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The drop rate is low, it could take 4-6 hours of farming to accumulate enough points to receive an artifact. On your tamer try standing directly behind your pet and the DF shouldn't pull you in.
Why should every encounter favor a tamer? People asked for diversity and they got it. It's time for you to come up with a viable template and grind. I don't see people complaining about how low the drop rate is on slithers. Put in the work and you get your reward.
This ^ I was let down when I heard that the bosses in shadowguard didn't pop adds on tamers.
Wrong. We are complaining about the Slither-Droprate ALL THE TIME
yes. I'm designing a fighter team just for doom.
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It's all well and good to stand behind your pet to vet it while in battle with the DF, but the first area attack by it or a lich will be your death. And a Mage now? No summons to be cast? Not unless you wish to speak to the DF face to face about that.
"Help, help, a monster actually hit me! I didn't sign up for this!"
You should have realized by now that Mesanna favors sampires. You either play one or you get the boot. She is clueless towards the meaning of non melee classes. In a couple of days when the hype is gone the Doom Gauntlet will be even more dead than it already is.
easy solution to being pulled in by the DF: take a few steps away from him.
if he pulls you back in: rinse and repeat.
the times of just passively sitting there and letting your pet do all the work for you are over but this doesn't mean you will be unable to farm these things.
if he pulls you back in: rinse and repeat.
the times of just passively sitting there and letting your pet do all the work for you are over but this doesn't mean you will be unable to farm these things.
Doom has always been the place for sampires to shine, even way before Mesanna or Broadsword were involved. Although, back in the day gearing your sampire was a lot harder than it is today. So it's not like she specifically designed it now in a way that favours the Sampire.
Nevertheless you can always see a single sampire slaying a dark father in like a minute or two while a tamer stood no chance (besides trapping, even then it took a while). Yet who gets the nerf stick with the teleport garbage? The tamer of course. Why does she keep on screwing the few players which are not making a sampire?
That statement just shows that you are absolutely clueless about tamers. There is no point in talking to you any further.
I am not a fan of mobs that pull players in as that effect "punishes" ranged templates.
Let's be honest, melee templates are designed (both skill and suit wise) for melee defense in close quarter combat. This includes sampires, paladins, etc. Ranged templates are designed differently. Tamers and mages aren't built or even intended for close combat. Logic would dictate that these characters would be at a distance casting offensive spells or healing pets. Pulling those characters in based on some RNG calculation just doesn't make sense to me. Archers and throwers also fit into this group.
Personally I think it makes more "realistic" sense that the mob would retarget in order to chase different attackers based on damage output... that would fit with a more immersive attack AI, rather than some arbitrary teleport effect.
Let's be honest, melee templates are designed (both skill and suit wise) for melee defense in close quarter combat. This includes sampires, paladins, etc. Ranged templates are designed differently. Tamers and mages aren't built or even intended for close combat. Logic would dictate that these characters would be at a distance casting offensive spells or healing pets. Pulling those characters in based on some RNG calculation just doesn't make sense to me. Archers and throwers also fit into this group.
Personally I think it makes more "realistic" sense that the mob would retarget in order to chase different attackers based on damage output... that would fit with a more immersive attack AI, rather than some arbitrary teleport effect.
This made me laugh. It used to take people months at a time of running the gauntlet for hours for a mere chance at receiving an arti.
And that was your idea of fun gaming? I do remember that, I never went to doom then. But you know what else I remember? Due to complaints they fixed the drop rate, and it was well received and actually many posters here wanted that model for everything from EM drops on down. Why fix the one thing that wasn't broken?
4-6 hours? What kind of template are you using? For a solo tamer, the rooms should only take 20 minutes tops. A sampire gets an entire (pre-revamp) trip done in under 10 minutes.
I mean, sure, I would like to use my thrower(s) against the Dark Father, but I have 2 sampires (that I could easily convert into whammies, which I'm not going to do.) I'm not going to worry about using a less effective template against a 14 year old boss, especially when I have a superior option available.
I think Skittles meant 4 to 6 hours of farming total to accumulate enough "points" to be eligible for a drop. Which is ok. The problem is myself and several others I know are 4-5 times over that 4-6 hour mark
I do have acess to a tamer and used to play it quite often until recently. I used to farm shadowguard with one and when you fight Juo'nar there he will do exactly what the DF does now: he pulls you in and casts necro spells. Everytime he did all I had to do was take a few steps back to get out of his wither range and I was fine. Why not be open to other people's experiences and advice?
OK You do understand that Mesanna predates DOOM and Sampires and you have ZERO knowledge as to her influence during her employment with UO.
That's a joke, right?
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The derp is strong in this thread.
The tamers and mages I know that have tested this, have had no issues. Of course, they actually work the DF as a TEAM, as originally intended.
Things like a level 6 Spellweaver's Gift of Renewal (and I don't know of any mages or mystics anymore that DON'T have spellweaving too - and a human can cast GoR at 0 skill if they do the quest, at a decent effect with a level 6 focus) cast on the tamer, as they tame up close. Similarly, a bard using provo mastery can buff and heal the whole party, while using their provo skills on the lower spawn (and if they join the stack of characters, can provo onto the DF without being teleported).
Mages and Mystics can get credit for cross-healing, and my own mystic/Mage/Weaver sits under the tamers I work with - one or two steps away from the DF. Just like everyone else. At that proximity, I don't get teleported to the DF (or any other monster that teleports to you, or you to it - try it in the Shadowguard orchard some time), and can cast RCs and nether vortex at will with no fear of getting sucked into the DF (and only LL and rotters don't die from a NV with an undead slayer book, and the LL just take 2 castings, maybe 3 at low SDI. The Rotters are best provoed onto the DF by the party bard).
As long as the DF doesn't find a way past the GDs, I'm safe from everything but the area attacks.
For the love of Kek, for once REMEMBER what the 2nd M in MMO stands for, and actually MAKE FRIENDS AND PLAY TOGETHER!!!! UO is not a solo game!
The tamers and mages I know that have tested this, have had no issues. Of course, they actually work the DF as a TEAM, as originally intended.
Things like a level 6 Spellweaver's Gift of Renewal (and I don't know of any mages or mystics anymore that DON'T have spellweaving too - and a human can cast GoR at 0 skill if they do the quest, at a decent effect with a level 6 focus) cast on the tamer, as they tame up close. Similarly, a bard using provo mastery can buff and heal the whole party, while using their provo skills on the lower spawn (and if they join the stack of characters, can provo onto the DF without being teleported).
Mages and Mystics can get credit for cross-healing, and my own mystic/Mage/Weaver sits under the tamers I work with - one or two steps away from the DF. Just like everyone else. At that proximity, I don't get teleported to the DF (or any other monster that teleports to you, or you to it - try it in the Shadowguard orchard some time), and can cast RCs and nether vortex at will with no fear of getting sucked into the DF (and only LL and rotters don't die from a NV with an undead slayer book, and the LL just take 2 castings, maybe 3 at low SDI. The Rotters are best provoed onto the DF by the party bard).
As long as the DF doesn't find a way past the GDs, I'm safe from everything but the area attacks.
For the love of Kek, for once REMEMBER what the 2nd M in MMO stands for, and actually MAKE FRIENDS AND PLAY TOGETHER!!!! UO is not a solo game!
Maybe they should add abilities to certain mobs that push people away upon being hit which would favor ranged attackers... of course you could just pull it up to a wall so it couldn't push you... Unless the mob had a short leash and couldn't be lured to a wall. =X
They'd have to make it only work on players and not their pets for it to be at all successful.
They'd have to make it only work on players and not their pets for it to be at all successful.
Don't think they work on monsters that actually yoink you to them with a spell, which the Harrower is also capable of doing.
UO has been a solo game for the last 4 years. No one wants to go do things as a group then they would have to share the chance at the drop. That's why everyone plays sampires now.... so they can solo everything in the game.
It's the drop-rates that cause the solo-play.
people run sampires because they heal, deal damage, & take damage all at the same time without slowing down, which takes minimal effort to maintain against most mobs.
Armor Ignore makes Weapon-users the best option against anything with 50%+ resistances. (double strike for targets lower than 50%)
Slowest Swing-speed limits make Melee the best option. -you can't attack slower than the base weapon speed + Swing Speed increase, without being Debuffed by certain things, lady mel's AoE slow for example.
The damage Increase cap (slayers, honor, etc) for dexers allows them to deal nearly 3x the amount of damage than non-dexers. = best option.
Vampire form/Curse weapon (due to the damage dexers are able to deal) allow them to fight without moving because they heal a flat % of damage dealt.
There are only a few mobs with the "Corrupted Life Leech" ability which causes the Life leech to damage the user instead of healing them. Corgul, Craze/Burning Mages (Shame) & Scalis are the only ones with that.
I think doom's system is actually geared to reward parties. Each boss you kill every player has a Chance to get the drop, if you don't get a drop this % Chance goes up. This is the system they built a lot of other content around. I could be wrong though.
There are also some other mobs with abilities that make sampires useless, Exodus doesn't allow life leeching at all, basically everything in Eodon disarms constantly and the ability they added with the expansion that was supposed to protect against disarm never actually worked, dragon turtle disarms and for some reason seems to be next to impossible to hit, I want to say the Shadowlord encounter has something to reduce their effectiveness but given nobody ever does it I've never done it either. I think I recall the Myrmidex Queen has something else against melee too.
It could be, but I know things like Medusa, can't drop more than 1 "rare" item per kill.
So basically if you kill it solo (with just 1 account) it's 5% drop-rate on the "rare" drops. /5 = 1.0% chance for a specific item (slither)
for each person you take with you it cuts your chance to get the drop by however many people go with you.
More clients doesn't increase your drop-rate on SA peerlesses, But it can speed up the kills which would result in more overall gain.
I'm not sure about Doom, but I've never gotten 2 drops from the same kill there (granted, I haven't farmed doom with more than 1 client in forever) so it may be different there.
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yea, myrmidex queen does that poison you need to run from or it becomes impossible to cure. the ground-spikes as well, but you can survive that with enough HPI and hope RNG doesn't allow you to "miss" when it counts. =D
Tamers & Mages can still do Doom just fine. Being pulled doesn't matter on any monster providing you've set your character up properly with some melee defense (Mage Weapon etc.) I'm endlessly posting about this in the Spellcasters professional forum. It's the number #1 reason most PvM/only ever played tram players die (that and trying to step/heal/step), not understanding the game mechanics leaving off things that are pretty vital, especially when you know you're going to be fighting Necro casters. With melee defense it's pretty easy to just stand there and kill anything hitting you.
Edit: I think the drop rates are irritatingly low. I think the Provoke/Peace and Armour Ignore restrictions are really stupid.
Edit: I think the drop rates are irritatingly low. I think the Provoke/Peace and Armour Ignore restrictions are really stupid.
yea, I can't help by *sigh* whenever I see a Max luck suit built for a mage, that has a SC weapon that's not a -mage weapon.... - magery = more effective than 14 DCI (lol?).. everytime.
I was thinking of bringing a pure bard down there, so does no bard skills work on any rooms or the DF?
Thanks in advance, have not been able to go to test this time around.
Cheers
OOC:
I didn't get pulled into the darkfathers on Sunday. I was a tamer with a greater dragon pet.
I noticed:
o Some of the teleport tiles that go into the rooms are invisible now
o Some of the monsters are more willing to change target
o the fleshrenderers can go invulnerable. When they change back to attackable, they will move adjacent to their target at faster-than-running speed.
o The darkfather now "spawns" friends instead of having to throw bones at people that later hatch
o Named ancient lich? Ouch. Blood elemental? OUCH.
o The "drop rate" has decreased. Back in the Doom Train heyday, everyone got one drop per hour. We had a large group Sunday, going two hours, and (as far as I know) no one got anything.
I didn't get pulled into the darkfathers on Sunday. I was a tamer with a greater dragon pet.
I noticed:
o Some of the teleport tiles that go into the rooms are invisible now
o Some of the monsters are more willing to change target
o the fleshrenderers can go invulnerable. When they change back to attackable, they will move adjacent to their target at faster-than-running speed.
o The darkfather now "spawns" friends instead of having to throw bones at people that later hatch
o Named ancient lich? Ouch. Blood elemental? OUCH.
o The "drop rate" has decreased. Back in the Doom Train heyday, everyone got one drop per hour. We had a large group Sunday, going two hours, and (as far as I know) no one got anything.
Discord "Should" Still work just fine. if you have magery on your suit you could use a ranged mage weapon with cameo or slayer on the weapon and still hit for decent damage against certain mobs for loot rights. On top of the discord mastery for damage. If you are in a group one of the peace or provo buffs.
If Shadowguard favors tamers, then I see no problem with the Gauntlet favoring sampires.
Right on. Any character without some sort of melee defense deserves to be endlessly killed by any sort of decent monster. If someone can't be bothered to include wrestling, or a weapon skill, or eval + anat, or a mage weapon, or ANYTHING, then I hope they enjoy their dirtnap. All I see are a bunch of crybabies mad that a monster actually had the audacity to hit them.
You guys can cry about sampires all you want. We're the only ones that actually get hit by monsters on a regular basis. Like in the absence of some sort of gimmick, I have no idea how an archer ever dies in PVM at all. What, do you just run around in circles shooting and not looking at your health bar until the monster eventually whittles you down with flamestrikes or something?
As a sampire I feel entitled to rule over the rest of you like a god. Casting RC, going invis, and tabbing out to watch porn while you PVM shouldn't be good for killing anything tougher than ettins. Put it back in your pants and try engaging in some combat. It might involve getting hit.
Kneel.
Archer dies same way anyone else does... even with DCI and all 70's whatever on the suit my Archer can NOT stand toe to toe with most newer mobs... I'm not getting a heal back from leeching... I have to actually use bandages and/or pots... which since these things get interrupted or are on cool downs and everything and such I die quite a bit when I do 200+ damage on an AI and earn all the mobs hate enough that it breaks past all the 25 dragons attacking it and comes STRAIGHT for me like a bullet with one goal in mind..... and when it hits me for 80 damage per swing, swings at .5 seconds and the lag freezes you and fails to even register that the thing moved at warp speed right next to me yes I die... nearly instantaneously though in the EC death can take up to a full 60 seconds to "finalize" meanwhile your screen is locked up tight and you can't do anything at all but say "gonna need a rez"... Though it usually has more expletives...
Also die quite often to killing myself when the mob suddenly hits me with Blood Oath and I have already shot my arrow with AI and hit myself for 150+ damage... death comes instantly.
haha great point! This never even occured to me. I always assumed noone went out to PvM without at least some sort of basic defence...I am probably wrong...
Ah no, actually a pure Bard can solo the whole thing with two instruments. Discord/Despair/Tribulation in all the rooms. Discord the DF's and Provoke the spawn. There's two good methods for the DF one is more offensive than the other so depends how good you are with movement/healing. Either Discord Mastery active, drop a few EV's so it generates spawn, Provoke it on to him, once he's fairly tangled up you can Despair/Tribulation on him, obviously when you do you're going to get boned to f, so this works better if you can pot, and spam some lesser heals on yourself you can get some good extra damage in. I haven't tried this method on the updated gauntlet, so the other summon thing he does may balls it up. The defensive option is you have the Provoke Mastery active, Discord the DF, use the Prov Mastery to heal yourself and your Provokes easier. You could also use Peace to heal if you have 18 HPR on your suit as well but personally I prefer the Provoke, you have to cure yourself for heals to get through so if you're running no Resist either petal, pot or remember to Cure. This could also work on a template that combined it with Mysticism using Stone Form as you would be un-poisonable so your Prov would heal you constantly, plus give you extra resists, plus you could Colossus... only issue would be either not having a Mage Weapon and having to move constantly or drop Peace for Magery which would lower the effectiveness of all your Spellsongs. I tried this method and it's harder than pure Bard.
What you can't Provoke is Flesh Renderers on to Flesh Renderers, DF's on to DF's etc. Which I have long protested against. Because firstly they should be spawning enough of them that it's still a danger to everyone, they should have high enough failure rate to be a thread, and they counter attack all damage with bones, which as well as Necro spells cause re-targeting, they could also have it just wear off after a set amount of time. But instead they've opted to say 'you can't provoke that' on almost every boss monster added for the last x years effectively nerfing it as an option. They've also added a block to Armour Ignore which pretty much nerfs Throwers from taking part.
What's this about? I don't want to have to use all double-swing weapons.
Unless it got removed going on to prod then several of the rooms, possibly all of them, don't allow Armour Ignore. I remember clearly Abysmal Horrors, and Impalers didn't, maybe it's just the Demon ones.
Double Strike with Onslaught is better than AI though If you're Swords, anyway.
Well, not always.
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That doesn't exactly work for a mage.