Large Guild Raids (and Ruins) Player-Run RP Event

[Vyrquenox]

i suppose the stubborn inability to alter the minds of someone could be explained with a shorter example. Queen Mum of sonoma held an event in fel once, because everyone was asking her too, and it got destroyed. As an explanation, she was told she should have expected it because it was fel. This is a good explanation from a third party on wise ways to act, but the answer didn't come from a third party but the one responsible for destroying it. You see, a snake doesn't know why it is despicable and assumes what it does is normal. What she was upset about was the lack of a response to her saying "But I thought you were human beings, not monsters."

don't hold events in Fel. There is no control over the propensity of wolves to sate hunger, and they will not understand why you are upset with them by saying you thought they were just puppy dogs you wanted to feed.

 

[Nexus]

i suppose the stubborn inability to alter the minds of someone could be explained with a shorter example. Queen Mum of sonoma held an event in fel once, because everyone was asking her too, and it got destroyed. As an explanation, she was told she should have expected it because it was fel. This is a good explanation from a third party on wise ways to act, but the answer didn't come from a third party but the one responsible for destroying it. You see, a snake doesn't know why it is despicable and assumes what it does is normal. What she was upset about was the lack of a response to her saying "But I thought you were human beings, not monsters."

don't hold events in Fel. There is no control over the propensity of wolves to sate hunger, and they will not understand why you are upset with them by saying you thought they were just puppy dogs you wanted to feed.

And that's why Wolves were almost hunted into extinction. Just like how we hear about every nerf to PvP and every complaint about no one in Fel. They are ultimately bringing down their own play style by not showing some sense of judgment and restraint.

 

[D'Amavir]

i suppose the stubborn inability to alter the minds of someone could be explained with a shorter example. Queen Mum of sonoma held an event in fel once, because everyone was asking her too, and it got destroyed. As an explanation, she was told she should have expected it because it was fel. This is a good explanation from a third party on wise ways to act, but the answer didn't come from a third party but the one responsible for destroying it. You see, a snake doesn't know why it is despicable and assumes what it does is normal. What she was upset about was the lack of a response to her saying "But I thought you were human beings, not monsters."

don't hold events in Fel. There is no control over the propensity of wolves to sate hunger, and they will not understand why you are upset with them by saying you thought they were just puppy dogs you wanted to feed.

Actually, I think that most of the people that 'grief' others, in this game or where ever, know exactly what they are and what they are doing. They just think its cool. They go out of their way to cause trouble for other people, it doesn't just happen. They know good and well that they are upsetting people by their actions and they get pleasure from that.

I get what you are saying though. You can't expect people like that to understand anything like compassion or respect. They lack the maturity for those types of feelings. I don't care if the person is 15 or 50, they are immature. The same can be said for those in real life that look for fights. They are stuck, mentally and emotionally, at a much lower age than what their real age might be. The internet is just a haven for people like that. The anonimoty of the net and the ability to 'speak' with others without having to face them afterwards in real life. I am sure that most of these 'pvp thugs' would cower in the face of a real person.

However, that is not to say that everyone that pk's or pvp's is a thug or is immature. I hold that there are major differences between pk'ing and griefing. Killing someone in Fel that is in a dungeon hunting for items or scrolls or whatever, isn't necessarily griefing. It may be annoying for the person being killed, but its not really griefing. Killing someone in Fel that is in a player run town rp'ing during a planned rp event, however, is. The difference may not be apparent to some. But, in my mind at least, it is.

 

[Vyrquenox]

Actually, I think that most of the people that 'grief' others, in this game or where ever, know exactly what they are and what they are doing. They just think its cool. They go out of their way to cause trouble for other people, it doesn't just happen. They know good and well that they are upsetting people by their actions and they get pleasure from that.

I get what you are saying though. You can't expect people like that to understand anything like compassion or respect. They lack the maturity for those types of feelings. I don't care if the person is 15 or 50, they are immature. The same can be said for those in real life that look for fights. They are stuck, mentally and emotionally, at a much lower age than what their real age might be. The internet is just a haven for people like that. The anonimoty of the net and the ability to 'speak' with others without having to face them afterwards in real life. I am sure that most of these 'pvp thugs' would cower in the face of a real person.

However, that is not to say that everyone that pk's or pvp's is a thug or is immature. I hold that there are major differences between pk'ing and griefing. Killing someone in Fel that is in a dungeon hunting for items or scrolls or whatever, isn't necessarily griefing. It may be annoying for the person being killed, but its not really griefing. Killing someone in Fel that is in a player run town rp'ing during a planned rp event, however, is. The difference may not be apparent to some. But, in my mind at least, it is.

and thus i have done what I intended to do, and communicate to you whom I was trying to reassure, that the danger you find yourself in is in fact not a failure of yours, but a failure of others to be as good as you want them to be.

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

I`m going to hafta post a common DAoC phrase....


OH NO!!! You got rolled in a PvP zone!

Its no wonder Gm`s are hard to get a hold of when they hafta answer to issues of common sense.

As usual EA drops the ball. WRR can't run an event in Trammel and the GM's can't even protect the sanctity of an old player run town in Felucca.

COMPLETE DISASTER FROM THE CS TEAM AS USUAL

Yet another well though out post from the anti UO squad.Blamming EA for banning someone that broke ToS....Brilliant. Blamming EA for not protecting Trammies in a FEL player town....... equally brilliant.

As far as I can see,its not EA`s fault for a players mistakes.

 

[D'Amavir]

and thus i have done what I intended to do, and communicate to you whom I was trying to reassure, that the danger you find yourself in is in fact not a failure of yours, but a failure of others to be as good as you want them to be.

Don't recall saying anywhere that I felt the actions of others was a failure of mine. I have learned long ago, before the age of Trammel,that some people just enjoy causing grief to others. Its not really how good I want them to be that they fail at, its more of a failure to be a productive, worthwhile member of society. Personally, people like that don't really impact me much. I would like to see more emphasis placed on clearing the garbage from the game by having rules in place that make true griefing illegal and bannable. But I feel that such rules would be too easily manipulated for grief itself and that they would be too hard to enforce.

Pk'ing itself is easily managed. No one in this game can be legally pk'd unless they choose to join a guildwar, factions or travel to Fel. So that can easily be avoided. What is not easy to avoid are the other forms of griefing that happen daily. The ignore function, house banning and guildmaster controls go a long way towards cutting down the impact of those actions however, but not completely. I could give examples but this isn't the place for that.

 

[Vyrquenox]

and thus i have done what I intended to do, and communicate to you whom I was trying to reassure, that the danger you find yourself in is in fact not a failure of yours, but a failure of others to be as good as you want them to be.

Don't recall saying anywhere that I felt the actions of others was a failure of mine. I have learned long ago, before the age of Trammel,that some people just enjoy causing grief to others. Its not really how good I want them to be that they fail at, its more of a failure to be a productive, worthwhile member of society. Personally, people like that don't really impact me much. I would like to see more emphasis placed on clearing the garbage from the game by having rules in place that make true griefing illegal and bannable. But I feel that such rules would be too easily manipulated for grief itself and that they would be too hard to enforce.

Pk'ing itself is easily managed. No one in this game can be legally pk'd unless they choose to join a guildwar, factions or travel to Fel. So that can easily be avoided. What is not easy to avoid are the other forms of griefing that happen daily. The ignore function, house banning and guildmaster controls go a long way towards cutting down the impact of those actions however, but not completely. I could give examples but this isn't the place for that.

perhaps I should point at myself and say "I saw you say something on a thread the nature of in the past I have seen become ugly and unanswered well and felt you asked the question in good sense and with good intentions, and what I did was jump in there to make you didn't get a one sided flamewar on you." I know well what you speak of too. Wasn't suggesting you didn't, just sticking up for you.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

The op sounds more interested in attacking some random guild than really looking for solution(s).

 

[hawkeye_pike]

It reminds me of the Early Days when there was no Trammel. Murderers would regularly try to spoil events, and the players took measures to fend them off.

If you are in Felucca, you should be aware of such threats.
If you don't like being attacked, hold the events in Trammel.

(I am wondering why people keep telling me that Trammel was the biggest mistake in UO, and yet some are complaining about the dangers of Felucca.)

 

[Beefybone]

Erm, just a note here... No one from the actual Atlantic RP community has posted in this thread yet I believe, and I don't believe the OP is even in the Atlantic RP community, so I'm confused as to why this issue was brought to the Uhall by someone not affiliated with either the Atlantic RP community or the raiding guild.

Uh oh, did someone talk about RP on Atlantic without getting an "Official RP Community" badge from your little pack of petty despots first? Crap like this is why RP sucks in UO anymore. Whenever there's more than five roleplayers on a shard, two of them have to declare themselves the Kings of Roleplay and tell the other three they're not in "The Community".

 

[Halister Marner]

Uh oh, did someone talk about RP on Atlantic without getting an "Official RP Community" badge from your little pack of petty despots first? Crap like this is why RP sucks in UO anymore. Whenever there's more than five roleplayers on a shard, two of them have to declare themselves the Kings of Roleplay and tell the other three they're not in "The Community".

The RP'ers on Atlantic have an organized community in place, and we stick together and come to consensus on situations that involve us as a community. There's no crazy hierarchy, and the guildmasters of every single guild vote on decisions that involve the community as a whole, everyone has a voice, however situations that represent the community as a whole need to be run by the GM's, random community members posting on behalf of the RP community doesn't go over well, especially if their ideas are contrary to what everyone thinks.

If you need any clarifications, feel free to PM me and I'll clear any misconceptions you seem to have about Atlantic's roleplayers, since it seems you've either had a bad experience with a fringe group, or you feel the need to insult a group of honest players because of misconceptions or preconceived notions.

 

[D'Amavir]

Uh oh, did someone talk about RP on Atlantic without getting an "Official RP Community" badge from your little pack of petty despots first? Crap like this is why RP sucks in UO anymore. Whenever there's more than five roleplayers on a shard, two of them have to declare themselves the Kings of Roleplay and tell the other three they're not in "The Community".

As the official King of Stratics, all others are pretenders to the throne, I have to tell you that you are sooooo not allowed to talk like that. Since you aren't considered part of the official Stratics United Society Kingdom, you have to get a special grant in order to post anything that will be considered 'real'. All SUCK grants are given by the official Stratics treasurer *changes crown to the official Stratics treasurer hat* in exchange for a small sum of 1million gold, payable on Catskills only.

I keed!

 

[Corrupted Goblin]

These are two very valid points. But the event called for some elements of the Fel environment and landscape, as it was a PvP-centered event.

QUOTE]


Im sorry are you complaining because you were raided by PLAYERS during a Player Versus Player Event? haha too funny. Lock down your house next time and grant people access to enter. Sounds like whoever organized this event did a terrible job.

 

[Mordocuo]

A rather large, reputable guild attacked (and ruined) a player-run, role playing event on Saturday night on the Atlantic shard. This event had been planned for weeks in advance and most active community members were aware of the event. The response provided from a council member of the guild was:

"...We were not told about it. The house was public. You could walk right inside and kill anyone. There was so many things the people organizing the tournament could have done to prevent this."

The person then goes on to state that the guild should have been "made aware" of the situation and that the event organizers should have sought the prior approval of the guild in advance.

This was a hard-blow dealt to the dedicated role-players of Atlantic and a sad day for the game in general. What ideas can we think of for EA to foster a more friendly environment for role-players? Perhaps RP only shards?

Let's use this tragic event to open up a discussion for what can be done to allow for the role-playing niche within UO.

This is an example that proves Felucca is not about the PVP it is about having victims.

Have the event in Trammel-------then people have to leave current guilds and factions---poor option.

I am not surprised by the results as Feluccians take every opportunity to show the world what they are all about. Yet they wonder why more people don't come to their facet and why EA/Mythic does not add more to thier ruleset.

These actions speak volumes about why they don't add more to that ruleset.

 

[Landicine]

OSI owned blessed public houses in Felucca should be protected by GM's.

End of story.

As usual EA drops the ball. WRR can't run an event in Trammel and the GM's can't even protect the sanctity of an old player run town in Felucca.

COMPLETE DISASTER FROM THE CS TEAM AS USUAL

Most of the old player run towns in Felucca are dead. I was once part of one on LS, but it slowly dwindled after Trammel. Of course, the former player pking a few members he didn't like probably helped too.

I stopped running most events in Felucca. It isn't worth the extra hastle.

 

[JC the Builder]

When is this thread going to be locked? The commotion happened and was unfortunate. It seems everyone involved has moved past it and don't see it as such a big deal. It is just the same people who make a big issue over anything a certain guild on Atlantic does causing trouble. They even cross-posted this on both UHall and Atlantic forum.

 

[Redxpanda]

Surely you expected no less....

The average PKer is immature and has no self control nor do they think of consequences. They only want to kill and loot people to feel better about themselves. A dev could be there building something that benefits them and someone would try to attack em. Its no wonder Fel has become UO's anus.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

When is this thread going to be locked? The commotion happened and was unfortunate. It seems everyone involved has moved past it and don't see it as such a big deal. It is just the same people who make a big issue over anything a certain guild on Atlantic does causing trouble. They even cross-posted this on both UHall and Atlantic forum.

Why does this thread need to be locked? It's an important discussion about the nature of Fel-based player-run events.

Sorry, JC, but you don't get to chose which threads should be locked here. These aren't your forums to moderate.

Can you perhaps lend anything useful to the discussion? As stated in a prior post, we'd love to hear your perspective on this matter.

 

[JC the Builder]

The nature of Felucca events is you can't leave your house wide open for attack. Either have some doors for a public house or make it private and access people. Don't leave giant arch-ways all over for people to cast fields and nature's fury inside.

Also when you have a guild willing to work with others, such as the one that ended up crashing unintentionally, it would be a good idea to contact them and make sure they won't disrupt it. You could even try to get them to come protect if some people come to disrupt.

You simply can't walk into Felucca and expect people not to attack you.

 

[FongofATL]

Well, I'm the one who was running the event, so I guess I should post my 2 cents...We knew the risk, but this was the third or fouth tourny we had at that location and this incident was the first problem.I will look into other security next time. everything else I really have to say Halister already said so...*shrugs*

 

[o2bavr6]

The nature of Felucca events is you can't leave your house wide open for attack. Either have some doors for a public house or make it private and access people. Don't leave giant arch-ways all over for people to cast fields and nature's fury inside.

Also when you have a guild willing to work with others, such as the one that ended up crashing unintentionally, it would be a good idea to contact them and make sure they won't disrupt it. You could even try to get them to come protect if some people come to disrupt.

You simply can't walk into Felucca and expect people not to attack you.

That was the second thing that came to my mind when I read the post.

The first thing was that you were trying to set up a PvP event, which may have ended up griefing other players, yet when you got "raided" you are upset?

I can relate to wanting to do things in Fel, and for that I congratulate your attempts in trying, but it would have definately been a better idea to just access people to the house instead of letting anyone in freely.

 

[Wenchkin]

Half the time I wonder if threads like these are deliberately started to bad mouth players in Fel for being players in Fel lol. If this was a PvP event, and advertised, the first thing that should have been thought about was crowd control and misbehaviour.

As for the suggestions that RP towns should be protected in Fel - no thanks. At the least, let us choose how much security we want, because not all of us want to be molly-coddled. It's never going to help the Fel RPers if we exclude ourselves from the Fel community with a brick wall, and while I would love to be able to ban someone from the grass around our main buildings, that's as much as I'd ever want. Even then, I don't think you need that to be safe.

A little Fel savvy goes a long way but stupidity just makes a mess on the floor.

Wenchy

 

[FongofATL]

The OP had NOTHING to do with setting up this event, he doesn't speak on behalf of me, we got raided...o well, better luck next time.

 

[Loqucious]

Fel, at least on Napa, has been dead for soo long that I'm sure if this event took place there, a ton of PVP'ers would show up and it would be the most fun they have had in a long time.

Sorry your event didn't go as planned, but I bet it was rather exciting when the "bad guys" first came rushing in.

 

[Sheridan]

Hey folks... Some responses were cleaned up. Please keep the personal attacks and trolling to a minimum. I've seen similar situations on the forums in the past and it always turns ugly. The moment people start equating in-game actions with RL lifestyles, the focus of the thread will spiral off so wildly there will be no getting it back on track.

I understand how passionately both sides here feel on this topic, but let's try and keep it civil. An in-game PK or thief or event raider does not a real criminal make. Thank you.

 

[Slopp]

I remember the dueling events at the desert on sonoma shard back in the day(I think it was a guy named Jonas who ran the oasis). I would use to bring a newb character and purple pots and massacre the spectators. soon a gm warned and teleported me away. I was what about 15yrs old? I certainly don't condone that kind of behavior now.

 

[Vyal]

Go on the Legends shard every Friday at 10pm EST there is a fight club in fel. The winner on Fridays gets a 2mill check entry fee is 100 - 500k. You make people pay for these events and make the prize good enough people would rather obey the rules rather then go against them. Secondly take a look at the fel arena they have setup. You can't raid them you can watch the fights all you want but there is no way of attacking the players in the arena. The people watching take a minor risk but as long as the staff gets out of control players banned from the house in time no one dies.

Events can be held in fel pretty easy actually.

 

[Nexus]

I disagree...

You will not do anything else that interferes with the ability of other Ultima Online users to enjoy playing the game in accordance with its rules.

One of the rules of Felucca is that you consent to almost everything. You agree to this the moment you step through the gate.

This is where a difference came in. When you held the Barter Town 1mil gold challenge, it was known that Barter Town was a Town of Thieves. Players Knew it was going to be a PvP/Thief fest the very way you set it up implied that it would be so. This was a group of RP types holding a PvP tournament in Fel so people wouldn't have to swap guilds to participate, in a house that they aren't allowed to make Private because it's a Blessed house and EA makes that a No No and a Raid guild came and Interfered with Ultima Online users who were enjoying the game in accordance with it's rules. The Raiding party could have gone elsewhere, and avoided a prior and known about player ran event, but chose not to thus breaking that rule. Spawns are a different case it's assumed that because they are in Fel and the items are in demand they will be raided and PvP will happen it was brought up when the system was introduced as one of the aspects of doing a spawn, that's using the design of the system as it was intended.

The Fact this house if set private could be deleted on site by a GM if anyone paged (including those that wanted to raid the party) leaves the owner little choice on how to conduct the events. Simply going to Fel doesn't toss all the rules on griefing and interfering with the game play of others through use of game mechanics out the window, be it trapping people with containers, or attacking others if it is done in a fashion that violates the ROC or the TOS it's illegal period. Reason I'm giving my vote to the OP is because his house wasn't allowed to be set Private leaving him less options than anyone else, and the fact I hear all the complaining about how empty Fel is yet this is a prime example why.

 

[ShaunOfPac]

A rather large, reputable guild attacked (and ruined) a player-run, role playing event on Saturday night on the Atlantic shard. This event had been planned for weeks in advance and most active community members were aware of the event. The response provided from a council member of the guild was:

"...We were not told about it. The house was public. You could walk right inside and kill anyone. There was so many things the people organizing the tournament could have done to prevent this."

The person then goes on to state that the guild should have been "made aware" of the situation and that the event organizers should have sought the prior approval of the guild in advance.

This was a hard-blow dealt to the dedicated role-players of Atlantic and a sad day for the game in general. What ideas can we think of for EA to foster a more friendly environment for role-players? Perhaps RP only shards?

Let's use this tragic event to open up a discussion for what can be done to allow for the role-playing niche within UO.

Jesus, how do you deal with the real world if you cry about this?

 

[Wenchkin]

The Fact this house if set private could be deleted on site by a GM if anyone paged (including those that wanted to raid the party) leaves the owner little choice on how to conduct the events. Simply going to Fel doesn't toss all the rules on griefing and interfering with the game play of others through use of game mechanics out the window, be it trapping people with containers, or attacking others if it is done in a fashion that violates the ROC or the TOS it's illegal period. Reason I'm giving my vote to the OP is because his house wasn't allowed to be set Private leaving him less options than anyone else, and the fact I hear all the complaining about how empty Fel is yet this is a prime example why.

You don't need a private house, just the ability to ban. If you don't have that, then you do really need another building for that sort of event. I've never had my town houses private in Fel and never will, but that means I must be fast to ban players if they try disruption.

GMs are not the answer to griefing in Fel, because a) you have to get one to turn up and b) there are few things a GM will action in Fel in this respect. If you accuse someone of harassment, I'm sure the guidelines state that you should attempt to remove yourself from the situation before you page on the GM. In other words, you're best finding a solution by yourselves.

This isn't an example of why Fel is empty, it's an example of why you need to be clued up on how to manage events in Fel. Fel's desolation comes from much more than just player events or the players themselves. What about all the content which is outside of Fel and which Fel players have to travel to access? If Fel had it's own sources of all Tram ruleset content, then we'd have no excuse for a smaller player base. But as long as the Tram facets get the big share of the content, they'll also have the share of players too.

Wenchy

 

[Locker]

Being new to UO I'm not that familiar with the PvP environments but on other games I've played hard-core PvP players are also, frequently, anti-RP.

I remember a guild mate of mine having his wedding in a PvP arena in Everquest. We killed him, charmed his bride, sicced her on her own guild and then proceeded to slaughter them all. Their fault for having the wedding in a PvP arena and inviting a bunch of killers.

Personally if I was cruising around Fel it wouldn't take but one "thou" or "hark" or "m'lady" to raise my blood lust to an instant frenzy. I think, as suggested, rather than asking for the game world to change around you, that you accept the reality of the existing world and work with it.

Next time maybe you hire that bad guild who spoiled your event to provide security. Pay them to trash anyone who gets within 15 grids of your event. Sounds like fun for everyone.

Peace,

Locker

 

[Nexus]

This isn't an example of why Fel is empty, it's an example of why you need to be clued up on how to manage events in Fel. Fel's desolation comes from much more than just player events or the players themselves. What about all the content which is outside of Fel and which Fel players have to travel to access? If Fel had it's own sources of all Tram ruleset content, then we'd have no excuse for a smaller player base. But as long as the Tram facets get the big share of the content, they'll also have the share of players too.

Wenchy

Tram doesn't get the biggest share of content...Fel gets everything Trammel does, Tokuno, Ilshnear, and Malas are a different story and I've made the comment in a number of posts I see no reason to keep Reds stuck in Fel if they can't attack anyone outside of that facet. But quite simply your not going to draw players into Fel if the player base there or at least the visible vocal player base there keeps proving all the horror stories that new players here true. That's the problem with Fel...The immature, irresponsible, players with no self control or concern for their fellow players. Nothing else is wrong with it at all except that they can't control themselves when they should. How many of the people there won't come back to Fel because it's full of "Murdering Jerks"? How many won't come back because they don't care that they got slaughtered but don't want to go through the chaos again? How does this effect the community that was already there in Fel that I hear time and time again people screaming they want?

If you go into a Dungeon fine, if your at your shards favorite PvP spot fine, if your doing a Spawn fine, if your harvesting resources fine, if your engaging in an event that implies open hostilities are part of it's function your fair game..but to disrupt a player event with the sole purpose of causing mayhem, is immature and counter productive to the idea of getting people into Fel...


My Opinion...if you get caught disrupting an event that's not in one of the a fore mentioned areas, or activities it should be a 72 hour minimum suspension. I might teach a few people self control and if they get pissed and cancel their subs then well they aren't the right type of people for an interactive community anyways.

 

[Nexus]

Next time maybe you hire that bad guild who spoiled your event to provide security. Pay them to trash anyone who gets within 15 grids of your event. Sounds like fun for everyone.

That's a Bad answer.. they violated the ROS in raiding it once...rewarding them not to do it again is the wrong answer.

 

[Connor_Graham]

That's a Bad answer.. they violated the ROS in raiding it once...rewarding them not to do it again is the wrong answer.

Nobody broke any rules. It was held in Fel, and regardless of the circumstances, anyone can be attacked at any time. The rule you keep quoting does not apply to the circumstance.

Geez, get over it already and move on. Plan the next one in Tram, or at least have the common sense to do it in a house that isn't blessed and can be secured.

 

[DevilsOwn]

Go on the Legends shard every Friday at 10pm EST there is a fight club in fel. The winner on Fridays gets a 2mill check entry fee is 100 - 500k. You make people pay for these events and make the prize good enough people would rather obey the rules rather then go against them. Secondly take a look at the fel arena they have setup. You can't raid them you can watch the fights all you want but there is no way of attacking the players in the arena. The people watching take a minor risk but as long as the staff gets out of control players banned from the house in time no one dies.

Events can be held in fel pretty easy actually.

Vyal, it appears nobody wants help, they want sympathy

 

[Nexus]

Nobody broke any rules. It was held in Fel, and regardless of the circumstances, anyone can be attacked at any time. The rule you keep quoting does not apply to the circumstance.

Geez, get over it already and move on. Plan the next one in Tram, or at least have the common sense to do it in a house that isn't blessed and can be secured.

The Rule doesn't designate facet it applies everywhere. Not to many years ago this wouldn't have happened it would have been met with people getting suspended. What has happened is most of you have gone off on this trip that you can do what ever you want in Fel with no consequence. That is a large part of what is wrong with Fel people have no regards for anything there anymore.

 

[Redxpanda]

Indeed! They are digging their own grave..No question about that.

Knowing this, you should know better than to even bother doing anything in fel because getting raided is a certainty!

 

[Nexus]

Indeed! They are digging their own grave..No question about that.

Knowing this, you should know better than to even bother doing anything in fel because getting raided is a certainty!

I personally spend a large part of my time in Fel, but while there I play strictly inside the rules, as I would expect anyone else to do.

 

[Connor_Graham]

The Rule doesn't designate facet it applies everywhere.

What you've conveniently forgotten are the rules of engagement in Fel. You can't quote one rule and ignore another one that supercedes it.

 

[Nexus]

What you've conveniently forgotten are the rules of engagement in Fel. You can't quote one rule and ignore another one that supercedes it.

I've forgotten nothing, it's not that they attacked it was the reasoning and outcome that matters. The Raid was done with the sole intent of disrupting and creating mayhem for the participants of the event and to get giggles and BS bragging rights for the raider. That is the breech of the rules they did it with the intent of causing grief to an organized event. That's the ROS violation, it's the same as when that fool was spamming at the WRR house on Lake Superior the other day, he got a suspension for it for a violation of the same rule....

The Difference between this and someone at a spawn is Spawns were designed for Raiding it was implied with the system. Wandering around your shards favorite PvP area is implying your there to PvP well unless you go there for the reasons I do which is to steal from other players. Wandering around gathering resources in Fel falls under the Risk vs Reward ideal. But disrupting an organized event that the community at large knew about several weeks in advance crosses the line between happenstance and intentional making it a violation at least in my view....

 

[Connor_Graham]

Spamming in Tram and engaging in non consentual PvP in Fel are 2 different things.

 

[Nexus]

Spamming in Tram and engaging in non consentual PvP in Fel are 2 different things.

Like I said the Fighting plays no part....It was the fact it was an organized planned event that was taken advantage of intentional to cause mayham... The PvP has nothing to do with it...it's Disruption of the Event that matters in this case..it would be the same if I came to a Fel Event that was outdoors and spammed it alive or as a ghost it would be the same type of violation.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

What you've conveniently forgotten are the rules of engagement in Fel. You can't quote one rule and ignore another one that supercedes it.

I'm questioning the rules of engagement in Felucca if the event is building held at an OSI owned public house. I think GM's should assist in that case. If that is not the case here and it is a player owned public house then the owner should make it private, customize it accordingly, and access those who are part of the event.

 

[Lady Tiger]

this thread is the same as a hundred others started since UO's began. There is nothing you can do about so why complain? Oh wait if you do complain enough EA will change things in pvp and fix it to where the non pvpers have it there way. .....this thread should be moved to spiels and rants.

 

[Yalp]

I agree with most of what you said, with the exception of the above. In my mind, moving to Trammel means that the griefer loses. With no one in Fel to grief, the griefer will enventually grow bored and go away. Hopefully to another game.

Wish that were true.. I've found the griefer just starts a new thread demanding reds have access to Tram.

Too bad some peeps can't respect the hard work, dedication, and sense of community it takes to plan events ... they can disrupt an event, not just because they can, but because their character is less than.. well.. let's just say it's lacking. It is a definite factor is creating a dead zone in the game...one which you hear many pvp'rs moaning about now.. complaining that more needs to happen in fel, how wonderful pvp is, how they taunt tramms to come to fel, so they can disrupt a community event.

Take a good hard look in the mirror pk'rs.. you are your own worst enemy.

 

[Nexus]

Wish that were true.. I've found the griefer just starts a new thread demanding reds have access to Tram.

Too bad some peeps can't respect the hard work, dedication, and sense of community it takes to plan events ... they can disrupt an event, not just because they can, but because their character is less than.. well.. let's just say it's lacking. It is a definite factor is creating a dead zone in the game...one which you hear many pvp'rs moaning about now.. complaining that more needs to happen in fel, how wonderful pvp is, how they taunt tramms to come to fel, so they can disrupt a community event.

Take a good hard look in the mirror pk'rs.. you are your own worst enemy.

Oh there's a whole list of things the PvP community has brought down on themselves..not the least which is Trammel and that every expansion since has been Trammel....

 

[Kaleb]

Exactly my point. The whole thought of having to "seek the permission" of large guilds on a shard is just absurd! We need a better system in place for Fel-based RPers.

The best system for RP events is already there its called Tram. You say it was a PvP event? Doesn't look like your were ready for PvP. If you want to hold an event in a ruleset that is pvp based better make sure all the I's are dotted and all the T's crossed. Like making sure the house is set to private.

 

[Connor_Graham]

It was the fact it was an organized planned event

That's your main problem right there. You're confusing an exclusive guild get-together with an event. Events are open to everyone, not an exclusive group. The WRR event you quoted, and the Oceana fishing tournament, or the recent Olympics on another shard (sorry, forgot which one) are events, as they are open to anyone and everyone. Under your interpretation, I could get a guild together, then organize a guild "event" to do a champ spawn. It's an "organized event" so no one can bother us right? Same principle.

What it all boils down to is this:

1. You were in Fel, which is consent to be exposed to non consentual PvP

2. You did not have an event, you had an exclusive get-together

3. The entire incident was preventable

Lick your wounds, plan better next time, and for God's sake, get over it already.

 

[Wenchkin]

Tram doesn't get the biggest share of content...Fel gets everything Trammel does

Actually, it doesn't. Event content? Turnin' NPCs? Perhaps unimportant to you, but I find it less appealing to join in with events when I know I'll be packed in with stacks of players all jumping over each other.

Tokuno, Ilshnear, and Malas are a different story and I've made the comment in a number of posts I see no reason to keep Reds stuck in Fel if they can't attack anyone outside of that facet.

It is never going to help Fel if players are constantly lured away from it. The Tram ruleset facets all offer content that Fel players must travel for, which does effect population. Why are we talking about reds? I'm blue but I want to play in a Fel ruleset as much as possible. Let's stop pandering to reds further than we've done already, I'm not directing my discussion to helping reds, but the players of Fel in general. Reds visiting Tram would leave even fewer players in Fel and where is the incentive for players to leave Tram facets for a Fel life? Aside from peace and quiet...

But quite simply your not going to draw players into Fel if the player base there or at least the visible vocal player base there keeps proving all the horror stories that new players here true. That's the problem with Fel...The immature, irresponsible, players with no self control or concern for their fellow players. Nothing else is wrong with it at all except that they can't control themselves when they should.

In the world of RP, in the facet of Felucca, there are thieves and murderers. As a RPer the last thing I'd ask was for a murderer to "be friendly" because that is totally false in the Fel environment. You can't ask that and claim to be a RPer - they're an opportunistic murderer, with a dark glint in the eyes. If you turn your back, they'll knife you. That's their "character" regardless of whether they're a RPer or not. Your character should have the sense to get indoors, lock the doors and refrain from standing on the front porch. Play your characters like real people and that's how you'd behave - no?

IMO, the problem isn't that Fel players lack self control, it's the expectations on the part of the RP community that everyone will follow their OOC rules and requests. What if they don't know your rules? Sometimes you have to ban first and then subsequently make a new ally - most of my allies came about that way. All the organisers have to do is say "I ban thee" and target players, then nobody need die. Problem solved.

How many of the people there won't come back to Fel because it's full of "Murdering Jerks"? How many won't come back because they don't care that they got slaughtered but don't want to go through the chaos again? How does this effect the community that was already there in Fel that I hear time and time again people screaming they want?

The players will probably be disappointed that the organisers didn't ban raiders and offer them suitable protection. The effect on the community is that lessons should be learned before the next event to prevent a raid pattern developing. You can attract players into Fel, but you need to give them correct advice and protection to offer them a gentle introduction to your community. And if their first trip is to a PvP contest, such advice is of paramount importance. Fel isn't for everyone, but if your event is intended to attract new Fel players, you have to manage it properly. Not expecting other players to follow rules and absolve you of responsibility. When we had open harrowers on Europa we didn't expect any gentleman's agreements to protect players, we had defending guilds working their butts off.

If you go into a Dungeon fine, if your at your shards favorite PvP spot fine, if your doing a Spawn fine, if your harvesting resources fine, if your engaging in an event that implies open hostilities are part of it's function your fair game..but to disrupt a player event with the sole purpose of causing mayhem, is immature and counter productive to the idea of getting people into Fel...

Not everyone will support events you organise, so you have to be able to deal with those incidents. How do you know those raiders were Fel players with an interest in re-population? Not every Fel player wants to see more RPers, so organisers need to take that responsibility out of their hands.

My Opinion...if you get caught disrupting an event that's not in one of the a fore mentioned areas, or activities it should be a 72 hour minimum suspension. I might teach a few people self control and if they get pissed and cancel their subs then well they aren't the right type of people for an interactive community anyways.

I'd rather they had a lifetime ban from my buildings, but more because it takes longer to page a GM than it does to pull a bar and ban someone. I wouldn't waste a GMs time with constant requests to remove griefers when I could do so myself.

Wenchy

 

[Nexus]

That's your main problem right there. You're confusing an exclusive guild get-together with an event. Events are open to everyone, not an exclusive group. The WRR event you quoted, and the Oceana fishing tournament, or the recent Olympics on another shard (sorry, forgot which one) are events, as they are open to anyone and everyone. Under your interpretation, I could get a guild together, then organize a guild "event" to do a champ spawn. It's an "organized event" so no one can bother us right? Same principle.

What it all boils down to is this:

1. You were in Fel, which is consent to be exposed to non consentual PvP

2. You did not have an event, you had an exclusive get-together

3. The entire incident was preventable

Lick your wounds, plan better next time, and for God's sake, get over it already.

No That isn't my point Yes it was an organized event...But Champ Spawns as I said fall under another heading they were designed with raiding in mind read over the announcements of the introduction of that system.

The House isn't allowed to be set Private that was unavoidable. It probably wasn't exclusive I wasn't involved with it but...in any type of gathering certain behavior is to be expected regardless of facet because otherwise it can quickly fall under Griefing depending on what takes place which isn't legal regardless of facet except under circumstances which it has been cleared such as luring in Fel....

Like I said I wasn't involved with this..but I'm only arguing it to point out this clear and simple fact. It's the Actions of the PvP community such as this which is destroying Fel for them and anyone else. They want more people they need to grow up and try to help encourage people there not disrupt and cause havoc for those trying to get a positive outlook on it. They can try talking to people without speaking Trash tell them what to expect in a civil manner. Until that happens Fel will remain what it is.