A plea for Risk V Reward

[Omnius]

Please assign greater value to tmaps obtained in Felucca over those obtained elsewhere.

felucca tmaps are obtainable in a much smaller area and at vastly increased risk. They deserve a larger point return.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

nope .... don't need to start 3-axis scaling the charts for points ...

 

[Kral]

Please assign greater value to tmaps obtained in Felucca over those obtained elsewhere.

felucca tmaps are obtainable in a much smaller area and at vastly increased risk. They deserve a larger point return.

What shard are you on? I dig maps in Felucca and never see another person. No extra risk, lots of extra reward already from the fame and resources.

 

[Omnius]

Digging maps in felucca is relatively safe due to awkward remoteness of chest sites. Its the collection of felucca maps where risk comes in to play.

 

[linko50]

Digging maps in felucca is relatively safe due to awkward remoteness of chest sites. Its the collection of felucca maps where risk comes in to play.

for alot of people it is the word "Fellucia", for some reason they hear that and almost start --->

 

[Omnius]

fayled, are you saying there should be no reward for the increased risk? thats not very fair.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Treasure Maps are generated based on the inherent difficulty of the creature, not the external difficulty of the location the creature may spawn.

 

[Omnius]

and nobody is saying for that to change. I am saying that it seems fair if felucca tmaps turned in at these turn in events receive a greater return than their trammel counterparts. Felucca tmaps come from a far small portion of the game, and at far greater risk, it's only fair that they produce a greater reward for all the increased risk.

 

[Muu Bin]

While I'm still on the fence about your request, I have to say that I can see your point. Fel currently has double the number of resources than Trammel (i.e. ore, wood, hides, etc...), so I wonder why double the amount of these compared to Trammel but not other things? I guess it is more a question that has likely been debated ad-nauseum before but it kinda got me scratching my head about this. Loot isn't double... so why the resources?

Also, I'm no programmer but wouldn't it be pretty easy to assign a different point level to a Fel map since it is already coded differently? T-maps aren't really my thing but I'm pretty sure they distinguish which facet.

Regards

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

fayled, are you saying there should be no reward for the increased risk? thats not very fair.

No, as others point out, there really ain't that much "more risk" for doing the maps IN fel ... which is already compensated
(Kral, above, No extra risk, lots of extra reward already from the fame and resources.)

coupled with the (just tested on test) Points being rewarded for UNcompleted maps ... withOUT a differential between completed/uncompleted maps ...
Sure ... some might go to the bother to actually decode/dig/pick/loot the chest and its accompanying spawn ... and then get the points for the map ...
just not too likely though ... even though that IS the more "profitable USE" of the map (acquire/harvest/turn in ...)

add in the ease of actually "doing the maps" .... rune libraries, worn out uoam premarked locations, same with the sos and mib's ...

Add in Dermott of LS, above, Treasure Maps are generated based on the inherent difficulty of the creature, not the external difficulty of the location the creature may spawn.

consolidate with the above aspects that in Fel, the droppers spawn faster ergo MORE maps per basetime expended ...


NO .... that Ain't what I'm saying ... (are you saying there should be no reward for the increased risk? thats not very fair)

I'm saying: don't need to start 3-axis scaling the charts for points ...
was it in fel or tram .... night or day .... were ya solo or a group, were ya red or blue, was it day or night(ingame or RL), were you mounted or on foot .... were you using a form? special weapons? a pet? weapons specials or special skills? right handed ? dialup? how many hops to the server? macros? ingame or assist? ....
did you recall or walk or ride or sacred journey there, did you use the roads? or only stealth across the unavoidable ones?


Its a stinking map worth x points

fin`e

 

[AesSedai]

fin`e

- Well said.
Evolute UO

 

[Azureal]

fin`e

QTF&E

 

[Phaen Grey]

Give them an inch and they take a mile, old proverb my grandmother used...

We have been offered something for nothing [points for a map to buy something else], accept it graciously.

 

[Nisse/Ubbe]

The thing is here that no mather where you dig a map or fish or pick a dungeonches you need beter loot.

In this item era we need tresure items only to boost and some change in old items.

I got a few examples here.

Fishing
You will pick up fragments of shipwrecks. When you got all fragments you can put them together for a totaly new shipmodle.

Dungeonpicking
Here we will be able whit a serten % be able to loot fragments of a opend chest full whit gold and jewelrys. After collecting all parts we can put it together. this chest can be used for storing items.

T-hunting
Same here we hunt for fragment to put together tresurepiles. We alredy have the grafic for 1 smal and 1 big tresurepile.

 

[phantus]

Some of you hard ass frooshies really crack me up sometimes. This idea that people are afraid of your little toons is ridiculous. Choice is often misunderstood I suppose. Anyway, what risk is there in felucca? Do you not know what to expect when you walk into that red gate? I mean, anyone with 2 brain cells to rub against each other should know exactly what awaits them on the other side. To say they are risking anything(aside from possibly time) is absurd. To add further insult there is very little chance anyone is going to bother you doing a map or even killing monsters to get maps.


---> Next

 

[Connor_Graham]

Some of you hard ass frooshies really crack me up sometimes.

Do those Frooshies come in Strawberry or Cherry, or even better, Strawberry Daquiri?

 

[Emil IsTemp]

Man, screw Fel already. Nobody even goes there. It's just a tiny minority of crybabies who think everything they do there is more important. Because, hey, they could get PK'd! If anyone still played in Fel!

I go there.

Why?

Because theres no crybaby bank sitters like this Beefy guy i know.. go script some lizzardmen.

 

[Omnius]

The spawn that gives tmaps most often or at least the higher level maps are found in dungeons. Dungeons in felucca are substantially more difficult to farm in for prolonged periods of time. With most above ground spawn gone, there are far fewer places to get tmaps outside of dungeons. These places are frequented more often than most trammel farming locations and the risk of seeing people at good felucca farming spots is higher than most players who don't pvp would think.

Difficulties in Obtaining Fel tmaps:
1/4th as much land mass(roughly) to find fel tmaps
Dungeons are harder to exit
Dungeons are heavily frequented and monitored by large groups of red guilds and solo pks
Above ground spawn points are few and far between, they are in use at almost all hours of the day and most of the time a player must contend with 4 or 5 talented pvpers to keep the spot for more than an hour or 2.
Highest population density(beleive it or not, you find more people compacted in a smaller area in felucca than other individual facets due to the limitations on exploration there and the hardcore attitude embodied by the players in felucca).
Death almost always means losing everything you farmed.(losing anything in another facet takes a concerted effort to do so.)
Escapes are highly limited due to the fact that you can't just run through things.

Proposed change:
some moderate increase to the reward for the large list of risks. double the points isn't needed but perhaps +100 more points for felucca maps than trammel maps. It's not an outrageous request like some perceive it.

It's not a trammelite vs crazed pvper request. its a request for the policy that EA/Mythic has enforced in the past. They promised us that although they nerfed the felucca facet to a hollow shell of what it once was(see insurance, PBDs, easier bod returns for more cbds, the removal of skill based pvp, the implementation of massively high barriers to enter pvp for anyone). They promised us that felucca would grant greater rewards for the greater risks that are involved. Scripters don't enjoy safety in killing monsters in felucca, they really don't benefit from this change because players in felucca regularly police their territories.

 

[phantus]

The spawn that gives tmaps most often or at least the higher level maps are found in dungeons. Dungeons in felucca are substantially more difficult to farm in for prolonged periods of time. With most above ground spawn gone, there are far fewer places to get tmaps outside of dungeons. These places are frequented more often than most trammel farming locations and the risk of seeing people at good felucca farming spots is higher than most players who don't pvp would think.

Difficulties in Obtaining Fel tmaps:
1/4th as much land mass(roughly) to find fel tmaps
Dungeons are harder to exit
Dungeons are heavily frequented and monitored by large groups of red guilds and solo pks
Above ground spawn points are few and far between, they are in use at almost all hours of the day and most of the time a player must contend with 4 or 5 talented pvpers to keep the spot for more than an hour or 2.
Highest population density(beleive it or not, you find more people compacted in a smaller area in felucca than other individual facets due to the limitations on exploration there and the hardcore attitude embodied by the players in felucca).
Death almost always means losing everything you farmed.(losing anything in another facet takes a concerted effort to do so.)
Escapes are highly limited due to the fact that you can't just run through things.

Proposed change:
some moderate increase to the reward for the large list of risks. double the points isn't needed but perhaps +100 more points for felucca maps than trammel maps. It's not an outrageous request like some perceive it.

It's not a trammelite vs crazed pvper request. its a request for the policy that EA/Mythic has enforced in the past. They promised us that although they nerfed the felucca facet to a hollow shell of what it once was(see insurance, PBDs, easier bod returns for more cbds, the removal of skill based pvp, the implementation of massively high barriers to enter pvp for anyone). They promised us that felucca would grant greater rewards for the greater risks that are involved. Scripters don't enjoy safety in killing monsters in felucca, they really don't benefit from this change because players in felucca regularly police their territories.

You obviously play a different UO than I do. I play a UO where I can go to Hythloth on any shard and farm for hours on end without seeing a soul. When I do it's 1 player and given his/her tag I know whether or not I need to leave. Highest population density if you count despise and yew gate perhaps.

What many people are hearing you ask if for more stuff for you. In most peoples minds the lands of felucca are already controlled by big guilds and while they may have competition in most cases 1 large controlling guild is dominant on almost all shards. Often it's a couple but the general idea is that the same people who currently control the fel side would be the only ones to benefit. So where is the risk for those who might take advantage in this UO you play?

 

[Omnius]

Because even if large guilds dominate a shard, pacific for example is dominated by FL. I regularly fight them at these farming locations. My guild is dead because nerfs actually obsoleted every character on every account in our guild. I still farm there. I still fight there. And guess what? the majority of people i see in the facet aren't in the classic dominating guild.

The problem most people have is that they are solo players in fel trying to play a single player game or a 2-3 player game when UO is Massively Multiplayer. I fully support those large guilds who gank me because they are simply more organized than I. And before my fellow thieves were nerfed into oblivion, we were more organized than them and regularly wrecked those folks despite smaller numbers.

Its a benefit to anyone who will take risks. Shocking but that is the cost of increased rewards, the gamble that you will leave with nothing more than a death shroud. A larger number of people than you realize farm in felucca. The most die hard trammelites I know on pacific all farm in felucca. they regularly fight off pks, they win some, they lose some. They're not uber leet people they just play as a team and rely on the strength of numbers to keep the risks down.

Often times their numbers are threatening enough to keep all but the largest pk guilds away, and they find that they profit wildly from their endeavors.


Hythloth is one of those places in UO that there have never been huge, it's more of an exception to most rules. the sheer difficulty in navigating there and the large numbers of spawn makes it a hard place, the ridiculous number of traps is more annoying than anything. This all said, I got attacked there multiple times this week by 3 different(2 may have been the same guy on alt chars) roving pks.

If many players decide the risk is not worth the reward, thats fine. Thats still not a reason to punish those who take on the increased risk, expecting to receive a fair increased reward.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

uhh
uhhh, are you new? I've received over a dozen verite or better hammers during my time in UO. My smith isn't legendary and i don't actively collect bods. Buying bods, idocing resulted in a full set of runic hammers unused in my keep.

back in the day I never had the slightest pity for people whose excuse for dieing was they were a mule. My mule was a perma red. the good Baron miner frequently pked pks and during stat loss days, never once died(more luck than anything). Folks cried oh the mean pks killed me and my skills are low. That sucks for them but gming a skill took 2-3 power hours and you usually gmed multiple skill simultaneously. max stats took an hour to attain, the barriers to entry into UO's endgame were low.

The first time in all of UO that I felt it was hard to be a carebear was when they introduced malas. It suddenly required high end gear, skills are slow to gain and excessively time consuming and templates no longer even make sense.

heh
frankly, this vanguard event is a huge pain. somehow a demon and lich laid waste to a runebeetle and a mare both fully trained.

I didn't even think it would be a fight but the runebeetle was almost instantly redlined.

whoops, sorry newb mistake. I'm on pacific, the ghost town that used to be the highest population shard.

ahah! here it is ...(06-03-2008)

I just came back to uo. I'm still geared quite well and although my builds are a bit dated, I'm virtually incapable of doing any damage to anything new.

The skill gain system as it is, is so slow and grinding it will take forever to raise new skills from the new expansions and frankly, the removal of power hour long ago pretty much ended my new character or new skill days.

vanguard spawn in all but 1 city that I like to bank in, they get hit for 14 damage by a weapon i used to 3 hit kill people with 70s resist. They hit me for 30 almost every time even though i have all 70s resist. On top of this, they spawn an average of 10 other mid to high end monsters around them if i make their health drop so that red shows in their health bar.

Should i bother logging in any more? Monsters that are nearly invincible, and pvp templates that don't even make sense is very unenjoyable.

Treasure Map(Plainly, Expertly, and Adeptly Drawn 100pts
Cleverly Drawn Treasure Map 200pts
Deviously Drawn Treasure Map 500pts
Ingenious Map Minor Artifacts 500pts
Ingeniously Drawn Treasure Map1,000pts

I might have considered a "bump" to map points ... based on whether "completed" or not ... 10% MORE for incomplete's (to compensate for loss of "loot") ..
BUT ...
You asked for a "bump" just cause they came from fel ...

rediculous
completed or not .... thems the points offered ...

YOU need a better reason than "came from fel" to consider why to "bump them" ...
As it stands now ... perfectly reasonable for me to assert ... what once was overlooked trash (left on corpse) has some NEW little value and you want even MORE for carrying them out ...

pfffft !

 

[ColterDC]

Hythloth is one of those places in UO that there have never been huge, it's more of an exception to most rules. the sheer difficulty in navigating there and the large numbers of spawn makes it a hard place, the ridiculous number of traps is more annoying than anything.

Don't forgot the fact that there is no champ spawn there.

It's easy to avoid PK's if you know where the "hot spots" are. For example, going to pvm in Despise, probably the worst thing to do since it contains the most popular champ spawn.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

instead of making everything x2 in felucca they should make everything 1/2 in trammel.

 

[phantus]

Hythloth is one of those places in UO that there have never been huge, it's more of an exception to most rules. the sheer difficulty in navigating there and the large numbers of spawn makes it a hard place, the ridiculous number of traps is more annoying than anything.

Don't forgot the fact that there is no champ spawn there.

It's easy to avoid PK's if you know where the "hot spots" are. For example, going to pvm in Despise, probably the worst thing to do since it contains the most popular champ spawn.

and yet you could still go down to level 3 and kill the ogres and titans in relative safety...

(they still spawn titans and cyclos there don't they? haha)

 

[phantus]

Because even if large guilds dominate a shard, pacific for example is dominated by FL. I regularly fight them at these farming locations. My guild is dead because nerfs actually obsoleted every character on every account in our guild. I still farm there. I still fight there. And guess what? the majority of people i see in the facet aren't in the classic dominating guild.

The problem most people have is that they are solo players in fel trying to play a single player game or a 2-3 player game when UO is Massively Multiplayer. I fully support those large guilds who gank me because they are simply more organized than I. And before my fellow thieves were nerfed into oblivion, we were more organized than them and regularly wrecked those folks despite smaller numbers.

Its a benefit to anyone who will take risks. Shocking but that is the cost of increased rewards, the gamble that you will leave with nothing more than a death shroud. A larger number of people than you realize farm in felucca. The most die hard trammelites I know on pacific all farm in felucca. they regularly fight off pks, they win some, they lose some. They're not uber leet people they just play as a team and rely on the strength of numbers to keep the risks down.

Often times their numbers are threatening enough to keep all but the largest pk guilds away, and they find that they profit wildly from their endeavors.


Hythloth is one of those places in UO that there have never been huge, it's more of an exception to most rules. the sheer difficulty in navigating there and the large numbers of spawn makes it a hard place, the ridiculous number of traps is more annoying than anything. This all said, I got attacked there multiple times this week by 3 different(2 may have been the same guy on alt chars) roving pks.

If many players decide the risk is not worth the reward, thats fine. Thats still not a reason to punish those who take on the increased risk, expecting to receive a fair increased reward.

You fail miserably to show where the actual risk is. The only risk in felucca is when a trammie guild gears up and tries to do a champ spawn and get away with one. That is risk. That is the only risk. Those who frequent felucca day after day risk nothing but their own time doing something they would do anyway.

 

[Hunter Moon]

Atlantic is pretty busy and even if I am in an out of the way dungeon spot in Fel, I will often see someone run by. I think it depends on how active your shard is and at what time of the day you are there. I don't always get attacked, but maybe half the time I do or they run by and 2 minutes later a group comes in and ganks me...

I am not against this suggestion, I just don't know how feasible it would be for them to take the time to change this (my husband is a programmer for a huge school district so I know that what seems like a small change can end up being a headache that sucks up a huge amount of his time) for the amount of people who would be turning in Fel maps as opposed to Tram.

Hunter Moon [HOT] Atlantic

 

[K'torr]

Well, another possibility is to tone down the value of T-maps in Tram.
If you're talking risk v reward, why should a Tram T-map, where there is no risk AT ALL, have as much value as a Fel T-map.

I'm surprised no one else pointed this out.

 

[Omnius]

Well, another possibility is to tone down the value of T-maps in Tram.
If you're talking risk v reward, why should a Tram T-map, where there is no risk AT ALL, have as much value as a Fel T-map.

I'm surprised no one else pointed this out.

I thought this was evident but the world is flat crew believes otherwise.

 

[Tina Small]

consolidate with the above aspects that in Fel, the droppers spawn faster ergo MORE maps per basetime expended ...

This is no longer true in all Fel dungeons and spawn areas, Fayled. See the Five on Friday from November 30, 2007 (http://www.uo.com/fof/fiveonfriday87.html).

Personally, I think the Fel treasure maps should be worth slightly more than the Trammel versions because there is potentially more risk and definitely a bit more hassle involved in obtaining them. (No recalling in or out of dungeons; can't push through monsters so it's much easier to get pinned into a corner or between monsters in heavy spawn areas.) How much additional risk there is depends on the shard and its population, of course. I also tend to think they should be worth more (not necessarily double points) for consistency with a few other aspects of Felucca, i.e., double fame for killing monsters and double resources.

 

[K'torr]

I thought this was evident but the world is flat crew believes otherwise.

It's amazing how many things that are "evident', need to be pointed out. huh?

 

[ColterDC]

and yet you could still go down to level 3 and kill the ogres and titans in relative safety...

(they still spawn titans and cyclos there don't they? haha)

Yes the Cyclops and Titans still spawn there.

It would still be riskier than going to Hythloth though. And would certainly be far more riskier than farming those same creatures in Tram.

 

[phantus]

Yes the Cyclops and Titans still spawn there.

It would still be riskier than going to Hythloth though. And would certainly be far more riskier than farming those same creatures in Tram.

True enough but are we really gonna come out and say that pvm'ng and farming treasure maps in fel is risky? I mean seriously people there is so little risk involved the word becomes watered down when you use for every single thing that happens in fel. Oh no, it's a risky BOD collecting adventure! I went to fel minoc to get my BOD's so I should get 2 because a red could try and pk me! Oh noes!

Seriously......collecting anything in fel short of sigils or powerscrolls isn't risk. Everything else is just gameplay. People are just trying to justify getting more pts for doing nothing more than they would normally do.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

consolidate with the above aspects that in Fel, the droppers spawn faster ergo MORE maps per basetime expended ...

This is no longer true in all Fel dungeons and spawn areas, Fayled. See the Five on Friday from November 30, 2007 (http://www.uo.com/fof/fiveonfriday87.html).

Fair enough ... BUT ...since most won't actually take the time to read the linky:

"Why did you slow down the spawn rate in Felucca?"
First of all, let me apologize for not putting this in the patch notes - it was one of the ones that slipped by us. We actually didn't change the spawn rates themselves - what we did is fix a bug that was causing champ spawns to accelerate the spawn on the entire subserver. This was causing spawns that were much (up to 8x!) faster than intended, in any area that had a champ spawn.

That aside ... I ain't saying fel is equal or less easy to farm in either ...

the point
is the point value
assigned to maps

OP is going on like "maps" didn't get a bump from days gone by ...
they DID
they get the "new" points value added to them .... that weren't there before

OP is wanting EVEN MORE "value" for no more reason than they came from fel ...

re-read the op ... uses (uses) the false flag of risk vs reward .... nice buzz phrase

oops!

where's the INCREASED RISK .... for acquiring the same stinking map (IN FEL)... than from before ...
the increased value/desirability has been placed on the maps .... that NOW he's asking for more ...
WITHOUT there having been ANY increase in risk ... huh ?

remember ... tis likely ... before the increase ... the maps were likely left in the corpse ...
now .... they're worth picking up ...Same Risk to "open the corpse"


OP tried to slip in a "something for nothing"
"plea"
and NOT for more PvP (as is, if its coming its coming ... work it out) ...

Cheers!

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

instead of making everything x2 in felucca they should make everything 1/2 in trammel.

That's saying the same thing in a different way, BOTH of which are pointless.

For Felucca, they need to get the new PvP systems in place and balanced so that PvP is an activity that people WANT to be involved in, then they need to REMOVE DOUBLED ANYTHING based on facet and let Felucca stand for itself instead of trying to give all sorts of "incentives" to draw people back there.

The map points should be the same regardless of facet...

Otherwise I want some HUGE points for this:

Yes its real... I have three or four of them, they spawned when Ilsh first opened and were later changed to direct to Trammel and are MUCH rarer than ANY Felucca map.

 

[MalagAste]

Honestly I don't think that folk in Fel should get any preferential treatment.... It's a lifestyle choice... I don't think there should be anything to "Draw" folk into Felucca.. the draw and only DRAW of felucca should be it's rule set... NOTHING more. To me there should be chances to get powerscrolls in Illsh... there should be some at the new Spawns in the ML dungeons... Never should have been an exclusive fel thing. And if your gonna whine to me and say that would kill fel then think about that first..... obviously if the loss of powerscrolls would destroy fel and no one would go there then perhaps there is a reason that NO other facets have Fel rules???? Risk vs Reward? If you risk going into Destard dressed in nothing but a robe to kill dragons..... the reward is your proof of might and power..... skill.... nothing more.... so if you choose to pit yourself against other players than the "reward" is that you either win or you lose..... Flame me all you like but I see no point to any Risk vs Reward.... I see no reason to make anything FEL exclusive..... as I said.... it's a choice.... just like the choice you have to play or not to play.... just like the choice you have to be a stealth/archer vs a Necro/mage.... or whatever have you..... And Yes I do go to Fel when I want to.... Don't give one woot or another about any risk vs reward.... I don't go there to gather rescources..... I go there when the mood strikes me.... as it is by my own choice. And I fully take responsibility for anything that happens while I'm there...

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I disagree on Power Scrolls... they were created specifically as a reward for controlling the Champ Spawns in Fel.

If Ilshenar is to get a champ spawn reward it should be different from Power Scrolls (maybe Alacrity scrolls).

 

[Omnius]

It's amazing how many things that are "evident', need to be pointed out. huh?

Like europeans thinking the world is flat despite the fact that watching any ship disappear into the horizon, you watch the bottom of the boat disappear first long before its sails. These folks refuse to believe the complete and utter safety guaranteed in trammel is somehow equally dangerous to the numerous obstacles, risks and difficulties inherent in the felucca ruleset. If you want fel maps you also have far fewer options on where to farm them. You're funneled tightly into a realm of danger.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I spent a LOT of time in Fel over the past few months reaping double resources at NO MORE risk to my character than if I had been doing the same thing in Tram.

You're confusing intrinsic risk with extrinsic risk (which by the way have NOTHING to do with Trinsic the city).

Intrinsic risk is the risk involved in killing the creature to obtain the loot. Extrinsic risk is the possibility of being targeted by a PK (which the PK has his own set of rewards as well).

The Devs IMO were wrong when they doubled resources in Fel to begin with, and there is no real reason to change the point values on the maps. They are scaled appropriately... by level of the map.

 

[ColterDC]

True enough but are we really gonna come out and say that pvm'ng and farming treasure maps in fel is risky?

There's more risk than doing it in Tram.

PK's aside, the push through rule and no recall in or out of dungeons makes it more challenging than doing it in Tram.

So even if you won't agree that it's more risky, there's no denying that it is more challenging pvming and farming maps in Fel.

 

[phantus]

True enough but are we really gonna come out and say that pvm'ng and farming treasure maps in fel is risky?

There's more risk than doing it in Tram.

PK's aside, the push through rule and no recall in or out of dungeons makes it more challenging than doing it in Tram.

So even if you won't agree that it's more risky, there's no denying that it is more challenging pvming and farming maps in Fel.

Oh I won't argue it's not riskier to get them in fel but the OP makes it out like it's some kind of triumph. I'm in fel all the time and I could farm maps all day on any server in more places than I have fingers and toes to count them on. Getting maps in felucca isn't a risky endeavor and if they made the maps worth more because they came out of fel it wouldn't be a reward for risk. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

AGain, intrinsic vs extrinsic difficulty.

A lich is a lich regardless of what facet it appears (well eliminating Paragons for argument's sake), and the reward for killing a lich is based on the intrinsic challenge level of the lich, but the extrinsic challenge level of the area around it.

A solo lich out in the Yew woods is going to be MUCH LESS of a challenge than the multitudes that spawn in the back storeroom of Covetous 3, however the loot remains the same for a single lich in both cases because the loot tables are not geared to take into account a dynamic setting.

Maybe it should, but it would need to apply to the game as a whole and not just a single facet.

I believe that Felucca SHOULD have its own set of rewards be it power scrolls and/or rewards for Faction participation, but I sincerely believe that it should NEVER have had increased rewards for engaging in the same activity that you engage in on other facets.

Double Resources was a mistake and increased map points is unnecessary.

 

[Omnius]

OP is going on like "maps" didn't get a bump from days gone by ...
they DID they get the "new" points value added to them .... that weren't there before

All maps were assigned this value. The inherent reward for obtaining this commodity in felucca, where there is more risk(this isn't even up for debate, it's a well established fact) is lessened by the fact that its trammel counterparts receive equal value!

OP is wanting EVEN MORE "value" for no more reason than they came from fel ...

They came and come from felucca. These turn-ins do not seem to have pre established endings and we can only assume that they will continue. As a result, many may find that their choice to take on increased risks to hunting in felucca, past and present, are not being fairly rewarded.

re-read the op ... uses (uses) the false flag of risk vs reward .... nice buzz phrase

This is a fallacious statement. You are claiming that based on the fact that many felucca tmaps already exist there was never any risk in obtaining them. Of course, there was and still is risk to hunting in felucca as opposed to farming for tmaps in the safety of trammel.

where's the INCREASED RISK .... for acquiring the same stinking map (IN FEL)... than from before ...

The risk has always existed! This is the answer to your question. The risk was always there and there are rewards for digging tmaps in felucca but since not everyone will inevitably dig the chests for every turned in map, there exists no extra reward for them. There is and always has been increased risks to playing in felucca. The long standing policy of the developers has been that players that take on the increased risks deserve to receive increased rewards if they are successful in their endeavor.

the increased value/desirability has been placed on the maps .... that NOW he's asking for more ...

All maps were assigned equal reward value regardless of origin in direct contradiction to the fact that maps obtained in felucca are obtained at substantially increased risk.

WITHOUT there having been ANY increase in risk ... huh ?

Your argument is faulty in that it fails to recognize the fact that there has always been increased risks to farming in felucca. That the rewards from those risks would then be made equal to the rewards obtained in virtual safety violates the established rules of risk vs reward(rules that are not up for debate as they are the expressed policy of the developers).

remember ... tis likely ... before the increase ... the maps were likely left in the corpse ...

They likely were taken if they were level 3 or better. This is how most treasure hunters and veterans decide whether or not to take a tmap. They make a decision based on the perceived value of the item.

now .... they're worth picking up ...Same Risk to "open the corpse"

this argument has already been firmly shut down. The risk is not in whether or not the player chooses to loot the map but in the ruleset and locations in which the corpse with a map was encountered. You keep saying there is no increased risk for hunting in felucca. The developers and facts all firmly disagree. Your argument breaks down when put to the test. You claim felucca has no inherent risks and thus no increased rewards are merited. You don't just disagree with my proposal but rather you believe per se that there are no risks in felucca.

OP tried to slip in a "something for nothing"
"plea"

You tried to argue that there are no increased risks in felucca or that if there are, no increased rewards are deserved for that risk.

before you ask where I learned how to dissect fallacious arguments or those with underlying motives, you can learn to do this in the shadowbane forums or in preparation for LSATs.

 

[Omnius]

Oh I won't argue it's not riskier to get them in fel but the OP makes it out like it's some kind of triumph. I'm in fel all the time and I could farm maps all day on any server in more places than I have fingers and toes to count them on. Getting maps in felucca isn't a risky endeavor and if they made the maps worth more because they came out of fel it wouldn't be a reward for risk. That's all I'm saying.

This is anecdotal evidence, and really offers little to any argument as I can just claim the exact opposite, denigrating the entire argument to he said she said...

there are substantial risks to consider when doing anything in felucca, this is established in my prior posts and in the policies of the developers of this game. These risks are intended to garner increased rewards. The current arrangement is that maps from an inherently more dangerous ruleset, and difficult conditions, in a vastly smaller area(and thus more concentrated as a result of fewer locations to obtain them) receive absolutely no increased benefits in comparison to those obtained in 80% of the land mass, with almost no dangers to speak of.

 

[ColterDC]

intrinsic vs extrinsic

Looks like somebody has a word of the day calendar

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Nah, I was never much for desk calendars... I just know a few nifty words every now and then

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

.

there are substantial risks to consider when doing anything in felucca, this is established in my prior posts and in the policies of the developers of this game.

Known and established


These risks are intended to garner increased rewards.

no.

The current arrangement is that maps from an inherently more dangerous ruleset, and difficult conditions, in a vastly smaller area(and thus more concentrated as a result of fewer locations to obtain them) receive absolutely no increased benefits in comparison to those obtained in 80% of the land mass, with almost no dangers to speak of.

The "rewards" increased ... re: map points
The "Risk" known and established ... did not ... the monsters are no smarter, the terrain is no harder to navigate, the Pk's are not more numerous, push through is not more difficult, rezzing is not harder, insurance costs no more, damage to gear did not increase, fatique to mounts did not increase, distances and methods of travel did not become more difficult, the names and positions of the locations did not change,

Fel ... except for the map points ... is as it was before.

Increase the current risk for the new map points ...Maybe a 10% bump for coming from fel

 

[Kaleb]

The "rewards" increased ... re: map points
The "Risk" known and established ... did not ... the monsters are no smarter, the terrain is no harder to navigate, the Pk's are not more numerous, push through is not more difficult, rezzing is not harder, insurance costs no more, damage to gear did not increase, fatique to mounts did not increase, distances and methods of travel did not become more difficult, the names and positions of the locations did not change,

Fel ... except for the map points ... is as it was before.

Increase the current risk for the new map points ...Maybe a 10% bump for coming from fel

Um no, push through is a pain when ur stam is low,the method of travel is different meaning you have to walk the entire dungeon to get to where your going being you cant recall in or out in fel unlike tram where you can recall to shame lvl4 blood ele fill up recall out, and while running out full of a fel dungeon you have a risk at meeting a pk while over weight or soon to be after a curse. being that most fel dungeons are champ spawn areas theres a good chance you can get spotted by the local zerg.

 

[Beefybone]

I mean seriously people there is so little risk involved the word becomes watered down when you use for every single thing that happens in fel. Oh no, it's a risky BOD collecting adventure! I went to fel minoc to get my BOD's so I should get 2 because a red could try and pk me! Oh noes!

QFT.

 

[Omnius]

The risks faced are intended to garner increased rewards.

The "rewards" increased ... re: map points

The rewards essentially were not increased for collecting maps in felucca as there is no difference from the trammel map reward and felucca map reward.

The "Risk" known and established ... did not ...

Are you a native english speaker or is the scattered nature of your posts the result of translations?

the monsters are no smarter,

No but the inherent risks are not just of the monsters. I think this is where you get lost. They aren't able to be pushed through, monsters can and do corner you when you have alot of spawn(as is often the case with necro casting monsters especially).

the terrain is no harder to navigate,

The terrain is far harder to navigate in felucca than elsewhere. You can't just recall into all the dungeons safely as is conducive to the farming that transpires in trammel.

the Pk's are not more numerous,

There aren't more pks in felucca than trammel? Jeez what shard do you play? I'd heard populations shrank but you don't have a single pk on your shard?

push through is not more difficult,

LOL, okay you're just sewing lies now.

rezzing is not harder,

Tell anyone trying to hunt in khaldun that, or better yet tell anyone who has ressed next to someone else in felucca that. Res killing will rock your world, especially when you get back to your body and your bandaids, pots and supplies are gone.

insurance costs no more,

Except for the increased risks of dieing right? Dieing more does result in more insurance lost. But hey, if you have no pks on your shard I guess it is safe right?

damage to gear did not increase,

you got me, getting hit hurts your gear the same everywhere.

fatique to mounts did not increase, distances and methods of travel did not become more difficult,

you've never traveled in felucca dungeons if you think its the same as elsewhere. Especially with the short cuts to champ spawns making some less accessible locations a lot easier to patrol in felucca than elsewhere.

the names and positions of the locations did not change,

huh?

Fel ... except for the map points ... is as it was before.

Riskier than trammel ruleset facets and thus deserving scaled rewards.

Increase the current risk for the new map points ...Maybe a 10% bump for coming from fel

Huh?


Are you under the impression that because there aren't even more risks added to playing in felucca ruleset that trammel things deserve equal rewards? Thats not even logical. It's as though someone did too much

 

[Omnius]

Soooo, we've put down all the arguments against risk vs reward. Can we get some dev attention?