Reduce Chivalry to 2/6 casting?

[Gorath]

Just from observation, the 4/6 chivalry is pretty ridiculous. Combining it with the items and new skills since AoS first launched this may be something to look into. Adding a ranged attack on top seemed a bit crazy. Spellweaving doesn't seem to have interfered with the casting cap either.

Short, sweet, and to the point? Anyone else have opinions on chivalry right now?

 

[ziox]

@Gorath, Chivalry works very well. There is no need to change anything.

Have a nice day !

 

[805connection]

@Gorath, Chivalry works very well. There is no need to change anything.

Have a nice day !

I would just like to see remove curse cost 40 mana,

 

[Cetric]

Could agree with that. If a 4/6er doesn't feel like dying they pretty much won't if they know what they are doing lol

That's a real tough one tho. I ran a chiv dexer at 3/6 just fine for quite a while, but it would piss a lot of ppl off

 

[Merlin]

Leave Chivalry as is.

 

[ziox]

I would just like to see remove curse cost 40 mana,

40 mana sound good !
still can use apples =)

 

[805connection]

40 mana sound good !
still can use apples =)

yeah, remove curse is what kills us mages...

 

[Cetric]

Yea if anything is a problem it's the overuse of remove curse, and maybe cure (since poison is really the only good way to block 4/6 heals)

Higher Mana cost or lower speed solves most of that issue

 

[805connection]

Yea if anything is a problem it's the overuse of remove curse, and maybe cure (since poison is really the only good way to block 4/6 heals)

Higher Mana cost or lower speed solves most of that issue

also sac journey should not be casted while running

 

[ziox]

why not delete the skill ?

 

[Lord Frodo]

Someone got their butt handed to them by a 4/6 chiv and now they want it nerfed. By the way how lond have we had 4/6 for chiv and NOW IT IS A PROBLEM, right.

 

[Gorath]

Someone got their butt handed to them by a 4/6 chiv and now they want it nerfed. By the way how lond have we had 4/6 for chiv and NOW IT IS A PROBLEM, right.

No, fought one, won, but the heals/curse/cures were an absolute pain in the you know what.

Instead, talk about the mechanics, personally, find the heal speeds to be a little crazy given the amount it heals + bandages + pots + apples+ etc

 

[Lord Frodo]

No, fought one, won, but the heals/curse/cures were an absolute pain in the you know what.

Instead, talk about the mechanics, personally, find the heal speeds to be a little crazy given the amount it heals + bandages + pots + apples+ etc

So you WON and you still want a NERF? Now that is priceless. Lets NERF something because I had to work at killing someone. Where is the EASY BUTTON when you need it.

 

[Cetric]

Lol it's called having an unbiased discussion. I could care less about 4/6ers, but he makes a point that in the modern era of uo with the gear and the supplies u can add into 4/6 chiv, the concept has changed compared to what it was.

There was a point where even getting 4/6 left huge holes in ur suit/template like having to hold a shield. With town bonus and the new hat, that is dramatically different too.

You are clearly biased

 

[Gorath]

Lol it's called having an unbiased discussion. I could care less about 4/6ers, but he makes a point that in the modern era of uo with the gear and the supplies u can add into 4/6 chiv, the concept has changed compared to what it was.

There was a point where even getting 4/6 left huge holes in ur suit/template like having to hold a shield. With town bonus and the new hat, that is dramatically different too.

You are clearly biased

Thank you for getting what I am speaking about. I don't mind having to work for kills at all, in fact you fight a great mage and they are still harder to take down then 4/6 guys, but 4/6 actually seems like an easy mode button for people. Between pots, bandages, chiv, apples, remove cruse chiv...giant paint in the butt, or 4/6 chiv with pixies is annoying too.

I just think 4/6 chiv has kind of changed with the ranged attack, and the gear that is available now and maybe they need to look at it again. Even 3/6 might be more reasonable.

I am also open to the fact I may be wrong but I am not so insecure that I can't have a conversation about it.

 

[swampjumper]

Leave chiv as it is 4/6 should be left that way to much taqil wagging the Dog

 

[Lord Frodo]

Lol it's called having an unbiased discussion. I could care less about 4/6ers, but he makes a point that in the modern era of uo with the gear and the supplies u can add into 4/6 chiv, the concept has changed compared to what it was.

There was a point where even getting 4/6 left huge holes in ur suit/template like having to hold a shield. With town bonus and the new hat, that is dramatically different too.

You are clearly biased

So he was still able to beat him but to you it wasn't EAST enough. DAMN and here I thought the idea was to BALANCE UO but I guess that is only for the CHOSEN flavor of the day.

 

[805connection]

I see nothing wrong with chiv,

chiv parry resist +combat + spellweaving and ninjia 720 skill points all into defense skill, no reason you should be able to kill that person 1 vs 1..

Although I think remove curse is still way too powerful

 

[cazador]

Someone got their butt handed to them by a 4/6 chiv and now they want it nerfed. By the way how lond have we had 4/6 for chiv and NOW IT IS A PROBLEM, right.

Chiv's been around forever! However..60+ skill jewls x2 with skill armor hasn't been.


....

 

[Cetric]

So he was still able to beat him but to you it wasn't EAST enough. DAMN and here I thought the idea was to BALANCE UO but I guess that is only for the CHOSEN flavor of the day.

Anyone with partial brain power can see how incredibly hard a 4/6er can be to kill these days. The trade off used to be limited offense and unless you had some great gear, the inability to use potions because you had both hands full. Now it is more then easy to build it to have potions, holy fist gains an added layer of damage, and all the while while they are able to mount a decent form of offense, they remain terribly hard to kill. You can use the same argument for a 4/6er as you could for the parry alchy mag before adjustments last patch..

And before you go labeling anything, the char i play the most now utilizes splintering weapons, and i literally just posted on how i 10000% agree splinter is overpowered and should be addressed. Sometimes you need to step back and see the bigger picture then getting upset that someone is pointing out a flaw in a system that you use.

 

[Max Blackoak]

...come to Siege Perilous and you won't have trouble with 4/6 chiv PvPers. the suit is so costly to replace hardly anyone runs it and even those who do have secondary templates for when they run out of gear which usually happens after 2 or 3 deaths at the latest... I know how this will be seen as trolling by some of you - it really is not meant to be.

 

[cholupa]

It is fine the way it is. Even with holy fist their offense is very limited. Strong defense is balanced out by weak offense.

 

[805connection]

I just see tank classes in uo that is all, and a 4/6 chiv is a tank. However once again the main problem is the

...come to Siege Perilous and you won't have trouble with 4/6 chiv PvPers. the suit is so costly to replace hardly anyone runs it and even those who do have secondary templates for when they run out of gear which usually happens after 2 or 3 deaths at the latest... I know how this will be seen as trolling by some of you - it really is not meant to be.

1 fc shield,
1/3 imbued jewels
1 town buff..

 

[Max Blackoak]

1 fc shield,
1/3 imbued jewels
1 town buff..

that is correct, I am not saying it can't be done on Siege. What I am saying is that almost nobody does it because the suit is a pain to maintain and involves risking to loose hard to replace items. You absolutely will get ganked at some point. In 99% of the cases death in PvP means you need to go farm 3x fc1 and 2x fcr3 ingredients at the very least. Again it can be done but people usually don't want to spend that much time on a suit they'll loose sooner rather than later.

 

[805connection]

that is correct, I am not saying it can't be done on Siege. What I am saying is that almost nobody does it because the suit is a pain to maintain and involves risking to loose hard to replace items. You absolutely will get ganked at some point. In 99% of the cases death in PvP means you need to go farm 3x fc1 and 2x fcr3 ingredients at the very least. Again it can be done but people usually don't want to spend that much time on a suit they'll loose sooner rather than later.

I would rock a 4/6 ninjia with parry and resist and alchy and med. and just gank,

 

[Max Blackoak]

what other skills? magery and eval? weapon skill and tactics? would you be able to fit everything on the suit and still keep it reasonably easy to replace?

 

[Gorath]

I just see tank classes in uo that is all, and a 4/6 chiv is a tank. However once again the main problem is the

1 fc shield,
1/3 imbued jewels
1 town buff..

Even avoiding the siege talk, there is also the bandana now.

 

[805connection]

Gonna Keep saying it over and over Chiv is fine, Remove curse needs a tweak once that happens the skill will be much better.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

@Gorath, Chivalry works very well. There is no need to change anything.

Have a nice day !

Sure, and pigs can fly. Chivalry was not designed around today's game, and has never been modified in a way to counter the games item progression over the years. If you think it is balanced, you are broken...

With 15 skill points into chiv, 40 points on jewels, 4/6 casting and 25000 karma, I can negate every...single...template in the game. Not skills mind you, templates...

Again, if you consider that to be balanced, you are broken.

 

[transcendent]

Sure, and pigs can fly. Chivalry was not designed around today's game, and has never been modified in a way to counter the games item progression over the years. If you think it is balanced, you are broken...

With 15 skill points into chiv, 40 points on jewels, 4/6 casting and 25000 karma, I can negate every...single...template in the game. Not skills mind you, templates...

Again, if you consider that to be balanced, you are broken.

Holy Fist damage is based on real skill.

The setup you proposed with skill jewelry will not work

 

[805connection]

Sure, and pigs can fly. Chivalry was not designed around today's game, and has never been modified in a way to counter the games item progression over the years. If you think it is balanced, you are broken...

With 15 skill points into chiv, 40 points on jewels, 4/6 casting and 25000 karma, I can negate every...single...template in the game. Not skills mind you, templates...

Again, if you consider that to be balanced, you are broken.

Also I think your healing is also based on karma and skill leve

 

[transcendent]

Also if you only have 65 chiv, your heals, cures, remove curse and everything will be weaker. You will fail a lot trying to cure lethal poison. Heal amount is pitiful

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Gonna Keep saying it over and over Chiv is fine, Remove curse needs a tweak once that happens the skill will be much better.

The skill never received a significant rework since it was released. At the time it was released, this was not a possibility:
70s all resist
100 lrc
55 lmc
4/6 casting
45 hci
45 dci
25 swing speed inc
100 dmg inc
20 mr
18 hpr
14 casting focus
40 stat increase
40 + skill increase
eater armor

Do you think the developers had suits like the one above in mind when they designed Chivalry?

Second question, when AoS came out, 25000+ positive karma was not even remotely possible, shouldn't effectiveness be reworked to reflect on this? 25000 Karma and 15 real skill should not be able to render all templates useless...period.

 

[Cetric]

mages have a really hard time killing anyone that isn't cursed. Theres just a big fact right there. No curse - very little chance to kill

You couple that with the insanely fast remove curse and eat an apple if u get in a pinch, and a 4/6er is pretty golden. also sitting on parry potentially, Nearly a Greater heal closer to mini heal speed, and cures that can cure the highest poisons with ease. Its rough. Are they sacrificing offense? yea, they sure are, but not nearly like they used to.

You used to just kind of ignore a 4/6er, they wer ejust there, they practically haven't been able to do any offense in many years. But now, they sit on so much inherent defense that they could put their efforts into higher offense and not sacrifice.

I'm not overly passionate on seeing it changes, but if they went through and did some balancing, you could make a case that remove curse/cure could be slowed down a quarter second or so, or cap it at 2 or 3 FC if some other condition is met, else be 4FC

 

[transcendent]

The skill never received a significant rework since it was released. At the time it was released, this was not a possibility:
70s all resist
100 lrc
55 lmc
4/6 casting
45 hci
45 dci
25 swing speed inc
100 dmg inc
20 mr
18 hpr
14 casting focus
40 stat increase
40 + skill increase
eater armor

Do you think the developers had suits like the one above in mind when they designed Chivalry?

Second question, when AoS came out, 25000+ positive karma was not even remotely possible, shouldn't effectiveness be reworked to reflect on this? 25000 Karma and 15 real skill should not be able to render all templates

With 15 real skill, you can't even cast Holy Fist. And unless you have +85 chiv on your jewelry, your defensive spells will be weak as well, since their effectiveness is based on skill and karma. It is not based on karma alone

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Also I think your healing is also based on karma and skill leve

Yes, skill does play a factor I admit...but when chivalry was released top end karma was nowhere near is high or as easy to manage as it is now. It would take hours to have anywhere near 20K...now you can get 30K within an hour, or less if you buy the items you need...

Perhaps I should restate things as, with 120 skill, 4/6 casting, and 25000 or more karma, you can negate every 720-900 skill template in the game.

 

[transcendent]

Yes, skill does play a factor I admit...but when chivalry was released top end karma was nowhere near is high or as easy to manage as it is now. It would take hours to have anywhere near 20K...now you can get 30K within an hour, or less if you buy the items you need...

Perhaps I should restate things as, with 120 skill, 4/6 casting, and 25000 or more karma, you can negate every 720-900 skill template in the game.

Do not forget 120 real weapon skill is also required for max holy fist damage

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

With 15 real skill, you can't even cast Holy Fist

I was pointing out a simple extreme...

The real argument is, with today's gear, chivalry has become OP. It was not a skill designed to supplement the use of 10+ mod armor and weps, it was designed around items that had 10% of the modifiers you find on todays gear.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Do not forget 120 real weapon skill is also required for max holy fist damage

So, I can run a warrior template with no weapon, do so at 4/6 casting, do massive dmg with near unlimited mana and no med while having no weapon, yet with a mage I can only punch for 1 dmg? Seems legit...

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Leave Chivalry as is.

Ok, then lets revert all items back to AoS to make sure it works as intended.

 

[transcendent]

So, I can run a warrior template with no weapon, do so at 4/6 casting, do massive dmg with near unlimited mana and no med while having no weapon, yet with a mage I can only punch for 1 dmg? Seems legit...

What? Why would a warrior go around with no weapon. Also you can't cast Holy fist nonstop. Where did you get this idea? Lol. It has a huge mana cost now. You can only cast it a few times before you run out of mana.

 

[805connection]

Ok, then lets revert all items back to AoS to make sure it works as intended.

I'm not sure what your beef is here, Chiv and holy fist is a spell someone cast you need 120 skill points it takes about as long as a EB and does instant damage and does 30 to 35 damage. 4/6 has no barring on how fast you can fast it, in fact you cast in protection the same speed as 4/6.

chiv heal and curse can still be disrupted, (not and issue) remove curse that is the issue only thing that makes them super overpowered

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

What? Why would a warrior go around with no weapon. Also you can't cast Holy fist nonstop. Where did you get this idea? Lol. It has a huge mana cost now. You can only cast it a few times before you run out of mana.

I was stating you can go without a wep, again with the purpose of showing the discrepancy between a wrestle mage and a wrestle ninja fister. With regard to mana, at 55 lmc, 20+ mr, and 200 mana to play with, there are more than enough fists to go around...huge mana cost or not...you will even have enough mana to dogform, remove curse, ect. when you are done.

 

[transcendent]

I was stating you can go without a wep, again with the purpose of showing the discrepancy between a wrestle mage and a wrestle ninja fister. With regard to mana, at 55 lmc, 20+ mr, and 200 mana to play with, there are more than enough fists to go around...huge mana cost or not...you will even have enough mana to dogform, remove curse, ect. when you are done.

Do you play a fister? Even with 200 mana you can only cast it a few times and you will run out of mana

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

I'm not sure what your beef is here, Chiv and holy fist is a spell someone cast you need 120 skill points it takes about as long as a EB and does instant damage and does 30 to 35 damage. 4/6 has no barring on how fast you can fast it, in fact you cast in protection the same speed as 4/6.

chiv heal and curse can still be disrupted, (not and issue) remove curse that is the issue only thing that makes them super overpowered

I have no beef with you, I do have an issue with Chivalry.

What you are discussing is the mastery, while I started off talking about the skill and how 4/6 casting + high karma negate entire templates.

Again, thats 120 skill and high karma negate entire templates with two spells.

On a final note, when chivalry was released, magery was not capped at 2/6.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Do you play a fister? Even with 200 mana you can only cast it a few times and you will run out of mana

Yes, 22 mr, and 55 lmc. I suggest you re-read the topic of this thread, it involves the chivalry skill and casting speeds, not the chivalry mastery.

But feel free to skip all logical points made so you can full Rainman on me regarding the number of times one can throw a fist...

 

[cobb]

If you're talking about 4/6 chiv without the mastery, well they have been around forever and have not been a problem

 

[Cutter]

Nobody cried about chiv' or its casting speed prior to holy fist. Why should an entire skill be nerfed because a few people want to cry about 1 spell?

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

If you're talking about 4/6 chiv without the mastery, well they have been around forever and have not been a problem

Back when chivalry was released, 10+ mod items were not the standard. It would take you 10 AoS era suits to replicate the amount of stats on just one suit today. Skills have always been adjusted as gear has progressed, shouldn't the same system be followed for chiv?

@Cutter, consider the suits of today vs. the suits available the last time chivalry was given an thorough overhaul. There is no comparison...

 

[Giles]

If 4/6 chiv casting is a problem in PVP, please do not change it in way that affects PVM. It is fine in PVM the way it is