Large Guild Raids (and Ruins) Player-Run RP Event

[CroakerTnT]

lol, trammies...

 

[Nexus]

lol, trammies...

Thanks for proving my point....

 

[It Lives]

Just last month me and a few of my girlfriends spent days planning a huge bake sale next to the gate in Bucs Den & were so pissed when a group of reds came through and attacked us and broke our cookies.

LOL@ YOU Bucs? lol *it hurts* That's sarcasm I hope.

 

[Redxpanda]

No That isn't my point Yes it was an organized event...But Champ Spawns as I said fall under another heading they were designed with raiding in mind read over the announcements of the introduction of that system.

The House isn't allowed to be set Private that was unavoidable. It probably wasn't exclusive I wasn't involved with it but...in any type of gathering certain behavior is to be expected regardless of facet because otherwise it can quickly fall under Griefing depending on what takes place which isn't legal regardless of facet except under circumstances which it has been cleared such as luring in Fel....

Like I said I wasn't involved with this..but I'm only arguing it to point out this clear and simple fact. It's the Actions of the PvP community such as this which is destroying Fel for them and anyone else. They want more people they need to grow up and try to help encourage people there not disrupt and cause havoc for those trying to get a positive outlook on it. They can try talking to people without speaking Trash tell them what to expect in a civil manner. Until that happens Fel will remain what it is.

I agree with you completely about the PvP actions destroying the facet and the game itself but i knew this for quite some time. I'm not telling you it should have been planned better or you should have done this or that. I am simply letting you know (if you didn't already) that this is normal in fel and you should have expected no special treatment just because a role playing event was being held. The rules of common decency and courtesy have been sacrificed for free-for-all gameplay.

 

[Nexus]

I agree with you completely about the PvP actions destroying the facet and the game itself but i knew this for quite some time. I'm not telling you it should have been planned better or you should have done this or that. I am simply letting you know (if you didn't already) that this is normal in fel and you should have expected no special treatment just because a role playing event was being held. The rules of common decency and courtesy have been sacrificed for free-for-all gameplay.

I wasn't involved personally I've just read about it here and heard of similar things in the past. But I don't think that Free-4-All attitude many have should be allowed as it is now...No I don't want Fel all Carebared I want it to be somewhere people can go, and learn about the dangers and benefits of Fel without a group of jerks interrupting with the intention of doing nothing more than causing mayhem. At an organized event such as this is simply nothing more than Griefing...Some forms of what would be considered griefing in Trammel are allowed in Fel it's true Luring is an example...but Not all..I'm tired of being in Fel and hearing people make sexually explicit remarks concerning some person on a Mule's mother or was it someone's mother and a mule....It's absurd, childish and honestly has no place in not only UO but any over the counter MMORPG that doesn't have a M rating. I'm tired of hearing the PvPers whine about no life in Fel when it's their own fault because of actions like those listed above...especially when viewed in a certian perspective they are ROS violations.

Why do they do it? Because right now there isn't the support staff to keep tabs on things is my theory. When and If they bring back counselors and what not I hope to see a change to this I'd like to see some decency restored to Felucca. It's perfectly fine to PvP without talking Trash constantly or at least to that extent. It's childish, and immature and since the average age of the UO player base is probably around 30 based on the people I know there is no excuse for this type of conduct. If the PvP community wants people in Fel as badly as they claim they would learn some restraint, and actually try to help players become involved in PvP to start with...or at the least after slaughtering someone giving them a rez and chatting with them a bit about this and that and maybe giving a little advice.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

My reaction to this is shock and disbelief....That anyone would think anything else would happen.

Yes it's sad that this would happen. Even sadder that people would defend it.

But why is anyone surprised?

-Galen's player

 

[Nexus]

My reaction to this is shock and disbelief....That anyone would think anything else would happen.

Yes it's sad that this would happen. Even sadder that people would defend it.

But why is anyone surprised?

-Galen's player

I'm not shocked it happened, I'm just remembering how the community was 10 years ago vs now and surprised the UO has stooped so low as to be filled with kiddies that think disrupting something that may work in their interest long term is a good idea....That trash talk is a way of life, and godly attitudes are rampant. Something needs to happen or they might as well close Fel down all together and get rid of PvP.

 

[AesSedai]

- Galen Knighthawke,
I don't think too many people were surprised it happened..
Felucca is as Feluccans do.
That's just the way it has been.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

This whole thread is one big joke. First off, the OP wasn't even part of this*event*. Second, all information gathered by the OP was all second hand. Third, the OP had no intent of creating conversation...but was rather a poor attempt at a public flame. (This is actually the second time the OP has used similar scheme in an attempt to flame)

@ Sheridan...I realize you are not familiar with the matter but I ask that you close this thread as there is no *honest* discussion here. If you cant see through the BS I suggest a strong cup of *wake the f*ck up*.

@ Amanita...grow up and move on. This behavior is borderline nuts. Quit posting about *unamed* guilds you have been removed from for doing some pretty rotten *unknown* things. Its been a month now since your removal from the *unknown guild*, is there any end to this ******** behavior (rhetorical)? (BTW...save the "what are you talking about" crap for someone else.)

 

[Sheridan]

@ Sheridan...I realize you are not familiar with the matter but I ask that you close this thread as there is no *honest* discussion here. If you cant see through the BS I suggest a strong cup of *wake the f*ck up*.

Thanks for the input, but I'm pretty clear on what does and does not need to be locked. If I need any help in the future, I'll know for sure who to call on for backup, bub. :bowdown:

At any rate, the thread will remain open for the time being, despite your obviously deeply felt concern. As you can see, I'm quite awake.

 

[Wenchkin]

I'm not shocked it happened, I'm just remembering how the community was 10 years ago vs now and surprised the UO has stooped so low as to be filled with kiddies that think disrupting something that may work in their interest long term is a good idea....That trash talk is a way of life, and godly attitudes are rampant. Something needs to happen or they might as well close Fel down all together and get rid of PvP.

And why couldn't someone say "I ban thee/remove thyself" and target those players?

Stop talking to the PvP community as the "them" vs your "us" because if you're in Fel there is no "them" when it comes to other Fel players. YOU have to get along with them - 2 way process. That means losing the anti-Fel player attitude for starters. If you can't think of methods for dealing with raiders, you shouldn't be in Fel. It has nothing to do with PvP attitudes but the expectation that they'll just leave you alone. You need to make them.

Wenchy

 

[Nexus]

And why couldn't someone say "I ban thee/remove thyself" and target those players?

Stop talking to the PvP community as the "them" vs your "us" because if you're in Fel there is no "them" when it comes to other Fel players. YOU have to get along with them - 2 way process. That means losing the anti-Fel player attitude for starters. If you can't think of methods for dealing with raiders, you shouldn't be in Fel. It has nothing to do with PvP attitudes but the expectation that they'll just leave you alone. You need to make them.

Wenchy

Still your blind to my views. I don't have an anti-fel attitude, what I do have is an anti-jerk attitude there's a difference and that's part of what is wrong with Fel is to many people have blurred or lost the vision to see that line, you associate one with the other you expect the conduct you see everyday instead of saying wow he crossed the line between what's acceptable by EA's rules and what's not, what's acceptable to say to another living breathing person and what's not. I'm not saying everyone should be polite and proper and go have a UO picnic when they meet in Fel, but player especially those that whine and complain about the current status of Fel need to step up and accept that the attitudes of the Fel player base is largely responsible for that complaint and show a little restraint and a little bit more civility. Do I want Fel turned into Care Bear land...No. Do I want it to be a place people can accept the Risk element of Fel and not be driven away because of the actions of a large part of those that keep crying they want them to come there....Yes. A place where loosing a PvP fight results in verbal harrassment...No..some smack talk is fine but I see a lot that clearly crosses the line. A place where community is accepted and respected...Yes.

I've already said it once if the Player Community of a Shard including the PvPer's don't embrace the rest of the community willingly they might as well shut Fel down because it won't increase in population.

I does not have to be one way or the other...it can be something in moderation, it used to be...even after Trammel opened for a while it was. People need to focus more on the community and less on their personal pride and ego and maybe just maybe they can start working on getting what they oh so desperately whine for. Personally if someone said some of the things I see at Yew Gate on Chessy said to me in person I'd pick up the nearest sturdy object and proceed to re-educate some folks on manners.

 

[AesSedai]

- I'm glad you chose to update your post because it made my reply much shorter.

Felucca is as Feluccans do.

There were not any EA rules broken due to some Feluccans deciding they wanted to PvP other Feluccans (even if, even though, it disrupted an event).

I'm with you in that I wish more Feluccans would consider the reactions to some of their actions; but it ain't happening. Granted, there are plenty of honorable PvPers in Felucca as well.

 

[Vyrquenox]

The op sounds more interested in attacking some random guild than really looking for solution(s).

not everyone is as fair about things as leurnid hand. too bad he's gone. sorry I can't actually mention the person I am replying too, but whomever it was just threw a beach ball at a barn and missed. odd when (people you can't mention) troll a reasonable statement.

oh and if someone (not to be mentioned) gets on me for mentioning leurnid as some kind of rule violation it won't be me who discusses it further.

 

[Wenchkin]

Still your blind to my views. I don't have an anti-fel attitude, what I do have is an anti-jerk attitude there's a difference and that's part of what is wrong with Fel is to many people have blurred or lost the vision to see that line, you associate one with the other you expect the conduct you see everyday instead of saying wow he crossed the line between what's acceptable by EA's rules and what's not, what's acceptable to say to another living breathing person and what's not.

Blind to your views? Hardly. I've heard virtually the same arguements for years, but you forget that I have done and do my bit to improve community. I know the players that interact with me better than you do. If they were that bad, I wouldn't play UO anymore, trust me

By making sweeping statements about Fel players, you are developing an anti-fel attitude. Sorry to say that, but it just sounds very like what I hear from folks who say "I won't go to Fel because..." then reel off all these generalised statements that Fel players are more evil. Actually, they're not all that way and you know it. Bad attitudes are all over UO, so you're not avoiding it in Tram, there are just tighter rules there to prevent the same things happening. That is the only difference. These players don't stay 100% in Fel.

You're looking back on the past as if it was a lot easier then. It wasn't. I've RP'd since before Tram opened up and you had far more passing trouble, everyone was contained in that one facet, and I had to prune my ban list daily to ensure we always had enough free slots. And we were raided less than the towns around us. Nowadays if I see a red I'll be very unlucky for him to attack, mostly it's "thanks for stocking vendors here" which I NEVER got before. Please, put the rose tinted specs away, there are far less players in Fel so you should be able to handle trouble much more easily.

I'm not saying everyone should be polite and proper and go have a UO picnic when they meet in Fel, but player especially those that whine and complain about the current status of Fel need to step up and accept that the attitudes of the Fel player base is largely responsible for that complaint and show a little restraint and a little bit more civility.

I'm sorry, but as I've said before the problems of Fel don't just come from Fel players. No matter how nice players are to each other, sooner or later Fel visitors will say "I need to buy stuff, I need to get this artie or let's go do Dreadhorn, Doom" etc and off they go! I love Fel as my home but I'm often away from it to get access to that content. Nothing is stopping EA from dropping random overland spawns into Fel, or dropping event content into Fel as well as Tram. I've done my bit creating a safe haven for players and will continue to do so, but Fel players aren't the only influences.

I've already said it once if the Player Community of a Shard including the PvPer's don't embrace the rest of the community willingly they might as well shut Fel down because it won't increase in population.

I hate to break it to you, but while this game does still have a community, just look around at the threads here and you'll see the state it's in. If someone suggests that people should be interacting with each other just to get a pet res'd they'll get vegetables thrown at them. The community is fragmented and many players don't even accept that there is one. You'll need to build the community feeling back up before you can expect anything of it.

People need to focus more on the community and less on their personal pride and ego and maybe just maybe they can start working on getting what they oh so desperately whine for. Personally if someone said some of the things I see at Yew Gate on Chessy said to me in person I'd pick up the nearest sturdy object and proceed to re-educate some folks on manners.

I've done my bit, I'll continue to do so, as will many others. But as we do our bit, EA need to accept that there should be more to Fel than champs and double resources. Otherwise what is there for the Fel community to encourage visitors with? Not everyone wants to sit in a tavern or player-run event. Now if I could create overland spawns, then you betcha I'd run events, lots of us would. We don't have EMs even now, so we have to ask EA to remember us. There are whiny bad attitude players in Tram who still get content, so that doesn't justify neglecting Fel at all.

Wenchy

 

[Mina_Lino]

Welcome to fel...where you WILL be ganked and resskilled.

There's no question about that...aspecialy if you go there with rp-ers.


There's very little to no space for rp-ers in fel.

I think we all saw what happend to those rp-ers on Europa...they had a town in fel ,and it was raided by people who could not stand rp-ers...over and over again...till the rp-ers packed their business and moved to the farmer fields near skara.


-Mina-

 

[Connor_Graham]

Thanks for proving my point....

What point? I AM a Trammie, and you're making the rest of us look bad.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I'm not shocked it happened, I'm just remembering how the community was 10 years ago vs now and surprised the UO has stooped so low as to be filled with kiddies that think disrupting something that may work in their interest long term is a good idea....That trash talk is a way of life, and godly attitudes are rampant. Something needs to happen or they might as well close Fel down all together and get rid of PvP.

That's just it.

9 to 10 years ago (I wasn't here for the launch, I wasn't here for the original 11 years ago), the same thing would have happened, and did happen.

-Galen's player

 

[Radun]

Simply going to Fel doesn't toss all the rules on griefing and interfering with the game play of others through use of game mechanics out the window

It does so. Even in events, going to fel means accepting the risk of being killed non-consensually. It is accepted as a normal game mechanic.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Thanks for the input, but I'm pretty clear on what does and does not need to be locked. If I need any help in the future, I'll know for sure who to call on for backup, bub. :bowdown:

At any rate, the thread will remain open for the time being, despite your obviously deeply felt concern. As you can see, I'm quite awake.

Awake? Perhaps...
Alert? Mebbe...
Aware? EL OH EL?

feel free to go about what you were doing, it really isnt me looking over your shoulder shaking my head. if it were me im almost positive some colorful language would be included.

Move along...nothing to see here. No really...nothing at all.

 

[Locker]

My Opinion...if you get caught disrupting an event that's not in one of the a fore mentioned areas, or activities it should be a 72 hour minimum suspension. I might teach a few people self control and if they get pissed and cancel their subs then well they aren't the right type of people for an interactive community anyways.

Well first I find your interpretation of the rules highly suspect since your framing of things is not enforced, at all.

Secondly, about the above quote... you really think the scarce staff should be wasting their time monitoring RP events in Fel to make sure no one disrupts the little RPs games? Are you serious? Personally my enjoyment comes (partially) from smoking folks who venture into PvP land (and also getting smoked a bunch).

Why should someone's little fantasy take priority over someone who's working entirely within the game mechanics? What, then, stops someone from screaming every time they die that they were RPing a stop sign and someone interrupted there fun?

I have an idea, how about you work within the game mechanics and make some effort to have a successful event rather than plopping down in the middle of PvP land and demand everyone change to suit you.

I've forgotten nothing, it's not that they attacked it was the reasoning and outcome that matters. The Raid was done with the sole intent of disrupting and creating mayhem for the participants of the event and to get giggles and BS bragging rights for the raider. That is the breech of the rules they did it with the intent of causing grief to an organized event. That's the ROS violation, it's the same as when that fool was spamming at the WRR house on Lake Superior the other day, he got a suspension for it for a violation of the same rule....

How arrogant is this statement? You actually expect anyone to believe that you hold the key to everyone's personal motivations. That YOU know why people do what they do and how they should be punished is laughable.

You are advocating thought police, freaky.

Peace,

Locker

 

[GreedyBytch]

These are two very valid points. But the event called for some elements of the Fel environment and landscape, as it was a PvP-centered event.

I just wish there had been a better system in place, as a large horde of marauding Player Killers put an end to the event before it could even start.

I agree that Tram is more conducive to the Role-Playing crowd, but it's unfortunate that Fel has denigrated into such a cesspool of drobbing and trash-talking.

This made me giggle. Such as? It was in a house, what landscape are you talking about? A water view?

Seems this player is more upset with the guild than he is with the raid. Awwww... a cesspool of drobbing and trash-talking. LOL.. are you kidding me right now?

 

[Draken-Korin]

Not sure if I am still playing a MASSIVE Multi online playing game I started playing ten years ago anymore. *sighs*

I am certainly no fan of the current pvp system, in fact i think its aweful. That being said be it real life or Sosaria peoples actions dont change a hell of alot because years pass us by.

MANY moons ago my guild had an "event" (one I would just assume forget *laughs* as to the reason of it but not the fun that was had that day) at a lovely spot near Yew falls, Im sure many know the spot I speak of.

Much time was spent planning and getting everything together, people dressed in well tailored garments etc etc all that crap. Suddenly we discover we werent the only ones "planning":

WHEN A GATE OPENS AND OUT POURS A GROUP OF PEOPLE (SOME REDS) ATTACKING US OMG. OH THE HORROR, THE HUMANITY *ROLLS EYES*

What a damn rush, I so enjoyed those days, was a nice battle we eventually lost, great fun. BUT there were no tears, no complaining, just plain fighting and working as a team (on both sides). Our party moved to the roof of my tower where the "event" was finished. Having just as good of a time, if not better, for the battle that had just occured.

Perhaps those fun times were had because we did not need to spend MILLIONS in gold to have a good time, no need to outfit ourselves with armor (as friggen mages good god *rolls eyes*), warriors carried GM CRAFTED weapons easily replaced if lost/stolen, and regs were a recall away to replace or you bummed some off a friend.

Bottom line is if you are not prepared to have a fight win, lose, or draw, do not go to FEL. All that goes along with fel now a days (insurance, high priced items, no stat loss for reds, I could go on and on) makes my stomach turn as I lived thru the days when it was a time that community thrived and people depended on one another, for "evil" deeds just as readily as the "heroic" ones.

Blame the layout of the game as it current stands, not the people. Good, bad or ugly the amount of DIFFERENT groups of people that played this game, in a simple setting, is what made it great. The only glaring change over the years is this once vibrant land of Sosaria, has morphed from a simple world with the focus on the people and its community for its enjoyment to a world where hording items and playing as a social misfit is an easily attainable, and desirable, goal.

Draken-Korin
GM & Founder of TWT

 

[Anjeel]

Or the Red Guilds could wake up and realize that blessed area usually are in Player towns....Player Towns that encourage RP are good for Fel...Good for Fel = more people in Fel resulting in more targets outside these areas. What it comes down to is a lack of sense of community in the Red Zerg guilds who really don't care about anyone or anything beyond racking up Counts, and raiding spawns to put a choke hold on a shards economy and get tons of gold in the process. I could care less about them raiding spawns to be honest but....but...they should at least have the decency to step back and say...Hey this is a big event for the shards community lets not be complete jerks and screw it up for people....Besides which....

Rules of Conduct: 24) You will not do anything else that interferes with the ability of other Ultima Online users to enjoy playing the game in accordance with its rules, or that increases the expense or difficulty of Electronic Arts in maintaining the Ultima Online Service for the enjoyment of all its users.

It doesn't say Trammel or Fel on there...yeah Fel is the PvP facet, but purposely disrupting a player hosted event goes a bit beyond just PvP..if it had been a EM event of old all the Reds that raided would have found themselves quite cozy in a jail cell...1 Page increase the difficulty of EA to maintain the game as it means someone has to work...

You can't seriously be trying to bring the RoC in to say it was bad for players to kill other players in Fel. If you want to go that far you could say raiding spawns is a violation of the RoC. Hell, killing any player anywhere in Fel could constitute a violation.....

Try another angle because this one is full of fail.

 

[Wenchkin]

Welcome to fel...where you WILL be ganked and resskilled.

There's no question about that...aspecialy if you go there with rp-ers.


There's very little to no space for rp-ers in fel.

I think we all saw what happend to those rp-ers on Europa...they had a town in fel ,and it was raided by people who could not stand rp-ers...over and over again...till the rp-ers packed their business and moved to the farmer fields near skara.


-Mina-

The RPers on Europa had more than 1 Fel town and we didn't all move to Tram I may have precious little time to really do stuff with Dreamstone, but it's as alive as ever and we have much more support from PvPers than ever before. When I do spend a few hours around town, it's rare someone doesn't pass by.

Spiritwood's move was pretty inevitable, they had trouble getting everyone connected with the town to agree an anti-griefer policy and a lot of players just didn't like PvP at all. A lot of players were prepared to fight (my guilds included) but that wasn't the way Spiritwood folks wanted to do things, which I respect 100%. They moved to Tram, but I'd have been more surprised if they'd stayed given how their members were increasingly Tram based.

Europa has run events in Fel very successfully in the past few years, from open harrowers to the trade caravans. I haven't been able to attend the caravans, but the harrowers had a lot of RPers there and we actually had a lot of banter with an orc guild, Covians and members of numerous other RP guilds. RP opportunites are still in Fel and on Europa I think we have some incredibly nice PvPers. Some idiots, sure, but I've sat at my shop and seen the reds come and shop quietly, then the blue from WBB comes in and starts picking fights himself. Not all fights are started by Fel guys

Wenchy

 

[FongofATL]

I love how people continue to discuss this...I PLANNED THE EVENT! why are the rest of you still bickering, whinning and qouting the OP who isn't even a part of my guild and chances are isn't part of the RP community I interact with. No one from MTC cares, we know how fel works, were a part of factions. The people from ARPC don't care as much as all of you peeps, so if were a bunch of drama*****s, why is stratics the forum thats blowing up? The people involved could care less, the OP had nothing at all to do with any of this except to post a topic to bash JC (no matter how much I dislike him, thats what this thread was intended to do, it was made to bash JC and H** )

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Surely you expected no less....

The average PKer is immature and has no self control nor do they think of consequences. They only want to kill and loot people to feel better about themselves. A dev could be there building something that benefits them and someone would try to attack em. Its no wonder Fel has become UO's anus.

Lmao

If you want a very good look at Uo's anus just head over to Brit bank Trammel on any shard.
'Respectable' trammies spamming/lagging the entire bank screen 24/7.
'Respectable' trammies making a deal for one price then dropping it 8 seconds later as you are getting the checks because someone else just offered them 25k more.
It gets even worse when you leave the bank and hunt in Trammel.
'Respectable' trammies turn into the biggest punk trashtalkers in all of Uo when it comes to hunting frigging monsters lol. Stealing kills and taking over solitary hunting spots all the while claiming total immunity because its carebear land.

What is your choice when a 'respectable' trammie invades a hunting spot that you have been clearing out and working for 20 minutes? Call a Gm? Thats a laugh. What do you do when he then starts leading spawn onto you for grief purposes?(happens all day long all over Tram folks) Call a Gm? Good luck. I think that almost 100% of Uo's vet players will agree that a player stealing kills and leading spawn is trash yet what can you do about it in Tram? Nothing that is effective. In Fel you have options, in Tram you have none.
I used to love to take a break from pvp and do a bit of hunting in Tram but not these days. Its a cesspool over there now.

I will point out one more fact and then bow out of this cesspool of a post(a friggin post started by a person that is upset because her pvp-centric event was raided by pvpers and caused pvp to happen? Ya, it really sounds like she has a legit complaint lol)

Bottom line is that 24/7 you stand a much better chance of getting griefed in Trammel then you do in Felucca. But since 90% of people on these boards dont really understand the definition of the word 'grief' I doubt that they will understand this statement

Peace out

 

[Anjeel]

The Rule doesn't designate facet it applies everywhere. Not to many years ago this wouldn't have happened it would have been met with people getting suspended. What has happened is most of you have gone off on this trip that you can do what ever you want in Fel with no consequence. That is a large part of what is wrong with Fel people have no regards for anything there anymore.

look there was no violation as the raiders attacked within the rules of Ultima Online. While I wouldn't doubt some ban happy gm would do just as you asked, it goes COMPLETELY against the spirit of Fel. Get a body guard, learn to fight, or be fodder.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

The people involved could care less, the OP had nothing at all to do with any of this except to post a topic to bash JC (no matter how much I dislike him, thats what this thread was intended to do, it was made to bash JC and H** )

Nearly all the OP's posts have been along those lines. It's pretty transparent. But no one cares about the "unnamed guild" or the "victims", this turned into a "concensul PvP"/"Trammies vs Fels" debate long ago. Let people have their fun.