Don't get me wrong. I have NO problem with something being hard. But this just feels to me like somebody completely dropped the ball on something that could have been awesome, and turned it into a hot steaming pile of dog mess.
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Well, spent some time doing the Doom and I have to say, not all that impressed. I agree with another post, where I thought I was doing "Zippy" for a moment.
I hate that the DF teleports himself around all over the damn place, we all look like rats chasing the prize!..way too chaotic. Just when we were down to 1 DF, another one spawned immediately to mess with us! Oh, then there is the healers room that charges way too much for a rez in my opinion but then, there is no door!! so you rez, then get killed by whatever wandered in. A little later on, I guess the healer decided he was tired of us, as he was seen taking a stroll
It was nice seeing people back in Doom like the old days, wish it was a little more "controlled chaos though"
I hate that the DF teleports himself around all over the damn place, we all look like rats chasing the prize!..way too chaotic. Just when we were down to 1 DF, another one spawned immediately to mess with us! Oh, then there is the healers room that charges way too much for a rez in my opinion but then, there is no door!! so you rez, then get killed by whatever wandered in. A little later on, I guess the healer decided he was tired of us, as he was seen taking a stroll
It was nice seeing people back in Doom like the old days, wish it was a little more "controlled chaos though"
Not picking sides here or saying the guys on origin was being fair but tbh ppl complaining about them multiboxing is what caused kronix to make the change trying to slow them down. Do you really think you can try to make something impossible for someone that can script 8+ accounts and not screw over the legit players that does not have the same capability? All they pretty much did was made it harder for the average player to doom (at least alot of them) and made it where the multiboxers can keep on. :/ Before you get into the lets ban everyone that uses 'it' debate (which will never happen bc honestly the majority of the game does even if its just something simple like training a char) its not going to happen. If you ban 1 cheater you ban them all and they will not do that. As long as the ppl isnt afk farming then they will be able to respond to gms. Did you guys not learn from the em drop changes that complaining will still benefit ppl who it has been forever? I am sure its nice to get a drop here and there now if you never got 1 b4 thats good. But imagine how many the ppl you complained about get now and how bad the market is flooded with em items. The same ppl just sell 5 to 10+ of the same drop that they would have got 1-3ish before for less price and still make as much or more profit.
I have no problems with making things more challenging and suitable for certain templates. But as most of us are occasional players with jobs, wife, kids I really dislike 2 things: Stuff that lengthens fights (anon´s earth ele form, the invulnerability of the fleshrenderers) - I hate that. I hate wasting my valuable time when I got 1-2 h playtime each week. And that almost all newer bosses and the revamped pull you in. Thats just annoying. Especially in Fel, when you are trapped between summons and other players. Its not that I cant handle it, I just hate it. Its annoying.
I am fine with everything else, but stealing my time and annoying me is not the perfect strategy for dealing with customers
I am fine with everything else, but stealing my time and annoying me is not the perfect strategy for dealing with customers
I think that is the part that most don't udnerstand. Sure, we can all adapt, we can change, we can do it. But if we don't ENJOY it, then it is dead content. And therein lies the rub
Who said your time is more important than others? Last time I checked there are MANY players all with very different schedules. Those that put in the EFFORT should be rewardedI am fine with everything else, but stealing my time and annoying me is not the perfect strategy for dealing with customers
And those who have a life and can't party up and play for long hours at a time should just leave. I understand now.
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Doom shouldn't be nerfed so that it is solo-able, or so that one template such as tamers, can just sic their pet while the owner stands back and does nothing.
The increase in difficulty, such as the spawning mobs from fighting Dark Fathers while they bounce around or pull you across screen, is a welcome challenge. The days of trapping the Dark Father in the corner are over. The increased Doom rewards make this a worthy challenge.
The increase in difficulty, such as the spawning mobs from fighting Dark Fathers while they bounce around or pull you across screen, is a welcome challenge. The days of trapping the Dark Father in the corner are over. The increased Doom rewards make this a worthy challenge.
I agree with regard to the challenge. I still think the invulnerability is stealing my time and the sucking-in is annoying (everywhere). Legit position, I think. I wanted a Doom revamp for years. I like the changes and the stealables are fantastic. But do all modern Monsters have to be "suckers"? ;-)
Yea totally, lets make it easy for everyone! You can only play 1 hour a week? You should have everything the person who can play 8 hours a week does!
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PAS went in last night, but I was not able to make it, I was late getting in game, (real life bites) did not have a gold skull, but I was listening to them in Vent. DF on a rubber band, and pulling everyone in, even when you dead (ghost) being called back to the DF while your summons or pet continues to battle. Before this revamping of Doom we would lure one DF at a time to an area just near the hidden passage to the lost room (As I call it). There we battle it till it fell then lure another and battle once more. But with the rubber band and the pulling in you are not facing just one DF but all of them.
Great fun isn't it!
i can assure you that there is a way to fight 1 at a time. You just gotta figure out the new AI and were to place yourself. It's definitely possible!
For instance the main hallway coming into doom from the gate. Park your guys right where the hallway meets the main room of the gauntlet. Have 1 person run up and flag just 1 DF and lure it up. preferably a mage who can run up and invis, pull the bar, attack and run up to the group. When it 'rebounds' you're still close enough for it to pathfind it's way back to you.
What? Learn new tactics? Now you are just crazy talking!! *laughs*. I'm a straight mage and personally had a blast in all the chaos of Doom.
It's not just having the time. Using a "Stratics Power Poster" template and suit is also required. Only playing with the "right" crowd is not a necessity but highly encouraged. Anything less and you are, as James said, a weenie
This is the old school way but now add the issue that the DF can/will rebound to a location that is near enough to the other DFs and then it pulls you in. Now all the DFs got you in their gun-sights. Over and over and over....
Ok, some hardcore players can solo everything, but casual players also wants to solo everything. If the hardcore players play 8 hours a day and casual players play 1 hour a day, the difference should be hardcore players get 8 VS 1 drop, may be in a week or so. The hardcore players can get a full set of arties 8 times faster. That is the deal.
You are right! However, in its current state and with respect to PVM-Farming and Events this Game is designed for unemployed pizza-addict IT-Nerds and couchpotatoes lacking a RL which use their Social welfare payments for entertaining UO-Accounts and spend most of their Time with Programming scripts and Setting up multiboxing - or for millionaires and retired elderly People.
Just kidding. With a good Group of People and loot sharing you can achieve anything in this game. More fun than solo anyways.
Sorry for the typos... have to make Food for my sons, enjoy farming...
Just kidding. With a good Group of People and loot sharing you can achieve anything in this game. More fun than solo anyways.
Sorry for the typos... have to make Food for my sons, enjoy farming...
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Doubt I will be bothering if the spawn loots. I am playing siege atm and guaranteed if I get looted they loot my amor, hence no lrc, if i carried regs they would loot them. Can't just whip home and get a new suit, and can't insure anything so mobs that loot are a major problem on siege. Not like you can access a bank to have a 'spare' set, and due to pk's/raiders no point in putting a spare 'suit' down, not to mention that bags with stuff in seem to go 'poof' real quick these days if put on the ground behind a wall etc, for some reason.
I was fighting stuff the other day with necro/looting and on ONE death it took my gloves, chest piece, leggings and sleeves. I was totally pissed off, and no it is NOT fun. Doom stuff shouldn't loot, especially on siege where you cant insure anything. It is not like you can get out easy etc, it takes a while getting gold skulls.
Reading this thread has totally put me off Doom completely.
I was fighting stuff the other day with necro/looting and on ONE death it took my gloves, chest piece, leggings and sleeves. I was totally pissed off, and no it is NOT fun. Doom stuff shouldn't loot, especially on siege where you cant insure anything. It is not like you can get out easy etc, it takes a while getting gold skulls.
Reading this thread has totally put me off Doom completely.
have you tried doom?
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Yes, and it does not require a nerf.
Rooms, no. Dark Father, yes.
I had logged out of Doom a few weeks back, so I logged in this morning. 1 Dark Father and me, I thought I'd see how hard he is.
I cast 1 RC. He teleported me to himself once every *second*, then spawns lich lords and stuff. Since I couldn't run away and I couldn't heal/cure fast enough (even with protection on), I was dead pretty quick. Then the lich lords looted my corpse.
I'm all in favor of harder bosses, but the constant insta-teleport and no ability to run away was awful. I don't need Doom stuff, I just want to have fun, and that wasn't it.
I cast 1 RC. He teleported me to himself once every *second*, then spawns lich lords and stuff. Since I couldn't run away and I couldn't heal/cure fast enough (even with protection on), I was dead pretty quick. Then the lich lords looted my corpse.
I'm all in favor of harder bosses, but the constant insta-teleport and no ability to run away was awful. I don't need Doom stuff, I just want to have fun, and that wasn't it.
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The Dark Father is finally a challenge - and that's what was needed the most in the revamp. If this boss is going to be dropping decent named artifacts and possible clean no-named artifacts, then it needs to be a significant challenge.
Just like with the roof - give it time for people to figure out the best tactics and templates to attack it. Someone will come up with the ideal formula for dealing with the Dark Fathers soon enough, I'm sure.
My issue here is that people seem to be suggesting they want it nerfed to the point that they can just sic their dragon or RC, and stand back and not have to deal with any spawn or any amount of challenge... probably doing it solo. I don't subscribe to the notion this encounter should be solo-able or be able to be completed by mage and tamer templates that require little effort beyond standing back and casting or healing pets.
I really think this is exactly what most people want. I haven't seen anyone requesting a total revert. I'd even keep the teleport you in (just less often) if the DF's didn't teleport away every 3 seconds. (I was there on a sampy and the only time I ever hit him was when I got sucked in)
I don't think you understand what I wrote. The auto Pathfinding by the Mob will come back to you so you do not need to continually run into the mosh pit of DFs. Trust me, there is ways to do this effectively pulling 1 DF at a time.
OOC:
> I haven't seen anyone requesting a total revert.
Let me be the first, then.
I request a complete revert of Doom, then just add the new items to the list of things that drop.
> I haven't seen anyone requesting a total revert.
Let me be the first, then.
I request a complete revert of Doom, then just add the new items to the list of things that drop.
While I'm at it, I request a revert of the Myrmidex Queen to how she was before she threw cocoons in each of eight directions, thereby creating 32 myrmidexes in one go.
How about no? Why should we cater to the vocal minority that cannot figure out effective ways to handle new content?! Are you serious? So lets alienate the players that like a challenge so that the guys on baja can be put on easymode to get their drop in 5 minutes of farming!
Go to sakura and watch them do doom. THEY ARE CRUSHING IT. I thought I came up with a good template, but those guys definitely 1-uped me
Go to sakura and watch them do doom. THEY ARE CRUSHING IT. I thought I came up with a good template, but those guys definitely 1-uped me
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I can understand a slight reduction in the frequency of how often the Dark Father pulls you in... but not completely removing.
Again, if all you're doing is casting an RC or telling your pet "all kill", and expecting to stand back and not have to take some pain... then you're probably in for a surprise.
This encounter forces you to be on your toes... and that's a good thing. It's not for those who expect to passively sit back and cast fireball or e-volt aimlessly while your summon or pet holds it in one position for the entire fight.
Again, if all you're doing is casting an RC or telling your pet "all kill", and expecting to stand back and not have to take some pain... then you're probably in for a surprise.
This encounter forces you to be on your toes... and that's a good thing. It's not for those who expect to passively sit back and cast fireball or e-volt aimlessly while your summon or pet holds it in one position for the entire fight.
The minority weenies from Baja huh? Try reading ALL the posts here and then tell me who is the minority? Even "Super Cheerleader" Merlin agrees some tweaking might be beneficial. (please don't take that as an insult, I'm actually jealous because I'm too @#$%ing ugly to be a cheerleader)
I think reverting doom back to being extremely easy would be a terrible idea. Stop playing an all kill tamer and try something a little more effective (Samp/Wammy).
I have, and there is nowhere near an equal amount of people posting here complaining compared to the amount of people in Doom on Atlantic. So, yea you are a vocal minority and we shouldn't tailor the content to fit your play style.
I am a super cheerleader, too!
I don't either.
Honestly, for me, the problem is that this is still new content, and that A LOT of people are down there. The Dark Fathers are a total ***** when 2-3 are together.
Ok, yeah, Doom is (partially) a challenge now. I'm fine with that. But there is such a thing as it being broken due to poor design, and let's face it, the DFs could use some tweaking. Teleporting you/themselves I don't care about, but the leash makes it complete hell when you have 2-3 DF's in the same spot, and it kicks in at the same time for all of them.
@Old Vet Back Again are any of their current Doom runs on Youtube? I watched one guy solo Slasher a few years ago - I think he was on a Sampire with Healing.
Ask everyone there what they think about ALL the changes. (Without insulting anyone who dares to disagree) Also by this logic, why should I allow a few Atlantic elitists to dictate my playstyle?
The summoning/rebounding/teleporting is dmg based just like the invuln of the flesh. So if you are damaging them all with WW or AoE then yes their 'rebounds' should be like clockwork.
No clue about YouTube. I guess you could search for it.
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Advocating that encounters be difficult doesn't amount to "Super Cheerleading". Any changes that force people to have to possibly play in a group and coordinate together is a welcome change by me. Admittedly, I am biased toward group play since I play in a large guild... but I don't feel that any changes are warranted at this time. Atleast not until there is a lot more data and shared experiences on this.
Fair enough. I was down there two nights ago and there were five Dark fathers that kept on bouncing me from one to the next to the next. I pretty much just had to keep whirlwinding non-stop, eating apples and using confidence and dispel evil when necessary. But these types of examples are the exception... it's doubtful many people (especially outside of Atlantic) will probably run into that situation. I only managed to die twice and received DF blood on 3 of the 5 we were fighting. This was probably the most button mashing my sampire had to do in a long time.
There are ways to coordinate how to deal with this. Obviously, the coordination will go to crap when there are people down there you don't have any form of communication with (i.e., another large guild), but we managed to take care of the 5 Dark Fathers in about 20-25 minutes. Not an impossible task. I think once this dies down a bit and there aren't as many people camping it 24/7, it will be easier for people to segregate the dark fathers so they can take it on in a more measured fashion.
So, Sluggy, are we going to give it another shot on Sunday, only this time invite only the people who have whirlwind* weapons and Curse Weapon* ability?
*I like it when the girls say "nice axe!"
*Bad for my karma, "I'm a baaaaad boy."
*I like it when the girls say "nice axe!"
*Bad for my karma, "I'm a baaaaad boy."
I don't mind challenging content at all. I mean, I spent a good deal of my morning clearing up a city pod down at Blackthorn and had a blast today.
But something about this whole Dark Father ordeal feels boring and like fake difficult. I just couldn't enjoy the fight there.
I would have approached this whole ordeal in another way to make it more dynamic and fun.
Have the DF fight work in phases and have him react to the type of damage he is being dealt.
At some parts of the fight, when he is down to a % of his total life, have him go up a platform where he casts at the players and summons a fair bit of high end, opposite slayer spawn and a sigil. The faster the initial spawn is killed and the sigil is destroyed, the more damage he takes from the destruction of the sigil.
Also, have him react to the type of damage he is suffering. Make him summon a sigil protected by 4, 5 high end mobs in one of the rooms that make him have 90% resistance to that type of damage till the sigil is destroyed. This would require some team work and would be fairly fun to fight.
The way it was done felt like a chore even on my dexxers.
But something about this whole Dark Father ordeal feels boring and like fake difficult. I just couldn't enjoy the fight there.
I would have approached this whole ordeal in another way to make it more dynamic and fun.
Have the DF fight work in phases and have him react to the type of damage he is being dealt.
At some parts of the fight, when he is down to a % of his total life, have him go up a platform where he casts at the players and summons a fair bit of high end, opposite slayer spawn and a sigil. The faster the initial spawn is killed and the sigil is destroyed, the more damage he takes from the destruction of the sigil.
Also, have him react to the type of damage he is suffering. Make him summon a sigil protected by 4, 5 high end mobs in one of the rooms that make him have 90% resistance to that type of damage till the sigil is destroyed. This would require some team work and would be fairly fun to fight.
The way it was done felt like a chore even on my dexxers.
Why should everyone be pigeon holed into playing ONE character template????? Why even bother having other skills ...... why not just make everyone play Sampire/Wammy's??? Forget all the other skills out there if they are going to be continually rendered useless at every situation... Not everyone can play a sampire..... nor do they want to. And IMO most sampires are unable to actually be of any assistance to anyone else since they can only heal themselves... they can't rez anyone or help anyone else... further making the game more and more anti-community.
I personally hate the template... don't like playing don't want to play it... I have one.... almost never play her. Hate it.
But making dungeons so they pretty much cater to only ONE Playstyle pretty much kills the game IMO.
I personally hate the template... don't like playing don't want to play it... I have one.... almost never play her. Hate it.
But making dungeons so they pretty much cater to only ONE Playstyle pretty much kills the game IMO.
I guess we can take a vote tonight at scavenger hunt. but if Wildstar and Amber say no, then I won't.
There are fewer and fewer people left in UO I have any respect for whatsoever, and what I do I try to do for them
and as far as only inviting certain templates with the "right" gear? sorry gotta give you a big HELL NO on that one
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I see a lot of complaints, and no one actually saying anything about the fact that it's just as easy as it ever was. I went in last night, did a full run in 10 min solo, had a friend come in, did 2 more in 10 more. No offense, but what is the problem? Be creative with your templates and stop complaining when you get in to a situation where you have to actually think to play. SW, Necro, and magery all have plenty fine AOE to clear the adds, all resists being at 70-75 aids in keeping non-dexxers alive. Anyone who claims you need mage or medable armor is wrong, a human can wraith form with 0 necro/ss and still pull 8% HMD. Put on some legendaries, make an overcap resist suit, refine it, and take 5% less damage! I don't know what type of tamers you guys are playing, but mine is human so I can wraith for infinite mana(also easier to solo spawns in fel if you can walk through things), and otherwise is 6x 120 mage, eval, vet, lore, tame, SW. I've never died in Doom, never will unless I disconnect, and even then, that's why you bring friends and have them invis you or pull the boss away til you can relog.
And for those of you claiming Sampire as godking... Go play dragoons with a friend & be literally invincible due to xheal + double strike leeches, confidence, evasion, and the additional counterattack hits for more leeches.... and again, get your resists to 75. DCI is a worthless waste of a stat in PVM, period, especially if you run parry & bushido. Yes, I understand that you may say that a dragoon can't solo anywhere near as good as a Sampire... except I do SG, Doom, and everything else in the game alone when my friend isn't around, and yes, I only use 1 account. Certain fights however, such as Exodus, are just significantly easier if I have a friend and xheal so I don't have to run around healing every few hits when I get trucked & cannot rely on leeches from the weapon during my 5s heal timer.
There is no 1 template to beat them all, there is no class that is better than any other for any fight in this game. I will gladly do any fight in any pvm focused template, solo or with friends. Stop complaining, change your play style for the fight, tailor your gear and weapons for the fight, and finish it. Doom is NOT hard, it caters to a certain play style, just like every other peerless/boss encounter in this game does. You wouldn't take a fully kitted Sampire to Travesty if you felt like killing it quickly and you wouldn't take anything but tamers to SG unless you felt like actually thinking during the fight, so why not just play what works for you in the fight instead of complaining? We all have 6-7 char slots per account we own, I know you have more templates to utilize, no one in their right mind would run 7 mages on 1 account considering its a complete waste of space. For instance, I have a dragoon, sampire, crafter, 4xbardmage, prov/mage/tmapper, necro/mage/mystic/weaver, and a tamer/weaver on 1 account. I could utilize any of them for multiple things, but I would not use all of them for everything.
Just because what you brought didn't work out, doesn't mean the fight isn't fun or is too hard. Just means you have to do something different than you're used to. Sorry, change happens, I know its so hard to deal with, but deal with it & git gud.
And for those of you claiming Sampire as godking... Go play dragoons with a friend & be literally invincible due to xheal + double strike leeches, confidence, evasion, and the additional counterattack hits for more leeches.... and again, get your resists to 75. DCI is a worthless waste of a stat in PVM, period, especially if you run parry & bushido. Yes, I understand that you may say that a dragoon can't solo anywhere near as good as a Sampire... except I do SG, Doom, and everything else in the game alone when my friend isn't around, and yes, I only use 1 account. Certain fights however, such as Exodus, are just significantly easier if I have a friend and xheal so I don't have to run around healing every few hits when I get trucked & cannot rely on leeches from the weapon during my 5s heal timer.
There is no 1 template to beat them all, there is no class that is better than any other for any fight in this game. I will gladly do any fight in any pvm focused template, solo or with friends. Stop complaining, change your play style for the fight, tailor your gear and weapons for the fight, and finish it. Doom is NOT hard, it caters to a certain play style, just like every other peerless/boss encounter in this game does. You wouldn't take a fully kitted Sampire to Travesty if you felt like killing it quickly and you wouldn't take anything but tamers to SG unless you felt like actually thinking during the fight, so why not just play what works for you in the fight instead of complaining? We all have 6-7 char slots per account we own, I know you have more templates to utilize, no one in their right mind would run 7 mages on 1 account considering its a complete waste of space. For instance, I have a dragoon, sampire, crafter, 4xbardmage, prov/mage/tmapper, necro/mage/mystic/weaver, and a tamer/weaver on 1 account. I could utilize any of them for multiple things, but I would not use all of them for everything.
Just because what you brought didn't work out, doesn't mean the fight isn't fun or is too hard. Just means you have to do something different than you're used to. Sorry, change happens, I know its so hard to deal with, but deal with it & git gud.