Yes I recall doing a lot of walking and running in UO years ago, Smoot, and being in the majority
Couldn't run all the time as I recall....
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Couldn't run all the time as I recall....
its actually relatively easy. last couple years UO has become a care-bear game for me and thats perfectly fine. still enjoy crafting / making pvp suits, but pvp and pvm is just the same old deal its been for the last 2 decades and gets boring fast for many old players now. i still go back to it here and there when i feel like it.
Double digit platinums very easy to obtain in game with 100 percent legit play if you take a few mins here and there, work some big trades, and build up a solid starting base to continue to keep the gold flowing. this does take an initial time and gold investment (which usually already exists for long term players like @Longtooths and me. heck, i made close to triple digit platinums this past year with rather casual gameplay (2 to 8 hours total gametime a week) despite what everyone says, you absolutely do not need third party sites, third party programs, or anything other than a little know how and time to become a successful UO "carebear"
i tend to agree with you. this is a fun topic to talk about, but i think that ship has passed for UO. its not the game it was when siege was introduced, and making siege "fun" again and have the original feel while working with where the devs have taken the current game just seems too out there. which is why ideas like this might be good for another totally new game, or a free shard, but cant see it happening for broadsword UO.
killing a billion mongbats with bladepirits, for unralving purpose, is not only lame, but also very time consuming (hint next to impossible)I trained Imbuing to just shy of GM by unraveling loot.
There isn't any skill that's next to impossible to train on Siege. RoT makes it slowand easy
I don't see why change is needed. If you change Siege may as well make it like any other shard.
Not sure if this topic is really about changes needed or just to promote Siege as usual.
When you play any game you choose what you like about it and the options they give you. If you don't like the options then people wont play the game at all. Life is about choices and like life things need to be fixed. To change what is unique about a particular part of the game just to hope you may get some other players to play it that may not like it in the end is pointless. That is why UO's shards are for. Most people prefer playing on that particular shard for various reasons.
Most of UO population prefers Tram than Fel now days. Siege has Fel ruleset only and that is the issue. Now for me I love PvP but I play games where we have several hundreds of people on a map ( sometimes we have to wait on a que if that map is full plus we have 4 huge maps) and we are all doing whatever is needed to win. We don't have to look for the action because its around us. PvP is not made for everybody. Our PvP or as we call it WvWvW has nothing to do with the PvE part of the game. Our WvWvW and sPvP is like being on a separate server. Yes, our PvE part of the servers gets a bonus on resources, buffs, loot, and all that jazz depending on how your WvWvW is doing but has no interaction at all with the PvE part of the game. So we choose to play WvWvW and sPvP if we want. So you have to factor in what UO population really wants and they prefer a safety net than none at all.
A true poll should of had the option no changes at all added because in the end you may get what you wish for and you may hate it. The majority of the player base is playing the game and enjoying it while the minority posts.
Not sure if this topic is really about changes needed or just to promote Siege as usual.
When you play any game you choose what you like about it and the options they give you. If you don't like the options then people wont play the game at all. Life is about choices and like life things need to be fixed. To change what is unique about a particular part of the game just to hope you may get some other players to play it that may not like it in the end is pointless. That is why UO's shards are for. Most people prefer playing on that particular shard for various reasons.
Most of UO population prefers Tram than Fel now days. Siege has Fel ruleset only and that is the issue. Now for me I love PvP but I play games where we have several hundreds of people on a map ( sometimes we have to wait on a que if that map is full plus we have 4 huge maps) and we are all doing whatever is needed to win. We don't have to look for the action because its around us. PvP is not made for everybody. Our PvP or as we call it WvWvW has nothing to do with the PvE part of the game. Our WvWvW and sPvP is like being on a separate server. Yes, our PvE part of the servers gets a bonus on resources, buffs, loot, and all that jazz depending on how your WvWvW is doing but has no interaction at all with the PvE part of the game. So we choose to play WvWvW and sPvP if we want. So you have to factor in what UO population really wants and they prefer a safety net than none at all.
A true poll should of had the option no changes at all added because in the end you may get what you wish for and you may hate it. The majority of the player base is playing the game and enjoying it while the minority posts.
As far I remember, we got pet bonding, together with other shards.
Tamers love their pets, so remove bonding would not be fair.
If you find it, let me know please.
Changes are needed as it is not the PvP ruleset, that stop players from having fun on Siege, it's the fact, items are balanced for Prodo shards, where you never lose anything. No, Siege should not be like other shards, it need to be different but it also need to be playable.
Is the topic about needed changes or just to promote Siege? I made it because Siege need changes but sure, it works fine as promoting too, I have gained a few new Siege players this days
Siege may have a ruleset, that remind of Fel but it is sure not Fel, it's a very different game. Some players first see it when they try it.
its one of the reasons people dont play siege tho. its unfair that you cant insure items, but that fully trained pet is at no risk, when its more powerful than any weapon or piece of armor that other templates can lose.
We sure dislike pets in PvP as we do not look at pets as PvP. Many of us will just leave the fight. It's fine a PvM tamer use his pet as defense vs PK's.
It's really not a big deal. The ratio of tamer to non tamer is the same as any other shard, and tamers aren't any more or less overpowered.
Tamers are just good for tanking, it's the other classes that do the damage.
Pretty much any other class can out damage a Tamer with a Greater Dragon. Mystic Tamers can do some damage and all but generally a true Mystic/Mage or something would out damage the Tamer/Dragon any day of the week.
I've said this many times the ONLY reason Tamers use Greater Dragons all the time is because anything you hunt now will chew up and mow down all other pets before you can even click your bandages to vet them let alone target them... Most other pets are like tissue paper...
Let me rephrase that before some idiot says that they take their whatever to kill Ogres and Trolls or something.... You can't take any other pet to do anything worthwhile where you might actually get something good from it beyond 100 gp.
so a naked tamer kills me using a pet, and loots my sword which i was using to try to kill him. i dont see how this is fair and keeping with the siege ruleset of item loss. if i were to kill him, he would keep his fully trained pet.
im not saying there should be no tamers, just if a tamer wants to use that fully trained dreadmare as his weapon, he should have the same risk as anyone else of losing it.
im just saying, this is one of the imbalances that prevented me from playing siege since thats the topic of the thread.
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It could very well look and feels different, if you did play Siege. Tamers are not a problem on Siege.
This has been the complaint against PvP tamers for ages, not just on Siege, Smoot. The Dread example fails an equivalency test because you'd need taming to "loot" a Dread and I'd need no Swordsmanship to loot your weapon. A sword can be replaced. A Dread cannot unless another Vanguard Invasion comes along. And, in practice, it really doesn't work that way. You'd take out the "naked" tamer, avoiding the Dread. And were you to die to a "naked" tamer it would be shame on you
PvP is a game of mobility, constant mobility in a way PvE is not. And pets are not terribly fast in attack mode. Your tamer opponent would need to dismount you first, something he can't do with his pet unless it's a Hiryu which cannot move as fast as a mounted opponent no matter what its stamina is.
Still, the entire notion of tamers in PvP inspires EXTREME emotion. Before the logout rule was in place - the bit about your pet logging out if you do - people would go to elaborate lengths to either loot or remove the pet. One fellow used to aggro pets of fallen tamer foes, get them onto a boat or simply far, far away from the tamer until they'd go wild.
I simply gave up on it. And I'm not making a tamer on Siege to try to kill people with pets. And if rule set inconsistencies were show stoppers I wouldn't be able to play on any shard
I've tried to give siege a go a few times....for me it's always been the skill gain that keeps me from getting into it. I've raised these same skills multiple times on multiple chars on multiple shards and i don't have the patience to wait like you have to on siege.
I want to gain as i use it...not wait x amount of minutes to get a gain.
I want to gain as i use it...not wait x amount of minutes to get a gain.
If you are getting killed by a naked tamer, you are doing something wrong. I get what you are saying theoretically, but it's just not reflected in reality. Dragons haven't been commonly used in pvp for a long long time. Other templates are just so much more effective, even with fairly basic gear.
Requiring siege bless for bonding would basically limit tamers to JUST greater dragons. You couldn't use pack pets, or a bake beetle combo, or swamp dragons or anything. It would basically ruin taming. The only other pet that would ever see use would be dread mares, which are more or less nonexistent on siege.
I don't know if you ever played siege, or are just assuming this is an issue. It's not, I assure you, and it's just not a good idea.
Honestly in my memory, there was only one regular pvp tamer. I'm sure there were more but I only remember one that did that for a long time, and he wasn't all that impressive, and he was pvping like 10 years ago. It's really not an issue.This has been the complaint against PvP tamers for ages, not just on Siege, Smoot. The Dread example fails an equivalency test because you'd need taming to "loot" a Dread and I'd need no Swordsmanship to loot your weapon. A sword can be replaced. A Dread cannot unless another Vanguard Invasion comes along. And, in practice, it really doesn't work that way. You'd take out the "naked" tamer, avoiding the Dread. And were you to die to a "naked" tamer it would be shame on you
PvP is a game of mobility, constant mobility in a way PvE is not. And pets are not terribly fast in attack mode. Your tamer opponent would need to dismount you first, something he can't do with his pet unless it's a Hiryu which cannot move as fast as a mounted opponent no matter what its stamina is.
Still, the entire notion of tamers in PvP inspires EXTREME emotion. Before the logout rule was in place - the bit about your pet logging out if you do - people would go to elaborate lengths to either loot or remove the pet. One fellow used to aggro pets of fallen tamer foes, get them onto a boat or simply far, far away from the tamer until they'd go wild.
I simply gave up on it. And I'm not making a tamer on Siege to try to kill people with pets. And if rule set inconsistencies were show stoppers I wouldn't be able to play on any shard
yes, i have a dexter on siege but quit after being killed many times by a greater dragon. and the tamer was always stealthed too. it was like a bad joke and i dont see the point.
@Ansel
i just think it should be added to the list. siege isnt atlantic where you have insured suits with 150hp 211stam 150mana. going up against a 4.0 rated greater dragon in imbued gear (or less when your first starting out) is just ridiculous. its another aspect of the game where the direction the devs went worked for insurance shards, but is just stupid on siege.
which is why i think it should be on the list, and one of the reasons i dont play siege.
i just think it should be added to the list. siege isnt atlantic where you have insured suits with 150hp 211stam 150mana. going up against a 4.0 rated greater dragon in imbued gear (or less when your first starting out) is just ridiculous. its another aspect of the game where the direction the devs went worked for insurance shards, but is just stupid on siege.
which is why i think it should be on the list, and one of the reasons i dont play siege.
I was more musing about the past than I was actually arguing with you, Smoot.
Well....and slipping in the point that not everyone is going there to PvP.
So I've been told. I wasn't speaking of Siege as I have so little experience there....I'm a raw noob. But I am familiar with both the disabilities of the PvP tamer and the hostility directed toward them is all.
If it is indeed as you say, Uvtha, and I certainly don't doubt you, then Smoot's point is moot....not in concept but in practice.
Except for Provincia VvV who rune beetle'd me then took all of my armor in despise last night. My unrepaired, damn near worn out armor.
When was this? Were you attacking someone or was someone attacking you? How did you die to a GD with its owner hidden? Just run away, it can't catch you. It's not something I have ever experienced. I have even been the hidden tamer sicking my dragon on a pk, and I have had 0 kills with this method, in fact my dragon usually was killed while I was making my get away.
What I would do if someone attacked me with a GD (reguardless of class) I would walk the dragon 4 screens away, come back and kill the mountless tamer, then go back and kill the dragon.
I'm not saying you are lying, I'm just saying I have never experienced (outside of like the year GD's were introduced 5+ years ago) GD's killing people or killing people with my own GD. Your experience may not be up to date.
it was about 8 years ago, the owner was only hidden until he started attacking, and he was following me around when i was killing lesser hiryus (which dismount so i couldnt stay mounted)
this was to be my pvm, second account character. no majic resist. its hard to run from a greater dragon when your fielded in. i would hate to think of what tamers on siege are like now that they can fly at max speed, bola you then just have the pet kill you. and theres nothing you can do about it. you can kill the pet, and 3 mins later that fully trained pet is right back at you making a joke of a basic imbued suit.
i didn't vote in the poll because it seems like all of these suggestions lean towards turning seige into a production shard which i don't think is freja's goal.
here's an idea that wasn't a poll option: what if seige rules were changed to make player corpses unlootable? instead, the corpse items stayed on the ghost. once the player was rez'ed all armor/weapons/loot was automatically reequiped. (read no rez killing. you could run to the nearest town for a rez. pk wouldn't know where you were. and there's no need to return to your corpse to retrieve items.) this change wouldn't eliminate pk'ing but might curtail it. and it might encourage more pvp. would you pvp more if there was no chance of losing your armor?
here's an idea that wasn't a poll option: what if seige rules were changed to make player corpses unlootable? instead, the corpse items stayed on the ghost. once the player was rez'ed all armor/weapons/loot was automatically reequiped. (read no rez killing. you could run to the nearest town for a rez. pk wouldn't know where you were. and there's no need to return to your corpse to retrieve items.) this change wouldn't eliminate pk'ing but might curtail it. and it might encourage more pvp. would you pvp more if there was no chance of losing your armor?
whats the difference between that and insurance lol?
the difference is ... you are able to keep ALL of your items. including those that are uninsurable.
I like it I think thats the best idea so far. @Mesanna please implement this change, thank you.
Oh no, that sounds very boring, was that way in WOW, did not like it
I doubt that would make them stay. I rather keep looting and make good stuff much easier to get.
I hardly believe it. You may had some current players "try" Siege by brining this up but there is a huge difference if they actually stay and make Siege their main shard.Is the topic about needed changes or just to promote Siege? I made it because Siege need changes but sure, it works fine as promoting too, I have gained a few new Siege players this days
Anything in the Poll that would be added to Siege, if taken seriously by the devs, is one step closer going to a Prodo shard.
Adding the option to have an extra home on Siege from other shards didn't help. If it did we wouldn't be having this conversation. Now you have a lot of empty houses just collecting digital cobwebs and dust bunnies.
All shards are having the same issue with dead times or low population besides Atlantic. That alone should tell you it's something more than just Siege.
You want to promote Siege? Instead of trying to change Siege? Have you ever discussed this with other players of Siege and asked their opinion before you even posted this topic?
Here is a suggestion.....
You like to promote Siege and I applaud you for your efforts. You should try to get the players on Siege ( or at least the majority) to meet up and discuss ways to maybe curb some of the negative side that other shards view/have of Siege. Promote skill training events with vets on Siege as protectors for groups of new players. Set up a shard team speak so any player can log in and ask for help if needed or ask questions or just to get to know the other Siege players. Give new players longer period of protection times from being killed. Just promote the hell out of anything that would help any player in any event. Your players who just like to attack anybody then give them a taste of their own medicine until they learn to leave the new players alone until they are ready to defend themselves. I have said this before many times and I will say it again a million times after this.....It falls on the shoulders of the community of the shard to promote activity to have activity. It starts with the community changing first! Not a poll or game change.
They are all pvmers.
I honestly don't think there's anything to curb. Yes, there are some misconceptions, some bias based on experience from nearly a decade ago, and other things like that, but honestly, I think everyone knows what siege is about by now. You can be killed, and you lose your stuff. Discussion really ends there.
We had (have?) the NEW guild to help usher in the new, help them gear and train, I think there is a public vent (dunno, don't use it), we used to have fairly regular player events, etc, etc. People have done a lot, Freja not least among them, but... in the end it just comes down to the core elements of siege.
My general thought on it is, if you don't think you'll like it, odds are you won't, and no amount of firecrackers and flag-waving and welcome mat layings are gonna change your mind. Most people don't like it, don't think it works. Those people willing to accept that the shard is what it is, and still feel open to it, usually have a good time, and think it's a great shard and a great community. They wanted to be here, so they were happy.
That's just the way it goes. You simply can't convince people with strong opinions about their playstyle to switch to another. It's as if someone from Atlantic came to me and said "Atlantic is much more fun, here are all the reasons why..." I won't be in for it. It's just not what I want, and if I DID decide I wanted to give it a go, I would know full well it's there, and what its all about.
I've said all this before in other words of course, but anyway.
Just pvp on atlantic? Why come to siege? What's the point? I feel like some people who play siege don't really want to play there.
I totally agree with you on most points Uvtha
Now I will openly admit that Freja does promote Siege. Her love and dedication to her shard matches no other. I do know many including her has tried with helping new players. There is no argument from me on that.
I still say though you can curb some of the bad behavior for a while. Meaning if a person who just likes to PK other players would want to have more action then at least let the new players be prepared. Just by giving them more time to improve their character before he just kills somebody like a new crafter or a new mage that cant defend themselves yet. The PK that keeps doing this he wont have many easy kills because the new players quit playing. The PK should work to help train these people so they can get better fights and have more fun with better skilled players than an easy kill and rez kill people. As I said vets can step in and shard leaders can help curb some of the bad that Siege has. I'm not saying that any other shard has bad behavior either but Siege you can lose stuff and people just don't want to lose stuff while trying to be competitive on a shard right off the bat either.
Now I will openly admit that Freja does promote Siege. Her love and dedication to her shard matches no other. I do know many including her has tried with helping new players. There is no argument from me on that.
I still say though you can curb some of the bad behavior for a while. Meaning if a person who just likes to PK other players would want to have more action then at least let the new players be prepared. Just by giving them more time to improve their character before he just kills somebody like a new crafter or a new mage that cant defend themselves yet. The PK that keeps doing this he wont have many easy kills because the new players quit playing. The PK should work to help train these people so they can get better fights and have more fun with better skilled players than an easy kill and rez kill people. As I said vets can step in and shard leaders can help curb some of the bad that Siege has. I'm not saying that any other shard has bad behavior either but Siege you can lose stuff and people just don't want to lose stuff while trying to be competitive on a shard right off the bat either.
Speaking of misconceptions...
Honestly, Pks are pretty much non-existant in 95% of the shard. If you are not at a champ or a boss area, or a VvV city, or something like that, the odds you see a PK now-a-days are pretty damn low. If you just run around the over map, or ilsh you are all but completely safe. The reason of course, anyone doing anything but high-end stuff isn't really worth killing, the land is so widespread it's not worth running for 45+ minutes to find some newb (if you are lucky) and kill them in 2 seconds for zero loot.Naughty PK's aren't keeping anyone off the shard at present (other than the theoretical ones in people's expectations), and of the very few regularly active reds, most are more than happy to help a new player, or even do a spawn with people.
That's what we did, it was very few PK's, who did not listen to me and agree to give new players 30 days to train, protected of the NEW/NEW2 tag. Sure some wanted to kill them, but agreed to not loot them and res if they could.
You have your idea about how Siege is, I guess I can't changes that, that's ok.
I already play Siege. PvP on atlantic is lame. No one to fight on Siege. I think a better question would be why do I play UO at all?
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*looks at poll* Freja knows what she wants. I just do not believe we can ever recreate the early days of UO.
Siege is kinda hard wired... It was created before trammel. It is just different on all levels.
We still have the old Blackthorn Castle in Brit. I like it. It feels like home.
I joined UO when Renaissance was on the shelves of every game store in town. It took over two or three years of pancaking around to find Siege.
I had created a character or four before that. I always poked around a while then left. I had been warned to never go to Fel much less Siege. There was only death and sadness there I was told. I believed my family and friends. I avoided Fel and Siege. Only populated by pancakers. I steered clear.
I am gonna skip a lot of boring stories, but I wound up on Siege over a decade ago. I fell in love with the shard, the drama, the gossip... all of it.
I will admit to pancaking Siege out on occasion. I was on board with the housing thing... Still not sure about that one. We still have plenty of room though. Houses fall all the time.
I adore Freja and she knows it. This is not the first time she and I have not seen eye to eye. We do respect one another quite a lot.
My thoughts lean more towards making Siege better for those of us that play there. The rest of you pancakes will either join us or not.
Siege... The eighth character. With a house. Come play.
Siege is kinda hard wired... It was created before trammel. It is just different on all levels.
We still have the old Blackthorn Castle in Brit. I like it. It feels like home.
I joined UO when Renaissance was on the shelves of every game store in town. It took over two or three years of pancaking around to find Siege.
I had created a character or four before that. I always poked around a while then left. I had been warned to never go to Fel much less Siege. There was only death and sadness there I was told. I believed my family and friends. I avoided Fel and Siege. Only populated by pancakers. I steered clear.
I am gonna skip a lot of boring stories, but I wound up on Siege over a decade ago. I fell in love with the shard, the drama, the gossip... all of it.
I will admit to pancaking Siege out on occasion. I was on board with the housing thing... Still not sure about that one. We still have plenty of room though. Houses fall all the time.
I adore Freja and she knows it. This is not the first time she and I have not seen eye to eye. We do respect one another quite a lot.
My thoughts lean more towards making Siege better for those of us that play there. The rest of you pancakes will either join us or not.
Siege... The eighth character. With a house. Come play.
Because I only have one account and refuse to pay for UOA, I feel like I'd be at a disadvantage. Plain and simple for me. And I suck at PVP.
Please share your secret. I world love to learn how to make so much in game.
I know you already play siege. What I'm saying is if atlantic pvp is lame, why are you trying to make siege pvp more like it?
Heh, I suck more than pretty much anyone at pvp (I only run, or if I know I can't I just stand there), because I am not interested in doing it, and I have never used UOA, but I've been on siege since it opened. Just saying.
I dont think my goal was to make a Siege pvp like Atlantic pvp. It might have happend that way, I guess we will never know. Even when I started here there werent that many people pvp'n. You might fight the same group of guys every day, but it was way more entertaining than running from 5 Archers spamming AI with 210 stamina all the time. Maybe I just want a little of the fun back like when I first started playing Siege or maybe I should just close my account.