@Mesana, it's time to evaluate vendor fees

[Lucivius]

Thank you for the reference. The thread goes back to 2011. Today the inflation is larger on one side and on the other side population is lower, and vendor numbers have been reduced drastically. It seems like a relatively quick fix needs to take place of some type, as has been suggested in this thread, to try to encourage vendor placement. I like the vendor search option added to uo recently, but what good is it if there are no vendors? I think that using vendor fees as a money sink is not a good idea, and there are many other ways to create gold sinks, other than vendor fees..

Thinking on this subject of gold sinks, which seems to be somewhat of a concern, I think for lower population shards the current vendor system is having the opposite effect. If any high-priced items are being sold it's being accomplished without the use of a vendor. Also, because of diminishing returns from length of time required to sell certain items there are becoming fewer and fewer vendors placed/maintained. As a result gold is just being hoarded, or as other have mentioned, being moved to Atlantic which is over inflating the economy there.
@MESANA We would all appreciate a response, especially before EJ goes live.

 

[railshot]

@MESANA We would all appreciate a response, especially before EJ goes live.

Aaand, crickets...

 

[MalagAste]

Aaand, crickets...

They are on vacation you know... just saying... don't give up yet.

 

[Uriah Heep]

They are on vacation you know... just saying... don't give up yet.

To be honest...it wouldnt matter if they were on vacation or not. While the last few years have seen a lot of silence and lack of communication, the last 6-8 months has been abysmal at best.

 

[DJAd]

Vendors fees just need to be a percent taken at the time of sale.

This.

 

[whitesmith]

This.

But won't people be able to use vendors as storage by having the item priced at maximum allowed; no one is going to buy it at that price?

 

[Uriah Heep]

So what? I dont know how that would affect anyone else's gameplay at all, except they would have something to pancake about...

Vendor storage hurts absolutely no one. And in todays world of storage space and technology and the "cloud" etc etc, server space cannot be an issue, sheeesh. Y'all need to quit sweating being so rigid on that, and start wondering and griping about why do they keep setting the game up to aid the scripters and others.

 

[Tanivar]

The challenge the Devs are facing if they remove the vendor fee is restraining those who would jack their prices through the roof saying you want it, you pay what I decide it's worth! "That's 10,000 platinum for the bandana ashat, cough it up! I'll let it sit on my vendor until the end of time since they dropped the stupid moronic vendor fees!"

We all know a few souls who would do this. Arrows would be going for a platinum each...

 

[Uriah Heep]

Well keep the fees on items over a certain price (mil) then. Whatever. I would lovce to see what you predict come true...if they get greedy a lot of us will be glad to move our product by selling it cheaper at a decent price. Ha ve a little faith in the market-supply/demand-etc etc

 

[Pawain]

Well keep the fees on items over a certain price (mil) then. Whatever. I would lovce to see what you predict come true...if they get greedy a lot of us will be glad to move our product by selling it cheaper at a decent price. Ha ve a little faith in the market-supply/demand-etc etc

I think a break point would end the vendor fee issue. 10M would be a good place. That way you could put cheap individual items out and put containers of items out also. More than 10M it gets the vendor fees as is. Less than 10M it gets a fee at sale. If you want to store an item for <10M, someone may buy it. I also do not care if vendors are used as storage. BOD books can be on them, so we already do.

 

[Theo_GL]

But won't people be able to use vendors as storage by having the item priced at maximum allowed; no one is going to buy it at that price?

The way to do it is charge a percentage when placed and a percentage when sold. Like 2% and 3%. That way if you put something up for 20,000,000 yes you can store it indefinitely but it would cost 40k to do so.

However, you can put up a 15k slayer spellbook and leave it for sale as long as you like rather than now it sits in a chest because if no one buys that 15k spellbook after a few weeks you are going to start losing money on it. So it sits in a chest.

 

[MissEcho]

If you read my post further up in this thread (pg 1) it shows how you can have a % of sale price without making it a free for all for those wanting to store items. It basically charges say 5% for 'sale' or 'removal' from vendor, with a system whereby the seller can reprice as needed but at the end of the day, after the initial cooling off period, a 5% fee will be paid on all items. Eliminates any abuse of vendors but makes the fees known and equal.

 

[railshot]

The challenge the Devs are facing if they remove the vendor fee is restraining those who would jack their prices through the roof saying you want it, you pay what I decide it's worth! "That's 10,000 platinum for the bandana ashat, cough it up! I'll let it sit on my vendor until the end of time since they dropped the stupid moronic vendor fees!"

We all know a few souls who would do this. Arrows would be going for a platinum each...

There is no more need to restrain anyone regarding their pricing than there is in the real world. Prices are determined by supply and demand, not by greed. Anyone who will price their wares unreasonably, will not get them sold.

 

[DJAd]

But won't people be able to use vendors as storage by having the item priced at maximum allowed; no one is going to buy it at that price?

The answer is this:

So what? I dont know how that would affect anyone else's gameplay at all

 

[Tyrath]

Just count the vendor stock towards the houses storage, then no one can brutally impact others game play by hoarding more stuff than what is believed to be fair

 

[Fridgster]

Just count the vendor stock towards the houses storage, then no one can brutally impact others game play by hoarding more stuff than what is believed to be fair

I'm sure that will make bod collectors happy.

 

[Tyrath]

I'm sure that will make bod collectors happy.

But it would be a fair trade off and is the storing BODs in Vendors really working as intended?

 

[Fridgster]

But it would be a fair trade off and is the storing BODs in Vendors really working as intended?

I know folks who could easily fill a house with the bods they have on vendors. Would more likely than not kill the little following that bods have.

 

[Tyrath]

I know folks who could easily fill a house with the bods they have on vendors. Would more likely than not kill the little following that bods have.

Another solution would be just make all houses max storage no matter the size and just keep the number of lock downs scaled to the houses size. Would not work well with the smallest houses. But even on ATL it is not difficult to find mid size plots. It took me all of 15 minutes to find a 12x15 tram spot on Atl Last night. Saw several 9x14s up to 14x15s but they were boring low to no spawn locations. It just ain't home if there isn't a pack of MOBs beating on you when you recall home

 

[Ruppy2]

View media item 389
Oh shoot... wrong chart.

 

[THP]

personally id say double vendor fees and folks will re-evalute the prices they are crazy asking for ****

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Economics 101
You have a valuable commodity, other people do too.. If you beat them in price for the same goods you will sell yours first. AND... not only that you will also become known as a "fair seller" in the market place. <---Branding!
Some things might be valuable but not highly sought after, this by those rules should make them LESS VALUABLE and in order to move it along you should lower the price to entice people to purchase it. Hint... Price to sell anything you put on a vendor!
I play ATL so i am part of a vibrant free market economy. This means that people on many occasions undercut me on the price im willing to sell something for. Either pull ur merchandise or drop ur prices below theirs!
I can understand how vendor fees screw with people who dont play on a populated shard but really just ask yourself.. Do people really want that lantern that you got from doing the xmas bod crap? If you really wanted it why are you selling it? AND! why do you expect someone to buy what you are so willing to just casually cast aside?Maybe just maybe it isnt valuable at all... Rare but with no value. Like dog poop a day after Fido ate some glitter...

 

[Maximus Neximus]

On Atlantic I have less than 10mil gold. I got a demon cameo which historically sells for 175mil.

The daily vendor fee for the cameo is 1,050,060. If I don't sell it within 9 days I go bankrupt. This also means that I can't really have any other items on a vendor.

If it was (as an example) 5% at the time of sale, it would be a fee of 8,750,000. But, this also means that the item could sit there until it sold and I won't potentially lose all my money in the process and the man (gold sink) still gets his share.

I get that some people have several platinum. But a lot of us don't. Don't tax us based on what the top % of the rich have.

 

[celticus]

@mesana, @Kyronix
Look at it from a practical point : The way that the vendor system is now is
----> A very nice new device has been added for some time now to the game by the devs, that I am sure cost time and money to implement : The in-game vendor search system and the ability to teleport ANYWHERE directly to that vendor for a small fee. And :
----> Now more than ever we have less player vendors, due to complex issues outlined in this thread. So that the vendor search effort/work by the devs is mostly useless, due to vendor dropout, especially in some shards.
----> Some games use a "in game consignment vendor" where you place some of your items for a fee when the item is sold, and where you could keep your item for a limited amount of time. Not sure if this might be an idea, and it would depend on what that fee might be, definitely not dependent on time on the vendor?
----> Things are not working out well, and it seems there is time to re-evaluate the player vendor system.

 

[railshot]

Economics 101
You have a valuable commodity, other people do too.. If you beat them in price for the same goods you will sell yours first. AND... not only that you will also become known as a "fair seller" in the market place. <---Branding!
Some things might be valuable but not highly sought after, this by those rules should make them LESS VALUABLE and in order to move it along you should lower the price to entice people to purchase it. Hint... Price to sell anything you put on a vendor!
I play ATL so i am part of a vibrant free market economy. This means that people on many occasions undercut me on the price im willing to sell something for. Either pull ur merchandise or drop ur prices below theirs!
I can understand how vendor fees screw with people who dont play on a populated shard but really just ask yourself.. Do people really want that lantern that you got from doing the xmas bod crap? If you really wanted it why are you selling it? AND! why do you expect someone to buy what you are so willing to just casually cast aside?Maybe just maybe it isnt valuable at all... Rare but with no value. Like dog poop a day after Fido ate some glitter...

Economics 102, History 101.
What happens when steep tariffs are imposed on a commodity that is easy to transport? Because tariffs or taxes are the closest example to vendor fees.
Do people suddenly go "Oh, since I have to eat a 50% tax on this shipment, I better price it low as to not pay the tax"? No.
Two things happen 1)Prices go even higher to compensate of for the taxes; 2) Contraband flourishes.
In UO's terms contraband is gold seller's sites, forums, and GChat spamming. So ask yourself what is it you are really trying to achieve with vendor fees.

 

[MissEcho]

Just count the vendor stock towards the houses storage, then no one can brutally impact others game play by hoarding more stuff than what is believed to be fair

That happens and I take down ALL my vendors, I vend stuff I do NOT want, I stock all my vendors daily and never do my vendors sit empty. I run 20 vendors on Siege (at Coco's), about 14 on Oceania at (the Angelwood Emporium) and 3 on Atlantic. I guess if I have to count every single item I do not want against the house storage I wouldn't bother with it. If it comes to keeping it for vendoring or having to have stuff sit that I am paying daily 'fees' on as well as it taking lockdowns then a whole rethink will be in order.

All those vendors generally have 125 items on 'sale' and I have a backstock of items for restocking of 125 + items for all items, which is why I can restock anything that sells daily. (no I don' mean I have 125 runebooks to restock the runebook bag, but I have 125 items to restock the 'book' vendor so spellbooks, runebooks, bodbooks, weaving scrolls and anything else on that vendor has a an additional back pack attached to restock) . So eg on Coco's on Siege that whole house storage is devoted to the shop. If I had to add an additional 2500 items to the house I would be tossing it in the bin. I currently pay 215,000 gps a day in vendor fees on Siege, which as you know is a pretty large amount to 'lose' on Siege Perilous, so NO do not also make me lose 2500 lockdowns as well. I pay a lot more than that on prodo shards due to the difference in pricing etc.

Now most vendor houses probably do not ensure they have the amount of backstock I do, but if you want a level One primer I stock all 16 varieties, and if you want a level 2, ditto, all 16. I have a backstock of 5 of each type so that I can restock instantly. They sell slowly, but that is OK it is a service for those new to the shard who want one and havent got up to speed with spawning etc, ditto for pure +15 skill jewelry etc I don't need it but given how many skills there are I keep rings and bracelets under each category for new players.

Even now I still 'toss' stuff in the bin if I have a surplus of it, even if I know it will sell 'eventually'.

I am not the 'cheapest' vendor house on Siege as, Yes, I am there to make money which I do, stocking at my level you NEED to make money as it takes a crap load of work to keep that place stocked, the stuff doesn't just 'appear' I work seriously hard for it. However I am pretty much stocked all the time, sure people can buy cheaper, but I take the attitude that consistency sells, so if you want a full mage spellbook you will get one, if you want a scroll binder, ditto, if you want a basic 100% lrc suit it is there. I know what each of my vendors 'stock's and where it is in the shop, so if someone says Hey Coco you got a metal chest, I can say sure, red vendor, last row, or Hey Coco you got a Bos, I can say sure, blue vendor front row. etc.

I don't just sell high end items, in fact only the two Black and White vendors sell that stuff and the most expensive item on those atm is a Crimmy at 3.5 million. The cheapest items are 100gps.

I have been vendoring for years and my post further up on how this issue could be 'changed' is seriously well considered and I think pretty 'fair', however I have little hope that the devs will change anything, or if they do they will have a brain fart and read some simple comment and just run with it and totally bork the system as they seem to want to do. Your comment seems 'simple' however it would have major ramifications for all serious vendor houses. Those people wanting to make a quick buck on Atlantic who only wanna stock as and when items of super over priced goods. While the vendor sits empty the rest of the time will not be affected.

Just need a system that allows a known figure ie 5% on all items stocked, paid on 'sale' or removal' from the vendor, and a method to reprice it as I indicated so that people still pay 5% and don't hoard stuff on vendors as storage. It can be done, just needs to be well thought out.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

A quick decent temporary band-aid would be to add auction safes to vendor search. They make hoarding nearly impossible and we can start getting some high end items in circulation.

 

[DSC Napa]

This is why I farm everything on my shard and sell on Atlantic. If you need to sell something ASAP, discount %10.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

This is why I farm everything on my shard and sell on Atlantic. If you need to sell something ASAP, discount %10.

It's more like discount it 40% and it sells when cross sharders from Atlantic come by on event night to scoop them up along with the EM drop.

 

[Tyrath]

It's more like discount it 40% and it sells when cross sharders from Atlantic come by on event night to scoop them up along with the EM drop.

It always amazes me how many vendors get stocked on a event night and are usually empty in between events.

 

[Uriah Heep]

If we get anything, it will probably be a $19.99 store item to use to get a vendor deed that has no fees-good for one year. Yep, $19.99 a year per vendor. Since we seem to be going pay to win, this will be our future

 

[Tyrath]

If we get anything, it will probably be a $19.99 store item to use to get a vendor deed that has no fees-good for one year. Yep, $19.99 a year per vendor. Since we seem to be going pay to win, this will be our future

Sadly you are probably more right than wrong...... Remember the good old days when improvements and content were a part of the subscription

 

[Learn Me]

Guys, vendors have been the same for years and been just fine. No reason to change them now.

 

[Drowy]

Then you dont play a small shard where alot of people say:"Hey there is nothing to buy on this shard" and the others say:"Its not worth selling valuable items because those items may not sell for a long time." A one time fee when the item is sold would solve this.

 

[Learn Me]

I don't believe this to be an efficient use of the developers time.

 

[Drowy]

A lot of people do.

 

[Tyrath]

Guys, vendors have been the same for years and been just fine. No reason to change them now.

Fine on a couple of shards..... Not so much on most.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Guys, vendors have been the same for years and been just fine. No reason to change them now.

When there were 250K or 300K players it was fine. All the shards were packed. Not the case anymore. Some shards probably are running on a couple hundred players or less. Not easy to do business in that kinda situation. Times and circumstances have changed. Almost everyone wants to sell and buy stuff but that's getting really hard to do. On Legends my business is a "hobby" I enjoy doing and a service to the shard. It promotes the shard. Right now I spend countless hours a week selling cheap and hoping to break even. Cause I know no one is going to play a shard when they can't get the basics. I try to carry a part of the load. When it starts running negative gold perpetually I'll be done. People won't play the shard or quit when it gets bad enough and enough vendors drop out. Right now we have basically 2 scribes, maybe 2 suit set dealers, I alchemist etc on Legends.... that sort of thing. Just one or two of these people drop out and there's a big hole and any new players we might happen to get out of EJ or whatever aren't going to be sticking around. Maybe they find Atlantic, maybe they quit. If BS wants EJ to succeed they better be backing us with the vendor situation or the new player experience isn't going to be impressive.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Some shards probably are running on a couple hundred players

Yes folks, he's an optimist glass half full kinda guy . My estimate is way lower lol

 

[Tyrath]

Yes folks, he's an optimist glass half full kinda guy . My estimate is way lower lol

Hey I filled most if not all of the trinsic castle spots that were sitting empty a month or so ago and a Keep and a 18x18 in the swamp. Going to be a huge real estate boom on Legends after EJ (NO I don't really believe that) I just hate seeing so many empty castle spots.

When there were 250K or 300K players it was fine. All the shards were packed. Not the case anymore. Some shards probably are running on a couple hundred players or less. Not easy to do business in that kinda situation. Times and circumstances have changed. Almost everyone wants to sell and buy stuff but that's getting really hard to do. On Legends my business is a "hobby" I enjoy doing and a service to the shard. It promotes the shard. Right now I spend countless hours a week selling cheap and hoping to break even. Cause I know no one is going to play a shard when they can't get the basics. I try to carry a part of the load. When it starts running negative gold perpetually I'll be done. People won't play the shard or quit when it gets bad enough and enough vendors drop out. Right now we have basically 2 scribes, maybe 2 suit set dealers, I alchemist etc on Legends.... that sort of thing. Just one or two of these people drop out and there's a big hole and any new players we might happen to get out of EJ or whatever aren't going to be sticking around. Maybe they find Atlantic, maybe they quit. If BS wants EJ to succeed they better be backing us with the vendor situation or the new player experience isn't going to be impressive.

You touch on another problem with Legends (And other shards) There is a very fine line with how many vendors the shard can support before the market is flooded and everyone trying to vend is running negative gold. I have often thought about opening my little shop up again on Legends and offering my standard fare of Translocation Powder, Bags of Sending, Pet Balls, Plants, Plant resources and dyes, cannons, Orc Ships and ship supplies. And as I was writing this I checked VS and not seeing any powder or bags, no Ships. So it might be worthwhile or at least sell enough to keep the vendors paid. But there is little incentive I would think for a alchemist or scribe to set up a shop and sell one spell book a week or one keg of greater conflags etc. I believe 2012 or 2013 was when I took my vendors down on Legends after several weeks of 60k-100k losses on the vendor fees and not even vending anything *High End* But I suspect it would take one maybe two vendors offering the same things and it would turn into a gold sink again from the vendor fees. As it is once a Month i shield what I collect on legends to Atlantic toss a Vendor up at the wolf house for 24 hours, usually sell everything and bring 20-30M back. But I have not even been bringing the gold back to legends because rarely is there anything to spend it on.