New Treasure Chest Loot Guessing Game

[Keven2002]

@Kyronix @Mesanna

Decided to do some side by side comparisons to see what we can currently get on prod shards vs what we are getting on TC1. See if you can correctly guess which server (Prod or TC1 these items came from). Items are in order 1 - 8.



Ready for the answers?

Item 1 is from TC1.

Item 2-8 are all from prod... FROM THE SAME CHEST (level 6)!!

Obviously these aren't all keepers but the mods on Prod are all the same if not better than the typical mods on TC1 (I've posted other places with other TC1 loot with similar mods). In addition to the 2-3 items from the chest I'd keep (jewels and mask) I also got 89 total items for 1249 turn in points, 30k gold, 6 essence, 2 refinements (fortification for dragon armor & defense for bone), another level 6 map, a Martie, and a pet treat.... AND I got 1000 turn in points for the map. This map was completed in Tram (no extra 1000 luck) with 3430 luck).

On the other hand, the axe in pic one came from an ARTISAN TROVE chest . The chest had a total of FIVE items!! I didn't see any dust when I opened the chest (only failed the circuit 3 times). Here is exactly what I got from the highest possible artisan treasure with 5830 luck (in Tram). No legendary items, no scrolls, no gold, no recipes, no resources, no materials, 124 turn in points on the FIVE items, and 750 points for the (level 7) map.



This TC1 loot is pathetic!! I've done some pretty thorough testing of the chests I'd do on TC1 and it's been absolute junk with one or two exceptions of a legendary item being ballpark what I displayed earlier (that is currently spawned in PROD!!!!! ). I'm done wasting time on testing a nerf on TC1... I'm with several others that are doing their maps NOW to actually get some value out of them. Unless there is a huge increase in loot quality from where we currently are on TC1; I see no point in treasure hunting when this thing goes live.

 

[Jelinidas]

I am plowing through all my 6s and 7s. Get what I can, while I can. I'll probably just trash the rest before TC goes live. This is what I have been saying, this loot revamp is a nerf at this point. Yes, it could change, but at this point I don't see it happening. Way to over thought.

For all the pom pom wavers, go look at the spreadsheets. Facts are facts. New chests are crap, and time is running out before its live.

 

[Theo_GL]

I am plowing through all my 6s and 7s. Get what I can, while I can. I'll probably just trash the rest before TC goes live. This is what I have been saying, this loot revamp is a nerf at this point. Yes, it could change, but at this point I don't see it happening. Way to over thought.

For all the pom pom wavers, go look at the spreadsheets. Facts are facts. New chests are crap, and time is running out before its live.

I also like that on a LVL6 map I can unravel the junk and get about 40-45 relic frags. With only 5 items - its going to be harder to get relics. Glad I have almost 5k now.

Just did a Lvl 7 map and got 57 relic frags. Nice!

 

[Whitewolf of *VK*]

so what your saying is instead of hoarding maps it might be best just to do em before this goes live

 

[petemage]

so what your saying is instead of hoarding maps it might be best just to do em before this goes live

Just burn them. @Kyronix doesn't even comment on loot anymore. This will just go live as it is.

 

[ShriNayne]

I really don't think there is enough time to make any massive changes to what has already been shown on test, I'm actually looking for another game already, which I feel very sad about.

 

[Uriah Heep]

LOL this post didnt last long on UO.COM, naturally

 

[Tina Small]

My loot spreadsheets are linked below. The property combinations make everything useless. Every single piece has properties on it that make no sense and therefore the properties that are there are shorted from what they could be or useful properties just don't show up. It's those darn "packages" of properties from the Shame loot upgrade being applied to almost every single piece. But even the pieces without one of the package labels on it tends to fall into similar patterns of "mishmashed" properties that are senseless.

For example, look at all the heavy armor pieces with the Mage Armor property and LRC on them. Why? Cloth and leather pieces from the Mage chests that are meddable, true, but almost every one has wasted properties on them like Reflect Physical damage, Lower Requirements, HCI, DCI, dex, and hit point properties, but no LRC and the resists are horrid.

The pieces with decent resists have nothing else on them to make you want to wear them.

And what happened to the hats that were in the Artisan chests? Gone.

The weapons pieces are the same horrible mishmash of properties that make things useless. Why all the stat properties on them instead of properties that would cause more damage? Why do so many of them have properties like Enhance Potions, Reflect Physical Damage, and LMC?

Everything is junk.

Publish 105 Weapons (Round 2)

Publish 105 Armor and Shields (Round 2)

 

[Cyrah]

This is like that dev that ruined provo years ago. Why again? There is too much icing on this T map cake K. Way too much.

 

[Theo_GL]

This is like that dev that ruined provo years ago. Why again? There is too much icing on this T map cake K. Way too much.

I don't even work there and I can pretty much summarize whats going on...

You have someone leading that is managing by function points (you deliver x enhancements per year) and they dream up stuff to put into production when none of them even have a clue as to what the playerbase wants or needs.

IF they were managed on game subscriptions instead of MBO's - they might suddenly care about what their work does to the game.

I honestly think they could do minimal coding to simplify and streamline all the content we have in the game now to make it more fun and accessable to the new player and actually increase the playerbase. Instead they just simply roll out change after change after change that add complexity and frustration. It doesn't matter to them because they are getting paid on quantity - not quality.

Send out a few surveys to your playerbase and see if they like the work you are doing. They never well because they know they are doing a horrific job. Yet, they get paid month after month.

Its really a shame because this game used to be vibrant but they slowly drove it into the ground with complexity and bloated content that is just plain dead.

Tell me when is the last time anyone donated to the museum collections anything other than gold? Perfect example. Interesting system. Horribly implemented. 80,000 shields for mace and shield glasses? Cmon. Thats like offering a car at Dave and Busters for 1 billion tickets.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Yeah I'd love to do o0ne of those customer surveys...I realize that Kyronix and Bleak are the ones caught in the middle, and are doing what they are told. And QA is an utter joke.

 

[Quickblade]

Guys if you think the game will die because of treasure hunting ... it will go live with probly another boost to loot, if not right now , another boost to the loot will be done after it goes live , when everyone suddenly realise its all junk. They have a small team of like 5 they are doing what they can. They listen to our feedback , but only few of us know how to deliver proper feedback in good format and without crying or complaining

 

[Keven2002]

They listen to our feedback , but only few of us know how to deliver proper feedback in good format and without crying or complaining

Well said! While I do agree with what has been said by others, let's try to keep this thread constructive in hopes @Kyronix or @Mesanna are looking to improve things.

Has anyone pulled Legendary items better than the piece I posted in my first post? At the very least has anyone pulled something they think is way better ("upgraded") over the stuff they are pulling from chests now? Has anyone consistently dug up chests with pink/blue/power scrolls ( I have not seen a single one in 25 tries).

I think my biggest frustration with this enhancement right now is that the end product (chest loot) doesn't seem to have actually been improved so far (almost 2 months) for the quality. So not only are we kind of getting the same mediocre stuff we get now, we are also losing several things we currently have in the chests we dig up now ( pinks/blue/recipes/Marties/etc). On top of losing out on the chest content, it's also seemingly finalized that we will need Remove Trap AND need to do puzzles. As I've said I'm not the biggest fan of the remove trap / puzzles idea (especially at GM) but if the end product is that we are now get a different avenue to get some sought after & usable loot then at least the end justifies the means.

My suggestion is to keep the chests exactly how they are today (keep all maps the same name etc) with the number of items in the chest and "other stuff" that comes in the chest. Then perhaps apply some logic that luck will have the potential to increase loot quality or just guarantee at level X through 7 each chest will have a legendary (it might end up on a piece of bone/plate armor but also might end up on a blacksmith hammer). Then replace mining with Carto and require remove trap. As for the puzzles, make that an option that when you use remove trap pops up that you could attempt to solve a puzzle to access a secret compartment in the chest for an even better item. I think this is a fair compromise for all. The vast majority get some kind of loot upgrade but still are able to benefit from treasure hunting if there's nothing in the chest they want, the remove trap piece still goes in (work on it is not wasted), and those who want to do puzzles can do so and be rewarded while others that are not good at them don't have to do them.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Kyronix said:

We have multiple changes in the works based on all the feedback people have provided. One of those is to address the loot. Look for an update to TC1 soon.

 

[MalagAste]

IMO the whole idea of the revamp is not to improve things it is to lessen what you can get so they can insure that the Powercreep is slowed to a halt by actually ruining the drop rate of things so that we go backwards not forwards in a loot improvement... this way they don't have to design better mobs or better more fun encounters they can do less...

And honestly it's getting annoying how IMO Mesanna is trying to stop anyone from getting anything unless you seriously play 24/7 and script everything. The rest of us will not be able to get much of anything decent... Take Tritons for example... you have to open over 100 to get a decent one? Who has time to farm that many beacons? Only those who don't work for a living, have no other priorities... and can just farm them all day every day... the average player certainly can't. I've manage to get at least 20 and none of them are very decent best one I have gotten was given to me, everyone I've opened has sucked.

This is the direction the game has been headed for a long time... the average player has to pay the scripter to get anywhere at all... makes you wonder who the scripters are and where that money is really going.

We ask for a small improvement and get a massive nerf. And all the while the pom pom wavers have the wool over their eyes and can't see what's really happening... probably because they are too busy ass kissing to actually play UO and see what's happening.

 

[Tina Small]

Jewelry's done in the spreadsheet above for armor and shields. A lot of the cache chests didn't have jewelry, so there's only 58 pieces. As far as the properties go, it's the same story as all the other randomly generated equipment loot. Almost everything is from the animated, arcane, mystic, or vicious packages and there are a lot of properties mishmashed together that don't make a lot of sense. Almost every piece has one or two "stat" properties on it (lots of mana increase and mana regen), nearly half have LMC. There are skills on 29 pieces out of the 58, but there's a lot of repetition in the skills so only 18 skills are represented: anatomy, archery, bushido (3), chivalry, evaluate intelligence (3), fencing, healing, mace fighting (4), magery (2), musicianship (2), mysticism (2), necromancy (3), ninjitsu (2), peacemaking (3), stealing, swordsmanship (3), tactics, throwing. Skill values are either +5 (18), +10 (7), or +15 (10).

It's all cookie cutter and it's all practically useless.

 

[Keven2002]

Kyronix said:

We have multiple changes in the works based on all the feedback people have provided. One of those is to address the loot. Look for an update to TC1 soon.

I hope this is true... if it is then it seems as if maybe we are getting some of our point across.

@Tina Small - To your point there are some silly pairings on items as you and I discussed a couple days ago (like -15 mage weap with no SC). I don't think I've seen a matching prefix & suffix on anything higher end from the chest loot (like Animated ITEM of Haste). If there is something in the logic to prevent this then it should be removed... but I don't think these matching type pieces should be the only ones we see. For example, some people (including me) would like a combo of things (like animated ITEM of Vitality or Mystic ITEM of Haste etc) to be on their items. Those will depend on the person but what I think we can all agree on is that (especially on a legendary item) the intensities on the pieces we see should be higher. On a legendary artifact I'm expecting to see either a bunch of mid intensity mods OR just a handful with all maxed out intensity... with the outside chance of an item having a bunch of mods with everything near max intensity (these are the types of items I'd work remove trap and figure out puzzles for).

 

[Lord Frodo]

I hope this is true... if it is then it seems as if maybe we are getting some of our point across.

@Tina Small - To your point there are some silly pairings on items as you and I discussed a couple days ago (like -15 mage weap with no SC). I don't think I've seen a matching prefix & suffix on anything higher end from the chest loot (like Animated ITEM of Haste). If there is something in the logic to prevent this then it should be removed... but I don't think these matching type pieces should be the only ones we see. For example, some people (including me) would like a combo of things (like animated ITEM of Vitality or Mystic ITEM of Haste etc) to be on their items. Those will depend on the person but what I think we can all agree on is that (especially on a legendary item) the intensities on the pieces we see should be higher. On a legendary artifact I'm expecting to see either a bunch of mid intensity mods OR just a handful with all maxed out intensity... with the outside chance of an item having a bunch of mods with everything near max intensity (these are the types of items I'd work remove trap and figure out puzzles for).

I just copied what he said on the UO Forums.

 

[Veldrane]

They have a small team of like 5 they are doing what they can. They listen to our feedback , but only few of us know how to deliver proper feedback in good format and without crying or complaining

When the feedback universally indicates that something is wrong (overly complex mechanics for no reason, the puzzles from remove trap, etc) then a good developer will take pause and start asking pointed questions to get good feedback. Look, five man team or not, they know that they’re implementing things the player base hasn’t asked for or want and repeating that “mistake” with every new feature implementation.

When we see this happen repeatedly, it’s a clear sign of a project manager (or in this case product manager) that is not managing their team or their product.

 

[Tina Small]

I'm doing a few more cache chests tonight. Just got this legendary artifact from a gold Warrior Cache chest dug up in Malas with 3500 luck and wearing +2 cartography glasses. Does anyone have a similar mystic platemail armor piece that's a legendary artifact obtained on a production shard to post for comparison purposes?

 

[bourne]

@Kyronix @Mesanna

Decided to do some side by side comparisons to see what we can currently get on prod shards vs what we are getting on TC1. See if you can correctly guess which server (Prod or TC1 these items came from). Items are in order 1 - 8.

View attachment 98036 View attachment 98037 View attachment 98038 View attachment 98039 View attachment 98040 View attachment 98041 View attachment 98042 View attachment 98043

Ready for the answers?

Item 1 is from TC1.

Item 2-8 are all from prod... FROM THE SAME CHEST (level 6)!!

Obviously these aren't all keepers but the mods on Prod are all the same if not better than the typical mods on TC1 (I've posted other places with other TC1 loot with similar mods). In addition to the 2-3 items from the chest I'd keep (jewels and mask) I also got 89 total items for 1249 turn in points, 30k gold, 6 essence, 2 refinements (fortification for dragon armor & defense for bone), another level 6 map, a Martie, and a pet treat.... AND I got 1000 turn in points for the map. This map was completed in Tram (no extra 1000 luck) with 3430 luck).

On the other hand, the axe in pic one came from an ARTISAN TROVE chest . The chest had a total of FIVE items!! I didn't see any dust when I opened the chest (only failed the circuit 3 times). Here is exactly what I got from the highest possible artisan treasure with 5830 luck (in Tram). No legendary items, no scrolls, no gold, no recipes, no resources, no materials, 124 turn in points on the FIVE items, and 750 points for the (level 7) map.

View attachment 98044

This TC1 loot is pathetic!! I've done some pretty thorough testing of the chests I'd do on TC1 and it's been absolute junk with one or two exceptions of a legendary item being ballpark what I displayed earlier (that is currently spawned in PROD!!!!! ). I'm done wasting time on testing a nerf on TC1... I'm with several others that are doing their maps NOW to actually get some value out of them. Unless there is a huge increase in loot quality from where we currently are on TC1; I see no point in treasure hunting when this thing goes live.

Thats an awesome amount of Luck you used 5830 ! How do you get 5-6,000 luck? What are the items you use? Ty in advance!

 

[Pawain]

I'm doing a few more cache chests tonight. Just got this legendary artifact from a gold Warrior Cache chest dug up in Malas with 3500 luck and wearing +2 cartography glasses. Does anyone have a similar mystic platemail armor piece that's a legendary artifact obtained on a production shard to post for comparison purposes?
View attachment 98071

What do you mean?

I bought this not sure of the Origin. Only a few mil.


The two pieces just got lucky rolls. We are doing spawns tonight. I have a bag of Artifacts that I saved.
The real loot was the Lt sash drop. Yay.

It seems you are just finding out that Legendaries can be crap also. They can get many rolls so you have to find a bunch possibly hundreds to get a keeper.

On yours the DCI is useless if you dont have wrest and Parry. The Phy resist is too low if the owner uses protection. LRC only 5%. I would put it in one of my Mage chests to keep forever. lol

 

[Pawain]

@Tina Small No need to fret.

Kyronix Posts: 466Dev
9:38PM Flag
We have some pretty substantial changes based on the feedback we have received going through internal review. Look for more information tomorrow on UO.com.

You get to start over!

Thanks in advance!

 

[Stinky Pete]

When the feedback universally indicates that something is wrong (overly complex mechanics for no reason, the puzzles from remove trap, etc) then a good developer will take pause and start asking pointed questions to get good feedback. Look, five man team or not, they know that they’re implementing things the player base hasn’t asked for or want and repeating that “mistake” with every new feature implementation.

When we see this happen repeatedly, it’s a clear sign of a project manager (or in this case product manager) that is not managing their team or their product.

To be fair, if the dev team gave everyone what they wanted, you'd all be invincible by now and cats would be able to be dyed glacial pink and ridable. PvP and fel wouldn't exist at all and powerscrolls would be obtained by killing mongbats.

Let's face it, y'all asked for better loot from t-maps. Legendaries could already be gotten from t-maps. But thats not good enough for y'all. Now you are complaining that the legendaries in the new chests aren't good enough, even though they are being made by the same RNG as everything else. Now I've been reading about how y'all want the loot generation system to start pairing item properties differently. It seems to me that you made this bed and now you're going to have to lie in it. The devs don't want any more power creep so I doubt they are going to change loot generation. You already complain about how underpowered crafting is. If you have it your way, it will be even more so.

I really didn't want to comment on this topic as I don't t-hunt. Someone needed to say it and after reading about this for weeks, I decided it's going to have to be me... Again. I'm prepared for my public forum lynching as I have grown accustomed to it by now. So flame on my UO brethren... Flame on.

 

[Tarragon Slayer/MZB]

I for one consider the loot an improvement. At present, I smelt and unravel 99% of the armor and weapons I find in treasure chests. The stuff I keep is hardly ever ideal, but it's not really bad either.
We all have different purposes in UO, which we've clearly shown in the [bcolor=rgb(16, 16, 16)]Pub 105 - Treasure Map Update Release 2 [Strict Guidelines for Posting] thread[/bcolor]. The contents of the future treasure chests fit with some of my goals in UO.
And there must be someone else too who finds the changes promising enough, because there's hardly a treasure map on sale anymore on the Atlantic vendors, at least not for a reasonable price.
I dread the puzzles but am hopeful for the rest.

 

[Khaelor]

To be fair, if the dev team gave everyone what they wanted, you'd all be invincible by now and cats would be able to be dyed glacial pink and ridable. PvP and fel wouldn't exist at all and powerscrolls would be obtained by killing mongbats.

Let's face it, y'all asked for better loot from t-maps. Legendaries could already be gotten from t-maps. But thats not good enough for y'all. Now you are complaining that the legendaries in the new chests aren't good enough, even though they are being made by the same RNG as everything else. Now I've been reading about how y'all want the loot generation system to start pairing item properties differently. It seems to me that you made this bed and now you're going to have to lie in it. The devs don't want any more power creep so I doubt they are going to change loot generation. You already complain about how underpowered crafting is. If you have it your way, it will be even more so.

I really didn't want to comment on this topic as I don't t-hunt. Someone needed to say it and after reading about this for weeks, I decided it's going to have to be me... Again. I'm prepared for my public forum lynching as I have grown accustomed to it by now. So flame on my UO brethren... Flame on.

You will now forever be labeled "fanboi" and "cheerleader", even though all you did was use logic.

 

[Veldrane]

To be fair, if the dev team gave everyone what they wanted, you'd all be invincible by now and cats would be able to be dyed glacial pink and ridable. PvP and fel wouldn't exist at all and powerscrolls would be obtained by killing mongbats.

Let's face it, y'all asked for better loot from t-maps. Legendaries could already be gotten from t-maps. But thats not good enough for y'all. Now you are complaining that the legendaries in the new chests aren't good enough, even though they are being made by the same RNG as everything else. Now I've been reading about how y'all want the loot generation system to start pairing item properties differently. It seems to me that you made this bed and now you're going to have to lie in it. The devs don't want any more power creep so I doubt they are going to change loot generation. You already complain about how underpowered crafting is. If you have it your way, it will be even more so.

I really didn't want to comment on this topic as I don't t-hunt. Someone needed to say it and after reading about this for weeks, I decided it's going to have to be me... Again. I'm prepared for my public forum lynching as I have grown accustomed to it by now. So flame on my UO brethren... Flame on.

You’re not wrong here; in fact you’re on the money. However, what I’m referring to is the overall pulse of the community.

Yes, the specific feedback is “omg we want better loot” and “X feature hasn’t aged well”. The dev team put out their ideas and once again ignored the overall pulse that the repeated revamping of features into a grindy mess isn’t best for the health of the game. This is where the product manager needs to step in and see what nudges to a feature can be implemented to bring it in line.

Look how long it took for them to admit that cannon reloading and the crafting that went into it was waaaaay overboard.

There is a happy medium here that curbs power creep and STILL bring a feature in line and doesn’t kill it.

This team needs to do better at controling that middle ground and it all falls on the product manager to steer the ship.

 

[Stinky Pete]

You’re not wrong here; in fact you’re on the money. However, what I’m referring to is the overall pulse of the community.

Yes, the specific feedback is “omg we want better loot” and “X feature hasn’t aged well”. The dev team put out their ideas and once again ignored the overall pulse that the repeated revamping of features into a grindy mess isn’t best for the health of the game. This is where the product manager needs to step in and see what nudges to a feature can be implemented to bring it in line.

Look how long it took for them to admit that cannon reloading and the crafting that went into it was waaaaay overboard.

There is a happy medium here that curbs power creep and STILL bring a feature in line and doesn’t kill it.

This team needs to do better at controling that middle ground and it all falls on the product manager to steer the ship.

Yeah, you're probably right. I quoted your post as it was the one that for some reason drove me over the edge. I am not the biggest fan of the devs by any means. I'm sure they could have done a better job of this. After reading your post again I can see that you aren't one of the whiney ones that my post was directed towards. What I said, however, still holds true and the people whining about loot can take it to the bank.

 

[petemage]

Maybe for @Stinky Pete it needs to be put different.

Items from 10 level 6 maps that can no longer be stolen (in bold). courtesy of @MissEcho

TOTAL of KEPT items (10 chests) and spawn loot

407815 Gold
1 Ingenious Map
6 essence achievement
6 essence control
18 essence of precision
6 essence of singularity
6 essence of persistence
6 essence of order
12 essence of feeling
1529 Barbed leather
374 Leather
42 silver scale
203 red scale
69 gold scale
95 black scale
55 green scale
2 mana Orbs
1 alacrity
5 x .5 scrolls transcendence
10 mini paragon artis
51 amber
39 citrine
33 star sapphire
28 tourmaline
67 gems
51 amethyst
37 ruby
14 diamond
8 sapphire
6 skeleton keys
194 bloodmoss
388 nightshade
344 suplh ash
87 spiders silk
401 garlic
351 black pearl
299 mandrake root
341 ginseng
354 demon blood
400 nox crystal
253 gravedust
280 batwing
469 pig iron
477 dragon blood
2 creeping vines
recipe - firey spellblade
recipe - mischief maker
recipe - ornate elven chest
3 tasty treats

Unless you find those people willing to chain mongbats on level 1 chests for tasty treats..

 

[petemage]

This whole idea of making loot "targetable" is also pretty mood. Instead of targetting 20 different types of chests like its on TC I currently just target level 6 maps in general on prodo and get all those items as well. I don't recall anyone asking that to be changed, but ok.

 

[Keven2002]

Thats an awesome amount of Luck you used 5830 ! How do you get 5-6,000 luck? What are the items you use? Ty in advance!

This was on TC1 and using some boots that @Tina Small gave me that have 2500 luck (not a prod item; created simply for testing). Only way to have 5-6k luck is to be in a max luck suit, with statue, with honor, in Fel (would be around 5400 luck). Otherwise, it's not possible to obtain that number (especially on a mage in tram).

I also don't think @Stinky Pete is way off base with the logic on if we always got what we wanted then everyone would be walking around taking no damage and could kill everything in 1 hit. I never asked for a treasure chest upgrade as I thought it was fine for what it was. The DEVs took on the task to "upgrade loot" so I've just given feedback based on the request they accepted.

If the DEVs decide to "evolve" the game by requiring an additional skill or puzzles or other hoops to jump through to get "upgraded loot" then I'd say I agree people shouldn't complain that much because the argument from DEVs would be that they are getting substantially better rewards by doing the work. The problem that I've noticed (as well as many others) is that the loot currently is AT BEST almost as good as what we have in Prod... so I see why people are complaining. I feel like the DEVs need to actually "upgrade loot" if they are going to make people jump through all these additional hoops. While I wouldn't go as far as some people that say they will quit UO because Thunting looks like it's being nerfed, I also don't agree with Stinky Pete & Khaelor with their zero sympathy approach and chalk everyone up as whiners. I'm pretty damn sure if you hired someone to upgrade you old chain link fence to a privacy fence; if the person showed up and put up a split rail fence that is smaller than the original and then put up a new chain link around that where the old fence was AND now you had to open two gates (and one is a puzzle lock )... you would be "whining" about what you got isn't what you asked for.

That said.... I'd like to stop focusing on the bickering between the whiners & cheerleaders and stay focused on the actual loot

I bought this not sure of the Origin. Only a few mil.

I think this is something I'd expect to be in treasure chests and I think that this piece is much better than the piece @Tina Small posted because it has several max intensity mods (along with decent resist). This is the type of stuff I think would be usable and along the lines of drops if you were to do the roof several times. All of the mods harmonize too so I think it's a fine piece. For a dexer, I'd hope to see mana & int replaced with stam & dex and then take off the LMC/LRC/Mage armor and have something of vitality or even mana. Hopefully more pieces like this will be in the next round of testing.

The other thing I think they need to address though is the "other stuff" that pops up in the chests. Again not sure if it's by design or not but I've seen almost no other stuff in chests during testing. My opinion is that overpowered pieces should NOT be in every chest but this needs to be balanced out by the "other stuff" that can be used or sold to compensate for time spent.

Has there been any actual detail as to what "substantial changes" would be? I'd hope they would have some kind of patch notes to let us know what was substantially changed so I can focus my time...

 

[Stinky Pete]

I'm pretty damn sure if you hired someone to upgrade you old chain link fence to a privacy fence; if the person showed up and put up a split rail fence that is smaller than the original and then put up a new chain link around that where the old fence was AND now you had to open two gates (and one is a puzzle lock )... you would be "whining" about what you got isn't what you asked for.

I like this fence analogy.

However, it's more like you had a fence that was perfectly fine and built by the best fencing company in the business, then decided on a whim to have your high school kid neighbor replace it with a new one. Now you are unhappy with it.

Imagine if the devs did what they should have done when asked for a loot upgrade for t-maps and just told everyone to **** off. Imagine the outrage then. I personally think it's kind of funny.

 

[Tina Small]

@Stinky Pete Here are images of weapons pulled from Warrior Cache chests on TC this week by a treasure hunter character that had either 3600 or 3500 luck on her suit at the time the chest was dug up. I would like you to take a good look at these and tell me which, if any, of these you would expect the average UO player to actually use instead of something they could imbue or reforge.

CHEST 1

CHEST 2

CHEST 3

CHEST 4

CHEST 5

CHEST 6

CHEST 7

CHEST 8

 

[Tina Small]

More weapons pulled from Warrior Cache chests on Test Center with 3500 or 3600 luck:

CHEST 9

CHEST 10

 

[Tina Small]

And now for some armor pulled out of Cache chests by a treasure hunter with 3500 or 3600 luck on her suit

These are from MAGE Cache chests:

CHEST 2

CHEST 3

CHEST 4

 

[Tina Small]

More armor dug up by a treasure hunter with 3500 or 3600 luck.

These are from Artisan Cache chests:

Oh wait. There aren't any. The only armor I pulled out of Artisan Cache chests was this thing that can't be imbued or reforged:


What happened to all of the hats that were in these chests in round 1? We don't deserve to get them any more? They were too overpowered?

 

[Stinky Pete]

More weapons pulled from Warrior Cache chests on Test Center with 3500 or 3600 luck:

CHEST 9
View attachment 98100 View attachment 98101 View attachment 98102
CHEST 10
View attachment 98103 View attachment 98104 View attachment 98105 View attachment 98106 View attachment 98107

You're barking up the wrong tree here. Personally I'd use any of them. I just wouldn't insure them. I'd lose it and go grab another one at random. I'm not your typical player and I know that but this stuff is no worse than anything you would have gotten before the "upgrade." I'd steal any one of them as well but when stealing weapons I always look for ones that have been used first.

 

[Tina Small]

These are armor pieces from Assassin Cache chests dug up with 3500 or 3600 luck:

CHEST 2


CHEST 11


CHEST 12


CHEST 13

 

[Keven2002]

@Tina Small - I agree all those weapons are pretty crappy (guess the substantial loot upgrade hasn't been put in yet lol). What I've said in previous post (and stick by) is that the "packages" segregating professions should be scrapped for the exact reason of those weapons you posted... not because the properties and mods suck or don't pair but because 99% (if not all) of the population does not use half those weapons because they are either too slow or don't have good specials (in the warriors chest at least); look at all of the viking swords, war maces, pikes, etc.

Let's take the viking sword for example since there were several of those (and obviously EVERY warrior uses them )... I don't think I'd EVER use a viking sword regardless because it's specials are crushing blow & paralyze. The only way I'd consider it, was if it was maxed out in every single property and even then it would just be more of a novelty item. Let's now take the pike (since I'm a sampire and use 2 handed weapons) which also has appeared in quite a few pics. It's specials are paralyze & infectious strike and it's damage is 14-17 base (vs double axe having double strike + whirlwind AND 15-18dmge)... so again I would never use this because the specials are horrible... it would need 70% lightning / 100% every leech / 20 HCI / 20 DCI / Balanced / 50% mana drain / 60% fatigue for me to even take it home with me.

I think the "packaging" of maps is going to create even more of a divide between the maps people do and less people will end up doing maps (or just do mage maps for instance). I think the goal of this should be to have more people want to do the new content (like plunderbeacons)... not have people ignore it and avoid it (including people that were doing the content before the publish).

Personally I'd use any of them. I just wouldn't insure them. I'd lose it and go grab another one at random.

Agree you seem like the atypical player but surely you can see that someone who wants the best chance at killing "stuff" would want the tools to do so. Going back to the fence example (now you own the fence company), if you were tasked to dig holes for the fence post and the common tool is a shovel but someone says your options will be a #2 pencil, a spoon, a plastic cup, or a toothbrush; do you think any of those would be viable options? Sure you can "use any of them" but they absolutely do very little in achieving your goal. Let's at least be realistic. I think Tina has a point in that we should at least have some kind of usable loot if the goal of the entire publish is to "upgrade loot". I can get that same stuff in more quantity now (so at least I can unravel or turn it in for points) so that doesn't really seem like an upgrade.
BTW I am 100% for scrapping the entire T-chest "upgrade" and sticking to what we have now... but if the Dev's sold the idea of "upgrade" then at least stand by it.

 

[Tina Small]

You're barking up the wrong tree here. Personally I'd use any of them. I just wouldn't insure them. I'd lose it and go grab another one at random. I'm not your typical player and I know that but this stuff is no worse than anything you would have gotten before the "upgrade." I'd steal any one of them as well but when stealing weapons I always look for ones that have been used first.

So the fact that the loot has been junk ever since the Shame upgrade and property "packages" have been imposed means we are just supposed to be happy to keep accepting the same junk, year after year, and especially after being given the impression that it has been improved?

We've been getting mostly garbage loot for years now.

My guess is that is because there has been a deliberate attempt to give crafted armor and weapons a reason to exist.

So maybe we don't get to have it both ways. Either crafted stuff shines and looted stuff is terrible and there's no reason to go hunting except at one or two places in the entire game and if you have a strangle hold on those, woohoo for you. Or looted stuff is way better than you can craft and people who enjoy crafting and selling/giving their stuff to other players feel like they have no reason to keep playing.

I don't know why anyone would use this new treasure chest loot on Siege unless they have no crafter and no gold to buy stuff from other crafters. If you use LRC, the loot pieces with LRC have ridiculously low resists and something could sneeze on you and kill you. The pieces with decent resists have no LRC, so you'd have to carry reagents and guess who would be waiting to steal them from you. You would have a hard time making up an entire suit made up just of loot and in the long run you'd be better off using imbued stuff and just keeping spare suits already made up for when you get clobbered.

So if the randomly generated stuff is no better than it is today, why bother doing treasure chests? The way things look now on TC, the other stuff that could be in the chests just isn't there, plus it's designed for it to be in the low-end chests that someone looking for a challenge won't be happy doing. And on Siege, if you can get a group together to do horde or trove chests, maybe you'd get a 105 or 110 power scroll if you do it in the Fel facet, but probably not anywhere else on Siege. Who cares if the whole shard has the abyss ruleset.

Siege will wither up and die if the SoT and SoA supply runs dry. No one will survive RoT without accelerated gains.

 

[Pawain]

@Tina Small
I never expected to find a weapon with a loot upgrade. Again, too many properties.
I asked him to make some bows as loot. I showed him what I can make. And said they need a couple of properties and a couple added properties like the Halloween rings.

Every weapon from any mob could drop legendary and we would still be imbuing.

I have asked to see a ranged or melee weapon that is better than what we can imbue. I have seen none.

 

[Stinky Pete]

@Tina Small - I agree all those weapons are pretty crappy (guess the substantial loot upgrade hasn't been put in yet lol). What I've said in previous post (and stick by) is that the "packages" segregating professions should be scrapped for the exact reason of those weapons you posted... not because the properties and mods suck or don't pair but because 99% (if not all) of the population does not use half those weapons because they are either too slow or don't have good specials (in the warriors chest at least); look at all of the viking swords, war maces, pikes, etc.

Let's take the viking sword for example since there were several of those (and obviously EVERY warrior uses them )... I don't think I'd EVER use a viking sword regardless because it's specials are crushing blow & paralyze. The only way I'd consider it, was if it was maxed out in every single property and even then it would just be more of a novelty item. Let's now take the pike (since I'm a sampire and use 2 handed weapons) which also has appeared in quite a few pics. It's specials are paralyze & infectious strike and it's damage is 14-17 base (vs double axe having double strike + whirlwind AND 15-18dmge)... so again I would never use this because the specials are horrible... it would need 70% lightning / 100% every leech / 20 HCI / 20 DCI / Balanced / 50% mana drain / 60% fatigue for me to even take it home with me.

I think the "packaging" of maps is going to create even more of a divide between the maps people do and less people will end up doing maps (or just do mage maps for instance). I think the goal of this should be to have more people want to do the new content (like plunderbeacons)... not have people ignore it and avoid it (including people that were doing the content before the publish).



Agree you seem like the atypical player but surely you can see that someone who wants the best chance at killing "stuff" would want the tools to do so. Going back to the fence example (now you own the fence company), if you were tasked to dig holes for the fence post and the common tool is a shovel but someone says your options will be a #2 pencil, a spoon, a plastic cup, or a toothbrush; do you think any of those would be viable options? Sure you can "use any of them" but they absolutely do very little in achieving your goal. Let's at least be realistic. I think Tina has a point in that we should at least have some kind of usable loot if the goal of the entire publish is to "upgrade loot". I can get that same stuff in more quantity now (so at least I can unravel or turn it in for points) so that doesn't really seem like an upgrade.
BTW I am 100% for scrapping the entire T-chest "upgrade" and sticking to what we have now... but if the Dev's sold the idea of "upgrade" then at least stand by it.

Like I've said before. Throw all of your stuff away. You'll then be thankful for any loot you come across. The problem isn't that the loot sucks, it's that the stuff that you have is better. With insurance and basically unlimited longevity of loot, you're always going to think that loot sucks.

Since we seem to love this fence analogy: If you have a motorized post hole digger and it breaks, you'll be happy that you also brought a shovel.

 

[Fridgster]

Am I correct in thinkin that level 3 maps now on prodo will become cache when the update goes live?

 

[Tina Small]

Like I've said before. Throw all of your stuff away. You'll then be thankful for any loot you come across. The problem isn't that the loot sucks, it's that the stuff that you have is better. With insurance and basically unlimited longevity of loot, you're always going to think that loot sucks.

Since we seem to love this fence analogy: If you have a motorized post hole digger and it breaks, you'll be happy that you also brought a shovel.

On Siege, I use barbed leather or horned leather armor my crafter made and imbued. I've imbued some weapons for others but don't have a dexxer or an archer there. Most anything I loot on Siege gets unraveled, other than jewelry that has only a few good properties and room to add something else. The things I bless are whatever talisman my crafter is wearing and whatever instrument my peace tamer carries. I don't think I've got anything blessed on my resource gatherer. On Mugen, my crafter, tamer, and resource gatherer are wearing leather or spined leather armor made and imbued by my crafter and looted or imbued jewelry and I think a talisman is blessed for the crafter and one piece of jewelry is blessed for the tamer.

 

[Tina Small]

@Tina Small
I never expected to find a weapon with a loot upgrade. Again, too many properties.
I asked him to make some bows as loot. I showed him what I can make. And said they need a couple of properties and a couple added properties like the Halloween rings.

Every weapon from any mob could drop legendary and we would still be imbuing.

I have asked to see a ranged or melee weapon that is better than what we can imbue. I have seen none.

It makes me wonder why we aren't all just saying stop dropping weapons for loot and just drop imbuing resources and runic tools instead.

 

[North_LS]

It makes me wonder why we aren't all just saying stop dropping weapons for loot and just drop imbuing resources and runic tools instead.

mainly because weapons drop with properties that aren't imbuable. while it may be extremely rare to get anything you'd ever use on a pvm character, theres certain combinations that are invaluable for pvp, and if you find one will net you a tidy 100M+ profit. to me, this actually keeps a pretty decent balance between looted weapons and crafted ones. if you want something very specific for whatever your sampire is fighting today, crafting is the way to go every time. if theres a couple mods that are very important, and one or two of them arent imbuable for your pvp character, and you dont really care what else is on it? loot is your only option. keeps both viable imo.

 

[grimiz]

@Stinky Pete Here are images of weapons pulled from Warrior Cache chests on TC this week by a treasure hunter character that had either 3600 or 3500 luck on her suit at the time the chest was dug up. I would like you to take a good look at these and tell me which, if any, of these you would expect the average UO player to actually use instead of something they could imbue or reforge.

CHEST 1
View attachment 98080 View attachment 98081
CHEST 2
View attachment 98082 View attachment 98083
CHEST 3
View attachment 98084 View attachment 98085
CHEST 4
View attachment 98086 View attachment 98087 View attachment 98088
CHEST 5
View attachment 98089 View attachment 98090 View attachment 98091
CHEST 6
View attachment 98092 View attachment 98093
CHEST 7
View attachment 98094 View attachment 98095
CHEST 8
View attachment 98096 View attachment 98097

Well hold on a minute - legendary weapons have been inferior since imbuing came out. I don't think anyone was expecting them to completely revamp the shame loot rules for weapons with the treasure hunting patch.

So in essence, nothing has changed for treasure hunting in regards to *weapons* - they were already trash before this.

Edit: der, I'm just repeating what others said. I should have read all the posts before I commented.

 

[Keven2002]

I have asked to see a ranged or melee weapon that is better than what we can imbue. I have seen none.

I'll agree to disagree here with you and @Tina Small . I have a couple of legendary weapons I use on a regular basis as they have much higher property weight then anyone could ever create. I have maximized DI/SSI/HCI on my suit/talisman so I enjoy the benefits of 80+ in every leech with the addition of mana drain/fatigue... that type of weapon has a slim chance to be crafted unless you burn through a ton of runics for reforging because you wont be able to imbue everything. All of them have come from the roof though and are few and far between up there. I don't PvP but I've seen weapons that are like Splintering 20% with 70% fireball and other mods.... you couldn't craft that either. That is the type of weapon, really just generally speaking, I'd hope to see in a chest that has "upgraded loot"... an item with more than 5 mods with at least half being near the upper end of intensity rating. These items do spawn in places like the roof & exodus so I think they should also spawn in the chests as well.

If you guys are talking about a complete rework of how mods spawn versus what is imbued I think that is a whole other topic.... one that I wouldn't bring up after we have seen how the treasure chests have gone lol.

Since we seem to love this fence analogy: If you have a motorized post hole digger and it breaks, you'll be happy that you also brought a shovel.

Maybe now you see the whole point .... the motorized digger is what the general public is asking for ("upgraded loot")! Ideally everyone wants the best tool they can get but I think people would be fine "settling" for anything between that and the backup shovel (worse case scenario it would be the same thing you have always used) but in no way should it be a downgrade!

 

[Theo_GL]

@Tina Small
I never expected to find a weapon with a loot upgrade. Again, too many properties.
I asked him to make some bows as loot. I showed him what I can make. And said they need a couple of properties and a couple added properties like the Halloween rings.

Every weapon from any mob could drop legendary and we would still be imbuing.

I have asked to see a ranged or melee weapon that is better than what we can imbue. I have seen none.

Its going to be hard to fix all the design mistakes made in this game in one fell swoop.

• The issues are - too many mods for items with nearly half undesirable (lower req, reflect dmg etc etc).
• Things wear out too slowly and essentially never break (my sampire has been wearing and reparing the same armor for 5 years or more).
• Replacing items with exact versions is only possible with imbuing.
• Property inflation (remember when a 25 DI weapon was standard and 40% was godly? now you can make 50% if you want).

If you really wanted to fix the game to make it more fun to hunt and find loot:

1 - Wipe everything
2 - Shorten the list of mods available on items
3 - Make things wear out or break must faster (IE you can repair an item 20 times and then it breaks)
4 - Spawn loot that is more consistent so you can replace the same loot via hunting
5 - Allow imbuing to replace properties (replace Luck with HCI or whatever)

This would make it such that you could craft a suit and reasonably replace a piece that broke by finding another like piece and replacing a mod with imbuing for example.

Imagine that loot dropped with something like this:

Mage Arms

Basic 10/10/10/10/10 Mana 2 LMC 4 LRC 10 Int 2
Strong 12/12/12/12/12 Mana 4 LMC 6 LRC 15 Int 3
Advanced 15/15/15/15/15 Mana 6 LMC 8 LRC 20 Int 4
Legendary 20/20/20/20 Mana 8 LMC 10 LRC 25 Int 5


Then you could always replace with something similar. Obviously you can change the resist spread or whatever but again - if my Advanced arms that I found and replaced LRC with Stamina via imbuing were to break - I would find or buy another one from loot and replace and go back to adventuring.

Simplify this crap and then spend all your development time on events, new things to explore, etc. STOP messing with loot, bods, crafting and other systems. Lets get back to an adventure game.

Look at damn Fortnite. Kids PLAY the game. They adventure over and over again - they lose all their stuff at the end of a game and don't care because everyone started with nothing every game. ITS FUN because you aren't sitting around in front of a spreadsheet trying to figgure out if this new gorget will fit into your suit.

I guarantte you UO isn't making $2.3B a year. It could be tho if you but the right minds on it.

 

[Keven2002]

Look at damn Fortnite. Kids PLAY the game. They adventure over and over again - they lose all their stuff at the end of a game and don't care because everyone started with nothing every game.

Hmmm I think this might be a bad example...have you seen the video of kids freaking out and raging when they get killed? Breaking controllers/smashing their TV etc? It's actually pretty funny and I'd encourage you to look some up because they are rather funny.

That said, I also disagree with the cookie cutter loot idea and making drastic changes to the current system. Have you seen what the are doing to Treasure Chest loot on TC??