We Demand VVV items Put Back on Siege Help make this Server Fun Again

[Critical Gaming]

Are you referring to the thread your guildmaster posted?:

My Shard

The Dishonored Tjalle, Legendary Troll.

I think this is a thread demonstrating how serious GIL actually does take HI-5, by 30 people not showing up to VvV Sunday for fear of being looted on a non-insurance shard by the two people who were online

Also, the multiple 'zora' threads on whitecouncil.org boards are adorable. It's like he has his own little fan club!

 

[Drakelord]

One thing is to get more to join Siege, an other thing is to keep them.
The crafters and farmers want to sell their items but if the PvP community can't survive, they have to few customers.

I was against VvV artifacts because I did not want to see the damage Faction Artifacts did to Siege however the game is different now and I had changed my opinion about them.
It was not only GIL, who stopped them on Siege, I did my part to it too

As long they are curced and useable for all, I say go for it. I believe suits will be builded of a mix of Imbued pieces, farmed items and VvV items.
I also believe it would give more action in VvV towns. Yes stealthers farming this items running sigels could be a problem but maybe lower the price for mana pike to 500 silver
I don't know how much silver this VvV artifacts should cost, maybe 2 k silver a piece? Some will say expensive but will give a reason to hang out in battle towns.
I still would like to see 2x resources and 1000 basis luckand Tokuno artifacts turned on on Siege.



It was really bad at that time, that's for sure but now PvP is so ded that it can only help, there is no PvP'ers it can hurt.

The problem with gear now is, it's to hard to put together. If PvP'ers could drop their loot in a guildhouse and members easy could grap pieces for a new suit, it would work.

I don't know if the mods are the same as on the normal artifacts, but I do not believe they will be that bad now, but as I don't know the mods on them and how a suit made of only them would look, it are hard for me to say.

From UO guide I found this:
Crimson Cincture, Dex 5, HPI 10, HPG 2 (+5 Dexterity ) -- Can't be imbued so won't hurt crafters
Fey leggins, HPI 6, DCI 20, 50 resist (Better resistances: 15% 11% 10% 4% 22%) -- not that bad, will help with DCI and resist
Heart of the Lion, DCI 15, 50 resist (Better resistances: 20% 15% 15% 15% 15%)--I use Violet Courage, almost same mods. Good for DCI and resist
Tome of Lost Knowledge 15 magery, Int 8, SDI 15, LMC 15 [Mana Regeneration 3 ) -- we have it blessed on Siege so if this are curced, I see no problem
Spirit of the Totem, Str 20, RPD 15, HCI 15 [Better resistances: 20% 10% 10% 10% 10% )
Crystalline Ring, magery 20, focus 20, HPR 5, MR3, SDI 20 (Faster Cast Recovery 3 )
Folded Steel Reading Glasses, Night Sight, Str 8, DCI 15, 60 resist (+10% Defense Chance Increase )
Ornament of the Magician, FC2, FCR 3, LMC 10, LRC 20 (Mana Regeneration 3 )
I know there are more items. Do VvV artifacts have the extra mods faction artifacts had?
Sorry I don't play Prodo so hard for me to know.

What suit would a VvV'er on Siege make, if we got the VvV artifacts?
To build a perfect suit for a template.
What imbued items would you look for on vendors. type of item and mods.
What farmed items would you look for on vendors

To help Siege players to understand and re-evaluate it would be nice if someone can help with some data about this items

One thing about VvV items is they are owner bound, no other person could use them, here a couple snaps of a few VvV items I have on Baja, found on a IDOC, so you drop the person that owns this, you can’t use it and he can just get a new one to replace it. Where you (not a VvV character) have to farm items that are as near or equal to it, taking weeks if not months before you get it. Tjalle has already said that, I am using off the wall suits made in game by crafters on that shard. If those VvV items were allowed on Siege it just another area that will hurt the crafters of Siege. Again another point to NOT bring these items to Siege

 

[FrejaSP]

One thing about VvV items is they are owner bound, no other person could use them, here a couple snaps of a few VvV items I have on Baja, found on a IDOC, so you drop the person that owns this, you can’t use it and he can just get a new one to replace it. Where you (not a VvV character) have to farm items that are as near or equal to it, taking weeks if not months before you get it. Tjalle has already said that, I am using off the wall suits made in game by crafters on that shard. If those VvV items were allowed on Siege it just another area that will hurt the crafters of Siege. Again another point to NOT bring these items to Siege

I agree, we can't have them here as owner only, that will hurt a lot.
They need to be useable of all VvV and non VvV chars and cursed.

 

[petemage]

Thats not true. But no problem. I noticed that I 99 % of the time do not agree with you. We live on different planets, I can deal with that. I played Atlantic and there is no place with more griefers, scammers, cheaters than anywhere else. If there is a place, where your playstyle can be ruined, it is this shard. But as I said: We agree that we dont agree. All is fine.

I doubt you even tried to find people on Atlantic. I can go there every day and randomly ran into nice people - some i know - some i dont. I have seriously no idea where your hate for Atlantic is coming from. Did you only read gen-chat or where did you find all those scammers, griefers and what not you are talking about?

But maybe its that definition of grievers like "I was farming Miasma and another guy showed up "

 

[Drakelord]

I agree, we can't have them here as owner only, that will hurt a lot.
They need to be useable of all VvV and non VvV chars and cursed.

And that another coding nightmare that will be facing the people that have to do just that, if they bring this to Siege. But I agree any items like that would need to be cursed so that it cannot be Siege Blessed.

I still say that they are not needed on Siege.

 

[FrejaSP]

The resist on them would make it easier to build suits also if mixed with imbued.
They are antique so I think a lot would rather use imbued, special if we could get a boost to basic resist on Siege, maybe +15% both for crafted, magic loot and non VvV artifacts

 

[FrejaSP]

And that another coding nightmare that will be facing the people that have to do just that, if they bring this to Siege. But I agree any items like that would need to be cursed so that it cannot be Siege Blessed.

It's not really much of coding, remove the owner only tag and make it curced instead of antique.
.

 

[Tjalle]

I agree, we can't have them here as owner only, that will hurt a lot.
They need to be useable of all VvV and non VvV chars and cursed.

I´ll repost what I posted on Siege:


There will still be a power gap between VvVers and non-VvVers.

Let´s say I kill Joe VvV and takes his artifacts. 5 mins later, after a click on an NPC he has replaced those powerful pieces. Not very Siegey.
Now let´s say he killed me instead. It now takes me 1-2 months of Doom and peerless farming to replace my less powerful versions of those artifacts.

So the VvVers basically have those gear slots "insured" by being able to just click a button and replace the lost ones.
And the non-PvPers have to either kill a usually more experienced PvPer or farm for a long time.

It has never been as balanced as it is now. Everyone has access to the same gear. Be it by crafting or farming.
Re-introduce these artifacts and the clusterduck known as faction artifacts will be repeated.

Artifacts are to be earned, not to be taken for granted.

And yes, every PvPer will claim that they can´t do this and they can´t do that without these items but that´s just bs to try and convince the devs that they need them, which they don´t.
This PvMer has been PvPing on Siege for about 5 years without any faction/VvV artifacts and I do just fine. I win some, I lose some.

And any PvPer claiming that he can´t PvP without these arties should really reconsider his profession in UO.

 

[Uvtha]

I guess thats the main issue with Siege. If the handful of people do not like you, they can (and will try to!) ruin the game for you.

I always hear that, but I don't see how, and I don't recall ever seeing it happen. I remember many times when the community rallied to shun a few people who honestly deserved it, but it didn't really accomplish much. If you have a few friends I don't see how anyone could stop you from doing anything, especially since 90% of the people who would be enacting the supposed care bear stare are non pvpers.

 

[Tjalle]

The Dishonored Tjalle, Legendary Troll.

I think this is a thread demonstrating how serious GIL actually does take HI-5, by 30 people not showing up to VvV Sunday for fear of being looted on a non-insurance shard by the two people who were online

Also, the multiple 'zora' threads on whitecouncil.org boards are adorable. It's like he has his own little fan club!

Feel free to name these "30" people.
And as for GIL not being there, well, I suggest you read the threads you refer to next time.

And don´t be jealous about the Zora thread, there´s one with your name on it too. With some of your own screenshots in it that displays what you use.

 

[Uvtha]

It's not really much of coding, remove the owner only tag and make it curced instead of antique.
.

You assume...

 

[Eärendil]

I doubt you even tried to find people on Atlantic. I can go there every day and randomly ran into nice people - some i know - some i dont. I have seriously no idea where your hate for Atlantic is coming from. Did you only read gen-chat or where did you find all those scammers, griefers and what not you are talking about?

But maybe its that definition of grievers like "I was farming Miasma and another guy showed up "

I am mostly talking about the marketplace Atlantic. I am talking about the behaviour of sellers/buyers on that shard. I traded many items and learned that so many people tried to cheat you, that you even need a broker. Where I come from, there is a gentlemen agreement. Trust is everything. Try to trade with that attitude over there and you are busted. I dont hate Atlantic. I just hate the turbo-capitalist aspect of the market there. So, again, you completely got me wrong. As I said: We both live on different planets. This has nothing to do with the OP.

Err, it has to do with the OP. Things like these will probably not happen to you on Siege or Drachenfels.

P.S.: Example conversation with an Atlantic trader: "sup man! wut? I will give you 5 mil for the crap (lighthouse reward). Stfu. Bought 10 lighthouses for 4 mil last week. FU." And so on and so on and so on. Luna Atlantic is the place where you can see everything that went wrong in this game in the last years.

 

[FrejaSP]

Did you see, I said, useable of all VvV as well as non VvV?

There will still be a power gap between VvVers and non-VvVers.

Let´s say I kill Joe VvV and takes his artifacts. 5 mins later, after a click on an NPC he has replaced those powerful pieces. Not very Siegey.

That depend of the silver price, it take a while to collect 2k silver

Now let´s say he killed me instead. It now takes me 1-2 months of Doom and peerless farming to replace my less powerful versions of those artifacts.

Do you not have a VvV char? Else I'm sure we will see this items cheap on vendors

So the VvVers basically have those gear slots "insured" by being able to just click a button and replace the lost ones.
And the non-PvPers have to either kill a usually more experienced PvPer or farm for a long time.

Than's BS, If I need one of the items for one of my other chars, I'm sure Freja can spare some silver to get them.

It has never been as balanced as it is now. Everyone has access to the same gear. Be it by crafting or farming.
Re-introduce these artifacts and the clusterduck known as faction artifacts will be repeated.

They have, everyone can join VvV, just hide naked in a VvV town, when a battle goes on and he will get 50 silver whhen someone claim an alter or turn in a sigel or he can run around claim alters when noone else are in town.

We see VvV banners on GIL action, so why not this artifacts?
Also a VvV may trade VvV items with imbued items.

Artifacts are to be earned, not to be taken for granted.

Sure it should take some afford, but maybe normal artifacts are to hard to get. With easier access to good gear, we all can afford dying no matter if we are VvV or non VvV.

And yes, every PvPer will claim that they can´t do this and they can´t do that without these items but that´s just bs to try and convince the devs that they need them, which they don´t.
This PvMer has been PvPing on Siege for about 5 years without any faction/VvV artifacts and I do just fine. I win some, I lose some.

It's funny, GIL can't do VvV if they risk to get looted. Do you consider, more GIL would be willing to risk to die if we got this VvV items.
As far I understand, HI5 is not really PK's, I believe they wish to do VvV and be able to find other VvV to play with on Siege.

And any PvPer claiming that he can´t PvP without these arties should really reconsider his profession in UO.

So should any GIL who claim he can't do VvV if he risk to get looted

 

[FrejaSP]

Feel free to name these "30" people.

It was 30 players total doing VvV. Zora asked me how many we use to be at sundays, I said at a really god day, we could be 30 and I can prove that.
Posted of Delores
(Player Event) - VvV was fun!

Hoffs had this.

An excellent event with a total of 30 participants, most of whom were there for the whole run. We were heavily out numbered and taken apart in the first town (Britain), but managed to hold our own generally over the next four. Ru of TnT helped win another town for Vice but Delores and Madison helped secure victory in the other three to give Virtue the overall win. Still, with the huge numbers we were facing, we ned to try and get more people in the field for future events.

Virtue
Becca
Boolean
Brutus
Dyno
Hoffs
Mistress Mayhem
Morgan Ironfist
Richard Garriott
Zardoz

Delores Duende
Madison De Mer

Vice
Baal
Bo
Calaman Baare
Dark Star
Freja
Julia Boin
Luka Melehan
Lyssa
Man o waR
Max Blackoak
Mish o Sha
Pinkerton
Ramerius (sp?)
Ru
Sexy Evildoer
Sprago
Sir Vincent
Tom Blackoak
WhiteWitch
Zalfein

Let me know anyone I missed.

 

[Eärendil]

As far I understand, HI5 is not really PK's, they just want to do VvV and be able to find other VvV to play with on Siege.

Oh really? Why do they attack people farming monsters then - outside the VvV-cities? Freja, I love you. But that´s naive.

 

[Tjalle]

It's funny, GIL can't do VvV if they risk to get looted. Do you consider, more GIL would be willing to risk to die if we got this VvV items.
As far I understand, HI5 is not really PK's, they just want to do VvV and be able to find other VvV to play with on Siege.

Like I said in the other thread. It has nothing to do with being looted. We just choose to not give cheaters the action they want.
We don´t play this game to amuse such people.

GIL had many fun battles with ARR when they were dominating the shard and those were full loot ones.
So again, it´s not the looting, it´s the people.

 

[FrejaSP]

Oh really? Why do they attack people farming monsters then - outside the VvV-cities? Freja, I love you. But that´s naive.

Could it be, there are not enough VvV'ers who want to play with them?

Also I was red for more than 10 years, maybe 15, I did PK (in a RP way), but I did kill newbies and crafters too

 

[Uvtha]

Than's BS, If I need one of the items for one of my other chars, I'm sure Freja can spare some silver to get them.

You may be able to do that, but not everyone would be. I don't think it's a huge issue either way, but you have to accept that most people don't want to be in VvV.

 

[Eärendil]

Could it be, there are not enough VvV'ers who want to play with them?

Also I was red for more than 10 years, maybe 15, I did PK (in a RP way), but I did kill newbies and crafters too

I have no Problem with this. But we should stick to the facts

 

[Uvtha]

Could it be, there are not enough VvV'ers who want to play with them?

...Really? You honestly think they pk JUST because there aren't enough people VvVing? I mean, come on. If they are pking now, they aren't going to stop for any reason. That's just peachy, but let's not pretend.

It's true you might have once been a pk, but how many years did it take for you to soften? 10? How many other pks DIDN'T and either left or just kept pking? People age out of aggression sometimes, but I honestly think most PK's stay that way or move on to different games.

 

[Eärendil]

Keyword is Aggression. Thanks for clarifying this.

 

[Becca]

It was 30 players total doing VvV. Zora asked me how many we use to be at sundays, I said at a really god day, we could be 30 and I can prove that.
Posted of Delores
(Player Event) - VvV was fun!

Hoffs had this.

An excellent event with a total of 30 participants, most of whom were there for the whole run. We were heavily out numbered and taken apart in the first town (Britain), but managed to hold our own generally over the next four. Ru of TnT helped win another town for Vice but Delores and Madison helped secure victory in the other three to give Virtue the overall win. Still, with the huge numbers we were facing, we ned to try and get more people in the field for future events.

Virtue
Becca
Boolean
Brutus
Dyno
Hoffs
Mistress Mayhem
Morgan Ironfist
Richard Garriott
Zardoz

Delores Duende
Madison De Mer

Vice
Baal
Bo
Calaman Baare
Dark Star
Freja
Julia Boin
Luka Melehan
Lyssa
Man o waR
Max Blackoak
Mish o Sha
Pinkerton
Ramerius (sp?)
Ru
Sexy Evildoer
Sprago
Sir Vincent
Tom Blackoak
WhiteWitch
Zalfein

Let me know anyone I missed.

Only eleven of those were Gilfane or allies why didnt the other 20 show up to vvv

 

[FrejaSP]

Only eleven of those were Gilfane or allies why didnt the other 20 show up to vvv

I can only speak for TDO, only me with VvV was on was not on.

 

[FrejaSP]

Lets get back to topic

 

[FrejaSP]

I have no Problem with this. But we should stick to the facts

What facts do you have a problem with ?

 

[Drakelord]

I do believe he meant when you were a red. He had no problem with that.

 

[805connection]

I do believe he meant when you were a red. He had no problem with that.

Oh really? Why do they attack people farming monsters then - outside the VvV-cities? Freja, I love you. But that´s naive.

Because we have no other option... Its not like people are lining up to pvp... We are not asking for VVV items for ourselves, we are asking for the PvP community. This has nothing to do with me. I can farm anything I like in this game, But I know most pvpers flat out dont have the patients nor the skills to do so...
When siege came out most pvpers would fight in Barbed Armor... and if they wanted higher end gear they would wear Invulnerability armor along with a stock of regs potions.. If was that easy to PVP. And myself I had two chars a blue Bard and Red Mage... Fast Forward 15 years. People are still using armor from 1999...


VVV items are entry level pvp gear. and some pieces are best in Slot... All that putting vvv items back is helps bring back the pvpers. More Pvpers More economy more farming more potions, More imbued suits, More luck suits.. More Events. More guilds, More Friends.

 

[kelmo]

*chuckles* You went from demanding to being a philanthropist? There is no good reason to add artifacts you admittedly consider inferior to Siege. None of the things you claim will happen happened last time faction armor was introduced. It damn near turned Siege into a Felucca like deserted waste land.

 

[Uvtha]

Because we have no other option...

uhhh your GM said open on the siege forum that yall will PK anyone who is not "with you". Assuming you are a hi5 person. If so, please, get real. This is siege we're talking about here, It's ok to pk people, you don't have to pretend. Just accept people won't hug you for killing them, nor should they.

 

[Critical Gaming]

(See screenshots)

WHAT A WASTELAND FEL WAS WHEN WE HAD FACTION ARTIFACTS and HERO/EVIL AND SOLD SUITS BACK OMG

IT WAS HORRIBLE. AND LOOK AT THE PRICES ITS LIKE HAVING BLESSED ITEMS LOLOL

(I sold every piece on that vendor, btw.)

Clearly, cursing them, removing the owner tags, and making them available on SP (maybe even at an increased price) would do nothing but good.

 

[Critical Gaming]

And guys, when you are making an argument about them giving people an 'edge', you need to understand two things.

1). The old argument that they "ruined siege" last time (which isn't even true) is INVALID by TODAY'S LOOT AND CRAFTING STANDARDS. You can't use that argument anymore.

2). If you're arguing about an imbalance of opportunities between VVV/NonVVV, you clearly don't comprehend risk vs reward.

Understand that you are rewarded by being able to use wearable arties, novas, mounts, mana spikes, etc... in exchange for being 100% globally flaggable, to which non-VvV are NOT 100% globally flaggable.

THIS MEANS I HAVE TO BE AFRAID TO GO TO THE BANK, WHERE YOU DO NOT.

 

[Critical Gaming]

Also. In my screenshots it's clear that a crafter presence was still necessary. EP rings and runic are all over that vendor.

Speaking of EP rings... whenever we get VvV arties reinstated, imbued EP rings will become very popular again! (Crafters!)

 

[FrejaSP]

Crunch would you accept all to be able to use them? Also non VvV?

 

[FrejaSP]

I believe a lot would join VvV for a while to get them, we did see that with the banners. That would bring more actions in VvV town even when it would cost a few mana pikes to unhide them

 

[Critical Gaming]

Crunch would you accept all to be able to use them? Also non VvV?

If the devs were to release a patch note tomorrow that said SP gets VvV artifacts but they are cursed, don't have an owner tag, and are stripped of their "VvV Item" property, I would be satisfied.

That being said, In my OPINION, remove the "owned by" tag, but don't allow non-VvV to wear them unless they're actually flagged orange (like by flagging a VvV guy), because if you're gonna wear them you have to be at the same risks VvV'ers are.

 

[FrejaSP]

I like the idea of them being orange when using them, that would be fair

 

[Finley Grant]

It looks a bit that the "oh so famous" pks did get bitchslapped on the last Shard they wanted to "make pvp great again" and now traveled to the next place where there is no way that a Crafter or tamer could get himself safe before the evil pks can kill them.

/Sarcasm

 

[Tjalle]

2). If you're arguing about an imbalance of opportunities between VVV/NonVVV, you clearly don't comprehend risk vs reward.

Understand that you are rewarded by being able to use wearable arties, novas, mounts, mana spikes, etc... in exchange for being 100% globally flaggable, to which non-VvV are NOT 100% globally flaggable.

THIS MEANS I HAVE TO BE AFRAID TO GO TO THE BANK, WHERE YOU DO NOT.

The Risk vs. Reward is in the system itself, not the items. They are just bonuses so therefore not needed.
(Sure, the prodo players have gotten used to them and now consider them a right but that still doesn´t mean that they are needed.)

Risk:
- You might get ganked in a guard zone.

Reward:
- You can gank someone in a guard zone.
- You get more targets (as in you can fight in towns).
- You don´t have to worry about murder counts. (Which leads to):
- You can use the town bonuses.
- You can use the virtues.
- You can buy from NPCs.


Why are you trying to make it sound like players join VvV only to avoid PvP and be afraid at the bank? Like they´re sheep?
No, players who join it are looking for the fights, are looking for more targets. They are the wolves.

VvVers want the fights, they want the action. Or else they wouldn´t join it.

 

[Critical Gaming]

Had to edit because I was wrong.

you flag orange but you still get guards message.

 

[Critical Gaming]

When VvV arties get put back in, since it's siege, when Non-VvVer is flagged orange, I think they should have the ability to use VvV items (including warhorses/novas) because they are now following VvV rules until their death.

Like, that would make sense, as opposed to just letting all blues wear them all the time which is what you guys are proposing.

 

[Tjalle]

Like, that would make sense, as opposed to just letting all blues wear them all the time which is what you guys are proposing.

No, we are proposing the devs don´t ruin the balance we have today by putting them in at all.

 

[Critical Gaming]

No, we are proposing the devs don´t ruin the balance we have today by putting them in at all.

I guess I was referring to just Freja and Uvtha with that one.

I'd like to respectfully ask you, what specifically would this ruin, in terms of balance?

Also, did that make sense what I explained above? I'd like to make sure that you understand that you didn't make a point.

 

[Tjalle]

I'd like to respectfully ask you, what specifically would this ruin, in terms of balance?

I have already explained that.

Also, did that make sense what I explained above? I'd like to make sure that you understand that you didn't make a point.

My points are still valid.
Some of your counterpoints are correct, yes. But only in active towns. If it´s not active, you can get guard-wacked if you (a non-VvVer) attack a blue VvVer.

 

[Critical Gaming]

That's not true.

Go test it.

.:.Edit.:.

I look bad now. YOU ARE RIGHT. It gives guard message AND flags you orange to all other VvV.

Non-VVV still can't get murder counts from it though. So you're still at a disadvantage being in VvV.

*feels safer at luna bank now*

 

[Tjalle]

That's not true.

Go test it.

.:.Edit.:.

I look bad now. YOU ARE RIGHT. It gives guard message AND flags you orange to all other VvV.

Non-VVV still can't get murder counts from it though. So you're still at a disadvantage being in VvV.

*feels safer at luna bank now*

Quoting for safety keeping heh.

 

[Critical Gaming]

Yeah definitely. On other shards, the blues flag you all the time and just go orange, but it's only Yew gate so there's a very small portion of guard zone.

You still won't go red killing blue VvV's though. That's a luxury VvV doesn't have vs regular blues.

 

[Feanaro]

I have already explained that.



My points are still valid.
Some of your counterpoints are correct, yes. But only in active towns. If it´s not active, you can get guard-wacked if you (a non-VvVer) attack a blue VvVer.

Your trying to make points about something you know nothing about. You dont participate in VvV. You dont PvP.


The argument that it creates an imbalance between a Red or blue VvVer vs a PvMer is just stupid. I basically have the exact same mods on the suit I am wearing right now, just as if I was wearing the artifacts. The imbalance is already there. ( If they are not geared like me ) The difference is, with the artifacts it is easier for me to replace the suits. Which I SHOULD get because I AM participating in the PvP system that actually promotes PVP here. Before you farmed monsters for silver where now you must claim towns. This is suppose to be the shard with real risk. Where is my reward?

This shard is unique enough with being a fel ruleset everywhere and no insurance. We had the artifacts before in factions, and there was way more pvp to be had by all. Im also convinced that there was no one that actually pvped on Siege in that focus group that had them removed to fit their own playstyle.

Put the artifacts USEABLE BY ALL back onto Siege at least on a trial basis, and see what happens. Then make a new focus group to discuss. ( NoN VvVers wearing artifacts will be flagged orange until death)
@Kyronix can we please get a response on this?

 

[Uvtha]

I guess I was referring to just Freja and Uvtha with that one.

I'd like to respectfully ask you, what specifically would this ruin, in terms of balance?

Also, did that make sense what I explained above? I'd like to make sure that you understand that you didn't make a point.

I don't really think they are, I am seemingly one of the only non pvpers in favor of them (since there will be no better alternative offered by devs) after all, so it would directly impact me as a potential pk target.

I care more on a philosophical level. I hate artificial barriers, and in this case I really don't see the functional need for it. I feel like if you get killed by some noob pvmer you deserve to lose your ****, and they deserves to be able to use it, that's all. Feels more siege to me. *shrug*

 

[805connection]

The Risk vs. Reward is in the system itself, not the items. They are just bonuses so therefore not needed.
(Sure, the prodo players have gotten used to them and now consider them a right but that still doesn´t mean that they are needed.)

Risk:
- You might get ganked in a guard zone.

Reward:
- You can gank someone in a guard zone.
- You get more targets (as in you can fight in towns).
- You don´t have to worry about murder counts. (Which leads to):
- You can use the town bonuses.
- You can use the virtues.
- You can buy from NPCs.


Why are you trying to make it sound like players join VvV only to avoid PvP and be afraid at the bank? Like they´re sheep?
No, players who join it are looking for the fights, are looking for more targets. They are the wolves.

VvVers want the fights, they want the action. Or else they wouldn´t join it.

VvVers are PvPers... PvPers historically do not farm or PVM because they.... you guessed it PvP. Once Siege went to AOS a lot of people quit the game because they could not use gm armor and regs and be competitive As they were prior.. they had trouble keeping up with casting and everytime they died they had to find a new casting set of jewls.

So that is when the first wave of pvp died.

I'm not sure making free arties for everyone who kills vvv is even the issue, i feel if you do manage to kill a person in VVV then you should be able to turn in his arties for soulstones deco or more vvv points.. I also feel you should be able to buy soulstones with VVV points...

Do you see we are trying to incentives pvp here that is the Goal here...

Ornament if the Magi, 2/3 20 lrc 10 lmc 15 energy 3 mr,

I looked a bracelet last night with 1/3 25 lrc 25 ep 15 sdi 4 MR.. from one T map... and i have a ring withouth fc on it also like this.. Plus the town buff. and there is no reason for me to ever put on the orny again.

I'm gonna take a poll to see how many people want vvv items back on siege.

 

[Uvtha]

Do you see we are trying to incentives pvp here that is the Goal here...

Are they to incentivize pvping or to help pvpers gear? On one hand you go on and on about bow VvV arties suck, on the other you give them as an example of an incentive to joining VvV, and I infer, allowing non VvVers to potentially use them would cause fewer people to join VvV? if peeps join JUST for arties, they are gonna be pvming with them not pvping, so the net pvp action is the same, except people have even easier access to the items than they would if the items were simply cursed/non tagged.

If they are to help gear, it doesn't matter who can use them, does it? If it's a lure to get people into VvV/pvp it won't work.

As for SS for VvV gear... are you kidding? Not only would that be a very abusable system, SS are not only a vet reward, but also the top seller in the item shop. 0% chance they would consider such an idea..

I'm gonna take a poll to see how many people want vvv items back on siege.

lol, why?? Have these two threads that were posted in by people would would vote not give you a clear enough view? Pvmer (the majority) = no. Pvper (the minority) = yes. More or less.