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NEWS [UO.Com] Combat Changes in Testing

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Kiss Of Death

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What I don't understand is that these players never pvp!!!! They cry about things not op at all , like a trapped chest or a supernova!!! And they don't talk about how stupid is to have ninja+ chivalry + wrestling all on the same toon.... at 4/6 ...clearly there is something wrong.
 

OREOGL

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@PaithanTheElf Bleak did ask about force walk last night while I was there. I suggested that splinter should only do one or the other when used. Either it bleeds and doesn't force walk, or force walks and doesn't bleed. I believe he took down the information but didn't say anything about changes to it.
Ah, so the goal here is to make splinter pointless. Especially on forks...

Good to know
 

drcossack

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What I don't understand is that these players never pvp!!!! They cry about things not op at all , like a trapped chest or a supernova!!! And they don't talk about how stupid is to have ninja+ chivalry + wrestling all on the same toon.... at 4/6 ...clearly there is something wrong.
You can't nerf around gear. It becomes a total mess...and besides, not everyone has the items to run a template like that.
 

virem

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The delay is a half second as of yesterday and is at the user's location.


There are no additional changes planned for splintering at this time.

I will be on TC later today. Be sure to check out the latest notes that are available for testing on TC.;)
Yah, dunno why focus spec is being changed at all at this point.
 

Kiss Of Death

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Crossack why u make me facepalm everyday? It's the easiest toon to make:

120 wrestling
120 chiv ( both real)
120 resist
120 parry
100 ninja
Then add alchy and... weaving for ex.

Gg , very easy no? Easy suit, cheap. Nothing fancy.
 

PaithanTheElf

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There's 3 people that use this with any sort of success... The rest die miserably trying it. The disarm / splinter was the nerf they wanted to be made. Which I don't even agree with either and that doesn't benefit me in any way whatsoever. Splinter is a hit spell the same as Hit harm or Hit lower D. The stack currently and that is why they spawn less frequently and cost an arm and a leg.
Well this "hit spell" as you call it- has the same effect as a special (bleed) AND walks you. That would be a powerful special BY ITSELF. It can be stacked with other specials. Having 2 specials for the price of one hit at the same time is insanely overpowered. The only people that would disagree are people that need it to attempt to be competitive.

The cost is determined by the market and that is because everyone knows how overpowered it is currently- so not sure what your point is on that.
 

OREOGL

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Yah, dunno why focus spec is being changed at all at this point.
I don't get it either, but I'll take 5 sdi.

The question is what the hell is on the focus restriction list?

If they say parry or alchemy I'm going to beat my head into a wall...
 

PaithanTheElf

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Rofl , paithan are u high?

Just because your buddy uses focus attack to go for splinter without any specials u want to ruin splinter for the 99% of the dexers?

Please hide in a corner
I'd be all for focus attack not working with splintering wep. Next?
 

Great DC

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So focus spec is back now? Is that what im reading or is just overall cap at 25 SDI?
 

OREOGL

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Well this "hit spell" as you call it- has the same effect as a special (bleed) AND walks you. That would be a powerful special BY ITSELF. It can be stacked with other specials. Having 2 specials for the price of one hit at the same time is insanely overpowered. The only people that would disagree are people that need it to attempt to be competitive.

The cost is determined by the market and that is because everyone knows how overpowered it is currently- so not sure what your point is on that.
Arguably isn't that why the hit % is much lower than other caps?

So we want to limit it and make it do one or the other, especially on weapons that can already bleed?

Doesn't seem like a rational argument to me.
 

OREOGL

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Focus list is the same as live.

Do you ever feel like you're being dragged in circles?

Thanks for all the effort you've put into this. I'm sure it's been just as painful for you...
 

PaithanTheElf

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In order to use splinter you're giving up something on your wep, be it lower D or something. If you're playing a mage and using a splinter wep, you're giving up parry and defense. The reason the OP brought splintering up is because they get demolished whenever they fight a mage with splintering, not a dexer. That's all that is. Keep in mind, that person plays a fister, ninja, SW character on the field currently... Complaining about something being OP when you field that template is laughable to say the least.

If you have noticed, I've not tried to get anything nerfed at all. Not even that weak ****** template. I've actually tried getting the SDI cap for mages, the archer changes reverted to the original changes and get the nova's left alone. I've tried to keep pvp the real focus here and get decent changes made. I've been at TC testing with @Bleak trying to find compromises. I'm here for the greater good, not to try to nerf things that I feel can cause me issues.
If you are talking about me.. i have literally never died to it one v one. I also play a mage as my main. I do recall you playing a fister during the 48 damage era getting dominated 5 v 10+. lolz.

But anyways, everything I have suggested nerfs everyone of my templates in one way shape or form. You just cry if I talk about something you use. It clearly doesn't matter it group fights anyways (lol @ you guys).
 

PaithanTheElf

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Arguably isn't that why the hit % is much lower than other caps?

So we want to limit it and make it do one or the other, especially on weapons that can already bleed?

Doesn't seem like a rational argument to me.
It should proc on normal wep hits. Just not with specials. If you think 2 specials going off and walking all at the same time is somehow fair, please elaborate.
 

Great DC

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IF you bring focus spec back with no new restrictions then were back at square one again? Nothing will change as the focus mage has the best template again. The parry healing mage or parry alchy mage will still be the FOTM template. I don't understand why this seems so difficult, we need to bring the balance down on parry mages and archers and everything seems to circle back around and make them the best again.
 

virem

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@Bleak how come spell plague damage isn't modified by SDI or scribe? Why is it the only spell in the game not getting buffed. I am not home to log on TC.
 

Mervyn

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Is nobody going to address the elephant in the room about "PvP balancing?"


How about you make it so that people on EC can't run twice as fast as people on CC and see twice as far and instantly change suits?
How about you make it so blues actually lose their buffs (town bonus buff) when they die?
 

kelmo

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I do not believe I have ever felt so unwelcomed on Stratics as I have in this thread. A hostile environment where questions or observations are not welcomed unless you are one of a self proclaimed elite few. *shakes head*
 

Lord Frodo

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I do not believe I have ever felt so unwelcomed on Stratics as I have in this thread. A hostile environment where questions or observations are not welcomed unless you are one of a self proclaimed elite few. *shakes head*
AMEN Kind of reminds me of this

Narcissistic Personality Disorder involves arrogant behavior, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration-all of which must be consistently evident at work and in relationships. People who are narcissistic are frequently described as cocky, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding.
 

OREOGL

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It should proc on normal wep hits. Just not with specials. If you think 2 specials going off and walking all at the same time is somehow fair, please elaborate.
Well "fair" is a matter subjectivity really. The hit cap is what 30%? along with the high durability drop to go along with each proc.

I agree with the disarm splinter nerf because you shouldn't be bled, forced walked and have blocking reduced all in one hit.

But since it is a hit spell it should go off on any other special or auto attack. Otherwise we should begin considering nerfing weapons that can nail you with double hit spells.
 

Aeyko

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If you are talking about me.. i have literally never died to it one v one. I also play a mage as my main. I do recall you playing a fister during the 48 damage era getting dominated 5 v 10+. lolz.

But anyways, everything I have suggested nerfs everyone of my templates in one way shape or form. You just cry if I talk about something you use. It clearly doesn't matter it group fights anyways (lol @ you guys).
You're joking right? Lmao... There's a reason you want nothing to do with me 1v1 ever. Don't derail this thread like you do every other one which ends in you ducking me like your guild does.

I do not believe I have ever felt so unwelcomed on Stratics as I have in this thread. A hostile environment where questions or observations are not welcomed unless you are one of a self proclaimed elite few. *shakes head*
If you feel unwelcomed it's possibly because you come into a pvp thread and either make accusations or changes that make zero sense based on nothing but your feelings.

AMEN Kind of reminds me of this

Narcissistic Personality Disorder involves arrogant behavior, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration-all of which must be consistently evident at work and in relationships. People who are narcissistic are frequently described as cocky, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding.
Same goes to you Frodo, you do nothing but angrily rant and provide no help to the thread nor do you bother to show up to testing on TC. Normally weaker people will be the first to call confident people Narcissist, when in fact you're crippled way of thinking is often tossed aside not our of narcissism but due to the fact that you're not bringing value to conversation.

Focus spec is back just reduced to 25 sdi
This is a middle ground compromise. @Bleak my hats off to you for doing your best to make the necessary adjustments to focus spec, now if we can just leave the list as it is on production shard now, we'll be going in the right direction.
 

PaithanTheElf

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You're joking right? Lmao... There's a reason you want nothing to do with me 1v1 ever. Don't derail this thread like you do every other one which ends in you ducking me like your guild does.
What is our 1v1 record? Me-a lot you-1? Ok, thanks for clarifying.

@OREOGL I don't think the devs thought about how powerful they made that "hit spell." I haven't tested any of the changes to the new hit spells, but they looked like they weren't well thought out either.
 

Giggles

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Well... its still not where we need to be yet, but thank you for the 25% focus spec.

Lets just leave mage tampering alone until we are ready to address the "OP" nature of several builds. When that happens, I will go back to advocating to have parry on the focus restriction list. My reasons behind that are still the same.
 

Aeyko

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What is our 1v1 record? Me-a lot you-1? Ok, thanks for clarifying.

@OREOGL I don't think the devs thought about how powerful they made that "hit spell." I haven't tested any of the changes to the new hit spells, but they looked like they weren't well thought out either.
You haven't tested them but you have an opinion? Good job. I have tested them and while they are new, can be worked around and seem to have been thought out well in the same hit chances of 20% as of most splinter weps.

LMAO @ your record bs. That's the same as me claiming to be up on @Revan123 in pure mage duels because I only dueled him a few times this year and many times in the 2009/2010. It's 2016 little guy. Anytime you'd like I can educate you on where you stand against me individually. In fact, I already have had lots of fun embarrassing your pitiful spell play in front of @Forsaken and @pepsi cola uo several times. Pepsi's exact words were "It's not even a comparison"... Don't get it twisted grasping at straws and making attempts to derail threads that you have shown no attempt to test or bring ANY value to the game. Mickey mouse chicken tactics from the possum himself @Kiss Of Death , we should be used to this by now.
 

OREOGL

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I do not believe I have ever felt so unwelcomed on Stratics as I have in this thread. A hostile environment where questions or observations are not welcomed unless you are one of a self proclaimed elite few. *shakes head*

Not really. I was told I had the most idiotic argument in a runic cap thread when I told them it was probably lower due to duping.

Or

In a different thread had a moderator tell me I had "stuff" between my ears. I don't even recall why, but it's not important. I don't take anything personally.

It's not just PVPers. The only difference is the argument about game mechanics and the expectation that people know how to discuss them rationally or at the very least be able to support their arguments.


I guess there is always the option to avoid the thread.
 

Great DC

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Everyone has the right to have their opinions heard. What I think is funny is when people take someone's suggestions in a conversation thread as a personal attack on their playstyle. Its not like their opinion on the subject is guaranteeing any change in the game. Just like I choose to basically not pvp right now cause its boring fighting the same two-three templates in the game. Everything is too predictable and not very challenging.

The current list from today is gonna keep the same templates and remove any more versatility again. The moving shot nerf is very weak and will make no difference other then it may take an additional shot to finish.(Ive tested this). The focus spec coming back will make everyone stay on high powered/defensive parry mages. Only good thing that will come out of this is raising base SDI to 20.
 

OREOGL

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What is our 1v1 record? Me-a lot you-1? Ok, thanks for clarifying.

@OREOGL I don't think the devs thought about how powerful they made that "hit spell." I haven't tested any of the changes to the new hit spells, but they looked like they weren't well thought out either.
It's possible but as if now, I don't see enough of a reason to nerf it.

As far as the new weapons I haven't really tested them much other than a couple in the first day they came out.

Tonight perhaps.
 

Aeyko

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Everyone has the right to have their opinions heard. What I think is funny is when people take someone's suggestions in a conversation thread as a personal attack on their playstyle. Its not like their opinion on the subject is guaranteeing any change in the game. Just like I choose to basically not pvp right now cause its boring fighting the same two-three templates in the game. Everything is too predictable and not very challenging.

The current list from today is gonna keep the same templates and remove any more versatility again. The moving shot nerf is very weak and will make no difference other then it may take an additional shot to finish.(Ive tested this). The focus spec coming back will make everyone stay on high powered/defensive parry mages. Only good thing that will come out of this is raising base SDI to 20.
This is your opinion. But I can personally tell you that it will have an effect on my templates and the templates of my teammates. These are good changes headed in the right direction for the greater good. That is my opinion, as you stated we're free to our opinions but I am also stating facts in that our templates will diversify from the current changes alone.
 

Lord Frodo

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You're joking right? Lmao... There's a reason you want nothing to do with me 1v1 ever. Don't derail this thread like you do every other one which ends in you ducking me like your guild does.



If you feel unwelcomed it's possibly because you come into a pvp thread and either make accusations or changes that make zero sense based on nothing but your feelings.



Same goes to you Frodo, you do nothing but angrily rant and provide no help to the thread nor do you bother to show up to testing on TC. Normally weaker people will be the first to call confident people Narcissist, when in fact you're crippled way of thinking is often tossed aside not our of narcissism but due to the fact that you're not bringing value to conversation.



This is a middle ground compromise. @Bleak my hats off to you for doing your best to make the necessary adjustments to focus spec, now if we can just leave the list as it is on production shard now, we'll be going in the right direction.
TY TY TY I need a god laugh. I am so glad that UO hired you as their resident expert, oh wait they didn't.
 

OREOGL

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Everyone has the right to have their opinions heard. What I think is funny is when people take someone's suggestions in a conversation thread as a personal attack on their playstyle. Its not like their opinion on the subject is guaranteeing any change in the game. Just like I choose to basically not pvp right now cause its boring fighting the same two-three templates in the game. Everything is too predictable and not very challenging.

The current list from today is gonna keep the same templates and remove any more versatility again. The moving shot nerf is very weak and will make no difference other then it may take an additional shot to finish.(Ive tested this). The focus spec coming back will make everyone stay on high powered/defensive parry mages. Only good thing that will come out of this is raising base SDI to 20.
The moving shot nerf addressed the resist difference and high damage it was doing.

As of the other night I think I was doing 22 points every 3 of 4 shots against Aekyo.

This is reasonable.
 

elster

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uh oh. the stratics safe space is being threatened by these mean, nasty PVPers! Better ban all these undesirables!
 
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Obsidian

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So base SDI cap for PvP is 20... and focus spec brings it to 25...

Seems like too little an incentive to run focused. What else can they add? Maybe a free mod for focused such as FC 1 or CF 5?
 

Giggles

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I do not believe I have ever felt so unwelcomed on Stratics as I have in this thread. A hostile environment where questions or observations are not welcomed unless you are one of a self proclaimed elite few. *shakes head*
I am not one of the elite few, self proclaimed or otherwise. But I have been adding my two cents to the changes. I think the problem happens when people are requesting stuff that others feel will break the game even more, and they don't present a reason. I have been advocating to add parry to the focus restriction list, a concept that some of the "elite few" as you call them aren't too fond of. But I try to present reasons and logic with my argument. Thats different than just saying "mages shouldn't have parry". If I said that, it won't be well received, and I don't give any reasons to explain myself. I think all pvpers globally are concerned of someone requesting something ridiculous and it going into effect without any real rhyme or reason. And its not unfair to say that several people who do not pvp often try to add their 2 cents. Not that they shouldn't be allowed to, but some sort of reason should be provided as to why.
 

virem

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The moving shot nerf addressed the resist difference and high damage it was doing.

As of the other night I think I was doing 22 points every 3 of 4 shots against Aekyo.

This is reasonable.
Is the new swing speed damage reduction thing making it do less damage overall or what? 22 is what it was before that change as far as I remember.
 

PaithanTheElf

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You haven't tested them but you have an opinion? Good job. I have tested them and while they are new, can be worked around and seem to have been thought out well in the same hit chances of 20% as of most splinter weps.

LMAO @ your record bs. That's the same as me claiming to be up on @Revan123 in pure mage duels because I only dueled him a few times this year and many times in the 2009/2010. It's 2016 little guy. Anytime you'd like I can educate you on where you stand against me individually. In fact, I already have had lots of fun embarrassing your pitiful spell play in front of @Forsaken and @pepsi cola uo several times. Pepsi's exact words were "It's not even a comparison"... Don't get it twisted grasping at straws and making attempts to derail threads that you have shown no attempt to test or bring ANY value to the game. Mickey mouse chicken tactics from the possum himself @Kiss Of Death , we should be used to this by now.
You never beat me before 2016. And you are down on me in 2016 w/ 1 win (ever). Who cares what pepsi said in a fight where you were redlined 5 times and I wasn't low? lol. Anyways, take it to the hot boards you try hard.

I didn't clarify about the specials. I tested them when they first came out (overpowered). My guildmate told me they have updated them to be not as bad- I have not tested that update. Will try to in the next day or two and report my findings.
 

Great DC

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The moving shot nerf addressed the resist difference and high damage it was doing.

As of the other night I think I was doing 22 points every 3 of 4 shots against Aekyo.

This is reasonable.
It does 17-22 damage without any hit spell or velocity. If they proc it still gonna be a 30 damage moving shot. The problem isn't the damage as much as it is the speed and endless ability to use it. I mean right now you can literally moving shot someone like 15-20 times straight with the basically endless mana due to 55 lmc combed with combat lmc bonus. Like I said only thing that will change is it make take an additional shot. Don't get me wrong though its slightly better then it was but its not fixed by any means whatsoever.
 

kelmo

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I do not believe I have made a single suggestion or comment on PvP changes. I was commenting on the environment in which these discussions are taking place.
 

elster

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I do not believe I have made a single suggestion or comment on PvP changes. I was commenting on the environment in which these discussions are taking place.
WTF? Then why are you even in this thread?
 

PaithanTheElf

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I am not one of the elite few, self proclaimed or otherwise. But I have been adding my two cents to the changes. I think the problem happens when people are requesting stuff that others feel will break the game even more, and they don't present a reason. I have been advocating to add parry to the focus restriction list, a concept that some of the "elite few" as you call them aren't too fond of. But I try to present reasons and logic with my argument. Thats different than just saying "mages shouldn't have parry". If I said that, it won't be well received, and I don't give any reasons to explain myself. I think all pvpers globally are concerned of someone requesting something ridiculous and it going into effect without any real rhyme or reason. And its not unfair to say that several people who do not pvp often try to add their 2 cents. Not that they shouldn't be allowed to, but some sort of reason should be provided as to why.
I am not sure why a suggested solution has not been to lower the parry % as well. 35% at 120 is probably not helping anything. I also would not mind parry lowering damage output (I have parry on all my chars).
 

OREOGL

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Is the new swing speed damage reduction thing making it do less damage overall or what? 22 is what it was before that change as far as I remember.
Good question, I recall auto attacks and running shot doing about equivalent damage. It was 22 for running shot and I had auto attacks doing 23.

If I understood it correctly, right now, you reduce damage every .25 seconds after .75 from base speed.

So for a 4s dropping it to 1.25 would reduced it potentially 8 times (2s/.25s) to whatever the minimum base damage is for that weapon and miss you have.
Ie if it's 67-72, it'd be 67.(62 was a typo)

I've yet to try that out to see if it's still the same.
 

OREOGL

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It does 17-22 damage without any hit spell or velocity. If they proc it still gonna be a 30 damage moving shot. The problem isn't the damage as much as it is the speed and endless ability to use it. I mean right now you can literally moving shot someone like 15-20 times straight with the basically endless mana due to 55 lmc combed with combat lmc bonus. Like I said only thing that will change is it make take an additional shot. Don't get me wrong though its slightly better then it was but its not fixed by any means whatsoever.
Well man, I can tell you that when I tested it multiple times I did not chain running shot once.

Could it happen, maybe, I mean that's RNG for you.

But for now all I can really say is that the hci drop seems adequate to help prevent that from happening.
 

Aeyko

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TY TY TY I need a god laugh. I am so glad that UO hired you as their resident expert, oh wait they didn't.
Someone please explain why this guy is still here?

I do not believe I have made a single suggestion or comment on PvP changes. I was commenting on the environment in which these discussions are taking place.
If you haven't made a suggestion then what exactly is your purpose posting opinions? I've done my best to explain each change and even logged on TC to help Bleak see in game what I am talking about. Is the environment hostile? Yea, look at your counterpart that I quoted above... Always angry posting with opinions and bringing no value to the conversation. Simply here to troll people.

So base SDI cap for PvP is 20... and focus spec brings it to 25...

Seems like too little an incentive to run focused. What else can they add? Maybe a free mod for focused such as FC 1 or CF 5?
I like where your head is at. However, it was extremely hard to get the 25 sdi. We tested many spell buffs and multiple changes to justify having the SDI bumped for focus spec mages while leaving the focus spec list alone. Bleak kindly made the adjustment to 25 sdi, which seems fair.

You never beat me before 2016. And you are down on me in 2016 w/ 1 win (ever). Who cares what pepsi said in a fight where you were redlined 5 times and I wasn't low? lol. Anyways, take it to the hot boards you try hard.

I didn't clarify about the specials. I tested them when they first came out (overpowered). My guildmate told me they have updated them to be not as bad- I have not tested that update. Will try to in the next day or two and report my findings.
You're still here? And still lying because I do not have my old PC with screenshots of you. GG lying about a 20 year old wizard game. To add to the point, you've tested nothing. You're a liar and a troll. If you had tested the 0 tactics, you'd have seen 0 tacts AI's do 20hp damage (Not worth the mana used) and all of the other specials are relatively meaningless outside of one or two. You and your coward tendencies make me sick. You can take it to the HOT boards where you're cradled by your group of trolls and no attempt to back up any of the **** that spews from your mouth. You're a cave troll that only appears when you have someone to hold your hand. Nothing more.
 

CovenantX

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I am not sure why a suggested solution has not been to lower the parry % as well. 35% at 120 is probably not helping anything. I also would not mind parry lowering damage output (I have parry on all my chars).
I'll quote the master... from the Discussing Balance Thread :D

6) Parry chances reduced for players with Parry + Wrestling or Parry + Anatomy down to 20% from 35%.
 

virem

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Can we please remove parry from the game so focused mages can have 30 SDI like they should?
 

PaithanTheElf

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You're still here? And still lying because I do not have my old PC with screenshots of you. GG lying about a 20 year old wizard game. To add to the point, you've tested nothing. You're a liar and a troll. If you had tested the 0 tactics, you'd have seen 0 tacts AI's do 20hp damage (Not worth the mana used) and all of the other specials are relatively meaningless outside of one or two. You and your coward tendencies make me sick. You can take it to the HOT boards where you're cradled by your group of trolls and no attempt to back up any of the **** that spews from your mouth. You're a cave troll that only appears when you have someone to hold your hand. Nothing more.
Weird how a big talker like you who loves to post on the boards never had one screenshot of me on any boards isn't it? But you had a secret folder of screenshots of me on your old PC? lol. Very believable. And yes it is weird to still catching you in lies about a video game (remember last time you posted a "kill" of me?).

Anywho- I was talking about the new hit spell moves- bone crushing specifically, thanks for checking up on my testing, though.
 

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
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Stratics Legend
I'll quote the master... from the Discussing Balance Thread :D
I'd say knock it down to 20% at gm and 25% at 120. A 10% reduction overall. I am sure people would still complain it is too OP though. Also, I don't remember all the proposed changes from back then. I am going off what people have said since all the testing/changes have been implemented- mainly this month. But... good idea!
 
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