COMEON DEVS -- is doom boss relocating on purpose?!?

[Lord Drakelord]

How about you post the size of your group and roughly what templates you had. This will help the developers make a determination if the difficulty needs to be changed. Just saying this sucks won't help anything.

well I can say we had a rough time the night we went in, no tamers, all mages, prov's, meelee, archers, two parties, one of 10, the other four. We normally lure one at a time up the hall by Nex's shop and fight there. If the lurer gets more then one after him, then someone else lures the extra back to the center chamber. We would use the beach area as resing point.

[many times there are other folks there not of our guild so we are facing more then two DF, sometimes three or four]

However we had a hell a time killing the DFs, all we could do was get it about one screen north of the cental chamber, but then it would do the rubber band during the fight and we have to get it back up to where we had it [mainly due the fact that we had prov spawn on it and now this spawn was kicking our butts is one reason we dislike this so much, if its pops back to the center chamber then the spawning should go with it] this led to having two or three DF come after the bait and a race to stay alive with three DF's on us.

 

[Wenchkin]

hey wenchy....try it with a bigger group and even MORE df's and tell us what you think?!?

Yeah, like I wouldn't know that more people in doom = more DFs...

Some players just don't run in terror from a new challenge. I used to run in doom on a 28k con with stacks of other players. To say the lag made it was unplayable was an understatement. I still did it.

Isn't it possible to have most of your group log off briefly while the last mob dies before you move to DFs and thus ensure you only have a couple of DFs to kill? If so, I think the answer is very simple.

Or there's even the ludicrous suggestion of teamwork and effort. At least now you have a safe corridor and beach to retreat to and no idiot pulling the DF around when everyone is healing pets/players up.

Wenchy

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Every aspect of this game including formulas for things you don't even need to know are documented. Every skill, resist and stat of every monster. Essays on how to pvp, play a bard, play a tamer. Calculators for armor, enhancing chances, bard chances, pet power calculators.

Which are, of course, mostly out of date, but that's entirely beside the point. Stuff like that's good for when someone needs it. Me, I rarely look anything like that up. I won't lie -- it has happened -- but it's seldom. And the ability for other people to look this stuff up doesn't ruin my fun.

Some people buy a new game and a strategy guide with it. For them, playing the game is more about the process than figuring it out. Fine. That's how they want to play. Like you, I prefer discovery.

However, given the dire shape of UO's own website, and the statistically majorly out of date information still available on Stratics, or the vastly incomplete information available on sites like UO Guide, if by "over documented" you mean that there's a ton of documentation, regardless of accuracy, I suppose I'll agree with you.

Take the maginica invasion for example, announced months in advanced. Demons? Oh right, for the month prior to that event demon slayer prices shot up. By the time it actually got to your shard you already knew what everything would be dropping. If they hadn't announced it people would have had to actually discover it! Find new items on corpses! Rather than just going there with 'oh we only need to kill the void/light ones' in their mind. Finding out about rubble, 'wtf I can pick this up! cool!' Rather than 'stop killing it you noob! bring it over here theres still a tent we haven't blown up!'

Yeah... there's something to be said for this. But it goes hand in hand with what I've been going on about for years.

There is NO good avenue for in-game discovery anymore. Yeah, a simple "go to Magincia" would have been enough to get people there to figure it out, but these days, even that base equation is missing from the game. The game's entire fictional content takes place in poorly written stories on the UO.com home page. There ARE ways to put fictional content into the game, ways to get discovery jump-started in-game, and ways to make it all more fluid.

Ways that UO hasn't bothered with.

As for people knowing about stuff in advance... well... if UO didn't rely so heavily on players to test its broken-down, spaghetti code, that might not be an issue. Alas, in the end, it happens.

 

[mmmbeer]

We're talking about the change internally now - I should have a more complete explanation for the FoF - but the reason it was missing from the patch notes was simple confusion on my part. When I get notes, some are marked as [exploit] and those generally either don't go public until the very last minute (or after) or not at all. The Doom boss change was in with a batch of those and I mistakenly assumed it was also an exploit fix. When I went back and checked, it turned out I was wrong. I do apologize - I hate missing notes, because it causes vastly more stress and drama than it's worth.

ty for discussing it as we have been...that's all i can ask

 

[Saris]

If you quit beuase of a little thing like this well, Dont let the log in screen hit ou in the arse.

WOW I can still Solo doom if no one is theire but like I said its not realy all taht profitable unless some puts a forge and anvil down thier lol.

It was obvious it was a bug, the hard part though devs it not the bug, its that I freaking knew it was a bug, I also forgot more about UO than our DEVs know, but thats another gripe.


hey just stop the madaness bring back EM,s

We have no uniqueness on shards anymore and have no reason to accualy rp though it was a morpg last I checked.

I one day would like to see again uo through the eyes of my chars, but we a have not UO anymore but DIABLUO

but until doom is fixed, its broke cause now the easiest way to do it is, SOLO with Saris, I dont worry about the ruberbanding they only spawn one or two per room if your by yourself as a dexer.

I dont mind that their are bugs, nore that the dev team makes mistakes, I just mind that though I have brain damage I still have forgoten more of UO lore and code, than our current DEVs have ever known.

Still I place the blame on the same thing that caused the creator of our game to quit, thanks EA for buying out and fracking up everything you touch.

UO means more than any one person, its the first Morpg ever, the game that cahnged the face of my world and showed me a new one.

 

[Landicine]

I fought a vanguard early on before they started rubberbanding back to their spawn spot. It meant he could actually keep on me when he was winning.

I'm also arguing that this is a lame change from a roleplay/story standpoint. Imagine this happening:

The Fellowship is fleeing from the Balrog. They get to the Bridge of Khazad-dûm. Galdalf prepares to make his epic stand. The Balron realizes he's gotten a bit far from home and recalls back.

Lame.

A better change would be if the monster doesn't fight something after a certain amount of time, it returns to a starting point.

 

[Duke X. Winter]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Warning!

Constructive Criticism, or no thread to post criticism in.


Its ok to be upset about the changes, but mindless Developer bashing will not be tolerated
--------------------------
first off, where do you get off.

I think they 'get off' saying things like that cause they're a moderator for these forums, and not just mindlessly dev bashing has ALWAYS been a rule. It's nothing new, and I'm a little surprised more posts haven't been removed yet.

 

[NBG]

Hmm so the change was made to keep bosses in each of their perspective room. What about the change to DF.... its in its "Big" room I guess but are the DFs really "in" a room?

 

[Saris]

nope I would think it was to fix event monsters, oops its doing what in doom?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Which are, of course, mostly out of date.

Ah that depends, if you read front page stratics stuff then yes. Always annoying to get to the end of an essay and then read 'and for best results do it in powerhour'.

But if you read ('red' < past tense) the profession forums the information was very up to date. As for UOguide I prefered UOstuff the merge should have happened the other way around. The navigation on UOstuff was much more user friendly. UOguide seems to have no navigation and you have to search.

UO's main site playguide is more up to date than I think a lot of people realise you can find out most information about property caps there and what items properties can be found on etc.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

If you quit beuase of a little thing like this well, Dont let the log in screen hit ou in the arse.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was thinking that.

 

[Vex]

Isn't it possible to have most of your group log off briefly while the last mob dies before you move to DFs and thus ensure you only have a couple of DFs to kill? If so, I think the answer is very simple.
Wenchy

More DF's will just spawn after peeps log back in....

go TEAM! *grinz*

 

[mmmbeer]

Hmm so the change was made to keep bosses in each of their perspective room. What about the change to DF.... its in its "Big" room I guess but are the DFs really "in" a room?

but you cant even like get 1 df off on its own..like lure pack down to fleshies hallway and solo one up by the heallers...ive seen them rubberband from only a few tiles .. its crazy.

and room bosses u lure one to a corner and they too rubberband while in the same room

i wonder if the devs debate is as lively as this one!

 

[Wenchkin]

More DF's will just spawn after peeps log back in....

go TEAM! *grinz*

Yeah, couldn't remember what determined the qty of DFs that spawned.

Ach well, teamwork it is. Which I guess includes team complaining on Uhall lol.

Wenchy

 

[NBG]

Seems like these changes are similar to WoW's monster behavior except its done poorly..... I'm sorry to have to reference it but it strikes me as another attempt to mimic other game's AI.

In WoW if you have a monster attacking you and you move too far away from it, it will evade back to its original spot. But as long as you stay within a certain range of the monster it won't.

In the case of the recent change to both vanguard monsters and Doom bosses, the behavior seems to be close but done poorly.... If the goal is to keep a player from moving a monster from its designated location, it should have a given range before the monster would teleport back.... This however is not the case with the recent changes, monsters with these enhanced ability to go back to their original spot seem to do it with any range.

To be honest, changing the behavior of certain monster to prevent exploit is fine but reasonable testing and observation must be made before such thing goes live.....

 

[Saris]

Seems like these changes are similar to WoW's monster behavior except its done poorly..... I'm sorry to have to reference it but it strikes me as another attempt to mimic other game's AI.

In WoW if you have a monster attacking you and you move too far away from it, it will evade back to its original spot. But as long as you stay within a certain range of the monster it won't.

Too bad I dont like WOW though I played it for some time and have a 40 and a 60, trying to mimic WOW with UO is a very very BAD idea, If I liked WOW I would play it any day over UO-WOW, its only becuase I like UO better that I play it.

Plus how will they compete UO looks like crap 3d wise compaired to WOW and WOW is starting to look dated itelsf.


UO need to stick with the origanal formula if they want to keep their player base cause they are not up to taking on WOWs player base, they would have to be idiots to think they can.

 

[JC the Builder]

Perhaps they should change the spawn so only 1 Dark Father spawns at a time per 10 players. Then another will spawn after one is defeated. Instead of having 2-3 spawn at the same time with only 5 players there.

 

[packrat]

UO need to stick with the origanal formula if they want to keep their player base cause they are not up to taking on WOWs player base, they would have to be idiots to think they can.

I think thats why people are upset over these changes. First because of the way it was done. Second is, we have out own play style and when they start trying to mimic other games and change our play style its not a good idea. Doom was the way it was since 2002. To make these changes overnight and not give a notice or get feed back was a very bad idea.

 

[ColterDC]

UO, its the first Morpg ever

Wrong.......Much like alot of your posts.

 

[AirmidCecht]

We're talking about the change internally now - I should have a more complete explanation for the FoF - but the reason it was missing from the patch notes was simple confusion on my part. When I get notes, some are marked as [exploit] and those generally either don't go public until the very last minute (or after) or not at all. The Doom boss change was in with a batch of those and I mistakenly assumed it was also an exploit fix. When I went back and checked, it turned out I was wrong. I do apologize - I hate missing notes, because it causes vastly more stress and drama than it's worth.

This is the kind of honesty I was talking about and appreciate. The majority of players I would like to think are able to handle the truth (any quotes from A Few Good Men gets a razzberry!). Internal discussions are grand...would've been better prior to releasing this fix for testing and feedback but whatevah *grins*

I would like to see the reasons in catagory if this change is seen as necessary. Explaining why without releasing exploits of course does so much to calm the masses. Then you can disagree if you want but a case has been made for the better of the community, or swayed if possible.

Thank you Jeremy. I am off to Chicago and I hope everyone has a grand weekend!

 

[Saris]

anyway at least its a bug and will be fixed, hopefully. My gold skulls sales went away already lol.

 

[Javin]

PLEASE
FIX
THE
EXPOLITING
CHICK
ON
CATS!!!

She lures the DFS together with earth eles, making them wither each other, which makes them fight...and spawns like 50,000 undead, and MASSIVE lag, the DFs kill each other in less than 4 minutes, and GMS DONT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT ;/

 

[packrat]

PLEASE
FIX
THE
EXPOLITING
CHICK
ON
CATS!!!

She lures the DFS together with earth eles, making them wither each other, which makes them fight...and spawns like 50,000 undead, and MASSIVE lag, the DFs kill each other in less than 4 minutes, and GMS DONT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT ;/

They fixed it. They just forgot to post it.

 

[mmmbeer]

They fixed it. They just forgot to post it.

they fixed nothing of the sort...

 

[mutau]

Gads!! Spent 20 min checking out the change.

WONT BE SPENDING MORE TIME THERE.

What a titanic waste of my money.

One less Doom runner for the rest of us to compete with.

Come on Guys! Every time there is a change, a bunch of us go up in arms and can't deal with the change. THIS is a change, so change with it. Make NEW tactics. NEW game plans of attack. I've lure off 1 DF to one corner down by room 1 and we worked on the 2nd near room 5. NO rubber banding! Find a way to work within the constraints! We can do this!

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

One less Doom runner for the rest of us to compete with.

Come on Guys! Every time there is a change, a bunch of us go up in arms and can't deal with the change. THIS is a change, so change with it. Make NEW tactics. NEW game plans of attack. I've lure off 1 DF to one corner down by room 1 and we worked on the 2nd near room 5. NO rubber banding! Find a way to work within the constraints! We can do this!

EA: "Doom is too hard, let's make it easier."
EA: "Awesome. Great Idea!"

Weeks later...

EA: "Dang, Doom is easy, let make it harder!!"
EA: "Awesome. Great Idea!"

 

[wrekognize]

Yes, it is on purpose. Missed that one in the notes - sorry! The full note is as follows:

- Doom mobs can no longer be kited out of the spawning rooms

Jeremy,

This is a BAD change. One of the Developer's goals is to give players more reasons to log into the game. Doom was starting to become a reason for me to log in, now it's not.

...

 

[Mistura]

Sorry, not had the time to read the full thread here, but the first quarter of it inspired me to post.

This change, while completely stupid, isn't that bad. Simple workaround is, teamwork, someone lures the desired DF back to the crowd who sit a couple of screens up the hall.

If an extra DF (or two) come along for the ride, another of the team drag that DF off to the back of the gauntlet and shut the door.

Its been working fine on Europa from what ive seen over the past 48 hours.

Yes, minor inconvenience, but c'mon, its not game stopping in the slightest.

Btw, buying the doom skulls that were on sale for 50k each

Side note: As much as this change might not be game stopping, it is stupid imo. If thought about from the RP point of view, why does a monster randomly snap back to his original spawning location every so often? Especially when he has vigerously persued me up the hall at great pace and nearly finished me off?

To summarize, stupid change, but easily combated with a bit of team work and tactics.

peace and love
Mistura

 

[mmmbeer]

"only suposed to affect room bosses..."

TYTY

 

[Beerman72]

We're talking about the change internally now - I should have a more complete explanation for the FoF - but the reason it was missing from the patch notes was simple confusion on my part. When I get notes, some are marked as [exploit] and those generally either don't go public until the very last minute (or after) or not at all. The Doom boss change was in with a batch of those and I mistakenly assumed it was also an exploit fix. When I went back and checked, it turned out I was wrong. I do apologize - I hate missing notes, because it causes vastly more stress and drama than it's worth.

considering the number of revisions made to the patch notes one would have thought those you forgot might have been pointed out internally?

 

[Beerman72]

"only suposed to affect room bosses..."

TYTY

lol...lets not forget too OP that these *rooms* are too small to be affected by this *fix*. lets also forget that these *rooms* cannot be left until the monsters are gone making it completely pointless of adding the rubber band patch.

if any of you have been noticing the vanguards you would notice that this bug only took effect when they began to rubberband. so one should be able to deduce that one is the cause of the other.

 

[mmmbeer]

lol...lets not forget too OP that these *rooms* are too small to be affected by this *fix*. lets also forget that these *rooms* cannot be left until the monsters are gone making it completely pointless of adding the rubber band patch.

if any of you have been noticing the vanguards you would notice that this bug only took effect when they began to rubberband. so one should be able to deduce that one is the cause of the other.

even rubberbanding within individual rooms is also kinda stupid. dragging fleshie to one side of room only to have it rubber band back is odd. shouldnt they be able to travel within the roomn just not pass through the doors?!?!?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

There is a code I believe for the doors at the dark guardians that when they lock pushes someone either in or out (I forget which) of the room. They should be able to copy that same code to the gauntlet doors, then the rubber banding wouldn't be needed. It's only because they don't shut properly when they turn red that they could be lured out in the first place.

 

[Thrand Graywolf]

even rubberbanding within individual rooms is also kinda stupid. dragging fleshie to one side of room only to have it rubber band back is odd. shouldnt they be able to travel within the roomn just not pass through the doors?!?!?

That seems like a logical, well thought out fix to the original problem that both fixes it and makes the fix unnoticeable to the players.

As such...it'll never happen.

 

[PixelPusher]

even rubberbanding within individual rooms is also kinda stupid. dragging fleshie to one side of room only to have it rubber band back is odd. shouldnt they be able to travel within the roomn just not pass through the doors?!?!?

Agreed. The only rubberbanding point needed would be the doors...

 

[Tjalle]

Well, I must say that at least I liked this change. It sure made it more challenging.

Although after reading this whole thread *wipes forehead* I can understand why some people don´t like it.

However(!), if they decide not to keep it, I hope that they don´t go back to how it were before. Compared to this that way was boring. Do the rooms, lure a DF, kill it, lure another, kill it.
Most of the times there were little risk involved.

So, if they decide not to keep it, I hope that they find something in between.

 

[Joyous2K]

shouldnt they be able to travel within the roomn just not pass through the doors?!?!?

I think this should be the solution. The nasties can't leave their rooms.

I have seen the reverse as well... 4 DFs spawn and a couple of jerks lure one to an empty room and I don't know what they do with it... but the 5-10 people trying to fight something go crazy looking for the DF or the new spawn. Major pain.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

That seems like a logical, well thought out fix to the original problem that both fixes it and makes the fix unnoticeable to the players.

As such...it'll never happen.

If you read the Five on Friday, that seems to be pretty much what happened.

The exact phrasing was:

- Doom mobs can no longer be kited out of the spawning rooms

-Galen's player

 

[Beerman72]

RTLFC

I wonder if they ever thought of fixing the door instead. *rolls eyes*

 

[Beerman72]

PLEASE
FIX
THE
EXPOLITING
CHICK
ON
CATS!!!

She lures the DFS together with earth eles, making them wither each other, which makes them fight...and spawns like 50,000 undead, and MASSIVE lag, the DFs kill each other in less than 4 minutes, and GMS DONT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT ;/

How is it exploiting? She is doing nothing wrong...nothing illegal.

How can you lure something that already IS together?

The DF are coded to do just what they are doing.

Please dont ask them to break something else and call it a fix.

Congrats to whomever is taking advantage of another broken *fix*, you really understand how to make water into wine.

 

[Beerman72]

even rubberbanding within individual rooms is also kinda stupid. dragging fleshie to one side of room only to have it rubber band back is odd. shouldnt they be able to travel within the roomn just not pass through the doors?!?!?

DING DING DING!!!!

 

[Giggles]

PLEASE
FIX
THE
EXPOLITING
CHICK
ON
CATS!!!

She lures the DFS together with earth eles, making them wither each other, which makes them fight...and spawns like 50,000 undead, and MASSIVE lag, the DFs kill each other in less than 4 minutes, and GMS DONT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT ;/

Is this the same chick that uses fire fields in room one? The bard mage who I thought just started the game last week by how she was playing? Oh yea.. nerf her plz.

 

[Javin]

Beerman...

Shes exploiting because you cant legally make dark fathers fight each other thru normal game means (ie provoking them on each other) because even @ 120 provo their barding difficulty is too high. (AFAIK)

I have the utmost respect for someone with 120 provo (except this particular person), cause ive never had the patience to 120 it myself, and if the DF's were provokeable, id never say a word, just deal with it....

The code isnt supposed to (to my knowledge) allow monsters in tram to fight each other unless theyre provoked upon each other thru the use of the skill.

I could be wrong here, it wouldnt be the first time

If I AM wrong, I dont mind shuttin up and dealin with it....its not game stopping just annoying as hell, and illegal ;/


Giggles.....
I dunno bout the fire fields in room one, ive never seen her do anything "wrong" except the DF-wither-and-unholybone-each-other to death...

 

[Beerman72]

Beerman...

Shes exploiting because you cant legally make dark fathers fight each other thru normal game means (ie provoking them on each other) because even @ 120 provo their barding difficulty is too high. (AFAIK)

I have the utmost respect for someone with 120 provo (except this particular person), cause ive never had the patience to 120 it myself, and if the DF's were provokeable, id never say a word, just deal with it....

The code isnt supposed to (to my knowledge) allow monsters in tram to fight each other unless theyre provoked upon each other thru the use of the skill.

I could be wrong here, it wouldnt be the first time

If I AM wrong, I dont mind shuttin up and dealin with it....its not game stopping just annoying as hell, and illegal ;/


Giggles.....
I dunno bout the fire fields in room one, ive never seen her do anything "wrong" except the DF-wither-and-unholybone-each-other to death...

Thing is that it isnt illegal. Nothing they are doing is illegal. Using the game against itself is not against the rules as long as you do not use an exploit to get the desired effect. All they are guilty of is thinking outside of the box, and I can assure you with 100% certainty nothing is illegal.

The only thing that has changed is that the game mechanics can much easily be manipulated now. Making what they are doing more visible and easier to accomplish.

TBH...I would be in doom right now doing this same very thing on my non bard if I had a blue. (yea...it sucks...defending your guild can make you a murderer sometimes!)

 

[Javin]

See man, I dont get this...Ive tried to get them to fight myself so that a bug report could be submitted and possibly fixed, but I cant reproduce it, mage/necro/weave, tamer/mage, chiv/archer....none of the temps that ive tried can do it...

I was under the impression that making creatures hurt each other in Tram without directly provoking and thus making them fight, was illegal.

Again, theres something about what shes doin that doesnt seem right to me, and for that matter ALOT of people that frequent Doom on Cats. As a matter of fact, I know of at least a dozen people that WILL NOT go to DOom if they know said char is there, or if she shows up, theyll leave, because of the massive amount of undead it creates.

I'd describe EXACTLY how I THINK she pulls off her lil stunt but I think thats against the stratics ROC, if it is in fact an exploit...can I get a mods opinon here? If its not an exploit the whole game can do it for all I care...easier to get rid of dark fathers that way
-shrugs-

My whole point is that she isnt actually provoking the DFs onto each other(thatd be fine), yet thru a use/or misuse of some game mechanic, they kill each other at her bidding....wouldnt that be manipulating the game mechanics in a way the devs didnt intend(ie exploiting it)...or am I just really good at making the words come out the way I want them to sound? (I know its all about perspective)

If it makes more sense with this in there....she doesnt get looting rights with her little method, I'm sure of this because occasionally I have cast on one and have it do its little speedhack lookin super run after me, then WOD it out, and its just like I soloed it...all the loot that is there on the original stays on the instance, which is only mine because no extra loot appears when the corpse goes public. I dont know if she gets arti points or not, couldnt tell ya that one.

I guess my argument really lies in the fact that monsters spells arent supposed to hit each other in tram that Im aware of, yet she makes the DFs fight somehow...it doesnt affect the rest of the spawn in any way that I've noticed (DFs dont hit anything else but DFs for some reason)

Again, if someone can explain to me how this is NOT an exploit, Ill shut up.

 

[Beerman72]

See man, I dont get this...Ive tried to get them to fight myself so that a bug report could be submitted and possibly fixed, but I cant reproduce it, mage/necro/weave, tamer/mage, chiv/archer....none of the temps that ive tried can do it...

I was under the impression that making creatures hurt each other in Tram without directly provoking and thus making them fight, was illegal.

Again, theres something about what shes doin that doesnt seem right to me, and for that matter ALOT of people that frequent Doom on Cats. As a matter of fact, I know of at least a dozen people that WILL NOT go to DOom if they know said char is there, or if she shows up, theyll leave, because of the massive amount of undead it creates.

I'd describe EXACTLY how I THINK she pulls off her lil stunt but I think thats against the stratics ROC, if it is in fact an exploit...can I get a mods opinon here? If its not an exploit the whole game can do it for all I care...easier to get rid of dark fathers that way
-shrugs-

My whole point is that she isnt actually provoking the DFs onto each other(thatd be fine), yet thru a use/or misuse of some game mechanic, they kill each other at her bidding....wouldnt that be manipulating the game mechanics in a way the devs didnt intend(ie exploiting it)...or am I just really good at making the words come out the way I want them to sound? (I know its all about perspective)

If it makes more sense with this in there....she doesnt get looting rights with her little method, I'm sure of this because occasionally I have cast on one and have it do its little speedhack lookin super run after me, then WOD it out, and its just like I soloed it...all the loot that is there on the original stays on the instance, which is only mine because no extra loot appears when the corpse goes public. I dont know if she gets arti points or not, couldnt tell ya that one.

I guess my argument really lies in the fact that monsters spells arent supposed to hit each other in tram that Im aware of, yet she makes the DFs fight somehow...it doesnt affect the rest of the spawn in any way that I've noticed (DFs dont hit anything else but DFs for some reason)

Again, if someone can explain to me how this is NOT an exploit, Ill shut up.

Alright...after rethinkning this through I see you were tossed a bit of a curveball. My apologies...

To rephrase sir, I would not bring down certain types of bards if I were blue, but a barding skill will work wonders on throwing the typical game mechanics all out of whack.

So...through a bit of deductive reasoning what barding skill could possibly interfere with a monsters *natural* abilities?

This method will not get you looting rights on every single creature...just as you said.The other person stil has to do 1/16th the amount of damage you do o get looting rights. So they may not get an but they do get to put on a show!

Using your template the way it was intended can have some nice side effects...this is one of the more enjoyable to watch.

 

[Javin]

Unfortunately, I'm almost 100% certain that shes not using any skills to achieve her goal my man....If she were I wouldnt say anythin bout it

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I think it's a lot more reasonable to deduce that however this was origionally discovered was by accident. The only things in doom you can provoke are the undead on the dark fathers, calling that an exploit is like saying it's a illegal to be a bard. (Though judging by the lack of bard content you'd be forgiven for thinking that)

I'm not saying that excuses it (imo it doesn't need an excuse) but if it isn't intended to happen then it needs to be fixed code wise, or else someone luring a df past an already provoked df could cause the same effect and if people start getting banned for that then it's completely stupid.

 

[mmmbeer]

lich lords do it too as well as df's ... i know what causes it and im not sure i should say but anyways the df's and lord's both do it!

havent u ever noticed a lord will be strolling along and then turn on a df and start fighting it?