Spellweaving changes

[agpga]

so just checking because I never heard what they were. One of the FoF i do believe said we were getting changes and we would find out at the town hall so any news let a guy know thanks

 

[Jeremy]

Oh! Yeah, it didn't come up, actually. It'll be in the TC notes when they go up, but here's the scoop.

- Arcane Focus will require a minimum of two people to cast (which is how it is right now.)

- Casting it anywhere but an Arcane Circle will give you a Focus with a level equal to number of casters - 1 (which is how it is now.)

- Casting in an Arcane Circle (such as in Heartwood or a crafted Circle in a player house) will give you a 1 level bonus. (bringing you back to the pre-patch level.)

- Casting in Prism of Light will give you the Arcane Circle bonus plus an additional bonus, for a maximum possible focus level 6. (one higher than the original max of 5.)

So the short version is casting it anywhere but an Arcane Circle gives you a maximum 4, casting in a non-PoL Arcane Circle gives max 5, and Prism of Light gives max 6

 

[Ailish]

So ... in sum, the ability to cast it anywhere (I assume this means still on an altar, such as in Doom or the champ spawn alters) was nerfed a bit, and everything else will be like normal (what it was before) and it just took a little extra coding to do??

BTW, the highest level in the Prism always was 6 before the last changes.

(This leads me to believe that the nerf was in fact a bug, that you guys denied, that will now be fixed )

 

[Jeremy]

No, the code really was broken. It's much cleaner now - and the non-Arcane Circle spots were never intended to be the same quality as the Arcane Circles.

 

[Merv DeGriff]

So to clarify, a player solo after this update will still not be able to self cast a level 1 focus as they were able to prior to last patch.

Solo players (or people online at an off peak hour) with spell weaving remain nerfed, people who can get friends to an alter are un-nerfed, and groups who forgot to get one before leaving are getting love.

Well this is better than what was previously done, but I think it still stinks, guess I'll see what mysticism has to offer... when ever that comes out.

 

[Eslake]

With the sequence of nerfs SW has had now, most have simply given it up.

I only have it on 1 character now, and that is only because I haven't yet decided which USEFUL skill I will replace it with.

 

[Ailish]

Um ... hate to nitpick here Eslake, but what she said was basically they gave all the focus stuff back, with the caveat of no 1 person focus (never intended in the first place) and a -1 focus on an altar that is not an Arcane circle ...

If you guys really relied on a lv 1 focus ... i fell sorry for you.

 

[Juicy Fruit]

I relied on a level 1, if not I would spend an hour or more spamming at luna and wbb and in guild chat for ppl that wanted to jump in a circle, and after all that time that would normally only net me 2 other ppl, maybe 3 on occasion. I Only had a 5 twice and a 6 once. I am at 115 and still couldn't find ppl. I am part of a big guild too .... so I relied on a level 1 and the changes hurt me ....

 

[Draxous]

I relied on a level 1, if not I would spend an hour or more spamming at luna and wbb and in guild chat for ppl that wanted to jump in a circle, and after all that time that would normally only net me 2 other ppl, maybe 3 on occasion. I Only had a 5 twice and a 6 once. I am at 115 and still couldn't find ppl. I am part of a big guild too .... so I relied on a level 1 and the changes hurt me ....

I think they should remove the with-in 20 skill points requirement from the spell.

I also think they should raise the level at which you need to be in order to cast the spell, to get rid of people with no spellweaving taking huge advantage of the skill... even though, a lot of people enjoy doing so, I'd love to see it gone.

 

[Basara]

Hey, maybe you all should try to get Jeremy and the others to add an arcane circle in Luna, and get all the count-watchers to stand in it? (just kidding)

But, seriously, A human can cast Arcane circle with JOAT (if they've done the quest) at 0 real skill, and one thing that can be done is to get 4 friends to pile onto a circle with a spellweaver, the weavers present all stone off their skill, have a SW-enabled 0-skill human cast Arcane Circle, and bingo - everyone gets a Level 5 focus (before the nerf, or after the fixes - level 4 currently). Then, all the weavers pull their skill back onto the character, and are set for 5-6 hours.

And, even a SW-enabled 0-skill human can cast some impressive Gift of renewals with a level 4 or 5 focus.

Given this, it would probably be in the best interest of the skill to kill the "within 20" requirement, as there are ways around it.

 

[D'Amavir]

Um ... hate to nitpick here Eslake, but what she said was basically they gave all the focus stuff back, with the caveat of no 1 person focus (never intended in the first place) and a -1 focus on an altar that is not an Arcane circle ...

If you guys really relied on a lv 1 focus ... i fell sorry for you.

Yes, because there are soooo many players on all the shards that finding someone that plays the same time as you and has spellweaving and has spellweaving at a level compatible with yours and doesn't have a group they are already doing a focus with and are not busy and is willing to go with you to do a focus is quite easy.

And because that level 1 focus is soooo overpowering that it had to be removed. Indeed. Silly players, relying on that overpowered level 1 focus when they should be casting the level 6 one instead. Nerf eet!

 

[Ailish]

You guys all miss the fact that a level 1 focus was never intended, never supposed to be in the game. That is not called nerfing, that is called bug-fix.

I guess I was just spoiled, but on itty bitty Napa I never had an issue getting a level 6 focus - usually had spare people to boot and it had to be cast more than once so everyone got their focus and got both their red and blue SWer's taken care of.

Of course, we also used ICQ to get in touch with eachother, and as a general rule got a 120 focus 2x per day, even if that was the only thing we logged in for at that specific time. Havent done that since the bump-down of the focus, but I can imagine we will be back to it soon.

 

[BartofCats]

Oh! Yeah, it didn't come up, actually. It'll be in the TC notes when they go up, but here's the scoop.

- Arcane Focus will require a minimum of two people to cast (which is how it is right now.)

- Casting it anywhere but an Arcane Circle will give you a Focus with a level equal to number of casters - 1 (which is how it is now.)

- Casting in an Arcane Circle (such as in Heartwood or a crafted Circle in a player house) will give you a 1 level bonus. (bringing you back to the pre-patch level.)

- Casting in Prism of Light will give you the Arcane Circle bonus plus an additional bonus, for a maximum possible focus level 6. (one higher than the original max of 5.)

So the short version is casting it anywhere but an Arcane Circle gives you a maximum 4, casting in a non-PoL Arcane Circle gives max 5, and Prism of Light gives max 6

So Jeremy.. could you clarify please?? Did this get some thought to it?? or are people Actually going to be able to go down into the prisim, pay their 10K gold to go get a level 6 focus, only to be able to come OUT OF THE PRISIM and have some "griefer" run around spamming arcane circle to drop an earned level 6 focus to a level 2? That to me just doesn't seem right.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Oh! Yeah, it didn't come up, actually. It'll be in the TC notes when they go up, but here's the scoop.

- Arcane Focus will require a minimum of two people to cast (which is how it is right now.)

- Casting it anywhere but an Arcane Circle will give you a Focus with a level equal to number of casters - 1 (which is how it is now.)

- Casting in an Arcane Circle (such as in Heartwood or a crafted Circle in a player house) will give you a 1 level bonus. (bringing you back to the pre-patch level.)

- Casting in Prism of Light will give you the Arcane Circle bonus plus an additional bonus, for a maximum possible focus level 6. (one higher than the original max of 5.)

So the short version is casting it anywhere but an Arcane Circle gives you a maximum 4, casting in a non-PoL Arcane Circle gives max 5, and Prism of Light gives max 6

how is this a fix or a change? i always thought that Prism of Light requirement was arbitrary. can you please explain why there needs to be a level above level 5 to begin with and why we should have to go to a special place to get it.

this has not made sense to me since UOML came out, why continue a weird policy like this?

it really is anti-community. you expect people to cross guild lines to be forced to do this. no guild has 5 spellweavers on at any given time in today's UO except maybe on Atlantic

 

[ultima online]

So Jeremy.. could you clarify please?? Did this get some thought to it?? or are people Actually going to be able to go down into the prisim, pay their 10K gold to go get a level 6 focus, only to be able to come OUT OF THE PRISIM and have some "griefer" run around spamming arcane circle to drop an earned level 6 focus to a level 2? That to me just doesn't seem right.

anywhere you can cast arcane focus, meaning a petagram, arcane circle or an abbatoir. so no that wouldnt happen

 

[BartofCats]

anywhere you can cast arcane focus, meaning a petagram, arcane circle or an abbatoir. so no that wouldnt happen

read it again....

"- Casting it anywhere but an Arcane Circle will give you a Focus with a level equal to number of casters - 1 (which is how it is now.)"

Surely you cant be mistaken that someone wont grief someone else because they want a focus but dont want to ask about it.

 

[ultima online]

read it again....

"- Casting it anywhere but an Arcane Circle will give you a Focus with a level equal to number of casters - 1 (which is how it is now.)"

Surely you cant be mistaken that someone wont grief someone else because they want a focus but dont want to ask about it.

arcane circle can only be cast whilst standing on an arcane circle, a pentagram and/or an abbatoir, so no it defiantly can not happen! all thats changing is the amount of people needed to get a focus (to what was intended) not where you can cast one.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Casting it anywhere but an Arcane Circle will give you a Focus with a level equal to number of casters - 1 (which is how it is now.)

Does that mean, you will be able to cast an Arcane Circle anywhere? Do you have to stand on the same spot with your fellow arcanist(s)?

To me, as a passionate Spellweaver, this change sounds fair. Casting a Focus all by yourself seems unlogic, cause then they could have just made the basic spell properties more powerful. I like that the old way of improving your powers with other arcanists will be brought back to life! I already had thought about dropping the skill.

If it was up to me, I'd even vote to raise the minimum spellweaving skill requirements to cast an Arcane Circle, to avoid abuse by people with zero skill and the use of soulstones.

 

[D'Amavir]

If it was up to me, I'd even vote to raise the minimum spellweaving skill requirements to cast an Arcane Circle, to avoid abuse by people with zero skill and the use of soulstones.

That I can agree with. Its silly to have a zero skill spellweaver be able to cast a focus the same as a legendary spellweaver can. I would like tosee the 20 point spread changed a little. As it is now, my evil aligned legendary spellweaver is hard pressed to find a casting circle that fits into both my rp and ooc needs.

 

[ultima online]

Casting it anywhere but an Arcane Circle will give you a Focus with a level equal to number of casters - 1 (which is how it is now.)

Does that mean, you will be able to cast an Arcane Circle anywhere? Do you have to stand on the same spot with your fellow arcanist(s)?

To me, as a passionate Spellweaver, this change sounds fair. Casting a Focus all by yourself seems unlogic, cause then they could have just made the basic spell properties more powerful. I like that the old way of improving your powers with other arcanists will be brought back to life! I already had thought about dropping the skill.

If it was up to me, I'd even vote to raise the minimum spellweaving skill requirements to cast an Arcane Circle, to avoid abuse by people with zero skill and the use of soulstones.

read it again....

"- Casting it anywhere but an Arcane Circle will give you a Focus with a level equal to number of casters - 1 (which is how it is now.)"

Surely you cant be mistaken that someone wont grief someone else because they want a focus but dont want to ask about it.

arcane circle can only be cast whilst standing on an arcane circle, a pentagram and/or an abbatoir, so no it defiantly can not happen! all thats changing is the amount of people needed to get a focus (to what was intended) not where you can cast one.

me thinks that Jeremy has a poor choice of words is all. anywhere meaning a pentagram or an abbatoir as opposed to an arcane circle.

seeeeee!

 

[D'Amavir]

it really is anti-community. you expect people to cross guild lines to be forced to do this. no guild has 5 spellweavers on at any given time in today's UO except maybe on Atlantic

Exactly. Some people actually limit their in game actions to what their characters would actually do. And running along with agroup of goodie goodies so that I can get in their casting circle doesn't make sense for my evil aligned spellweaver.

Then again, little thought is given to rp aspects in UO these days anyway. Its a dying part of the game, more so than even Fel in some cases.

 

[Ailish]

it really is anti-community. you expect people to cross guild lines to be forced to do this. no guild has 5 spellweavers on at any given time in today's UO except maybe on Atlantic

Um, as I stated before, I am on NAPA VALLEY. All 8 people with a total of 10 spellweaving chars (a couple of us have both red and blue sw'ers) are in the same guild/alliance. A PvP guild/alliance.

I will say there was a time that I was not in that guild, but I was still friends with all the people, and the fact that I wasnt in the guild meant nothing to them, or to me, and in the end the misunderstanding that had kept me from the guild was resolved.

I guess Napa just rocks. Or maybe, just maybe, our guild put some effort into its own community ....

 

[Harlequin]

Although it was never meant for a single player to get a lvl 1 focus, I am guessing this was the simplest way to implement the code when ML was released:

focus_level := number_of_spellweavers_in_circle

Actually, I was expecting the original fix to be just 1 extra line to exit the subroutine if there's only 1 spellweaver:

if number_of_spellweavers_in_circle < 2
display "You cannot cast a circle with only 1 spellweaver."
else
focus_level := number_of_spellweavers_in_circle
return

Now, instead of the cheap solution I expected, I'm glad they have looked deeper and put in extra effort into fixing/enhancing this.

The ability to get a lvl 4 focus in places like champ/doom pentagrams is like what you can do currently. And a lvl 4 focus is already pretty impressive. That's an extra 20% of leeway to start WoD'g the boss'.

If you can plan ahead and get a group together to cast a circle in heartwood or a public house, I think it's pretty fair that you should get the extra boost.

And if you are crazy enough to fork out 10k each (50k for 5 spellweavers), brave the prism gauntlet (electrified floors damage, acidic pools damage, cold eminating monster damage, hydra breath, plus the monsters), I believe it's also fair that you get an even bigger bonus. (even by using monster ignore/honor/ethereal to get past the mosnters, it's still a 50k gold sink for soemthing that will last temporarily).

I do have 1 question though - Jeremy, can you clarify what you meant by "Anywhere?". Coz I fully expect other players (or griefers) to run up beside me and "accidentally" hit their arcane circle macro...

 

[Bomb Bloke]

Back in the day when I was first training the skill, I started off by standing in a circle and spamming the spell over and over.

Eventually a wandering healer joined me. Hey presto, I was getting a more powerful focus.

I wonder if the same thing can be done with eg nature's furies.

Not much use for people with any real level of skill, of course, unless you have soul stones to play with.

 

[ultima online]

Although it was never meant for a single player to get a lvl 1 focus, I am guessing this was the simplest way to implement the code when ML was released:

focus_level := number_of_spellweavers_in_circle

Actually, I was expecting the original fix to be just 1 extra line to exit the subroutine if there's only 1 spellweaver:

if number_of_spellweavers_in_circle < 2
display "You cannot cast a circle with only 1 spellweaver."
else
focus_level := number_of_spellweavers_in_circle
return

Now, instead of the cheap solution I expected, I'm glad they have looked deeper and put in extra effort into fixing/enhancing this.

The ability to get a lvl 4 focus in places like champ/doom pentagrams is like what you can do currently. And a lvl 4 focus is already pretty impressive. That's an extra 20% of leeway to start WoD'g the boss'.

If you can plan ahead and get a group together to cast a circle in heartwood or a public house, I think it's pretty fair that you should get the extra boost.

And if you are crazy enough to fork out 10k each (50k for 5 spellweavers), brave the prism gauntlet (electrified floors damage, acidic pools damage, cold eminating monster damage, hydra breath, plus the monsters), I believe it's also fair that you get an even bigger bonus. (even by using monster ignore/honor/ethereal to get past the mosnters, it's still a 50k gold sink for soemthing that will last temporarily).

I do have 1 question though - Jeremy, can you clarify what you meant by "Anywhere?". Coz I fully expect other players (or griefers) to run up beside me and "accidentally" hit their arcane circle macro...

yes and read two posts up regarding the casting anywhere

 

[BartofCats]

Ultima-online.. I know what your saying about it CURRENTLY needing to be cast in an arcane circle... the note that Jeremy posted was to come into the new patch notes (hopefully today) with the new spellweaving changes. It would only be fair to read what shes saying and get a little clarification on this.

If its Jeremy's wording thats incorrect great.. if its the change thats going in with a little griefing to be expected after, well.. that doesnt sit well with me. Im sorry. All we are asking for is a little clarification on this. I know how it sits now, you dont have to remind me. I want to know how its going to sit after pub 55. If I am correct on how im reading it, then its a bad change.

 

[Lord Kynd]

Hey, maybe you all should try to get Jeremy and the others to add an arcane circle in Luna, and get all the count-watchers to stand in it? (just kidding)

But, seriously, A human can cast Arcane circle with JOAT (if they've done the quest) at 0 real skill, and one thing that can be done is to get 4 friends to pile onto a circle with a spellweaver, the weavers present all stone off their skill, have a SW-enabled 0-skill human cast Arcane Circle, and bingo - everyone gets a Level 5 focus (before the nerf, or after the fixes - level 4 currently). Then, all the weavers pull their skill back onto the character, and are set for 5-6 hours.

And, even a SW-enabled 0-skill human can cast some impressive Gift of renewals with a level 4 or 5 focus.

Given this, it would probably be in the best interest of the skill to kill the "within 20" requirement, as there are ways around it.

i have to disagree with killing the within 20 thing, i am GM spellweaving and it is nice to be able to get a focus with guildies (80-120 skill) who are still working there skill up and are at least 80 skill.
so far i haven't seen item's with spellweaving bonus's so at least people have 'real' skill.

now the human 'jack of all' thing could be nerfed tho, 5 people with 0 skill can get a 6 focus. that isn't right imo.

 

[Jeremy]

My wording was unclear - the locations you can cast the spell aren't changing. The pentagram or abbatoir are the "non-Arcane Circle" locations.

 

[o2bavr6]

My wording was unclear - the locations you can cast the spell aren't changing. The pentagram or abbatoir are the "non-Arcane Circle" locations.

Jeremy do you know if they will ever speed up the casting times for the SW spells?

Also will they decrease the time we have to wait to recast spells like gift of renewal?

Or will they at least increase the amount of time the spell lasts on a person after they cast it?

Etheral voyage could really use a fix. You cant cast it in a dungeon if other monsters are around, and if you cast it outside the dungeon, by the time you get in, it has worn off.

 

[Gildar]

Changes definitely sound fair... though I would still very much like it if the skill level of the player meant more, and the arcane focus level meant less.

 

[R Traveler]

- Casting it anywhere but an Arcane Circle will give you a Focus with a level equal to number of casters - 1 (which is how it is now.)

Nice grief. Someone had level 5 or 6 for example. You stand next to him and cast. He have level 2 (or 1) now.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

My wording was unclear - the locations you can cast the spell aren't changing. The pentagram or abbatoir are the "non-Arcane Circle" locations.

Can you explain the reasoning behind why there's a 6th circle in the first place and why we have to go to Prism of Light to get it?

I never understood that and I still don't. I guess it's nice as far as a roleplaying or storyline perspective but especially in PvP we live in a very practical game. It's sort of ludicrous to get together 5 people and all go down to PoL just to get your maximum ability. I think if you can manage to get 5 people together in the first place you should be able to get it at any circle.

Also, you need 5 people to go down to PoL instead of 4 right?

 

[Ailish]

That is the way it has ALWAYS been, drinkbeer. In order to get a level 6, it required 5 people. If you had 4 people, you get a level 5, 3 = level 4, etc, IN THE PRISM. With 5 people on any old arcane circle - say the one your GM puts in the guild house - you can get a level 5. That is how it always was. The only changes from the "old" way are that a single person can no longer get a level 1 (or level 2 in the prism), and now when you cast on an abbatoir or pentagram you get a -1 focus vs. number of people. (Which makes RP sense.

Over the last month or so we have suffered a nerf on the focus, but they are fixing it back to the old way, with two minor adjustments. Big deal.

 

[JC the Builder]

I was coming here to ask how they would prevent griefing or accidentally losing your focus by casting the spell, but it looks like several people have already raised the issue.

 

[Jeremy]

You only create a focus when standing in a pentagram, arcane circle, abbatoir, or one other thing that will be revealed shortly. I suppose you could lie in wait in one to grief people, but it seems like a lot of work to me.

 

[JC the Builder]

You only create a focus when standing in a pentagram, arcane circle, abbatoir, or one other thing that will be revealed shortly. I suppose you could lie in wait in one to grief people, but it seems like a lot of work to me.

You might think that, but when it comes to greifing it usually isn't.

 

[Jeremy]

I will confess to not actually having a spellweaver - is this different than before Pub 54, or is it an ongoing issue? I don't recall seeing it ever come up before.

 

[JC the Builder]

It isn't an issue now because you have to be in a certain location to cast. But now you announce that you can cast it anywhere. So it sounded like you can just walk up next to someone, cast Arcane Circle, and force them back down to a level 2 focus.

 

[Ailish]

No, Jeremy, people are just grasping at straws now. This is not different at all from what it was before. I never heard of anyone laying in wait on an altar or arcane circle just to see if any level 6 spellweaver would come along so they could bump their focus.

 

[Ailish]

It isn't an issue now because you have to be in a certain location to cast. But now you announce that you can cast it anywhere. So it sounded like you can just walk up next to someone, cast Arcane Circle, and force them back down to a level 2 focus.

FFS, how many times does she have to say her wording was bad and that by "anywhere" she meant VALID PLACES THAT ARE NOT AN ARCANE CIRCLE?? She specifically said that when she said "anywhere" she was referring to an abbatoir or pentagram.

Seems to me you are trying to intentionally twist her all up now ...

 

[JC the Builder]

Why didn't someone just say so? I read the first couple posts at the bottom. Since there is no longer a Dev search feature it isn't easy to keep track of all the developer posts.

 

[Sheridan]

It isn't an issue now because you have to be in a certain location to cast. But now you announce that you can cast it anywhere. So it sounded like you can just walk up next to someone, cast Arcane Circle, and force them back down to a level 2 focus.

She answered this above...

My wording was unclear - the locations you can cast the spell aren't changing. The pentagram or abbatoir are the "non-Arcane Circle" locations.

 

[Ailish]

She did say so ... that is the sad part. Also, you can go to the uo.stratics.com page and pull up specific dev and staff posts, you just can't pull them all up at once anymore.

You can also use the search feature at the top of the page, go advance, go to the right hand side and enter user name (in this case Jeremy_EA) (and it even gives you a cool little "matches" drop down as you add letters!) and search that way ....

Sorry to have snipped.

 

[Yalp]

So EA punishes single spellweavers and peeps who don't want to or are able to go into prism.

You can't get any mods for the skill and you're skill is punished... geez thx.. is it my birthday or something? Is there a note on my back? Kick me .. I'm a weaver!

Please tell me if one of your group is less than GM level but still within 20 skill points of the caster you are also punished with a -1 level! That would just be the best thing EVER!

 

[Sheridan]

Thanks, Ailish. As you said, it's quite easy to see specific developers' posts by going to http://uo.stratics.com - or, if you can't be bothered to do that, you can always see Jeremy's posts by saving this link to your Favorites: http://vboards.stratics.com/search.php?searchid=439861

 

[Sheridan]

So EA punishes single spellweavers and peeps who don't want to or are able to go into prism.

I don't see it as a nerf or punishment... The single spellweaver focus is something that was bugged and never meant to happen.

 

[Yalp]

I don't see it as a nerf or punishment... The single spellweaver focus is something that was bugged and never meant to happen.

When we get to the point where all skills need more than one player to work to their full potential, then I will agree with you. When Dexers need another dexer to get a full EOO.. then we can say SW is not behind the eightball.

 

[Sheridan]

But the whole purpose of the Spellweaver skill and focus bonuses is to encourage teamwork... you're arguing against the very nature and intent of the skill.

 

[Yalp]

But the whole purpose of the Spellweaver skill and focus bonuses is to encourage teamwork... you're arguing against the very nature and intent of the skill.

There's a big difference between intent of the developers and how the player base has adapted it to fit their needs. Patches which address the actual use of an in game element/skill etc. vs. EA's intended use of said in game element/skill, etc happen all day long.


I would be more in favor of the past and proposed nerfs to SW if they were to decrease the casting time, reduce the mana cost and increase the damage/effect.. it is not that powerful of a skill at best, certainly not one anyone uses as a primary offensive skill, so further crippling of the skill makes no sense.

Makes me wonder why they added a skill in the first place that someone at EA doesn't seem to like very much.

 

[Hildebrand]

Spellweaving could use some more usefulness. As it stands, ppl get it for WoD. The rest of the spells are MEH!
I do like SW and it has potential, but currently, it's just lacking. No umph. Then there's talk about nerfing WoD and bam, no one is a weaver. What a shame.