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Pvp problems

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Please add to the discussion:

Evasion, splinter and pvp problems

Evasion needs to go away in PvP or be heavily nerfed such as just being a damage reducer rather than avoiding all damage. As it sits basically everyone pvping is running evade, it's ridiculous. It's born out of neccesity from splinter dumps, but it's watering down PvP since everyone is running high defense high offense characters capable of splintering consistently. Leave it unchanged for pvm damage, I understand it is heavilyu by sampires and that's fine. Have any changes be reflective of "player damage".

The slow effect of splinter needs to not be chainable such as adding a long 30s+ immunity, and should not double with focus attack. (60% splinter is too much) and being held walking in place thru 3, 5, 7 straight splinters in front of a group is unreal. No wonder everyone has parry right? It's a constant complaint you hear from users("I wanna play a fun char but everything I make needs bushido parry").

Shatter pots should have a longer cool down and break less potions

Skill jewel swapping shouldn't be a thing. Simple fix, have it take 15+seconds for your +skill to apply when you put on +skill items. It's basically test center out there, go on foot set ninjitsu 900 animal form away. You shouldn't be able to fit evasion, animal form, and offensive abilities in every character you make.


I realize this has been posted several times with no changes occuring, but worth a shot id say. As it sits all of PvP is basicly one group trying to capitalize on the other group with some splinters spamming while everyone runs evade to try to live thru such dumps. When the vast majority of characters are running something specific you know there is a reason, either it's overpowered, it's forced into neccesity, or both.

There are very simple fixes for large scale problems. Take a few minutes and consider it in the next pub or something.


Another long term discussion should be a vvv update, or more more specifically, giving the players something to fight over. People PvP to PvP all day, every day but the fight over goals like champ spawns has been lacking for some time. Vvv rewards are nothing we strive for today.
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
heard a good evasion fix - apply the chiv casting skill thing to it

if you have a magic school (magery/mystic/chiv/spellweaving/necro/eval/focus/spiritspeak) greater than 69.9, evasion is only 50% as functional. This would allow a straight dexer to continue to have the full advantage of evasion as they ever had, but hurt the hybrid concept. - again, regarding player damage. monster damage, whatever, leave alone.
 

Max Blackoak

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
heard a good evasion fix - apply the chiv casting skill thing to it

if you have a magic school (magery/mystic/chiv/spellweaving/necro/eval/focus/spiritspeak) greater than 69.9, evasion is only 50% as functional. This would allow a straight dexer to continue to have the full advantage of evasion as they ever had, but hurt the hybrid concept. - again, regarding player damage. monster damage, whatever, leave alone.
I doubt sampires would like this. I know you said this should only apply for PvP but when a sampire gets raided he won't be happy with that nerf, especially since a sampire is already at a disadvantage against a PvP template
 

Xris

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Please add to the discussion:

Evasion, splinter and pvp problems

Evasion needs to go away in PvP or be heavily nerfed such as just being a damage reducer rather than avoiding all damage. As it sits basically everyone pvping is running evade, it's ridiculous. It's born out of neccesity from splinter dumps, but it's watering down PvP since everyone is running high defense high offense characters capable of splintering consistently. Leave it unchanged for pvm damage, I understand it is heavilyu by sampires and that's fine. Have any changes be reflective of "player damage".

The slow effect of splinter needs to not be chainable such as adding a long 30s+ immunity, and should not double with focus attack. (60% splinter is too much) and being held walking in place thru 3, 5, 7 straight splinters in front of a group is unreal. No wonder everyone has parry right? It's a constant complaint you hear from users("I wanna play a fun char but everything I make needs bushido parry").

Shatter pots should have a longer cool down and break less potions

Skill jewel swapping shouldn't be a thing. Simple fix, have it take 15+seconds for your +skill to apply when you put on +skill items. It's basically test center out there, go on foot set ninjitsu 900 animal form away. You shouldn't be able to fit evasion, animal form, and offensive abilities in every character you make.


I realize this has been posted several times with no changes occuring, but worth a shot id say. As it sits all of PvP is basicly one group trying to capitalize on the other group with some splinters spamming while everyone runs evade to try to live thru such dumps. When the vast majority of characters are running something specific you know there is a reason, either it's overpowered, it's forced into neccesity, or both.

There are very simple fixes for large scale problems. Take a few minutes and consider it in the next pub or something.


Another long term discussion should be a vvv update, or more more specifically, giving the players something to fight over. People PvP to PvP all day, every day but the fight over goals like champ spawns has been lacking for some time. Vvv rewards are nothing we strive for today.
I agree, between ghost cams and over powered pvp templates I only log in 2x a month now. I feel pvp needs a big balance (not that it's the worst it's been, but ugh) and realistic rewards. I play WoW now because at least you get something for the effort you put in. I don't want to learn to run scripts to pvp, it's not fun to me. Seeing how many people run healing/pot scripts is crazy, I don't want to fight a computer.
 

John Knighthawke

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Regarding rewards, I've long-suggested that every non-event-specific-reward should be available in both rules sets. Not content, mind you, I like content being unique (In Fel, the non-consensual PvP is the content), just rewards. So for example a super-beefed up Harrower should be able to drop any artifact in UO. (Why super beefed up? Because it used to be a harder boss than it is now and if it can spawn such a great variety of rewards it should be harder again.) Its chance of dropping, say, a Cincture should be way lower than a Peerless dropping one, so that way if you're specifically after a Cincture, it's better for you to Peerless hunt. Other Champs in Fel could drop other things (somehow The Piper dropping Corgu sashes feels right). And, say, some boss in a Trammel rules facet (Slasher of Veils?) should be able to drop stat scrolls or "Evil Statues" but they should drop way less often then they drop from the Harrower.

At present there are rewards that are native to Felucca that folks who play there aren't much interested in. Best example is the stuff from the Primeval Lich spawn. Lots of neat content but it's stuff Trammel players would be more interested in. So mirror it in a Trammel rules facet. Leave the Fel version for those who want to PvP over it.

I used to have this extremely elaborate scheme filling in some specific ideas but....No point, really. Because, you see, this will never happen.

The team likes having rewards be distinct -- they think, incorrectly in my estimation, that cross-rules set trading occurs routinely and that cross-rules set trading has some kind of mystique. Like spice trading in the old days RL. Also, I've noticed that Fel players also seem to like having access to stuff others don't have access to. Frankly though I think that everyone would be happier under a system like I've suggested. Like a lot.

Everyone could get everything they want without ever setting foot in a place they didn't want to go to. The incentive to cross over would still exist because stuff would still spawn more often in its native rules set. And what would the Fellies have to fight over? Literally, everything. (Or close to it.)

-John's player
 

Great DC

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
LOLOLOL this is everything I said over 2 years ago and the OP said pvp was balanced then. Just listen to the Great DC when Im speaking, I know what im talking about.
 

Max Blackoak

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I posted similarly on the other thread but just for those who don't read the official forums:

I believe that the source of the problem is the massive amount of +skill people can fit on their suits these days. This allows PvPers to play parry bush mages without sacrificing anything vital.

I play Siege where we don't have insurance and you don't see parry bush mages there because they can't rely on more than maybe +30-40 skill on their suits. One death and everything except that one blessed item you get is gone.

Might the solution to this problem be limiting the ammount of +skill you can have per character?
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
I always thought they needed a separate set of rules for PvP vs PvM...

Most games I play have that. The specials you can do etc are yes or no and lowered against other players... and I agree that all the +skill items maybe shouldn't count in PvP...

but the problem mostly is that people are using illegal 3rd party programs and hacks... I have rarely ever seen anyone post any screenshots or videos of PvP that don't show blatant and rampant cheating... I highly doubt there are any at all "true" PvPers who could actually PvP without all the cheats and hacks ... perhaps those that use the EC... but most PvPers use the CC... at least from the screenies and video's I've seen on Discord...

Personally I think that there is no balancing PvP..... until they address the elephant in the room..... which is the use of the cheat programs and hacks... but they can't stop 1 player from scripting 10+ shards non-stop 24/7 in Blackthorns, they can't stop 1 player from spamming 24/7 on every shard about selling gold and all that... how are they going to "fix" anything related to PvP???
 

cazador

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Pvp Balance thoughts and fixes


Evasion/Bush Mages are broke...no character should be able to absorb 200 hits of damage if you fail to disarm them. (Leave the timer alone, leave the skill requirement for usage. Have a capped damage absorption like Attunement works. On activation based on real skill of Bushido, Tactics, Anatomy you gain an absorption pool of X)

Spellweaving buffs shouldn’t be for Player Vs Player damage..period. Why on earth does it make sense to anyone that a Explosion from a Legendary Scholar does 16-18 damage.
(Remove from Player vs Player combat)

Trap boxes are infinite paralyze breakers..how does that make sense? Possibly because the devs feel ehh..trap pouches should of been fixed with damage scale and had some QOL worked in. Simple things.
(You can have 5 trapped pouches in your backpack at any given time. A trapped pouch is colored differently then a non trapped pouch. )

(Remove infinite para breakers.)

Parry should be buffed to real skill and the % should be increased. 40% first parry with a 15 second timer of depreciating returns 40/30/20/10 easily would remedy it. I don’t see how you can justify a wrestle parry mage on foot against 3 warriors having an 80% survival rate.

Shatter potions either need to be heavily nerfed or the left the same with repercussions at least. Why can there be 4 stealthers at the gate randomly throwing them. Instant hide rinse repeat every ~30 seconds easy fix. No using potions in ninja forms, after shatter is thrown it starts an 8 second item use/skill timer. IE: no smoke bombs or skill usage. They still have purpose but lose the function of solely trolling.

Bring back Nuke Mages. They have no defense and are virtually unplayable today because inscription as a supplemental skill is useless. 100 inscribe adds 3-5 damage?? Really.. buff spell damage back to its 40% like before. You’ve already lost most defensive ability and now we’ve lost offensive ability. Bad implementation.

NO CHANGES SHOULD AFFECT PVM content. Also if you primarily PvM your input isn’t truly needed..I don’t go posting that PvM should be balanced and fight to have Vampiric Embrace as a timed cast or something, and needs reapply every 30 seconds. That would be a fun meta breaker.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Gorath

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
I quit the game and my accounts are long gone now...sold or whatever. I pop in here once in a while to see if the game is basically going under.

I just wanted to chime in that PVP was extremely broken and one of the main reasons I left.
 

Effort

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Let's make sure we get some disarm archer nerfs in here too Cetric, what do you have in mind bro?

I feel like the skill jewel idea you proposed isn't beneficial, since anything to push a meta forward in a 20 year game staffed by 5 people is good, and that makes people stretch even further.

Evasion needs toned down, I like the 69.9 skill thing.


Splintering is still abusive, but but I'm concerned you didn't propose a single adjustment to your primary template as a disarm archer.

Maybe for disarm they'll remove the Journal message, and any buff bar indicator so people can't scan journal , auto swap weps and preset a special move in theory.


overall some good ideas
 

GarthGrey

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
It always amazes me that people can describe the ins and outs of a particular script, but yet they themselves don't do it...
 

Tjalle

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
It always amazes me that people can describe the ins and outs of a particular script, but yet they themselves don't do it...
Almost as amazing as all these Please-fix-PvP-lists that never ever includes illegal programs...
 

cazador

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Funny, no mention of illegal programs from OP. LOL
Funny how you have zero input other than some cheeky comment about 3rd party programs..if the devs had the ability to remove them I’m sure they would. They are generally lackluster at best, but I’m sure they see how it destroys certain aspects of all facets..and as much as everyone claims pvp is ch3ating haxXors bro!! 90% of the scripts are geared towards PvM, idocs and things like that. I kno I kno..pvpers cant possible chug their own potions or pop their own trap boxes. They can’t possibly be better then me!! Haxxxxx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

dingomate

Seasoned Veteran
Funny how you have zero input other than some cheeky comment about 3rd party programs..if the devs had the ability to remove them I’m sure they would. They are generally lackluster at best, but I’m sure they see how it destroys certain aspects of all facets..and as much as everyone claims pvp is ch3ating haxXors bro!! 90% of the scripts are geared towards PvM, idocs and things like that. I kno I kno..pvpers cant possible chug their own potions or pop their own trap boxes. They can’t possibly be better then me!! Haxxxxx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Funny how you have zero input other than some cheeky comment
 

Anonymous UOPlayer

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
heard a good evasion fix - apply the chiv casting skill thing to it

if you have a magic school (magery/mystic/chiv/spellweaving/necro/eval/focus/spiritspeak) greater than 69.9, evasion is only 50% as functional. This would allow a straight dexer to continue to have the full advantage of evasion as they ever had, but hurt the hybrid concept. - again, regarding player damage. monster damage, whatever, leave alone.
evasion comes with bushido. therefore not 'straight dexer.' bushido's still a kind of casting skill. i mean rp wise the spells are more like specials then spells but.....was rp really what you had in-mind?
 

Effort

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
An oversight in no mention of Nether Cyclone being the only spell in UO where you can:

1) precast
2) do area damage with no reduction in damage based on number of target

That would be my #1
 
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