Reaction speed is definitely one I get accused of all the time. When everything can be mapped to a single keystroke, and with the existence of things like gaming mice... it's kind of hard to use your judgement alone on this and always be right about it. Usually, though, I get accused of things that aren't even possible via cheats. (accused of my apple timer being less due to cheats, etc). Usually the people all upset about cheating have no idea what these cheats actually give players. Speed is something that EC provides you. The UI things (health percentage over heads) I've implemented myself in the EC with LEGAL mods. I'm still having trouble seeing how these things make someone an elite PVPer who otherwise wouldn't be.
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No this doesn't even include programs to mod the art muls for
Fields etc.
No one here is arguing that ending cheats would fix all of pvp, but rather refuting Banes ridiculous post that everyone should just use them and those who don't are just lazy.
It also refutes some of Elestors prior posts.
To address the new players or returning, do you really think people want to pvp against others who have not only been pvping regularly but also use all the third party programs?
No, its not just the devs.
You're trying to apply your situation and make it true as a whole.
Again, watch the videos and explain those mechanics to me. (Let alone with a straight face.)
Yes I've been accused of a lot too, you'd be surprised at the things I got accused of.
One instance I'd invis a deamon in a spot when fighting a small group alone, and then I'd prep a mana dump and just say all kill to finish them quickly.
They'd accuse me of casting it on te run along with other spells.
So, yeah man, I get your point. But it's just not the case every time.
You Know EC has a legal mod for statics fields right...not mention it does not have tomb stones so when your chasing some one who is running ec and there running through tomb stones and you are playing on cc you run right into it and they get away. EC CHEATERS!!!!!!!!!
Yeah you can dodge it.
Though, if these are so easily dodged then no point keeping double conflags active right?
Or is it that because people are running through them because they can be timed and used in choke holds.
Which is the real question?
I was thinking about 30-35 for novas
But still, 27 for a potion when stacking with exp Fs is a considerable amount of damage in a combo.
Any Idea what the damage is when corpsed and cursed?
You took about half of that response.
I gave you the examples that were evident in game.
Yeah that's cool, except the videos are in CC...
So... people scripting spawns, scripting powerscrolls, resources and legendary items, people making billions and billions of gold, duping and inflating the economy, giving themselves an unfair economic advantage- that's not a big deal?
But god-forbid someone see's static fields on their screen, the whole game goes to ****?
Nice straw man argument, but no.
None of these are the assertion I made.
One was the refutal that trammel abused third party programs more than PVPers.
The static fields are an example to the prior.
Revan, Timers on all pots. To include refresh. You can use plate armor to negate stam loss. This would also make fatigue mods useful on wpns.....that's a reach I know.
Static fields are not the sole reason anyone wins/loses a fight, but for the people that use it, its a crap ton easier to wall someone in/off and get your off/def fields into play. I know you know this. It's probably why you use it.
EC movement is quicker/more efficient than CC movement. Straight-line, no. Any sort of turns, yes, its faster. The dudes running the CC have EC movement. I'd love to do that without breaking the law and run the risk of having my acct banned.
The HCI reduction on moving shot is fair and makes sense. Just about every other suggestion affects pvm. No reason to penalize them cuz of 210 stam suits and ce. Moving shot should pretty much only affect pvp.
Hey Arnold, do you ever see anyone post pvp vidyas in the ec? No. Tell me why? I'm new and dumb. EC has all these benefits that all the top tier pvp'rs talk about....but I never see a video of any of them using it. If only someone knew why......
I don't whine and cry when I lose. I might drop an f-bomb, just cuz I get annoyed, but that's it. I usually am laughing my behind off when I'm playing. I always try to help new people out. Give money to legit new players or returning players. Explain some of the newer things that are going on. Blah blah blah. All I ever want for anyone is equality across the board. Right now, we don't have it. It's pretty blatant at times. Am I going to quit? No. Am I going to start using unapproved programs? No. Will I continue to ask for the devs to make stuff even? Yes.
If an individual cared about the actual population of UO and Fel, everyone might want to start caring about that. When you get Private Snuffy coming to Fel with a straight up dexxer and he can't run in a straight line away from someone running CE that skips in front of them, gets off the horse, dismounts, disarms, and kills them pretty quickly.....there is a good chance he's not gonna come back. If the d-bag wouldn't be running CE or everyone was allowed to run CE, the newer player would at least be able to have one thing even....speed.
Life is simple until you make it hard. Stop lying to yourselves. Turn off your bs. Unmod your client. Fight straight up....or at least ask the devs to make it legal for everyone to use it.
Static fields are not the sole reason anyone wins/loses a fight, but for the people that use it, its a crap ton easier to wall someone in/off and get your off/def fields into play. I know you know this. It's probably why you use it.
EC movement is quicker/more efficient than CC movement. Straight-line, no. Any sort of turns, yes, its faster. The dudes running the CC have EC movement. I'd love to do that without breaking the law and run the risk of having my acct banned.
The HCI reduction on moving shot is fair and makes sense. Just about every other suggestion affects pvm. No reason to penalize them cuz of 210 stam suits and ce. Moving shot should pretty much only affect pvp.
Hey Arnold, do you ever see anyone post pvp vidyas in the ec? No. Tell me why? I'm new and dumb. EC has all these benefits that all the top tier pvp'rs talk about....but I never see a video of any of them using it. If only someone knew why......
I don't whine and cry when I lose. I might drop an f-bomb, just cuz I get annoyed, but that's it. I usually am laughing my behind off when I'm playing. I always try to help new people out. Give money to legit new players or returning players. Explain some of the newer things that are going on. Blah blah blah. All I ever want for anyone is equality across the board. Right now, we don't have it. It's pretty blatant at times. Am I going to quit? No. Am I going to start using unapproved programs? No. Will I continue to ask for the devs to make stuff even? Yes.
If an individual cared about the actual population of UO and Fel, everyone might want to start caring about that. When you get Private Snuffy coming to Fel with a straight up dexxer and he can't run in a straight line away from someone running CE that skips in front of them, gets off the horse, dismounts, disarms, and kills them pretty quickly.....there is a good chance he's not gonna come back. If the d-bag wouldn't be running CE or everyone was allowed to run CE, the newer player would at least be able to have one thing even....speed.
Life is simple until you make it hard. Stop lying to yourselves. Turn off your bs. Unmod your client. Fight straight up....or at least ask the devs to make it legal for everyone to use it.
It also updates 1 tile sooner than CC does, and works like the third party FPS patcher program does.
It also has targeting macros that work exactly like the one's that people use with UOS.
It also allows people to run around static objects like trees in one move, instead of two, which is a super massive advantage that you could NEVER get on CC, regardless of cheats or not.
Yeah, EC pretty much gives you most of the abilities that third party programs give CC. But when you do it with CC it's "cheating." The only reason it's "cheating" is because they never update the rules and/or UOA. Remember when it was illegal to have a macro to use a potion? That's right. At one time, UO expected you to double click potions, and if you used UOA to set a macro for them, you were using an illegal third party program. UOA was even considered an illegal third party program at one time.
Because... people don't like EC. It's not the UO they remember. I wish I liked the graphics of EC. I would definitely play it over CC with all of it's functionality. But I just don't like it. It's not fun for me. It's like an updated version, that isn't actually up-to-date, of something I liked more in 2d.
And btw, Sibble plays on EC, and he also cries about UOS all of the time, even though EC is better then UOS. That is a fact. It does just about everything UOS does and then some.
And yeah, I'm 100% for the legalization of many various third party programs (like UOS), and I think just about every pvp'er would agree.
Hmm, you're parroting the same argument used by every program-using pvp'er. I wonder why...
Anyway, it does not take that much effort to recognize when someone's using a script (which is instant), speeder, etc. But do NOT sit there and tell me that there's no way to cast lightning faster than mini-heal, because I have seen it from multiple people. Nobody's said eliminating cheating/3rd party programs will solve everything, btw. But it will certainly go a LONG way.
Actually, we can. It's not hard.
It's like they have been cheating for so long that they have forgotten what UO is really like......that, or they are trying to convince themselves and others that what they use has no big effect on gameplay. I mean, if all the things that people use makes no difference cuz they are top-tier and/or have great skill.....why use it?
Also, I think shields should be disarmable. If you are fighting a 4/6 guy, you can rek his casting and parry.
I don't understand people trying to justify the use of cheat programs. If they don't give you an advantage like these people claim, why even bother using them?
Tldr
EC > CC
UO:S ~= EC
EC > CC
UO:S ~= EC
It's not about justifying it, im saying just because people use it , it doesn't make them the elite pvpers that people make them about to be.
It isn't that much of an advantage but yes it's enough to use it.
My original point is tram is far wosre for exploring cheating then fel but people get so blind sided but it because it's not pvp.
Everyone ignores the vendors stacked with resources imbuing ingredients and other farmed stuff.
People just don't like others putting spins on there arguments.
It isn't that much of an advantage but yes it's enough to use it.
My original point is tram is far wosre for exploring cheating then fel but people get so blind sided but it because it's not pvp.
Everyone ignores the vendors stacked with resources imbuing ingredients and other farmed stuff.
People just don't like others putting spins on there arguments.
The classic client is a hodge podge memory hog of a buggy client. You know, I used to crash about 5 times per night if I had continuous fights. There is a patch out there (not made by EA/Mythic/etc) that fixes the memory leak and makes it stable on 64 bit systems.
According to all of you try hard poor pvpers using something to fix the client that EA/Mythic/Bioware couldn't do is a "cheat".
Just stop crying. Accept the fact that you died and try to figure out how to do better next time. You're never going to get better if you keep a blanket excuse in your back pocket every time you get worked.
According to all of you try hard poor pvpers using something to fix the client that EA/Mythic/Bioware couldn't do is a "cheat".
Just stop crying. Accept the fact that you died and try to figure out how to do better next time. You're never going to get better if you keep a blanket excuse in your back pocket every time you get worked.
So basically you are saying yes it does give you an advantage. Got it
The cheaters are the biggest "spin makers". Then they talk down to the people that don't cheat and act like their skill is superior with no redoubt. How does that work? Haha. Forgive me if I don't take you 100% serious.
You are the top-tier individuals......have all the skill.....use cheats.....and talk trash.
Tell me why the population is dwindling and it's hard to get new people to fel?
Outside of the sarcastic zone, it's so easy to pvp against guilds that aren't cheating their asses off. They play the same game I play. It's level, it's fun. We slap hands after. That is fun.
Playing against you self-described "top-tier" individuals that cheat and script and mod.....is not as fun. It's irritating. People like y'all wreck the game. You don't enhance it. Stop cheating. Play fair.
Sidenote: timers on all pots, make shields disarmable (it's on an arm, just like a wpn), ban cheaters or make the common sense game-enhancing stuff legal, leave remove curse alone, put hci-debuff on moving shot.
You are the top-tier individuals......have all the skill.....use cheats.....and talk trash.
Tell me why the population is dwindling and it's hard to get new people to fel?
Outside of the sarcastic zone, it's so easy to pvp against guilds that aren't cheating their asses off. They play the same game I play. It's level, it's fun. We slap hands after. That is fun.
Playing against you self-described "top-tier" individuals that cheat and script and mod.....is not as fun. It's irritating. People like y'all wreck the game. You don't enhance it. Stop cheating. Play fair.
Sidenote: timers on all pots, make shields disarmable (it's on an arm, just like a wpn), ban cheaters or make the common sense game-enhancing stuff legal, leave remove curse alone, put hci-debuff on moving shot.
LMAO. These cheaters coming in extra hard with their excuses
I like the whole "Lol?" comment.....psht.
Maybe stop cheating? "Lol?"
Maybe stop cheating? "Lol?"
Agreed many posts here of players who don't even step into fel.
Toogled specs whilst casting needs to come back
Not enough diversity of pvp /pvm templates.
Toogled specs whilst casting needs to come back
Not enough diversity of pvp /pvm templates.
Help me out, perhaps I'm being dense, but how are the toggled specs going to spread template diversity?
I can't say I'm against it without knowing, just not sure how it helps.
Bring back tank mages again they used to be popular.
4/6 chiv dexxers again used to be a popular temp
Some variation of necro dexxers
With all the crazy drops you get now I'm sure people would enjoy being creative.
Those were just basic temp back at that time with splinter weapons boks it could open more diversity.
You are not dense, just lack creativity maybe ?
4/6 chiv dexxers again used to be a popular temp
Some variation of necro dexxers
With all the crazy drops you get now I'm sure people would enjoy being creative.
Those were just basic temp back at that time with splinter weapons boks it could open more diversity.
You are not dense, just lack creativity maybe ?
Well it is fair to say no one should take this guy serious when it comes to pvp.
LOL. And this is the guy that said he can tell when people are cheating. He is exactly one of the people that accuses legit players of cheating and can't tell the difference. These people make up in their heads what these cheats are able to do.
It is possible, just can't think of the template(s) offhand.
Either way can't say Id be against it since I do have a parry tactics Mage.
I think we've beat this one to death.
You can maintain no one is cheating and they're all usin EC.
I maintain that this isn't accurate and provided a link to multiple videos showing otherwise along with multiple examples in game. (This doesn't even account for the ones just straight out admit it.)
We can agree to disagree, but let's get back to balance.
You and I aren't even talking about the same thing. Find one post where I said no one is cheating and everyone is using EC. You can't just make things up. I haven't said that once, let alone "maintain" it. You are missing the point entirely.
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Oh, I'm sorry, did you forget how you "pvp" already, Paith? If you wanna call that pvp, anyway...
Oh really? I fight people that DON'T cheat (i.e. HOT) and it shows. Sure, they aren't good, but it's not impossible for me to survive a gank (even when dismounted, although that's not guaranteed) and/or actually kill a few of them while outnumbered. The reason(s) why: They aren't cheating and I'm flat-out better than they are. But you're right, I'm making all this **** up despite it being easily recognizable. If it weren't for Stratics frowning on it, I'd name every single person doing the cheating (but then again, I don't have to, since they've outed themselves by defending it...)
But back to the point of this thread. I've said a few times what (IMO) should be fixed, but to steer it back on topic: eliminate Curse/Corpse stacking, Damage reduction/HCI penalty for Moving Shot, 1.5 second swings for Archers, Alchemy breaks focused spec, remove the 80% Cap on EP & reduce it to 50% (with the choice of either Alchemy or the EP property to get it), increase mana cost for the "Big 3" Chiv spells & slow them down a bit.
You and are talking about the same thing and have been. Otherwise I'm not sure why you been refuting my posts with "I get accused of X too" followed by an EC reference and "They can't tell the difference anyways" when i directly refer you to that argument.
Again, we can discuss this in private message if you want to continue it further.
There's nothing to be gained doing it here.
Example would be #451
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Right the point I'm making isn't that no one cheats. The point is the cheating that takes place is insignificant enough that no one can tell unless they are watching a captured video someone uploaded. Speed, mechanics, everything else can have other explanations that doesn't necessarily mean illegal 3rd party program. People jumped in claiming that they can tell, yet the people claiming this are wrong about half the people they accuse, which means that they really can't tell. That's it.
Yeah, the static fields are insignificant. But people have used the same Mods to run through tree stumps or stacking fields which is very significant. These were very noticeable in game. Though I don't know if they still do this lately, I haven't PVPed in large groups for some time.
Another example occurs when people are using 3rd party programs to increase the Frames per second which is otherwise limited by the client. Mage dueling is a primary example when I'm pinging in the teens and somebody is ridiculously faster than I am at casting. It could be a better connection, sure, but I'd put money on that it isn't.
Some of the speed and reaction can be accounted for, but this isn't 100% across the board regardless who's accused of it.
Oh well either way this doesn't hold much value to the balance conversation.
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Frames doesn't equal higher casting cap. Period. You can't out cast the casting caps, everything is server side capped not like it used to be within your client. Back then you could do many things via impassible ticks etc etc..you can no longer do that, unless of course your running the server. A simple macro in the EC will out cycle anyone in the CC regardless of speedhacks, WtFast, or and frame patchers. I hate to bum out "PvPers" like Cossack..but he's a moron. He dies so he cries hacks. You CANNNNNNNOT exceed server side caps..it's physically impossible, no matter what anyone says. They've broken impassible checks recently..which were fixed very fast. I know how to do it and can clearly show anyone how it just does not work.
Furthermore you can't even trick the server by rubber banding anymore..
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Actually you can't. Before I started getting really bad macro lag, people used to accuse me of using a box script all of the time, when I did no such thing. People have accused me of using casting scripts in dueling- which is absurd. And no, lightning cannot cast faster than a mini heal under any circumstance.
If static fields are insignificant....why do people use them? Same goes for CE and UOS. The argument of they are insignificant makes no sense.
You can tell when people are cheating in game....not just in videos. I don't understand why a gm doesnt just follow the known cheaters around one night and observe it, and/or if they are observing, why are they doing nothing?
Edit: oreogl, I think this talk has a lot to do with "balance".
You can tell when people are cheating in game....not just in videos. I don't understand why a gm doesnt just follow the known cheaters around one night and observe it, and/or if they are observing, why are they doing nothing?
Edit: oreogl, I think this talk has a lot to do with "balance".
Okay, that's a deductive fallacy. That would be like saying, "well, criminals can just shoot a police officer in the face, so we should just do away with bullet proof vests." The notion that something should be completely done away with just because it's possible to overcome, is a result of dramatic, partisan thinking. You're not even attempting to see things from our point of view.
Yes, it is a considerable amount of damage. But that's the benefit of having the alchemy skill... It is not over-powered. And as far as the damage with corpse and curse stacked goes, that combo would not only take 3 people to do (just for one nova), but it will most likely also be nerfed pretty soon.
Lol every time the people who get worked start crying cheats, and then everyone jumps in with their own anecdotes, and then my favorite thing in the world happens:
They come up with a cheat that does not and has not existed since mages could get 4/6 casting.
Cossack: no one casts lightning faster than mini heal. you are just extremely slow and looking for excuses for dying.
They come up with a cheat that does not and has not existed since mages could get 4/6 casting.
Cossack: no one casts lightning faster than mini heal. you are just extremely slow and looking for excuses for dying.
I'd imagine it's a matter of convenience. Who wants to sit there and try and click a para field with a dispel field toggled? If you own a store, you can get an electrical switch to move the steel gates that cover your shop when you close, or you can do it by hand. Does the electrical switch mean you have an "unfair advantage" in the market place, and you should be arrested for it? No. It's just convenient.
If you think that static fields are so OP, just play EC, as Arnold already explained.
I get that it's a matter of convenience. I'm not arguing that one iota. No one WANTS to sit there and click one stupid field display when you could just target the tile as a whole. It's a pretty big advantage when someone has a modded CC over someone that doesnt have that.
I think that pretty much everyone that plays CC plays it cuz the graphics in the EC make you want to vomit. I do play with both.....but would much rather play CC for the previous listed reason of why the EC sucks balls.
My point is equality. To make modding your client bannable for static fields in the CC is dumb when you can do it in the EC with no repercussion.
If there is no significant advantage, I would assume that EVERYONE would be pushing for Bleak to make that tweak....or to enforce the ToS, as it stands, so the playing field is fair for EVERYONE. PvP balance is PvP balance.
I'm bad/extremely slow/looking for excuses for dying? Lynk, that's hilarious coming from you. Here's a challenge for you: play ONE DAY in the CC like a normal player would (let's say with UOA and no other programs) and get back to me about how different the game is.
I may have the exact order of the statement wrong, since it was said a month or two ago, but both parts were said: "I've never seen a dexer as bad as 'player', nor have I have ever seen anyone tile-skipping so much." So, yeah, it really isn't hard to recognize.
Lightning/mini-heal: Meh, it's possible I just timed it badly (once, anyway), but there is a VERY noticeable difference between a .5 second spell and a 1.25 second spell...which is more than enough time to react. It wasn't due to ping advantage either: In the few duels I've had with @OREOGL on LS, who, from his earlier statements, pings in the teens, his casting speed was not much different from mine (with a ping in the 30's.)
Ping is not the only thing that affects the appearance of speed. There is also packet loss. When your game freezes and other people's game doesn't, but they appear frozen for you and then suddenly they move REALLY fast, that is usually packet loss. If you freeze for just a second, just before your opponent casts a lightning, when you come out of the packet loss "spike" it will appear as if your opponent was casting the lightning super quickly. It doesn't mean they did, it just appeared that way to you. This is the only thing I can think of to explain how someone might have managed to cast a lightning that quickly.
I can most certainly assure you though that there is no reasonable doubt in my mind that you cannot cast a lightning faster than a weaken.
Also, in regards to "jumping around the screen," many things can cause that affect. Ping, packet loss, speed hacks, and EC/FPS patcher. If you ever watch someone on EC while you are on CC, they will appear to jump around your screen a bit, because as I explained earlier, their game updates faster than yours.
EC's speed only applies to turning. Straight line, there is no difference, and I have NO problem keeping up with them on the CC. Have you already forgotten how often I've played with Sibble? btw, that quote was one of MANY examples of known CC users running IN A STRAIGHT LINE.
The first was rhetorical. It was merely pointing out the argument that these are more effective than let on by whomever I had replied to at the time.
The second was in reference to the first.
All in all, if these never got nerfed I couldn't care much though they are a pain in choke point.
Really the double conflags are nothing more than a bug and wouldn't necessary say it's causing an imbalance, as annoying as they can be sometimes. Particularly in dungeons.
Yeah cossack demolishing your guild 4vs15 on LS was because of "how we pvp".
@PaithanTheElf You must really suck man!
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