Petition to save UO!

[Conleth]

I've read interesting opinions here, and whilst I don't agree with all, I certainly respect them.

I stand by my original thoughts. New players (and returners, even) can use a boost now. With trammel critters looting, costs of insurance, lack of wearables on lesser creatures (such as mongbats, which have been suggested for new players), vast areas of land mass that we have now...I could go on.

I don't want to make it easier for them per se. I want to make it enticing. Addictive. I think a valid point is being made; new folks likely won't be willing to spend the inordinate amount of time learning how to do the more basic stuff, especially in these turbo tech times. Heck, I often think we'll be lucky if any new folks try UO. Have a peek at youtube for gaming reviews, I enjoy AngryJoe for one. He's an 'older' reviewer.

Bottom line straight up; I'd like to see the game continue on for a while longer and we aren't getting any younger folks.
Cheers

 

[Conleth]

...try dieing in the bottom of a dungeon, then find a wandering healer, then die a few more times because you have no armor. your gonna lose your stuff...

I can attest to this. And...I knew the dungeon(s) pretty well. The spawn areas are the same, but the critters are really kick butt now. (Liches, for example.)

I'm willing to concede that as a returner I may even be at a greater disadvantage. Maybe as a new player I'd learn the current state of UO better, faster. Perhaps.

But as UO ages so do we, and at some point we'll hopefully have more time on our hands to play. Retire and play a bit. Maybe some folks already are; congrats if so. And...let's face it, it's far far easier to keep a customer once you have one than to get a new one. Newbies are, by definition, customers. Returners, I expect, are a good market to keep in mind.

Cheers everyone

 

[Kirthag]

Back in the day, the MMORPG was new-ish. UO wasn't the first online game, but it is the first one that was successful. Other games wanted to be UO!

Now, UO is having to play catchup. Something I think a lot of people are overlooking in this convo is that most "new players" are not going to be "new gamers". The newer generations have grown up on computers and tech, and they have certain expectations that UO just does not live up to.

I play all kinds of games, from console to PC and handheld and mobile. I gotta say about 95% of the games out there have "newbie walkthrus" or at least an orientation area that is relatively guided. UO doesn't have this. Yeah, the newbie quests are there.. in New Haven - but a lot of people don't even go there. In the 5 hours that I sat there on Pacific , I saw 1 person. That person was another vet coming to see if there are any new people. >.<

My point is - There needs to be a guided section that will really get the new player, and returning players, a chance to see how things work. Something more guided, like the majority of the market.

Console games have tuts that teach you the controls.
Shoot, even Diablo has an entire newbiefied area and you have to reach a certain level before doing anything else.
The joy of UO for us back-in-the-day was we ALL were discovering - even the devs with OSI! However, that "age of discovery" is long gone and new people will want to get into the Champ Spawns and the advertised expansions ASAP. They will not take the time to get into the finesse of UO until they are hooked by the game itself.

 

[MalagAste]

What I can say is back when I started the game at least CAME with a user guide starting book... Which stressed on almost EVERY page... "Don't trust anyone... Don't talk to anyone... Don't take things to Anyone..." So I was somewhat leery of everyone.

But back then there WAS a Young Player experience. We had Haven too which older players could NOT visit. Though like an idiot I went through the bright blue gate.. that said "Don't go in here you can't come back."..... and wound up in Yew... had no clue where I was or what I was doing... I'd only played 2 days..... but I had the book to keep referring to.....

New players now don't have any such thing. They don't have a clue about anything in the game unless someone helps them or the game shows them... and lets just remember that.

 

[Kirthag]

What I can say is back when I started the game at least CAME with a user guide starting book...

OMG!
If I didn't have that or the Prima Strategy Guide - I probably would have thrown my hands up in frustration! I remember my sister telling me to "learn it on your own" and yeah.... that Prima Guide was a life saver.

my copy is properly dog-eared, written in and very well worn. Sometimes I pull it out and flip through it just because... heh.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

you didnt used to need it, but corpes decay now much much faster than they did when most of us started. try dieing in the bottom of a dungeon, then find a wandering healer, then die a few more times because you have no armor. your gonna lose your stuff. no chance in hell you could get back to corpse in time. and remember, you may not even have a runebook yet to make things quicker, or to go back to the bank for supplies because you dont know they exist yet.

the rest of your post i didnt quote, but you sound like a player whos played for 10 years plus. Yes, i can make a new character and have him on end game content and be making mils very quickly. hours. however we're not talking about someone who knows the game. we're talking about someone whos options are:
Try UO and have no clue what anything is for weeks, plus no help (because most shards are empty)
Play another game and be up and running, with known goals and direction in less than a day.

which would you chose?

Rubbish, you're whole argument is flawed, you're saying that this player is weak, doesn't know their way around doesn't have a runebook or insurance money or gear, BUT at the same time managed to get to the deepest depths of the dungeon before losing his stuff?

Even if for arguments sake that was true and that new players did suddenly materialise in the Ancient Wyrms nest, yes they could very easily run get res'd and get back in, monster names appear on the edge of your screen before they're in range so you can avoid them.

Yeah I've played for 10+ years, which is why I know what it's like to play without insurance, and know that it is perfectly easy to run and get res'd and get your stuff back. Not always, no, if you do something that's really f'ing stupid and put yourself somewhere that you're miles away from help you may run the risk of losing your stuff, but then why do that if you're not ready for it. You don't have anyone else to blame.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

"Starting a new character" and "being a new player" are two different things. Orientation is the primary issue -- "laziness" has nothing to do with it.

Laziness has everything to do with it the new player experience is easier than it ever was. The only time it isn't is if you take a new player and expect them to be hunting Greater Dragons on their first day.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

We are talking about true new players who have never come to UO and don't know anyone playing it it is not your case

Again, I'm not a new player NOW, but when I WAS we didn't have insurance or new player quests, and yeah they may have been times when I lost everything, it's called learning, you learned not to do that dumb thing again because you lose all your stuff if you go somewhere you can't handle until you're ready to. Losing all your stuff does not mean you can not play UO. If it did no one pre insurance would have anything.

Plus everything I mentioned is available to every player. It's no leap of imagination that a new player wandering around New Haven double clicking stuff is going to find quests.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

There is no situation in UO you cannot get out of and regear your character from. And unless you insist on using insurance when you don't need to the gold in your bank doesn't go anywhere either.

New players are being portrayed in this thread as completely clueless individuals, with no possibility of player interaction or help, and no sources of information, or even the brain/curiosity to click things to find out what they do. There's only one reasonable response to that - ********.

 

[Kirthag]

They are not clueless - but I will note a good majority of the younger mentality is, "... want uber fast - want uber now..." and don't have the patience or the mentality to sit and grind and grind and grind to make skills.

Granted, should the new player make their way into New Haven and do the noob-quests, they get added skill gain - but there is no one around to tell them WHAT that "bong" sound means. I didn't know what it meant when I started a new toon just to go through the quests for the swag (collector I be) - I recognized it as a bong sound from one of my old-skool birthday bells.

I'll add to this I introduced my nephew to UO when he was 24 - that was two years ago. He lasted about a week - and that was after I gave him a 4 day tour of things... so overall 12 days. Why did he quit?

Below is his list....

* Auntie - I wanted to go get the bad ass monsters and I kept dying. Frustrating!
* Why is it every time I ask for some help (this was on Atlantic) people give me sh-t?
* I paged for help because my weapon kept missing things all the time (took me about an hour to figure out the help menu thing) and a GM never game. I went to bed.
* How do I make enough gold to buy better armr? If I have to make my own armor, why do I want to fight? I don't want to make stuff, I want to fight. But i cannot afford the stuff on vendors and the stuff from the armorer is total crap.
* how can you play this game?!

I asked him what happened to the armor set I gave him. He ran into Destard - back out to heal, back in insta-killed - back out to heal - back in insta killed... rinse... repeat. That was the last time he played during the demo.

And yes, he's a gamer.

Point is, the game being such an open sandbox, and a lot of the dungeons are twinked out for veteran play, what we used to do back in the day is obsolete. Not saying we need glowing quest givers and some weird glowing path to lead the new people onward.... but let's get real. The population is not around to help new players as it was back when.
Way back when as a young one we were limited in what we could do to help prevent us from what is actually happening. We could revoke young status if we got comfortable quicker than the game recommended to go jump into the fray.... or run from the reds.... but that isn't the case anymore.

Spoke to someone who is returning, he's not played in about 10 years he said, but loved the game back then and is intrigued it is still here. He was utterly lost. We yapped for a bit, and I explained a few things, but other than that - he was aghast that so much is.... the same but very, very different.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

They are not clueless - but I will note a good majority of the younger mentality is, "... want uber fast - want uber now..." and don't have the patience or the mentality to sit and grind and grind and grind to make skills.

I'm aware of this, I just happen to think the correct response is tough ****, learn the game like everyone else had to. Plus you don't HAVE to grind, in fact the game is a lot more enjoyable when you take the time to do things at the right level.

Granted, should the new player make their way into New Haven and do the noob-quests, they get added skill gain - but there is no one around to tell them WHAT that "bong" sound means. I didn't know what it meant when I started a new toon just to go through the quests for the swag (collector I be) - I recognized it as a bong sound from one of my old-skool birthday bells.

Did you really need to? The explanation of where to go and what to do is right there in text in the quest, it even tells you which direction Old Haven is, and the directions are on the radar. There's really not a whole lot of room for error here.

I'll add to this I introduced my nephew to UO when he was 24 - that was two years ago. He lasted about a week - and that was after I gave him a 4 day tour of things... so overall 12 days. Why did he quit?

Below is his list....

* Auntie - I wanted to go get the bad ass monsters and I kept dying. Frustrating!
* Why is it every time I ask for some help (this was on Atlantic) people give me sh-t?
* I paged for help because my weapon kept missing things all the time (took me about an hour to figure out the help menu thing) and a GM never game. I went to bed.
* How do I make enough gold to buy better armr? If I have to make my own armor, why do I want to fight? I don't want to make stuff, I want to fight. But i cannot afford the stuff on vendors and the stuff from the armorer is total crap.
* how can you play this game?!

I asked him what happened to the armor set I gave him. He ran into Destard - back out to heal, back in insta-killed - back out to heal - back in insta killed... rinse... repeat. That was the last time he played during the demo.

And yes, he's a gamer.

I don't believe a word of this. It's just not plausible. For a start, for a 24 year old gamer not to figure out that the bad ass monster was too tough for him and he needed something at his level is not very believable. It took him an hour to see a button marked help that is on your screen from the moment you login. Your four day tour included putting him in a dungeon way beyond a new players ability, not showing him how to move, joust, heal or insure. Atlantic people being arse's in chat is irrelevant to the new player experience and certainly not something a 24 year old would cry about, a GM never came and I went to bed, you make him sound like he's about 3. Why would he not just ask you. This isn't a personal but you make him sound like he is borderline ******** (which is why I don't believe it happened at all), I can't see how it takes 4 days to explain you hit stuff at your level, loot it and buy supplies, then as you progress you can afford better gear and fight bigger things - does this really need explaining to a 24 year old gamer? Also I can't see why he would know (or be shown) to buy things from npc's like armor, when you've just given him an armor set. Again, not insulting you or your relatives but this just doesn't sound believable.

Point is, the game being such an open sandbox, and a lot of the dungeons are twinked out for veteran play, what we used to do back in the day is obsolete. Not saying we need glowing quest givers and some weird glowing path to lead the new people onward.... but let's get real. The population is not around to help new players as it was back when.
Way back when as a young one we were limited in what we could do to help prevent us from what is actually happening. We could revoke young status if we got comfortable quicker than the game recommended to go jump into the fray.... or run from the reds.... but that isn't the case anymore.

Completely disagree. Nowhere is twinked out for vet play. Pretty much every dungeon and hunting ground in the game has it's weak monsters at the front. What we used to do back in the day is not obsolete it is just obsolete if you have another character who can instantly give you mils. It is what new players are supposed to do - fight things on their level - what's the alternative? Have every new player hunting end game content from the moment they login... so what are they going to aim for the next day?

Spoke to someone who is returning, he's not played in about 10 years he said, but loved the game back then and is intrigued it is still here. He was utterly lost. We yapped for a bit, and I explained a few things, but other than that - he was aghast that so much is.... the same but very, very different.

And if he wants to he'll figure it out. None of these things stop you, if you want to play you'll play. There's also nothing stopping new players starting on Test Center so they can see how things work before hand.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

The topic of difficulty for new players is similar to the topic of trammies vs fellies. Two different players can both go and get obliterated in Fel, one will say that guy cheated/hacked/this game sucks/I can't do anything and give up, and the other will say right I'm going to find out how to make myself better so I can come back and kick their arse. Personally I know I'd prefer a game full of players that are capable of learning, thinking and adapting themselves. Not that just give up at every hurdle or challenge.

 

[Kirthag]

My 4 day tour was not plopping him in a dungeon.
It consisted of walking him (not recalling or gating) around the facets. Teaching him how to follow quests, and the different types of quests. I guided him in slaying his first mongbat (I healed him) and then taught him about the most precious tool in his pack - the mighty Scissors! I skinned and made leather for a good 6 months to buy a Silver Vanquishing Katana dammit! I really did! I taught him about the CC's interface, what skills work good with what, and the principals of armor. I introduced him to Stratics and UOGuide for info and even suggested he use the universal chat.

However, he lived on the east coast then and I reside in Hawaii, so our time together over those 4 days was brief, I admit to that. The rest of the time he went off on his own. Discovered Felucca, Destard within Felucca, and after being ganked, teased, bullied and robbed, decided the slaying of cows is not worthwhile to get the gold to re-gear for even the New Haven dungeon more akin to his skill level. He made it plain he would not get into "mindless crafting".

I warned him that some places are way above his skill level... meh. Like a 20-something will listen to an old fogey like me, eh?

And therein is the issue, eh? New people have no clue what dungeon constitutes certain skill levels. There are no warning signs outside saying, "WARNING! Big Bad Dragons Inside Will Eat You With Ketchup!"

And the "ominous music" upon entering Felucca means absolutely nothing to the uninitiated....

In WoW you cannot even enter a dungeon without reaching certain levels or being in a group for that matter.
Some anime-type games limits a characters travel by their skill. If they try to go ahead, they are told some "magickal barrier" prevents their movement.

Let's say my nephew finished all the quests for in New Haven for being a Paladin. THEN what? Off he trots on his mighty steed to the Moongate and.... uh... what is Ilshenar? Oh... Felucca! And *poof*.

I see and hear the frustration from the young, new and returning players all the time. Part of why I'm doing what I'm doing on Pac.

My nephew is far from "********" (by the way - that word is rather insulting on its own and one I feel should be filtered. I know some people with learning disabilities that play this game and others rather well actually - please find a different word than that). He just doesn't have the time or the patience (note those key words) for what he labeled as a "scattered, grind of a game".

 

[MalagAste]

I still use my Prima guide all the time it still has very useful information in it but I use this one:

And you can still find it for sale. Some of it is rather out of date but for the most part it's still good. I like it's maps of the towns.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Snip

The only issue I'm seeing is 'Player couldn't be bothered = game is too difficult for players = lets nerf everything or reward people that can't be bothered' The 'problem' you describe used to be known as the fun of exploring and learning what the game has to offer. Using Fel as some sort of anti new player argument also holds no weight considering it pre dated tram, and is even more empty than the rest of UO, and has certain bonuses. Limiting player access to things removes exploration and seeing whats around the next corner, what the next challenge will be. Being new isn't just about Haven, and I thin it's odd the way it's coming across like it's one extreme or the other, he's either whacking Skeletons in Old Haven or being PK'd by 6x legendarys in Fel, that don't wash, there's plenty inbetween. I didn't say he IS ******** I said you're making him SOUND ********, there is a world of difference, however, I will change the word, and again this isn't to insult but based purely on what you have said 'he doesn't have the time or patience' the word lazy I have used elsewhere is now accurate, he couldn't be bothered, thought he could just rock up anywhere on a new character and do what he wanted and (obviously) failed. Some players fail, learn, and adapt. He chose to fail and give up.
I'm not making this personal to you or your relative, but nothing stated so far has been a compelling reason to babify this game even further, why should the bar be set by people that couldn't be bothered.

 

[Gamer_Goblin]

How long do you want them to be in New Haven? Remember that a young kids focus span wont go further than 20mins in a single place with no one around, One of two choices they take, They endure the game and play for some time or they give up after 20mins of playing solo and go play a game with more player base and better graphics.... Very few young players will like to play solo.... Not even I want to play solo, I got a saying, If you gonna play solo, might as well get on PS4 Or Xbox and play a single player game....

You can GM most skills on Haven Island alone. And if they don't have that kind of attention span there's nothing UO can do to hold their attention. You can't force people to like everything. UO is a grinding game. You grind your skills, you grind your gold, you grind your quests, you grind your kills for drops, and you grind for drops to get rewards for your character/house. It's all grinding. Conceivably, you can go to Blackthorns as well around 60ish skill and be safe as well if you like PVM.

I wouldn't recommend taming or mining on Haven, but I can't think of much else? Lockpicking maybe. Provocation/Discord...

 

[Kirthag]

....why should the bar be set by people that couldn't be bothered.

Because as stated by the OP and what is generally common knowledge, we need those people who "cannot be bothered" to be the new blood which keeps our beloved world going. Subscriptions are needed - after all we get what we pay for eh? *looks at the Land Before Time splash screen again and shudders*

We want more and crave more - but all that more needs to be funded, and that funding comes from subscriptions and the Origin store. Its business, dude. If the bottom line don't perform - we all will be crying and probably slinking off silently to other-places-that-cannot-be-named-herein should the production shards lose funding from EA.

So, as we brainstorm, perhaps you'd like to turn your thought process to one that is not so finite but yet expansive by adding ideas to the Newbie-Young-Returning experience? We are not asking for nerfs, but brainstorming potentials - good and bad ideas come out of brainstorms, eh? Rather than bashing the thread and the initial concept, contribute in some way. Aye, there are fallacies throughout this entire thread - but at least people are contemplating things that, yes, the devs will read (may we know it or not, I'm sure they do read a lot of this stuff here and on other forums) and lo! Might spark an idea or two for them as they are in-the-know about the code's capabilities as well as their (obvious but not discussed) agreement and looming fiscal reports to EA.

And I'm not taking anything personally (been flamed by the best and no one's come close to that in years). You and everyone else at Stratics would know if I was taking something personally.

Personally, I'd like to see the Bounty System brought back - I miss my head collection. Yeah, I go back a ways myself (started in Nov. 1997) so ayuhyuh, been there, done that with 15 accounts at max, don't have tee shirts but I do have this nifty swag I won from a twitter contest held by Mythic some moons ago and yepyepyep! Got me every Macfarlane Figurine (AW is AWesome! still). >.< You're not talking to a noob, hun... but you are talking to and sharing conversation with a bunch of people who are rather passionate about this game and the time we've spent in it and we only want to make it a richer environment for all. Not that you are not passionate about it - however we are looking for positives whereas you are nitpicking at minutiae that is rather imbecilic imosho.

*breathes, cracks knuckles*

So.. with that said.

I challenge you to add to the conversation on a positive note. Other than, "..suck it up boyo.." you must have some input that would help my insinuated lazy and lackluster nephew to try again to delve in this world we have decided to reside within.

Otherwise.. in the words of someone so infamous... stfu. Nothing personal.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

It's a grind when you've played it. When you're new there's tons to see.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

we need those people who "cannot be bothered" to be the new blood which keeps our beloved world going.

No, we need people that can be bothered.

you must have some input that would help my insinuated lazy and lackluster nephew to try again to delve in this world we have decided to reside within.

It's not my concern whether your nephew or anyone else chooses to play.

Pointing out flaws and oversights in arguments is positive if it saves time and resources being devoted to them. I listed a great many things that new players have now that they didn't previously, things that are obviously overlooked, and forgotten about. Some may read that and go oh I didn't know about that, look it up, and find something new. Others may read it and go pfft, and carry on Leeroy Jenkinsing their way around as they always will.

The bottom line is there is nothing anyone can do to make a new player log in to the game and suddenly know what to do. It's not that sort of game where you follow a linear path with instructions printed on the screen until you know it all. It's like you're expecting everything to have a neon sign on it 'floor trap here', 'mongbat might look at you funny if you go left ahead'. This game is no harder than any other to start new if you play content at new player level.

 

[Conleth]

The only issue I'm seeing is 'Player couldn't be bothered = game is too difficult for players = lets nerf everything or reward people that can't be bothered'

I for one haven't suggested, nor seen in this thread the suggestion that anything, much less everything, get rewarded or nerfed.

What I am seeing are educated, passionate, opinionated folks. It's part of what makes this game so great.

I'm an advocate for choices. Choice of play style, choice to remain or no...choice to accept a larger starting gold amount or no.

Insofar as the Tram V Fel debate, which I remember so well, choice seemed to be key. And with that choice came great change. Change is never easy, it too is a challenge.

Regarding Fel, I too would like to see the bounty system brought back. I'm not anti fel or tram myself. I do, however, like to be able to choose my play style. And I'd like to see this game continue for a good long time. I think we're all making contributions to this thread in hopes that our input will improve the chances of that happening.

Edited for typo

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I for one haven't suggested, nor seen in this thread the suggestion that anything, much less everything, get rewarded or nerfed.

Being given a mil just for being new is being rewarded for nothing. It's saying jump ahead, buy gear that will allow you to player higher than you're ready for, even if you'll die anyway due to low skill/experience.

 

[Conleth]

Being given a mil just for being new is being rewarded for nothing. It's saying jump ahead, buy gear that will allow you to player higher than you're ready for, even if you'll die anyway due to low skill/experience.

I'm not advocating being given a million (though with the games current economics, imho it's a reasonable high end amount), though I do advocate a greater start amount. I'm not sure what vendors you shop at, but I'm seeing (on my visits to largely unplayed by me shards as my preferred shards are quite devoid of vendors) armour bits selling for many millions. 20 million for a pair of arms is probably the record high I have seen in the last month, and those arms sold for that, I presume, as they are gone from said vendor.

I think it's safe to say that 1k gold does nothing helpful nor hurtful to a new or returning player. I also think it's safe to say that 50K, or even 1 million starting gold would not harm significantly, but could help new players get on their feet a tad more quickly. I'm not saying easy (this game encourages depth by it's very nature), I am saying it may entice folks to stay.

And it could be 'blessed' in some way so as to prevent trial account creation for gold farming.

I was here 'back in the day' myself, despite my seemingly new status here. (Email has changed, stratics changed...I lost my pw...) Agree with me or no, but even us hardened Feluccans started out with 'blessed' gear. It simply wasn't marked as such.

I didn't and don't hear anyone complaining about that starting gear we had. Rightly so.

If those times were the 'glory days' of UO...the devs might consider bringing some of it forward.

 

[Uvtha]

So, from your point of vue, every new player who doesn't figure out things by themselves and quickly enough are dumb? Remember your first days in UO (if you can) I bet you found some ppl to help you

No, from my point of view not every newb is going to fail to figure things out. Also why is seeking help not a method of figuring it out? I don't know why you would infer that I was looking down on seeking info from friends.

 

[Smoot]

@Lord GOD(GOD) hey man, i think were on the same page, id love to see perma-death in UO personally, but for the average new-player whos used to modern games, the UO start-up is just not gonna fly.

 

[Kirthag]

--TLDR:
Yes, dude, you have good points - however my point is thus: UO, being an aged game, needs to find ways to entice and cater to the newer generations of players for longevity. Yes, those newer gens are lazy and want it all now without investing as much as we had - if you got kids you know what I mean. My kids are having kids of their own now - my grandson got his first iPad at 2 years of age.... He's 5 now and works it like a pro (even scolded me for not updating my Skype before our session!). My son, age 27, got bored of Diablo 3 within 2 weeks of it being out - he leveled his toon so quick even Blizzard thought he cheated (he was on vacation and blew through the game like a laser through butter). He got his first computer at age 12, installed Linux without my permission within 2 months and proved to me how much better a Penguin is to a Rainbow Apple.

When I was 12 I was just starting to roll the dice for Kirthag in a "bad game" called Dungeons and Dragons.... of course, the guys & I had to do it behind our parents' backs for D&D was "devil worship".......

think about all that.... kids & tweeners today may invest the time, energy & money - but they are gonna wanna feel satisfaction and accomplishment rather quickly. How can UO fulfill those requirements without
1 - Player involvement
2 - Tweaks from the Devs
3 - Serious upgrades to the overall scope of programming and account management.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Now, if you wanna read.... for those that know me know how I can get.....


My very first death took place on November 29, 1997, the second day I logged into the game. I was glamoured by the stories my sister and her hubby shared - a game where I could actually fulfill a ROLE and not conform to some archetype of a character. Kirthag came into Sosaria as a Tailor with Cooking and Musicianship skills. I was still overcoming the first challenge of gaming on a PeeCee - learning how to use a two-button mouse (prior to this, I believed Macs were the better systems ).

As I meandered around Moonglow, making sure to stay well away from the fences (for back then, the reds could cast over the fences, making for interesting "fence battles"), I saw a small, brown scruffy thing coming toward me. I realized it was a rat. Not thinking anything of it, I was stunned when it attacked me. Within 4 attacks, I was dead. What was I to do? Throw a sewing kit at it! I had no idea how to equip the dagger my sister gave me! I thought if I clicked the dagger, the rat would take damage - I had no idea I was supposed to put it in my hand!

Ahh... a newb's first death.

My first death to another player was in Yew. Back then, it was roulette with the moongates - their destination was by moon phase... and if you didn't have a spyglass, you had no idea what the phase was. Who remembers standing around a gate, hiding, then when someone appeared, asking them where they came from? *raises hand* Nine time out of ten I'd not get to that destination. I originally wanted to go to Brit (I figured bigger city, better guard coverage) - but I found myself in the midst of dense forest and houses.

Screaming at my sis (for she was gaming in the other room), I find out I got to Yew and not Brit! Sis yells back, "Run left! Just run, run, run!"

Before I get two steps, a Shadowclan Orc slams into me. I lost all stamina (in RP sense that means I fell to my ass), and without any idea what to do, I "threw" my sewing kit at the Shadowclan Orc. The kit bounced off him and landed on the ground (in reality, I was fumbling with the damned mouse! Instead of grabbing the dagger, I had grabbed the sewing kit, and dropped it outside the pack). The orc laughed at me as he cut me to bits and took my head.

That was the moment I decided to become a warrior instead of the uber crafter. I was so.... angry.... at the damn PeeCee, at the laughing "orc" (he also took my sewing kit!), at the moongate's perplexing dumpage of my arse in "PK Alley".

I didn't even bother to res. I marched my ghostly self back to Moonglow and rage-quit for three weeks.

So I played off and on via my sister's account until T2A. In those earliest days, I couldn't see committing the money not only to the game, but to getting a new system for I had heavily invested in my Mac gear and software as a graphic designer. I can firmly say, it is only because of the T2A and the potential I saw in the game that I bit the bullet, learned how to build my own PC, and learned what a gamer-geek-chick is. I can rightly say, it changed my life.


So, after that preamble, and having my newb experience really just a slight recall away, I understand my nephew's frustration and that of others.

What I had as a newb (and they are in this order for a reason):

• Friends - all kinds of friends - and strangers even who would band together for there was safety in numbers! We became friends! And even more friends from guilds and alliances and role play and bank sitting and hunting and gathering and getting stuck at sea and then the forums and chatting and flaming and... and... and.... (you get the point)
• Enemies - serious enemies - who would tease and taunt me to the point where I didn't even sleep for days on end (particularly over the weekends) just so I could raise my skill and "get back at them" ... someday ...
• Counselors & very active GMs. They were very passionate about the game, those Seers and GMs and Counselors who would bend over backwards for a lost and bumbling warrior in training! A GM once shadowed me through Despise - I know for as I was flinging curses at the Sleestaks, the GM appeared and was LOLing so hard he had a hard time typing.
• Curiosity. As an avid D&D player, I found this graphical way of playing much to my liking. Things fell into my fantasy-medieval way of thinking and it suited me just fine. My character was born to the dice and she grew in the MUDs and MUSHes, but she really came to be Kirthag in UO.
• I found the best monster, eveh! Other Players. No monster AI could match the unpredictability of another player somewhere out there. THAT is what kept me coming back. How would the "living story" of my interactions develop while I was offline? Would that other guild live up to their alliance promise, or would I find my house totally looted? And man I cannot wait for payday and I can top off my PayPal to jump into eBay and buy that Villa!! OMG! SOMEONE OUTBID ME!!!!

At the core of it all, it really is other players.

That said - I'm taking the step toward "what once was" on Pacific. I dunno the shard's politics (for I recently moved there) and I only know a few people. What helped make the game "fun" for me back-in-the-day was the interactions. So pfhht, there it is. The devs make awesome content, and that awesome content helps to spur social interaction. But the social interaction comes from.... us players.

Instead of looking at the game from a soloist's perspective (which a lot of us have been doing, be honest now) we need to think about why we play, why we stay, and why we want it to last. Having been a News Reporter, Editor and Publisher of Stratics off and on since 2002, the most prominent aspect that comes up time and time again is THE COMMUNITY aspect of our game.

So - @Lord GOD(GOD) you are kinda right, even if you are so crass in your expression and quick to dismiss that revenue stream. But it isn't about lazy new players or cannot be bothered nephews.... is about how we THE COMMUNITY present, represent and express ourselves within THE COMMUNITY that ignites that spark of a newb - be it in a "care bear trammy" way or a "&^%$@ mother*^(^ RED" fashion. It ebbs, it flows, and it is up to the player base to encourage the newb while giving ideas to the devs to make it better for all.

The game has gotten "harder" due to those who are at max/peak as well as the lack of population. We recognize that. It is only natural for the new people, and returning people, to say, "Wow! I want a castle too! I want to buy that 50billion ring! Oh wait, I have to _work_ for that? Okay, but it will take _how_ long? There's no micro-in-game-store method? I have to go jump through how many websites to apply a boost?!
Meh.
I'll go play Diablo and level up to max in 3 days, not 3 years!"

That is the mentality. We stuck with UO for the competition wasn't any better (actually, was worse in some respects... EQ's cows falling from trees comes to mind). We HAD no other choice then! Nowadays, the new people have a plethroa of choices being flung at them - especially now that the holiday season is fast upon us. Do you honestly think UO can compete with the bells, whistles, graphics, ease of management and slick advancement offered out there? To the younger demographics - the answer is a resounding "hell no".

My career has changed since my Mac days. Now I'm an ecommerce programmer with marketing and social engineering tucked nicely into my belt loops. I think I do pretty good despite being between positions right now. Is why I had to resign from Stratics - to concentrate on the money aspect of what I do. Yes.. the game holds a higher position than Stratics in my life; without the game I never would have found Stratics - met all you wonderful people, and made so many awesome frienemies.

Bah, getting long winded again.



and i stop here.
i have an event to prep for, resources to gather, and dinner to feed to the ravenous lions who are roaring already.

mair soar.

 

[Elenni]

It can be very hard sometimes for people who are experienced to truly "experience" what it's like to be new and completely clueless in a vast place with so much content and no frame of reference. As I said, I've just repeated that newbie stage, but with the advantage of knowing what the rewards were at the end, along with some leftover goodies I had saved in my bank -- and the helpfulness of other residents I eventually found and got to know. It's very easy for some people to call these new players lazy or stupid, but that's a pretty narrow viewpoint. If you personally don't want to deal with n00bs, that's your prerogative...but as Kirthag points out, Broadsword's balance sheet and the future of *our game* depends on those new players coming, and staying.

This is one reason why I volunteered to help with the Wiki on Stratics...basically "all the information I used to be able to find back in the day when I first started playing UO." It won't be a Prima guide (yep...I had one of those too, and read it cover to cover), but perhaps it could be something even more valuable. I can't begin to recount all the times that a Stratics member's write-up of a quest, sub-system or a profession guide got me through and moving on to the next level.

That said, I'd still like some in-game improvements to the "new player experience" to keep those newbies in-game long enough to make them want to go find the player fansites and the wiki.

 

[Elenni]

No I was just saying that, for example, if no-one tells you a simple thing like, for example, you must type : "i wish to lock this down", "i wish to release this" etc etc and if there is no book and no-one around, what can a real new player on his own do? That cannot be invented yes? (and this is just an example among many)

*THIS.*

Between that example and Kirthag's "I was a newbie in UO" story, I suddenly remembered how I got through those initial baby steps in UO the first time around. I had a RL friend/coworker who said "I play this really fun game online..." He told me about locking things down, and securing and releasing them, and houses and banks (because I too was dropping things on the ground when I hit my weight limit!) And he told me to wrestle mongbats but run past gazers when I got out of something called a moongate and...and...and THEN I went out and found Stratics and Prima etc.-- after I made it through my personally-guided new player experience.

 

[Spock's Beard]

A few marked runes, but no runebook. They can make a scribe and craft one themselves.

Or they can buy one off vendor search for 500gp, but it's probably easier to just drop one in their pack with a non-exceptional number of charges rather than expect the system to explain to them what one is, then tell them how to search for one, then hope there's one up for a good price at the moment, blah blah blah. Honestly, it's cringeworthy when a new/returning player asks how they get to a dungeon in this game. I usually just run and buy them some runebooks on the spot.

Bring back despise dungeon. I remember getting lost in despise when I was new. I broke into a sweat it was so exciting! This, by far, was one of the best newbie dungeons ever -maybe covetous too.

This. The way they took Despise, the game's newbie dungeon and the #1 destination for anyone trying to build a character by playing the game, and plowed it under for that stupid-ass minigame about awkwardly controlling monsters is a shining example of the devs making the game worse.

 

[Spock's Beard]

I'd agree with the bonded horse... but, the runebook... not so much. Players already want to leave New Haven too soon. You're meant to stay there for a good while. I do think there should be a "Walkthrough" written up on the new wiki on Suggested starting goals. For example... starting with a Melee Fighter or Mage is a lot easier to learn than a Tamer/Treasure Hunter.

There's like two or three total types of things to even kill on that island. I want them off it and doing something else as soon as possible. It used to be that you just sent everyone to Despise once they could kill anything, but that was run into the ground.

 

[MalagAste]

Or they can buy one off vendor search for 500gp, but it's probably easier to just drop one in their pack with a non-exceptional number of charges rather than expect the system to explain to them what one is, then tell them how to search for one, then hope there's one up for a good price at the moment, blah blah blah. Honestly, it's cringeworthy when a new/returning player asks how they get to a dungeon in this game. I usually just run and buy them some runebooks on the spot.



This. The way they took Despise, the game's newbie dungeon and the #1 destination for anyone trying to build a character by playing the game, and plowed it under for that stupid-ass minigame about awkwardly controlling monsters is a shining example of the devs making the game worse.

I always thought it showed just how disconnected with the game and how it functions the DEVs are... And how they totally have no CLUE how to really play the game or how players actually use and play the game. I kept telling them that Deceit was a FAR better choice for a revamp almost no one goes there... and they still don't. I begged them to leave Despise as it was... it was by far the most useful dungeon for Tamers, Dexers and Newer players. It had places to farm spinned leather for those needing it... it was the most excellent place to learn and gain parry, it was great for building up tactics... and to 120 skills for peacing, Provo and Discord as well...

Now it's used by a very few... and griefed terribly. Such a pity.

 

[Uvtha]

No I was just saying that, for example, if no-one tells you a simple thing like, for example, you must type : "i wish to lock this down", "i wish to release this" etc etc and if there is no book and no-one around, what can a real new player on his own do? That cannot be invented yes? (and this is just an example among many)

Like I said, I am all for better in game documentation. I have been for it for literally 10+ years. But in most cases I feel like people would see something like a locked down item, or a skill being used in some way, and say "how do I do that?"

 

[Dot_Warner]

Here's an idea...

Reward 25-50k gold for each newbie skill quest completed the first time. (Devs need to make quests for ALL skills)

Through questing, supply the newbie with an all 60's leather suit with +3 regens, +5 to stats etc. (Something useful, but intentionally temporary.)

When a newbie has gained a combination of say 70 weapon skill/anatomy/tactics OR 70 magic skill/eval(or focus/spirit speek)/meditation they receive a runebook to skill-appropriate locals for further training. Timer the book to go poof after a month or so so they have to interact.

Issue a Horn of Retreat to every newbie, with a change in destination to the New Haven Bank, so they can easily return to the island when their adventures off the island go south.

Nothing over powering, nor a massive gold spigot, but something that will tone down the levels of frustration and help them feel like they're achieving something.

 

[Lady CaT]

OK that title is a little inflammatory, flames expected.

I've been thinking about Ultima; new players, old players, what kind of trouble folks might be having, or would have if new or returning (I am a return vet). So, here are some ideas to toss around. Give new or returning players:

-Runebooks (as in TC). The lands have gotten so big that just getting from A to B is an undertaking. (Before you say yay or nay, consider that when UO came out it was 1 facet, with limited cities. We all hung at WBB. Newbies, or returning vets literally could not get lost in the game, nor would they ever feel they were alone on their shard.) There are a huge number of choices for us all to make; for new players, it could be boring/overwhelming to try to find folks to assist them, or to learn all the new lands whilst running around on their own.

-More gold. For insurance, for buying powders, for the myriad of things that you absolutely NEED in the game these days. The starting gold should be reflective of the current economy and it's not. This game is very wealthy; 1K is not helpful.

-Horse. If I understand the anniversary gift horse? You double click it and a real, bonded horse becomes yours? (Not an ethy.) If it doesn't work this way, it could and maybe should. Make it easier to run around. A new or returning vet will have to spend most of their gold on a mount just to get around, even IF they have runebooks.

I'm going to think more on this, and annoy you all by posting again methinks.

And before you tell me that there ARE no new players, well, that's what steam will remedy. Or could do. We need new blood, we aren't getting any younger.

Cheers

Okay brand new player! *grants wish*
You now have fully marked runebook to everywhere in the world!
A invulnerable horse that never dies!
And a bag with 1 million gold pieces!

Now what? A new player still doesn't know what to do. A new player still has no skill. A new player still don't know where to go or the area they just recalled too. A new player still doesn't know how they should spend their 1 million gold. An 18 year veteran player killer is still going to kill a new player, even if the player killer is naked and the new player spent 100 million gold on elite equipment. A new player will die in about every dungeon because a new player doesn't know anything about tactics, how to fight (or not throw a sewing kit), what equipment they need, and have no experience with the creature they are encountering.

The reason why new players start with the basics (dagger,1000gp,etc) is as others have tried to state. It is to protect new players and to force a new player to spend time learning the game. So a new player doesn't take on too much too fast and get......um .....FRUSTRATED!
In fact, veteran players have probably contributed a lot to new players frustration by giving new players things they aren't ready to use or taking them places they can't handle. Completely forgetting this new player can't even open their paper doll to equip an item yet. A macro???...what's that?

A new player dies because THEY are pushing or were pushed too far too fast. New players don't have the skills, knowledge, timing, or any real clue for that matter about what they are doing.

It's not really about what new players have to start, as a lot of us keep saying, no matter how much a new player doesn't want to hear it. Its about the skills they learn, the experience they gain, and the skills they develop. If a new player thinks somehow they can bypass all that learning, experience, and skill quickly and easily. Or that somehow UO developers or players can magically impart all the world knowledge instantly to them. Good luck! That is why lots of information has been documented online. It's very difficult for any person to know or even remember everything there is to know about Ultima Online. Its a record left by old players to help new players enjoy the game.

You don't win Ultima Online in a week, month, year or even a decade or two. Its about enjoying the adventuring, exploring, and surviving in an online world that changes.

 

[Conleth]

Okay brand new player! *grants wish*
You now have fully marked runebook to everywhere in the world!
A invulnerable horse that never dies!
And a bag with 1 million gold pieces!......

Gee, I got exactly as far as I quoted you and stopped. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone read eachother's posts?

For the record, which you are most welcome, nay, invited to peruse, I have never advocated any of those exact items. I have advocated for giving some concession to new players to entice them to stay, in the form of runes/runebook (that I suggested could possibly be temporary and/or limited to most *populated areas ingame, because? Just how is a new player to make his way in our exceedingly economically unviable Sosaria if they never even meet up with other folks?) I suggested some type of *bonded horse, (in the form of a what I believe is a very recent gift to all folks ingame anyway) which would make maneuvering ingame easier (all the better to meet folks with, you see). Lastly, I've suggested a range of 50K to a million (the latter being on the high end).

Even if a player were to get all three of these items, I don't believe it would harm the gaming experience. I personally believe it would enhance it.

But, I have been wrong in my life, and I invite you further to throw your hat in and come up with some ideas to encourage new players not only to try this game, but to stay in for the longer haul. What would you do to repopulate the shards?

Cheers

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

20 million for a pair of arms is probably the record high I have seen in the last month, and those arms sold for that, I presume, as they are gone from said vendor.

What would a new player want with arms worth 20m (or 10 or 5 for that matter)? They wouldn't even know why they were worth 20m. (which chances are they probably aren't given the overpriced rubbish on a lot of vendors.)

 

[Lady CaT]

Gee, I got exactly as far as I quoted you and stopped. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone read eachother's posts?

For the record, which you are most welcome, nay, invited to peruse, I have never advocated any of those exact items. I have advocated for giving some concession to new players to entice them to stay, in the form of runes/runebook (that I suggested could possibly be temporary and/or limited to most *populated areas ingame, because? Just how is a new player to make his way in our exceedingly economically unviable Sosaria if they never even meet up with other folks?) I suggested some type of *bonded horse, (in the form of a what I believe is a very recent gift to all folks ingame anyway) which would make maneuvering ingame easier (all the better to meet folks with, you see). Lastly, I've suggested a range of 50K to a million (the latter being on the high end).

Even if a player were to get all three of these items, I don't believe it would harm the gaming experience. I personally believe it would enhance it.

But, I have been wrong in my life, and I invite you further to throw your hat in and come up with some ideas to encourage new players not only to try this game, but to stay in for the longer haul. What would you do to repopulate the shards?

Cheers

What would I do to repopulate the game? I would find every way I could to market the game again, rather than leaving it to the existing player base to stay or hope that old players return. There are millions of new kids born every day. Some of the most simplistic games have millions of users playing them online. I think UO's biggest problem isn't its playability but rather the lack of any marketing over the last several years to compete for new players. People can't play or try what they don't know exists.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

@Lord GOD(GOD) hey man, i think were on the same page, id love to see perma-death in UO personally, but for the average new-player whos used to modern games, the UO start-up is just not gonna fly.

We're not at all.

The UO start up is fine. They have more now than they ever had. Just because existing players think certain things are beneath them doesn't equate to it being redundant for new players.

 

[MalagAste]

What would I do to repopulate the game? I would find every way I could to market the game again, rather than leaving it to the existing player base to stay or hope that old players return. There are millions of new kids born every day. Some of the most simplistic games have millions of users playing them online. I think UO's biggest problem isn't its playability but rather the lack of any marketing over the last several years to compete for new players. People can't play or try what they don't know exists.

You know everyone I've ever showed the game to laughs hysterically and can't get past the 90's graphics. None of them ask to play and when I tell them that I pay every month to play this they laugh even more telling me that they can get a FREE game that looks better... to which I try to argue that there is NO other game on the Market with the content and community even remotely like UO.... they just keep laughing and tell me that I should have fun whatever playing my Nintendo game.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

So - @Lord GOD(GOD) .... it is up to the player base to encourage the newb while giving ideas to the devs to make it better for all.

Strongly disagree. It's not up to us at all.

The game has gotten "harder" due to those who are at max/peak as well as the lack of population.

Again, strongly disagree.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

With the advantage of knowing what the rewards were at the end, along with some leftover goodies I had saved in my bank -- and the helpfulness of other residents I eventually found and got to know. It's very easy for some people to call these new players lazy or stupid, but that's a pretty narrow viewpoint. If you personally don't want to deal with n00bs, that's your prerogative.

So complete contrast to the cold unloving world portrayed elsewhere.

They weren't being called lazy because they are new but because they chose to give up rather than stick it out. Their lack of interest in doing so is nobody elses problem.

Plus, don't mistake my view for not dealing with noobs, I devote a huge amount of my time writing highly detailed responses to most of the topics in the Warrior, Spellcaster and Bard forums on here all the time. The huge key difference is the people who come on to the forums and ask for help are saying 'I'm stuck, but not giving up.' and therefore by my own standard are worth helping. Someone who comes in and has no idea of whats good or bad in this game but decides they do know and they can't be bothered with it to me isn't.

Broadsword's balance sheet and the future of *our game* depends on those new players coming, and staying.

Have they said this? The only people I can see playing UO are returning. All the goodwill in the world isn't going to reinvent this game as the hot new thing on the shelves.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

The way they took Despise, the game's newbie dungeon and the #1 destination for anyone trying to build a character by playing the game, and plowed it under for that stupid-ass minigame about awkwardly controlling monsters is a shining example of the devs making the game worse.

Fully agree.

 

[Merlin]

I feel bad for any new player or returning player (i.e. absence of 5+ years), who doesn't start on Atlantic or atleast one of the other more moderately populated shards (GL, Europa). A new player on a low pop shard won't stick around for long. I know the non-Atlantic sharders will disagree and probably don't want to hear it, but there is simply no reason for a newbie to be starting out where there isn't a larger and more active community.

 

[Lady CaT]

You know everyone I've ever showed the game to laughs hysterically and can't get past the 90's graphics. None of them ask to play and when I tell them that I pay every month to play this they laugh even more telling me that they can get a FREE game that looks better... to which I try to argue that there is NO other game on the Market with the content and community even remotely like UO.... they just keep laughing and tell me that I should have fun whatever playing my Nintendo game.

Yeah I can play a brand new game with better graphics too that is free. But like you I don't. Also I don't like everything my friends like either. And I often think they make poor choices about the games they play. That does not mean there are not other people in the world who are exactly like us. But EA/Broadsword will never find them if they doesn't advertise. Quite clearly hundreds of thousands of people played and liked UO at one time. And we both know that many players have returned over and over throughout the years. Bad games don't generally have that happen.

You could morph the old UO into some hot new graphics, engine and free to play model too. But I'm sure you will lose a lot of the existing player base when the game no longer feels like what they liked to play. And yes new players could possibly flock to the new version. But I'm not sure how many would do that if EA/Broadsword doesn't advertise it.

 

[MalagAste]

Yeah I can play a brand new game with better graphics too that is free. But like you I don't. Also I don't like everything my friends like either. And I often think they make poor choices about the games they play. That does not mean there are not other people in the world who are exactly like us. But EA/Broadsword will never find them if they doesn't advertise. Quite clearly hundreds of thousands of people played and liked UO at one time. And we both know that many players have returned over and over throughout the years. Bad games don't generally have that happen.

You could morph the old UO into some hot new graphics, engine and free to play model too. But I'm sure you will lose a lot of the existing player base when the game no longer feels like what they liked to play. And yes new players could possibly flock to the new version. But I'm not sure how many would do that if EA/Broadsword doesn't advertise it.

Sadly though a lot of players I know who return come back play awhile then remember why they quit.... generally because of the bad behavior of a few bad apples, they got hacked, they lost something due to some bug, the bug that drove them insane before is still here... and paging a GM can take days or weeks... They feel lost and too far behind and want to do everything everyone else is doing but they don't have all the expansions..... they can't use the planters so they bought one but now it won't work because they don't have the Rustic pack, They want to join us for Pirate hunting but don't have the High Seas, they want to wear the same armor and such we do but don't have the SA..... and to catch all that up would take 100 bucks or more.. and they don't want to pay that... and the graphics suck.. and by the look of the new art that isn't about to improve. Yes like the new tiles and such but once again I'll point out that all the new art lacks TEXTURE!!!!! They are all flat colors painted on flatly with very little depth, shading, texture or even in regards to clothing... creasing and wrinkling one would associate with a garment being worn...

There I said it.... no more tongue biting this is really starting to irk me... I can drawn an outline on a paperdoll in paint and fill it in with a solid color and overlay a pattern too.... but it would NOT be something I could call a dress. and to be honest it's TOO BIG and looks oversized.... but perhaps thats because it lacks texture and shading... and proper perspectives.... etc.....

 

[Gamer_Goblin]

Fully agree.

The only thing not on Haven that was in Despise is Lizardmen. You could easily replace this with Ettins. Except for the Spined Leather as someone mentioned.

 

[Conleth]

What would a new player want with arms worth 20m (or 10 or 5 for that matter)? They wouldn't even know why they were worth 20m. (which chances are they probably aren't given the overpriced rubbish on a lot of vendors.)

I have no idea what a new player would do with those arms, probably just lose them. I've no idea what they're worth; I suppose exactly what they sell for, ay?

(If folks here think that I'd advocate giving new players 20m arms or armor, then I've not made my point.)
Cheers

Edited to add:

They have more now than they ever had.

@Lord GOD(GOD) New players do have ten times what I know I started with; 100 gold. I think many folks agree that given our new economy, 1000 gold is not enough. Not when taken into account the vast landmass to travel before potentially seeing another gamer, not when having armour that has durability that needs to be powdered (at a cost of 100K plus per jar), etc. And particularly not when it's difficult on many shards to even find another player.

They weren't being called lazy because they are new but because they chose to give up rather than stick it out....

@Lord GOD(GOD) Are we talking about a job in the coal mines, or an enjoyable video game?

Cheers

 

[Elenni]

So complete contrast to the cold unloving world portrayed elsewhere.

Honestly I'm not sure I read anyone saying that UO (the community) was cold and unloving. In fact, most folks noted that it's the community that's helped them get on their way, in lieu of an adequate start-up or guided scenario*. The problem is finding those players to help; it took me days to come across anyone on my shard. They're not in Haven, and they're also not in any of the cities you can start from -- everyone who's left hangs in Luna, when they hang anywhere.

To be clear, I am not and never have advocated giving new players more "stuff" or uber powers to start, not even to bridge the gap in a game where the average resident has been playing for 8-10 years. Broadsword -- like any game company who wants to survive -- has a tough row to hoe with two completely opposite priorities: 1) keep the loyal customer base happy by continually adding new content, harder spawn and better stuff so they don't cap out, get bored and move on, and 2) keep the game relevant, engaging, and on-level for new players, so they don't get overwhelmed or imagine they have to play for 5 years to get out of the noob zone. There is a huge disparity between those two audiences and they don't see eye to eye.

I think it's GREAT that you and so many others spend time answering questions on Stratics and other sites, and write up content. And maybe that's the only solution that's really likely to come about -- more and updated write-ups -- but there are a few in-game ideas that have been mentioned that would help those players get oriented. They're not things that are going to help you, and I know we all walked to school uphill both ways in the snow "back in the day," but it's a modern world now -- there's this thing called a bus and they seem like a pretty sensible idea, and I really think they're here to stay

The world changes and people's perspectives on "normal" change; sometimes we need to allow for that and adapt for it.

*caveat on this, as I believe the 3d client does have a guided walk-through for new accounts, but I couldn't get through it and reverted to the 2d client. Mea culpa perhaps, as I'm not sure if the problem was the walk-through or that I'm an old fogie set in my ways sometimes too...

 

[Gamer_Goblin]

I have spent some time in New Haven for curiosity a few years back, when it came out and I don't know but I could never get myself to like it : I preferred Haven
Never went back there

And yes, I saw for Despise, was my fav dungeon

Hope they are not going to destroy all of our beautiful cities (don't care what they are doing in Luna though )

Even Magincia... well yes I'm having alot of rubble (even alot of what I have is not even on display) but apart from the pet vendors I see nothing interesting in New Magincia ; they could have put the pets vendors as an addition to Papua for ex, just saying...

I honestly had a lot of trouble reading and understanding this post. Can you clarify your points? I'm interested in what you say, I just don't understand.

 

[Lord Frodo]

About Steam...

UO will not ever get onto Steam until they take control of the Player Account system (which, by the by, is still reading EAMythic and is still a nightmare to take care of for people wanting to reclaim old accounts). Yes, UO has received the Greenlight, but the account system needs to get revamped. One of the things about Steam is that people can pay for things with their Steam Wallet.... that is no where near possible with the current account system for UO.

When Broadsword revamps the Player Account system and gets it all under control, I expect the Steam integration to be next, then we will see what happens.

If this is holding STREAM back then it will never happen because EA would have to give up the purse strings and that will never happen.

 

[Conleth]

Honestly I'm not sure I read anyone saying that UO (the community) was cold and unloving. In fact, most folks noted that it's the community that's helped them get on their way, in lieu of an adequate start-up or guided scenario*. The problem is finding those players to help; it took me days to come across anyone on my shard. They're not in Haven, and they're also not in any of the cities you can start from -- everyone who's left hangs in Luna, when they hang anywhere....

Any chance you've logged into Oceania?

If it weren't for the UO Community, I wouldn't have bothered returning. Agreed.

Cheers