GM Tracking & GM Detect Hidden

[PwnySlaystation]

Please can these skills get a buff?

Like, for tracking when picking human, at GM it should pick all PLAYERS (non npc) so you dont have to specify if people are in forms. You get such a small use for your 100 skill points.

Detect doesn't work often enough either, its more powerful to just be an Elf and wander around! Maybe make the skill cooldown much quicker?

 

[kelmo]

Why?

 

[Cady]

Why?

Because stealthing is OP. You can successfully track a stealther, meteor swarm them multiple times and not reveal them. Seriously, how can someone take a 30+ hp spell and not get revealed?

And have you ever tried Detect Hidden on a human char? It's crap, it's completely useless. You track them, MAYBE, with your GM tracking, get right up on their tracking arrow, target it with Detect Hidden aaaaaaand... Nothing. Then you have to wait what seems like an eternity for another chance at using it again. I've tried it, it's not worth it. You dedicate 200 skills points to it on a mage, and you're left with a mage with limited defense and offense, and it can't even reveal a damn stealther who's location you're well aware of.

Stealthing is cool, but part of being a stealther should be being stealthy... If it's just obvious to everyone exactly where you are then you should be reveal able somehow. Currently, 80+% of the time it's impossible to reveal them.

 

[Poo]

did they change something?
cause i use to use detect and tracking all the time and i never missed revealing people.

 

[Giggles]

did they change something?
cause i use to use detect and tracking all the time and i never missed revealing people.

I think he means... once you are GM tracking, you shouldn't have to search for monsters if someone is in bake kitsune form. They should show under "Humans" regardless of what form they are in.

I kinda have mixed feelings about this one. Granted you should have some extra perks for being 100 in tracking of all skills. And I defiantly get annoyed scanning monsters, animal, and humans trying to find someone. But on the flip side when I am on a stealther, its fun switching forms making it more difficult for people to track me. But yeah, as it stands now its pretty pointless to GM tracking, I find people with no problem having only 20 passive human tracking, while cycling through all the choices of what form they could be in.

 

[OREOGL]

did they change something?
cause i use to use detect and tracking all the time and i never missed revealing people.

I use both and if you are trying to reveal someone with hiding and stealth it takes a few tries even targeting exactly where they are hidden.

 

[Feanaro]

My biggest problem with detect hidden is that when you reveal them via detect they can instantly hide again. I think it should start the wait for the skill timer, if you get revealed. Especially for Siege where every template runs stealth, and with no passive detect it is almost impossible to die with hide/stealth.

 

[Uvtha]

My biggest problem with detect hidden is that when you reveal them via detect they can instantly hide again. I think it should start the wait for the skill timer, if you get revealed. Especially for Siege where every template runs stealth, and with no passive detect it is almost impossible to die with hide/stealth.

Detect should absolutely put some kind of timer on hiding. I honestly think that it's stupid that you can just hide directly in the line of sight of anyone, but I know that won't ever change.

 

[Feanaro]

Detect should absolutely put some kind of timer on hiding. I honestly think that it's stupid that you can just hide directly in the line of sight of anyone, but I know that won't ever change.

If you reveal them with detect hidden they can instantly hide again as long as you arent flagged on them. I just think its bogus that you can do that. If detected you should not be able to hide instantly or smoke bomb right away. I have also played a death striker and I still think its crap, and yea I dont think you should be able to hide right in front of someone that is a hostile flagged or not especially if they have gm detect.

 

[Uvtha]

If you reveal them with detect hidden they can instantly hide again as long as you arent flagged on them. I just think its bogus that you can do that. If detected you should not be able to hide instantly or smoke bomb right away. I have also played a death striker and I still think its crap, and yea I dont think you should be able to hide right in front of someone that is a hostile flagged or not especially if they have gm detect.

I know, I agree. I'm a wuss bag pvmer, who ran a stealth tamer for like 10 years, and I always thought it was stupid that I only died in like 1 of 100 attempts, because I just stealthed away, and no one could keep me revealed for long.

 

[kelmo]

Are stealthers really a factor? Are they killing it in PvP? Really?

 

[drcossack]

Are stealthers really a factor? Are they killing it in PvP? Really?

That isn't the issue. If they stealth, there is literally NOTHING you can do to kill them in an open field situation, unless they've crashed. AoE won't reveal them even if you know where they are, Detect likely won't do it (and definitely won't if using JOAT), and even IF detect/tracking works, you have to cripple your offense JUST to be able to potentially counter stealther templates. How is that NOT unbalanced?

 

[PwnySlaystation]

@Mesanna @Kyronix

Could we get an answer?

 

[Kyronix]

@Mesanna @Kyronix

Could we get an answer?

It's something we can look at for the future, but it's not high on the priority list as of now.

 

[PwnySlaystation]

It's something we can look at for the future, but it's not high on the priority list as of now.

Thanks for your reply. I understand its not a high priority, but i can't imagine changing the success chance on detect is a huge job the tracking change maybe a little longer, bit of luck maybe in a publish or twos time?

Thanks again

 

[Merus]

It's actually kinda funny reading some of the responses from Devs. You really have to wonder...

The functionality to delay the hide after a reveal already exists ingame (ie get revealed in a beast suit and try to insta-hide) How hard can it really be to take existing functionality and apply a new trigger??

Yes sir we have ice cream that we serve in bowls Yes sir, we have those cones over there.

Hmm. You want ice cream on a cone? We'll have to see about that, but it's not really a priority right now.

 

[Cady]

Yea, but Merus, you ever have one of those jobs where you get to sit around most of the day and play on your phone? You know those types of bosses who are so clueless they have to ask their low level employees how long a task will take, and tiny jobs somehow turn into all day ventures... of mostly dicking around. That's what I imagine being a UO developer is like. 'Aye aye aye sir, change the percent chance on success of a skill? Eeehhhhhh, I'll see...,' then ten minutes before it's time to go home, he does a Ctrl+F and changes the percent value in about a minute and a half. Wipes his brow then goes to tell his boss how much of a task it was and how it's delayed other pressing tasks.

Hey, Anyone have any clue how the heck Mana Spikes are supposed to work?

• Mana Spike
  • The mana spike can be deployed during a battle.
  • The mana spike requires 50 mana and will consume all of the user’s mana.
  • The mana spike will reveal all hidden players inside the battle region & do energy damage.
  • Players will not be able to hide while under the effects of the mana spike.
  • Mana spikes can only be used once every 5 minutes.

Can I get an idea of what "Players will not be able to hide while under the effects of the mana spike" means? Because I use one to try and catch a stealther, run around a little to find the sucker... Then he hides right in front of me before I can even grab his bar or get him as 'current target'. WTF? I woulda figured that meant peeps can't hide while 'the ground is charged', but I figured wrong. Mana Spikes seem to be as impotent as Detect Hidden or trying to damage players out of stealth.

 

[kelmo]

I want my stealth and sneakiness to work. My points count too.

 

[kelmo]

Anyone PKed by a stealther should be sad.

 

[Cady]

I want my stealth and sneakiness to work. My points count too.

Then be stealthy and sneaky, walking around and evading other players, trying to plan your movements ahead of other's is a skill too. But you get yourself discovered... there should be some way to reveal you, and do it for long enough to at least pull and target your healthbar, do you really think that's unreasonable?

Anyone PKed by a stealther should be sad.

Ninja's not a viable template anymore? Lots of people play them.

 

[drcossack]

Then be stealthy and sneaky, walking around and evading other players, trying to plan your movements ahead of other's is a skill too. But you get yourself discovered... there should be some way to reveal you, and do it for long enough to at least pull and target your healthbar, do you really think that's unreasonable?

He plays Siege, so yes.

Anyone PKed by a stealther should be sad.

I've died to stealthers. Don't care, since it's usually a last-second popshot. If they were capable of actually playing, they wouldn't need to do that.

 

[Feanaro]

Anyone PKed by a stealther should be sad.

I could throw on my deathstriker template and kill you in 30 seconds or less, just stay on my screen. The problem here is hide/stealth is way over powered and even when I devote 200 skill points to counter stealthers they still have the advantage by hiding and smoke bombing immediately after being revealed. To say thats balanced is just plain dumb.

 

[Feanaro]

He plays Siege, so yes.

LOL, yes if you try to mess with peoples hide/stealth ability on Siege there would be oceans of salty tears. Without hide/stealth Siege would be more dead than any shard right now.

 

[Martell]

Anyone PKed by a stealther should be sad.

I've seen some pretty effective holy fisters and aclhemy/ds stealthers. Neither of these templates should be that great, since they giving up healing for offense, but because hiding/stealth, they just constantly smokebomb and stealth away whenever redlined and then just comeback once they've recharged mana.

With stealth/detect hidden currently, you can basically just rinse and repeat this strategy as a stealther and wait for the RNG to fall in your favor. The only way you'll be killed is via a para gank and even then, you've got a pretty good chance of getting away.

I agree with the folks saying that GM detect hidden should do much more and stealth/hiding should get a cool down.

 

[Ru TnT]

Ahh, it's that time of year again already?

Both hiding/stealth and tracking/detect are fine as they are. If tracking/detect are not working for you, the problem is the player, not the skill.

 

[drcossack]

Ahh, it's that time of year again already?

Both hiding/stealth and tracking/detect are fine as they are. If tracking/detect are not working for you, the problem is the player, not the skill.

But several players are saying they aren't, and that's at max skill. God forbid we fix your precious stealther so that you actually have to fight someone instead of staying hidden 24/7.

 

[Ru TnT]

But several players are saying they aren't, and that's at max skill. God forbid we fix your precious stealther so that you actually have to fight someone instead of staying hidden 24/7.

I'm not posting here as a stealther, I'm here as a tracker/detector. I've had those skills on my character for years, and I have no issues with them. If others are having trouble, they probably just need some practice, and to figure out what else can help while hunting stealthers.

 

[drcossack]

I'm not posting here as a stealther, I'm here as a tracker/detector. I've had those skills on my character for years, and I have no issues with them. If others are having trouble, they probably just need some practice, and to figure out what else can help while hunting stealthers.

Ok then. You reveal them with detect, they have NO TIMER on their smoke bomb, so they're hidden again and long gone by the time you're able to reveal them again. So we're back on the unbalanced bus ride.

 

[PwnySlaystation]

Ru TNT clearly never pvped a day in their life.

 

[Feanaro]

Sorry Ru, but the question of should someone be able to hide instantly after being revealed by someone with gm detect should not be debatable. Thats bogus and you know it. At the very least it should be on cool down with the detect hidden skill.

 

[Ru TnT]

Sorry Ru, but the question of should someone be able to hide instantly after being revealed by someone with gm detect should not be debatable. Thats bogus and you know it. At the very least it should be on cool down with the detect hidden skill.

I disagree, detect is already borderline OP if the player knows what they are doing. I do understand that others have trouble with it, and I know it's easier for them to come here looking for buffs, than it is learning how to play.

Maybe they could add a detect mastery, which adds a slight delay to your target's smoke bombs, just keep the base skill the same.

 

[drcossack]

I disagree, detect is already borderline OP if the player knows what they are doing. I do understand that others have trouble with it, and I know it's easier for them to come here looking for buffs, than it is learning how to play.

Maybe they could add a detect mastery, which adds a slight delay to your target's smoke bombs, just keep the base skill the same.

Once again: there is a cooldown on using detect, a point that you clearly ignored because it completely shuts your nonsense argument down. IF you reveal the person, they'll immediately hide again and you won't be able to find them unless they're on tracking...which you likely won't even be able to do in the first place because most templates can't fit either skill, and instead have to rely on JOAT. As I'm sure you're already aware, your success chance of tracking a hidden player with JOAT is abysmally low, to the point that it's better not to even bother.

Either add a timer on going back into hiding once revealed, or make it easier to reveal them if they take a large amount of damage from AoE. I'd be fine with either.

 

[Thoronnar]

Once you are revealed, as a stealther, you have few chances of survival if you stay and fight, but you still have time to escape. I am talking for the average stealther. Throwing a smoke bomb right after you've been revealed can be a little lame, and I rarely do it. I wouldn't mind staying and fighting for a bit if I can, and if I can't I can always run and then smoke bomb + stealth jump; escape plan would be more fun. I kind of agree it is unbalanced.

However, I haven't played in months.... I still have my account, but I really don't like what's happening to UO lately, so everytime I log in to play, I get depressed by the state of the game and leave.

 

[Martell]

Ahh, it's that time of year again already?

Both hiding/stealth and tracking/detect are fine as they are. If tracking/detect are not working for you, the problem is the player, not the skill.

Why do people that don't pvp constantly inject themselves into pvp conversations. Neither you or Kelmo clearly have any idea what templates are being run these days.

Yes, it's a new year, a lot changes in the game over the course of a year...skills should change to match the times.

The ability to make purely offensive templates has sky rocketed this year due to new masteries, new potions, and an abundance of insane armor. Templates like alchemy/DSer's/stealthers and Holy Fist/Alchemy/Stealthers are now viable because folks don't need any healing or defensive skills, you can just go in for a huge combo and if you miss, you just chain hiding/stealth, wait for your suit/potion to restore hp, and then rinse and repeat until you get the proper RNG and you get your Holy fist, splinter, and nova combo off.

Currently, you need a group of people to trap and kill any semi-decent stealther in the field. However, there's a simple fix to leveling the playing field: put a timer on hiding/stealth after a reveal, or boost detect hidden, or have area spells actually reveal stuff.

The game has changed in the course of a year, there are simple fixes to keep the game balanced, why do you have a problem with this?

 

[Ru TnT]

Once again: there is a cooldown on using detect, a point that you clearly ignored because it completely shuts your nonsense argument down. IF you reveal the person, they'll immediately hide again and you won't be able to find them unless they're on tracking...which you likely won't even be able to do in the first place because most templates can't fit either skill, and instead have to rely on JOAT. As I'm sure you're already aware, your success chance of tracking a hidden player with JOAT is abysmally low, to the point that it's better not to even bother.

I ignored it because I don't consider it to be an issue. I agree about the JoATs, hunting stealthers without both at GM can be tough. I've tried a lot of different skill levels over the past 11 years, I haven't been happy with anything less than GM.

Ru TNT clearly never pvped a day in their life.

Why do people that don't pvp constantly inject themselves into pvp conversations.

What makes you think that I don't PvP?

Unlike most of the people in this thread, I'm here because I do know what I am talking about.

The ability to make purely offensive templates has sky rocketed this year due to new masteries, new potions, and an abundance of insane armor. Templates like alchemy/DSer's/stealthers and Holy Fist/Alchemy/Stealthers are now viable because folks don't need any healing or defensive skills, you can just go in for a huge combo and if you miss, you just chain hiding/stealth, wait for your suit/potion to restore hp, and then rinse and repeat until you get the proper RNG and you get your Holy fist, splinter, and nova combo off.

When you explain it like that, I can totally see why your issue is with just hide/stealth.

The game has changed in the course of a year, there are simple fixes to keep the game balanced, why do you have a problem with this?

My problem is with you trying to get the devs to waste time fixing things that are not broken. Tracking/Detect and Hide/Stealth are balanced, . If you want a simple fix, get better.

 

[Feanaro]

I ignored it because I don't consider it to be an issue.

ROFL, I give up.

 

[drcossack]

ROFL, I give up.

 

[Martell]

Tracking/Detect and Hide/Stealth are balanced.

How are they balanced?? One group of skills (hide/stealth) can be spammed endlessly with 100% success rate, one group can't be used repeatedly (tracking/detect) and doesn't have a 100% success rate when at an equivalent skill level.

What makes you think that I don't PvP?

You play in TNT. That speaks volumes to your pvp skills.

If you want a simple fix, get better.

Want to set up a fight for gold? I'll let you use a stealther too.

 

[Martell]

When you explain it like that, I can totally see why your issue is with just hide/stealth.

Missed this post. Hide/stealth is at the very root of the problem. These templates are based on the strategy of hiding as soon as the RNG doesn't go in their favor....it's stupid and the only way to kill the person is to get a group or lure them into an area where you can trap them (which any experienced stealther won't fall for).

Yeah, I think a majority of the new items and masteries themselves are stupid, but like you "I don't want to waste the Dev's time," so rather than have them spend hours tweaking dumb items/abilities, why don't they just tweak a single skill/item?? Remove the timer on Detect, put in a timer on hide/smokebombs, improve tracking.

 

[kelmo]

We do not even play the same game. We Siege players just hope nothing changes for us. The templates you speak of are not even workable on Siege. I am doing the best I can and the second I die I am out 15 million gold. That is pretty considerable on Siege.

If I choose not to die and be looted... That is a win in my book.

 

[drcossack]

We do not even play the same game. We Siege players just hope nothing changes for us. The templates you speak of are not even workable on Siege. I am doing the best I can and the second I die I am out 15 million gold. That is pretty considerable on Siege.

If I choose not to die and be looted... That is a win in my book.

And why should the "pvp" on Siege determine how it works on every other shard, when it is clearly universally broken? I'm not even taking into account all of the things that can be done with it, template-wise. The mechanics of hiding/stealth, especially against detect/tracking, are the problem. Just because it's "not a problem" on Siege, where everyone just stays hidden all day instead of actually pvp'ing, means nothing.

 

[Feanaro]

We do not even play the same game.

If I choose not to die and be looted... That is a win in my book.

I play the same shard as you. Agreed those templates cannot be ran on Siege, but this is not about one shard or any specific stealthing template. I understand that your to scared to die on a 20 year old wizard game, I get that. This is about a clearly broken game mechanic. Again, being able to immediately hide after being revealed by GM detect is complete garbage no matter what shard your on. If you cant see that then your clearly benefiting from it and dont want it changed. I have ran a stealther and really enjoyed the fact that I could take advantage of it, all the while knowing that it is complete ********. This is one tiny aspect of the game that shouldnt need a discussion. It is clearly broken.

 

[Ru TnT]

ROFL, I give up.

Hang in there, it's not too bad, once you understand how things work.

 

[Ru TnT]

You play in TNT. That speaks volumes to your pvp skills.

Yet I'm the one that isn't afraid of the big bad stealther?

Want to set up a fight for gold? I'll let you use a stealther too.

And you'll be running a tracker/revealer? Otherwise, what's the point?

 

[Ru TnT]

I have ran a stealther and really enjoyed the fact that I could take advantage of it, all the while knowing that it is complete ********. This is one tiny aspect of the game that shouldnt need a discussion. It is clearly broken.

While you were running a stealther, how often did you encounter an enemy with tracking/detect?

 

[Ru TnT]

The mechanics of hiding/stealth, especially against detect/tracking, are the problem. Just because it's "not a problem" on Siege, where everyone just stays hidden all day instead of actually pvp'ing, means nothing.

The problem seems to be that you all want detect/tracking to trump the stealther entire template. It cannot do that, but it can negate the hide/stealth. If you can capitalize on the opportunities those skills give you, thats on you, not the skills.

How often do you play Siege? I see people all the time, visible and stealthed, we don't just banksit in Luna. Try leaving the guard zone some time.

 

[drcossack]

The problem seems to be that you all want detect/tracking to trump the stealther entire template. It cannot do that, but it can negate the hide/stealth. If you can capitalize on the opportunities those skills give you, thats on you, not the skills.

How often do you play Siege? I see people all the time, visible and stealthed, we don't just banksit in Luna. Try leaving the guard zone some time.

This is not about Siege, nor are we asking for Detect/Tracking to completely neuter stealth templates. We are talking about a broken mechanic that gives the user the ability to instantly hide again, coupled with the likely failure to even reveal/track them in the first place. If you DO manage to reveal them, they'll be hidden again and long gone before you can use detect hidden again.

When you want to listen to reason and/or present LOGICAL counter-arguments as to why stealth's lack of delay on re-hiding isn't broken, other than "This is how things are on Siege", feel free to let us know. Until then, please stop wasting our time with your nonsense.

 

[Feanaro]

While you were running a stealther, how often did you encounter an enemy with tracking/detect?

Many times PVPing in factions and IDOCs on Siege they couldnt keep me revealed long enough to do any damage, even if I was outnumbered. Any more useless points you want to try and make for your bogus argument?

Hang in there, it's not too bad, once you understand how things work.

What dont I understand? That you refuse to acknowledge something thats a crystal clear imbalance issue? Its simple it would not even hardly effect you. Only against detectors would this even remotly change your playstyle of an annoying white tiger parry thief.

 

[Ru TnT]

What dont I understand? That you refuse to acknowledge something thats a crystal clear imbalance issue? Its simple it would not even hardly effect you. Only against detectors would this even remotly change your playstyle of an annoying white tiger parry thief.

My thief hasn't had hiding or stealth on for a very long time.

Many times PVPing in factions and IDOCs on Siege they couldnt keep me revealed long enough to do any damage, even if I was outnumbered. Any more useless points you want to try and make for your bogus argument?

When you want to listen to reason and/or present LOGICAL counter-arguments as to why stealth's lack of delay on re-hiding isn't broken, other than "This is how things are on Siege", feel free to let us know. Until then, please stop wasting our time with your nonsense.

Bogus? Nonsense? Logical?


Hide/stealth/tracking/detect(not passive) are the same on prodo and Siege.
As a tracker/detector, I can and do deal with stealthers effectively.
I have played with and against other effective tracker/detectors.
I am not the best pvper.
I think that better players than me, should play better than me.

Is there a flaw there somewhere? If not, would it be safe to assume that, if I can do it, others should be able to do it?

 

[Lord Arm]

in my opinion its fine the way it is. it would be a waste of devs time to change and may cause an imbalance. people are already using multi chars to find and reveal already, lame.