Adding Power Scrolls to Tram

[TB Cookie [W]]

Bleak took a stab at some balancing which improved some aspects and ruined others of PVP..

Don't go there, I was so pissed off about this.
There were 2 Wraiths there, with a huge amount of years UO PvP experience between us, and we tried to help.
Between the 2 of us, we have influenced UO PvP on our shard in a massive way.
(which for most of UO's history has been the number 1 shard for PvP, possibly still is)
We were ignored.
His mistake was, to listen to the wrong people.
So I am here now, on the boards.

the only reason they introduced VVV is because they broke factions beyond all repair.
If I recall they're supposed to take a second pass at VVV this year, but I wouldn't hold my breathe.

I loved factions. I accept it had died, it needed numbers to survive, and the numbers were not there anymore. Possibly they broke it, possibly it died out of old age.

They gave a good effort on VvV, it has not bedded in, they have a decent system, but it is falling just short in some area's, a main one would be the rewards themselves I would suggest.
Again, I've given some input on how to improve it.
Again, yes I know they are trying to do something to improve it, again, that's why I'm here.
My idea's may not be the best, but I'm trying to give input, if they have better ideas, great, if not, I'm trying to give an insight on how a real PvPer feels, when I play, it's almost all I do.
Good luck to them on this one.

To the Devs, please feel free to run ideas by me!

 

[Mervyn]

okay here is how guilds are formed:
person a) does a champ and gets killed by person b)
person a) the next day returns with a friend and team a) kill person b)
person b) the next time returns with a friend team b)
team a) recruit more friends to fight off team b)
team b) recruit more friends to fight team a)

and thus on Europa pro vs VP was born

without champs, what exactly are players going to be fighting over and have a guild for?

why would anyone goto fel if there were no champs?
yew gate pvp...

THE ONE AND ONLY REASON FEL HAS BEEN GETTING DEADER AND DEADER IS BECAUSE @Mesanna FAILED TO MAKE POWERSCROLLS SHARD BOUND, and they became completely worthless thanks to..
person a) does a champ on dead shard...and transfers to live shard....

since this publish 97, fel has gotten a little busier, but still being held back by non shard bound powerscrolls.
Putting scrolls in trammel is the worst idea since the invention of trammel.

 

[WhiteWitch]

This widely held belief that some evil PvP Mafia style cartel controls all champ spawns in Fel with a vice-like grip makes me laugh.

I was doing one earlier today on a prodo shard and got the shock of my life when another player appeared!!!!, first one Ive seen in weeks, he says hi and asks to join, I say sure - the more the merrier, we complete the spawn and he thanked me for sharing, sure, no probs, faster spawn and safety in numbers etc.

Its funny how a PvP ruleset makes people actually talk isnt it, its one of the things I like about Siege, people in Tram are often as rude as hell and treat other players as a hindrance to thier game, and its because there is nothing you can do about it, someone said earlier that if you had PS in Tram people would just wait for others to work the spawn and then come in at the champ to score a few hits to take scrolls, this is exactly what would happen.

I have had way more grief from people in Tram rules than I ever have in Fel rules

 

[Scribbles]

lol, trammies want scrolls now too huh? you have your own facet, your own rule set, your own safe little nesting area to farm pretty much anything you want except for scrolls and now you want them too? please move to them to trammel and watch how many people will non stop farm them unopposed.

They are already doing it on dead shards... Everything in this game is already 100 percent soloable. everything in this game is already scriptable and now you want to make it easier?

Go sign up for candy crush its more along your pace of play.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

without champs, what exactly are players going to be fighting over and have a guild for?
why would anyone goto fel if there were no champs?
yew gate pvp...

Soon enough, champ spawns will die down again, and scrolls will become worthless again.
It's not about them being shard bound or not, eventually, everyone just has enough scrolls, characters/now pets, will be geared beyond that requirement.

How about having a plan B?
{insert required PRO troll - I know your guild never has a plan B! }


Improve/Fix VvV up to it's full potential?
This is the one that could be real fun, a real draw.


Then it's not about having to lure people to Fel to PvP, they will be attracted to it.
If it went right, we could end up having more numbers, more fun.

 

[WhiteWitch]

Soon enough, champ spawns will die down again, and scrolls will become worthless again.
It's not about them being shard bound or not, eventually, everyone just has enough scrolls, characters/now pets, will be geared beyond that requirement.

How about having a plan B?
{insert required PRO troll - I know your guild never has a plan B! }


Improve/Fix VvV up to it's full potential?
This is the one that could be real fun, a real draw.


Then it's not about having to lure people to Fel to PvP, they will be attracted to it.

I think it would be helpful if they made just TWO sides in VvV, actual Vice vs Virtue, no need for the participants to be in a guild, just put the newest joiner on whichever of the two teams has less members.
We tried to affect this on Siege with the biggest guild there mobilising as many players as they could on a sunday at a certain time, and the other smaller guilds just agreeing to team up as an opposing side, also a gentlemans agreement on no looting.
As a member of the collection of smaller guilds it was a little hard for me to identify friend from enemy as our "team" were orange to each other, and there were friendly fire incidents, but just 2 sides made for a great run of games there every week, no one even cared who officially "won" the VvV games

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Don't go there, I was so pissed off about this.
There were 2 Wraiths there, with a huge amount of years UO PvP experience between us, and we tried to help.
Between the 2 of us, we have influenced UO PvP on our shard in a massive way.
(which for most of UO's history has been the number 1 shard for PvP, possibly still is)

With a statement like this I would like to know who you are, and what shard you are talking about? I assume Atl is the server

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

With a statement like this I would like to know who you are, and what shard you are talking about? I assume Atl is the server

Of course not.

I'm Cookie/Wraith from Europa.
All over my profile, not hiding anything.

Historically Europa PvP has been streets ahead of Atlantic.

Even now, Atlantic has about 10 elite players, and Europa has about 3 - that is the only reason Atlantic has a reputation for being the "best".
And yes, Atlantic currently has numbers over Europa, this hasn't always been the case either.
I am not 1 of these elite players, I am not a duellist.
But put me in a 10v10 or above, and my team wins.
(Sean, feel free to disagree, I'd accept it from you).
The reality is that the average PvP ability on Atlantic is way below our average, and we are having more fun, and certainly know how to kill a tamer, lol.

I think it would be helpful if they made just TWO sides in VvV, actual Vice vs Virtue, no need for the participants to be in a guild, just put the newest joiner on whichever of the two teams has less members.
We tried to affect this on Siege with the biggest guild there mobilising as many players as they could on a sunday at a certain time, and the other smaller guilds just agreeing to team up as an opposing side, also a gentlemans agreement on no looting.
As a member of the collection of smaller guilds it was a little hard for me to identify friend from enemy as our "team" were orange to each other, and there were friendly fire incidents, but just 2 sides made for a great run of games there every week, no one even cared who officially "won" the VvV games

Thank you for positive input.
A bit like the old Order/Chaos - which certainly had it's merits.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

IBTL. I've actually read all the posts from the beginning and see the concerns on both sides.
I'm totally PVM. But I really get tired of constant and drastic changes to the game.
So my concern here is this: why change a system now that has been in place for 17 years?

 

[WhiteWitch]

So my concern here is this: why change a system now that has been in place for 17 years?

Because the pet revamp made people want loads of PS for their numerous trained pets, and this has produced a big demand that has not yet been met by supply

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

IBTL. I've actually read all the posts from the beginning and see the concerns on both sides.
I'm totally PVM. But I really get tired of constant and drastic changes to the game.
So my concern here is this: why change a system now that has been in place for 17 years?

Some of the old systems required player numbers for them to work.
Factions being one, Champ Spawns being another.
Champ spawns were amazing when you had say 20 blues v a team of 5 reds. It made the dynamic work.
With lower numbers, the PvMers don't really stand a chance, and it's now a major cause of attrition between playstyles, and a reason for people leaving the game.
That's how I see it.

It's a bit like in WoW, I had a 120 man guild, all active.
I needed 60 people to run raids, so whittled 120 down to 60, every night.
As WoW playerbase reduced, they had to make smaller dungeons, for smaller parties.

Because the pet revamp made people want loads of PS for their numerous trained pets, and this has produced a big demand that has not yet been met by supply

This as well.
However, the attrition has always been there, it's just magnified right now.

 

[Mervyn]

I opposed having only 2 teams, and was the person to make the original suggestion that each guild should be a team of it's own, reason being, on Europa, everyone hates everyone, and 4 factions was not enough, people kept getting annoyed when "enemy" players would join the same faction as them, and my statement was, there's no incentive that would stop me from attempting to kill certain players on Europa, and visa versa. There isn't a huge amount wrong with VvV at the moment, only small things need to change such as not giving people 2k points just for joining.. and not having an active VvV town when there's nobody in fel, i e there should be at least 10 orange in fel to fight over a town. It doesn't need a lot doing to it..

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

I opposed having only 2 teams, and was the person to make the original suggestion that each guild should be a team of it's own, reason being, on Europa, everyone hates everyone, and 4 factions was not enough, people kept getting annoyed when "enemy" players would join the same faction as them, and my statement was, there's no incentive that would stop me from attempting to kill certain players on Europa, and visa versa. There isn't a huge amount wrong with VvV at the moment, only small things need to change such as not giving people 2k points just for joining.. and not having an active VvV town when there's nobody in fel, i e there should be at least 10 orange online to fight over a town. It doesn't need a lot doing to it..

Agree that we hate each other, I'm trying so hard to be civil here!
But fair point - If it were 2 sides only, Vice v Virtue, both VP and PRO would want to be in Vice, and I die from laughing.

Re VvV, I'd like PvP to be its own self contained playstyle.
A way for people to gear up, get better armour, gear that is comparable to the best out there that PvMers can get.
Then it attracts more people, and people who will sink time into it.
They can devote their playing time into their playstyle.



The same for Crafters, and PvMers by the way.

 

[WhiteWitch]

I opposed having only 2 teams, and was the person to make the original suggestion that each guild should be a team of it's own, reason being, on Europa, everyone hates everyone, and 4 factions was not enough, people kept getting annoyed when "enemy" players would join the same faction as them, and my statement was, there's no incentive that would stop me from attempting to kill certain players on Europa, and visa versa.

Thats really very sad, but chalk up another for my theory that UO PvP is just too full of personal animosity to seem like an actual fun thing for new players to get into

 

[Uriah Heep]

in my opinion, un-necessary revamp to Taming which is proving to be a new source of contention as well.

LOL! I never ever heard anyone ask for this convoluted confusing overthought mess that taming is now. All I ever heard was, "give us a couple of pets equal to GDs that we can use, that are smaller and don't block everything out"

But instead...

 

[RhelHalcyon]

IBTL. I've actually read all the posts from the beginning and see the concerns on both sides.
I'm totally PVM. But I really get tired of constant and drastic changes to the game.
So my concern here is this: why change a system now that has been in place for 17 years?

My only concern with scrolls being locked to PvP is that they're now required to do any high/end-game PvM content. The power creep in UO is a serious issue. Even attempting EM events is pretty much useless to do without scrolled skills. If scrolls weren't required to do PvM content, it wouldn't be an issue imo. But they are.

Hiding behind the "It's the only thing driving PvP!" excuse is what the Devs should really be focusing on. They should be finding a incentives for PvP other than scrolls, so that scrolls can then be moved away from being barred behind PvP.

Personally, I think they should do some form of point system with spawns. You do a spawn, you collect points, you go to a reward vendor and hand points in for various rewards. They could put the power scrolls on the reward vendor, along with other things like champ artifacts and even replicas/new items.

They could then allow people to do champs in Tram which would give points, but at a lower rate compared to Fel.
Fel champs would give points as well with the bonus of some system where if you kill someone else while in a champ spawn you get a % of their points added to your own.

Rewards could also be specific to the facet - Tram having more PvM beneficial rewards, and Fel having more PvP beneficial rewards.

The points themselves would not be split between a Tram "pool" and Fel "pool" meaning - you could spend your tram points on Fel vendors, and collect additional points in Fel but the pool being the same means you'll lose them to someone kills you regardless of where you got them.

 

[Uvtha]

This widely held belief that some evil PvP Mafia style cartel controls all champ spawns in Fel with a vice-like grip makes me laugh.

One only held by people who are too scared to set foot inside the red gate, let alone to visit a spawn. I really don't get people's aversion to getting pked. It's annoying at very worst.

 

[Uvtha]

My only concern with scrolls being locked to PvP is that they're now required to do any high/end-game PvM content.

I've asked before, but you didn't answer: Are your characters scrolled? Do you know anyone that doesn't have at least one scrolled out character?

I don't get why you keep trying to argue that you have to pvp to get scrolls when literally everyone knows that's not the case. In fact you PVM to get scrolls. You just don't like that sometimes a player attacks you while you are pvming. Perfectly understandable, but that doesn't mean the game should change to accommodate your lack of willingness to take the risk/put in the effort.

Personally, I think they should do some form of point system with spawns. You do a spawn, you collect points, you go to a reward vendor and hand points in for various rewards. They could put the power scrolls on the reward vendor, along with other things like champ artifacts and even replicas/new items.

That's the system already in place. I go to fel, get the scrolls, you stay in tram farm gold and pay me for them.

 

[Picus at the office]

I really think it is time to consider making Fel and Tram identical in terms of options available for all players.

I haven't bothered to read this whole thread but I felt that the first post was the only one which needed a reply.

The OP is correct in that it is time to make Fel and Tram identical in terms of options available for all players so.....turn off the unable to attack player feature of tram, place PS's throughout the game and lets see what happens.

 

[GarthGrey]

Double posted reply, gets more views that way....but why is it Primers are shard bound but power scrolls aren't ?

 

[MalagAste]

I haven't bothered to read this whole thread but I felt that the first post was the only one which needed a reply.

The OP is correct in that it is time to make Fel and Tram identical in terms of options available for all players so.....turn off the unable to attack player feature of tram, place PS's throughout the game and lets see what happens.

I'll tell you what will happen.... People like me will close out 10+ accounts and move on and UO will go the way of the dodo...

 

[Picus at the office]

Why would you take your ball away from the play ground? I see why you would write such a statement, it certainly holds the dev team responsible for your reaction and thus reduces any ownership of such a rash decision from yourself, but I fail to see how this is beneficial to the game.

Here's a thought, I have only three accounts(nothing compared to the likes of yourself I understand) and have not really played the game to an meaningful degree in a year or longer but I pay for each sub without fail to support this game anyways. I've not thrown a hissy fit, stomped my feetand ran home after some arguably poor decisions the team has made but I've waited to see what might come. Threats of "I'll close my 500+ accounts down" are childish, either do it or sit down.

 

[Great DC]

Double posted reply, gets more views that way....but why is it Primers are shard bound but power scrolls aren't ?

Take that further, why aren't all backpack drops shardbound? Do you know how fast this would destroy 3rd party sites and mass scripting? This would make the game soooo much better in so many ways.

 

[MalagAste]

Why would you take your ball away from the play ground? I see why you would write such a statement, it certainly holds the dev team responsible for your reaction and thus reduces any ownership of such a rash decision from yourself, but I fail to see how this is beneficial to the game.

Here's a thought, I have only three accounts(nothing compared to the likes of yourself I understand) and have not really played the game to an meaningful degree in a year or longer but I pay for each sub without fail to support this game anyways. I've not thrown a hissy fit, stomped my feetand ran home after some arguably poor decisions the team has made but I've waited to see what might come. Threats of "I'll close my 500+ accounts down" are childish, either do it or sit down.

I don't care for the Playstyle ....... THAT's Why I live in Trammel... don't want to deal with it or the BS that comes with it... have no desire to put up with it... And if someone thinks it's cute to put Fel PvP in tram then I'd be done.... it's not an empty threat... And I would NOT be alone... if people wanted to PvP they would... the reason it's dying is clear.

 

[Picus at the office]

So it's just a you thing, got it. Stomp those feet a little harder next time, mkay?

 

[TheDrAJ]

So it's just a you thing, got it. Stomp those feet a little harder next time, mkay?

 

[Picus at the office]

Lame is failing to adapt to a system that has been in place for over a decade.

If, at this point, you are still worried about powerscrolls and have not figured out a way to have enough for you chars I think you need more assistance than this board can provide.

 

[TheDrAJ]

No lame is making a taunt of another poster.

 

[Uvtha]

No lame is making a taunt of another poster.

Yes, you should just post taunting smilies at them, like an adult...

 

[TheDrAJ]

or

 

[Captn Norrington]

or

Personally, I'm surprised this one isn't used more often:

 

[Great DC]

Can we have an emoji of a guy putting a terd in his mouth, essentially saying eat s%$T

 

[Pawain]

So it's just a you thing, got it. Stomp those feet a little harder next time, mkay?

 

[MalagAste]

Lame is failing to adapt to a system that has been in place for over a decade.

If, at this point, you are still worried about powerscrolls and have not figured out a way to have enough for you chars I think you need more assistance than this board can provide.

I haven't failed to adapt... I've gotten along with it the best way I know..... which is to NEVER pay stupid prices to the people I think are undeserving of my money... And to get things for myself whenever I can. I also don't give things to people I think are undeserving and I don't care to help them either when they complain about other things... Trammel things. But... that doesn't mean that I like Fel or PvP or want it... and I will raise a stink if anyone suggests bringing that crap into Trammel... You want Fel rules everywhere go play on Siege... If I want to deal with Fel rules Everywhere that's where I go... But I don't go there for PvP... Quit trying to bring that stuff into Trammel...

 

[Mervyn]

Number one, are you ready?
We're going to build a wall, along the moongate border.
And trammel will pay for the wall.
One hundred percent. They don't know it yet, but they're going to pay for it. And they're great people and great guild leaders but they're going to pay for the wall. On day one, we will begin working on intangible, physical, tall, power, beautiful moongate border wall.

 

[Fridgster]

Quite honestly I've gotten to a point where I'll just be spending 12 bucks to scroll out my pets. That is what this has come down to at this point. Can I do a champ spawn? Sure. Am I going to work a spawn for 30-40 minutes with a chance to get nothing? Nope. For those claiming to do any spawn in 15 minutes is full of it.

 

[Mervyn]

How many times have you done Medusa and every other single encounter and gotten nothing?

 

[Fridgster]

How many times have you done Medusa and every other single encounter and gotten nothing?

Medusa always provides relic frags.

 

[Mervyn]

i'll sell you my relic frags for 12 bucks then...

 

[Fridgster]

i'll sell you my relic frags for 12 bucks then...

Lol. Medusa also takes about 20 minutes and that is including keying.

 

[Tyrath]

Still have yet to see one valid reason why 105-110-115 scrolls should not be on a couple of tram spawns. Can even see throwing the PvP crowd a bone and putting some unique arties on the fel champs.

The best solution to this all the way around is simply make the scrolls shard bound. That should have happened the day the disaster of character transfers was released. But there is a whole lot of stuff that should be shard bound IMO.

 

[Tyrath]

Lol. Medusa also takes about 20 minutes and that is including keying.

Why you spend so much time keying

 

[Fridgster]

Why you spend so much time keying

Only takes 10 to key. 10 to kill her

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Quite honestly I've gotten to a point where I'll just be spending 12 bucks to scroll out my pets. That is what this has come down to at this point. Can I do a champ spawn? Sure. Am I going to work a spawn for 30-40 minutes with a chance to get nothing? Nope. For those claiming to do any spawn in 15 minutes is full of it.

I can guarantee you that on a basic sampire set up (imbued suit) you can clear despise in less than 15 minutes

 

[Fridgster]

I can guarantee you that on a basic sampire set up (imbued suit) you can clear despise in less than 15 minutes

Video or it never happened. Not with the way the spawn is now.

 

[Fridgster]

My setup:

150/190/70
100 di
Double ax 100% fire with hit fireball/hit lightning vermin slayer.

I can't do the first wave in under 15 so if you have a secret by all means feel free to share. Can't get them to attack me quick enough even with paperdoll trick. Oh and 30% ssi on suit.

 

[CovenantX]

Can't get them to attack me quick enough even with paperdoll trick.

Although Despise is mostly a wide open area.

• Creatures no longer aggro without line of sight. (Publish 97 hotfix)
That hotfix adds time to every "spawn" especially in solo runs, it's much more noticeable in spawns with a lot of obstacles.

• All creatures with Grandmaster and above wrestling now have a chance to parry. (Publish 97)
Adds a small amount of time to most "champs" as well. (Non-caster only).

15 minutes is unlikely anymore. but I wouldn't doubt somewhere between 20-25minute runs of despise at all. (Solo)
I've done Fire spawn with my wammie in as little as 18 minutes, but that was long before these changes & the spawn "adjustments" that occurred a while back.

 

[Fridgster]

Although Despise is mostly a wide open area.

• Creatures no longer aggro without line of sight. (Publish 97 hotfix)
That hotfix adds time to every "spawn" especially in solo runs, it's much more noticeable in spawns with a lot of obstacles.

• All creatures with Grandmaster and above wrestling now have a chance to parry. (Publish 97)
Adds a small amount of time to most "champs" as well. (Non-caster only).

15 minutes is unlikely anymore. but I wouldn't doubt somewhere between 20-25minute runs of despise at all. (Solo)
I've done Fire spawn with my wammie in as little as 18 minutes, but that was long before these changes & the spawn "adjustments" that occurred a while back.

Try it with the new changes. I'm telling you not even remotely possible. Best time I've had is 38 minutes and I assure you I'm no slouch nor is my gear

 

[Uvtha]

Number one, are you ready?
We're going to build a wall, along the moongate border.
And trammel will pay for the wall.
One hundred percent. They don't know it yet, but they're going to pay for it. And they're great people and great guild leaders but they're going to pay for the wall. On day one, we will begin working on intangible, physical, tall, power, beautiful moongate border wall.

But what about the cake you had at dinner last night!

 

[Tyrath]

Try it with the new changes. I'm telling you not even remotely possible. Best time I've had is 38 minutes and I assure you I'm no slouch nor is my gear

Gotta disagree with you on this one atleast before they *Fixed* the spawn. My personal best was 18 minutes to clear despise and 24 minutes average and I suck takes me about 35 minutes now and I still suck. So 15 minutes pre fixxing it was very possible but not now.