T Hunting changes

[jack flash uk]

So with the not finished article t hunting changes coming up, what skills will be needed now?

Is Mining useless now?

Remove trap and detect hidden needed?

Will detect hidden reveal hidden chests like it does in dungeons?

To me it seems that it won't be possible to solo t maps now, needing lock picking detect hidden, cartography and remove trap, that's 400 skill points needed. without even thinking mage or chiv to get around, then what's left to hit and kill an a gaggle of Ancient Wyrms??

 

[ShriNayne]

Apparently the top 2 levels of the 5 new levels will be intended for groups. They say it's not set in stone but I don't expect them to deviate from the path they have started down which seems to require Remove Trap. I think they already gave up trying to foist Detect Hidden onto us too. Mining won't be necessary according to the other forum.

 

[jack flash uk]

yep. its a bit confusing, so in dungeons detect hidden reveals the hidden chests doesn't it? so maybe it will do something similar to t hunters now?

 

[Whitewolf of *VK*]

as of right now remove trap and detect hidden is not needed, they have said quit a bit now that is just in discussions, high lvl maps were never ment to be soloed anyway was always suppose to be a group activity.

 

[Drakelord]

I had a hell of a time decoding a easy map, gave up and exchanged it for another same level, then got the coors from a DL, ran to the location and had to use the step off in a direction and dig, went three directions before I hit the sweet spot, no mining on the char. dug it up killed the guardians picked the lock one click, cast TK and got black dust, you can read more over at Pub 105 - Treasure Map Update Phase I

 

[Lord Arm]

why do I have this feeling that some things will be changed that no one will like and that most would not or did not ask for.

 

[ShriNayne]

@Lord Arm and here was me thinking I was alone in that assumption?

 

[SteedaFLA]

From what I gather, even though the levels are being condensed, the monsters will stay the same across all facets. If you could solo a lvl 6 or 7, you can still do that with the proposed changes so far.

I tested it a little last night.

 

[grimiz]

dug it up killed the guardians picked the lock one click, cast TK and got black dust

Yes, let's destroy everything in the chest if they cast telekinesis instead of just not unlocking the chest. Great design decision. :/

 

[Drakelord]

Yes, let's destroy everything in the chest if they cast telekinesis instead of just not unlocking the chest. Great design decision. :/

I disagree with you, remove trap is not needed, however if they going to make it a requirement for t hunters then make it a requirement for thiefs as well when they run to eodon to pick up that white tiger, make it a requirement on every stealable, GM Remove trap to steal something. Now can you see I am quite bitter about this whole idea.

 

[Faeryl]

Logically, an exploding trap would damage the contents of the chest, so it makes perfect sense that that is what happens if you don't disarm the trap.

 

[Basara]

Logically, an exploding trap would damage the contents of the chest, so it makes perfect sense that that is what happens if you don't disarm the trap.

Except that it's never worked that way. Hollywood to the contrary, no one traps their hidden valuables to where they would be destroyed if the person recovering them sets off the anti-personnel trap protecting it (there was the classic case of Butch & Sundance blowing up a safe and the train car it was in (in the movie and in real life), but they were expecting a gold/silver coin payroll in the safe, not paper money, and used too much explosives by accident in the first place). The closest thing would be some of the safes from 100-120 years ago, that were booby-trapped with nitrogycerin so that someone attempting to BLOW the safe would destroy the paper contents (money and certificates), as a deterrent. And only things like banks and office safes had that, not mobile lockboxes, as far as I know. Nitro was far too dangerous for a movable container (and, once the stuff got old, even for a static vault).

The closest thing would be paper, glass, and/or cloth items being damaged or destroyed. Wood, stone and metal items would survive.

I believe the current state on TC is to try to get people to test Remove Trap a lot harder, and is not what is planned for the final implementation. It would not get a proper test on TC if people could simply bypass it from just a few items being damaged, after all.


I do think, however, that Telekinesis shouldn't work above a level 1 chest. But, then, I've always blown myself up when T-hunting with Gamlin.

 

[Basara]

For those not following the uo dot com thread.

• Cartography now used in place of Mining for dig distance (accidentally left off patch notes initially, edited later). This ha been part of the conversation going back to at LEAST February, in the earlier threads.
• Remove Trap vs. not using it is not working on TC as it will later. The destruction of the chest from not using RT on Test Center is (probably) meant to force people to test RT, as it would probably be implemented with bugs galore if people didn't stress test it better on TC. No confirmation as yet, but it's implied.
• Remove Trap will no longer require Detect Hidden.
• High Cartography will affect other aspects of the dig as well.
• New Level 4-5 will still be doable solo, if you could solo the old level 6s & 7s. However, there would be more items added to the chest if done as a party.
• Pinks (SoT) will now be in all facets' chests, level being as if dropped at a champ spawn on that facet (0.6 to 1.0 Fel, 0.1 to 0.5 others).
• PS up to 115 may be in some of the high level Fel chests. (though we're trying to persuade Kyronix to consider putting 105s and 110s in on the other facets).
• Alacrity Scrolls will still be in chests
• There will be themed contents in the chests, based on professions - and chests will be further localized for their facet.
• Where map levels are combined, the creatures will be combined or revised. For some maps, this is fairly simple (Tram & Fel already had some overlap on levels 4-5 = new level 3, though the overlap was greater between 3 & 4). Others, not so much, and a few would be OP at a lower level. Example given below.

An example of possible map guardian spawn mergers. (this is just MY GUESS - nothing official)

Trammel & Fel:
Current Level 2*: Orc Mages, Gargoyles, Gazers, Hellhounds, Earth Elementals
Current Level 3*: Liches, Ogre Lords, Dread Spiders, Air Elementals, Fire Elementals
Current Level 4*: Dread Spiders, Lich Lords, Daemons, Elder Gazers, Ogre Lords
Current Level 5: Lich Lords, Daemons, Elder Gazers, Poison Elementals, Blood Elementals

*Same spawn on all facets except Ter Mur - this is likely to no longer be true after the changes.

Combined, this would look like:

Trammel & Fel:
New Level 2: Orc Mages, Gargoyles, Gazers, Hellhounds, Earth Elementals, Liches, Ogre Lords, Dread Spiders, Air Elementals, Fire Elementals
New Level 3: Dread Spiders, Lich Lords, Daemons, Elder Gazers, Ogre Lords, Poison Elementals, Blood Elementals

I would expect that since there were already 3 items common between the old levels 4-5, that the two items common between old level 3 & 4 would be moved up to new level 3, especially as Ogre Lords are probably a bit much to inflict on level 2 maps. This would leave the new level 2 maps with 8 possible spawn types, and the new level 3 with 7 possible spawn types.

 

[grimiz]

I disagree with you, remove trap is not needed, however if they going to make it a requirement for t hunters then make it a requirement for thiefs as well when they run to eodon to pick up that white tiger, make it a requirement on every stealable, GM Remove trap to steal something. Now can you see I am quite bitter about this whole idea.

Eh? I didn't say anything about remove trap. To be clear: destroying the contents of a treasure chest because someone cast telekenisis on it is dumb (even in terms of UO lore - that spell doesn't damage anything else in the game).

 

[Petra Fyde]

I've not done much testing yet, but one thing I'll be exploring when I can is what guardians are on which levels for Eodon maps.

 

[CovenantX]

I did 1 Warriors horde map last night... the results seemed to be scaled down about 80-90% from what we have already.

chest contained 8 magic items ranging from Lesser Magic Item to Major Magic Item.... the guardians had higher quality loot than the chest did. I'll test a handful of Trove Maps sometime tonight but after the results of the Warrior's Horde map (previous lv 6) my expectations are very low.


Btw shouldn't it be Hoard? UO has a history of doing things this way. so w/e.

Edit: Also the maps title changes every time you log out/in... as well as on the first page over a Davies locker, the map at the bottom of the list changes each time you try to flip to a lower page.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

I had a hell of a time decoding a easy map, gave up and exchanged it for another same level, then got the coors from a DL, ran to the location and had to use the step off in a direction and dig, went three directions before I hit the sweet spot, no mining on the char. dug it up killed the guardians picked the lock one click, cast TK and got black dust, you can read more over at Pub 105 - Treasure Map Update Phase I
Kyronix told me that for now on test center you must have remove trap to open a chest - he said that's not the final product but that's the way it is for now on TC

Edit: I just noticed that @Basara also pointed this out in an earlier post

 

[Drakelord]

Eh? I didn't say anything about remove trap. To be clear: destroying the contents of a treasure chest because someone cast telekenisis on it is dumb (even in terms of UO lore - that spell doesn't damage anything else in the game).

sorry my bad I misunderstood, I blame old age

 

[Poo]

ive been saying for years they need to add RT to open chests and now they are.
i for one am super happy with the change.
and now they are taking off the detect hidden needed for RT that makes template fixing even easier.
i think as long as the loot is good in the chests this will be a good thing going forward.
not just a easy sleazy dig, pick, tele, empy chest, next.

 

[Quickblade]

I did a max new level ( Mage's trove in fel ) last night with 3 players in group with little group luck, was a bit disapointed : 90% of the 15ish items were low intensity quarter/gnarled staves with -20 or -15 mage weapon, lol. Is this what they categorise a Mage ? I did found a powerscroll I beleive in the chest but was apparantly bugged and labeled : deed , as a normal hued deed .

 

[CovenantX]

Maps seem much different today, from what the one I completed last night.

1 Malas Artisan Trove map = ~57k gold, ~29-34 of each small gem (new gem bag looks pretty good) 18 magic items, nothing above Major Magic Item quality.

1 Malas Ranger's Trove map = 56k gold, ~35-40 of each small gem (both contained in the gem bag) 18 magic items, all consisting of studded/hide armor, some jewelry & a bunch of bows, none of which were even lesser artifact or greater quality.... a greater artifact off of a guardian though...

1 Malas Barbarian's Trove map = 58k gold, ~35-40 of each small gem (both contained in the gem bag) 18 magic items, all except one consisting of Major Magic & Lower quality items, 1 prized Greater Artifact Bracelet.

The chest dug up on each of the 3 maps looked rusted, so that may be an indication of why the loot was such useless garbage.
"new" item types spawning: Elven Glasses & Circlet's spawning with random magic properties.
ML items are able to be found in T-maps now, at least in Malas maps, I have not tested any other facets yet.

Note: Today it seems you do not need to use Remove Trap, Detect Hidden, or even Lockpicking.... you are also able to loot the T-chest without killing the guardians first. the quality of loot seems to have been decreased quite a bit from what we have on live shards still though, the quantity of overall magic items seems to have been halved, at least for Solo maps anyway, I have not tried to do a map in party as of yet.

 

[MalagAste]

Heres my issue with lots of this... I have precious little time to spend in UO... last thing I want to do is "waste" time trying to figure out all this stuff and test it on a shard like TC1 that I never play on and does me no good in the long run...

I find it to be a waste of time to go there... Especially right now in the middle of a time based event when I would RATHER be spending what precious little time I have working the beacons to get what I need... for later publish when I can finally get a Triton... or 2 or 3 or 10 however many it's going to take to get one that is actually decent and worthwhile... So I need what time I have to be devoted to that end.

I do NOT want to have to add yet another useless skill to my template and work it up... especially one we all know is a PITA to work... granted you are taking away mining whoop de do... I didn't want to have to put mining on in the first place and already had to do that BS now I have to change once again to do another stupid skill because someone thought that was "cool"... to give it a use...

And finally as I have been reading so far the DEVs yes that's you @Kyronix still have ZERO clue what is or isn't good...

1st off... NO ONE uses 99% of the ML crap... Taint, Corruption and Dreadhorn mane... are it... all the other stuff is crap as NO ONE will ever make any of the crap that it's used for ever because those "artifacts" and I use that term loosely..... are NOT anything good... People make Scrappers... why? Because Mages are screwed when it comes to Imbuing... they are the ONLY class that is pretty much ****ed when it comes to Imbuing... they can't get slayers for **** and even crafting 100's of thousands of scrappers will never have 90% of the slayers that any other class can get with imbuing and talismans... why in the hell a spellbook can't be Imbued is beyond me..... it's seriously beyond time that they can... and I don't want to hear that ******** about then inscription will be a lost skill as you still need to have a base book to imbue in the first place and inscription gives a bonus to spell damage... so pull that out of your nethers... as a stupid excuse...

Finally the random crap that spawns on weapons makes 99% of them absolute garbage... I have NEVER found a weapon worth using from loot... sure some use splintering weapons but thats PvPers... I've never seen a weapon as loot that had anything remotely usefull...

First and foremost most weapons need SSI... unless they are fast weapons to begin with and every single bow MUST have SSI ...... no one uses any bow besides the composite, Yumi and plain bow... maybe to hit once with a crossbow for something like Mortal Strike or In an extremely rare instance, someone might use a Heavy for a dismount again only for PvP which let's face it 90% of the player base could care less about...(but then this would require you to carry another quiver with crossbow bolts) MUST have as high as possible Mana Leech...... MUST. Everything besides those is a bonus.. but if it doesn't have those 2 things SSI and ML it's garbage... No one is going to use a bow that is slow as hell and no one can use a bow that doesn't leech mana as they won't be doing **** with it after 2 shots. Again you'd have to actually play UO to know these things... look at weapons used at EM Events and then tell me what needs to be on a weapon to make it loot worthy..... seriously nothing in a chest is going to be useful... until you understand what people want/need on their things...

Most people want MR/LMC on their armor no matter what... mage or not... If it doesn't have that it's not worth looking at...

Most people who are mages need 2/6 casting at least... 100% LRC... max LMC etc... to even make it worthwhile... So finding jewelry it's a MUST that it has FC FCR on it..... who cares how much SDI it has if I can't get 2/6 casting I am not going to use it... that simple. No one is going to give those things up for any reason...

Seriously you have no idea what people want on things... again go to events and look at what people have and use... this will give you a clue as to what folk actually want on their stuff. Most loot is so random that it doesn't suit any class of character at all... it's always got some fatal flaw that it's missing to be useful...

like missing SSI or Missing ML or Missing FC/FCR .... or missing LMC, MR.... or something making it unusable... No one is going to use an item that weighs 50 stone... No one is going to wear anything that requires 125 str... NO ONE... a few folk might wear that antique crap but those are mostly mages and tamers not a dexer... that stuff is just trash... And no one is going to wear cursed stuff except people on Siege where that doesn't matter...

There are FAR too many mobs that loot you to wear anything that is not insurable...

 

[Uriah Heep]

Y'all done pissed Malagaste off...

But what she said is true. Bows without max or overcapped SSI are turnin points...

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

I did a few "Trove" Fel maps. Loot was just as good on the Guardians, as in the Chest.

Just a few FYI's"

1) None of the chests on TC are trapped or locked.

2) RT IS still tied to DT.

When I replaced my LP with DT (because I got a message that said I needed to), I tried to use RT, to see if I "found" anything different/better I was told I needed LP! No room on a tamer/T-Hunter for all of those skills, even running 795 skill

How, exactly, are we supposed to test this again?

 

[Uriah Heep]

From what i read, I think Kyronix wants everyone to use the set skill command to move the detect and remove up and down with some ofher skill as needed. Kinda like some peeps soultstone em off during a chest, but with TC ya can do it verbally, if I understood right

 

[SugarMMM]

Like I said in the Davies Locker thread.....

I know UO isn't real world but the word "cartography" means the study and practice of making maps.

Soo a cartographer can get you to the treasure map location but who will dig it up? Oh I don't know maybe someone with a mining skill?

I have a couple characters and know people that have treasure hunters with zero mining and they still get treasures. What if each level treasure needed a certain mining skill to dig it up?

But as others have said and I agree with it is why make these huge changes to character templates at this stage in the game?

Since I don't have a lot of playtime these days like I used to is now or after the patch to sell off my many 10's of 1000's of treasure maps and SOS's?

 

[MalagAste]

What the hell do I want to do that for?

My T-Hunter can take mining off after the thing goes live but that will mean I'll need to work up RT on him which quite honestly I don't want to do ... I already had to work up that useless mining on him years ago ..... now I'll have to grind out another skill I don't want.

Whatever... It's not making me "want" to play or test it... because honestly I don't want it... Unless it's going to give me something seriously awesome... which I'm not seeing right now..... I don't want to bother... I honestly have ZERO reason as of this moment to do T-Maps at all save for the pinks which I get far better doing the Trade Deals... But they are talking about adding PS to the chests... THAT alone might make me want to do T-Maps again...

but what I been talking about and I'm not hearing is having special nice items in there that you can ONLY get from maps and MIBs... special colored cloth, special dyes, special colored items... things like that people want... not the same old crap loot I get on mobs that sucks and no one will want or use... just smelt that crap or unravel it anyway... most that stuff is garbage and so totally borked it won't work for a mage and it won't work for a dexer... a dexer is going to want armor that will benefit him SSI, MR, Mana Increase, LMC, DI, DCI, good resists... that can overcap so they can withstand being cursed, sometimes it's ok to have SR but most times that's not necessary unless you are in Fel... EP is another good one... but I'm not going to drop below having capped HCI and such to get it... Not going to give up SSI to get it... Those things are a MUST on a Dexer especially on an archer... without them may as well forget it... weapons are too slow.

Mages want LRC, LMC, MR, SDI... things that matter... FC/FCR must be at cap no mage in their right mind is gonna do without them. Just not. They also want resists...

Everything else is a bonus... but those are a MUST. If it hasn't got them it won't be used. Once cap is reached then yes I'd consider wearing another piece without some of those things but for the most part I look at a piece and say well does it have MR? NO then it's trash... IMO... if yes then does it have LMC or LRC? is it medable? if not then trash for a mage but if it's not medable will it work for a dexer??? does it have good resist... is it something that will give me a bonus to LMC? If not don't care trash...

I mean really it's not hard to know what things are a must on stuff... all the artifacts all the items look at what is actually being used... 95% of all artifacts and such are never used... who the heck ever used a Dragon Lance or a cavorting club????? NO ONE... We could go through every arty there is and tell the DEVs exactly why it's a pile of crap and no one will use it and they come up with artifacts and wonder why we go.... WTF???? And then they tell us it's improved loot because it's more specified to class? Well that only works if your table for stuff has the things People actually put on weapons and armor... but they don't...

It's a rare day in hell when I find armor that is functional.. and I have yet to EVER find a weapon that is of any use at all.

1st off 99% of the weapons dropped NO ONE USES... either because they are too f'ing slow or they have **** specials... it's not rocket science. Either give more weapons better actual useful specials... make them faster... or just get rid of them because no one is going to use them.

As I said all you need to do is go to a few EM Events hidden... get some program that captures data and just check what peoples skills sets are, what they are wearing and what weapons they carry and spellbooks... this should give you 1/2 a clue what we want and what we use... and should be obvious what is crap. Because you won't see anyone with it...

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

From what i read, I think Kyronix wants everyone to use the set skill command to move the detect and remove up and down with some ofher skill as needed. Kinda like some peeps soultstone em off during a chest, but with TC ya can do it verbally, if I understood right

My templete (after "adjusting" on TC using "set skill") by dropping Lock Picking, Mining, and Meditation
Real skill +jewels
Cart-100
Focus 20 (jewelry)
Magery-90 + 25 (jewelry)
Med-5 +15 (jewelry)
Taming-120
Lore-120
Vet-85 + 15 (jewelry)
Detect Hidden-100
Remove Trap-100

795 skill ( I could pick up 10 skill somewhere by dropping Magery 10)

What is 100 Lock Picking supposed to replace?

This is a horrible way to "test". In my opinion.

 

[MalagAste]

I agree horrible way to test it... they need to get DH off remove Trap to actually have us testing this.

 

[CovenantX]

From what i read, I think Kyronix wants everyone to use the set skill command to move the detect and remove up and down with some ofher skill as needed. Kinda like some peeps soultstone em off during a chest, but with TC ya can do it verbally, if I understood right

I hope this is a temporary solution to a problem that shouldn't even exist. otherwise, it's way too much work for little to no progress. you'd be far better off doing something else, even if you didn't enjoy it (to make progression)....

I purposefully make my templates to solo and/or group activity, if a template is insufficient in reasonable solo situations, it's not good enough to be in a group either (IMO). Besides, with the population shrinking, it's becoming more and more difficult to build around groups even if you wanted to, Anyway...

my live shard T-hunter template

100 Cartography
90 Discord (+30 on jewels to 120)
120 Focus
100 Lockpicking
100 Magery
90 Music (+30 on jewels to 120)
120 Mysticism

Changed to: TC1 T-hunter template

100 Cartography
100 Detect Hidden*
0 Discord (+30 on jewels cause -laziness) -unusable
100 focus (-20 to make up the remaining points for DH/RT)
100 Lockpicking*
100 Magery
0 Music (+30 on jewels cause -laziness) -unusable
120 Mysticism
100 Remove Trap*

*which aren't even used on TC1 today according to the update, (at least I didn't have to physically use any of the 3 skills). but I kept them there because I wanted to see how much more difficult (time consuming) it would be to complete a map solo...
-Discord speeds things up considerably when it comes to killing mobs with pets and/or summons... it really takes what seems like f***ing forever for an Rising Colossus without Discord.

-I'm not impressed with ~3-5 minute longer maps (due to required template changes for an RC to kill Malas map spawn without discord.....) for even lower quality loot. -if I wanted that I'd farm just about anywhere other than Shadowguard.

The whole Chest quality is just layered RNG, if the devs read almost any posts about... any aspect of the game? over the last several years, they'd know players want as little of this as possible. Clearly they're not paying attention to that very important detail.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

My "live" Tamer/T-Hunter can solo ANY of the current maps available. By solo, I mean by himself. No other account logged for support, or anything. I CAN "adjust" him by removing lockpicking, and swapping it for Remove Trap, (may need help with the "Trove" maps in Eodon, I'm talking about YOU T-Rex) LOL. But if that is what @Kyronix wants the end result to be, let us test THAT. Instead of currently needing RT, DT, and LP. I get the feeling this whole thing wasn't very well thought out.

 

[King Greg]

• PS up to 115 may be in some of the high level Fel chests. (though we're trying to persuade Kyronix to consider putting 105s and 110s in on the other facets).

Only way i'd be in support of this is if they weren't bindable.

 

[Swordsman]

I can accept adding the RT skill to my template if they improve the looting on all level of maps. The lv2 & 3 maps loot quality right have no significant improvement. If the skills are complicated but loots have no significant improvement, I will say no.

 

[kaio]

I never understood the overloading of t-chests.
We get SA with imbuing mats, everyone goes to underworld to hunt for essence.
Then they add essence to T-chests, and no one goes to underworld, instead they make T-hunters.
They add pardons to T-Chests, everyone is happy, then they **** T-hunters by adding royal-pardons to VvV.
They gave us imbuing, everyone was happy. Then they gave us reforging, everyone was still somewhat happy, then they gave us new global loot, and screw over all the crafters.
And now they completly ****ed T-maps. Loot is completely garbage, people have to change templates. Let me spell it out for you, no one frekking likes to train any skill in this game anymore, its not the same great game experience it was back in 1997.
Adding powescrolls to Chests, is a complete stupid idea.
Powerscrolls is the only thing that holds fel together, removing them, and a lot of spawners/pvper's will have no reason at all to go to felluca.
Here is an idea, how about the DEVS spend 2 months actually playing the game, and after that, then maybe start to goof around and change things.
If this is too much to ask for, how about you hired some people to make the hard work for you, instead of hiring some EM on a dead shard where 2 local players show up, and the rest are from other shards.

 

[petemage]

high lvl maps were never ment to be soloed anyway was always suppose to be a group activity.

Yet I bet 90% of them were done by solo hunters like me or the other hunters I know. Guess we all did it wrong and I feel happy they stop this now.

 

[MalagAste]

I never understood the overloading of t-chests.
We get SA with imbuing mats, everyone goes to underworld to hunt for essence.
Then they add essence to T-chests, and no one goes to underworld, instead they make T-hunters.
They add pardons to T-Chests, everyone is happy, then they **** T-hunters by adding royal-pardons to VvV.
They gave us imbuing, everyone was happy. Then they gave us reforging, everyone was still somewhat happy, then they gave us new global loot, and screw over all the crafters.
And now they completly ****ed T-maps. Loot is completely garbage, people have to change templates. Let me spell it out for you, no one frekking likes to train any skill in this game anymore, its not the same great game experience it was back in 1997.
Adding powescrolls to Chests, is a complete stupid idea.
Powerscrolls is the only thing that holds fel together, removing them, and a lot of spawners/pvper's will have no reason at all to go to felluca.
Here is an idea, how about the DEVS spend 2 months actually playing the game, and after that, then maybe start to goof around and change things.
If this is too much to ask for, how about you hired some people to make the hard work for you, instead of hiring some EM on a dead shard where 2 local players show up, and the rest are from other shards.

The reason no one goes to fel isn't Powerscrolls... it's PvP is borked and full of cheaters... no one wants to deal with them. You don't see people around doing the spawns because they are AVOIDING times and places where you might find them... they are still getting scrolls...

Putting them in chest will NOT harm this... at all or in the slightest... infact you might actually see more people wandering around FEL... there is a shocking concept for you...

 

[kelmo]

What skills would you use for a two-person treasure hunting team? How would ya distribute the skills.

 

[Uriah Heep]

If the loot is no better than what I've been reading, the question is, how would you divide it to make it worthwhile? lol

 

[Delores D]

I have on my home shard less than 30 cartography, Detect hidden 85. I put those skills on my char on test and went to find a map. I could not read any of the 5 that I got. Two were to hard, 3 of them said something about waiting to decode. I had to set the carto to 75 to be able to read 2 of them. So if you have to grind out to 75 carto, where now at 30 I can read level ones, whats the purpose? I don't want to be making a bunch of maps and not get anything out of them.

 

[kaio]

The reason no one goes to fel isn't Powerscrolls... it's PvP is borked and full of cheaters... no one wants to deal with them. You don't see people around doing the spawns because they are AVOIDING times and places where you might find them... they are still getting scrolls...

Putting them in chest will NOT harm this... at all or in the slightest... infact you might actually see more people wandering around FEL... there is a shocking concept for you...

In all fairness i think i see more people in fel, than i see people in underworld, trammel,tokuno, iishenar.
We saw what happend when our clever dev boys tossed essence in t-chests,i'm pretty sure the same will happend to champ spawns, now no-one has any reason to go to fel at all.
The mechanics for champ-spawns in fel works very well, high risk, high reward (unless u do them on a dead shard). If you take that chain away, then there is not much left to do, besides some yew pvp, roof, doom,t-hunts, idocs. The supply chain will also break, because pvp'ers will eventually quit, and when that happends all the trammel folks cant sell pvp gear to the pvp population, because there is none left.
Cheating is another thing, and that wont go away either, but we must let the pvp'ers have something to fight for,else they quit its that simple.
I know that alot of players want an easy source for powerscrolls, because of the pet revamp. but you need to see the bigger picture.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Well the bigger picture is that there are way way more PvM'ers than PvP'ers. So, common business sense in any other industry, would dictate that they listen to the majority of their customers. For some reason, UO didnt have this in the business classes. Half of the PvM'ers close down, its gonna hurt way more than if the dozen or so pvp'ers that are left leave.

Flame away, but I won't change my mind on that

 

[Basara]

• PS up to 115 may be in some of the high level Fel chests. (though we're trying to persuade Kyronix to consider putting 105s and 110s in on the other facets).

Only way i'd be in support of this is if they weren't bindable.

Apparently you have absolutely no idea how scrollbinding works.

There's around 40 different PS skills, not counting the 4 from crafting and fishing quests. Let's do the math.

It can take 8, 10 or 12 maps to make the next biggest one.

Starting with 105s, to make a 120, takes 960 105 scrolls, 120 110s (If I remember correctly), or 12 115s.

If the scroll type is not tied to the "theme" of the map, it would take, on average, 35 to 40 THOUSAND T-maps to get enough 105 PS at random for a single 120 of any given skill - and that's if you were GUARANTEED a PS every chest. Doing chests that give 110s would take 3 to 4 thousand maps. Doing chests that give 115s, would be around 400 to 800.

If the theme affects the PS type, then the numbers would be about 1/5 less. But, even then, if the scroll chance wasn't 100%, you'd have to multiply by the reciprocal of the chance (1/4 chance would be multiply by 4, etc.)

You're worried about THAT???? On most shards, it would STILL be easier and quicker just to pick up 105s and 110s OFF THE FLOOR IN LUNA dropped by spawners to bind, than do T-maps from them.

Do you even MATH?

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

Apparently you have absolutely no idea how scrollbinding works.

There's around 40 different PS skills, not counting the 4 from crafting and fishing quests. Let's do the math.

It can take 8, 10 or 12 maps to make the next biggest one.

Starting with 105s, to make a 120, takes 960 105 scrolls, 120 110s (If I remember correctly), or 12 115s.

If the scroll type is not tied to the "theme" of the map, it would take, on average, 35 to 40 THOUSAND T-maps to get enough 105 PS at random for a single 120 of any given skill - and that's if you were GUARANTEED a PS every chest. Doing chests that give 110s would take 3 to 4 thousand maps. Doing chests that give 115s, would be around 400 to 800.

If the theme affects the PS type, then the numbers would be about 1/5 less. But, even then, if the scroll chance wasn't 100%, you'd have to multiply by the reciprocal of the chance (1/4 chance would be multiply by 4, etc.)

You're worried about THAT???? On most shards, it would STILL be easier and quicker just to pick up 105s and 110s OFF THE FLOOR IN LUNA dropped by spawners to bind, than do T-maps from them.

Do you even MATH?

The 960 number IS correct. 8x12x10=1 120

 

[Basara]

In all fairness i think i see more people in fel, than i see people in underworld, trammel,tokuno, iishenar.
We saw what happend when our clever dev boys tossed essence in t-chests,i'm pretty sure the same will happend to champ spawns, now no-one has any reason to go to fel at all.
The mechanics for champ-spawns in fel works very well, high risk, high reward (unless u do them on a dead shard). If you take that chain away, then there is not much left to do, besides some yew pvp, roof, doom,t-hunts, idocs. The supply chain will also break, because pvp'ers will eventually quit, and when that happends all the trammel folks cant sell pvp gear to the pvp population, because there is none left.
Cheating is another thing, and that wont go away either, but we must let the pvp'ers have something to fight for,else they quit its that simple.
I know that alot of players want an easy source for powerscrolls, because of the pet revamp. but you need to see the bigger picture.

You know, trying to compare the number of people at a spawn being raided in Fel, to activity elsewhere, is like claiming that the only time you see firemen is when there's a fire, and that they don't exist when there's not one. IF you purposely skew your sample, you can make the data say the sky is paisley with purple polka dots.

I routinely go with a group to do Medusa, with 5-8 people. Underworld, checked.
I typically see more people in NEW HAVEN, than I do anywhere in Fel, unless I stumble onto an active spawn past 10 candles. Trammel checked.
We've had trouble sailing in Tokuno lately where we get to fighting a Plunderbeacon to find someone else is hitting it from the other side. And, we were doing pirates several times a week for the last year. Tokuno checked.
Ilshenar, you might have a point, but most of it has been from the damage done since the start of the return of Blackthorn arc. A lot of us used to train and farm in central ilshenar, Exodus got ruined, etc. Though, some of us still do Ilshenar champs, and I even mine there looking for paragon ore elementals from garg picks.

 

[Basara]

The 960 number IS correct. 8x12x10=1 120

Thanks - I couldn't remember the exact order of the 110s so made it increasing. Still doesn't change the base numbers much for the higher PS binding.

People complaining about "the threat to champs from binding non-champ-acquired scrolls" sound, to me as a math major, like the people complaining about "X item has Substance A in it and needs to be banned for health reasons", then you look at the math, and realize someone would have to eat 100 kilos (220 lbs) of the offending food EVERY DAY to approach the top end of the trace substance, and toxicity would require a ton.

You know, like the case where the woman was accused of poisoning her children with antifreeze, when it was actually a genetic defect that caused their bodies to improperly metabolize a common food, with the results resembling a byproduct of digesting antifreeze. The prosecution was adamant, despite that the woman was searched before being with her children in a supervised visit, but to get the metabolites the tests were showing, she would have had to have force fed them twice their weight in antifreeze to get that result - in an hour.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

If the loot is no better than what I've been reading, the question is, how would you divide it to make it worthwhile? lol

Good point - I don't mind a team experience like Scalis where everybody goes into the chest and loots or hopes for a drop - but there's no way I'm going to the trouble and conflicts of trying to decide who gets what out of a chest - my group would be my own two accounts who won't argue with each other

 

[Faeryl]

What my group of friends did during idocs years ago to divide loot was to use a dice and cup. We'd each roll, and after the one who found the idoc took an item (finders got first pick, this could translate to either the treasure hunter or originator of the map getting first pick, though not necessary), the highest roll would take an item of their choice, then second highest, then third, etc. And we'd just repeat in that order until all items were divided.

If you had a small collection of items from several maps, and a group you trusted to not steal, that would be a good way to divide stuff and avoid arguments. At least it worked in my experience.

 

[Fridgster]

Good point - I don't mind a team experience like Scalis where everybody goes into the chest and loots or hopes for a drop - but there's no way I'm going to the trouble and conflicts of trying to decide who gets what out of a chest - my group would be my own two accounts who won't argue with each other

I seem to argue more when I use my own accounts as a group... course I'm funny that way. (Nickel to anyone who can tell me what character on an 80's tv series said that all the time)

 

[Lord Arm]

ive been wondering a few things
- I don't understand why the devs are combining the levels of some maps, can anyone help me understand why and how this will be better, not just a waste of time.
- not needing mining but having to have remove trap is fine. just wondering if I will be insta killed by high level traps/maps if I fail to remove and have to have another account/char there for a rez lol.
- I don't like the idea for there being wood, ingots and leather in the chests, there are enough resources around already. I also don't feel ps are needed in chests. I think pinks and blue scrolls are good enough.
- loot in the chests/monsters seems to have been nerfed, more than once. the 12, 14 or more mods pieces with high resists don't seem to be accessible anymore. this has happen many times where they make something too good/powerful then nerf it, or they give out like candy and in a few months is semi worthless to do.
- there are too many unknowns right now to worry. these are just my opinions and they mean nothing

 

[Yadd of Legends]

just wondering if I will be insta killed by high level traps/maps if I fail to remove and have to have another account/char there for a rez lol.

So far it seems that not using remove trap will just destroy everything in the chest