/12/25 to 17/17/17/17/17. It will make equipment selection a lot more easier. You see a lot of players don't like restricting powder use on their gears. Why? because it is just too much work to put together a set of high end equipment. Imbuing should be designed to make the whole process easier.

Once the combat item system is simplified, ppl will be willing to try different outfits or even accept limited life span of high end items.
 
K

kennykilleduo

Guest
Powder of fort should have been removed LONG time ago...Allowing the use of it in this manner will make matters worse..
 
X

xStrikerx

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...For example, make it change the resists on an armor from 19/6/23/12/25 to 17/17/17/17/17. It will make equipment selection a lot more easier....
This would be so awesome, I wouldnt care if my crafted armor could break then (rare or no longer available arties I would have a problem with). Most of the problems I have with building suits is finding the right distrubution of resists.
 
L

Loqucious

Guest
POF and item repair IMO has been a major problem in this game. It has severely hurt the crafters as well as the community because crafters are hardly needed anymore and the community that used to rally around them has vanished.

There is nothing wrong with items breaking. We just need to be able to craft them again after some work.
 

Violence

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Crafters' activity will never wither as long as you vie to get a better runic-crafted item to sell us plus all the consumables used in combat.

Also consider the items that will come with SA, decorative craftables and whatnot.

You do not have to hinder my gameplay as a PvPer simply because you like crafting items. Crafters in all games where item breaking does not exist are still having loads of fun.

It is up to you to become creative. On my crafter I'm actually having fun even though I craft nothing a fighter would buy. SQUIRREL STATUES FTW! ;P
Oh by the way. EVERYONE has a crafter.. I think you're missing that part when you are trying to tell people the game will become more social.
 

Nexus

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Oh by the way. EVERYONE has a crafter.. I think you're missing that part when you are trying to tell people the game will become more social.

That's bad? When and if a system is put into place that allows people to make high end gear without the use of Runic tools it becomes an open market open for competition. Meaning anyone and everyone with a crafter can get in on the game, not just the handful that buy 50 barbed kits a week or have a couple hundred duped one's stuck away. Opening up the market to as many crafters as possible is good it has a trickle down effect. The Crafter can sell goods, the resource farmers can sell resources, and get this if they can ever get scripting under control those resource farming can go back to being the way newbies make gold :eek: helping new players get over the hump, and get this Prices go DOWN. Gold gets distributed across the player base instead of a handful with the largest portion. If the system was like that you wouldn't need insurance because you could effectively replace or possibly find better gear because there would be a larger market for items. The only hard to get things would be the Pixel Crack items that are limited in nature to start with like Doom Arties, Library Collection items, ToT items ect. But hey if there are items that can compete with those in quality what's the point.
 

athos_uo

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Oh by the way. EVERYONE has a crafter.. I think you're missing that part when you are trying to tell people the game will become more social.
I say that if a circulation of items took place once again, it would increase the demand for crafting, which would make crafting itself vivid and lead to making the whole game more vibrant. You may play with your craftscharacter(s) as well as now and it doesn't conflict with increase of the demand for crafting. However, I don't think you would play with your craftscharacter(s) so often as now, since you would become busier in your PvPing because of the activation of the whole world, and you would have less time to spend to craft by yourself. I think you would prefer relying on other craftspeople to crafting by yourself.
 
M

MYUO

Guest
This would be so awesome, I wouldnt care if my crafted armor could break then (rare or no longer available arties I would have a problem with). Most of the problems I have with building suits is finding the right distrubution of resists.
Yeah, many ppl just look at the problems on the surface - items last forever so no one needs stuff from crafters. They don't see the real problem: the item system is over-complicated - from organizing the items (no jewlry box, armor chest, etc.) to calculate all the numbers (the increments of each mods should be larger, e.g. 5% in DI, HCI, DCI, HLD, HLA, etc instead of 1%; even the increment in resists should be 5%).

The result? No one can afford to change his/her gear. Not because of gold, but because of time and brain cells.

Once the item system becomes more player-friendly, players will be more willing to use breakable items.

IMO, an unfriendly item system and wide-spead cheating are two major factors that causes UO going downhill.
 

Gildar

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A day or 2 that you can't play that character because they lost something that right now they would never lose?


Yeah, I know I'D have a problem with that.
How about 3-5 hours of playtime (gold farming, resource gathering and crafting, playing the market, [other money-making playstyle of your choice]) to replace a full suit of items that should last a minimum of 100 hours of playtime (repairing it before it hits 0, but always losing 1 max durability during repair [meaning you were unlucky with repairs]; giving up when it drops below 25 max durability), with prior knowledge that it will eventually break ("Unfortifiable" item property), and an easy way to know when the breaking point was coming (durability)?

That should encourage you to have one or two spare suits in the bank, and you should be able to gather enough gold through normal gameplay (or minor deviations from normal gameplay [picking up gold at a champ spawn if you PvP instead of just leaving it there; selling some powerscrolls instead of giving them away; looting corpses instead of just hunting for the artifact drops... whatever little extra work you might need to do to make an unusual non-profitable playstyle profitable]) to get a new suit by just spending a couple minutes talking with crafters and/or shopping around Luna to get replacement pieces.
 
C

Connor_Graham

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How about 3-5 hours of playtime (gold farming, resource gathering and crafting, playing the market, [other money-making playstyle of your choice]) to replace a full suit of items that should last a minimum of 100 hours of playtime (repairing it before it hits 0, but always losing 1 max durability during repair [meaning you were unlucky with repairs]; giving up when it drops below 25 max durability), with prior knowledge that it will eventually break ("Unfortifiable" item property), and an easy way to know when the breaking point was coming (durability)?

That should encourage you to have one or two spare suits in the bank, and you should be able to gather enough gold through normal gameplay (or minor deviations from normal gameplay [picking up gold at a champ spawn if you PvP instead of just leaving it there; selling some powerscrolls instead of giving them away; looting corpses instead of just hunting for the artifact drops... whatever little extra work you might need to do to make an unusual non-profitable playstyle profitable]) to get a new suit by just spending a couple minutes talking with crafters and/or shopping around Luna to get replacement pieces.
No, because then the game turns into some of my gametime doing something I "HAVE" to do, instead of doing things I "WANT" to do. That becomes too much like work and less of having fun.
 

Wenchkin

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I don't have an issue with these items being PoF free. I'm utterly sick of the rush to acquire new items then the complete lack of interest a week later. Then cries for "new content" because the stuff is being left at the bank or dungeon floor, unwanted. Said items just remain in the game and the only good use for them is spring cleanup rewards. I don't want to wait till next spring and hope the spare items I have will be turn-ins. I'd much rather see a steady market for goods and move away from having to insure items constantly.

I don't hear talk about removing the items which have been treated with PoF or the PoF itself, so those systems are still there for the players who chose them, at least for now. But those of us who play fighters and crafters should also be able to enjoy a healthy marketplace and crafting demand. It's one thing to want the best for your warrior, but what if you played a crafter?

Wenchy
 

Wenchkin

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No, because then the game turns into some of my gametime doing something I "HAVE" to do, instead of doing things I "WANT" to do. That becomes too much like work and less of having fun.
Oh my... have we really become so hooked on items that it's too harsh that something breaks and needs replacing?

Once again I want to find the people responsible for creating insurance and PoF and kick their backsides...

Why is your addiction to permanent items more important than the enjoyment of a crafter play style which depends on steady demand for products? I don't have trouble having fun with my fighters, but I can't say that the crafter's life is quite so enthralling these days.

Wenchy
 
C

Connor_Graham

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Why is your addiction to permanent items more important than the enjoyment of a crafter play style which depends on steady demand for products? I don't have trouble having fun with my fighters, but I can't say that the crafter's life is quite so enthralling these days.

Wenchy
This might hold true if it wasn't for the fact that most people already have their own crafters.
 
H

Harb

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... but what if you played a crafter?
Part of the reason I'm staying out of the back/ forth on this one is due to what we do not know. Much depends on the details of imbuing. My guess is that it "may" impact runics, aside from the periferral impact, their effects may need to be completely adjusted. Runics and BOD rewards such as PoFs these days are central to the dedicated crafter. Any cool item needs PoF to be useful, and crafters generate these. For Pete's sake, CBDs on my shard now sell for close to a million! So I don't see crafters "going out of business," regardless of what happens with imbuing. For the skill and byproducts to be useful and desireable, let us fortify them.
 

Wenchkin

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And people who actively play crafters therefore should expect a life of drudge in the service of their glamourous warrior family members? Ick :( Surely, regardless of what character you're playing, you want some fun? Some satisfaction even. Maybe even someone asking if you can make a specific item to order while you're at the bank? Assuming your crafter leaves the cellar ;)

Though if most people have crafters, there's nothing stopping them from making their own items if the durability pops on the old ones, is there? Surely if you're running a crafter, having to go out and collect or buy resources is part of life. So make your replacements or buy from another crafter. No biggie. I think that's much better than having to mess around acquiring ugly-spugly arties which don't suit a character and cost a fortune both to buy and insure.

These items are going to be much more affordable, and if they can't be tarted up with PoF, chances are new players can get a decent set of kit together too. Which to me sounds much better than a system where good suit often equals rich (or formerly rich) player.

Wenchy
 
E

Eslake

Guest
Oh my... have we really become so hooked on items that it's too harsh that something breaks and needs replacing?

Once again I want to find the people responsible for creating insurance and PoF and kick their backsides...

Why is your addiction to permanent items more important than the enjoyment of a crafter play style which depends on steady demand for products? I don't have trouble having fun with my fighters, but I can't say that the crafter's life is quite so enthralling these days.

Wenchy
PoF has nothing to do with the lack of game-life for crafters. My first character ever was a miner, then a smith, then a tailor...

PoF didn't put him out of work.
PoF didn't empty the forges.
BODs + Power Hour did.

Smith BODs and Power Hour made it so that everyone wanted a smith, and everyone could Have a smith. It wasn't long before there were more smiths than there were active accounts. Less than a year later the same thing happened with Tailor BODs.

So even if they pulled artifacts, blesses, and insurance completely, leaving us all with uninsured GM crafted gear, it wouldn't bring back Crafters back to what they once were, because nearly everyone has their OWN crafter(s) to handle their needs.


If you think BOD scripting is bad now, imagine what it would be like if either PoF Or Insurance were removed. The need for runics would go through the roof, the smith and tailor shops would all be packed 24/7 with scripters getting orders to supply them, and even more would be willing to try to dupe the ones they have.

Now imagine if BOTH were removed. ;)
 

Wenchkin

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I never said it would magic away all the crap we've had in game since I started out. I simply think it would make it more satisfying if we had steady demand for making some new items instead of the rush to produce the latest thing followed by hanging up the sewing kit for another lull. I have crafters who do need to make steady supplies of consumables, I just want a similar thing when I use my tailor and smith skills.

I don't have the boredom threshold to do BODs regularly, it was a novelty when it arrived, but I'd sooner do my RL tax forms 3000 times than sit filling BODs. If that's the best that my tailor and smith should hope for, I'll stick to playing my fisher chef. Presuming a nerf to cooking isn't due lol.

As for insurance or PoF removal causing more cheats, I'm not sure I even care about that LOL. Going from too many cheats to even more cheats is like saying do you prefer a puncture in one tyre or two? Either way it's crap! :D We shouldn't have the cheats that are present already. Nor should we refuse all the benefits to crafters simply because it might lead to cheating. I see your point, but I don't want my crafters held back by a herd of robots ;)

Wenchy
 
E

Eslake

Guest
As for insurance or PoF removal causing more cheats, I'm not sure I even care about that LOL. Going from too many cheats to even more cheats is like saying do you prefer a puncture in one tyre or two? Either way it's crap! :D We shouldn't have the cheats that are present already. Nor should we refuse all the benefits to crafters simply because it might lead to cheating. I see your point, but I don't want my crafters held back by a herd of robots ;)

Wenchy
I wasn't suggesting that the increase in scripting was a reason not to remove PoF and insurance.
I was simply showing that while removing them would Not help anything, it Would hurt.

Your own crafter can already provide exactly what you are asking for. Just play your other characters without insuring their items. ;) *Poof* you got exactly what you want, a reason to steadily supply something.

The game was always item-based to a large degree, but prior to AoS the existance of items beyond player-crafted was very limited. Since every GM smith could make the same quality of gear, it didn't matter that we had no insurance.
If you took your indy vanq kryss out to fight, you risked losing it. That had no effect on crafters at all, it was simply a choice.

AoS took item-dependancy to a new extreme. Everything has properties now, and those properties are of critical importance since monsters have been altered over time to keep pace with the new items and skills.

If you tried to go hunting today in GM-crafted exceptional chain armor you would be dead in short order. Runic crafted items are the Baseline now, and therin lies the problem with making such items expendable.

When the baseline is not something that can be readily produced, it must have some method of maintenance to keep it in play. If they started selling barbed sewing kits on NPCs, sure, it would make perfect sense to now remove insurance.

There are a lot of reasons to put runics on NPCs of course, but that isn't the topic here. :p
 

athos_uo

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If they started selling barbed sewing kits on NPCs, sure, it would make perfect sense to now remove insurance.
Although details of Imbuing are not opened to public, but I think we can guess that introducing of the skill has a similar effect of selling barbed kits on NPCs. I guess that it works as a kind of enhancing:

- You can unravel magic ingredients from magic items(the items are destroyed when unravelled).
- You can imbue an item with magic ingredients and other resources. Imbuing means to enhance item with magic ingredients and rare metal. The rarer metal with which you imbue is, the more the number of properties with which you can imbue an item is. For example, with valorite you can imbue an item with 5 properties at most.
(Of course this is my guess)

So if you imbue items with valorite, you can have items with 5 properties, which are similar to valorite kits.

If it is the case and you can imbue items relatively easily and successfully, I think that time is ripe for removing PoF from the game.
 

Beefybone

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Then I quit, and so do lots of other people. The average slob in the street likes his armor, and doesn't really give a crap whether some crafter with a Luna vendor ever sells anything again or not.
 
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