Chivalry in Fel

[PaithanTheElf]

Chivalry was supposed to be the skill that was on par to being necromancy's opposite but equal skill. Why is 4/6 chivalry still allowed in fel?

Chivalry needs some sort of nerf.

I am not sure what the exact right answer is- but it has been downright silly for years.

Why does necro need a sister skill to be useful and chivalry doesnt? Maybe it should be tied to a random skill for effectiveness. Tying it to Karma is a slap in the face.

If necro is capped at 2/6, shouldn't chivalry also be capped there?

If a chiv char stands still and a mage tries to harm spam while they spam close wounds- the chiv char will get it off and it is for 30+ damage heals.

Remove curse is the biggest offender of the spells really. First it is WAY to fast at 4 fc. That needs to be slowed down. Second- it should not remove EVERY curse on someone. It should remove curse and not curses. This is by far the most overpowered defensive spell in game. The fact that it can be cast practically on the run and is nearly impossible to ever disrupt is the most mind boggling thing. I get that pvmers like it, but get that garbage out of fel. That one instant spell completely negates a necro by the way.

What is the cure rate with max karma and cleanse by fire? It seems that instant cure never fails either.

There needs to be some give and take for how powerful these spells are. If they are lightning fast casts, they should be doing less (heal for less, remove less curses, higher chance to fail cures). If they are that powerful, they should have a longer cast.

 

[Fridgster]

So um... your not sure that it's op but it should be adjusted.... am I missing something?

 

[PwnySlaystation]

You can out-time a 4/6er spamming cleansing with harms. Alas, I agree, chiv is way too overpowered.

 

[Lord Frodo]

So a Skill that came to being with AoS February 11, 2003 and has basically remained unchanged for 13 years has now become OP, shacks head and walks away thinking "Someone got their butt handed to them."

 

[OREOGL]

So a Skill that came to being with AoS February 11, 2003 and has basically remained unchanged for 13 years has now become OP, shacks head and walks away thinking "Someone got their butt handed to them."

Yeah, or "they're too hard to kill."

Chivalry is essentially worthless in pvp except holy first, close wounds, and remove curse. The rest are pvm related.

Aside from this it's only on dex templates since 4/6 goes away with I think with just about any other spell casting with 80 or more skill.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

So um... your not sure that it's op but it should be adjusted.... am I missing something?

Clearly. I said it IS overpowered.

I don't know which fix I suggested makes more sense. Tying it to another skill or just slowing it down/making it less effective.

 

[Ender]

Leave it the **** alone, I don't need my PvM characters nerfed because of PvP any more.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

So a Skill that came to being with AoS February 11, 2003 and has basically remained unchanged for 13 years has now become OP, shacks head and walks away thinking "Someone got their butt handed to them."

I have not died to a chiv char one v one even when fist was doing 50. Thanks for your concern.

But let me get this straight you believe that being able to remove curse while running is fair and that it SHOULD be able to take off a all of a necro/mages debuffs in one spell? So a mage/necro could cast strangle, oath, corpse skin, omen, curse, weaken, feeble, clumsy.. and a chiv char can cast one spell (almost instantly) to remove them all?

I'd like to hear an argument of how it is fair and not when it was implemented.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

You can out-time a 4/6er spamming cleansing with harms. Alas, I agree, chiv is way too overpowered.

If I am on a chiv char, you would never be able to out-time me with harm. Fact.

Yeah, or "they're too hard to kill."

Chivalry is essentially worthless in pvp except holy first, close wounds, and remove curse. The rest are pvm related.

Aside from this it's only on dex templates since 4/6 goes away with I think with just about any other spell casting with 80 or more skill.

You also forgot cleanse by fire and the instant full life heal or instant dispells, but that is beside the point. The timing does not equal out to how powerful any of it is.

**Remove curse is really the main concern here. But the rest all have merit.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I have not died to a chiv char one v one even when fist was doing 50. Thanks for your concern.

But let me get this straight you believe that being able to remove curse while running is fair and that it SHOULD be able to take off a all of a necro/mages debuffs in one spell? So a mage/necro could cast strangle, oath, corpse skin, omen, curse, weaken, feeble, clumsy.. and a chiv char can cast one spell (almost instantly) to remove them all?

I'd like to hear an argument of how it is fair and not when it was implemented.

Alls this reeks of is either "someone kicked my butt" or "I could not kill this person" that is running a template that came into being 13 years ago. This has been this way for so long and I am sure others have figured out how to kill a Paladin maybe you should ask other PvPers.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Leave it the **** alone, I don't need my PvM characters nerfed because of PvP any more.

AMEN

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Alls this reeks of is either "someone kicked my butt" or "I could not kill this person" that is running a template that came into being 13 years ago. This has been this way for so long and I am sure others have figured out how to kill a Paladin maybe you should ask other PvPers.

Ah, so you can't come up with a reason as to why one spell that is instant cast should negate a whole template? Ok Thanks. Come back when you have an answer.

Edit: What this reeks of from you is "I need this overpowered spell, PLZ DONT FIX!"

 

[Lord Frodo]

I am so sorry that a PvMer, that is needed to do a Champ Spawn, got away with all the goodies because he/she learned the best template to use and now you want this template nerfed just because of it. Sorry to tell you this but UO is not all about PvP being the top dog on the block, there is another side to UO that the majority plays too. Maybe if you want to kill a Paladin you should try a different template like I am sure that others have done many times in the past 13 years.

 

[Tyrath]

No offense but I am a terrible PvP and can hold my own or even occasionally take down a paladin. No Nerfs needed based on that alone.

 

[Merlin]

Leave Chivalry alone. Especially for PVM. It is one of the few skills that truly benefits from 4/6 casting.

Changing it on the whim of an extreme minority of butt-hurt PVPers would be a huge mistake.

 

[OREOGL]

If I am on a chiv char, you would never be able to out-time me with harm. Fact.


You also forgot cleanse by fire and the instant full life heal or instant dispells, but that is beside the point. The timing does not equal out to how powerful any of it is.

**Remove curse is really the main concern here. But the rest all have merit.

Doesnt cleanse by fire just remove poison but also does damage when using it? I guess I'd just use pots but i get the point.

You'll have to remind me though, are chiv heals around 30 points?

It's true the instant dispels are annoying.

If they tweaked remove curse I'd expect them to also tweak cleansing winds.


I could buy the argument that remove curse should only remove one debuff. But then again, how many does and enchanted Apple remove?

 

[Cady]

It's pretty obnoxious having Remove Curse spammed IFO you while also having to chase em around while they're casting it. Fights end up going nowhere. A decent paladin should never die to a mage 1v1, I mean, some out there still do, but that's just sad on their part, and shows the level of player out there who are resorting to this temp now. The paladin tamer temp... So annoying, dread mares take forever to kill and if you try sicking a Daemon on these peeps, the Daemon's instantly dispelled as well. It doesn't just negate necro spells, it negates just about all other casting's spells. All the while only taking 120 skill points, making it ridiculously versatile in hybridizing with other offensive skills. Not that Holy Fist requires anything to compliment it for firepower/DPS, it rly takes the cake. Thunderstorm or all kill and holy fist spam, while being just about invincible 1v1. Slow that **** down, the PvMers aren't going to get trampled on just because they're capped at 2/6, it's pvm, if you're getting fizzled step a couple more tiles back.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

I am so sorry that a PvMer, that is needed to do a Champ Spawn, got away with all the goodies because he/she learned the best template to use and now you want this template nerfed just because of it. Sorry to tell you this but UO is not all about PvP being the top dog on the block, there is another side to UO that the majority plays too. Maybe if you want to kill a Paladin you should try a different template like I am sure that others have done many times in the past 13 years.

You keep repeating yourself without giving a reason.

Let me know why you think 4/6 remove curse should remove everything in an instant.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Doesnt cleanse by fire just remove poison but also does damage when using it? I guess I'd just use pots but i get the point.

You'll have to remind me though, are chiv heals around 30 points?

It's true the instant dispels are annoying.

If they tweaked remove curse I'd expect them to also tweak cleansing winds.


I could buy the argument that remove curse should only remove one debuff. But then again, how many does and enchanted Apple remove?

I haven't used chiv in a while, but I don't think you take damage or something like one. And then you can cure deadly poison instantly with it.

I am not even saying to remove 4/6 casting. But there are certain spells that need to be lengthened or be lessened in the power if kept at the same speed.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

It's pretty obnoxious having Remove Curse spammed IFO you while also having to chase em around while they're casting it. Fights end up going nowhere. A decent paladin should never die to a mage 1v1, I mean, some out there still do, but that's just sad on their part, and shows the level of player out there who are resorting to this temp now. The paladin tamer temp... So annoying, dread mares take forever to kill and if you try sicking a Daemon on these peeps, the Daemon's instantly dispelled as well. It doesn't just negate necro spells, it negates just about all other casting's spells. All the while only taking 120 skill points, making it ridiculously versatile in hybridizing with other offensive skills. Not that Holy Fist requires anything to compliment it for firepower/DPS, it rly takes the cake. Thunderstorm or all kill and holy fist spam, while being just about invincible 1v1. Slow that **** down, the PvMers aren't going to get trampled on just because they're capped at 2/6, it's pvm, if you're getting fizzled step a couple more tiles back.

You just made way too much sense.

I was only making the comparison vs necro because it was supposed to be the yin to the necros yang. Yet necros need 240 skill points and the whole temp still gets negated with one spell.

 

[OREOGL]

I haven't used chiv in a while, but I don't think you take damage or something like one. And then you can cure deadly poison instantly with it.

I am not even saying to remove 4/6 casting. But there are certain spells that need to be lengthened or be lessened in the power if kept at the same speed.

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure it takes maybe 5 points off a shot, but really not relative.

They could look into just capping 4/6 to 2/6, which adds .5 seconds to each spell.

I'm not really invested in it anyways, but may be worth considering.

Not sure if it's really affect PVM doing it.

 

[Garen]

Just cap it at 2/6, lets not tweak with the spells.

 

[Fridgster]

Just cap it at 2/6, lets not tweak with the spells.

Let's not and say we did. That was fun wasn't it?

 

[OREOGL]

Let's not and say we did. That was fun wasn't it?

Like I said, I've nothing invested in it but just curious as to your reasoning why not?

Does .5 seconds make a big difference in pvm?

 

[CovenantX]

With Corpse skin becoming better, I can see why chivalry has become "OP", up until holy-fist was added to it, the offensive power of chivalry was a joke, it was defense & utility (pvp). Now it's pretty competitive offensively & one of the best skills defensively

As for Chivalry>Cleanse by Fire: Cure chance, I believe any spell that is interruptible (even though this particular spell is very f-ing hard to interrupt) should be much better than any potion should EVER be healing, curing, or otherwise. (no nerf required)

Chivalry (120.0) + (max) Positive Karma = full benefit.
Necromancy + Spirit Speak (240.0)+ (min) Negative Karma = full benefit.

I'm pretty sure the original intent of the "Focus" skill was to be complimentary to Chivalry, but Focus is now tied to the Mysticism Skill.
I think chivalry is fine the way it is, it certainly doesn't need a buff, but (IMO) there are other things that need nerfs more than chivalry.

Although, I am more curious as to how the "Pvmers" think that the OP's suggested changes would affect them on the pvm side of things.
I've never seen a 4/6 pvmer, most people only use 3 spells for pvm (EoO, D-F, & Consecrate), none of which would change because typically they wouldn't run FC/FCR for those spells anyway.... (I think people just like to troll anything pvp-related)

 

[Lord Frodo]

IMHO I think PvPers just want everything NERFED except their Temp so they can be the top junkyard dog. So there are no Spawns out there that has spellcasters in it or GANK SQUADS waiting to raid a PvMer doing a spawn. Sorry everything is not about PvP.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

IMHO I think PvPers just want everything NERFED except their Temp so they can be the top junkyard dog. So there are no Spawns out there that has spellcasters in it or GANK SQUADS waiting to raid a PvMer doing a spawn. Sorry everything is not about PvP.

Hmm.. i have given very legitimate reasons.

You have not given any reason of how it is aligned and fair.

I even kept it to fel, so chiv wouldn't affect your tram pvm. Now quit posting in this thread unless you are actually bringing something to the discussion instead of derailing it with something that is not the topic.

 

[Merlin]

If you can't beat 'em, then join 'em and take advantage of it yourself.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

If you can't beat 'em, then join 'em and take advantage of it yourself.

The point is to try and get balance. Not to take advantage of something way overpowered (defensively).

I am still waiting for a legitimate post with reason as to how it is balanced.

 

[Dot_Warner]

More often then not, PvP "balance" has come at the expense of the rest of the game.

Unless the devs can learn to code changes only for PvP activity they shouldn't screw with things.

 

[CovenantX]

More often then not, PvP "balance" has come at the expense of the rest of the game.

Unless the devs can learn to code changes only for PvP activity they shouldn't screw with things.

I read that a lot here. although I would like to see some examples of it sometime as well as proof of it being adjusted solely for "Pvp balance". (I don't disagree, I'm just curious)

I'd like to think the devs would adjust things for the purpose of "Balance" so that there are a variety of useful ways to deal with certain situations in both PvP & PvM aspects.
This is supposed to be a sand-box-MMORPG, isn't it?

 

[OREOGL]

More often then not, PvP "balance" has come at the expense of the rest of the game.

Unless the devs can learn to code changes only for PvP activity they shouldn't screw with things.

I'm not sure I really buy into this sort of logic.

By looking at it, there really isn't any definition of being "overpowered" in PVM. You can grind until you're blue in the face, but I'd be curious to know what expense you think it has brought to the rest of the game.

Unless you were just using a blanket statement.

 

[Lord Frodo]

The point is to try and get balance. Not to take advantage of something way overpowered (defensively).

I am still waiting for a legitimate post with reason as to how it is balanced.

So this thing has been OP for 13 years and now all of a sudden it needs NERFED, this must have been the best kept secret in all of UO. So it does what they say it does and the ONLY reason you want it nerfed is because you could not kill someone running Chiv that tells me everything I need to know. I am so sorry that there is a template that you can not own but for some reason you are the only one that has asked for a NERF in 13 years. Congratulations on finding the BEST KEPT SECRET IN UO and bringing it out. Goes out to but CHIV on every one of my fighters. As far as BALANCE goes the only BALANCE you want is to own all temps out there and to doodoo with PvMers.

 

[cobb]

Please leave Chivalry alone. It was fine the way it was for over a decade.

 

[Cady]

So this thing has been OP for 13 years and now all of a sudden it needs NERFED, this must have been the best kept secret in all of UO. So it does what they say it does and the ONLY reason you want it nerfed is because you could not kill someone running Chiv that tells me everything I need to know. I am so sorry that there is a template that you can not own but for some reason you are the only one that has asked for a NERF in 13 years. Congratulations on finding the BEST KEPT SECRET IN UO and bringing it out. Goes out to but CHIV on every one of my fighters. As far as BALANCE goes the only BALANCE you want is to own all temps out there and to doodoo with PvMers.

Chiv only recently became relevant because of Holy Fist and the changes in armor. Chiv has always had the best defense spells in the game, but a warrior without poisoning, necro, archery, or some other offensive skill always fel a bit short of having enough firepower to be competitive in PvP since AoS. Not too many pure melee chars out there were viable for a while(especially since the caps put on enhance potions and stats) that's not true now with the ridiculous stats people can get on their suits for chaining specials for days.

The changes in armor also make chivalry more viable as the sole skill people use for healing. People used to never use it without healing(except for sampires) bc the mana toll it took. And mana is really not an issue anymore bc ridic mana increase and regen is easy to get.

You obviously don't know much about PvP now or the history of PvP changes in the game. But how will a half second longer casting time on Chiv spells break PvM for you? I don't get it, if I'm trying to pull off Greater Heals on my Mage and I've got a screen full of imps I just back off enough tiles to be out of their range, easy peasy.

 

[Dot_Warner]

I'm not sure I really buy into this sort of logic.

By looking at it, there really isn't any definition of being "overpowered" in PVM. You can grind until you're blue in the face, but I'd be curious to know what expense you think it has brought to the rest of the game.

Unless you were just using a blanket statement.

It was a fairly blanket statement, seeing as tweaks made responding to the perceived PvP imbalance du jour have a way of rippling out beyond those players/Fel.

Examples include pretty much every nerf to archery, the change to spells resetting the swing timer (which was later reverted), the beat down nerfing of Nature's Fury, potion weight...

 

[drcossack]

So this thing has been OP for 13 years and now all of a sudden it needs NERFED, this must have been the best kept secret in all of UO. So it does what they say it does and the ONLY reason you want it nerfed is because you could not kill someone running Chiv that tells me everything I need to know. I am so sorry that there is a template that you can not own but for some reason you are the only one that has asked for a NERF in 13 years. Congratulations on finding the BEST KEPT SECRET IN UO and bringing it out. Goes out to but CHIV on every one of my fighters. As far as BALANCE goes the only BALANCE you want is to own all temps out there and to doodoo with PvMers.

No, Chiv was never OP for 13 years. Back in the day, you'd likely get 3/6 at best, unless you found some decent jewels as monster loot. But I believe 2/6 Chiv was far more likely. Even then, Chiv's primary use in pvp was for defense/healing. Fast forward to 2015, and not only is 4/6 ridiculously easy to get, Chiv's offensive potential goes through the roof with the addition of Holy Fist's 50 damage and inability to be interrupted. Fist got a slight nerf, but it's still fairly powerful. That was probably the only time where Chiv was OP as **** - guys that were EASY kills without 50 damage Fist suddenly became good overnight.

Whether or not Paith can kill someone using 4/6 Chiv or not is irrelevant. The fact is, Cleanse by Fire, Remove Curse, and Close Wounds will cast far faster than anything a mage can do, barring certain low level spells like Harm (which, even at the closest range possible, does far less than the Chiv user can heal for) or Weaken. Is it OP? No. Learn how to deal with it. A slight decrease in their casting speed would be great though. Maybe a cap of 3/6?

To put it another way: Get a group of 5-6 people, and I'll play a 4/6 Chiv dexer. I will mow through your entire group in a couple minutes, while you won't be able to kill me.

 

[elster]

The "don't nerf chiv" crowd has yet to provide anything meaningful to this conversation other than "leave it alone", or "don't, it'll ruin PVM", without actually providing any details or reason why. I was on the fence, but I have to agree with the other side, they bring are bringing up legitimately good arguments.

 

[cobb]

Magery has the option to cast Protection to prevent having spells disrupted. Chivalry does not have that or any utility spells. Unless Chivalry also has an option to avoid disruptions, then 4/6 casting should be left alone.

 

[transcendent]

I have not died to a chiv char one v one even when fist was doing 50.

Then no nerf is needed.

 

[OREOGL]

It was a fairly blanket statement, seeing as tweaks made responding to the perceived PvP imbalance du jour have a way of rippling out beyond those players/Fel.

Examples include pretty much every nerf to archery, the change to spells resetting the swing timer (which was later reverted), the beat down nerfing of Nature's Fury, potion weight...

I find most of these to be pretty arguable, but off the top of my head I could only think of one example which was the nerfing they gave to greater dragons, but even then I dont recall if it affected PVM.

The problem is I don't think anyone could really draw the line at a PVM powercap.

Everyone wants the 1M HP mob dead 5 minutes ago.


I find the tweaks to PVP pretty minor in comparison.

 

[OREOGL]

Magery has the option to cast Protection to prevent having spells disrupted. Chivalry does not have that or any utility spells. Unless Chivalry also has an option to avoid disruptions, then 4/6 casting should be left alone.

To be fair, im pretty sure any template can use protection, which is also at the expense of faster casting.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I LOVE IT. This is all about a PvPer unable to kill a PvMer running Chiv and screaming here on the boards that it needs NERFED. People have been using Chiv for 13 years, this is not something out of the blue that people just discovered and all of a sudden it is some OVER POWERED skill. I own a Pinto do you think Ford will fix it for me.

Please do not tell me that all the PvPers out there are unable to kill this UBBER Template. OMG the most LEET Temp is not a PvPer. All you PvMers go out and make Chiv warriors, Chiv tamers or Chiv whatever and lets rule UO.

 

[drcossack]

Magery has the option to cast Protection to prevent having spells disrupted. Chivalry does not have that or any utility spells. Unless Chivalry also has an option to avoid disruptions, then 4/6 casting should be left alone.

4/6 as it is now is ridiculously hard to interrupt, and pretty much requires you to do nothing but that. People who were around pvp for the pre-Pub 25 era will remember 4/6 & 5/6 casting, and that was for mages. Since I'm guessing you didn't pvp then: It was utterly ridiculous how much firepower they had. Curse/Explo/FS/EBolt/Ebolt again if needed, and the person getting dumped on would die in the time it took to blink. If the target had dialup, they'd die before they even knew what hit them.

Protection is a poor argument, because most players don't use it, barring specific situations like ensuring a summon; after it's done, the spell goes back off. The resist penalty makes you para-bait, and the FC penalty has a VERY drastic effect on timing if you're used to playing without it.

Then no nerf is needed.

Anyone that says they never died to 50 damage Fist chars 1v1, is either lying or never actually fought one 1v1.

 

[Cady]

Magery has the option to cast Protection to prevent having spells disrupted. Chivalry does not have that or any utility spells. Unless Chivalry also has an option to avoid disruptions, then 4/6 casting should be left alone.

There are some pretty serious penalties to protection, it's relevant in select situations. Mages aren't running around in protection except for the horde of bad players in guilds like HOT that spam cleansing winds and flamestrike.

4/6 Chiv > Protection. Remove Curse and Cleanse by Fire, you are very lucky if you manage to fizzle one of those, but you'll fizzle it once, it'll be cast successfully before your next weaken is rdy to target. And weaken isn't doing any damage for you obv.
Close wounds is also extremely hard to fizzle, it seems it casts faster than the delay to a magic arrow, so magic arrow-weaken spam won't work, and chasing someone around the field with harm isn't gonna get you many kills, the paladin will get some distance and you'll miss a fizzle closing that distance.

 

[OREOGL]

No, Chiv was never OP for 13 years. Back in the day, you'd likely get 3/6 at best, unless you found some decent jewels as monster loot. But I believe 2/6 Chiv was far more likely. Even then, Chiv's primary use in pvp was for defense/healing. Fast forward to 2015, and not only is 4/6 ridiculously easy to get, Chiv's offensive potential goes through the roof with the addition of Holy Fist's 50 damage and inability to be interrupted. Fist got a slight nerf, but it's still fairly powerful. That was probably the only time where Chiv was OP as **** - guys that were EASY kills without 50 damage Fist suddenly became good overnight.

Whether or not Paith can kill someone using 4/6 Chiv or not is irrelevant. The fact is, Cleanse by Fire, Remove Curse, and Close Wounds will cast far faster than anything a mage can do, barring certain low level spells like Harm (which, even at the closest range possible, does far less than the Chiv user can heal for) or Weaken. Is it OP? No. Learn how to deal with it. A slight decrease in their casting speed would be great though. Maybe a cap of 3/6?

To put it another way: Get a group of 5-6 people, and I'll play a 4/6 Chiv dexer. I will mow through your entire group in a couple minutes, while you won't be able to kill me.

To play devils advocate, I doubt you'd mow through anyone on a template using chiv. Hard to kill, yes. Kill them? Probably not.

 

[Cady]

I LOVE IT. This is all about a PvPer unable to kill a PvMer running Chiv and screaming here on the boards that it needs NERFED. People have been using Chiv for 13 years, this is not something out of the blue that people just discovered and all of a sudden it is some OVER POWERED skill. I own a Pinto do you think Ford will fix it for me.

Please do not tell me that all the PvPers out there are unable to kill this UBBER Template. OMG the most LEET Temp is not a PvPer. All you PvMers go out and make Chiv warriors, Chiv tamers or Chiv whatever and lets rule UO.

Not everything is about you, when did Paithan or anyone else complain about not being able to kill PvMers? I think you're giving yourself too much credit.
When you get stuck in traffic do you sit and wonder why all the cars stopped moving just to keep YOU from getting to work on time?
You also seem to think Chiv is purely a PvM skill, what's that about? It's probably the most popular PvP skill in the game right now thanks to holy fist and legendary arti armor and jewelry. You're looting all them monsters you kill, right? You've seen some of the ridiculous jewels out there.

 

[CovenantX]

To play devils advocate, I doubt you'd mow through anyone on a template using chiv. Hard to kill, yes. Kill them? Probably not.

That is why I don't think it's necessary to nerf chivalry.

 

[CovenantX]

When you get stuck in traffic do you sit and wonder why all the cars stopped moving just to keep YOU from getting to work on time?

I'm almost 100% positive they do it to piss me off.
(mostly when I'm trying to get somewhere I actually want to be though) =X /sarcasm

 

[OREOGL]

That is why I don't think it's necessary to nerf chivalry.

I am back and forth because of this reason. However, I don't believe any template should be almost invincible.

I guess someone else can take that argument from there. Having it nerfed or not doesnt make much difference to me.