NEWS [UO.Com] Combat Update to Test Center

[virem]

as far as I can tell;

There's one template that can have 30 SDI (not counting scribe bonus in any of these)

A pure mage with no combat and no other school of magic.

There are two templates that can have 25 SDI, parry mage and a combat skill mage.

Everything else would be 20 SDI.

 

[Great DC]

Focus cap is still 30 SDI. IF you play a tank mage without tactics its 25 SDI, pretty simple.

Oops nvm tactics isn't on break list. So technically tank mages with tactics could take advantage of HP increase of the warrior's gift

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Sub-skills are involved in this too if you read the entire post, it includes eval, ss, focus/imbuing. So you get -5 from mystic and -5 from focus therefore making a mystic mage 20 SDI. Its not rocket science here just reading comprehension.

Thanks for pointing that out. Had only glanced over it. See how that works, DC? I admit when I am wrong.

I will now say that I am not ok with the sub groups of eval/focus/ss/imbuing being a reduction.

 

[Cady]

Sub-skills are involved in this too if you read the entire post, it includes eval, ss, focus/imbuing. So you get -5 from mystic and -5 from focus therefore making a mystic mage 20 SDI. Its not rocket science here just reading comprehension.

That part's vague too, cuz if I understand it correctly a spellweaving mage is going to be nonfoucsed and capped at 20% SDI. And weaving has no subskill. But a mage with Spirit Speak, but no necro, might be unfocused too and capped at 20%, I'm not sure where a SS-mage sits, 20 or 25, but no one's used that temp in a decade.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

as far as I can tell;

There's one template that can have 30 SDI (not counting scribe bonus in any of these)

A pure mage with no combat and no other school of magic.

There are two templates that can have 25 SDI, parry mage and a combat skill mage.

Everything else would be 20 SDI.

weren't we trying to nerf parry? reading what you wrote it looks like it only got a 5% sdi reduction...

 

[OREOGL]

Focus cap is still 30 SDI. IF you play a tank mage without tactics its 25 SDI, pretty simple.

I think you're correct but it's this line that was causing the confusion.

• Increased PVP SDI Cap for Non-Focus Spec to 20%

After he said it was the minimum, cap means regardless of skills you can have up to a minimum of 20 sdi.

So it makes sense. A Mage with scribe is 40. You can not drop below 20 sdi regardless of penalty skills.

So yes, a person can be non focused but that doesn't mean the cap starts at 20 for them.

It scaled it from 30 (or 40 with scribe)

 

[cobb]

I don't think 5% SDI reduction for Parry mages is enough. We were trying to address the fact that they are OP. 5% will be barely noticeable

 

[OREOGL]

I don't think 5% SDI reduction for Parry mages is enough. We were trying to address the fact that they are OP. 5% will be barely noticeable

The damage output difference is roughly a max of 8 points in 2.75 seconds. Spell damage variance is around 4 points. So it'd be a 4-8 point difference really.

This does not equate it to being overpowered.

The math rules that out.

 

[Great DC]

REMOVE FOCUS SPEC!!

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Sub-skills are involved in this too if you read the entire post, it includes eval, ss, focus/imbuing. So you get -5 from mystic and -5 from focus therefore making a mystic mage 20 SDI. Its not rocket science here just reading comprehension.

Now that I went and re-read it. Let's talk about reading comprehension!

• Live:
  • Spell Damage Increase cap of 30% for templates that focus in only one spell school. Focused players, having no more than 30.0 modified skill points in another main skill set will be able to benefit from the raised cap. Main skills include: Magery, Necromancy, Mysticism, Ninjitsu, Bushido, Animal Taming, Musicianship, Chivalry, Spellweaving.
  • Focused players, must also not have more than 30.0 modified skill points in another sub skill set will be able to benefit from the raised cap. Sub skills include: Evaluate Intelligence, Focus/Imbuing, Spirit Speak.
• Test Center:
  • Focused players will start out with a Spell Damage Increase cap of 30%, with a 5% reduction for each 30.0 modified skill points in another skill from the penalty skill list.
  • The requirements for Focused Spec will remain as what is currently Live.
  • Penalty skills include: Magery, Necromancy, Mysticism, Ninjitsu, Bushido, Animal Taming, Musicianship, Chivalry, Spellweaving, Parry, Mace Fighting, Swordsmanship, Throwing, and Archery.

It is completely vague because they do not state "sub-groups" for the TC update, but they do state 'Live" but what part of the Live??. So before going further on who is right or wrong maybe we can get some clarification @Bleak

 

[Great DC]

Inscribe still affects mysticism by the way. After testing this if you plague after an explosion and the plague ticks the explosion itll do 46-50 damage just on the tick. That's on a cursed target. I think inscribe should be removed from mysticism spells cause it will be OP.

 

[cazador]

So parry mages will still be the only template lol..this is just silly!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CovenantX]

Add Healing and/or Anatomy to SDI reduction list, and focus spec would be near-perfect.

Scribe SDI bonus should only apply to magery.

 

[cobb]

This update will still encourage players to play parry mages since they still have higher damage than Necro mages and Mystics.

Just get rid of Focus spec and give everyone 20 SDI

 

[OREOGL]

Now that I went and re-read it. Let's talk about reading comprehension!

• Live:
  • Spell Damage Increase cap of 30% for templates that focus in only one spell school. Focused players, having no more than 30.0 modified skill points in another main skill set will be able to benefit from the raised cap. Main skills include: Magery, Necromancy, Mysticism, Ninjitsu, Bushido, Animal Taming, Musicianship, Chivalry, Spellweaving.
  • Focused players, must also not have more than 30.0 modified skill points in another sub skill set will be able to benefit from the raised cap. Sub skills include: Evaluate Intelligence, Focus/Imbuing, Spirit Speak.
• Test Center:
  • Focused players will start out with a Spell Damage Increase cap of 30%, with a 5% reduction for each 30.0 modified skill points in another skill from the penalty skill list.
  • The requirements for Focused Spec will remain as what is currently Live.
  • Penalty skills include: Magery, Necromancy, Mysticism, Ninjitsu, Bushido, Animal Taming, Musicianship, Chivalry, Spellweaving, Parry, Mace Fighting, Swordsmanship, Throwing, and Archery.

It is completely vague because they do not state "sub-groups" for the TC update, but they do state 'Live" but what part of the Live??. So before going further on who is right or wrong maybe we can get some clarification @Bleak

I think it would help for them to state the exempt skill combos that still benefit from being focused (i.e. Magery and eval, focus and mysticism).

I think this meant if you had 120 mysticism and say 31 eval you would be non focused.

But 120 Magery and 31 eval you're still focused.


At least this is how I understand it.

 

[cobb]

Add Healing and/or Anatomy to SDI reduction list, and focus spec would be near-perfect.

Scribe SDI bonus should only apply to magery.

Yes healing needs to be added to that list

 

[virem]

I think when it all comes down to it, it's a small nerf for combat mages, and a small buff for necro mystic bushido mages.

Which I think is sorta stupid, considering combat mages don't really need a nerf to begin with.

 

[OREOGL]

REMOVE FOCUS SPEC!!

Yeah I mean in reality they could just leave the sdi cap a flat 20% across the board and have scribe go up to 30%.

even with scaling most viable templates will hit the minimum of 20% anyways. Especially if they just keep adding to the list.

This eliminates that whole mess and confusion.

 

[Great DC]

I am happy to see that @Bleak and @Kyronix are listening to the players and making adjustments as necessary in order to get pvp back to more fun!!

*CLAPS*

 

[Great DC]

LOLOL just thought about this. You could be a scribe tank mage and be 35 SDI with the HP bonus of warriors gift, That will be the template of choice after this current set of changes. Could even add poisoning to the template. Mage, Eval, Wep skill, resist, scribe, posion/alchemy and still have some room leftover for say tactics or whatever.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

So here are my issues I would like addressed:

1) Give us a detailed focus list with reductions
2) Debuff parry as a -10 sdi break
3) Allow mystic mages or necro mages without a 3rd skill line on the break list be able to hit 25sdi (mage/eval/resist/mystic/focus/scribe) because a mage weapon is more volatile than any other mage template
4) Get rid of the warning on novas (the floating potion)
5) Make corpse work off 120 SS (w/modded skill inc) and remove necro skill from it
6) Make a focus list for chiv that reduces FC (bushido/ninja etc) or slow down the casting speed of Holy Fist

Oh and merge all fel dungeons and VvV towns

 

[PaithanTheElf]

-Remove over capping hit points.
-Leave novas how they were. Scale damage back a little (don't go overboard).

 

[PaithanTheElf]

So here are my issues I would like addressed:

1) Give us a detailed focus list with reductions
2) Debuff parry as a -10 sdi break
3) Allow mystic mages or necro mages without a 3rd skill line on the break list be able to hit 25sdi (mage/eval/resist/mystic/focus/scribe) because a mage weapon is more volatile than any other mage template
4) Get rid of the warning on novas (the floating potion)
5) Make corpse work off 120 SS (w/modded skill inc) and remove necro skill from it
6) Make a focus list for chiv that reduces FC (bushido/ninja etc) or slow down the casting speed of Holy Fist

Oh and merge all fel dungeons and VvV towns

I think there is going to be a lot more people fitting ninja onto their temps now.

But 25% seems excessive. 30% on mages seems pretty easy with adding scribe to those temps. Now they will be able to more than compete.

I like that idea for #5- sounds logical.

 

[DJ Diddles]

I think we're a little to close to where we started with most parry mages being able to continue business as usual with only a -5% SDI decrease, in addition to being able to keep alchemy. Moving shot has been severely nerfed, mortal was gutted earlier in the year, lower defense is now somewhat less effective, and the exchange for parry mages is a -5% spell damage decrease? Doesn't seem all that fair to me.

I think one of the following needs to happen:

• Parry gets a greater focus penalty (i.e. -10%) than other focus spec skills
• Alchemy needs added back to the focus list
• Remove focus spec entirely and give every kind of mage a 20% SDI cap, with Inscription adding 10% and only applying to Magery spells

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

I think there is going to be a lot more people fitting ninja onto their temps now.

But 25% seems excessive. 30% on mages seems pretty easy with adding scribe to those temps. Now they will be able to more than compete.

I like that idea for #5- sounds logical.

Yea, that's why I say make a middle ground. You're losing the defense of animal form for a slight boost in offense. But that is just my opinion...

 

[virem]

We are so far off the deep end with these changes at this point. It's completely changing the game, instead of small incremental changes we have this mismosh of nonsense that's going to be a balancing nightmare.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Oh yeah, being able to remove lower defense with remove curse/apples makes zero sense.

 

[drcossack]

We are so far off the deep end with these changes at this point. It's completely changing the game, instead of small incremental changes we have this mismosh of nonsense that's going to be a balancing nightmare.

And your suggestions are what, exactly? It's quite evident that the devs are listening, so come up with something that's a logical change and they might implement it, or at the very least, take a look at it as a possible change.

 

[virem]

There should only be two options for SDI, based on the schools of magic only. If you have more than one school of magic it should be 20 SDI, if it's just Margery it should be 30 SDI. Scribe should add 10% to both.

Combat mages aren't overpowered it doesn't make any sense that they are being nerfed at all. If the community thinks parry mages with 30 SDI are too strong than parry should nerfed some other way. I personally don't think they are, and buffs to other schools of magic will inheritenly take some people off parry mages.

 

[virem]

There was ONE problem with the game that moving shot does too much damage which forced everyone who doesn't play an archer onto a parry mage. We have now gone crazy with changes when the only ones that really need to be made are nerfing running shot and letting everything else balance out. If people beleive the game needs a small buff to other classes or a small nerf to parry mages to help balance that's fine. But the changes we have on test is just way too much.

 

[OREOGL]

I think we're a little to close to where we started with most parry mages being able to continue business as usual with only a -5% SDI decrease, in addition to being able to keep alchemy. Moving shot has been severely nerfed, mortal was gutted earlier in the year, lower defense is now somewhat less effective, and the exchange for parry mages is a -5% spell damage decrease? Doesn't seem all that fair to me.

I think one of the following needs to happen:

• Parry gets a greater focus penalty (i.e. -10%) than other focus spec skills
• Alchemy needs added back to the focus list
• Remove focus spec entirely and give every kind of mage a 20% SDI cap, with Inscription adding 10% and only applying to Magery spells

Eh, if the minimum SDI is 20% you're really just treading water with parry since most templates will hit that anyways.

So yeah! 10% ! or whatever.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Combat mages aren't overpowered it doesn't make any sense that they are being nerfed at all. If the community thinks parry mages with 30 SDI are too strong than parry should nerfed some other way. I personally don't think they are, and buffs to other schools of magic will inheritenly take some people off parry mages.

In this update if you run an scribe alchy swords mage you will be at 25sdi. So you are getting a slight SDI reduction, but if the mastery stays in you are getting 5hci/dci and 5hpi over cap. On paper that seems like a pretty good trade off.

I am also trying to just work with what they are giving us. Seems like the only way to make it work with the devs because in the past it was their way or nothing. So if they are entertaining concepts to changing their current implementations that's what I will try to do...

Penalty skills include: Magery, Necromancy, Mysticism, Ninjitsu, Bushido, Animal Taming, Musicianship, Chivalry, Spellweaving, Parry, Mace Fighting, Swordsmanship, Throwing, Fencing and Archery.
Focused players, must also not have more than 30.0 modified skill points in another sub skill set will be able to benefit from the raised cap. Sub skills include: Evaluate Intelligence, Focus/Imbuing, Spirit Speak.

So we know that you lose 5sdi for having Swords and as long as you don't have more than 30skill inc on your template in ANY of those listed skills you would hit 25sdi.

That's how I understand it. Someone can correct me if I am wrong because it's obviously new to all of us

 

[virem]

I'm not saying the character would be unplayable. I'm saying it wasn't overpowered before, why is it getting a nerf?

Warriors gifts shouldn't be added at all, and it's only a suit buff, not a template buff. I could get everything I needed on my suits without Warriors gifts.

 

[virem]

Oh and, not to mention the fact that if the supernova changes go in, there's really no reason to ever play any sort of Magery only school characters.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

I'm not saying the character would
be unplayable. I'm saying it wasn't overpowered before, why is it getting a nerf?

Warriors gifts shouldn't be added at all, and it's only a suit buff, not a template buff. I could get everything I needed on my suits without Warriors gifts.

No disagreement with you there. Just trying to help steer this ship in the right direction. I mean all it took was one random person talking about a new SDI reduction list and BAM it got implemented...

 

[virem]

I think that the way these changes are going down are absolutely ridiculous. No way to vet if the people who post or vote actually pvp, understand the game, are good at the game, etc.

And the worst thing about it is, the development team have no idea what's good, why it's good, or why it needs to be changed or not changed. @Bleak @Mesanna @Kyronix

 

[CovenantX]

Warriors gifts shouldn't be added at all, and it's only a suit buff, not a template buff. I could get everything I needed on my suits without Warriors gifts.

For sure, even though +5 HPI over-cap is "less OP" than +15 over-cap, that still makes this buff better than most/all other masteries.
the HCI/DCI portions only benefit those that don't farm or buy the higher-end items (there has to be a reason to use the higher-end loot- even if it's just for these particular properties).

But the changes we have on test is just way too much.

In case you haven't tested anything... most of these changes ARE small buffs/nerfs... what exactly is not to like so far?

with non-focus mages getting 5% more sdi, they become more viable, with parry-mages losing 5% SDI (should be -10%) but -5 is better than none considering they have the BEST defense you can get while remaining with one-hand free to chug, they become toned down enough to where non-focus specs can compete a little better.

Supernovas 1 second delay doesn't change much, but now Scribe can replace Alchemy a little easier, poisoning as well (this is much better balanced than it was, though alchemy is still a little better than scribe or poisoning (if you could only pick one)).

Archery/Throwing is still going to be a little too strong, I'm thinking the devs might be better off applying a -5% to -10% (Pvp-only) damage penalty to all ranged (weapon-based) attacks.
just so melee isn't exactly the same damage as ranged, except the added difficulty of getting close. Besides, being able to have 2 hit-spells (velocity + lightening/Fireball) partially counter the damage modifier anyway, so there's not much a reason to keep their attacks damage at the same level...

This publish.. (so far) balances a hell of a lot more than any other publish that has ever affected pvp in UO.
(It's getting better and better with each update now...) with the small exception of "Warriors Gifts". (+5 HP over-cap) I feel the +5 HP could be changed to just about anything else, and it would be "Viable" instead of the "most useful".

The whole point to get things balanced is to make a lot of the templates that are not being played worth playing. It's looking like this publish will accomplish that.

 

[Merus]

At least @virem and I agree on at least one thing... we should be making small incremental changes and seeing how things balance before adding more.

Changing two sides of an unbalanced equation equally doesn't solve the unbalance. Are there several changes that could be made to improve diversity in pvp? Sure. But trying to mash them all up and do them at once is a bad idea (even for the changes I agree with).

 

[CovenantX]

They could just as easily remove "Focus Spec" and cap everyone at 20% SDI (the way they're changing focus spec is basically doing that, with some, though very few exceptions).

 

[virem]

In case you haven't tested anything... most of these changes ARE small buffs/nerfs... what exactly is not to like so far?

Small? Removing tactics from requirement on combat moves is small?
completely changing the SDI cap on EVERY current mage character in the game is small? changing every suit in the game.
entirely removing one mastery and replacing it with something completely different including adding an ability to overcap hit points?
changing the mechanics of supernova rendering it completely worthless, and thus making the skill alchemy completely worthless in pvp is small?

Got it.

 

[virem]

They could just as easily remove "Focus Spec" and cap everyone at 20% SDI (the way they're changing focus spec is basically doing that, with some, though very few exceptions).

The reason that focus mages got an SDI buff in the first place was because they were worthless, if they all have the same SDI no one will play a mage with only one school of magic.

 

[Lythos-]

Small? Removing tactics from requirement on combat moves is small?
completely changing the SDI cap on EVERY current mage character in the game is small? changing every suit in the game.
entirely removing one mastery and replacing it with something completely different including adding an ability to overcap hit points?
changing the mechanics of supernova rendering it completely worthless, and thus making the skill alchemy completely worthless is small?

Got it.

The tactics change won't be that big of a deal. Hybrids got an upgrade. That's a great thing.

You were all for the removal of that mastery on test last week when you (we, all of us there) THOUGHT it would be aimed more at the PVM community. BTW the new mastery SHOULD be Increased Slayer damage 15-20% and nothing related to PvP.

I'll give you the nova change. A timer isn't good at all.

A 5 SDI deduction for parry still doesn't resolve the issue they can't be hit and still doesn't resolve the issue that an archer can sit comfortably 10 tiles away with 2 hit spells.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

A 5 SDI deduction for parry still doesn't resolve the issue they can't be hit and still doesn't resolve the issue that an archer can sit comfortably 10 tiles away with 2 hit spells.

It should be a -10sdi and it should also decrease Holy Fist dmg by -10%

 

[Lythos-]

Now that I went and re-read it. Let's talk about reading comprehension!

• 
  Penalty skills include: Magery, Necromancy, Mysticism, Ninjitsu, Bushido, Animal Taming, Musicianship, Chivalry, Spellweaving, Parry, Mace Fighting, Swordsmanship, Throwing, and Archery

• 
  So, I can have a focused fencing mage since it's not on the list?!

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

• 
  So, I can have a focused fencing mage since it's not on the list?!

There should be a post somewhere in this thread stating that it was a mistake and was corrected...

 

[Lythos-]

It should be a -10sdi and it should also decrease Holy Fist dmg by -10%

I could 100% live with this.

 

[cholupa]

I agree that 5% SDI penalty for parry mages is not enough. Needs to drop by 10%

 

[Lythos-]

There should be a post somewhere in this thread stating that it was a mistake and was corrected...

No sir, no backsies. Focused fencing mages for all.

 

[CovenantX]

The reason that focus mages got an SDI buff in the first place was because they were worthless, if they all have the same SDI no one will play a mage with only one school of magic.

I understand that, the problem with it though, is because of how much a difference there is between 15% & 30% SDI it's causing all (most) mages to stick with everything that doesn't drop you to 15%.

Technically with the new changes to focus spec, the only "Focus Mage" template that will remain unchanged, would be Scribe, Nox, mage, Eval, Resist & Med maybe swap med for alchemy. pretty much any other skill added to that would take at least a -5% SDI hit. Those templates aren't really being played now, so I really don't see a problem with it.

I do think archery is still going to need a slight nerf (most definitely nothing major) to non-moving shot attacks. but aside from the overcapping of HP with this warriors gift there's really nothing bad about this publish (IMO)

There should be a post somewhere in this thread stating that it was a mistake and was corrected...

No sir, no backsies. Focused fencing mages for all.

@Bleak

Surely fencing was just accidentally omitted from the focus spec list, right..? I cannot imagine why it wouldn't be there with every other weapon skill.

You are correct.

Hopefully that gets fixed before it's forgotten. it is a "known issue" as per the last two quotes above.

 

[CovenantX]

Also Yew now has +FC1 on Test Center.

In addition to this, the devs also placed a "gate" near the Governor stone in Yew that changes your citizenship to Yew (you still need to donate ingots etc to get loyalty up), so those of you that are citizens of a different town can now switch immediately without waiting the 7-day timer!