PvP dying a painful death from Tamers Online

[RhelHalcyon]

The tamer doesn't have to do anything to his/her template to spawn, you just can't instruct a pet to attack another player. Similar to the way you can't instruct it to attack exodus minions etc. However, as with the exodus minions targetting a pet then the pet attacking, same applies to a pvp'er, if it targets your pet it can then attack back.


Bottom line is the most simple way to stop all this nonsense is as I said above, just take pets out of PVP completely.

All Kill
[Target Player]
Your pet refuses to attack that creature.

I can still spawn EXACTLY as I do now with my tamer.

So you're saying that you're perfectly fine with 240 points people spend on characters no longer being usable in all of the game content? Despite the fact that they spend the same amount of money on the game?

Also you're saying removing 240 points worth of skills used to defend ones self against attack at a spawn is "balanced"? You're serious?

"Yeah you can do that spawn, but you better hope no one attacks because you'll be fighting with 480 skill points as 240 are gimped to defend you. Best to just bend over and grab your ankles."

 

[MissEcho]

So you're saying that you're perfectly fine with 240 points people spend on characters no longer being usable in all of the game content? Despite the fact that they spend the same amount of money on the game?

Also you're saying removing 240 points worth of skills used to defend ones self against attack at a spawn is "balanced"? You're serious?

"Yeah you can do that spawn, but you better hope no one attacks because you'll be fighting with 480 skill points as 240 are gimped to defend you. Best to just bend over and grab your ankles."

I am perfectly fine with it yes.

It is Player V Player not Player v Player + Pet/s. I would also say that necros with skel dragons in tow should not be able to 'sick' those on ppl either or mages using summons etc.

My tamer is designed to spawn and get away if i get raided, hence I have hide/stealth on it as well as tame, vet, lore, magery. I have no problem at ALL engaging with the whole content of the game. You just change your strategy and work around the issue.

I could just as easily put on tame vet lore mage ei mysitc and focus to give myself more fighting capability if I wished to actually 'fight' raiders.

Or I can take any OTHER template I like to do a spawn in a KNOWN pvp area rather than expect to pvp on a tamer.

You know, using pets to PVP is really a crock. I don't pvp but damned if I don't agree that pets are now way overpowered in the pvp arena 5 slot rideable pets etc. I can't use my 'mystic' rising colosuss on on baracoon, so under your reasoning I should be able to as I pay the same money that someone who uses skeletal dragons in necro form can.

I have tamers on three shards and about 6 in total. The new taming upgrade is great in enabling more variety in pets. I don't wanna see tamers nerfed just to satisfy the pvp crowd which is where all this whining is gonna end up.

I would rather see pets taken OUT of the PVP arena completely. I have NEVER understood how it is OK to use pets to pvp with.

Oh and just fyi, I have done MORE spawns on my tamer since the new upgrade than I have done in the past 14 yrs. I now have the ability to actually hold my own with the spawn and boss, if raiders show up I leave the pet and scoot out, I still accomplish MORE spawns now without EVER having attacked anyone with a pet. So saying I would be "no longer being usable in all of the game content" is rubbish.

It all comes down to tactics.

 

[RhelHalcyon]

I am perfectly fine with it yes.

It is Player V Player not Player v Player + Pet/s. I would also say that necros with skel dragons in tow should not be able to 'sick' those on ppl either or mages using summons etc.

My tamer is designed to spawn and get away if i get raided, hence I have hide/stealth on it as well as tame, vet, lore, magery. I have no problem at ALL engaging with the whole content of the game. You just change your strategy and work around the issue.

I could just as easily put on tame vet lore mage ei mysitc and focus to give myself more fighting capability if I wished to actually 'fight' raiders.

Or I can take any OTHER template I like to do a spawn in a KNOWN pvp area rather than expect to pvp on a tamer.

You know, using pets to PVP is really a crock. I don't pvp but damned if I don't agree that pets are now way overpowered in the pvp arena 5 slot rideable pets etc. I can't use my 'mystic' rising colosuss on on baracoon, so under your reasoning I should be able to as I pay the same money that someone who uses skeletal dragons in necro form can.

I have tamers on three shards and about 6 in total. The new taming upgrade is great in enabling more variety in pets. I don't wanna see tamers nerfed just to satisfy the pvp crowd which is where all this whining is gonna end up.

I would rather see pets taken OUT of the PVP arena completely. I have NEVER understood how it is OK to use pets to pvp with.

Oh and just fyi, I have done MORE spawns on my tamer since the new upgrade than I have done in the past 14 yrs. I now have the ability to actually hold my own with the spawn and boss, if raiders show up I leave the pet and scoot out, I still accomplish MORE spawns now without EVER having attacked anyone with a pet. So saying I would be "no longer being usable in all of the game content" is rubbish.

It all comes down to tactics.

Pets in PvP are a tamers "weapon". You're essentially saying "We should take away a certain builds ability to function in a part of the game that balances decisions are based around." Balance isn't about taking away the ability for any given template to function. It also shouldn't be done based on your experience - no offense but your experience and play style mean nothing to true balance.

I'm all for balance - but imo what you're suggesting is extreme and doesn't equate to balance. It's a flat out nerf.

 

[MissEcho]

Pets in PvP are a tamers "weapon". You're essentially saying "We should take away a certain builds ability to function in a part of the game that balances decisions are based around." Balance isn't about taking away the ability for any given template to function. It also shouldn't be done based on your experience - no offense but your experience and play style mean nothing to true balance.

I'm all for balance - but imo what you're suggesting is extreme and doesn't equate to balance. It's a flat out nerf.

What is extreme is pvp'ers wanting to totally nerf all the new pet changes as some PVP'ers are now using the much higher skilled pets to pvp with, rather than using their own skill. You can't have it both ways, the pvp'ers are complaining that they are getting owned by pets in pvp, but it is the pvp'ers that are using the pets in pvp or the first group wouldn't be getting owned. Chicken and Egg.

It won't matter what the devs do, they can try reducing pet dmg agains players to where it is 50% of what it is now, then the pvp tamers will cry 'unbalanced' and they have been nerfed, less that that and the other side will say they are overpowered, the arguing will go on til the cows come home. The ONLY solution is to take pets out.

I am saying if you want to PVP, use a player not a pet. You can design any template you want. If you want to purely PLAYER v PLAYER (PVP) then don't make a tamer. In pvm, yes the tamers PET is it's weapon and it is finally nice to have a wide choice of pets. If you need to pvp with a pet then you are not really even pvp'ing but using the game mechanics to pretend to pvp. It is the PVP'ers complaining about pets not the PVM'ers.

But what will happen here is the nerf to satisfy the pvp crowd will affect all players as in every other 'pvp' FIX it has generally resulted in the pvm side getting nerfed to hell.

If I want to steal stuff from the dojo, guess what I have to Make A Thief and I don't make a mystic mage peacer. My other tempates are precluded from stealing unless I put that skill on them, so in your world that is a certain builds ability to function in that aspect of the game is not balanced. If I want to PVP I make a character that has the skillset required to pvp I don't make a tamer.

It is about time pvp was enforced to PLAYER v PLAYER.

 

[Tjalle]

Players escaping Atl because of pets is not a good sign. Lmao

The ones I know of are cheaters anyway so good riddance...

 

[Fridgster]

What is extreme is pvp'ers wanting to totally nerf all the new pet changes as some PVP'ers are now using the much higher skilled pets to pvp with, rather than using their own skill. You can't have it both ways, the pvp'ers are complaining that they are getting owned by pets in pvp, but it is the pvp'ers that are using the pets in pvp or the first group wouldn't be getting owned. Chicken and Egg.

It won't matter what the devs do, they can try reducing pet dmg agains players to where it is 50% of what it is now, then the pvp tamers will cry 'unbalanced' and they have been nerfed, less that that and the other side will say they are overpowered, the arguing will go on til the cows come home. The ONLY solution is to take pets out.

I am saying if you want to PVP, use a player not a pet. You can design any template you want. If you want to purely PLAYER v PLAYER (PVP) then don't make a tamer. In pvm, yes the tamers PET is it's weapon and it is finally nice to have a wide choice of pets. If you need to pvp with a pet then you are not really even pvp'ing but using the game mechanics to pretend to pvp. It is the PVP'ers complaining about pets not the PVM'ers.

But what will happen here is the nerf to satisfy the pvp crowd will affect all players as in every other 'pvp' FIX it has generally resulted in the pvm side getting nerfed to hell.

If I want to steal stuff from the dojo, guess what I have to Make A Thief and I don't make a mystic mage peacer. My other tempates are precluded from stealing unless I put that skill on them, so in your world that is a certain builds ability to function in that aspect of the game is not balanced. If I want to PVP I make a character that has the skillset required to pvp I don't make a tamer.

It is about time pvp was enforced to PLAYER v PLAYER.

Silliest thing I've ever heard. You can't just remove a part of a game because some people feel it's unbalanced. Perhaps we should ban sampires from doing spawns because they are better than any other template to do it. Sorry just makes little to no sense.

 

[MissEcho]

Silliest thing I've ever heard. You can't just remove a part of a game because some people feel it's unbalanced. Perhaps we should ban sampires from doing spawns because they are better than any other template to do it. Sorry just makes little to no sense.

Not removing anything, just making it so pets can't attack people. Tamers can still go and do spawns, in fact they can do everything they do now 'accept' use pets to attack players in player versus PLAYER combat.

And btw, It is the pvp'ers complaining, personally I don't give a fig if people pvp with pets but I do give a fig about all this whining by the pvp crowd that is gonna end up with a major nerf to the pvm ability of tamers as it seems that is what the devs always end up doing. The ONLY solution to the problem is to stop pvp'ing with pets. If the devs nerf em for pvp in all liklihood it will drastically bork pvm as they never do it properly, and it won't matter what they do to em in pvp (even if it doesnt affect pvm at all) the pvp'ers will still be whining that they are a) overpowered or b) been nerfed too much so it isn't fair to the pvp tamer and makes them useless)

If you wanna go to fel with a tamer you can, just pick your battles and if you can't gimp your template with additional skills to be able to defend/attack in a pvp situation without the 1000 hp GD/Cu/Hiryu there to do the fight for you then go with your guildmates to run interference and do the pvp for you.

Seriously if anthing makes little sense it has always been the ability to pvp with PETS. Unless pvp stands for players v pets.

Anyways, it's the pvp'er actually complaining and the pvp'ers actually using the pets, so it seems all pvp'ers should just jump on the taming bandwagon and pvp with pets and be done with it. Just don't bork it for the rest of us.

 

[Uvtha]

Newsletter just showed up, mentioned pet vs player damage upped to 50%, no more teleporting, something about fixing an issue with special cooldown pets vs players, removed spell damage cap vs pets, and upped direct damage cap. Noted further balanced will be made based on 1v1 performance.

So, nice job devs!

 

[GarthGrey]

hehe if the leet pvp'r casts a para field on your pet, your pet is free to attack.

I just assumed that when those 2 or 3 guys on Siege come in and kill 15 tamers, that it's because they easily take out the pets...*shrug* lol

 

[TheDrAJ]

I'll wait to see what happens with these changes but it is clear to me that if pets are really nerfed then it will affect Siege the most.

 

[Tjalle]

I'll wait to see what happens with these changes but it is clear to me that if pets are really nerfed then it will affect Siege the most.

*nods*

Whatever they may change about the new pets, keep it to prodo only.

 

[Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS]

There's a reason all those other shards are referred to as "dead shards".

PvP and players in general are virtually no existent

Shards are dead shard because of Shard Shields that is it, nothing to do with PVP or PVM or anything.
If you want to make gold and get somewhere in this game you have to step foot in Atl to sell stuff or buy stuff you wouldnt have in your shards.
If we were to get kept in single shards, there would be life in all of them.....

 

[Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS]

Only a matter of time before more pets show up on europa

We will killl them no worries, they suck anyways once the tamer is dead... or if you invis.....

 

[Deadly Serious]

I think it's been great for the past 10 or so years they've been working on the things that make UO fun, new skills/schools, item/imbueing updates and now taming is finally done a lot more properly now (before : get easyish taming level, get a greater dragon DONE).

I heard the Dev's are balancing pets in pvp that's good but I can't imagine how hard it must be to try and find a balance for pvp in this game with not only all the skills and combinations but with the amount of beta testing much more popular games have access too. I'm not hardcore into this game and i've jumped into other mmo's such as bdo/L2/mir2/Archage and i've gone relatively deep into the pvp in these games but all i'll say is pvp is not a strength of UO and i've never done pvp template (dirty pvm'er, go Fel quickly do boss and get out of dodge), I'm only saying this because of how inaccessible it is to get into/practice including the amount of time it would take to real skill to test the newish mastery systems.

I hope UO gets better and that includes better pvp, I would like for Felucca to only allow strict templates or actual "classes" including castles/guild rep or some type of big reward to come into play instead of it being about just stealing from others, otherwise I cannot see a future in UO for pvp.

Make trammel drop powerscrolls (not 120's), make that place the grind of the game so it's accessible for all to get to a decent standard of power in this game and then it's up to the Dev's to make Fel into something worthwhile that a lot of players say "i'm gonna go Fel and kick ass!". Just my 2 cents

.........

And yea ofc bring the shards together somehow, with all the housing and rare deco's etc I think the only point of call would be if Fel linked across all shards. Done.

 

[Fridgster]

Shards are dead shard because of Shard Shields that is it, nothing to do with PVP or PVM or anything.
If you want to make gold and get somewhere in this game you have to step foot in Atl to sell stuff or buy stuff you wouldnt have in your shards.
If we were to get kept in single shards, there would be life in all of them.....

So what your saying is that before shard shields the population on all shards were fine? Shard shields made it possible for some to actually enjoy a shard other than Atlantic and still not be crippled by a lack of materials. I'm sorry but I think you are WAY off on the effect shard shields have had.

 

[Cetric]

** Animal Training Balancing
------------------------------
------------------------------
The feedback from the recent animal taming update has been incredible!
We know many people are enjoying taming new creatures to accompany
them in their adventures throughout Britannia. We have been
monitoring the feedback from these changes and will be deploying the
following changes as part of Publish 98,
* Pet control slot requirement will only adjust when tamed. Pets that
undergo the Animal Training process will no longer have their control
slot requirement updated. Pet control slot requirement will still
advance after applying available training points. The Animal Lore gump
will now display accurate information 100% of the time.
* Pets with magery mastery will no longer teleport to player targets.
* Removed spell damage increase cap damage versus pets. Increased
player direct damage cap vs pets to account for max hit points.
* Corrected issue with special move cooldown for pets versus players.
* All pet damage is now reduced by 50% when targeting players.
* We will continue to make balance changes in the future based off 1
versus 1 scenarios.

 

[Mervyn]

I have heard of a bug with player vs pet, apparently if you use a slayer against a pet and do Armor ignore, it will apparently only do 35 damage, can anyone confirm this?

 

[Aeyko]

I'll wait to see what happens with these changes but it is clear to me that if pets are really nerfed then it will affect Siege the most.

Because there is so much Player vs Player activity taking place on Seige, right? No, this is about you wanting to say all kill on your 56k modem and lag up and hopefully you've killed someone or by some miracle survived while farming powerscrolls. Unlike you, the PVP community actually came together to try to fix something that was clearly broken. You wanted it to remain broken because it benefited you. I made a tamer and killed 4 people at one time with a stupid dismounting teleporting 46 hp mindblasting nightmare... I could easily have just kept my mouth shut and continued to abuse this at all cost... But I want to see balance in PVP, while you want an "easy button"

As you all can see, no PVM updates were made and this poster somehow believes that he is affected. Exactly what I have been saying ALL ALONG.

 

[Mervyn]

This publish 98 nerf to pets is way over the top.

 

[Cetric]

I have heard of a bug with player vs pet, apparently if you use a slayer against a pet and do Armor ignore, it will apparently only do 35 damage, can anyone confirm this?

That's the direct dmg cap against pets raise I would imagine

 

[Cetric]

This publish 98 nerf to pets is way over the top.

In what way? Pets take more dmg from players, both melee and casters. They remove teleport. Fix a bug with special move cool down, and reinstate the dmg reduction to 50%... Where is the over the top?

 

[Mervyn]

50% is a little extreme, they could've went 40.

 

[Happy Rage]

@Mervyn don't get them started again.

 

[Cetric]

50% is a little extreme, they could've went 40.

I can sympathize there, somewhere in that range of 30-50 is the sweet spot for damage. 30% allowed for more damage than pets ever did + abilities+120 wrestle hit chance. 50% is less damage than pets ever did + all the abilities+ 120 wrestle hit chance.

I think thats a decent trade off though. Pets can mortal, dismount, sleep, etc etc etc and hit more often at 120 wrestle, but they also do less damage than they did in the past to go with it.

Look at it this way

at 30% dmg reduction, a max melee (700 str, 120 tact/anat, etc) pet with 100% elemental damage could hit a cursed target for 30-42 hit points. at 50% reduction, that same scenario caps at 22-30hp of damage. Thats still good damage coupled with the chance to hit and abilities landing.

That is just melee, not talking magic casting. This forces what many believed pets would become prepublish - they are an amazing utility with good damage, not the primary damaging ability, in pvp.

 

[TheDrAJ]

Because there is so much Player vs Player activity taking place on Seige, right? No, this is about you wanting to say all kill on your 56k modem and lag up and hopefully you've killed someone or by some miracle survived while farming powerscrolls. Unlike you, the PVP community actually came together to try to fix something that was clearly broken. You wanted it to remain broken because it benefited you. I made a tamer and killed 4 people at one time with a stupid dismounting teleporting 46 hp mindblasting nightmare... I could easily have just kept my mouth shut and continued to abuse this at all cost... But I want to see balance in PVP, while you want an "easy button"

As you all can see, no PVM updates were made and this poster somehow believes that he is affected. Exactly what I have been saying ALL ALONG.

Well once again you attack me and put down Siege. I know you are ignorant about Siege and me and probably most things in general and again I point to people that have the Atlantic general chat mentality. No wonder people leave the game. I will bet however that the pvper community will want even more changes in stead of adapting.

The good news is the developers are now aware that the majority of players want Power Scrolls to drop in Tram. This wont help me at all since I play on the best shard, Siege, but maybe it will increase the player base.

 

[Cetric]

Well once again you attack me and put down Siege. I know you are ignorant about Siege and me and probably most things in general and again I point to people that have the Atlantic general chat mentality. No wonder people leave the game. I will bet however that the pvper community will want even more changes in stead of adapting.

The good news is the developers are now aware that the majority of players want Power Scrolls to drop in Tram. This wont help me at all since I play on the best shard, Siege, but maybe it will increase the player base.

I'm sure if you asked, the majority of players would want it to be like test center where you can click a palm tree and have every 120 you need. But just because the majority wants the easy way out, doesn't means its what is best for the game, the economy within the game, etc etc.

 

[Mervyn]

well they're nerfing it before i've had the pleasure of being killed by a tamer...

 

[Cetric]

well they're nerfing it before i've had the pleasure of being killed by a tamer...

If you have a toon on Atl we can help ya out with that

 

[Aeyko]

Well once again you attack me and put down Siege. I know you are ignorant about Siege and me and probably most things in general and again I point to people that have the Atlantic general chat mentality. No wonder people leave the game. I will bet however that the pvper community will want even more changes in stead of adapting.

The good news is the developers are now aware that the majority of players want Power Scrolls to drop in Tram. This wont help me at all since I play on the best shard, Siege, but maybe it will increase the player base.

Personal attacks now I see? Ignorant? Really... That's quite cute coming from a person that still plays on 56k modem. Tells me someone might just not be advanced enough in reality. Would make perfect sense as to why you want every single thing handed to you in this game. However, your name calling doesn't help your case and quite frankly we all know Seige's take on PVPer's. We've been over there and taken suits, items, and quite a bit amount of gear from you guys. If you'd like a trammel based shard where you're protected, maybe you should try Atlantic and play in trammel, since you keep referencing it. I believe you'd find really quickly how much further behind you really are, despite the 56k modem and the inability to adapt to 2017 gaming.

 

[Mervyn]

Perhaps i shoud, as a mage is not without honor except in his homeshard and in his own guild, and he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief. Matthew 13:57

 

[Picus at the office]

The good news is the developers are now aware that the majority of players want Power Scrolls to drop in Tram. This wont help me at all since I play on the best shard, Siege, but maybe it will increase the player base.

Says the guy who plays on the "hardcore" shard but is a cheer leader for the carebear lifestyle? Can you please give a rational argument for the upside of PS falling in tram? While I understand that dying to others and loosing all the hard work of 10 mins in a spawn is annoying making this change would only further the boredom that seems to plague UO, without some limited risk where is the rush?

 

[TheDrAJ]

Says the guy who plays on the "hardcore" shard but is a cheer leader for the carebear lifestyle? Can you please give a rational argument for the upside of PS falling in tram? While I understand that dying to others and loosing all the hard work of 10 mins in a spawn is annoying making this change would only further the boredom that seems to plague UO, without some limited risk where is the rush?

Sure read here--> Adding Power Scrolls to Tram

 

[Picus at the office]

Sure read here--> Adding Power Scrolls to Tram

Thanks for the link, I replied to your well thought out opening statement and could not agree more with your views.

 

[GarthGrey]

Why are mastery primers shard bound and scrolls aren't ? Yeah that can of worms stinks....

 

[Aeyko]

This thread accomplished two things for me.

1. Helped the DEV's to pay attention to the pet issue and correct the issue.
2. Gave me a reason to play my already built character on Seige. Before I had no real reason to log on and take peoples crappy gear. I do have that incentive now.

Overall, I'd say this thread has been a huge success!

 

[Tjalle]

But I want to see balance in PVP

Your own pics disagree with you.

 

[Aeyko]

Your own pics disagree with you.

Please explain.

 

[Merlin]

Folks, this particular thread has run it's course. At ten pages long, most of the comments the last two pages here have been mainly based on criticisms of personal play styles and bringing up topics we already have open in other threads. I think everyone has made their points here and nothing new or fruitful is coming up.

However, I did create a new thread to discuss some of the specific changes mentioned in the most recent newsletter, found here: Proposed PVP changes from most recent newsletter

Thank you for your input.