I agree, but taking tamers completely out of pvp wouldn't work, cause of raids on tamers doing spawns or farming :/
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archite666
Guest
OMG....where do I begin with this incredibly near sighted argument...
Ok firstly you say if you cant kill a tamer in a duel thats your problem, yeah no **** its my problem, thats why were here discussing how they should be nerfed.
ok now for your first paragraph, no that does make any sence, if I had to change every single skill I had to adapt thats not adapting, Iv played a mage since day one of my UO career, Iv picked up necro, parry, scribe, poisoning, wrestling and many others, but I have always been a mage, as in my offensive ability is magery and eval. So as I said in my example, changing to a whole different character to just fight one template is not adapting.
Second paragraph
Meet me on any shard sir in a 9 by 9 box with my stealth tamer or better yet please enlighten us on your awesome tamer killing tactics, or better yet come to siege and show us yourself.
Third paragraph I think you need to improve your reading skills as I said nothing about archery and necros
fourth paragraph, ok so your saying the same cursed rederic I keep hearing, learn to fight the tamer, have you ever fought a tamer? Please once again inform me of your awesome tactics.
So in closing please, tell me about how you would handle a stealth ninjitsu tamer and I will respond by telling you what they will do, because there is nothing a single character can do to kill this template especially on siege.
As I said at best, they stealth away, at worst they kill you, this is all the evidence anyone with half a brain and who enjoys playing this game rather than making silly arguments about it on a website need to confirm that is broken and needs to be fixed.
Y
Yalp
Guest
then maybe challenge yourself to create a template that can defeat the tamer + greater combo? just a thought...AND WEAPONS ARE NERFED AND CAPPED IN PVP! TAMERS "WEAPONS" SHOULD BE CAPPED/NERFED TOO!
PS i tried a tamer in pvp, it was so easy and so unfair i couldn't continue playing it. i dont like to win at all costs, i like challenges! hitting all kill then smoke bomb is not a challange
if the nerfing was designed to make all weapons equal, you'd better start a new thread demanding a nerf to certain weps being overpowered... because, as you know.. not all weapons are created equal!
K
Kith Kanan
Guest
cap dmg on players by tamed pets... that cant be hard , or make it so you cant tell a pet to attack another player , only if a player is guarded and attacked or the pet it self is targeted it can dmg another player.. problem solved
kelmo
Old and in the way
Professional
Alumni
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Dread Lord
Siege folk. Do not let your selves be baited into senseless arguing. Stick to the facts and evidence we know to be true on the Siege shard. Petty bickering will only lead to more bickering and the eventual lock/and warnings.
*smiles* Have a wonderful day, all of you.
*smiles* Have a wonderful day, all of you.
S
Sir Stain
Guest
I have to agree with Mountaindew on this. You are on SP. Learn to live with it.
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AtlanteanAngel
Guest
Simple Qn to settle this matter :
What's the percentage of (non-tamer) pvpers willing to duel (1-on-1) a pvp tamer? (and I mean a high stakes duel, like 10mil gold at stake). If it's anything less than 50%, it means there's an imblance. Right now, the percentage is more like 0.5%, not 50%.
Whether on Seige or on Production shards, it's obvious that as far as PvP is concerned (leave the PvM folks alone, certainly), greater dragons and rune beetles, are blatantly, severely, wrongfully overpowered, and desperately require nerfing.
Simple simple simple as that.
What's the percentage of (non-tamer) pvpers willing to duel (1-on-1) a pvp tamer? (and I mean a high stakes duel, like 10mil gold at stake). If it's anything less than 50%, it means there's an imblance. Right now, the percentage is more like 0.5%, not 50%.
Whether on Seige or on Production shards, it's obvious that as far as PvP is concerned (leave the PvM folks alone, certainly), greater dragons and rune beetles, are blatantly, severely, wrongfully overpowered, and desperately require nerfing.
Simple simple simple as that.
WOW good way to put it! there u go all this post is ur proff!!
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archite666
Guest
I mean seriously, all these guys on this boards are just people who play tamers, and dont care, its sad really.
As I said someone post a template to kill a stealth tamer, id love to see it.
I love how these UOhall guys cant take us siege folks, they think a little biased argument will scare us, lol. Litte do they know we put up with biased people everyday.
If anyone else wants to argue with me one this il be here waiting, 2 down, the rest of lame tamers to go.
As I said someone post a template to kill a stealth tamer, id love to see it.
I love how these UOhall guys cant take us siege folks, they think a little biased argument will scare us, lol. Litte do they know we put up with biased people everyday.
If anyone else wants to argue with me one this il be here waiting, 2 down, the rest of lame tamers to go.
B
Beowulf of LS
Guest
I would like to see current game content fixed/repaired as far as current spells (reveal spell is useless yet monsters reveal you almost whole screen away;not to mention the ghosting buffs), virtue system is unfinished still, etc. I could go on and on.
I can see how the Greaters can mess up the PvP in siege. They are what I call the artillery of UO. They (wild ones of course) are very nasty Black Rock infected too (been tryin for that BR infected greater box). Especially since the ins is now nullified over there except the siege bless system.
I mean a lil lag against a greater means alot in terms of OooOOoo
Also they are pretty slow and while 1vs1 some may manage to kill the tamer or whatever I can see how most people may have probs with them.
There are also videos you can see that shows ppl 1vs1 tamers and greaters. I dont know if that would help.
I'm sure eventually they will get around to fixing all these issues as they are well known around the UO community and there is no way they can completely avoid all these and others either.
You never know....maybe thats one reason why they pushed the pub back...
They might of had some more changes in store for SP that they were gonna implement later but decided to add it to the new pub. They did say it was gonna be pretty big....
BTW I have dabbled in siege but never see anyone...since skill gainin is super slow and it seems a lil tuff to get up to speed there alone....
I was wonderin where all the kewl ppl hang....
L8s!
As an old ninja sayings goes "Never fight a battle you can't win." and "The Honor in retreat is living to win the next battle."
I can see how the Greaters can mess up the PvP in siege. They are what I call the artillery of UO. They (wild ones of course) are very nasty Black Rock infected too (been tryin for that BR infected greater box). Especially since the ins is now nullified over there except the siege bless system.
I mean a lil lag against a greater means alot in terms of OooOOoo
Also they are pretty slow and while 1vs1 some may manage to kill the tamer or whatever I can see how most people may have probs with them.
There are also videos you can see that shows ppl 1vs1 tamers and greaters. I dont know if that would help.
I'm sure eventually they will get around to fixing all these issues as they are well known around the UO community and there is no way they can completely avoid all these and others either.
You never know....maybe thats one reason why they pushed the pub back...
They might of had some more changes in store for SP that they were gonna implement later but decided to add it to the new pub. They did say it was gonna be pretty big....
BTW I have dabbled in siege but never see anyone...since skill gainin is super slow and it seems a lil tuff to get up to speed there alone....
I was wonderin where all the kewl ppl hang....
L8s!
As an old ninja sayings goes "Never fight a battle you can't win." and "The Honor in retreat is living to win the next battle."
I will fight and kill pvp tamers all day long on my balanced Archer. It takes nothing more then the ranged attack, good gear, and patience to kill the tamer. Reg xbow for mortal,reg bow for para,heavy or comp for moving shot and the tamer will die almost every time once you wait out its pet a bit. The GD's just arent that nasty once you survive the first few big shots & the Cu's/Beetles just dont do enough asap damage to be that dangerous.
Its all about patience 1 vs 1.
If you dont wanna play an archer but have huge issues with tamers in pvp then maybe you should just stfu & address the issue no?
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archite666
Guest
Urg your still missing the point, that without uber gear like we have on Siege Perilous, these dragons are gods, and what do you do when your dismounted and bolaed? And how do you reveal them? I think the reason you tramites dont understand how it works is because no one on your shard can play a good tamer. If you play it right, it cant be killed, except you guys have passive detect so its a big easier.
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MoonglowMerchant
Guest
In space with the equipment you described and with sufficient time, you could kill the pet and or the tamer just as you described.
The original poster was talking about a duel though. Duel's typically take place in arenas. Therefore it would be very difficult to stay at range from the pet. Additionally, a tamer could use his free skill points to perma disarm you. It is conceivable that you could win, but the tamer would have to play very, very poorly to lose. That is why pets aren't allowed in duels.
In the field there is no arena of course. So, good tamers will dismount you and the scenario begins to look very much like the duel. In other words, you running for your life while being chased by a player with offense and his 1000 point, cast on the run, bleeding, crushing machine.
QFT!
A shard is not only a battlefield, it is a place where people fight, craft, hunt, etc... You cannot artificially separate PvP and PvM. If you try to kill a tamer hunting, he should have the right to defend himself and use his pet(s). He should also have the right to begin the fight and not have to wait a deadly combo.
Of course EA should modify the spellcasting behaviour of NPC and monsters.
A bit out of topic, but kinda related, I think EA should raise the resist bonus you get from the resist skill up to 60 (legendary level). This would help siege players without creating problems on production shards.
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MoonglowMerchant
Guest
Yes, a tamer should have the right to defend himself.
Let's say that again. A tamer should have the right to defend himself.
A tamer shouldn't have the right to use pets that have 300-1000 health, bleed, poison, corrupt armor, breathe fire for 70 damage, dismount, and cast spells on the run that hit multiple screens away.
That isn't defending yourself. It is relying on a pet to defend you.
Pets should help a tamer, not do everything for him.
P
peanutbutter
Guest
hi moderator. you don't PvP or you would never make comments about dragons being too slow.Dude I play a tamer and as I mentioned in a previous thread I tried the whole PVP with a greater dragon and it sucked. The dragon is slow as heck and even a nooblet on foot can out run them. Geez people only complain about a template when their own templet is not the god template of the day then they want everyone nerfed so they can be God again. I thought Seige players had a set and did not whine about things. You just go and whack the player. Atleast you don't have tram rulesets where people can bank sit and smack talk all day and feel protected. Grow a set and go about your buissiness please. Thank you move along.
PvP is about the fight and keeping the fight going. i don't know what game you play, but it's not uncommon on the 3 shards i play to see people pop a baracoon JUST to get a fight - and when the fight's over they sit and wait for the fight to come back, rather that kill the champ.
if you CAN'T "go and whack the player" because they are hiding behind a GD, it ends the PvP (theoretically).
this is especially bad for a place like SP where PvP is supposed to be the shard focus.
now, you may be getting tired of hearing all the complaints about GD's, but some of the are valid. yes, some complaints are born from people who suck and just want their life in fel easier... other arguments (not necessarily this one) come from people who really want a better balance in PvP.
personally, i thought rune beetles were great in PvP. that was the first time i really started seeing pets used in widespread PvP and they weren't easy to overcome... but they actually took timing and skill. GD's do also, but not nearly as much - it's the difference between playing a mage and playing an archer - one takes quite alot more skill than the other (but they still MIGHT both be valid and equal in ability).
i don't know that GD's are "bad" for PvP, but i am a firm believer that anything you use in PvP should be an extension of yourself... be it lethal poison, evil omen, pets... whatever. that extension must have a counter balance IN THE OTHER PLAYERS... i'm not sure that their ability to run away constitutes as a good PvP promoting counter balance...
that said, it may be that the GD's are a little too powerful for PvP. maybe. i guess the way to test it is to find what you believe to be a great PvPr and put them 1v1 against a great GD and master... if the PvPr can't manage to win even 1 round, then there is a problem...
i have an idea of what the results will be.
P
peanutbutter
Guest
Galefan2004 said: "Dragons should be allowed in duels. If you can't kill the tamer because of the dragon then you lose the duel. Thats your issue. All things that are part of the game should be allowed in duels. Duels are also not a great guage of in the field pvp between multiple players."
1) please look up "duel" and tell me how many entities are usually involved
2) the tamer would just ALL KILL and then invis. simple. unless you're a mage, you can't reveal them.
3) as i would agree that filed fighting is REALLY where the men are separated from the boys, duels are still a valid aspect for assessing the balance of field fighting PvP. if no other template can experience consistent victory, something is wrong.
perhaps, though, the trouble isn't with the dragons, but with everything else you can do while the AI of the game controls your dragon. maybe, as in EVERY OTHER GAME, tamers should be required, via menu or macro to control their dragon's spells... maybe you should not be able to hide or invis yourself WHILE your dragon is in combat... maybe you should not be able to pull special moves WHILE your dragon is in combat?
or, maybe all is well and i'll just go finish my tamer
by the way, the FIRST tamer i've ever had in this game. i'm a "if you can't beat em, join em" kind of guy.
1) please look up "duel" and tell me how many entities are usually involved
2) the tamer would just ALL KILL and then invis. simple. unless you're a mage, you can't reveal them.
3) as i would agree that filed fighting is REALLY where the men are separated from the boys, duels are still a valid aspect for assessing the balance of field fighting PvP. if no other template can experience consistent victory, something is wrong.
perhaps, though, the trouble isn't with the dragons, but with everything else you can do while the AI of the game controls your dragon. maybe, as in EVERY OTHER GAME, tamers should be required, via menu or macro to control their dragon's spells... maybe you should not be able to hide or invis yourself WHILE your dragon is in combat... maybe you should not be able to pull special moves WHILE your dragon is in combat?
or, maybe all is well and i'll just go finish my tamer
by the way, the FIRST tamer i've ever had in this game. i'm a "if you can't beat em, join em" kind of guy.
RTLFC
What is funny is that I have heard a lot of people talk about the tamer hiding and how the GD is still overpowered.
This tells me:
1) the tamer is not a true PvPer and has no idea about PvP
2) So their opinion just doesn't count.
Now, why do I say their opinion doesn't count?
Because in my guild we had a guy who played an amazing mage. He was probably in the top 10% of PvP mages on the shard. Then he made a tamer mage, so not only can he have a GD but he doesnt invis, he dumps mages spells on you. And again he would prob win wihout the GD on his tamer mage so imagine what it's like fighting that template.
Also everyone knows that mage spells arean't all about damage, but also about interuption, so if the GD doesnt interupt you he will.
He is a true PvP tamer, not these hiding tammie wanna be's.
So naaa GD's arent over powered
What is funny is that I have heard a lot of people talk about the tamer hiding and how the GD is still overpowered.
This tells me:
1) the tamer is not a true PvPer and has no idea about PvP
2) So their opinion just doesn't count.
Now, why do I say their opinion doesn't count?
Because in my guild we had a guy who played an amazing mage. He was probably in the top 10% of PvP mages on the shard. Then he made a tamer mage, so not only can he have a GD but he doesnt invis, he dumps mages spells on you. And again he would prob win wihout the GD on his tamer mage so imagine what it's like fighting that template.
Also everyone knows that mage spells arean't all about damage, but also about interuption, so if the GD doesnt interupt you he will.
He is a true PvP tamer, not these hiding tammie wanna be's.
So naaa GD's arent over powered
M
MoonglowMerchant
Guest
A tamer mage would need:RTLFC
What is funny is that I have heard a lot of people talk about the tamer hiding and how the GD is still overpowered.
This tells me:
1) the tamer is not a true PvPer and has no idea about PvP
2) So their opinion just doesn't count.
Now, why do I say their opinion doesn't count?
Because in my guild we had a guy who played an amazing mage. He was probably in the top 10% of PvP mages on the shard. Then he made a tamer mage, so not only can he have a GD but he doesnt invis, he dumps mages spells on you. And again he would prob win wihout the GD on his tamer mage so imagine what it's like fighting that template.
Also everyone knows that mage spells arean't all about damage, but also about interuption, so if the GD doesnt interupt you he will.
He is a true PvP tamer, not these hiding tammie wanna be's.
So naaa GD's arent over powered
Taming and Lore
Magery, med and eval
Resist
Maybe a little focus?
There isn't room for ninja or hide or stealth on that template. Where I play, that guy would die all day long on foot either to other players or other players dragons. I could see it being effective with a beetle, but beetles can't be used now because they die in a few seconds to greater dragons.
That is why ninja, hide, stealth is better for greater dragon tamers. They don't always have to be on foot and they can't always be seen.
Since you don't even have to be visible now to all kill, and if your pet gets in trouble you just stealth away and log, it is really ridiculous.
How about
Taming, Lore
Magery, Eval.
Resist is not needed (Pots, petals, trapped boxes)
Med isn't truly needed because the GD is doing most of the damage.
Focus? What mage uses focus?
The point I was making is that a person who can PvP very well with a mage makes that person even more deadly when they have a GD to help them. So they would not need to or even want to hide.
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archite666
Guest
Wow name dropping, that says alot.Laff.. he called Goldy a Trammie.
I know Goldberg and he aint no Trammie
Second, I know all you will hate me for saying but if you have a place to do trades with where the items cant be stolen or a place to train your skills without being killed....basicly if you HAVE trammel where you play, your a tramite!
Simply put Siege Perilous and Mugan rock your socks, I know Mugan technically has Trammel but its got Fel ruleset so yeah.
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archite666
Guest
And your entire point is mute because you pass this off one guy?RTLFC
What is funny is that I have heard a lot of people talk about the tamer hiding and how the GD is still overpowered.
This tells me:
1) the tamer is not a true PvPer and has no idea about PvP
2) So their opinion just doesn't count.
Now, why do I say their opinion doesn't count?
Because in my guild we had a guy who played an amazing mage. He was probably in the top 10% of PvP mages on the shard. Then he made a tamer mage, so not only can he have a GD but he doesnt invis, he dumps mages spells on you. And again he would prob win wihout the GD on his tamer mage so imagine what it's like fighting that template.
Also everyone knows that mage spells arean't all about damage, but also about interuption, so if the GD doesnt interupt you he will.
He is a true PvP tamer, not these hiding tammie wanna be's.
So naaa GD's arent over powered
The point were making is, greater dragons+ninja skills= something not belonging in pvp.
You cant kill them because they are stealth, if you try to kill the dragon, they log and call it to them. They swing bolas and dismount you at which point the dragon eats you, if you say dragons are too slow, your crazy. After your dismounted the tamer can always animal form and then block you for his dragon.
Were not saying every template in the world is overpowered but any good one using taming is. There are even shown templates that a nigh unkillable due to other skills.
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archite666
Guest
Yes thank you for pointing out this guy as well. Im glad I'm not completely crazy for also thinking that argument made no sence.Galefan2004 said: "Dragons should be allowed in duels. If you can't kill the tamer because of the dragon then you lose the duel. Thats your issue. All things that are part of the game should be allowed in duels. Duels are also not a great guage of in the field pvp between multiple players."
1) please look up "duel" and tell me how many entities are usually involved
2) the tamer would just ALL KILL and then invis. simple. unless you're a mage, you can't reveal them.
3) as i would agree that filed fighting is REALLY where the men are separated from the boys, duels are still a valid aspect for assessing the balance of field fighting PvP. if no other template can experience consistent victory, something is wrong.
perhaps, though, the trouble isn't with the dragons, but with everything else you can do while the AI of the game controls your dragon. maybe, as in EVERY OTHER GAME, tamers should be required, via menu or macro to control their dragon's spells... maybe you should not be able to hide or invis yourself WHILE your dragon is in combat... maybe you should not be able to pull special moves WHILE your dragon is in combat?
or, maybe all is well and i'll just go finish my tamer
by the way, the FIRST tamer i've ever had in this game. i'm a "if you can't beat em, join em" kind of guy.
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archite666
Guest
*claps* Evermore we may not get along in the field but by god do you I love your posts here!In space with the equipment you described and with sufficient time, you could kill the pet and or the tamer just as you described.
The original poster was talking about a duel though. Duel's typically take place in arenas. Therefore it would be very difficult to stay at range from the pet. Additionally, a tamer could use his free skill points to perma disarm you. It is conceivable that you could win, but the tamer would have to play very, very poorly to lose. That is why pets aren't allowed in duels.
In the field there is no arena of course. So, good tamers will dismount you and the scenario begins to look very much like the duel. In other words, you running for your life while being chased by a player with offense and his 1000 point, cast on the run, bleeding, crushing machine.
M
MoonglowMerchant
Guest
You need resist on a mage of course because if you don't have it you get mana vamped to zero. Amazing how many PvPer's don't seem to understand that.
You can get by without med I suppose with the right equipment, but you aren't going to be as good on a mage as someone with more mana, especially after you get mana vamped.
You show me a mage on foot with no resist and no meditation and I'll show you a dead mage.
You show me a mage on foot with no resist and no meditation and a greater dragon and I'll still show you a dead mage because he will be visible.
I'm guessing your friend was playing a mounted mage tamer with a beetle, probably before the petball nerf.
You don't see that template anymore because greater dragons eat beetles like cupcakes and petballs have a casting delay now.
GD tamers aren't mages. They are ninjas, dismounters and hiders.
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archite666
Guest
*pole jocking in progress*
Right Moonglow, completly right, you should jump onto the other thread more, that enigma guy is hilarious with his antics.
I believe I was agreeing with you, and if you read all my posts, I have said that GD's have no place no SP.
How am I name Dropping if I know the guy?
Second, I've played since 1997 and the fact that I didn't feel like starting every character over again especially since most all my chars where made the hard way, like your on SP and Mung, and having to get a new keep etc, doesn't make me a trammie.
No, he had a Dragon, and he was a great mage without a Dragon. But he wouldnt need much mana because the Dragon is doing most of his damage anyway and he would focus on distrupting you with small spells.
So at a place like Wrong roof with no where to run, he would destroy you every time andnot need to hide
I run that template...
animal lore
animal taming
vet
eval int
magery
med
resist
I don't run a greater dragon because it limits the template (AS IT SHOULD!)
I run a cu or a beetle/mare combo... usually a cu, because you can't target what I'm riding and combo's + my dog eating ur face is great.
This is not an end-all template and it has weaknesses (AS IT SHOULD!!!) so when my dog/pets are busy and a dexer is whaling on me... I can eat dirt rather fast.
There should be a balance between risk versus reward... the problem is people who rely COMPLETELY on their pets and leave the battle the second they experience any risk... oh but they are there to reap the full rewards the over powered pet yields them.
That is the problem.