Why people stop going to events(rant)

[Tamais]

I don't often complain but I was just working on my next report for Lake Austin. This is a small sample of what happened during the boss fight. Afterwards several shard people said they might quit going because of this. These are the people who have been going to events even when there isn't a drop. At least two have been on the shard since it opened. Wish it could be stopped. I've removed players names. Lucius was a poor ncp healer.

Lucius: They're killing people here!
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E: In Vas Mani Hur
S: Vas An Nox
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S: In Vas Mani
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the spamming caused people to be kicked of the shard and major lag.

R: Selling Tonights Event Drop got 3 of the 10 400m Each ATL GOLD

 

[Lord Arm]

this is not the first time, wont be the last. I feel sorry for ems, some of the crap talking they get from people. the ems seemed to get blame for the cheating and unfair practices that go on. wonder if devs go and watch at events, guess not. at times, I feel the ems really needed some back up. some people would not like me if I was an em lol. I wish was one char per person. its kind of funny when u see way more chars waiting outside meeting area than inside lol. would solve a lot. just my opinions.

 

[Merlin]

I couldn't agree more. The same people who do this on Lake Austin are the same group of creeps who do it on Atlantic. They spam spells non-stop the entire time so that your log is completely uncomprehendable unless you block them all. They interrupt the event with constant calls of "let's just get to the fighting", "I want a drop", they sit on their gargs and purposefully fly on top of whatever item subject matter is being focused on during the event.

I will be the first to admit there are events that are boring and drawn out, but spamming obnoxiously is just disrespectful to everyone else there.

I also understand this is the unfortunate nature of gaming today in general: the trolls and griefers find whatever way they can to ruin the fun for everyone else. I'm afraid i dont have an answer for it, but the one particular guild which has done this at several events now has not gone unnoticed. EMs should have the power to put people in temporary time outs (60 minutes would be suffice, as most events don't last much longer than that).

 

[petemage]

Well, I always think of the real dollar value those lets say 3x 400m rares have. After that I usually stop wondering why those shady people are attracted to those events. I mean just with that one event he can cover 12 months of gametime. Not suprised at all!

 

[Spartan]

Okay ... why can't the EM start either squelching or booting? Do they have that ability - after all it is THEIR event, isn't it? If a few of these blokes got frozen in place for an hour or so maybe they would get the message.

 

[MalagAste]

Okay ... why can't the EM start either squelching or booting? Do they have that ability - after all it is THEIR event, isn't it? If a few of these blokes got frozen in place for an hour or so maybe they would get the message.

IMO a GM ought to be present and should MOVE people out of the way when they don't comply with commands... if they continue to disobey they should find themselves in the Jails for the duration of the Event... PERIOD.

Those that spam stuff ought to be squelched for 5 min.... second offense squelched for 15 min.... third offense jailed for the duration of the Event.

If they put this policy into effect then the events would become MUCH more pleasant for everyone. You wouldn't have to wait long for the talky parts to get over as the EM's wouldn't have to constantly stop and repeat or stop and ask people to move or stop spamming etc...

Also those offenders who continuously throw conflags and cast fields etc on the EMs are also extremely annoying. I personally could NEVER understand why that kind of thing is allowed.

 

[Lord Frodo]

IMO a GM ought to be present and should MOVE people out of the way when they don't comply with commands... if they continue to disobey they should find themselves in the Jails for the duration of the Event... PERIOD.

Those that spam stuff ought to be squelched for 5 min.... second offense squelched for 15 min.... third offense jailed for the duration of the Event.

If they put this policy into effect then the events would become MUCH more pleasant for everyone. You wouldn't have to wait long for the talky parts to get over as the EM's wouldn't have to constantly stop and repeat or stop and ask people to move or stop spamming etc...

Also those offenders who continuously throw conflags and cast fields etc on the EMs are also extremely annoying. I personally could NEVER understand why that kind of thing is allowed.

If the GMs did that then people would accuse them of favoritism, oh wait they already do that.

 

[J. E. Tamer]

OOC: Too much lag. Classic client. Does EC handle this better?

 

[MalagAste]

If the GMs did that then people would accuse them of favoritism, oh wait they already do that.

There can't be any false accusations because a GMs ruling is ALWAYS been absolute. What they "see" is logged and detailed... supposedly. And anyone who feels they were Falsely imprisoned or jailed has the right to have their case reviewed. Therefore the superiors (Mesanna) can review what happened and decide if it was "right"....

I was just at yet another EM event tonight where there were at least 5 people casting fields and everything else on the EMs while folk were attempting to RP with the EM's and it was nearly impossible to see what was going on... by the time something did go on..... (They led us away from that area)... it was totally chaotic because most folk didn't know what was going on or that the EM had even wandered off for awhile... I think a bunch of folk missed that and missed out on the opportunity to get a drop because of it.

 

[Scribbles]

You can get rid of over head text here. (EC)




However as far as the chat log goes.... why the EMs havent been given their own chat that others can join but cant speak is beyond me. It would be that simple... I have never ever been able to follow a story line because i cant keep up with everything going on. in CC i barely have enough time to read journal.... in EC there is no chance lol.


So simple answers:
1. disable as many text "features" as possible (except EM's chatter)
2. Plead with the devs to create a channel on each shard dedicated to GM, EMs, advisors. SO they can talk with out trolls blabbering over them.

 

[DJ Diddles]

I couldn't agree more. The same people who do this on Lake Austin are the same group of creeps who do it on Atlantic. They spam spells non-stop the entire time so that your log is completely uncomprehendable unless you block them all.

I understand your logic, but it's just incorrect. People don't spam enemy of one, divine fury, consecrate, etc. to clog the chat log. It's just a product of poorly designed scripts and players who are too incompetent or unwilling to change.

For example:

• One player spams enemy of one because he is too lazy to train his chivalry outside of when he is attending events (not a joke).
• That player and others who use a similar method spam enemy of one, divine fury, and consecrate when their character does not currently have those buffs on their buff bar.
• The spam of those spells (far more quick than you can actually cast them) comes when they are either dead, paralyzed, or stunned by something like a slasher stun.

I'd refer you to Hanlon's Razor:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

They don't stand on top of things to block the event (one person every once in a while might, but this is an extreme minority), they stand on top because they moved there and have alt-tabbed and are looking elsewhere. They don't spam the log to block what is almost certainly "worthless" dialogue to them.

 

[MalagAste]

You can get rid of over head text here. (EC)
View attachment 57336



However as far as the chat log goes.... why the EMs havent been given their own chat that others can join but cant speak is beyond me. It would be that simple... I have never ever been able to follow a story line because i cant keep up with everything going on. in CC i barely have enough time to read journal.... in EC there is no chance lol.


So simple answers:
1. disable as many text "features" as possible (except EM's chatter)
2. Plead with the devs to create a channel on each shard dedicated to GM, EMs, advisors. SO they can talk with out trolls blabbering over them.

While I use this regularly I mostly read everything going on from my journal because if you set the time the text is on-screen to 5 seconds it seriously cuts down lag... I have spells and all that turned off because at events I don't care what anyone is casting... the problem comes that even if I don't see it over their heads it's still logged into the journal... and I for one REFUSE to have a different tab for everything... I'd prefer to just not see any of that in my journal at all... unless I'm in Fel trying to PvP what anyone else is casting isn't any of my concern... and quite frankly I'm fine just seeing the spell effects of my own character and the "enemies" rather than every tom, **** and harry's casting animations...

But more than anything I'd like something that would allow ME to see Dragons as chickens or kittens for all I care..... anything but gigantic red flappy beasts that hog up most the space.... and I'd even like to see gargoyles as wingless ones flying or not. If I could toggle those at will I'd be happy as can be.

 

[OREOGL]

I don't understand, you mean this isn't fun?:









Who would have thought?

 

[Dot_Warner]

I don't understand, you mean this isn't fun?:

View attachment 57337

Who would have thought?

I felt sorry for the EMs trying to get story across amidst all the pointless chaos. I think most people missed out on why the Sultana was against the treaty. At least the stage was blocked off this time, not that it completely stopped the asshats from griefing.

I also disagree that the root cause of the issues during events is just player stupidity, behaviors are definitely slanted towards malice.

 

[sirion]

Definitely intentional spamming and happening on every shard (saying otherwise suggests either you dont play the game or you intentionally trying to mislead / de-escalate this discussion)

 

[OREOGL]

I felt sorry for the EMs trying to get story across amidst all the pointless chaos. I think most people missed out on why the Sultana was against the treaty. At least the stage was blocked off this time, not that it completely stopped the asshats from griefing.

I also disagree that the root cause of the issues during events is just player stupidity, behaviors are definitely slanted towards malice.

I didn't catch anything on the stage. I was buried in dragons and spam.

Then after a bit the crowd moved.

The thing that I appreciated the most, was them allowing enough time to grab the boss bar before it turned.

After that I really don't know what I was doing. Just watching my health bar and aimlessly mashing the armor ignore key.

The dove was neat, just wasn't my thing.

 

[kelmo]

Make all EM items (false rares) shard bound. Start there.

 

[GarthGrey]

Make all EM items (false rares) shard bound. Start there.

Mesanna has too many personal friends to do that, silly.

 

[Cailleach]

I stopped going when, two minutes to an event, the entire shard crashed. When we all arrived two minutes late, the doors had been locked, on the advice of cross shard traders who were happily sitting in the hall, anticipating rares.

The horrendous behaviour of some was a major contributing factor, but the incident above was what finished it off for me.

And, what Kelmo says about shard bound. It'd be a damn good start.

 

[The Slug]

Make all EM items (false rares) shard bound. Start there.

Blasphemy! You might get banned for just saying that!

In all honesty, you have to figure the people running 8+ accounts (scripted of course) at all events on every shard probably make up 50% of more of all total subs.

About 4 years ago I got paged on by a well known "eventer" for not rezzing him. And yes a a GM did show and ask me to play nice. (I never said a single thing to this person and the char I was using couldn't rez if I wanted to, which of course I didn't)

 

[kelmo]

The "eventers" can still certainly attend. They can sell the items on that shard and take the gold home if they wish.

 

[Scribbles]

While I use this regularly I mostly read everything going on from my journal because if you set the time the text is on-screen to 5 seconds it seriously cuts down lag... I have spells and all that turned off because at events I don't care what anyone is casting... the problem comes that even if I don't see it over their heads it's still logged into the journal... and I for one REFUSE to have a different tab for everything... I'd prefer to just not see any of that in my journal at all... unless I'm in Fel trying to PvP what anyone else is casting isn't any of my concern... and quite frankly I'm fine just seeing the spell effects of my own character and the "enemies" rather than every tom, **** and harry's casting animations...

But more than anything I'd like something that would allow ME to see Dragons as chickens or kittens for all I care..... anything but gigantic red flappy beasts that hog up most the space.... and I'd even like to see gargoyles as wingless ones flying or not. If I could toggle those at will I'd be happy as can be.

Id also like the EMs to publish the story script in advance or at the very least after the event so no matter what i could actually follow the story line. A lot of EMs have great story lines, but unfortunately i rarely get to read them.

nonetheless there are a lot of options for the the dev team to make things better. Its quite obvious events are popular, devs and ems need to get with the times and learn how to manage them. Im personally running 16gig ram, 8 core processor, and 2gig vid card and i still lag out at events.... Funny i can play CoD, Dota2, HoN, League, battlefield, WoW and never lag, but a 19 year old game with a bunch of flapping dragons and gargs set my computer off lol.

 

[Ellie]

Have an event where there isnt so much smash and bashum. Have things for crafters or thieves running all over the globe looking for hidden things.

 

[Nexus]

Have an event where there isnt so much smash and bashum. Have things for crafters or thieves running all over the globe looking for hidden things.

They used to do that more often, but a certain subset of the player base continually complained about the lack of "Drops".

From observation the EM program has largely degraded unintentionally into a vending machine for the RMT community. At this point I'd have to question why even continue with the EM Program if there aren't going to be major changes which circumvent the ability of people to exploit it for personal profit.

I rarely hear anything Good about the EM program anymore, it's all about how horrible trying to actually participate in events for no other reason than fun is.

 

[Merus]

In all honesty, the only thing that needs to happen is a little enforcement of the TOS from our producer.

Multiboxers and griefers are not hard to spot. If Mesanna came to the events and watched from behind the scenes until just before the event boss spawned, then pulled all the multiboxers toons to jail for 5 minutes, it wouldn't take too many events before they would get the message and quit doing it. It is completely within the TOS for her to do that... so the issue is completely within her power to resolve.

 

[Cailleach]

In all honesty, the only thing that needs to happen is a little enforcement of the TOS from our producer.

Multiboxers and griefers are not hard to spot. If Mesanna came to the events and watched from behind the scenes until just before the event boss spawned, then pulled all the multiboxers toons to jail for 5 minutes, it wouldn't take too many events before they would get the message and quit doing it. It is completely within the TOS for her to do that... so the issue is completely within her power to resolve.

I hate to say it, but that's the Dev who locked the hall doors, leaving the community outside and the cross shard traders inside ...

 

[kelmo]

Shard bound would be easier to implement.

 

[Merus]

Shard bound would be easier to implement.

My issue with the idea of shard bound drops is that it equates rares collectors with those who cheat to profit off saling rares to collectors.

I have no problem with xshard event participates as long as they are respectful players and aren't cheating for an advantage.

I say punish the cheaters and leave the rest of us alone.

 

[Merus]

I hate to say it, but that's the Dev who locked the hall doors, leaving the community outside and the cross shard traders inside ...

I think there are times when locking the doors is appropriate. Sorry if sometimes that leaves some folks who weren't able to show up on time on the outside, but it limits participation to 1 character per account for those who show up on time.

 

[Cailleach]

If the event is part of the timeline of shard history, then it would make a great deal of sense to have any drops made shard bound.

Happens in RL all the time ...

 

[Cailleach]

I think there are times when locking the doors is appropriate. Sorry if sometimes that leaves some folks who weren't able to show up on time on the outside, but it limits participation to 1 character per account for those who show up on time.

I think you've missed the point; the door was locked at the request of cross shard traders - this was confirmed by the few members of the community who'd actually managed to get in - and it left the rest of the community unable to attend the event.

The shard went down at about two minutes to event time, and didn't come up until a minute or two after it was supposed to start. We were no more than two minutes late - it took some folk longer to log back in than others - yet by the time we got there, the doors were locked and were not unlocked until the event was over.

Quite apart from the fact that the doors shouldn't have been locked, since we're not a huge population and never have been, if you don't leave events open for all, it's hardly bloody surprising folks start muttering about favourites and unfair etc etc.

Me, I don't mutter. I just walk away, and I'm not the only one.

 

[Merus]

I think you've missed the point; the door was locked at the request of cross shard traders - this was confirmed by the few members of the community who'd actually managed to get in - and it left the rest of the community unable to attend the event.

The shard went down at about two minutes to event time, and didn't come up until a minute or two after it was supposed to start. We were no more than two minutes late - it took some folk longer to log back in than others - yet by the time we got there, the doors were locked and were not unlocked until the event was over.

Quite apart from the fact that the doors shouldn't have been locked, since we're not a huge population and never have been, if you don't leave events open for all, it's hardly bloody surprising folks start muttering about favourites and unfair etc etc.

Me, I don't mutter. I just walk away, and I'm not the only one.

I can't comment on your specific experience because I wasn't there, only on the general principle that there are times when I think locking the doors is appropriate. The Mesanna lantern events would be an example. If she didn't lock the door, the line would go on forever as every person cycled through 7 characters on every one of their accounts.

 

[Nexus]

I think you've missed the point; the door was locked at the request of cross shard traders - this was confirmed by the few members of the community who'd actually managed to get in - and it left the rest of the community unable to attend the event.

The shard went down at about two minutes to event time, and didn't come up until a minute or two after it was supposed to start. We were no more than two minutes late - it took some folk longer to log back in than others - yet by the time we got there, the doors were locked and were not unlocked until the event was over.

Quite apart from the fact that the doors shouldn't have been locked, since we're not a huge population and never have been, if you don't leave events open for all, it's hardly bloody surprising folks start muttering about favourites and unfair etc etc.

Me, I don't mutter. I just walk away, and I'm not the only one.

*** Waiting for you to lose it and start ranting in Gàidhlig *

I agree though, Events need to be for everyone or not at all.

 

[Eärendil]

Delete the EM-program. It´s rigged.

 

[petemage]

the general principle that there are times when I think locking the doors is appropriate.

I wonder how long you would think it's a good idea when you were left out of activities you were maybe looking forward to the whole day. UO is still a game and we all pay the same price for it. So there is no reason anyone should be excluded on purpose. Even if it's about a silly lantern or some halloween pumpkin.

 

[Merlin]

Is the EM program perfect? No. However, I do not believe the EM's are acting in bad faith. I've never heard a good argument for how they somehow "help their friends get all the drops". I also note that it's far easier to identify a problem than to propose a well-working solution. EM events and the way they work will always be one of those "you can't make everyone happy" topics.

I also disagree with any notion of changing the way event drops work. EM event drops drive a major part of the UO economy. They should not be shard bound and they should not be changed so every precious little flower gets an EM event drop. While it would be nice if the EMs had some powers to squelch/remove bad-acting participants, the monster fighting and the event progression themselves should not made easier. There is already enough content in this game that is a cake walk and can be done in a soloable fashion.

I understand your logic, but it's just incorrect. People don't spam enemy of one, divine fury, consecrate, etc. to clog the chat log. It's just a product of poorly designed scripts and players who are too incompetent or unwilling to change.

For example:

• One player spams enemy of one because he is too lazy to train his chivalry outside of when he is attending events (not a joke).
• That player and others who use a similar method spam enemy of one, divine fury, and consecrate when their character does not currently have those buffs on their buff bar.
• The spam of those spells (far more quick than you can actually cast them) comes when they are either dead, paralyzed, or stunned by something like a slasher stun.

I'd refer you to Hanlon's Razor:


They don't stand on top of things to block the event (one person every once in a while might, but this is an extreme minority), they stand on top because they moved there and have alt-tabbed and are looking elsewhere. They don't spam the log to block what is almost certainly "worthless" dialogue to them.

I do not doubt the stupidity of some of these bad actors, but I also do not believe it serves as whole-sale cover to avoid the implication of malice. There are many who do this on purpose just to grief the event.

 

[Merus]

I wonder how long you would think it's a good idea when you were left out of activities you were maybe looking forward to the whole day. UO is still a game and we all pay the same price for it. So there is no reason anyone should be excluded on purpose. Even if it's about a silly lantern or some halloween pumpkin.

You think I've never missed an event because I wasn't able to show up on time? Hate to burst your bubble, but I have. It didn't change my opinion.

We all (at least most) have lives outside UO, and sometime that means we miss events because we weren't in the right place at the right time. Just how it goes sometimes.

 

[The Slug]

The "eventers" can still certainly attend. They can sell the items on that shard and take the gold home if they wish.

For the record I agree with you 100%, and so do many others. But ....
Just try mentioning that at a meet and greet, I dare you! I did once several years ago and I'm still not sure which replies I got were more vitriolic, those of the crowd or good ole Messana herself. I've not attended a single meet & greet since and have no intentions of doing so again. I'm ok being a nobody because it's just a game and I'm not going to open 18 more accounts and begin trying to cheat other players for my own profit just to be "somebody"

 

[petemage]

We all (at least most) have lives outside UO, and sometime that means we miss events because we weren't in the right place at the right time. Just how it goes sometimes.

And then there are those occasions where you are in the right place at the right time, but it still isn't enough. I mean are you really telling me being 2 minutes late while you can still see people in there attending should deny you access to the event? 2 minutes?? That's so black and white.

 

[CovenantX]

Definitely intentional spamming and happening on every shard (saying otherwise suggests either you dont play the game or you intentionally trying to mislead / de-escalate this discussion)


View attachment 57339

When things spam up the side of your screen like that, its one of two things

1) the player spamming enemy of one is dead (cannot be seen) -This is what happened in your screenshot
2) a de-sync where you need to rubber-band or "re-sync"

 

[Smoot]

While it would be nice if the EMs had some powers to squelch/remove bad-acting participants, .

they do. most GMs / EMs are just too lazy or inexperienced to do it.

here is a recent pic of my character being put in a wall (stuck couldnt move) and killed by spawn because i sat in the glacial throne the EM made (imo chairs are meant to sit in)

This was on an asian shard



Mesanna has specifically said the way to deal with problems / cheating at events is to page a GM.

So GMs / EMs could easily solve many of the problems at events, many of the abuses and blatant cheating. they simply choose not to.

 

[Cailleach]

I can't comment on your specific experience because I wasn't there, only on the general principle that there are times when I think locking the doors is appropriate. The Mesanna lantern events would be an example. If she didn't lock the door, the line would go on forever as every person cycled through 7 characters on every one of their accounts.

Nope, that's not going to work either. When you advertise a shard wide event and tell all the people to turn up, you don't get to lock a goodly chunk of folks out just because the cross sharders say so.

If it's going to be limited to first however many in or so many 'randomly' chosen, say so. It's not difficult to figure this stuff out, and it's the wee things like this that keep folks a bit happier. Social niceties. They're important.

 

[Cailleach]

*** Waiting for you to lose it and start ranting in Gàidhlig *

I agree though, Events need to be for everyone or not at all.

Lol, nooo, I'd get into trouble if I did that! Plus, there aren't the profanities available that I have in English, and I'm not competant enough at the art of Gaelic Insult to put anything coherent together!

 

[kelmo]

Then why have Shard EMs at all?

 

[Merus]

Nope, that's not going to work either. When you advertise a shard wide event and tell all the people to turn up, you don't get to lock a goodly chunk of folks out just because the cross sharders say so.

If it's going to be limited to first however many in or so many 'randomly' chosen, say so. It's not difficult to figure this stuff out, and it's the wee things like this that keep folks a bit happier. Social niceties. They're important.

Everyone has the option to show up on time.

 

[The Slug]

Then why have Shard EMs at all?

Are you trying to get me banned? Again?

(just kidding) I made my views (apparently too well) known awhile back. Does the term drop factory ring a bell?

 

[Cailleach]

Everyone has the option to show up on time.

Apart from when the whole shard goes down ...

 

[kelmo]

I am just saying if the reason for event drops is to drive some sort of "major part of the UO economy", why bother with Shard specific EMs at all? Just do the events in convenient locations. That way the speculating carpet baggers can easily maintain the "economy".

 

[Merus]

Apart from when the whole shard goes down ...

You're right, not every event should have the doors locked, and those that do should make allowances for things like an entire shard going down.

That aside, there are still events where I think it is appropriate to announce a start time and lock the doors. That will mean that some people who show up late because of other issues (real life events or technical issues) will get excluded. That's just the way it goes sometimes.

 

[kelmo]

In all honesty, the only thing that needs to happen is a little enforcement of the TOS from our producer.

Multiboxers and griefers are not hard to spot. If Mesanna came to the events and watched from behind the scenes until just before the event boss spawned, then pulled all the multiboxers toons to jail for 5 minutes, it wouldn't take too many events before they would get the message and quit doing it. It is completely within the TOS for her to do that... so the issue is completely within her power to resolve.

Does this regularly happen? Enforcement of the TOS?