Modern Sampire

[Merth]

All the math alone boggles my mind lol

 

[Ford Taunus]

By not having chiv, I can always have both. Having hit spell or HLA on a weapon isn't worth 90-120 skill points to me.

There's many ways it can be done. I just want to point out that chiv isn't required (unless there's no slayer).

Ahh yeh. Indeed chiv is not required for all warrior templates (As swordsmanship is not required for fencing template, bushido is not required on double slayer EOO template, anatomy is not always required, parry is not always required, RS in not always required, necromancy is not needed for "dragoon" ets templates, bushido is not required for double slayer EOO templates.. I think Tactics is only "requirement" for warrior build? As taming and animal lore is "Only requirements" for tamer build?

But chivalry is indeed required for this build.

Just because this is high-end boss kill template and there are lot bosses without slayer as:
Travesty, Paroxymous, Meraktus the Tormented, Dragon Turtle, Ozymandria, Neira, Twaulo, Ilhenir the Stained, Flesh renderer, (Also: as you cannot "double" feyslayer with Cameos EOO really helps with Dread horn, Lord Oaks and Silvani and Lady Melisande).. and many more.

Leavin chivalry out means that I must leave a big part of bosses out from my killing list. . So I take chiv in .. and when it is in. I take full benefits from it.

FYI:
(Lady Melisande is a real pain even with EOO, and I currently try to find out an efficient way to solo her, now she easily kills me if anything goes wrong. Meli is easy to solo with ranged/spell weaving build.. but melee is a real pain!)

Here is my lumber jacker build for Doom:
Bushido 80
Anatomy 120
Swords 120
Tactics 120
Lumber 100
Necro 70+29=99
Resisting 110+10=120
(Indeed good on it own work....but has nothing to do with modern sampire.)

 

[Maximus Neximus]

Here is my lumber jacker build for Doom:
Bushido 80
Anatomy 120
Swords 120
Tactics 120
Lumber 100
Necro 70+29=99
Resisting 110+10=120
(Indeed good on it own work....but has nothing to do with modern sampire.)

I think you missed my post on page 2. Since this is about maxing ability I will try to save you some skill points...

I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I just have one issue and that's wasted skill points. In Doom you run with 100 LJ and it's overkill.

For the damage increase cap (300 cap)
Damage Increase for items = 100 *** Divine Fury spell will add up to 20% damage increase as part of this 100 cap
120 Tactics then (120/1.6) + 6.25 = 81.25
120 Anatomy then (120/2) +5 = 65
150 Strength then (150*.3) +5 = 50
For a total of 296.25 which means its impossible to hit 300 here unless you have LJ.
20 LJ (Skill Level/5) *if below GM* will add 4.0, reaching the 300 cap.

Unless you're running really low DI on items or low strength you can use those points elsewhere and your damage won't be any lower. For special move consideration, I personally would drop LJ and add parry and/or bump bushido higher since it'll also help with defense.

Assuming that you have 100 DI from items,120 Tactics, 120 Anatomy, and 150 strength;

You are at 326.25 of a 300 cap. You can lower lumberjack to 20 and still have the exact same damage increase. That's 80 skill points free for bushido and/or parry.

 

[zieglers]

I think Chiv is required. There are very few spots deserve farming nowadays and roof is one of them, where you will need EOO for Anon and Ozymandias.

 

[zieglers]

FYI:
(Lady Melisande is a real pain even with EOO, and I currently try to find out an efficient way to solo her, now she easily kills me if anything goes wrong. Meli is easy to solo with ranged/spell weaving build.. but melee is a real pain!)

That was what I was thinking in the first place when I saw your template. With a traditional sampire I always cast DF to counter nausea but obviously your template is not able to do this. But then I though wth why would you bother with her with this template. Just bring a tamer for her.

 

[Maximus Neximus]

I think Chiv is required. There are very few spots deserve farming nowadays and roof is one of them, where you will need EOO for Anon and Ozymandias.

I agree that chiv is required for the roof.

 

[Ford Taunus]

That was what I was thinking in the first place when I saw your template. With a traditional sampire I always cast DF to counter nausea but obviously your template is not able to do this.

Very interesting....DF gives SSI15 and Nause gives SSI -60.. I cast also DF continuously. What is your weapon setup to solo Melisande because you get it sound easy? (Because I think it is harder than Roof to solo with melee, yes my Tamer solo it super fast.. and my archer solo it super fast.. but we talk now about melee build)

would you bother with her with this template. Just bring a tamer for her.

Yeh tames can solo it super fast. Archer solo is super fast..... But I take Meli as a challenge

 

[Ford Taunus]

I think you missed my post on page 2. Since this is about maxing ability I will try to save you some skill points...

Assuming that you have 100 DI from items,120 Tactics, 120 Anatomy, and 150 strength;

You are at 326.25 of a 300 cap. You can lower lumberjack to 20 and still have the exact same damage increase. That's 80 skill points free for bushido and/or parry.

Seems like you have missed totally how DI has calculated Tactics have nothing to do with DI 300 cap, Anatomy have nothing to do with DI 300 cap, lumberjack have nothing to do with DI 300 cap... and 150 strength has nothing to do with DI 300 cap.

Tactics 120 gives ALWAYS DAMAGE more than Tactics 100
Anatomy 120 gives ALWAYS DAMAGE more than Anatomy 100
Lumberjacking 100 gives ALWAYS DAMAGE more than Lumberjacking 80 (If axe used)
150 strength gives ALWAYS DAMAGE more than ST 140

So in short: Tactics, Anatomy, Lumberjacking, and str are NOT counted on DI 300 cap.. They give always bonuses even if you have hit basic DI 300 cap.
If you think that "100 DI from items,120 Tactics, 120 Anatomy, and 150 strength" gives capped damage... have you ever thought thing like DI from slayers? DI from Bushido (Perfection) and DI from EOO?

Now my question is: How you can solo high ended bosses with builds that are calculated that way?

 

[zieglers]

What is your weapon setup to solo Melisande

Double axe with 30ssi, plus 35ssi from suit, plus 15ssi from DF to counter nausea.

 

[Ford Taunus]

Double axe with 30ssi, plus 35ssi from suit, plus 15ssi from DF to counter nausea.

Ahh. I thought u trick SSI somehow without SSI from the weapon or some kind special "tailored weapon"... But seems that you go with basic set
In my situation: I use also a weapon with SSI + DF + SSI from a suit that I got +15 after nausea with Double Axe and +0 With Daesho.
I have tried with slayer and without slayer I have also tried HCI +30 to wep and lightning strike... but SSI on weapon eats too much leeches and takes one slot IMO.
Even lightning strike / and HCI from weapon combination seems in effective. It is still too hard HCI -60 combined with SSI -60 hit too hard for me.
What you might do different.. I would love to know.

 

[Maximus Neximus]

Seems like you have missed totally how DI has calculated Tactics have nothing to do with DI 300 cap, Anatomy have nothing to do with DI 300 cap, lumberjack have nothing to do with DI 300 cap... and 150 strength has nothing to do with DI 300 cap.

Tactics 120 gives ALWAYS DAMAGE more than Tactics 100
Anatomy 120 gives ALWAYS DAMAGE more than Anatomy 100
Lumberjacking 100 gives ALWAYS DAMAGE more than Lumberjacking 80 (If axe used)
150 strength gives ALWAYS DAMAGE more than ST 140

So in short: Tactics, Anatomy, Lumberjacking, and str are NOT counted on DI 300 cap.. They give always bonuses even if you have hit basic DI 300 cap.
If you think that "100 DI from items,120 Tactics, 120 Anatomy, and 150 strength" gives capped damage... have you ever thought thing like DI from slayers? DI from Bushido (Perfection) and DI from EOO?

Now my question is: How you can solo high ended bosses with builds that are calculated that way?

I'll go ahead and post this again since the information doesn't appear to be common knowledge...


For the damage increase cap (300 cap)
Damage Increase for items = 100 *** Divine Fury spell will add up to 20% damage increase as part of this 100 cap
120 Tactics then (120/1.6) + 6.25 = 81.25
120 Anatomy then (120/2) +5 = 65
150 Strength then (150*.3) +5 = 50
For a total of 296.25 which means its impossible to hit 300 here unless you have LJ.

20 LJ (Skill Level/5) *if below GM* will add 4.0, reaching the 300 cap.
GM LJ (Skill level/5) + 10 = 30
***It appears that LJ will take you above the 300 cap. Needs further testing to see true numbers***

For the damage modifier cap (300 cap) *aka damage multiplier*
You always have 100% damage Modifier. You will always swing for 100% of your base damage before resists are calculated. From there, you can add these on top of that.
Specific Slayer (+200%)
Super Slayer (+100%)
Perfection (+100%) ***10% per level (hit), maxed at 100%
Enemy of One ( up to 82%) ***based on chiv skill and (possibly) karma
Honor Self (25%)
Consecrate Weapon ( up to 16%) ***based on chiv skill and (possibly) karma
Bard Song Inspire (up to 15%) ***based on bard skills
Some Quivers (10%) *** I haven't tested. But it only works on archery weapons per Tabin
Grapes of Wrath (10%)
Level 3 Weapon Mastery (5%)

 

[Ford Taunus]

I use 120chiv+divine fury for my bower&thrower, not sampire. The freeze while casting is bad for sampires.

Hmm u said this earlier?

 

[zieglers]

Hmm u said this earlier?

I don't rely on all the bonus from DF for my sampire, except for fighting lady Mel when I have to deal with nausea.

What you might do different.. I would love to know.

You may also want to try using a maul plus a shield. Fighting Lady Mel with a sampire is more about survivability than effectiveness so 30SSI on weapon should be a must.

 

[Ford Taunus]

I'll go ahead and post this again since the information doesn't appear to be common knowledge...


For the damage increase cap (300 cap)
Damage Increase for items = 100 *** Divine Fury spell will add up to 20% damage increase as part of this 100 cap
120 Tactics then (120/1.6) + 6.25 = 81.25
120 Anatomy then (120/2) +5 = 65
150 Strength then (150*.3) +5 = 50
For a total of 296.25 which means its impossible to hit 300 here unless you have LJ.
20 LJ (Skill Level/5) *if below GM* will add 4.0, reaching the 300 cap.
GM LJ (Skill level/5) + 10 = 30


For the damage modifier cap (300 cap) *aka damage multiplier*
You always have 100% damage Modifier. You will always swing for 100% of your base damage before resists are calculated. From there, you can add these on top of that.
Specific Slayer (+200%)
Super Slayer (+100%)
Perfection (+100%) ***10% per level (hit), maxed at 100%
Enemy of One ( up to 82%) ***based on chiv skill and (possibly) karma
Honor Self (25%)
Consecrate Weapon ( up to 16%) ***based on chiv skill and (possibly) karma
Bard Song Inspire (up to 15%) ***based on bard skills
Some Quivers (10%) *** I haven't tested. But it only works on archery weapons per Tabin
Grapes of Wrath (10%)
Level 3 Weapon Mastery (5%)

This is fail information and tested
Keep on lumberjack 100% to get best damage results!

 

[zieglers]

I use also a weapon with SSI + DF + SSI from a suit that I got +15 after nausea with Double Axe and +0 With Daesho.

I think Daisho wouldn't work as you won't be able to leech enough life back.

 

[Ford Taunus]

I think Daisho wouldn't work as you won't be able to leech enough life back.

I have used daesho (As tested feint) and double axe. Anyways SSI 30 Double axe seems to be about equal uneffective.

I really need to think this closer.
You feel Meli easier / harder than roof?

 

[zieglers]

I really need to think this closer.

Btw I always swap parrying instead of anatomy for RS as opposed to what many ppl do.
Eat Great Barracuda Pie to improve your HCI for 300s.
I think there're alo many other ways to maximize the survivablity/effectiveness in doing Lady Mel, though I haven't tried all of them.
If you use a maul without a shield you can drink pots, especially yellow/red pots which will help a lot when you miss a bunch of hits.
Using healing skill instead of RS as long as you are confident about your reaction when BO happens.
As long as you can survive and keep swinging at maximum speed, it takes only a couple minutes to take her down.

You feel Meli easier / harder than roof?

Maybe roof, which is not more difficult but more time consuming to solo. Lady Mel is dangerous but you can always use a sacrifice. But hey, just bring a friend to go with you, why bother soloing if you can make it so much more faster hunting with another player? It only takes 15min for me and wife to clean roof. We use a sampire and a 4x120 tamer bard.

 

[Ford Taunus]

Btw I always swap parrying instead of anatomy for RS as opposed to what many ppl do.
Eat Great Barracuda Pie to improve your HCI for 300s.
I think there're alo many other ways to maximize the survivablity/effectiveness in doing Lady Mel, though I haven't tried all of them.
If you use a maul without a shield you can drink pots, especially yellow/red pots which will help a lot when you miss a bunch of hits.
Using healing skill instead of RS as long as you are confident about your reaction when BO happens.
As long as you can survive and keep swinging at maximum speed, it takes only a couple minutes to take her down.


Maybe roof, which is not more difficult but more time consuming to solo. Lady Mel is dangerous but you can always use a sacrifice. But hey, just bring a friend to go with you, why bother soloing if you can make it so much more faster hunting with another player? It only takes 15min for me and wife to clean roof. We use a sampire and a 4x120 tamer bard.

Yeh. I do Roof and Meli also on a group. Just want mastery them now on solo

 

[ysolt]

I'll go ahead and post this again since the information doesn't appear to be common knowledge...


For the damage increase cap (300 cap)
Damage Increase for items = 100 *** Divine Fury spell will add up to 20% damage increase as part of this 100 cap
120 Tactics then (120/1.6) + 6.25 = 81.25
120 Anatomy then (120/2) +5 = 65
150 Strength then (150*.3) +5 = 50
For a total of 296.25 which means its impossible to hit 300 here unless you have LJ.
20 LJ (Skill Level/5) *if below GM* will add 4.0, reaching the 300 cap.
GM LJ (Skill level/5) + 10 = 30

This is not true Lumberjack will bypass 300 Di cap(meaning LJ is not subject to cap even if you are past the cap) so its always better to try to get as much DI,Tactics,Anat,Str,and Lumberjacking in as possible.

So if you don't run Lumber jack with the maxed out Str,120 Tacts,Anat,and 100 Di from item's.You might as well not use Lumberjacking.

 

[ysolt]

Yeh. I do Roof and Meli also on a group. Just want mastery them now on solo

I use Wraith form instead for a truly Solo encounter(meaning only one char,no bard,nobody else,But with a bard ill just use vamp form).

Wraith form helps alot ,cause when Lady Mel runs outta mana she casts alot less,meaning by the time shes half health she has no more mana for anything due to Wraith form's mana drain.

Take's me about 7-10 mins for one run,i also use a double axe with 30 ssi and 35 ssi on a all 75s refined suit.

 

[Maximus Neximus]

This is not true Lumberjack will bypass 300 Di cap(meaning LJ is not subject to cap even if you are past the cap) so its always better to try to get as much DI,Tactics,Anat,Str,and Lumberjacking in as possible.

So if you don't run Lumber jack with the maxed out Str,120 Tacts,Anat,and 100 Di from item's.You might as well not use Lumberjacking.

Would you mind clarifying a bit more and do you have a source?

If it will bypass the cap like you said, then why wouldn't you use LJ even if the rest aren't maxed out?

 

[ysolt]

Would you mind clarifying a bit more and do you have a source?

If it will bypass the cap like you said, then why wouldn't you use LJ even if the rest aren't maxed out?

I was not told by anyone,it was posted few years back from a dev.
lJ gives 10% bonus above the 300 di cap at GM lvl.

The reason you would'nt want to run ,let's say gm anat,tact's ,and LJ, is simple.
Less Tact's,Anat,The further You are from the damage increase cap, so for example gm tacts anat 150 str will give you something like 270 ish out of a possible 300 di cap(this is not exact number too lazy to actually do that math) .
And like i said in above sentence LJ gives the best results after you have capped(or get super close to it)Because it goes above the cap.
Furthermore,If you run LJ you are looking to maxout your damage output,so why would you leave tacts anat at gm lvl?rendering your whole 100 skill points not much use?

And an easy way to test if LJ does do 10% above 300 di cap,have a toon with 120 tacts,anat 150 str and 100 lj hit something with and without lumberjack on and you will be able to tell the difference(remeber to use an axe! i.e hatchet for AI and double axe for double strike.

 

[Tabin]

One thing to consider. As Elemental 100% and HML 100% can take easily ~50 copper runic hammers to make one. You can also consider to make 100% elemental with shadow runic hammer and enchant HML on it?
It will be little lower (81% on double axe and 87% on two handed axe). You can get one (even few sometimes) 100% elemental with one shadow hammer hammer.. You loose ~15-20HML. But you get full set of 100% with few millions and LOT easier... and later do 100%HML ones?

Set is then:
Shadow runic:
Powerful Re-Forging
Grand Artifice
Inspired Artifice
Quality

Ah and forgot to say:
As a bonus: Casting divine fury also refresh your stamina!

I know you're trying to min/max everything but I think this recommendation is just a waste of gold for players who might not be wealthy enough to burn 50 copper runics for one weapon. If you're at 300% dmg cap and 300+% dmg modifier, you'll be doing enough damage that regular imbued HML vs 100 HML makes no difference. Although if you're spamming DF, then maybe that extra mana is necessary but I still doubt it? Anyways, I prefer the no DF style and I'm very rarely mana starved.

The only time I have ever felt like overcapped HML might help was when I soloed Ozy. The combination of missing (therefore losing perfection dmg), parried AI hits, and needing to use confidence made it a mana hungry battle.


Also, using a shadow runic to craft a basic 100% ele weapon is unnecessary unless you needed 100% poison for some reason. Just use dull copper runics and enhance to get it to 100%. Way cheaper.

 

[Maximus Neximus]

I was not told by anyone,it was posted few years back from a dev.
lJ gives 10% bonus above the 300 di cap at GM lvl.

The reason you would'nt want to run ,let's say gm anat,tact's ,and LJ, is simple.
Less Tact's,Anat,The further You are from the damage increase cap, so for example gm tacts anat 150 str will give you something like 270 ish out of a possible 300 di cap(this is not exact number too lazy to actually do that math) .
And like i said in above sentence LJ gives the best results after you have capped(or get super close to it)Because it goes above the cap.
Furthermore,If you run LJ you are looking to maxout your damage output,so why would you leave tacts anat at gm lvl?rendering your whole 100 skill points not much use?

And an easy way to test if LJ does do 10% above 300 di cap,have a toon with 120 tacts,anat 150 str and 100 lj hit something with and without lumberjack on and you will be able to tell the difference(remeber to use an axe! i.e hatchet for AI and double axe for double strike.

The information that I posted is from Logrus, a former UO dev with newer information added as it was acquired.

The post I believe that you're referring to was done by a player, not a UO dev in this thread: 120 chiv?
UOGuide who got info from Logrus uses the same info: Damage Increase - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia

Please, show me where I can find that LJ doesn't count towards the cap and that you get a 10% bonus above the 300 cap.

 

[ysolt]

The information that I posted is from Logrus, a former UO dev with newer information added as it was acquired
The post I believe that you're referring to was done by a player, not a UO dev in this thread: 120 chiv?
UOGuide who got info from Logrus uses the same info: Damage Increase - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia

Please, show me where I can find that LJ doesn't count towards the cap and that you get a 10% bonus above the 300 cap.

No that is a thread about Chivalry I'm still talking about Lumberjacking.
I cannot find the post where he posted this info sorry,But if you read my post above i told you how you would test this,and determine if i am right or wrong from the conclusion of the test.

 

[ysolt]

The information that I posted is from Logrus, a former UO dev with newer information added as it was acquired.

The post I believe that you're referring to was done by a player, not a UO dev in this thread: 120 chiv?
UOGuide who got info from Logrus uses the same info: Damage Increase - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia

Please, show me where I can find that LJ doesn't count towards the cap and that you get a 10% bonus above the 300 cap.

From the link you posted Damage Increase - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia.

It state's this
Damage Increase from Skills / Stats
Main article: Damage Calculations
Note that these do not count towards the 300% Damage Increase cap (posted in Five on Friday - June 1, 2007):

Tactics Damage Bonus (Percentage)

• For Tactics Skill Levels < 100.0
  • Tactics Damage Bonus = Skill Level/1.6
• For Tactics Skill Levels >= 100.0
  • Tactics Damage Bonus = Skill Level/1.6 + 6.25

Lumberjacking Damage Bonus (Percentage)

• For Lumberjacking Skill Levels < 100.0
  • Skill Level/5
• For Lumberjacking Skill Levels = 100.0
  • (Skill Level/5) + 10

Anatomy Damage Bonus (Percentage)

• For Anatomy Skill Levels < 100.0
  • Anatomy Skill Bonus = Skill Level / 2
• For Anatomy Skill Levels >= 100.0
  • Anatomy Skill Bonus = (Skill Level / 2) + 5

Strength Damage Bonus (Percentage)

• For Strength < 100
  • Strength * 0.3
• For Strength >= 100
  • (Strength * 0.3) + 5

Read the text in red,And like i said you will be able to tell the difference if you do the test i suggested.

 

[Maximus Neximus]

No that is a thread about Chivalry I'm still talking about Lumberjacking.
I cannot find the post where he posted this info sorry,But if you read my post above i told you how you would test this,and determine if i am right or wrong from the conclusion of the test.

Did you actually read the thread?

 

[zieglers]

The only time I have ever felt like overcapped HML might help was when I soloed Ozy.

I can feel the pain...darn, just bring a bard...

 

[ysolt]

Did you actually read the thread?

Was there a flaw with how to go about testing the results?

 

[Maximus Neximus]

Was there a flaw with how to go about testing the results?

I’m not trying to argue and I don’t care who is right or wrong. If I’m incorrect then I want to know so I can improve my setup.

I provided two links showing what I said is true. You clearly didn’t even read it and then put the burden on me to believe you. If I’m wrong, please show me.

 

[Ford Taunus]

I know you're trying to min/max everything but I think this recommendation is just a waste of gold for players who might not be wealthy enough to burn 50 copper runics for one weapon.

Look my text closer... I indeed said to use Shadow Runic:

As Elemental 100% and HML 100% can take easily ~50 copper runic hammers to make one. You can also consider to make 100% elemental with shadow runic hammer and enchant HML on it?
It will be little lower (81% on double axe and 87% on two handed axe).
Set is then:
Shadow runic:
Powerful Re-Forging
Grand Artifice
Inspired Artifice
Quality

I said about copper runics to Findley, because I think Finley Grant got no problems with gold
(Also other good weapons made this ways are not wasted.. you get over capped HLL,HML and HSL ones)

This:

Also, using a shadow runic to craft a basic 100% ele weapon is unnecessary unless you needed 100% poison for some reason. Just use dull copper runics and enhance to get it to 100%. Way cheaper.

I do this with shadow hammer exact reason. As DC and shadow hammers (So you get full set (5x) of 100% elemental under 1 mil easily on both situation) are both runics are pretty cheap so "cost problems" comes from max enchanting resources and specially "Whetstone of Enervation"

Trick comes when my weapon got permanent durable loss. Item is iron so I can enchant it. --> Enchant it with material that gives dura and you got brand new item! (With +60 hammer enchanting is success is about 80% of times)

The only time I have ever felt like overcapped HML might help was when I soloed Ozy.

What is enough is good question....Myself I always welcome HML 100% over lower one.

 

[Ford Taunus]

I’m not trying to argue and I don’t care who is right or wrong. If I’m incorrect then I want to know so I can improve my setup.

I provided two links showing what I said is true. You clearly didn’t even read it and then put the burden on me to believe you. If I’m wrong, please show me.

I make tests today for sure

 

[Ford Taunus]

The only time I have ever felt like overcapped HML might help was when I soloed Ozy.

Yeh overcapped HML is super on Ozy also.. but it is indeed not key to win Ozy... But as you know Ozy needs few more tactical tricks than HML to get success.

 

[Ford Taunus]

I use Wraith form instead for a truly Solo encounter(meaning only one char,no bard,nobody else,But with a bard ill just use vamp form).

Wraith form helps alot ,cause when Lady Mel runs outta mana she casts alot less,meaning by the time shes half health she has no more mana for anything due to Wraith form's mana drain.

Take's me about 7-10 mins for one run,i also use a double axe with 30 ssi and 35 ssi on a all 75s refined suit.

Yeh have tried this also. Still get a** kicked some times, and if not death I go many times "Near death". Maybe my problem is my playing style here.. I just need more training on this one.

 

[Ford Taunus]

@ysolt was right


@Maximus Neximus
You got a HUGE damage bonus when comparing:
STR 150, Anatomy 120, Tactics 120 and Lumber 20%
Versus
STR 150, Anatomy 120, Tactics 120 and Lumber 100%

(Actually even dropping base str to 60! do not affect so much!)

Tested with my Doom build and turning lumber to 20% ruins it totally.
(I tested results also on test central)

So nothing was changed so I continue with :
Lumberjacker build for Doom:
Bushido 80
Anatomy 120
Swords 120
Tactics 120
Lumber 100
Necro 70+29=99
Resisting 110+10=120

This is Doom build without Chiv so max damage is needed.

FYI: There is a lot of fail information about damage caps on the upper post so ignore them.
I edit some of text that people do not get confused.

 

[Maximus Neximus]

I just did a small test myself. I used a crafted basic iron double axe, not imbued. I wore the arachnid cameo, but I fought arctic ogre lords to avoid a slayer bonus or penalty. Since I don't really have the time I just did 10 swings for each test. The AOL had 52 physical resist.

100 DI - 120 Tactics/Anatomy - 125 Strength - 0 LJ: 27-33 damage, average of 29.3
100 DI - 120 Tactics/Anatomy - 125 Strength - 20 LJ: 28-33 damage, average of 30.7
100 DI - 120 Tactics/Anatomy - 125 Strength - 100 LJ: 30-36 damage, average of 32.8

So it does appear that the info provided may not be exactly correct. I'll dig more into it but it'll likely be a few weeks before I have the time to test it thoroughly. I wouldn't call it a "huge damage bonus" though.

Re-reading the Five on Friday from 2007, it goes against what Logrus posted in 2012. In 2007 it was stated that they are not part of the 300 cap. However, 5 years later it is stated by a UO dev that it is. I have always just trusted what Logrus posted. But it looks like it will need further testing to see what the caps really are.

 

[ysolt]

100 DI - 120 Tactics/Anatomy - 125 Strength - 0 LJ: 27-33 damage, average of 29.3
100 DI - 120 Tactics/Anatomy - 125 Strength - 20 LJ: 28-33 damage, average of 30.7
100 DI - 120 Tactics/Anatomy - 125 Strength - 100 LJ: 30-36 damage, average of 32.8

Ok,let's do some math here.

Your test result's are,@ 0 Lj - 27-33 damage average about 29.3,with 100 Lj - 30-36 average of 32.8 , so let's see 29.3+10%(2.93)=32.23 ,seem's pretty acurrate to me for the 10% over the cap.

It does not seem to be that big of a damage bonus here if you only look at the number's on the test made here,But if you factor in slayers damage,a higher base damage weapon, it can be significant.

 

[Ford Taunus]

It does not seem to be that big of a damage bonus here if you only look at the number's on the test made here,But if you factor in slayers damage,a higher base damage weapon, it can be significant.

Significant indeed.

Lets put this all live on my situation:
Yeh...While this is Doom build with "double slayers" and "capped DI" who is hitting "OnSlaught" for "weakest resistance", for example, Abyssmal Horrors with "double strike" and "two-handed axe".. you loose easily ~30 damage per second!
I would call ~30 damage loss per second huge.

I can do doom without that ~30 damage per second... But by character goes from good to average.

 

[ysolt]

Significant indeed.

Lets put this all live on my situation:
Yeh...While this is Doom build with "double slayers" and "capped DI" who is hitting "OnSlaught" for "weakest resistance", for example, Abyssmal Horrors with "double strike" and "two-handed axe".. you loose easily ~30 damage per second!
I would call ~30 damage loss per second huge.

I can do doom without that ~30 damage per second... But by character goes from good to average.

It's all in the head,i feel like it's all the same but when i do the math and experience it for my self,then and only then, i could convince my self that it is really happening.

 

[Tabin]

Givens:
120 tactics
120 anat
150 str
100 DI
300% dmg modifier
Weapon: double axe
Monster resist: 45
Min damage = 98
Max dmg = 117

if you add 100 lumberjack, that boosts your DI by 30

so your final damage should be: 105-126
Damage difference = 7-9 dmg per swing
Double it if you're using double strike every swing.

There's your damage difference (based on my calculations).

 

[Tabin]

100 DI - 120 Tactics/Anatomy - 125 Strength - 0 LJ: 27-33 damage, average of 29.3
100 DI - 120 Tactics/Anatomy - 125 Strength - 20 LJ: 28-33 damage, average of 30.7
100 DI - 120 Tactics/Anatomy - 125 Strength - 100 LJ: 30-36 damage, average of 32.8
.

I can confirm that these numbers are accurate.

You guys don't need to test it further. Lumberjacking isn't affected by any damage increase cap.

 

[Ford Taunus]

I can confirm that these numbers are accurate.

You guys don't need to test it further. Lumberjacking isn't affected by any damage increase cap.

Thanks for confirm!

 

[Maximus Neximus]

I can confirm that these numbers are accurate.

You guys don't need to test it further. Lumberjacking isn't affected by any damage increase cap.

I wonder if a change was made post-2012 or if Logrus didn't post the correct formula. It doesn't make sense to have a 300 cap there when you can't hit it normally, then the only way to hit it allows you to go above it.

 

[Tabin]

I wonder if a change was made post-2012 or if Logrus didn't post the correct formula. It doesn't make sense to have a 300 cap there when you can't hit it normally, then the only way to hit it allows you to go above it.

It wouldn't surprise me if there was confusion between Damage Increase and Damage Modifier Increase. Perhaps the developers have a different vocabulary than the player base developed vocabulary. Perfect example of one fairly recent: Warriors Gift (Skill Masteries – Ultima Online) at level 3 gives a "5% Damage Bonus" Any player reading "5% Damage Bonus" won't be able to tell if its Damage Increase or Damage Modifier Increase. The players end up having to test it in game to figure it out.

To further dive into the history. There used to be a "Ask Devs" type Q&A and even the developer didn't answer the question 100% properly since he/she used the vocabulary "Damage Increase" to describe both types damage increase which can lead to confusion.
Source: Five on Friday - June 1, 2007 - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia

***QUOTE***
Q:"For PVP and PVM: If I have gm tactics, gm anatomy, and 125 str how much DI percentage do I have w/o items?"

A: Stratics has the correct results for these calculations.

+68.75% for GM Tactics
+55% for GM Anatomy
+42.5% for 125 Strength

Q: "People are saying there is a 300% DI cap for PVM, is this true? "

A: Yes, this is true, Damage Increase is capped at 300% (or a 300 internal damage rating). However, anatomy, tactics, strength, and lumberjacking are NOT included in that cap.

Q: "If I have 300% DI and I cast Enemy of One will I even do more damage?"

A: If you already 300% Damage Increase from special moves and profession abilities, then the answer is no, Enemy of One will not increase your damage further.

Note: that a slayer weapon is double damage (a 200 damage rating). Enemy of One has a rating of 100. The combination of those two alone would reach our cap of 300.

Q: "Are slayer weapons included in the PVM cap for DI?"

A: Yes.
****END QUOTE***

 

[Ford Taunus]

Yeh. Seems to be total mess with vocabulary.

Seems like uo.com and game itself uses "Damage Increase" as bonus from items, spells, perfection etc.

To make thing simpler I call now (on this text because I don't really know what is right word for it) :
"Tactics Damage Bonus + Anatomy Damage Bonus + Lumberjacking Damage Bonus + Strength Damage Bonus" as "Total damage bonus"

I think there has never been thing that "Total damage bonus cap"
Only source that I about "Total damage bonus cap" is www.uoguide.com (And I think that is originally wrote incorrectly)

...
And then other thing:

Also more interesting stuff from www.uo.com about lumberjacking. Seems like there is even more bonus when you are GM lumberjacker:

Lumberjacking – Ultima Online
Lumberjack with Swords Skill
Lumberjack gives a bonus to Swordsfighters wielding an axe or hatchet. The formula for this is Lumberjack ÷ 5 (Add 10% if Lumberjacking = 100) In addition swordsmen with GM Lumberjacking will have a 10% chance for a Lumberjacking damage bonus of 100% from base weapon damage.

 

[ysolt]

Givens:
120 tactics
120 anat
150 str
100 DI
300% dmg modifier
Weapon: double axe
Monster resist: 45
Min damage = 98
Max dmg = 117

if you add 100 lumberjack, that boosts your DI by 30

so your final damage should be: 105-126
Damage difference = 7-9 dmg per swing
Double it if you're using double strike every swing.

There's your damage difference (based on my calculations).

I justed wanted to point out You forgot the gm bonus of GM LJ,(10% chance of 100% weapon base damage),which translate to,for example,using a double axe(base wep damage of 15-18),so then you take 18+7to9 damage each swing which = 25-27 more damage 10% of the time,and only 7-9 damage more 90% of the time.

 

[Maximus Neximus]

It wouldn't surprise me if there was confusion between Damage Increase and Damage Modifier Increase. Perhaps the developers have a different vocabulary than the player base developed vocabulary. Perfect example of one fairly recent: Warriors Gift (Skill Masteries – Ultima Online) at level 3 gives a "5% Damage Bonus" Any player reading "5% Damage Bonus" won't be able to tell if its Damage Increase or Damage Modifier Increase. The players end up having to test it in game to figure it out.

To further dive into the history. There used to be a "Ask Devs" type Q&A and even the developer didn't answer the question 100% properly since he/she used the vocabulary "Damage Increase" to describe both types damage increase which can lead to confusion.
Source: Five on Friday - June 1, 2007 - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia

***QUOTE***
Q:"For PVP and PVM: If I have gm tactics, gm anatomy, and 125 str how much DI percentage do I have w/o items?"

A: Stratics has the correct results for these calculations.

+68.75% for GM Tactics
+55% for GM Anatomy
+42.5% for 125 Strength

Q: "People are saying there is a 300% DI cap for PVM, is this true? "

A: Yes, this is true, Damage Increase is capped at 300% (or a 300 internal damage rating). However, anatomy, tactics, strength, and lumberjacking are NOT included in that cap.

Q: "If I have 300% DI and I cast Enemy of One will I even do more damage?"

A: If you already 300% Damage Increase from special moves and profession abilities, then the answer is no, Enemy of One will not increase your damage further.

Note: that a slayer weapon is double damage (a 200 damage rating). Enemy of One has a rating of 100. The combination of those two alone would reach our cap of 300.

Q: "Are slayer weapons included in the PVM cap for DI?"

A: Yes.
****END QUOTE***

Check out the 120 chiv thread. That was posted 5 years later so I would have assumed it’s more up to date.

 

[Iolo]

@Ford Taunus You have lot of knowledge

 

[Ford Taunus]

I justed wanted to point out You forgot the gm bonus of GM LJ,(10% chance of 100% weapon base damage),which translate to,for example,using a double axe(base wep damage of 15-18),so then you take 18+7to9 damage each swing which = 25-27 more damage 10% of the time,and only 7-9 damage more 90% of the time.

Tested yet live?

 

[ysolt]

Tested yet live?

Ro!, See number,status, Bar ....rrrrrrrr,See number jump!(on damage inc number's,I.E, 59-69,all of a sudden,62-89!),number jump!,is bonus!.RRRR
only LJ!,RRR wolf,Thank You.