Stratics: The "unvarnished" events of the past few days

[Spartan]

LOL

Thats a brilliant way to mend the community after what theyve done!

Do you know what the requests were/are? If not, why assume this is an attempt at teardown? It may be for something totally unrelated to recent events for all we know. All that we know is some sort of legal request came from Stratics to JC. Let's wait and see, hmmmm?

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

It may be for something totally unrelated to recent events for all we know.

Look... I believe in giving folks the benefit of the doubt wholeheartedly. But even I gotta look at that part of your post and wonder if you actually typed it with a straight face

 

[WootSauce]

If you want to look at mis-direction on behalf of the "board" and controlling interests in the LLC please see their fundraising campaign:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/stratics-com-because-we-ve-all-been-there/#/

"Our plan is to run the site as a not-for-profit venture, so none of that will happen if we purchase it."

"Operate the site as a financially self-sufficient but not-for-profit venture, with all excess revenue being re-invested into the property and/or the community."

"In the interest of preserving the site’s content, community and history, the current senior operational team at Stratics have created a project to bring the site back into the community’s hands as a permanent, not-for-profit entity."

You can ctrl+f and find these quotes using the search term "profit".

Gamer's Gambit, LLC is the name of the entity that currently is in charge of Stratics. Google it, you can find the following. Note the "Company Type" category as PROFIT.





You want to go legal guys?

 

[Picus of Napa]

Wow. I can't see how that is a good move. Chances are we will never see the end result but speculation should serve most of us all well enough.

 

[Mervyn]

If you can't delete the thread, hide it.

 

[Picus of Napa]

Sadly this is probably the most traffic the site has had all year.

 

[Promathia]

No wonder this thread was moved off UHall. What a clear attempt to hide further discussion on this, especially with the new events related to JC.

Unbelievable.

 

[Ox AO]

"he did, repeatedly, break rules here at Stratics)

Not sure why you're not getting this.

Let me make it real clear for you. The - policies - don't - work

 

[BrianFreud]

Having worked for more than a couple of both type, a not-for-profit venture and a "non-profit" per the IRS are two entirely different animals.

 

[Cetric]

You have to be kidding me. I see why they moved the thread to a buried location now... This copywrite protection threat at JC because someone posts a screenshot on another forum sure should cause an uproar.

 

[WootSauce]

Having worked for more than a couple of both type, a not-for-profit venture and a "non-profit" per the IRS are two entirely different animals.

Legally correct, but how many donating in the fundraiser understood the difference? The majority of the posters I am guessing are not IRS clerks.

 

[Picus of Napa]

You have to be kidding me. I see why they moved the thread to a buried location now... This copywrite protection threat at JC because someone posts a screenshot on another forum sure should cause an uproar.

I'd love to believe this is the first case of such a event happening on the Internet. A bunch of clowns...

 

[Spartan]

Look... I believe in giving folks the benefit of the doubt wholeheartedly. But even I gotta look at that part of your post and wonder if you actually typed it with a straight face

Sure I did! <innocent look>

My point is ... why start all the <insert word here>-mongering when we don't KNOW what it was for. Recent actions were taken on an ASSUMPTION ... do we want more flames on top? I don't.

 

[Aran]

Do you know what the requests were/are? If not, why assume this is an attempt at teardown? It may be for something totally unrelated to recent events for all we know. All that we know is some sort of legal request came from Stratics to JC. Let's wait and see, hmmmm?

Yes. It was a demand for removal of the screenshots that were the catalyst of this.

 

[Aran]

Sure I did! <innocent look>

My point is ... why start all the <insert word here>-mongering when we don't KNOW what it was for. Recent actions were taken on an ASSUMPTION ... do we want more flames on top? I don't.

You don't know. That doesn't mean we don't know.

 

[Spartan]

And you have all this inside information right at hand? Really?

I agree, an educated guess would be exactly as you've stated ... but until SOME proof that that was it I will not jump on the screech-wagon and raise more fuss here. Yet.

 

[Aran]

It's not insider information. It was just posted where you apparently don't look.

 

[BrianFreud]

Legally correct, but how many donating in the fundraiser understood the difference? The majority of the posters I am guessing are not IRS clerks.

You seem to be expecting them to be. Your comment directly accused the board of fraud, after all:

If you want to look at mis-direction on behalf of the "board" and controlling interests in the LLC please see their fundraising campaign:

Gamer's Gambit, LLC is the name of the entity that currently is in charge of Stratics. Google it, you can find the following. Note the "Company Type" category as PROFIT.

You want to go legal guys?

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

And you have all this inside information right at hand? Really?

I agree, an educated guess would be exactly as you've stated ... but until SOME proof that that was it I will not jump on the screech-wagon and raise more fuss here. Yet.

To paraphrase Mulder and Scully.. the truth is out there..

 

[WootSauce]

You seem to be expecting them to be. Your comment directly accused the board of fraud, after all:

You literally removed all of my content from my response? Really?

 

[BrianFreud]

More like "You want to believe"...

 

[BrianFreud]

You literally removed all of my content from my response? Really?

It's called a 'quote', not a 'xerox'.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

More like "You want to believe"...

Who me? The only thing I want to believe is that somehow someway this stuff can be fixed and folks mend fences... as far as "The truth is out there" I have seen the chat log with my own eyes.. so there is no belief there, sadly it's just fact.

 

[Aran]

More like "You want to believe"...

Maybe it needs to be in a wiki before you'll believe it?

 

[Spartan]

Who me? The only thing I want to believe is that somehow someway this stuff can be fixed and folks mend fences... as far as "The truth is out there" I have seen the chat log with my own eyes.. so there is no belief there, sadly it's just fact.

Let's say that I believe you and Aran ... how does any of the bitchfest about this help to heal the community, rebuild this place in a more open manner? Tell me that ... as I believe you are one of the voices for openness in earlier posts.

 

[Aran]

Let's say that I believe you and Aran ... how does any of the bitchfest about this help to heal the community, rebuild this place in a more open manner? Tell me that ... as I believe you are one of the voices for openness in earlier posts.

Take a step further back: How does the demand help heal the community?

 

[Picus of Napa]

This lost community along time ago, now it's just about a private members club reminiscing about the good old times.

 

[WootSauce]

It's called a 'quote', not a 'xerox'.

@BrianFreud . this is what a quote looks like. Take it point by point, don't just delete **** that doesn't fit your argument.

If you want to look at mis-direction on behalf of the "board" and controlling interests in the LLC please see their fundraising campaign:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/stratics-com-because-we-ve-all-been-there/#/

"Our plan is to run the site as a not-for-profit venture, so none of that will happen if we purchase it."

"Operate the site as a financially self-sufficient but not-for-profit venture, with all excess revenue being re-invested into the property and/or the community."

"In the interest of preserving the site’s content, community and history, the current senior operational team at Stratics have created a project to bring the site back into the community’s hands as a permanent, not-for-profit entity."

You can ctrl+f and find these quotes using the search term "profit".

Gamer's Gambit, LLC is the name of the entity that currently is in charge of Stratics. Google it, you can find the following. Note the "Company Type" category as PROFIT.


View attachment 46934


You want to go legal guys?

 

[BrianFreud]

@WootSauce, that isn't a quote. It's the entirety of your post. A quote is, by definition, an excerpt. The relevant bits of your comment were included. Pardon me for not bothering to also include your irrelevant quotes of every mention of the word "non-profit".

My point stands; you've made a slanderous claim against the board. As you said, "Legally correct, but how many donating in the fundraiser understood the difference?" You're taking advantage of the fact that the prima facie situation isn't actually a correct interpretation to persuade people that somehow the board is doing something unethical and contrary to the board's stated goals.

 

[WootSauce]

pri·ma fa·ci·e
ˌprīmə ˈfāSHē/
adjective & adverb
Law
adjective: prima facie; adverb: prima facie

1. based on the first impression; accepted as correct until proved otherwise.
   "a prima facie case of professional misconduct"

Just in case most Stratics posters and readers are not on BrianFreud's level....

 

[Spartan]

Take a step further back: How does the demand help heal the community?

Okay - how's this ... IF there is a pic or pics on JCs site that are essentially Stratics proprietary or is their propritary info relating to this banning stuff, then they have the right to request a take-down - essentially a cease-and-desist. If there is something in JCs possession on the site that they are questioning the source of - but is not their property, they also have to ask via legal means.

So I ask again, how is the finger-pointing and cr*p about this going to heal ANYTHING? And to step back a bit in things ... I will quote one of my own posts with a bit of editing (boldface):

<looks around> I still see finger-pointing and a refusal or reluctance to try and create fair solutions to prevent this from happening in the future. P-ing contest comes to mind.

Do you want these boards to survive as support for our antiquated game or not? If not then go find the door and get out. Really.

Do you want to be part of a concerted effort to be more transparent in actions here or not? If not, find the door and leave. Really.

Good day, all. I go once more to find a new death robe. thanks.

So, I ask. How is your attitude helping things exactly? And I'll add one more:
If you are so sure that there is no way any of this can be healed (I do not say forgotten), then find the door and exit. Really.

 

[Uvtha]

Ummm guess you never worked for me. Everyone knows exactly where they stand with everyone else, and I will be the first one to tell an annoying customer they are to stupid to buy my products. Yes some of the people on that list are about as annoying as it can get, why not bring those people into the private discussion and correct the problem with them and remove them if need be. Rather than keep a top secret discussion behind the backs. Just reeks of spineless and coward to me. But that is the world we live in now days online or IRL.

In most situations telling a customer, or worse a contempory to gtfo is simply not an option, usuaslly you have be super kind and patient with them. Venting is only natural.

As for bringing them into the discussion... Please Mr. Troll will you stop disrupting threads? Yeah, not gonna acomplish much, in fact would probably be counter productive.

 

[Uvtha]

Shortly before 6pm EST this evening I received legal requests from Stratics regarding content on a website I manage. In response to this I will not be making further comments on this forum at this time.

Wow, lol. Rediculous.

 

[Tyrath]

In most situations telling a customer, or worse a contempory to gtfo is simply not an option, usuaslly you have be super kind and patient with them. Venting is only natural.

As for bringing them into the discussion... Please Mr. Troll will you stop disrupting threads? Yeah, not gonna acomplish much, in fact would probably be counter productive.

You missed the part about "And remove them if need be." I have never told a customer to GTFO just that they are to stupid to purchase my products. Venting to a close friend, a tree, your pet sure, venting in a secret forum deciding who to drop the ban hammer on....... well that is a little more than venting.

 

[WootSauce]

@BrianFreud "My point stands you've made a slanderous claim against the board."

Please show this slander, as you have now accused me of such.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Let's say that I believe you and Aran ... how does any of the bitchfest about this help to heal the community, rebuild this place in a more open manner? Tell me that ... as I believe you are one of the voices for openness in earlier posts.

Fair question.

May be a long answer though and if ya just hit the old reliable tl;dr I ain't gonna take offense lol

I will preface this by saying the only thing I care about, in game, on here or on other sites is the UO Community. Above all else the community should be put paramount... and yes, that also includes above egos/nda/spats etc. For too long there have been voices in the community who do not trust staff... hopefully people will understand I am not just talking about current staff. But am talking about all former staffs as well. I am not even saying that the community is right or wrong in their distrust of staff, merely pointing out how things have stood the 11 years I have been around here. The voices during that time of those who distrust staff has changed over the years, and has seemingly grown in number. Sadly, that is fact.

When you take a fear (even an unreasonable fear) that has become "popular sentiment" (in this case distrust of staff) and add fuel to the fire.. say for example if that fear is that staff is out to get people just because they can or for "political" reasons (which has been said a TON of times about every staff that Stratics has ever had) and then someone leaks screenshots that CAN be taken by people to show that very thing... at that point the fear transitions to a reality in a lot of folks eyes and begins to spread to others in the Community who never even considered it a realistic possibility.

In short, it is a vicious circle around here.. posters distrust staff, staff cracks down on posts that violate ROC, posters distrust staff more, staff continues crack down, "owner" sells site, new staff comes in, posters hesitant about them, holds their actions under a microscope, makes posts about possible "over reaches", staff cracks down on posts that violate ROC... rinse, repeat...

The only way that dang cycle will EVER be broken is by one side making some kind of change... and let's face it, the posters ain't gonna stop posting and the mods ain't gonna stop deleting posts that violate ROC and ain't gonna stop banning where needed, nor should they. That really leaves the only real option to be full transparency. Sure, full transparency blows... I will be the first one to admit that. But if the current staff TRULY care about the community, which I honestly believe most truly do - or seem to imho, they would move to some kind of system that would stand a chance at ending the endless cycle.

Now... how does this

bitchfest

help heal and rebuild? Hopefully some of the higher up's (board members I guess) can see the things that are going on, understand or see the above for themselves, see the passion in the community and how it is being negatively impacted by how things have been done for years, draw some parallels to what their current internal processes are, if any, then set about implementing a system that removes the parallels. Which to some degree they have already proven a willingness to do... I mean, they did set up a system to where bans had to be voted on which was imho a huge step in the right direction.

And... before anyone asks... No, I do not have a "Supporter" banner by my name. I have been away from the game for about 2 years and just returned about a month or so ago. However, had I been around for the campaign you would most assuredly see a "Supporter" badge as Stratics has always been my "home". Heck, it always got check and still gets check before anything else as soon as I sit my butt in the chair.


FULL DISCLOSURE - for any who care to read
I have been a proponent for full disclosure, non removal of UO related threads (even the negative ones) etc for quite a while. Even negative leaning topics can be discussed with decorum and civility.. or should be discussed at any rate. I advocated for just the removal of posts that broke ROC and leaving the thread open for further discussion. Even when I was on staff I made those opinions known all the way up the "chain of command" to the folks at the tip top once they solicited opinions on the matter. But, like I told them at the time, it is their playground.... not mine. *shrugs*

 

[Spartan]

Fair question.

May be a long answer though and if ya just hit the old reliable tl;dr I ain't gonna take offense lol

... <snipped out the rest ... >

You were spot on ... it was a long read! Believe it or not, we do agree on more than a few points. You put quite nicely what I have not been able to say: to break the circle of pain we have there has to be willing compromise. Too many of the posters in this thread appear to NOT be ready to do that.

I can see both sides in this ... and as was initially stated - mistakes were made all over the place. Yet many posters are picking at those and not tossing out ideas on how to get past them and get something cohesive back again. It won't be like old days - you cannot go home again - but it sure as heck can be better than this thread!

I believe there can be more openness from the "Board Gods" than there is. I was a mod some years back before a 6-year hiatus. I am firm in the belief that there is a level of openness that can be reached ... before the hammer needs to drop. I hope someone on the staff will take this next one as an idea. I offer up this as a way to start things:

1. When a poster does violate ROC or TOS to a minor level that would get them a warning, make it public and not a PM/message or whatever. Why? Because their mistake was a public one ... so should be the response.

2. When a poster has enough demerits or points against them to hit some threshhold, give them an open warning that they are close to suspension/ban or whatever. Again - openly because they have persisted in openly flaunting the rules.

3. When a poster actually reaches the limit for suspension or ban, announce it and point to the warnings they received and point accumulation warnings. Why? Because the infractions were PUBLIC, the warnings and points assessed were PUBLIC. Don't make a suspension or ban private so that rumors start - keep it out there.​

Okay, John Q. Public: toss grenades or whatever at these BUT do so with some ideas of your own, too! I just made a first move by suggesting what COULD be done. Who has more ideas? I have challenged you to be creative and constructive. Can you do it or do you still want to beat dead animals (except squirrels)?

 

[Uvtha]

You missed the part about "And remove them if need be." I have never told a customer to GTFO just that they are to stupid to purchase my products. Venting to a close friend, a tree, your pet sure, venting in a secret forum deciding who to drop the ban hammer on....... well that is a little more than venting.

Heh, so basically, "Hey you are too stupid to be my customer, but feel free to continue browsing"? 99% of people do not have that luxury if they want to keep their jobs.

I think the "secrecy" thing is being over blown here. The only means of communication these folks have is the web, if they want to have a private convo that's how they have to do it. As for discussing who should be banned, I have no issue with that. Having posted on a fair share of unmodded forums, I personally want the forum moderated, and they obviously aren't going to make a thread here on Uhall to discuss stuff like that.
Like I said earlier I too would have banned several of those people a long time ago, because they are pretty much only here to be disruptive dickbags.

It WAS a little more than venting obviously once the bans actually started happening along with all the other nonsense, you are right about that, but I was really just commenting on the notion that it's not ok for them to privately vent about obnoxious posters in a mods only forum. I think that's not only ok, but the cathartic benefit is probably a positive. *shrug*

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

1. When a poster does violate ROC or TOS
2. When a poster has enough demerits or points against them to hit some threshhold,
3. When a poster actually reaches the limit for suspension or ban, announce it and point to the warnings they received and point accumulation warnings.​

That would definitely be a transparent system. One of the additional things that seems to drive distrust is the "Mods do not take actions against their buddies" line of thinking. The only thing I could add to your points is...

4- Put the demerits/point count on the posters avatar over there <------- with a 0/20 (arbitrary number) type counter. This way people can see the uniform application of ROC violations.​

 

[Uvtha]

@BrianFreud "My point stands you've made a slanderous claim against the board."

Please show this slander, as you have now accused me of such.

It would probably be a libelous statement anyway, heh.

 

[Ruppy2]

If you want to look at mis-direction on behalf of the "board" and controlling interests in the LLC please see their fundraising campaign:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/stratics-com-because-we-ve-all-been-there/#/

"Our plan is to run the site as a not-for-profit venture, so none of that will happen if we purchase it."

"Operate the site as a financially self-sufficient but not-for-profit venture, with all excess revenue being re-invested into the property and/or the community."

"In the interest of preserving the site’s content, community and history, the current senior operational team at Stratics have created a project to bring the site back into the community’s hands as a permanent, not-for-profit entity."

You can ctrl+f and find these quotes using the search term "profit".

Gamer's Gambit, LLC is the name of the entity that currently is in charge of Stratics. Google it, you can find the following. Note the "Company Type" category as PROFIT.


View attachment 46934


You want to go legal guys?

Ok, so now we have an Electronic Arts owned game, with a management company participating with a web site that makes separate profits? I'm wondering if Hilary had a speaking fee.

 

[Aran]

Ok, so now we have an Electronic Arts owned game, with a management company participating with a web site that makes separate profits? I'm wondering if Hilary had a speaking fee.

EA and Stratics have nothing to do with each other, aside from Stratics running a fan site dedicated to one of their games.

 

[Ruppy2]

EA and Stratics have nothing to do with each other, aside from Stratics running a fan site dedicated to one of their games.

Is there not a management company (Broadsword) that contributes to the fan site which has a financial agreement with EA?

 

[Aran]

Is there not a management company (Broadsword) that contributes to the fan site which has a financial agreement with EA?

Broadsword employees post here, they don't have a financial stake/input in it.

 

[Tyrath]

Heh, so basically, "Hey you are too stupid to be my customer, but feel free to continue browsing"? 99% of people do not have that luxury if they want to keep their jobs.

I think the "secrecy" thing is being over blown here. The only means of communication these folks have is the web, if they want to have a private convo that's how they have to do it. As for discussing who should be banned, I have no issue with that. Having posted on a fair share of unmodded forums, I personally want the forum moderated, and they obviously aren't going to make a thread here on Uhall to discuss stuff like that.
Like I said earlier I too would have banned several of those people a long time ago, because they are pretty much only here to be disruptive dickbags.

It WAS a little more than venting obviously once the bans actually started happening along with all the other nonsense, you are right about that, but I was really just commenting on the notion that it's not ok for them to privately vent about obnoxious posters in a mods only forum. I think that's not only ok, but the cathartic benefit is probably a positive. *shrug*

I think we actually agree in principle......... I am simply suggesting bring the offender into the discussion and say look change or get out and if the behavior continues show them the door.

 

[Uvtha]

I think we actually agree in principle......... I am simply suggesting bring the offender into the discussion and say look change or get out and if the behavior continues show them the door.

Yeah. I honestly think they should have done that long ago with several of those people. I think of course if they did, it would end up being a scandal all it's own, cries of censorship and freedom of speech, etc.

 

[Tyrath]

Yeah. I honestly think they should have done that long ago with several of those people. I think of course if they did, it would end up being a scandal all it's own, cries of censorship and freedom of speech, etc.

If it did become a scandal the board could simply post the private discussion and say here is how it really went down. The secrecy element that is driving most of this debate would just not be there. Personally I would not like to be on some secret hit list, I can see what the board was trying to do but it blew up in their face. I own several farmers markets and the vendors all are strong opiniated personalities, that is fine and we all are and it is actually just our nature. The problem is over the course of a market season people rub each other the wrong way and if left unchecked it gets wayyyyyyyyyy out of hand. I don't want to kick anyone out of the market unless they are an absolute PITA and source of drama and discontent, because it then makes me look like MR EVIL. So 3 times per year pre season, mid season, and post season I host a meeting and dinner where all the dirty laundry gets aired out. Everyone gets to air their grievances with whom ever and the drama runs at near zero. Only 2x since starting this have I had to remove disruptive vendors, one who would not follow even the basic laws regulating her products, and one who got mad and punched the Market Manager in the middle of a market. Last week we had our pre season meeting and dinner and the offender who punched the market manager tried entering the meeting. I asked him several times to leave as he is perm banned from our markets........ so he punches me. Now he has some time to lay in the hospital bed with a wired jaw, fractured skull and broken wrist to consider the error of his ways. All very public and no question of what went down. The police asked if I wanted to press assault charges on the guy, which I don't but did get a restraining order because he is really scary LOL. Seems stratics staff could use that same level of transparency minus the public A$$ whooping and save a lot of drama and conspiracy theories. It is always the mystery and behind the scenes stuff that starts the rumoring and conspiracy crap.

 

[WootSauce]

You seem to be expecting them to be. Your comment directly accused the board of fraud, after all:

Defamation, Libel, and Slander: Key Elements of a Claim | Nolo.com

 

[Tyrath]

Defamation, Libel, and Slander: Key Elements of a Claim | Nolo.com

LOL the litigation possible here would cost 4-5x more than stratics is worth

 

[Ox AO]

Shortly before 6pm EST this evening I received legal requests from Stratics regarding content on a website I manage. In response to this I will not be making further comments on this forum at this time.

LOL the litigation possible here would cost 4-5x more than stratics is worth

what about small claims?