I'm betting you miss a bunch of wonderful Bargains you never knew existed on things you never knew you could have bought.
But a change like suggested wouldn't hurt you at all so I fail to see your argument.
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But a change like suggested wouldn't hurt you at all so I fail to see your argument.
Implementing unnecessary changes hurts everyone when they can spend time working on something more productive like Eodon updates.
I play the same shard you do so let's not pretend I don't know how the vendors are stocked.
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Exactly. Thank you. I want to spend my time ingame clicking on things that matter. Empty bags do not matter and waste time/effort. One cannot always rely on the vendor search, nor does one always prefer to use vendor search.
This change would hurt/harm no one and can only help.
And, as you can see from my attachment, I'm hardly a banksitter. I'm wearing a black dyed death robe and riding a mount and nothing more, in that instance looking for magic scrolls.
Cheers
You misunderstand, to play the game you must point and click. This was addressing the energy argument.
I've already addressed the empty bags and i refuse to beat a dead horse.
As far as refusing to use vendor search, I mean, you can start a fire by rubbing two sticks together but most of us will prefer the easiest method. If you don't, that's not a flaw with the system...
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Let me ask you; do you ride a horse ingame?
If you answer yes, I can reply; 'You're doing it wrong. You should not ride a horse so that you can have a better game experience by spending more time getting to know the lands.'
If you answer no, I can reply: 'You're doing it wrong. You should ride a horse so that you can have a better game experience by getting from A to B faster.'
It's not a matter of whether you ride that horse, it's just a matter of gameplay preference, in this example. And...far be it from me to tell you how you should or should not enjoy your game.
Now...if the horse won't always run...then the question becomes moot. The horse being, in this analogy, the vendor search. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Sometimes there are a hundred horses to choose from.
Cheers
Another straw man argument.Let me ask you; do you ride a horse ingame?
If you answer yes, I can reply; 'You're doing it wrong. You should not ride a horse so that you can have a better game experience by spending more time getting to know the lands.'
If you answer no, I can reply: 'You're doing it wrong. You should ride a horse so that you can have a better game experience by getting from A to B faster.'
It's not a matter of whether you ride that horse, it's just a matter of gameplay preference, in this example. And...far be it from me to tell you how you should or should not enjoy your game.
Now...if the horse won't always run...then the question becomes moot. The horse being, in this analogy, the vendor search. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Sometimes there are a hundred horses to choose from.
Cheers
This isn't about a rhetorical horse because I'm not saying it needs changed.
You tried to make the argument that it is taking too much time and energy to sift through empty bags. I gave you a better option.
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Your missing the obvious oblivious one, we DO have to OPEN all those EMPTY vendors & containers.3. I don't even know how you can argue it being a time crunch. Hell you don't even have to close them if they're empty, you just run on to the next vendor and they automatically close.
4.
there's no exaggeration to it. i'd venture to say there are more empty vendors than stocked vendors based on my shopping experiences. especially on lower population shards. people use vendors as a bank to hold gold, store empty bags or chests or books or bods.
vendor search was a huge improvement to the game but it is buggy and there are items that are unsearchable. for example, some of the primeval lich items don't have names and even the potted plants from last Easter are unsearchable.
I know typing vendor view must be tough or single clicking the map and clicking open.Your missing the obvious oblivious one, we DO have to OPEN all those EMPTY vendors & containers.
But in a lot of cases, no you don't.
When someone shows me a video with the amount of time it takes thenm, particularly 40 minutes worth of two hours, I'll accept that. The rest is hearsay.
If just a few items you mentioned are the entire grief of the problem id say we are in good shape.
i don't understand the opposition to the OP's suggestion. it's an improvement to the game. period.
If you dont then you didn't read the thread. Feel free to do so.
regular / collector's edition / limited edition / first edition - which one?
I am a returning player who not only wants to shop but needs to shop. 80-85% of my shard's vendors have no items on them. Some have no bags... many have tons (and TONS) of nested bags (labeled or unlabeled) with nothing in them... some have multi-bag vendors that exclaim "recently restocked!" but instead contain only more empty bags or stuff that's not for sale. Many houses have 20+ vendors sitting like this, and nothing (or almost nothing) actually for sale. It sucks on multiple levels.
I use vendor search when appropriate or when I know what I'm searching for specifically. Sometimes I browse -- I need a lot of stuff and there's a lot of stuff I don't know I need until I see it. Either way, this is one big thing that has been driving me bat-scat ever since I got back in UO. I have wasted hours upon HOURS on these empty vendors and come home empty handed, or gotten ticked off and logged off for the night, while wondering why something so simple hasn't been changed in so many years.
I like the idea of changing the vendor color (I vote for ghost-grey...heck, I'd laugh if they had a death robe thrown on them as well). I'd also like the vendor to not show up in the house menu if it has nothing for sale on it. A bonus would be that empty packs (nothing for sale in them) show as grey in the vendor's backpack, as sometimes a vendor with 20+ nested packs has only one item for sale on them.
Alternatively, it would help if they eliminated the ability for players to use Vendors as extended storage, but since that hurts some players I'd rather the devs consider other options as mentioned.
As for why there are so many un-stocked vendors, I think there could be other types of changes to the game to make it worthwhile for players to stock and sell supplies again, because I think it's a valuable and necessary part of the game...but that's another topic.
I use vendor search when appropriate or when I know what I'm searching for specifically. Sometimes I browse -- I need a lot of stuff and there's a lot of stuff I don't know I need until I see it
. Either way, this is one big thing that has been driving me bat-scat ever since I got back in UO. I have wasted hours upon HOURS on these empty vendors and come home empty handed, or gotten ticked off and logged off for the night, while wondering why something so simple hasn't been changed in so many years.I like the idea of changing the vendor color (I vote for ghost-grey...heck, I'd laugh if they had a death robe thrown on them as well). I'd also like the vendor to not show up in the house menu if it has nothing for sale on it. A bonus would be that empty packs (nothing for sale in them) show as grey in the vendor's backpack, as sometimes a vendor with 20+ nested packs has only one item for sale on them.
Alternatively, it would help if they eliminated the ability for players to use Vendors as extended storage, but since that hurts some players I'd rather the devs consider other options as mentioned.
As for why there are so many un-stocked vendors, I think there could be other types of changes to the game to make it worthwhile for players to stock and sell supplies again, because I think it's a valuable and necessary part of the game...but that's another topic.
One single Luna vendor house, and not the worst one by far. Took me 15 minutes to get through their 3 pages of empty vendors and packs and nested packs, because the nesting wasn't that bad. (Remember, every vendor you click jumps the gump back to the first page too...so add un-shown extra clicks.)
I've easily spent a half hour at a single vendor at times, clicking through to empty sub-packs.
/thread
you seem to be the only one opposed to this idea. your argument is 'use vendor search' (which is buggy and does NOT have search capabilities for all vendorable items) and 'its always been this way' (which is the lamest response anyone can give). can you go find another thread to troll?
Another randomly-chosen Luna vendor house. Timed at 10 minutes to get through all packs and nested packs -- not including time to take the screenshot but I did accidentally right-click on one pack and had to go back and find the vendor and open it again (which happens to people sometimes.)
I could keep going, but hopefully this illustrates the point.
(oh...and I was using the house sign's vendor list instead of trying to "locate" a vendor and click on him directly. Less confusing that way.)
I could keep going, but hopefully this illustrates the point.
(oh...and I was using the house sign's vendor list instead of trying to "locate" a vendor and click on him directly. Less confusing that way.)
Now I'm a troll because I didn't buy into the empty bag complaint? Please, why dont you try being more constructive and actually provide a reason to support your claim.you seem to be the only one opposed to this idea. your argument is 'use vendor search' (which is buggy and does NOT have search capabilities for all vendorable items) and 'its always been this way' (which is the lamest response anyone can give). can you go find another thread to troll?
Vendor search works much better than running around randomly opening bags or however you are going about doing it. The few items you mentioned not being on vendor search aren't worth spending a good deal of resources to make a vendor pink ( or whatever color.)
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Tell me, did half of this time include sorting the bags for the screenshot? I'm guessing you spent the time to find the vendor with the most empty bags and spent the time to fit the argument.
Do me a favor and pick a common item youd search for the most and tell me what shard you're on. I'll illustrate my point in less than 2 minutes.
It was explained. You aren't trolling IMO though. I think Elenni provided adequate proof and anyone that actually enjoys this style of play can show you many more on many shards.
I love Vendor Search. It's the best thing in UO for me. However, it doesn't replace just finding vendors and curiously poking around. You refuse to acknowledge it so it's also my opinion that you are being too stubborn for constructive discussion. It's not trolling... it's also not polite conversation.
EDIT: You've never had that moment where you say "Oh, I understand that you like to shop around and are frustrated by empty vendors, BUT this is why I feel this isn't even necessary or a waste of time..."
That's what I mean by being constructive. You're just insulting people and saying it's not a good idea. You're not even acknowledging the playstyle exists to comment on it or suggest how else to deal with it that could be better.
Vendor search doesn't replace just going window shopping through Vendors. It's an awesome feature, but it's like comparing Amazon to going down to a major strip and window shopping.
I love Vendor Search. It's the best thing in UO for me. However, it doesn't replace just finding vendors and curiously poking around. You refuse to acknowledge it so it's also my opinion that you are being too stubborn for constructive discussion. It's not trolling... it's also not polite conversation.
EDIT: You've never had that moment where you say "Oh, I understand that you like to shop around and are frustrated by empty vendors, BUT this is why I feel this isn't even necessary or a waste of time..."
That's what I mean by being constructive. You're just insulting people and saying it's not a good idea. You're not even acknowledging the playstyle exists to comment on it or suggest how else to deal with it that could be better.
Vendor search doesn't replace just going window shopping through Vendors. It's an awesome feature, but it's like comparing Amazon to going down to a major strip and window shopping.
Personally I am happy as a clam with regular... If and when I get collector's/Limited or First's those are just Icing.... you know?
I understand the requested changes wouldn't help you due to the way you choose to shop and the types of things you go shopping for, and I'm fine with that. As has been pointed out, though, there are many others whom it would benefit without you losing any functionality. As with many things, vets with lots of recent experience or years of play don't seem to remember the needs of newer or returning players. For instance, we don't always know the names of things to search for and have to go looking. As noted, many browse while we're picking up something they did find in Vendor Search (which I know perfectly well how to use, and do use regularly, thanks -- with 25 years experience in professional Content Management systems so I'm good there.)
Fortunately, you're not the person we need to convince that the changes need to be made
For the record, though -- these were randomly chosen vendors. I chose 3 in a row. The second one was so bad I didn't have the patience to even do the screenshots. By the end of the 3rd I had the normal headache I get when shopping on Luna vendors. I've checked almost all those on my shard...I stand by the 80-85% assessment. That has been my experience. Feel free to come by and try it out if you are really invested in understanding the issue that others are having.
As for taking time to organize bags...if I was actually shopping my times would have been longer, as I'd have cared what the items were when I did find some and had to hover over them before moving on to the next bag etc. So the screenshots were faster, not slower.
And now I'm done...hopefully the devs are reading.
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I don't hardly ever use Vendor Search.... In the EC with or without Pinco's half the time it flashes for a second and closes instantly then I have to jack around for 20 min trying to get the cursed thing to work... and after all that effort I search for something and 9 times out of 10 the search comes up empty... or I get the item to come up go there spend 20 min trying to find the vendor I wanted sift through all the other crap on the vendor only to find someone else must have purchased the item already and it's still showing on the search... Or the *@#! thing is NOT FOR SALE.
I much prefer just shopping the ole fashion way. And if I am REALLY looking for something then I ask a few of my Vendor friends who like to run vendors and all if they know where I can get whatever it is I want.
Most the time that I go shopping I'm actually not looking for anything in particular at all or I'm looking for so many different things that spending all that time going back and forth from a vendor to home so I can search again to a vendor to home so I can search again..... is just too much of a pain in the rear and I'd just prefer to Search for one thing and then see if any of the other vendors nearby have anything I might want. Sometimes I just shop to price check things I might think about selling but never do.
I much prefer just shopping the ole fashion way. And if I am REALLY looking for something then I ask a few of my Vendor friends who like to run vendors and all if they know where I can get whatever it is I want.
Most the time that I go shopping I'm actually not looking for anything in particular at all or I'm looking for so many different things that spending all that time going back and forth from a vendor to home so I can search again to a vendor to home so I can search again..... is just too much of a pain in the rear and I'd just prefer to Search for one thing and then see if any of the other vendors nearby have anything I might want. Sometimes I just shop to price check things I might think about selling but never do.
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Right. I can see you've headed to SE Luna, out of curiousity I headed West:
Those are two different Vendor Houses in that general direction. Now, in this case I used 'vendor view' to search but I ended up not being certain which vendors the game opened for me. (Without perhaps checking my journal to see which spoke and which didn't, and then marking each individual vendor off a 'shopping list' which is even more tiresome than just double clicking on each vendor in succession in the first place.)
At those two, populated and by all other accounts seemingly well tended houses, in one instance 7 of 11 were empty, in another only 3 of 13 had items.
Again, this can be remedied by changing the colour of the name of the vendor, or changing the vendor's colour itself. Or the named text of vendor. I like the idea of a temporary deathrobe but to keep it simple (?) I'd be happy with ANYTHING to indicate empty vendors.
Cheers
Edited to add: This was on Atlantic, the busiest shard I can find.
Thankfully none of you have made a convincing argument. And only a few represented here said they'd benefit from it, meaning very little as a whole would need such a useless change.I understand the requested changes wouldn't help you due to the way you choose to shop and the types of things you go shopping for, and I'm fine with that. As has been pointed out, though, there are many others whom it would benefit without you losing any functionality. As with many things, vets with lots of recent experience or years of play don't seem to remember the needs of newer or returning players. For instance, we don't always know the names of things to search for and have to go looking. As noted, many browse while we're picking up something they did find in Vendor Search (which I know perfectly well how to use, and do use regularly, thanks -- with 25 years experience in professional Content Management systems so I'm good there.)
Fortunately, you're not the person we need to convince that the changes need to be made
For the record, though -- these were randomly chosen vendors. I chose 3 in a row. The second one was so bad I didn't have the patience to even do the screenshots. By the end of the 3rd I had the normal headache I get when shopping on Luna vendors. I've checked almost all those on my shard...I stand by the 80-85% assessment. That has been my experience. Feel free to come by and try it out if you are really invested in understanding the issue that others are having.
As for taking time to organize bags...if I was actually shopping my times would have been longer, as I'd have cared what the items were when I did find some and had to hover over them before moving on to the next bag etc. So the screenshots were faster, not slower.
And now I'm done...hopefully the devs are reading.
Arguably these fabled new players you speak of probably won't be randomly searching vendors.
Feel free to tell me though which shard you're on.
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I haven't done this with runes, but did do with Mark Scrolls, and (can see in above pic) the results were rarer high priced 'gold', 'grey' marks...
But that's another story.
Vendor search is great, I use it often. It's not infallible. I also shop via ingame vendors themselves. I do both.
Cheers
This was previously explained to you that you do not put the word scroll into search because that is not how they are labeledI haven't done this with runes, but did do with Mark Scrolls, and (can see in above pic) the results were rarer high priced 'gold', 'grey' marks...
But that's another story.
Vendor search is great, I use it often. It's not infallible. I also shop via ingame vendors themselves. I do both.
Cheers
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And, as I've shown:
In this particular instance when I search for 'Mark', I get multiple hits on EITHER END of the price scales:
There are SEVEN pages of OTHER items before I even hit a 'Mark' scroll at the high end range. Let's not forget that any given mark scroll may or may not be on the vendor at that particular time.
Coming from the low priced side, there are NINETEEN pages of items before I hit a 'Mark' scroll.
If, IF someone knows that they MUST search specifically for 'Mark' (and NOT 'Mark Scroll', or 'A Mark Scroll', or even 'Scroll' which is assuming a LOT), they will have to go through a given number of pages of results that are still not a direct hit for the search.
And I would venture to say that some folks not only will not know that the search MUST BE EXACT in a way that is not intuitive, but as shown previously, may not want to use the search function at all. Additionally, a new or returner may not even know the search function exists, and so:
Have empty vendors alert the player. Change text. Colour. Anything. As it stands now it sends a disappointing message. This proposed change affects NO ONE adversely.
Cheers
Edited to remove superflous word and add:
What I believe you are asking for, OreoGL, is proof, absolute proof, that opening vendors does not work. Proving a negative when subjective views are required is not possible. Proving a negative inofitself is, some would argue, impossible under any conditions.
Cheers
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Had to re type this response three times so here's the gist:And, as I've shown:
In this particular instance when I search for 'Mark', I get multiple hits on EITHER END of the price scales:
View attachment 38300
There are SEVEN pages of OTHER items before I even hit a 'Mark' scroll at the high end range. Let's not forget that any given mark scroll may or may not be on the vendor at that particular time.
View attachment 38301
Coming from the low priced side, there are NINETEEN pages of items before I hit a 'Mark' scroll.
If, IF someone knows that they MUST search specifically for 'Mark' (and NOT 'Mark Scroll', or 'A Mark Scroll', or even 'Scroll' which is assuming a LOT), they will have to go through a given number of pages of results that are still not a direct hit for the search.
And I would venture to say that some folks not only will not know that the search MUST BE EXACT in a way that is not intuitive, but as shown previously, may not want to use the search function at all. Additionally, a new or returner may not even know the search function exists, and so:
Have empty vendors alert the player. Change text. Colour. Anything. As it stands now it sends a disappointing message. This proposed change affects NO ONE adversely.
Cheers
Edited to remove superflous word and add:
What I believe you are asking for, OreoGL, is proof, absolute proof, that opening vendors does not work. Proving a negative when subjective views are required is not possible. Proving a negative inofitself is, some would argue, impossible under any conditions.
Cheers
A. It takes a minute to click next to get to the right page versus your "40 minutes" spent running around.
B. No one is going to continuously search the same vendors if they're always empty. And if they're not always empty there's no point to this thread.
Oceania. I was looking for masonry and a major vendor house in tokeno that had all the repair deeds are gone so it left a huge list of repair deeds at a location that didn't exist.
I ended up making a carpenter. I also transferred a couple repair deeds.
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Here's a solution: let's just get rid of physical vendors and improve Vendor Search instead. That should save a lot of everyone's time and resources.
Personally I believe that is close to the actual concept. With the new wall safe for payments over Iphones and other devices. Although I think the physical vendors will exist.
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I respect your opinion. And your right to post it here of course. But I disagree.
Vendors ebb and flow...sometimes a vendor that has been very well stocked will turn up empty. (Who knows why?!) Sometimes an empty vendor will turn up full. That's why the search is a great but not infallible thing. For shopping ingame otherwise, a minor change to an empty vendor can only help. I believe it is needed.
And I do believe we had agreed to disagree? If you want to discuss or debate this further I'm easily messaged.
Cheers
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Yes...I had similar issues...
Perhaps another thread with ideas to repopulate low prodo shards is in order?!
Cheers
You refuted, I rebutted, your move kemosabe.I respect your opinion. And your right to post it here of course. But I disagree.
Vendors ebb and flow...sometimes a vendor that has been very well stocked will turn up empty. (Who knows why?!) Sometimes an empty vendor will turn up full. That's why the search is a great but not infallible thing. For shopping ingame otherwise, a minor change to an empty vendor can only help. I believe it is needed.
And I do believe we had agreed to disagree? If you want to discuss or debate this further I'm easily messaged.
Cheers
You're being too nice. He's not going to agree. In this topic, I've just mentally noted that his piece isn't constructive or that he's the only one that disagrees. Like you said... he's free to have his opinion that I think is wrong.I respect your opinion. And your right to post it here of course. But I disagree.
Vendors ebb and flow...sometimes a vendor that has been very well stocked will turn up empty. (Who knows why?!) Sometimes an empty vendor will turn up full. That's why the search is a great but not infallible thing. For shopping ingame otherwise, a minor change to an empty vendor can only help. I believe it is needed.
And I do believe we had agreed to disagree? If you want to discuss or debate this further I'm easily messaged.
Cheers
What gave it away?
It had nothing to do with population of a shard. There was a house that no longer exists that had repair deeds. I couldn't get past that house to find another deed. The list was to long. She must of had thousands of repair deeds at the house.Yes...I had similar issues...
Perhaps another thread with ideas to repopulate low prodo shards is in order?!
Cheers
To be very clear. The search system does not clean out on its own deeds that doesn't exist making it very difficult to find simple items.
I question why you need to bring up an irrelevant subject to the discussion?
Why does a house full of bulk order deeds need fixing?