GM Tracking & GM Detect Hidden

[drcossack]

in my opinion its fine the way it is. it would be a waste of devs time to change and may cause an imbalance. people are already using multi chars to find and reveal already, lame.

They do? It's actually impossible to play 2 chars at once when you want to pvp/do something pvp-related on both of them. I've done a lot of fighting on LS and never once seen a char dedicated solely to tracking & detect hidden. Ditto with the pvp on Atlantic, although I haven't spent as much time there.

But please, tell me again how stealth having no cooldown against detect hidden revealing a stealther (when detect AND tracking both have one) is fair. I will even make a stealther on the shard of your choice so you can try to reveal and track me. Whether you succeed or fail, I will be hidden again and long gone by the time your detect cooldown is up.

 

[Lord Arm]

They do? It's actually impossible to play 2 chars at once when you want to pvp/do something pvp-related on both of them. I've done a lot of fighting on LS and never once seen a char dedicated solely to tracking & detect hidden. Ditto with the pvp on Atlantic, although I haven't spent as much time there.

But please, tell me again how stealth having no cooldown against detect hidden revealing a stealther (when detect AND tracking both have one) is fair. I will even make a stealther on the shard of your choice so you can try to reveal and track me. Whether you succeed or fail, I will be hidden again and long gone by the time your detect cooldown is up.

people use an extra char all the time to track and detect hidden chars, mostly at idocs but at champs too. I feel it is balanced right now and there is no need for changes. use better tactics is all, conflags, meterorstorm, earthquake, humans can track at 0 tracking. I just don't see a big problem with this, just my opinion so relax.

 

[Ru TnT]

never once seen a char dedicated solely to tracking & detect hidden.

Maybe that is part of the problem. If you're having that much trouble with stealthers, get someone to play a real tracker/detector. Trying to rely on one skill or the other, or JoATs won't help much.

Whether you succeed or fail, I will be hidden again and long gone by the time your detect cooldown is up.

So you'd choose to flee, instead of hanging out while a revealer is in the area?

I will even make a stealther on the shard of your choice so you can try to reveal and track me.

Come play hide and seek with me.

 

[drcossack]

Maybe that is part of the problem. If you're having that much trouble with stealthers, get someone to play a real tracker/detector. Trying to rely on one skill or the other, or JoATs won't help much.

My main pvp template is a parry mage. A single stealther CANNOT kill me. Nor can I kill them, since they're impossible to reveal even with AoE. If they do come out of hiding, that's barely enough time for me to get them on last target - I'm not incapable of doing it, but that's how fast they'll pop back into hiding. Even if I do manage to get them on last target, it's meaningless, because there's nothing I can do about it once they're hidden. AoE spells like Earthquake, Meteor Swarm, and Chain Lightning will do damage, but EQ doesn't tell me exactly where they are since it has a wide range. Poison fields have the same problem - in a wide open area (i.e. a vvv town), I know they're on my screen since they step into the field, but I have no clue which one they stepped in.

So you'd choose to flee, instead of hanging out while a revealer is in the area?.

Just to prove that Tracking & Detect Hidden aren't all they're cracked up to be? Yes, I would. Otherwise, I'd stay and fight.

Come play hide and seek with me.

I'm not interested in chasing after/looking for someone who has no interest in fighting.

 

[Ru TnT]

I'm not interested in chasing after/looking for someone who has no interest in fighting.

If you make a stealther on Siege, you won't have to look for me, I'll be the one guarding your corpse while you rez.

 

[kelmo]

While you were running a stealther, how often did you encounter an enemy with tracking/detect?

I have a few times... Ru knows what he is talking about.

 

[Martell]

people use an extra char all the time to track and detect hidden chars, mostly at idocs but at champs too. .

WTF are you talking about no they don't. IDOCS, maybe, I don't do them. Champs, no one does this.

use better tactics is all, conflags, meterorstorm, earthquake, humans can track at 0 tracking. I just don't see a big problem with this, just my opinion so relax.

Conflags - Not effective at all in the field. stealther just walks out of them and re-hides.
Meteor/EQ - You usually only see the damage taken as it doesn't always reveal and if it does, they can just re-hide. This also only applies to mages.
JOAT Tracking - essentially useless in the field. Rarely works and takes forever to pull up.

It's not that this is a HUGE problem, but it's a pretty clear imbalance in the game and one that's getting abused with increasing frequency. I don't get all the resistance though, there's a clear and easy fix here, so why are folks harping on this? Haven't the Devs already said that they're dedicating the rest of the year to bug fixes and improving current mechanics and this is such a straightforward fix that I can't see how this would take away from their precious time.

 

[Martell]

If you're having that much trouble with stealthers, get someone to play a real tracker/detector.

No one is having a HUGE problem with getting wtfpwnd by stealthers. The point is: here's a clear imbalance between the skills, there's a simple fix to evening out the skills, so why not fix it???

Stealthers aren't pwning the poop out of all other templates but as you just said, the only way to kill a stealther is to have a group....that shouldn't be the case. Pretty clear and simple.

 

[drcossack]

If you make a stealther on Siege, you won't have to look for me, I'll be the one guarding your corpse while you rez.

LOL. If I were playing a dexer template, you're probably right. But I never said what kind of stealther I'd use

 

[kelmo]

What type would you use?

 

[Ru TnT]

the only way to kill a stealther is to have a group....that shouldn't be the case. Pretty clear and simple.

That was just my suggestion for anyone having trouble with them. It just depends on what else they are running. I've killed a alot stealthers solo(and in groups,) but I've also had many get away. The ones that get away almost always do so by running away visibly. In both cases I'd consider tracking/detect to be doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing, cancelling out the opponent's stealth. With a decent tracker/detector, the enemy should have three options. Die, fight, or flee.

In your opinion, every template should be able to kill every other template? 1v1 should always be a fair and equal fight between different templates?

 

[Ru TnT]

LOL. If I were playing a dexer template, you're probably right. But I never said what kind of stealther I'd use

Any kind is okay with me. I have an addiction to chasing stealthers and hopping random gates. Whenever I see them, I just have to jump on them.

 

[Feanaro]

Any proposed change to hide/stealth to be revealed easier your going to find the people from Siege most vocal crying about it. The majority of the people there have it on every template.

 

[drcossack]

Any proposed change to hide/stealth to be revealed easier your going to find the people from Siege most vocal crying about it. The majority of the people there have it on every template.

Which is EXACTLY what happened. Kelmo was the first to complain about it.

Any kind is okay with me. I have an addiction to chasing stealthers and hopping random gates. Whenever I see them, I just have to jump on them.

I do all my pvp on a mage. Good luck, you're going to need it - I wouldn't need more than one skill at 120.

 

[kelmo]

No one that really plays Siege is crying about the rules.

 

[Tjalle]

Random poster:
- Fix cheating in the game.

PvPers:
*crickets*


Random poster:
- Hey look! That guy over there has hiding.

PvPers:
- WTF?! Hiding!?
- DEVS!! FIX!!
- I´ll bring the torches and pitchforks, guys.
- Nerf it!!! Stealthers are the most OP templates evah.
- The sky is falling!!
- HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KILL HIM??
- @Dev1 @Dev2 @Dev3 ... @Dev18


They never stop amusing me.

Here´s my take on it.
I liked the OP's suggestion that if you have GM Tracking you only have to click the Players option to see players even if they are in animal form and such.
No to decreasing the detect timer and that´s coming from someone who plays both sides of that fence.
No to changing how the re-hiding works.

If Ru says it´s balanced then I believe him. This just sounds like some people want the easy button to make their already strong templates stronger.
And of course all of this is just my opinion...

 

[drcossack]

Here´s my take on it.
I liked the OP's suggestion that if you have GM Tracking you only have to click the Players option to see players even if they are in animal form and such.
No to decreasing the detect timer and that´s coming from someone who plays both sides of that fence.
No to changing how the re-hiding works.

If Ru says it´s balanced then I believe him. This just sounds like some people want the easy button to make their already strong templates stronger.
And of course all of this is just my opinion...

But it's NOT balanced, especially compared to the detect/tracking cooldowns, which has been stated multiple times. What is so hard to understand about that? Yes, I know everyone *****ing about it getting changed plays on Siege, but it's a slight rebalance. Other than it changing every single one of your precious stealthers so that you'd actually have to do something other than stay hidden all day, why is it such an issue?

But to modify the start of your post:

- @PwnySlaystation and other people who actually pvp:
- Present logical arguments as to why Stealthing is unbalanced: the cooldowns on Tracking/Detect Hidden (which are hard to fit on templates without crippling either your offense, defense, or more likely, both), which likely won't even work in the first place, and nothing else is capable of revealing someone that's hidden if they have skill invested.

Siege players (Except Uvtha):
- DON'T FIX OUR PRECIOUS STEALTHING ABILITY! We won't be able to hide all day and claim there's pvp on our dead joke of a shard!

Can you, Kelmo, or Ru Give me ONE reason why there shouldn't be a delay on re-hiding if you get revealed for any reason, even if the skill timer has already passed? Or can you tell me why AoE spells that do large amounts of damage do not reveal the person that gets hit by them?

 

[Ru TnT]

Can you, Kelmo, or Ru Give me ONE reason why there shouldn't be a delay on re-hiding if you get revealed for any reason, even if the skill timer has already passed?

Are you saying that a stealther can hide, be revealed a second later, and smokebomb right away to hide again?

Or can you tell me why AoE spells that do large amounts of damage do not reveal the person that gets hit by them?

That I do not know, but I was happy when it changed to only having a chance to reveal them. Maybe they could look into adjusting the chance to reveal when damaged, possibly stealther's stealth skill vs caster's eval, ss, etc.

 

[Ru TnT]

I do all my pvp on a mage. Good luck, you're going to need it - I wouldn't need more than one skill at 120.

I don't see many stealth mages here, just stealthers with magery to gate travel.

 

[Bo Bo]

stealth is way over powered. this is coming from someone who retired from the world of stealthing because it was too easy. Some of those temps y'all were talking about have existed on siege for years. Bo has been running them and murdering the crap out of groups of you. Bo has fought with and against Ru. Back in the day while against Ru the only time your detect was useful was when you had large group behind you. Not just one or two either cause the Bo would dispatch the one or two, but about 5-8. There are too many options on how to hide smoke bomb, shadow strike, hiding skill, invis pot, magery. Bo has been saying it for years. A smart stealther will never die. Once you know you are tracked you can break the track if you are smart, than the tracker has to get lucky and guess what form you now in. By then Bo would be killing either you or your mates.
How could any of you not say that stealth isnt over powered? If you really think that than you are not using it properly..

 

[PwnySlaystation]

If you make a stealther on Siege, you won't have to look for me, I'll be the one guarding your corpse while you rez.

I bet you're totally useless at PvP, just from this comment.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

This again? New Publish - Still no updates to - Tracking/Detect Hidden
I'm gonna copy/paste my post from there.
"Yep, i too have a Mage with GM Detect Hidden/GM Tracking, and even with GM Detect Hidden applying to the "Reveal" spell, it's still underpowered for actually revealing stealthers. I already explained the reasons for it being underpowered, in one of Rico's "Come to Siege...la" threads.
Basically to sum it up, the cooldowns on Detect Hidden and Tracking are longer than the cooldown on Stealth (especially with Smoke Bombs or Shadowstrike), the Tracking arrow updates too slow, and even with GM Tracking/Detect Hidden and hitting them dead on with a Reveal, you can have less than 50% chance of popping them out of Stealth due to Stealth going up to 120, and even harder if the Stealther is an Elf.
Stealthers have it EZ Mode, particularly Stealth Archers, and especially on Siege (no Passive detect)."
This was before the "Shadow" Ninjitsu Mastery too...

I also carry around Greater Conflag Pots specifically for Stealthers, even those fail a lot. Detect Hidden/Tracking does need a buff, and i'm saying this as someone who's had a Stealth/Fencer since before Tram, back when i had to count my steps and manually reactivate stealth every 8-9 steps. Not one of those people who flocked to Stealth when SE came out with Ninjitsu and Stealth became automatic easy mode. *puts on hipster shades*

 

[Troll The T Hunter]

Hi Ru

I have never played a stealther but it has always kind of annoyed me that half the population is running around stealthed on siege. Dumping 200 points into finding stealthers seems to be a pretty big sacrifice compared to what stealthers are sacrificing for hiding/stealth.

 

[TheDrAJ]

Sorry to change topics - but i wish they would fix remove trap so it really worked at gm on high level chests.
I die most every time i try to use it. I know the people on the trammel shards just use tele to open chests but that does not work for us Siege people. Yes i know i can just explode it and take the damage but it sure kills any role playing !