Worst case scenario you can always just do your write-up, post it in the Talk section of the appropriate article, and have someone else do the formatting for pushing it live.
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Wonder how many of the whiz kids who write in 'modern' high level languages these days could handle machine language? They'd likely
be lost. They need an interpreter to even talk to their computers and make them obey. 
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That's true as well, I'm sure some of our editors would be more than happy to assist, and if we do decide for certain a Wiki is the direction we wish to go, I'm sure some of the guides that were written on the forums over the years will have their authors contacted about possibly converting them as well.
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Wonder how many of the whiz kids who write in 'modern' high level languages these days could handle machine language? They'd likely
I know I couldn't. Growing up in the Rural South I don't recall ever touching a computer til I was in 7th Grade, that would put me somewhere between 12 and 13 years old. The school system simply didn't have the funding for them. When we first began learning about Computer Programming everything was in BASIC, you know.....
Code:
10 PRINT "Hello World"
20 GOTO 10
RUN*** Before I forget, Imagine a bunch of Teens excited about playing Oregon Trail ****
As long as it was HEAVILY modded and proven before it was released it would be great, there is a wealth of info out there if it is allowed to be used.
Programing 8 bit machines was so much *(^&^($%^%()(* fun. 10101010 LOLWonder how many of the whiz kids who write in 'modern' high level languages these days could handle machine language? They'd likely
Nah, heavy moderation is bad.
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The Wiki Plugin we've been looking at and considering is rather well vetted in the Xenforo Community. It's used to good effect on a number of sites and had the best selection of management options available of those that are on the market. We're not looking at these things blindly, we're doing our homework to make sure we find additions that we can put into use for the community that not only allow folks to get the most use of them, but we can set up with the least risk of abuse.
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Yep the way it's planned is any edits or initial pages would require review and approval before they were visible to the community. This keeps the trolls and people simply wanting to deface a page at bay as far as the community is concerned.
Depends how open the UO one is. If we, the players, can add things to it then I don't see why Stratics needs to duplicate the info. If it's only pages that the devs put on though, then it'll be nothing like the amount of info a Stratics player driven one would be able to have added.
This is what I was thinking as well. We really need to hear specific details of how the Dev's plan to implement the official wiki.
Of course, I was also wondering why Stratics wanted to create a wiki, when UO Guide is already there (unless you're just looking to drive web traffic - fair enough. Business, competition, and all...). However, as Nexus has explained it, the proposed Stratics wiki and UO Guide would have a significant enough difference in functionality, they would really be two different animals.
Now however, an official wiki featured prominently on the front page of the games official website.....
Why would we as a community need more than one wiki at that point?
Again though, this is UO, what the Dev's have planned may not be quite what we are expecting. Better wait and see.
The snipet from the newsletter says "Player Wiki". Good question though as to do "we" get to edit it, or is it just there for "us" to use.
Until you mentioned it, I hadn't thought of it that way.
That's not what he was saying
We already have UOGuide, and Petra's Guide which both serve the same purpose as the proposed wiki and both are incomplete and/or outdated. Perhaps those that are eager to contribute to Stratics wiki should instead help out with existing guides? Just a thought.
My thoughts on this as well. How many different Wiki solutions does UO need?
Just one if it's done properly
As much misinformation as I've seen on Stratics, I'd question everything anyways. Some of you still think eating affects spell casting success and gains.
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That's sort of the point, it's really difficult for a small number of people to update everything, a wiki would allow the community to submit updated information as well.
One of the biggest problems: Most UO Wikis are only written in english. There are a lot of other languages spoken in UO!
So there's my hope the UO.com Wiki will be also in different languages - I won't contribute to another new Wiki than the official UO.com one anyway.
So there's my hope the UO.com Wiki will be also in different languages - I won't contribute to another new Wiki than the official UO.com one anyway.
Why not?
Didn't you quit anyhow?
Just for clarification. Petra's Pages is not a wiki. There's only one fool writing those pages. This one.
For all intents and purposes, yes. I gave away my large house and all its contents, including gifts and vet rewards - just about everything that couldn't be stored in a classic 7x7. Even my bank boxes are almost empty now. I have not closed my account though. If I decide to actually become active again, I'd like to have the account still open and ready.
Sorry, I assumed that if someone offered to contribute, you would not turn them down.
ah, well no, I wouldn't. But that doesn't make it a wiki - they wouldn't be able to simply log in and add stuff. My pages aren't done in a wiki, or even wordpress or drupal, they're done in basic html and css - allowing me to learn and use some nice css effects such as the mouse out overlays on the maps.
First and foremost, you are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Secondly and lastly but not nonwordly.
The short thought: Ron, if you want a wiki, build it and it will proliferate.
The long thought: There are two sides of a gaming wiki.
The side UO will take, is just the facts. They won't give much more than basic info to allow people to explore the world themselves which I think is good.
The other side is comprised of guides to utilize the facts.
The most important thing is the skeleton of the wiki and how deep you want it to go and how looping you want it to be.
UOGuide has this a bit where there are links embedded in pages to pages that have links to pages. (yah) But often doesn't satiate the need of information.
Stratics currently has links to whole pages at the top to other whole pages of great guides but everything is so separated and not linked.
If the two could be melded without overlapping information and done in a consistent format. It would be great!
As the game is almost able to go to R rated movies without an escort .... There is nothing that truly can be considered unique or copied since it literally comes from the game through our brains out our fingers and yes, there are some formulas that have been given by the devs to sooth the number crunchers, but as long as credit is given If it truly is unique like a guide how to build a sunflower. (not sure how in depth the wiki would get) Stratics would reaffirm itself as the official place for UO.
I don't send people to UO other than to download and buy the game. Everything mostly comes from my brain and googling if needed because I don't know who will have the information I can understand. For example: I am not a weapon/shield/armour crafter as I can't grasp the numbers. For those things I just pass on.
There is a learning curve for UO and as long as the wiki can take someone from newbie to gandmaster in knowledge of the game I think it would be worth it!!
Secondly and lastly but not nonwordly.
The short thought: Ron, if you want a wiki, build it and it will proliferate.
The long thought: There are two sides of a gaming wiki.
The side UO will take, is just the facts. They won't give much more than basic info to allow people to explore the world themselves which I think is good.
The other side is comprised of guides to utilize the facts.
The most important thing is the skeleton of the wiki and how deep you want it to go and how looping you want it to be.
UOGuide has this a bit where there are links embedded in pages to pages that have links to pages. (yah
) But often doesn't satiate the need of information.Stratics currently has links to whole pages at the top to other whole pages of great guides but everything is so separated and not linked.
If the two could be melded without overlapping information and done in a consistent format. It would be great!
As the game is almost able to go to R rated movies without an escort ....
There is nothing that truly can be considered unique or copied since it literally comes from the game through our brains out our fingers and yes, there are some formulas that have been given by the devs to sooth the number crunchers, but as long as credit is given If it truly is unique like a guide how to build a sunflower. (not sure how in depth the wiki would get) Stratics would reaffirm itself as the official place for UO. I don't send people to UO other than to download and buy the game. Everything mostly comes from my brain and googling if needed because I don't know who will have the information I can understand. For example: I am not a weapon/shield/armour crafter as I can't grasp the numbers. For those things I just pass on.
There is a learning curve for UO and as long as the wiki can take someone from newbie to gandmaster in knowledge of the game I think it would be worth it!!
Since I'm not staff anymore and you've made this a public issue...
I love wikis. Wikis are awesome. It should have been done years ago before the first major migration and Petra (bless her heart) spent all that time moving things manually.
We found a "happy medium" to migrate from the old/broken/outdated wordpress site into a more modern (and yes, wiki-esque) wordpress with what I had started, but didn't have the time or staff power to get everything moved by when you wanted. Granted those that did help (Larisa, Tamias, Giggles and others) were doing the best they could, you could still look at the site and see the majority of the stuff was having to be hand moved.
Moving all current content into a wiki will be, as I noted several times, a harder chore. EVERYTHING will have to be moved into wiki-markup. Good luck with that. I've yet to see a tool that will translate between html and wiki markup cleanly.
Not to mention, you will essentially be throwing away plugins the community paid for (those nice google maps will go *poof*). But whatever.... not my problem or project anymore.
The staff (if any left) however will be hard pressed to learn wiki markup to transfer all the content from the existing wordpress sites in a timely manner. Yes, you could rely (rather heavily) on community, but to avoid the trolls and such, you need to proofread, edit and such what not. That will be a lot more work than just doing the work yourself (and this I know all too well - as well).
Too much will be (and has been) lost over the years by those who just cannot make up their minds as to what to use and how to implement. Yes, I gave up. Tired of spinning wheels and not going anywhere - all the rubber got wasted.
I love wikis. Wikis are awesome. It should have been done years ago before the first major migration and Petra (bless her heart) spent all that time moving things manually.
We found a "happy medium" to migrate from the old/broken/outdated wordpress site into a more modern (and yes, wiki-esque) wordpress with what I had started, but didn't have the time or staff power to get everything moved by when you wanted. Granted those that did help (Larisa, Tamias, Giggles and others) were doing the best they could, you could still look at the site and see the majority of the stuff was having to be hand moved.
Moving all current content into a wiki will be, as I noted several times, a harder chore. EVERYTHING will have to be moved into wiki-markup. Good luck with that. I've yet to see a tool that will translate between html and wiki markup cleanly.
Not to mention, you will essentially be throwing away plugins the community paid for (those nice google maps will go *poof*). But whatever.... not my problem or project anymore.
The staff (if any left) however will be hard pressed to learn wiki markup to transfer all the content from the existing wordpress sites in a timely manner. Yes, you could rely (rather heavily) on community, but to avoid the trolls and such, you need to proofread, edit and such what not. That will be a lot more work than just doing the work yourself (and this I know all too well - as well).
Too much will be (and has been) lost over the years by those who just cannot make up their minds as to what to use and how to implement. Yes, I gave up. Tired of spinning wheels and not going anywhere - all the rubber got wasted.
For clarification, if we do implement a wiki, it will be using Xenforo add-on that uses BBCode (same as making a normal post) and not mediawiki and wiki markup. Starting a wiki is also an independent decision from removing map access. There is no plan to take away the maps plugin or other features on WordPress.
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Game ON !
And what a damn good fool it be doing it. Keep up the outstanding work, you web site is at the top of all my UO Links now.
Returning player here. Although I've not been a recent regular contributor to Stratics or the forums, perhaps there's some worthwhile perspective from one who played in UO's "hay-day," and is now trying to remember everything + catch up on what's new.
There are some great websites out there with amazing and helpful content (including this one, at the top of the list!) -- but there's also a LOT that I discover has been lost over the years, as people have left or lost interest in updating as the game evolved. There's content I used to refer to on Stratics that is no longer available as well. That's understandable and inevitable for any 3rd-party / independent website, or as sites move to new content management systems and the resources for content migration dwindle.
A lot of that lost content was invaluable information or history, though; I mourn the loss and wish there was some way to retrieve it. And I wonder when the next player-owned site will go dark and *that* content will be lost for good. It's made me wish that perhaps there'd been more cut and paste rather than less -- of course with accreditation and links, always -- although understandably that's a touchy subject with inherent issues.
Leaving that aside, though, it occurs to me that there is one site that has a vested interest in building and maintaining UO content for as long as the game still exists...UO.com. I notice they've included a Player Wiki on the new website and it says they're migrating old content...so of course I wonder if that isn't the best place for efforts to be focused now. Since it is defined as a "player" wiki, perhaps the community could influence its structure and content guidelines, to ensure that content is relevant, easily accessible, and accurate?
There are some great websites out there with amazing and helpful content (including this one, at the top of the list!) -- but there's also a LOT that I discover has been lost over the years, as people have left or lost interest in updating as the game evolved. There's content I used to refer to on Stratics that is no longer available as well. That's understandable and inevitable for any 3rd-party / independent website, or as sites move to new content management systems and the resources for content migration dwindle.
A lot of that lost content was invaluable information or history, though; I mourn the loss and wish there was some way to retrieve it. And I wonder when the next player-owned site will go dark and *that* content will be lost for good. It's made me wish that perhaps there'd been more cut and paste rather than less -- of course with accreditation and links, always -- although understandably that's a touchy subject with inherent issues.
Leaving that aside, though, it occurs to me that there is one site that has a vested interest in building and maintaining UO content for as long as the game still exists...UO.com. I notice they've included a Player Wiki on the new website and it says they're migrating old content...so of course I wonder if that isn't the best place for efforts to be focused now. Since it is defined as a "player" wiki, perhaps the community could influence its structure and content guidelines, to ensure that content is relevant, easily accessible, and accurate?
See the thread about the new site and some of the conversation regarding the "Player Wiki" at UO.com.
Some insightful words there.
Sorry for the delayed response but do you have any links for the specific threads you're referring to? (Not sure if you meant the new UO.com site or new features on Stratics...
Thanks!
So any adjustments needed to be made to existing pages you have there will need to wait?
eg today I did some vvv for the first time in about 4 mths and had forgotten how to access the leaderboard. Well no site I checked had the info, checked player context menu, checked vvv gump that pops up when you enter town, checked gump that pops up at end of battle, couldnt find it anywhere. I knew it was something 'simple' but darned if I could remember how.
I ended up googling "how do you access vice v virtue leaderboard in ultima online" and followed a link there to find the 'simple' info that to access the leaderboard you find it in the 'guild' gump. This info, simple as it is, isn't included in the current information on the wiki page that deals with VVV.
was a very frustrating 20 mins of looking around.
eg today I did some vvv for the first time in about 4 mths and had forgotten how to access the leaderboard. Well no site I checked had the info, checked player context menu, checked vvv gump that pops up when you enter town, checked gump that pops up at end of battle, couldnt find it anywhere. I knew it was something 'simple' but darned if I could remember how.
I ended up googling "how do you access vice v virtue leaderboard in ultima online" and followed a link there to find the 'simple' info that to access the leaderboard you find it in the 'guild' gump. This info, simple as it is, isn't included in the current information on the wiki page that deals with VVV.
was a very frustrating 20 mins of looking around.
We are pretty close to releasing our wiki, so you will be able to submit that information soon.So any adjustments needed to be made to existing pages you have there will need to wait?
eg today I did some vvv for the first time in about 4 mths and had forgotten how to access the leaderboard. Well no site I checked had the info, checked player context menu, checked vvv gump that pops up when you enter town, checked gump that pops up at end of battle, couldnt find it anywhere. I knew it was something 'simple' but darned if I could remember how.
I ended up googling "how do you access vice v virtue leaderboard in ultima online" and followed a link there to find the 'simple' info that to access the leaderboard you find it in the 'guild' gump. This info, simple as it is, isn't included in the current information on the wiki page that deals with VVV.
was a very frustrating 20 mins of looking around.
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How did I manage to miss this thread?
UO already has two wikis already, UOGuide and the new Official one that Kyronix appears to be working on. We don't need a third.
How much duplication of effort needs to be done before people realize its somewhat pointless make-work?
UO already has two wikis already, UOGuide and the new Official one that Kyronix appears to be working on. We don't need a third.
How much duplication of effort needs to be done before people realize its somewhat pointless make-work?
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It's part of a longer range game plan, and the reasoning has little to do with the other wiki's that are out there. Right now UO content for Stratics is extremely fragmented, content for the site is divided between 3 different websites, uo.stratics.com, uo2.stratics.com, and stratics.com. The long term goal is to get all of the content (or as much as possible) migrated onto a single platform. We experimented with using Wordpress as the base for a single platform about a year ago, and found out it was going to be a nightmare to manage because the support for the plugins we would have needed was flaky at best, non-existent at worst, or they caused conflicts with each other. We scrapped that, and started building Ravenant on Xenforo, and realized it was a much better platform for what we had envisioned. Thus the addition of the Articles system here, the upcoming Wiki, the new editor for making posts in order to make creating wiki pages and articles easier, etc.How did I manage to miss this thread?
UO already has two wikis already, UOGuide and the new Official one that Kyronix appears to be working on. We don't need a third.
How much duplication of effort needs to be done before people realize its somewhat pointless make-work?
It's very far from being pointless make-work, it's largely about unifying the site, making it easier for the community to find what they want, without having to navigate off one site onto another, and giving the community a chance invest, if they wish, in the site by having an easy means for them to contribute content, either through Articles, or updates to content that will be on the Wiki.
I kinda like the idea of talking to Mesanna about getting the info into their wiki.
Petra and many old timers of the site contributed greatly to the wiki-able content on Stratics. further the old UO Herald content belonged to the official site originally - why not strike up the convo with Mesanna about that?
But then, that's just me.
Petra and many old timers of the site contributed greatly to the wiki-able content on Stratics. further the old UO Herald content belonged to the official site originally - why not strike up the convo with Mesanna about that?
But then, that's just me.
I think that all things UO should be discussed and shared between all sites and persons entrusted with preserving and updating information related to the game. I also like the idea of Stratics being a leader in this and having a wiki located on their site, mainly because Stratics has been the central go-to place for most of us over the years, and probably the most reliable overall (since they are less likely to be as dependent upon the whims of EA).