Benefits of GM Remove Trap?

[Keven2002]

I finally GM'ed RT last night. Overall wasn't painful at all and allowed me to see a lot of different drops in the stash/supply chests that I'd probably not have given much thought to if I hadn't done so many for RT. I did cheat a bit and use +10 RT when I reached 90 but I've literally had those RT pinks sitting collecting cobwebs for years! Figured I'd finally put them to good use.
From 29 - 90.1 I used mostly treasure chests (stash/supply mainly) with a sprinkle of the circuit puzzle trap when I didn't have time to go find coordinates and dig up a chest. It took me about 100 maps or so to get from 29-90; I did switch to cache around 86 because I had many more of those than supply AND I would get a couple more attempts per chest which gave me .1 or .2 more gains then just using a supply chest (averaged at least .1 from each chest).

One thing I noticed for those people still training RT is that ALL LEVEL chests are "Optimal" for using RT so chance on gains will be the same for Stash through Trove. The higher maps will likely have more attempts (and more spawn) so you will likely gain more per chest on the higher levels.

That said, now that I'm 100 RT I'm at a bit of a loss on having GM'ed it because I did 4 more supply maps after I reached 100 and I still failed on every single chest at least once. One of them I was successful on the second try, one I was successful on the third try, and the other two chests took me 4 attempts. I actually took off my gloves on the last 2 chests because I felt like at GM RT I should be able to remove the trap successfully first try on a Supply chest and those 2 chests are the ones that took 4 attempts!

Honestly I understand "why" this is the case since treasure chests seem to be be "optimal" at all skill levels (at least when I started using ball of knowledge around 70 up to GM) so this tells me the skill required at all levels seems to be the same but makes me think having GM RT a bit pointless. I understand a hoard or trove map might be harder to remove a trap from since those are the highest levels but I shouldn't fail on the second lowest chests there is. To me, that's the equivalent of failing to cast a level 5 spell with 100 magery.

I'm going to do some more testing and provide more updates since I only have 4 supply chests done at 100RT.

In the meantime, anyone know if anything has been officially posted about how RT at higher levels should work?

 

[Forge002]

Yeah this is exactly what i have experienced. Like you i am now GM RT but apart from stash maps (which i can do first time) any higher levels sometimes take 3/4 attempts, even on Supply maps. I have done loads of maps this past week and i have not noticed any difference from 90 (where i started) to GM? As a comparison, GM Lock-picking for example, apart from Hoard/Trove, 100% unlocks chests 1st time with no issue, would have thought GM RT would work the same.

 

[Tina Small]

It seems like the Supply maps at GM RT are 50/50 on whether or not you get an explosion (and once in a blue moon, two). Cache and above always seem to get at least one explosion, more the higher you go, with GM Remove Trap. I have no explanation why other than maybe the idea was to slow down the whole process of finishing a map and an extra chance to cause some more wear on your gear. With less loot to grab, maybe the devs thought the process needed lengthening. I can't come up with any other reason for why you would add lootless monsters that give no benefit when the character has maximized every thing that actually applies to the process of treasure hunting (cartography, lockpicking, and remove trap).

 

[Forge002]

Thing is its not really a major issue, its just a real pain in the ass when doing a supply map and getting 3+ failures, pretty much all the time. Would expect some degree of failure, but not 3/4 times at the frequency in which it happens. Hopefully it is something they can address at some point but not holding my breath.

 

[Chrille]

Im still waiting to get my first failure. Done 38 maps so far Im at 70 in rt now started at 40 ish and I have never had a failure yet.

 

[Keven2002]

Im still waiting to get my first failure. Done 38 maps so far Im at 70 in rt now started at 40 ish and I have never had a failure yet.

You've had no ancient guardians spawn on you during the RT process? What level maps are you doing? Sounds like you are in favor with the UO RNG Gods .

Thing is its not really a major issue, its just a real pain in the ass when doing a supply map and getting 3+ failures, pretty much all the time. Would expect some degree of failure, but not 3/4 times at the frequency in which it happens. Hopefully it is something they can address at some point but not holding my breath.

Honestly I have no issue with failing a few times on cache (since they can have hoard/trove loot tables), hoard, and trove chests and somewhat expect that even at GM it would take some attempts but I do think that there should be some type of skill vs success that should come into play here as the chests increase. I'd say it should be something like (at GM RT) 100% success on Stash/Supply, 75% success on Cache, 50% success on Hoard, and 25% chance on Trove.

Like I said, I have some more testing to do on the various chests now that I'm GM RT but I have a feeling that my success rate of removing a trap successfully is likely the same at 100 as it was at like 80 (for supply chests). My biggest question is the success rate on hoard/trove maps because I have a sneaking suspicion that GM RT probably gives the same chances as 50 or less RT because RT isn't required at any level and there would be tons of complaints if it took 20 attempts to RT a chest (assuming nobody has taken 20 attempts yet lol).

Another thing I noticed was that when I was doing maps earlier on (supply chests) was that I would fail several times in a row but I only used the RT skill once and it would do like 5+ attempts. Now that I'm GM on the supply chests I've done; I will use the RT skill once and I will get the first fail without having the use the skill again but on that second fail I now get that message that says the "lock jams" and I have to use the RT skill again to begin removing trap. After that I will need to use remove trap skill again after each failure (guardian spawned). I'm not sure if this is by design or maybe an oversight?

The only thing I can think of right now is that maybe that red message I get about the lock jamming is like a perk of GM RT? That each chest would take the same amount of skill usage attempts (regardless of skill) to open but the number of fails within a single attempt are lessened by the higher RT?

 

[Chrille]

Ohh I get guardians but thats just the process not a failure.

 

[Keven2002]

Ohh I get guardians but thats just the process not a failure.

Ah understood. I'm talking about a failure as something other than a successful remove trap and opening the chest (not necessarily a message saying you failed).

 

[Tina Small]

You've had no ancient guardians spawn on you during the RT process? What level maps are you doing? Sounds like you are in favor with the UO RNG Gods .



Honestly I have no issue with failing a few times on cache (since they can have hoard/trove loot tables), hoard, and trove chests and somewhat expect that even at GM it would take some attempts but I do think that there should be some type of skill vs success that should come into play here as the chests increase. I'd say it should be something like (at GM RT) 100% success on Stash/Supply, 75% success on Cache, 50% success on Hoard, and 25% chance on Trove.

Like I said, I have some more testing to do on the various chests now that I'm GM RT but I have a feeling that my success rate of removing a trap successfully is likely the same at 100 as it was at like 80 (for supply chests). My biggest question is the success rate on hoard/trove maps because I have a sneaking suspicion that GM RT probably gives the same chances as 50 or less RT because RT isn't required at any level and there would be tons of complaints if it took 20 attempts to RT a chest (assuming nobody has taken 20 attempts yet lol).

Another thing I noticed was that when I was doing maps earlier on (supply chests) was that I would fail several times in a row but I only used the RT skill once and it would do like 5+ attempts. Now that I'm GM on the supply chests I've done; I will use the RT skill once and I will get the first fail without having the use the skill again but on that second fail I now get that message that says the "lock jams" and I have to use the RT skill again to begin removing trap. After that I will need to use remove trap skill again after each failure (guardian spawned). I'm not sure if this is by design or maybe an oversight?

The only thing I can think of right now is that maybe that red message I get about the lock jamming is like a perk of GM RT? That each chest would take the same amount of skill usage attempts (regardless of skill) to open but the number of fails within a single attempt are lessened by the higher RT?

Do you remember when I kept saying I had to use RT more than once when I was at GM RT? That everything didn't proceed automatically? Now you know what I was talking about! On my other t-hunters that don't have GM remove trap, yes the process seems to run automatically all the way through explosions to successful disarming. But at some point you start having one explosion and then.....nothing. No message or anything and you have to use RT again to get things going again.

 

[Keven2002]

Do you remember when I kept saying I had to use RT more than once when I was at GM RT? That everything didn't proceed automatically? Now you know what I was talking about! On my other t-hunters that don't have GM remove trap, yes the process seems to run automatically all the way through explosions to successful disarming. But at some point you start having one explosion and then.....nothing. No message or anything and you have to use RT again to get things going again.

Yes!! I now feel your pain!

Seems like it might be a bug then?

 

[Tina Small]

Yes!! I now feel your pain!

Seems like it might be a bug then?

Yes. It's never made sense that the process doesn't finish automatically.

 

[Draza]

The process stops if the guardian is alive when the check completes its timer based on your skill.

Once the guardian is dead, one more RT attempt should auto complete it.

While the guardians alive, i will get several bursts of damage, then a message saying the guardian has to be killed to ooen the chest.

 

[Keven2002]

I guess the "check" is done right away at GM RT then?

Just about every time I get the below message that my attempt fails as soon as the guardian spawns (even when the RC kills it 1 hit). When I was lower it would spawn and keep trying to automatically remove trap again without requiring to queue to skill and click the chest again.



I've also done 10 supply chests today at 100 RT and 8 out of 10 took 3 attempts (failed twice) to remove trap and 2 of the 10 took 2 attempts (1 fail). Again this seems like a lot of fails for a supply chest (former level 2 & 3) with 100 point invested into the skill...

I will do more testing on cache level fails in a bit.

 

[Khaelor]

I guess the "check" is done right away at GM RT then?

Just about every time I get the below message that my attempt fails as soon as the guardian spawns (even when the RC kills it 1 hit). When I was lower it would spawn and keep trying to automatically remove trap again without requiring to queue to skill and click the chest again.

@Draza is correct about the mechanics.

So this is how it works on a trove chest with low RT skill (will use Joat for this example)

90 seconds of guardian spawns with damage taken every 10 seconds. If the final guardian is alive when remove trap does the final check, at the very least you will have to use the skill again. If you get the message the guardian needs to be dead, then from my experience you need to use the skill once more and it auto succeeds.

You cannot circumvent the "gauntlet" (you will never succeed before that 1:30, but you can succeed at that final 1:45 check.)

If you go through the gauntlet and you fail, then you go into the normal remove trap mode, where you use the skill on the chest and 10 seconds later you fail and the mechanism jams and a guardian spawns or you get a success message and the trap is removed.


How it was working on TC was once you finished the gauntlet, the trap would be removed. This had me a little concerned since you could have multple fails at GM RT and the length of time could end up being longer than no RT. They changed it now so you can fail the gauntlet and then have to do those single mob checks.

 

[Dizzy]

I was hoping GM RT might let me bypass the guardians altogether...

 

[Keven2002]

@Draza is correct about the mechanics.

So this is how it works on a trove chest with low RT skill (will use Joat for this example)

90 seconds of guardian spawns with damage taken every 10 seconds. If the final guardian is alive when remove trap does the final check, at the very least you will have to use the skill again. If you get the message the guardian needs to be dead, then from my experience you need to use the skill once more and it auto succeeds.

You cannot circumvent the "gauntlet" (you will never succeed before that 1:30, but you can succeed at that final 1:45 check.)

If you go through the gauntlet and you fail, then you go into the normal remove trap mode, where you use the skill on the chest and 10 seconds later you fail and the mechanism jams and a guardian spawns or you get a success message and the trap is removed.


How it was working on TC was once you finished the gauntlet, the trap would be removed. This had me a little concerned since you could have multple fails at GM RT and the length of time could end up being longer than no RT. They changed it now so you can fail the gauntlet and then have to do those single mob checks.

I think I got it... So the benefit of the benefit of having GM RT is that you won't go through that 90 second gauntlet but rather skips right to using the "normal remove trap mode" and you just get a single 10 second spawn at which the mechanism jams (rinse and repeat until you are successful)?


Side note for those keeping track: I did another 10 supply chests and the range is for sure 2-3 attempts per chest at GM RT. I also some Cache maps tonight (5) and the range of attempts here seems to be no less than 3 and no more than 5. I had 1 chest open after the 3rd attempt, 2 open after 4 and 2 open at 5. I need to test more on the cache but it seems like that range would make sense 3-5.

 

[Cinderella]

Are you using the glasses?
cause I thought that was supposed to help

 

[popps]

Are you using the glasses?
cause I thought that was supposed to help

I do not think that the Glasses do anything to Remove Trap successes..... I think they only have a play in what type of Chest one gets, whether Rusty, Metal or Gold.

Different types of Chests have different quality loot with Rusty being the worst and Gold the best, I understand.

 

[Keven2002]

Are you using the glasses?
cause I thought that was supposed to help

Glasses only impact cartography; not remove trap. In addition, the carto glasses currently do NOT stack with 100 Carto so at the moment the glasses don't actually do anything once you are at GM Carto.

Now that I've hit GM Remove Trap, I've also tried taking my gloves off (as it supposedly was supposed to do something previously on remove trap) and it still says "optimal" on the treasure chests and still fail the same amount as with gloves. It appears that removing the gloves has no effect on success.

 

[MalagAste]

The glasses are supposed to work like mining gloves but they don't... maybe that'll be fixed when they fix them spawning above +5.

 

[Zeke]

I've done 30 or so supply with GM RT and have only had guardians a couple of times and in every case it was just one.

 

[Keven2002]

I've done 30 or so supply with GM RT and have only had guardians a couple of times and in every case it was just one.

That seems to fall in line with what I posted earlier:

Side note for those keeping track: I did another 10 supply chests and the range is for sure 2-3 attempts per chest at GM RT. I also some Cache maps tonight (5) and the range of attempts here seems to be no less than 3 and no more than 5. I had 1 chest open after the 3rd attempt, 2 open after 4 and 2 open at 5. I need to test more on the cache but it seems like that range would make sense 3-5.

On a supply chest the most guardians that spawned was 2; I'd always get it on the third try but I never got it on the first try. With the cache chest it seems like the range is 3-5 (I did a few more chests to confirm this). Quite possible a hoard chest is 4-6 attempts but haven't tested it yet.

You are correct though that only one ancient guardian spawns per skill use (I always get a message saying the mechanism jams which stops the process of removing trap and thus spawning of guardians).

 

[Swordsman]

After digging 8 maps, Stash - Cache, no item has value for use. I decided to forget about the RT which was at 47, and go straight to dig the hoard maps. I used another approach to handle the process, and finished the job without a death. Two Titans almost killed the toon though.

As a conclusion, the training on RT is not necessary.

 

[Akiho]

I've done 30 or so supply with GM RT and have only had guardians a couple of times and in every case it was just one.

With GM RT, Exactly my experience, like 70% of the time seems to spawn 1 ancient guardian and on the odd occasion it pops first try.

When it comes to trove (the level 5 stuff) having GM RT seems to be a bit redundant, ok you can save some time if your pulling level 5 on your own, a few extra mobs is no hard task.

Whilst I think the new system is good, it seems like it needed a little more thought.

Those capable of doing top level t-maps, want to do top level t-maps, I dont want to spend weeks doing level 2 maps to get a set of glasses that will boost my overall loot chance.

Yeah, I've posted this in another thread and yeah, I'm pissed off doing level 2 maps!