Yeah if Broadsword had enough sense to sell the stuff lol.
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I'll get flamed for this but I've said it in the past anyway.
They should just allow attended macroing for resource gathering and training skills maybe even healing. It's like gun control. You make guns illegal then only the criminals will have guns.
I've tried some of the um, other ways to get my UO fix and the best ones have it figured out. UM is bannable. You cannot be AFK, and multi-boxing PvP or PvM is also bannable.
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So my thoughts are diverse....I have been trying to express them in words but for some reason it hasn't been easy.
I did receive an ICQ today by someone who asked me to post their thoughts on the matter, and as I believe everyone should have a voice, I will honor their request.
I agree with the majority here the hate for the RMT people regarding scripting mining, Dupers and all other illegal ways to make the gold or items and sell them for cash. But what about the account sellers. There is no NEW player anymore and there will not be, This game is 20 years old and 90% of the time , all the people that buy accounts are the ones returning, they dont want to expend their time training toons from scratch and they could never even begin a new account with 1000gp, so They purchase an accounts. as far as Gold not going to the Game is not totally true, Most the money made by selling the accounts, goes back to the game,
I did edit out the last sentence they wrote because I feel it had a little too much information to post here, but again this is just another players opinion on the matter and their take on it.
I can neither confirm nor deny my opinions on the matter at this time
I did receive an ICQ today by someone who asked me to post their thoughts on the matter, and as I believe everyone should have a voice, I will honor their request.
I agree with the majority here the hate for the RMT people regarding scripting mining, Dupers and all other illegal ways to make the gold or items and sell them for cash. But what about the account sellers. There is no NEW player anymore and there will not be, This game is 20 years old and 90% of the time , all the people that buy accounts are the ones returning, they dont want to expend their time training toons from scratch and they could never even begin a new account with 1000gp, so They purchase an accounts. as far as Gold not going to the Game is not totally true, Most the money made by selling the accounts, goes back to the game,
I did edit out the last sentence they wrote because I feel it had a little too much information to post here, but again this is just another players opinion on the matter and their take on it.
I can neither confirm nor deny my opinions on the matter at this time
Some thoughts...
So many puzzle pieces here...
1. UO code is simple yet complex. Simple to add to/ break. Hard to edit/fix. Miles and miles of code! 20+ years of code.
2. In certain circumstances UO did this to itself. (Lots of stories like new content creating a loopholes) like where test center was open for shard transfers for a very small window of time.
- where do you think all those weps/armor came from in the mid 2000’s.
- if your fav car was on sale 90% off the ticket value, are you saying you wouldn’t buy it and then tell your friends?
3. Lots of seer/dev/mod - content creators who also took advantage of the system.
4. We like to blame the customers,but no good business model works today on that principle. We want to blame the thief, but if it’s stupid easy to steal and get away with it...
5. WoW deleted 4.5mil of revenue accounts because of scripting... its still happening, didn’t fix the problems.
6. On several occasions UO has taken action. Vinecords dupe= burning houses that you can still go see.. gold dump from several major accounts, and many others in UO’s history... if they do that now, they lose revenue they can’t get back... puts them in a tough position.
For me, being a “purist” in UO really is a joke. Progression had to happen or a business dies, it’s that simple. UO is slowly descending into that abyss. P2P, along with simple frameworks are where gaming has moved.
So with all that in mind, bring on RMT... it’s happening everywhere. If a person wants to work up their way to a plat and it takes them a year, I’ll gladly high five them, but I ain’t got time for that. At 20 years, UO is a hobby, and I plan to treat it as such.
Few other random tidbits. eBay banned virtual trades do to all the scamming and fraud. A gesture they still benefit greatly from.
Yes housing and accounts are still sold. With certainty, I can say a house sold for $9000. With certainty I know 1 big Rares sale that was all UO items for $18000. With certainty I know one item sold for $3000 and others for more. With certainty I can say a $6000 transaction happened just for gold.
People don’t like it.. that’s fine. People want to blame duper’s, but don’t have any current understanding of what, or how that works... they just talk a lot...
Duping is very limited today. The aftermath is what we are currently living in... so much was that everything was affected, including updates and patches. They say the full proofed the system making things not vendorable, yet I still have items I got from events that I cross-sharded that are not vendorable... another dumb UO fix.
Stop blaming players. Selfish intentions or not, that’s on UO, not players. None of this is rude or for an agenda. I just like to stir the pot!
Bring on the s’mores, I’m starting a fire!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So many puzzle pieces here...
1. UO code is simple yet complex. Simple to add to/ break. Hard to edit/fix. Miles and miles of code! 20+ years of code.
2. In certain circumstances UO did this to itself. (Lots of stories like new content creating a loopholes) like where test center was open for shard transfers for a very small window of time.
- where do you think all those weps/armor came from in the mid 2000’s.
- if your fav car was on sale 90% off the ticket value, are you saying you wouldn’t buy it and then tell your friends?
3. Lots of seer/dev/mod - content creators who also took advantage of the system.
4. We like to blame the customers,but no good business model works today on that principle. We want to blame the thief, but if it’s stupid easy to steal and get away with it...
5. WoW deleted 4.5mil of revenue accounts because of scripting... its still happening, didn’t fix the problems.
6. On several occasions UO has taken action. Vinecords dupe= burning houses that you can still go see.. gold dump from several major accounts, and many others in UO’s history... if they do that now, they lose revenue they can’t get back... puts them in a tough position.
For me, being a “purist” in UO really is a joke. Progression had to happen or a business dies, it’s that simple. UO is slowly descending into that abyss. P2P, along with simple frameworks are where gaming has moved.
So with all that in mind, bring on RMT... it’s happening everywhere. If a person wants to work up their way to a plat and it takes them a year, I’ll gladly high five them, but I ain’t got time for that. At 20 years, UO is a hobby, and I plan to treat it as such.
Few other random tidbits. eBay banned virtual trades do to all the scamming and fraud. A gesture they still benefit greatly from.
Yes housing and accounts are still sold. With certainty, I can say a house sold for $9000. With certainty I know 1 big Rares sale that was all UO items for $18000. With certainty I know one item sold for $3000 and others for more. With certainty I can say a $6000 transaction happened just for gold.
People don’t like it.. that’s fine. People want to blame duper’s, but don’t have any current understanding of what, or how that works... they just talk a lot...
Duping is very limited today. The aftermath is what we are currently living in... so much was that everything was affected, including updates and patches. They say the full proofed the system making things not vendorable, yet I still have items I got from events that I cross-sharded that are not vendorable... another dumb UO fix.
Stop blaming players. Selfish intentions or not, that’s on UO, not players. None of this is rude or for an agenda. I just like to stir the pot!
Bring on the s’mores, I’m starting a fire!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I distinctly remember hearing about a huge sale of an account(s) and it's contents going for near $20k.
I never knew any specific details but I remember at the time thinking how unfreaking believable it was how much $us cash people would/could pay for virtual items.
Ya that's insane!
You do know that Shroud of the Avatar, the spiritual successor of UO created by Richard Garriott, sold SEVERAL castles (called manors) for about 10,000 dollars each? He later also offered a "golden" castle for 30,000 dollars (not sure if it sold). The creator of UO himself has learned a big lesson from UO regarding RMT, think about it.
In the original benefactor program or whatever it was called,for SotA, I believe there were only two of those castle spots available.
It also included some real old UO swag and other cool stuff plus lunch with Garriott and friends.
But yeah, some dudes paid a lot of money in a pre-alpha game for virtual land.
Hell, I think they raised something like 17 million dollars, mostly by selling virtual real estate.
It also included some real old UO swag and other cool stuff plus lunch with Garriott and friends.
But yeah, some dudes paid a lot of money in a pre-alpha game for virtual land.
Hell, I think they raised something like 17 million dollars, mostly by selling virtual real estate.
What is wrong with supporting RMT ?
You yourself support it.
Let me refresh youre memory...you have earliere states (in another thread) if people dont have shard shields they can just buy xfer tokens.. So clearly you support it
I support RMT, i think its fine that EA makes a penny selling stuff in their ingame shop, however i would like to see more usefull stuff in the in game shop, but thats just me.
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that guy actually logs off immediately after the message is sent, and rotates through all the shards. The characters are usually standing in the spawn location in new haven. saw them once and started looking at different shards.RMT is fine as it is leave it alone
It keeps the shard populated, atleast there is 1 guy online, the avatar guy we all know so well for hes spamming every 5th min.
I was talking about the 3rd party RMT sites not EA/BS/UO. I am totally fine with EA/BS/UO selling anything and everything because it goes into EAs pocket and keeps UO alive.What is wrong with supporting RMT ?
You yourself support it.
Let me refresh youre memory...you have earliere states (in another thread) if people dont have shard shields they can just buy xfer tokens.. So clearly you support it
I support RMT, i think its fine that EA makes a penny selling stuff in their ingame shop, however i would like to see more usefull stuff in the in game shop, but thats just me.
The concerns with RMT do not pertain to UO store..What is wrong with supporting RMT ?
You yourself support it.
Let me refresh youre memory...you have earliere states (in another thread) if people dont have shard shields they can just buy xfer tokens.. So clearly you support it
I support RMT, i think its fine that EA makes a penny selling stuff in their ingame shop, however i would like to see more usefull stuff in the in game shop, but thats just me.
For the consumers point of view there is no difference wether they buy xfer tokens or other stuff from you, or EAs side.
EA did make money when they sold the token in the first place, so you're statement is kinda invalid, and untrue.
EA also made money from subscription if they were to buy say gold from you.
There is one LARGE difference. One is against the rules, you are buying merchandise that has a very good chance of being duped, and IS a bannable offense. The the other is buying from EA/BS. So, actually, YOUR statement is kinda invalid, and untrue. Just sayin'.
Which is also rmt...
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My statement is valid, RMT is RMT no matter where it comes from.
So what you're basically is saying is that if a person bough stuff from a 3rd party site, it would be all right, just as long as it aien't duped ?
What I am saying is, if you buy from an "unofficial" 3rd party site, which is against the rules, you should be banned. Items bought from the "official" site bring $$$ BACK to the game, in some form or fashion, and is allowed, and encouraged.
Interesting
Lets say for example that player X, finds a nice armor part on VS (this is on atlantic of cause, because u can't find this item on any other shard, for some strange reason *cough cough shard-shields*)
Lets say this part cost 100mill, just for simplicity.
Now this player dosen't have 100mill, nor does he have shard-shields.
If the player want this item, he could do it legit, buy 1xmythic token, and 1xXfer token. he would buy said items in the ingame store, for XX $, claim the rewards on atlantic. Here he would sell the mythinc token for 100mill.
Buy the item he wants, and use the xfer token to get the item back to hes homeshard. (assuming he has a free char slot on hes homeshard of cause).
In this example EA makes money, do you think this is a fair way of RMT ?
In reality we all know this aient gonna happend, player X, would buy the item from a 3rd party site, and have it delivered for free at hes home shard, for a fraction of the cost of a mythic token, and not to forget the xfer token as well.
So there you have it, why on earth would anyone wanna buy "anything" from the in game shop in the first place ?
Now you can say rules, are rules, true..but in the RL where most of us comes from...Money talks.
In both cases its RMT.
People who follow the rules don't.
So you are advocating that, in RL, it's OK to not follow rules, because "money talks".
I one case it's following the rules, the other, it's breaking them.
I simply think it's important to follow rules. You obviously do not. It's a difference of opinion. Which is OK. My opinion has served me very well, in both UO, AND in RL. I can't speak of yours, of course.
FYI, I actually had one VERY WELL KNOWN UO RMT person try to justify his RMT's by saying "It's not like I am trying to pay my mortgage with the $$$ I make like some of the others. I use it to buy my wife and kids nice dinners and movies, which makes up for all the time I spend in UO" (paraphrasing) Who THEN started "quoting religion".
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That's even worse to me. At least doing it to pay a mortgage could be out of desperation to not lose their house if their real job doesn't pay enough. Saying it's for random extra stuff like dinners and movies just makes it 100% unnecessary and greed driven, even if the greed is for the purpose of giving other people gifts. He could just play UO less and spend time with his family instead of trying to pay them back for how much time he spends in UO.
Exactly!
Which IMO is all this game has become anymore... all about Greed... Less about fun or community... You need to make it a fulltime job in order to actually get anything in the game anymore... and to me that just isn't fun.
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In free-to-play games RMT is a necessary evil, in subscription games it's not. If you play a free game you can choose what you pay for and what you grind for, you have that option, but the RMT is from the game developer themselves in most cases. What is being discussed here is not goods being sold by the Dev Team with he cash going back into the game, most of what is sold is from illicit sources, scripting or duping. So there isn't much point in comparing Cash Shops in other MMO's with RMT sites for UO goods. The Official cash shop for UO mostly has fluff items, which in a subscription game is as it should be.
Did you just complain about greed and then complain about how not getting stuff is not fun in the same breath? Seems like you might be part of the problem.
I know that you are already quite involved in the GL community, which is commendable, but I implore you to destroy or sell everything that you own that you can live without and stop attempting to acquire more junk. Only then will you truly be free to have fun. The greed corrupts you, you may not notice, but it does.
Who really cares? Let people buy stuff with real money. The RMT people only sell stuff on production shards where the economy is already totally borked. If people want to get off on staring at their bank balance or their fancy billion gold suits, more power to them. It just no longer interests me.
Yes But in those games you are buying from the people that make the game and that money goes back into the game. But in UOs case while EA and UO do do some RMT it is no where near the level that the 3rd party RMT sites do. You can have both RMT and Subs in a game as long as the people that own the game are the ones getting all the green.
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Not to mention the Devs are missing out on a rather large income stream by not selling some of the same stuff the RMT folks are. That could be a lot of cash pumped back into the game to hire additional folks and improve areas that need it rather badly.
RMT:
The Good = It's kept the game running, now 10 years past its expiry.
The Bad = There's still dupers, cheater's and scripters.
The Ugly = It should have been dealt with 20 years ago, however if it had I doubt the game would still be around today.
#THETRUTH
The Good = It's kept the game running, now 10 years past its expiry.
The Bad = There's still dupers, cheater's and scripters.
The Ugly = It should have been dealt with 20 years ago, however if it had I doubt the game would still be around today.
#THETRUTH
... this for sure. I've done it., Amazing how much storage space I have, how easy it is to find things, etc.
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Yes that's what I'm saying hehe but the poll says 'UO or MMORPG's in general', comparing RMT in RIFT or EQ2 which are run by the game company itself, to the third-party sites that UO scripters/dupers use is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Free games have cash shops to reduce grind, it's a trade-off.
Back into EA that would mean? Bonnie must have long burned all bridges with EA. What she (or Broadsword) are doing is actually sub-contracting people to avoid EA, like with this shady anonymous UOSwag shop.
I agree they are missing out on a lot of cash, but everything they add to the UOStore goes into the pockets of EA. They add some useless junk to the store now and then. Probably every time they have to report numbers to EA or something. But they resist adding anything that could be a golden goose for EA (extra storage, extra pet slots, extra cahracters, etc. pp.).
Then there is rumors about kickbacks too ofc
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While we can only buy items from the UO game store with Sovereigns, which can only be obtained through Origin, any cash paid is going directly to EA, Broadsword are unlikely to be allowed to run their own cash shop while Origin exists...the Swag store is something else, no idea who runs that and who gets the profits.
If I spend hours in the game just talking to a new playing and giving them things to a)start decorating their new home, b) build at the very least an all 70's suit and if need be one with 100% lrc... it's a good day... my whole UO world used to revolve around RP and I didn't care so much about "stuff" just deco... but my 2nd passion in UO has always been design and deco was the only thing AoS did that I thought was the most wonderful and amazing thing... Everything else it brought destroyed UO and brought about the greed we have today and a huge gap between those who have and those who don't.
Powerscrolls IMO were the 2nd worse thing to happen to UO... not only did your skills get "weaker" but... again with the greed and again with those who have and those who don't... and I do NOT want to hear about how you could go get them yourself as on GL I assure you that you could NOT go get them yourself... GLs had a huge ZERG guild and all it did was make their top officers rich... not only in game but IRL. And that's still something that often occurs on GLs ... every once in a while there is an "implosion" of the "top" Zergs and they all just kinda quit but then a new one reforms and it's back to no champs for anyone else... Most "normal" players on GLs gave up any idea of doing a champ a LONG time ago and have no desire to even try going there... others as soon as Shard Shields came out sought out low population servers and did champs there... unhindered...
Fact of the matter is 90% of the UO population just would rather not PvP... Some of them may join the zerg of the month guild and go do champs to get scrolls they want or need or to sell .... but the majority just don't go to Fel... which is why there aren't really many scrolls anywhere for sale.
If the DEVs would wake up and see that and put them in Tram at the champ spawns even if they couldn't get 120's but only as high as 115 and even if you then didn't get scrolls from protection you'd see a whole lot more scrolls for sale... and a whole lot more people working together doing champ spawns in ilsh and everywhere else in Tram...
But then they would have to actually figure out how to "fix" what they broke in Fel when they took out the bases and put in that stupid VvV no one does. And find something FUN for PvPers. And IMO Fel stuff should remain in Fel... No join VvV to get free armor and never go to Fel again... but real reasons to PvP and have fun... And something for Fel Thieves to do while they are at it... Guild wars or something... that involves everyone... not just the flavor of the month template club... Give them town stones to get their own buff if they hold a town... and things of that nature...
I tell you what @MalagAste, I will create a toon on GL and come help you get some powerscrolls. If the zerg guilds are as rampant on GL as you say, it will be super fun and easy!
I need you to do just a couple of things for me:
1. Stop giving stuff to new players, they will be happier and more prone to stay if they have to get the stuff themselves. I know it feels good or whatever, I used to do the same thing, but the fact is that they need to earn their stuff for themselves to feel accomplished. This action is part of the problem and instills greed into new players right from the start.
2. Destroy all but one of your houses. There is no need to have any more than that. I know that decorating can be fun but that is where they get you, they want you always "chasing the deco dragon", that is the reason for your deep-seated greed.
I believe that you and I are very much alike and that we could become great friends (we may already be, as I used to play GL before becoming Stinky Pete). You only need to purge the greed that has been instilled into you... But you are blind to it. I understand, I was there once myself. I can help you and we can save you some cash by closing down some of those accounts you are always threatening to close, you could even buy me a birthday present!
I need you to do just a couple of things for me:
1. Stop giving stuff to new players, they will be happier and more prone to stay if they have to get the stuff themselves. I know it feels good or whatever, I used to do the same thing, but the fact is that they need to earn their stuff for themselves to feel accomplished. This action is part of the problem and instills greed into new players right from the start.
2. Destroy all but one of your houses. There is no need to have any more than that. I know that decorating can be fun but that is where they get you, they want you always "chasing the deco dragon", that is the reason for your deep-seated greed.
I believe that you and I are very much alike and that we could become great friends (we may already be, as I used to play GL before becoming Stinky Pete). You only need to purge the greed that has been instilled into you... But you are blind to it. I understand, I was there once myself. I can help you and we can save you some cash by closing down some of those accounts you are always threatening to close, you could even buy me a birthday present!
I bet you would be alone there. Even if you announce in chat. About 25% of our spawns get announced in chat by someone accidentally usually Rat or Rikky. A single raider shows up about once a month on someone. We hear it in chat.
The problem is not raids, the problem is 110 scrolls and 115 Mystic or something a pet wont eat.
Whatever suits you. I can always find the time to rid the world of junk.
I hope we won't be alone. I'm kinda freaky like that.
I think using the term "greed" on @MalagAste is a gross exaggeration. She accumulates items she pleases to, houses pets, deco..What she has accumulated over last 20 years is an accomplishment. She is one of the nicest people in this game, always helps people, offers advice and assistance. Also encouraging to shed her goods in order to get rid of the "greed" is not correct imo. Should she delete all her characters from ALL accounts she owns and start new? What a great idea! Or should she give all her stuff to others to get rid of "greed"? Malag, keep your stuff, and be the sweet, kind person you intend to be. This is your playstyle. You are honest, and play an honorable game. That is a playstyle that suits your personality.
On the other hand @Stinky Pete, you have a different playstyle. You have admitted in posts here that you are thrilled with stealing, you are a fantastic thief (not for stealable artifacts only either), you stalk your victims stealthing in Luna bank, profile them, listen to their conversations for days, follow them to their hunting areas and house etc, and then you do your extremely high risk thing, something that gives you a thrill, an adrenaline rush, your pleasure in this game. This also is a respected and legal playstyle in this game. It also takes a different mind set and different altruism to do this, to say the least. We still love you Stinky..
I doubt that you can convert @MalagAste to become a thief, PvPer or PKer.
And I surely hope that she does not through all her items and properties to the wind, stuff that has memories for her, and took decades to gather!
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You're sweet @celticus ... I do enjoy deco... and house design... this is very true. I don't think I could play without being able to help people...I think using the term "greed" on @MalagAste is a gross exaggeration. She accumulates items she pleases to, houses pets, deco..What she has accumulated over last 20 years is an accomplishment. She is one of the nicest people in this game, always helps people, offers advice and assistance. Also encouraging to shed her goods in order to get rid of the "greed" is not correct imo. Should she delete all her characters from ALL accounts she owns and start new? What a great idea! Or should she give all her stuff to others to get rid of "greed"? Malag, keep your stuff, and be the sweet, kind person you intend to be. This is your playstyle. You are honest, and play an honorable game. That is a playstyle that suits your personality.
On the other hand @Stinky Pete, you have a different playstyle. You have admitted in posts here that you are thrilled with stealing, you are a fantastic thief (not for stealable artifacts only either), you stalk your victims stealthing in Luna bank, profile them, listen to their conversations for days, follow them to their hunting areas and house etc, and then you do your extremely high risk thing, something that gives you a thrill, an adrenaline rush, your pleasure in this game. This also is a respected and legal playstyle in this game. It also takes a different mind set and different altruism to do this, to say the least. We still love you Stinky..
I doubt that you can convert @MalagAste to become a thief, PvPer or PKer.
And I surely hope that she does not through all her items and properties to the wind, stuff that has memories for her, and took decades to gather!
As for becoming a PK and Thief... that would be extremely difficult for me to become that... I just have to much care for others. It would bother me to take that which they spent all their time and energy working on...
I have always lived by the thoughts of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."... and I prefer to be treated fairly and honestly and with compassion. Though sometimes I say exactly what I feel and speak from my heart which sometimes is quite unfiltered. It's not that I mean to hurt anyone but I express my frustration vocally... in the adage of "Squeaky wheel gets the grease..." I speak often and loudly and sometimes it may seem like I detest someone or some things but more often than not it's just my frustration. I do not have anything against most folk... however I only tolerate so much abuse and then well.... once on my "Do NOT Trust" list it's pretty darn hard to win me back.
I'm not advocating anything bro, im just telling you how the world works.
On one hand you wan't to support EA, but you wont give up you're shard shields and support EA with $$$ for you're transfers.
That does actually tell a lot about you as a person, i have, and i don't care about others mentality.
Just a last question, how do you think people pay for luna houses on atlantic ? Last i checked a 8x8 costed 60 plat.
Keith is the wrong guy to ask that....If you are trying to say the only way to get Plats is from buying. He can explain.
We're still on this subject? Seriously some thread de-railers need to work harder. Not that I would ever promote such a thing. *Runs off and hides before Archnight sees this*
Thank you, Malag for being who you are, and for helping others. Similar school of thought here..and more fun to help others..
Shard shields have not moved all the economy to ATL. Low pop shards have.
If you remove shard shields, then you MUST remove PK'ing also. Leave PvP alone. PK is 100% different, and it can easily be NUKED by the Devs. Its just a flag, allow or disallow war on other players etc. And not make you attackable, unless you attack first. There are 10 cent MMO wannabe video games out there that have this.
Leave the Shields alone. They are one the few useful items we aspire to get at some point.
So we are suppose to give up a GIFT that was given to us by EA for our support to prove to EA that we support EA. Now what is wrong with that logic. Do you really understand what you said.
60 plat, for any house is just messed up. I don't care if it's a castle in Luna.
Even if you cut the gold seller's rates in half, that's $21,000 US. How did we get to this point?
Even if you cut the gold seller's rates in half, that's $21,000 US. How did we get to this point?