Remove Veterinary. A Suggestion.

[Flutter]

Hear me out before you douse me in gasoline.
We all want to be able to heal and res our pets. These abilities can be added to Taming and Lore respectively. (ie: if you have Taming you can heal your pets if you have Lore you can also res your pet)
Remember a while ago (possibly before your time) Discord was not discord at all. Discordance used to be a skill called "Enticement". Enticement made the target slowly walk towards you. It didn't really have purpose and was replaced with Discordance sometime around UO:R (? not sure on the time frame my guildmates tell me I am terrible at remembering the order of things that happen in UO lol).

Vet can then be changed to another supplemental skill that could assist tamers. Perhaps a skill that keeps tamable creatures from aggroing you. This is just a suggestion, I am sure you all could come up with some great ideas.

This change could also allow for the removal of the res timers for pets when using the NPC or potion.
Taming isn't the end all be all of the UO world anymore, especially in PvM. Taming used to be an insanely powerful skill. Now you can kill things faster with a melee bushido chivalry character.

This suggestion is just me daydreaming about UO. It isn't something I have all planned out and have spent a lot of time on, so if there's a huge downside to this idea fire it at me. To me it seems like a good solution to a lot of little "annoyances".
Is it worth emailing @Mesanna about? Or is it a really bad idea for some reason.

 

[WhiteWitch]

Animal lore always stuck me as the charlatan of the 3 taming related skills, just a way to make using a powerful pet need 200+ points as taming alone is simply useless without it.

As you mentioned, taming is not the all powerful thing it once was, which is good really as the game has better balance now, removing vet is surely a nerf as I'm not sure any other current type of healing in the game could keep a GD alive vs a paragon bally/AW.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

If you could heal and rez without vet, that leaves the slot open for anything, not just a revamped vet. Your biggest objections will come from the PvPers objecting to the extra damage tamers will now be able to dish out with an extra skill slot, won't it?

 

[WhiteWitch]

Pretty sure no PvP tamer has veterinary skill anyway, Id stone mine in favour of resist whenever I took mine to VvV.

 

[Victim of Siege]

There probably aren't many left with. I rarely use it on my PvM template anymore.

 

[Nexus]

Hear me out before you douse me in gasoline.
We all want to be able to heal and res our pets. These abilities can be added to Taming and Lore respectively. (ie: if you have Taming you can heal your pets if you have Lore you can also res your pet)
Remember a while ago (possibly before your time) Discord was not discord at all. Discordance used to be a skill called "Enticement". Enticement made the target slowly walk towards you. It didn't really have purpose and was replaced with Discordance sometime around UO:R (? not sure on the time frame my guildmates tell me I am terrible at remembering the order of things that happen in UO lol).

Vet can then be changed to another supplemental skill that could assist tamers. Perhaps a skill that keeps tamable creatures from aggroing you. This is just a suggestion, I am sure you all could come up with some great ideas.

This change could also allow for the removal of the res timers for pets when using the NPC or potion.
Taming isn't the end all be all of the UO world anymore, especially in PvM. Taming used to be an insanely powerful skill. Now you can kill things faster with a melee bushido chivalry character.

This suggestion is just me daydreaming about UO. It isn't something I have all planned out and have spent a lot of time on, so if there's a huge downside to this idea fire it at me. To me it seems like a good solution to a lot of little "annoyances".
Is it worth emailing @Mesanna about? Or is it a really bad idea for some reason.

I wouldn't support removing it, it's to help act as a balance with Warriors. Warriors mostly likely have a Weapon Skill, Anatomy, and Healing. That's 300 points, Vet being on Tamers works the same way. Since the creature is a tamers weapon, the other two skills, Lore and Vet, are necessary to equal the skill point expenditure.

 

[OREOGL]

Pretty sure no PvP tamer has veterinary skill anyway, Id stone mine in favour of resist whenever I took mine to VvV.

Exactly, which is why we don't want this...

The trade off is once their pet is dead theyre toast because they cant rez it. Now think they can rez their banes, dreads, or what have you at will with no repercussion..

I'll Pass!

 

[TimberWolf]

Actually flutter this time you nailed it. I agree completely with the caveat that they remove gargoyles ability to fly with a grt drag in tow. When players remove it from their pvp/pvp templates regularly....it is time to rethink the skill. Most tamers are Terribly out classed by warriors now.

For example I attacked a afk warrior the other day ( as a joke) with a fully trained 4.x cu's hide if I hadn't intervened the pet would have been dead in less then 30 seconds....I literally had to stand there healing my pet for around 20-30 seconds just to get the character redlined. (At which point I mounted the cu and stopped) I cu isn't a great pvp pet...but come on .....

I seldom play tamers....just on my t-mapper. I love my warrior class. But even I admit the poor tamers need some love.

 

[Gamer_Goblin]

Why Vet and not Lore? Just remove Lore. Not that I agree... Just thought it odd.

 

[Merlin]

Here's a quick curious template question:

My only tamer is a mage tamer. I run taming, lore, vet, magery, eval, resist and med (I get about 100 or so points from jewels). I've been contemplating putting spellweaving on the template and removing either resist or vet. If I remove vet, I was assuming I could just use those pet rez potions.

So two part question: if I were to put spellweaving on the template, which would you remove: resist or vet? And second part is this, if I were to remove BOTH resist and vet, I could put two skills on... the first being spellweaving, the second being.... what else?

 

[Luc of Legends]

As someone who loves her tamer but hate that my template is sooooo tight. I agree we need to lose one skill but not Vet. I love that i can use vet, mage heal and my sw heal on my pet. I know more peeps that don't use Vet because of the cramped template.

Only reason i would say no is because i would loose a crap load slots in my stable.. i think i have max slot with my 120 lore, vet and taming.

 

[Luc of Legends]

Here's a quick curious template question:

My only tamer is a mage tamer. I run taming, lore, vet, magery, eval, resist and med (I get about 100 or so points from jewels). I've been contemplating putting spellweaving on the template and removing either resist or vet. If I remove vet, I was assuming I could just use those pet rez potions.

So two part question: if I were to put spellweaving on the template, which would you remove: resist or vet? And second part is this, if I were to remove BOTH resist and vet, I could put two skills on... the first being spellweaving, the second being.... what else?

I remove resist... but that was me..

if you remove both.. maybe add mystic

 

[Nexus]

I remove resist... but that was me..

if you remove both.. maybe add mystic

Isn't Mysticism's damage augmented by Focus though?

 

[Luc of Legends]

I believe you can use mediation or focus.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

Here's a quick curious template question:

My only tamer is a mage tamer. I run taming, lore, vet, magery, eval, resist and med (I get about 100 or so points from jewels). I've been contemplating putting spellweaving on the template and removing either resist or vet. If I remove vet, I was assuming I could just use those pet rez potions.

So two part question: if I were to put spellweaving on the template, which would you remove: resist or vet? And second part is this, if I were to remove BOTH resist and vet, I could put two skills on... the first being spellweaving, the second being.... what else?

My Mage/Tamer has SW. I have no resist at all, but have found that he can deal out a lot of damage. Both with the greater, and casting spells. It works well for me in PVM.

 

[DJAd]

I like the idea but there are far more other skills that could do with a revamp before vet.

 

[Danpal]

Who knows what coming with the new expansion coming out maybe tamers will get a revamp to there skills. Only people that know can't talk about it and if they do they get kicked out of the testing.

 

[swampjumper]

Sorry I dont agree. I play as a vet irez any and all pets on all the shards i play its the core of my tamers I usually run taming animal lore vet with mage med and lastly spellweaving . The ones who have dropped there vet come to me to rez there pets . The Dr is allways in plus it goes to my overflowing stall space no I wont stand for it at all.

 

[TimberWolf]

Here's a quick curious template question:

My only tamer is a mage tamer. I run taming, lore, vet, magery, eval, resist and med (I get about 100 or so points from jewels). I've been contemplating putting spellweaving on the template and removing either resist or vet. If I remove vet, I was assuming I could just use those pet rez potions.

So two part question: if I were to put spellweaving on the template, which would you remove: resist or vet? And second part is this, if I were to remove BOTH resist and vet, I could put two skills on... the first being spellweaving, the second being.... what else?

Add Ninja,....then you can switch to wolf form to out run the gargoyles as you both drag Greater Dragons around!

 

[MalagAste]

Isn't Mysticism's damage augmented by Focus though?

Yes it is but only for certain spells. Most of the spells one uses as a Tamer don't need the Focus bonus. I'm not using it to cast and RC since I have pets. Mostly I like it for the healing and removing curses from my pet. It's also great doing the area damage spells since magery lacks anything decent for area effect.

Infact I'd do away with Magery if Mysticism had some sort of mark/recall/gate... Spellweaving isn't bad either but I hate gaining that.

As someone with over 20 tamers I can say its certainly a nifty idea..... but like others I keep Vet for the slots. Some only have GM vet with the rest on a set of Jewels I use just when I really need it. Most all my tamers only go to 115 and have the rest on Jewels or use that Talisman for the last 5.

Personally the whole tamer system IMO needs a revamp. Most pets now are pretty much useless since almost everything you fight kills them in .4 seconds you don't even have a chance to heal them. If something sneezes on your pet it dies. That's why almost all tamers use GDs because they don't die in .4 seconds to everything. Even the CuSidhe with it's healing is pretty lame anymore since it's not only slow as molasses in the wintertime but it takes it so long to heal that well... it too dies in .4 seconds. A Majority of pets need to not lose 1/2 their HP and such when you tame them. If the CuSidhe didn't drop by over 1/2 when you tamed it the thing might be useful again.

But that's me.

 

[Sunseri]

Only 200-240 points to control a greater dragon and keep it alive? That's a bad idea. There is not a more powerful partial template in the game. Another poster has stated that the chivalry-bushido melee template is more capable than the tamer template. That's how it should be. 720 points dedicated to a full template should always out-survive and out-damage the tamers 360(max) skill points. Also the tamer partial template requires no stat balance at all, while if I want to heal fast with the healing skill, I have to boost my dex to as high as possible. Preferably over 130 or better.

I am not trying to come across as anti-tamer here but I still remember when tamers were not limited by control slots. Have you ever been hunting in the old school dungeons and a gate opens and a tamer pops in with a full battalion of dragons? It was game over for anyone unlucky enough to get caught up in that mess. And remember when Cu's first came out and tamers were whining and crying that Necro's could also tame them when using the wolf familiar? To me, tamers in general showed a lot of selfishness during that time.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Isn't Mysticism's damage augmented by Focus though?

I believe you can use mediation or focus.

Mysticism requires either Focus or Imbuing to increase the spells effect:


Mysticism is a body of magic first used by the Gargoyle Race. It was added with the Stygian Abyss expansion and may be learned by all races, not just gargoyles. Similar to Spellweaving and Necromancy, Mysticism has its own unique set of magic spells cast from a Spellbook.

Battle Focus and Imbuing augment the power of certain Mysticism spells. Evaluate Intelligence once augmented as well, but was swapped for Focus with Publish 64 in February 2010

 

[MalagAste]

Mysticism requires either Focus or Imbuing to increase the spells effect:


Mysticism is a body of magic first used by the Gargoyle Race. It was added with the Stygian Abyss expansion and may be learned by all races, not just gargoyles. Similar to Spellweaving and Necromancy, Mysticism has its own unique set of magic spells cast from a Spellbook.

Battle Focus and Imbuing augment the power of certain Mysticism spells. Evaluate Intelligence once augmented as well, but was swapped for Focus with Publish 64 in February 2010

NO I think you need to read where it only applies to certain spells I think the ones that do Phyiscal damage like the RC and Animated Weapon.

 

[MalagAste]

Only 200-240 points to control a greater dragon and keep it alive? That's a bad idea. There is not a more powerful partial template in the game. Another poster has stated that the chivalry-bushido melee template is more capable than the tamer template. That's how it should be. 720 points dedicated to a full template should always out-survive and out-damage the tamers 360(max) skill points. Also the tamer partial template requires no stat balance at all, while if I want to heal fast with the healing skill, I have to boost my dex to as high as possible. Preferably over 130 or better.

I am not trying to come across as anti-tamer here but I still remember when tamers were not limited by control slots. Have you ever been hunting in the old school dungeons and a gate opens and a tamer pops in with a full battalion of dragons? It was game over for anyone unlucky enough to get caught up in that mess. And remember when Cu's first came out and tamers were whining and crying that Necro's could also tame them when using the wolf familiar? To me, tamers in general showed a lot of selfishness during that time.

Just my 2 cents.

Well your 2 cents don't know much. First off you have any idea how much damage a GD actually does to most things? About 35. Sometimes it gets lucky and does 60 or so.... It's SLOW too usually doing about 5 or 10 damage... occasionally 35 to 60... but rarely. The "power" of a GD is in that it's not dead in .4 seconds. It's a nice tank while you do something else to kill the mob. Any mage, dexer or whatever can outdamage a GD 10 fold in half the time. It's what you put WITH the template that does the damage.

 

[Gamer_Goblin]

NO I think you need to read where it only applies to certain spells I think the ones that do Phyiscal damage like the RC and Animated Weapon.

I'm not sure if this is in agreement with you or not, but Focus OR Imbuing is the verbiage on UO Guide and it does appear to only apply to certain Mysticism spells.

Below is just an example of one. Nether Cyclone an Enchant Weapon are the only other two I see.

"Summons a colossal stone titan that selects a Target to attack based off its intelligence and proximity. The Rising Colossus disappears after a set amount of time. The Rising Colossus' stats, skills, and duration are determined by the Caster's Focus or Imbuing (whichever is greater) , and Mysticism skills. Requires 5 pet control slots."

 

[Flutter]

Thank you for the interesting comments! I like the open conversation.
The reason I said do something else with Vet is because most (if not all) pvp tamers stone vet to pvp for more usefull skill and also since all Lore does is help tamer commands be followed (vs ignored) it gives Lore more meaning to be able to res your pet with it.
I didn't think of the stable slots, I really believe a tamer should just have x amount of slots period. It's not the same game it was in 1999.
Please continue with the feedback! You've got some good ideas. I hope the team is watching and thinking about this. I miss playing my tamer.

 

[Zosimus]

Taming should just be able to tame the creature.

Animal Lore should be able to lore the animal and be able to heal the creature.

Vet should be scrapped. Most players anymore just throw greater heal (at least they did 5 years ago) on their pets because of the area damage some of the bosses do.

 

[Luc of Legends]

Taming should just be able to tame the creature.

Animal Lore should be able to lore the animal and be able to heal the creature.

Vet should be scrapped. Most players anymore just throw greater heal (at least they did 5 years ago) on their pets because of the area damage some of the bosses do.

Right, I know more monsters i have use GH and SW heal because I can't vet. I just wish you could rez a pet with Rez spell. If you could do that then you could possible safely remove vet. The main reason i keep vet is rezing my pet and using vet with monsters i can.

 

[Zosimus]

I should of added To Animal lore skill not just be able to heal and all that but to rez also.

 

[WhiteWitch]

I am not trying to come across as anti-tamer here but I still remember when tamers were not limited by control slots. Have you ever been hunting in the old school dungeons and a gate opens and a tamer pops in with a full battalion of dragons? It was game over for anyone unlucky enough to get caught up in that mess. And remember when Cu's first came out and tamers were whining and crying that Necro's could also tame them when using the wolf familiar? To me, tamers in general showed a lot of selfishness during that time.

Just my 2 cents.

Lets not also forget that back in those days you used to go to a dungeon and every monster in there was fighting another throughout while the provocation bard with 40 prov skill controlling the entire dungeon was in one corner AFK having a cigarette, you were lucky to find anything to hunt at all, publish 16 put paid to this and the twink tamers with an army of white wyrms, a good thing too.
Fact is players in all games tend to gravitate toward whatever the flavour of the month is(easiest to do, makes most money), I personally wouldn't have called someone with about 60-70 taming and 5 white wyrms they bought at brit bank a "tamer", once publish 16 made them have to actually get taming(possibly the hardest skill to train) up to GM, and made it so they couldn't have an army of pets, I imagine these types moved onto something else

 

[MalagAste]

Lets not also forget that back in those days you used to go to a dungeon and every monster in there was fighting another throughout while the provocation bard with 40 prov skill controlling the entire dungeon was in one corner AFK having a cigarette, you were lucky to find anything to hunt at all, publish 16 put paid to this and the twink tamers with an army of white wyrms, a good thing too.
Fact is players in all games tend to gravitate toward whatever the flavour of the month is(easiest to do, makes most money), I personally wouldn't have called someone with about 60-70 taming and 5 white wyrms they bought at brit bank a "tamer", once publish 16 made them have to actually get taming(possibly the hardest skill to train) up to GM, and made it so they couldn't have an army of pets, I imagine these types moved onto something else

They did until the Advanced and Mythic tokens came out. Now everyone buys one of those throws on some jewelery and buys a GD from the vendors in Magincia and calls themselves a "tamer" though most of them have never "tamed" anything.

 

[Gamer_Goblin]

They did until the Advanced and Mythic tokens came out. Now everyone buys one of those throws on some jewelery and buys a GD from the vendors in Magincia and calls themselves a "tamer" though most of them have never "tamed" anything.

Just did this. I am such good tamer too. LOL

 

[GarthGrey]

My son was playing Skyrim last night and I noticed there's some taming type skill or spell or something that lets you give a command to any animal (untamed) that it will obey, temporarily though. This would be a nice option for tamers too as long as it wasn't too OP. If a Legendary tamer were running through the woods and got attacked by mobs, its not too far fetched that he/she couldn't shout something a la Tarzan.

 

[virtualhabitat]

Herding.

Add Herding to Tame, Lore, Vet and get extra bonus. With herding Tamable monsters don't aggro on you while being herded, extra stable slots, and reduced difficulty on tamables.

 

[Spock's Beard]

I wouldn't support removing it, it's to help act as a balance with Warriors. Warriors mostly likely have a Weapon Skill, Anatomy, and Healing. That's 300 points, Vet being on Tamers works the same way. Since the creature is a tamers weapon, the other two skills, Lore and Vet, are necessary to equal the skill point expenditure.

These sorts of broad comparisons across wildly different character templates are almost always completely worthless. I mean you're just picking three "warrior skills" seemingly at random and arbitrarily declaring them equal to three tamer skills for no particular reason other than an unsupported assertion that "skill point expenditure" needs to be compared between templates that have nothing in common.

Or to put it another way:

Everyone with a weapon skill also has Tactics. Whoops now "warriors" are using 400 points to the tamer's 300. Guess we need to get rid of a warrior skill. But wait pretty much every tamer has Magery and Meditation so they can heal their pet from a distance, so now the tamer is using 500 points to the warrior's 400 so never mind, it's time to get rid of Veterinary again. Then again sampires, you know the dominant PVM "warrior" template, don't even use Healing most of the time, so now actually it's 500 for tamers to 300 for warriors. Better get rid of two skills.

Or maybe we should just accept that this is a ridiculous thing to compare.

 

[Zosimus]

Sometimes UO skill freedom of choices and templates just don't mesh well when things are added onto older aging almost useless skills.

The dev team needs to rethink about skills in general. Maybe revamp skills on templates that are pretty aged.

Make Animal Taming and Animal Lore as one new skill. Call it Taming and Lore with what the skills would do separately but combined. Then Vet can be used as healing and rezzing.


Same with combining Healing and Anatomy for warrior type templates. Call it Anatomy Heal and work as both healing and combat damage.

Same with combining Magery and Evaluating Intelligence for mage type templates. Call it Magery Intelligence for the obvious reasons.

I can go on but it would probably solve the crowding and confusion of templates with so many skills. Would make it a ton easier for new players and returning players. Quit all this math and college research just to be able to play the game.

 

[MalagAste]

Sometimes UO skill freedom of choices and templates just don't mesh well when things are added onto older aging almost useless skills.

The dev team needs to rethink about skills in general. Maybe revamp skills on templates that are pretty aged.

Make Animal Taming and Animal Lore as one new skill. Call it Taming and Lore with what the skills would do separately but combined. Then Vet can be used as healing and rezzing.


Same with combining Healing and Anatomy for warrior type templates. Call it Anatomy Heal and work as both healing and combat damage.

Same with combining Magery and Evaluating Intelligence for mage type templates. Call it Magery Intelligence for the obvious reasons.

I can go on but it would probably solve the crowding and confusion of templates with so many skills. Would make it a ton easier for new players and returning players. Quit all this math and college research just to be able to play the game.

I like it also drop Music and if you take up Provoking, Peacing and Discord you already "know" music. Call them "Provoking Bard", "Peacing Bard" and "Discord Bard".

You could combine Mysticism and Focus to and it could be a Focused Mystic. But you know...

Lose arms lore and just as you make a certain piece of armor you gain in "craftsmanship".... which could including more things the more materials you work with the better you because at "Craftsmanship". Put tailoring Craftsmanship into a category and allow more "armor" to be added to hats, cloaks, robes and pants and things. If Gargoyles can wear cloth armor why can't humans and elves? Blacksmithing craftsmanship... would allow more metal work to be done and allow better function to working with other items like dragon scales, horns etc.. Using horns gathered from Gamen, unicorns, demons, etc.. they can fashion new weapons, shields and armor... too. Alchemical Craftsmanship would allow the creation of better potions, Masonry craftsmanship would allow more stone to be found and worked... into WAY more things etc...

 

[Pandora_CoD]

I think it should be rolled into animal lore... Using a bandage to heal or resurrect your pet should require animal lore to do so. Veterinary is otherwise a worthless skill.

 

[Pandora_CoD]

I'd also like to see a bunch of skills get the axe, like forensics??? Who the hell uses that? And that could easily be rolled into anatomy.

 

[Gamer_Goblin]

I'd also like to see a bunch of skills get the axe, like forensics??? Who the hell uses that? And that could easily be rolled into anatomy.

I don't use it, but they did tie it to Honesty somewhat. BTW... Anyone ever get that up? LOL

 

[Lord Frodo]

They could do all of this or just give us more skill points to use. Why cant a warrior be skilled in all weapons or a master magic user be skilled in all magic. Should there really be a skill cap, why can't we, if we so chose, train our chars. in all skills.?

 

[Lady CaT]

They could do all of this or just give us more skill points to use. Why cant a warrior be skilled in all weapons or a master magic user be skilled in all magic. Should there really be a skill cap, why can't we, if we so chose, train our chars. in all skills.?

Wait!! I can have one character that can do everything!! *rushes to shut down multiple accounts of other characters*

 

[Zosimus]

They could do all of this or just give us more skill points to use. Why cant a warrior be skilled in all weapons or a master magic user be skilled in all magic. Should there really be a skill cap, why can't we, if we so chose, train our chars. in all skills.?

Other games allow classes to use more weapons that UO does.

For example in GW2

The Warrior profession can use 19 possible weapon sets for the warrior profession and two weapon sets while underwater.

The Ranger profession (same as an Archer in UO) has eleven possible weapon sets for this profession and it can access two weapon sets while underwater

The Guardian Profession ( like a Paladin in UO) has twelve possible weapon sets for this profession and two weapon sets while underwater.

Our weapons when equipped determines the first 5 skills in the player bar even though our chars are level based chars to 80. So our first 5 skills are determined by what weapon we are using.


UO needs the accounts and if a player can make more skills on one toon then the need of many accounts could be factored in closing for some.

I think they should combine skills in UO but add some new ones that compliment main templates. 18 year old game and still based on a skill cap at 700 then 720 when they added PS is a little outdated in todays MMO's. At least 840 skill cap could make a difference.

 

[Lord Arm]

I really dont see any reason to scrap vet, my tamer can do most things while other templates have a harder time doing the same thing. if I had an extra 100/120 skill would make a large pvp imbalance in the game. dismount tamers would be everywhere lol tamers are very versatile, u don't have to have vet on your tamer so. u asking for an extra 100/120 skill points? my tamer is powerful enough, don't want to make it too easy.

 

[Luc of Legends]

Other games allow classes to use more weapons that UO does.

For example in GW2

The Warrior profession can use 19 possible weapon sets for the warrior profession and two weapon sets while underwater.

The Ranger profession (same as an Archer in UO) has eleven possible weapon sets for this profession and it can access two weapon sets while underwater

The Guardian Profession ( like a Paladin in UO) has twelve possible weapon sets for this profession and two weapon sets while underwater.

Our weapons when equipped determines the first 5 skills in the player bar even though our chars are level based chars to 80. So our first 5 skills are determined by what weapon we are using.


UO needs the accounts and if a player can make more skills on one toon then the need of many accounts could be factored in closing for some.

I think they should combine skills in UO but add some new ones that compliment main templates. 18 year old game and still based on a skill cap at 700 then 720 when they added PS is a little outdated in todays MMO's. At least 840 skill cap could make a difference.

When you say weapon sets do you mean like different type of weapons? Cause in UO there many different swords weapons, fencing weapons, etc.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

They could do all of this or just give us more skill points to use. Why cant a warrior be skilled in all weapons or a master magic user be skilled in all magic. Should there really be a skill cap, why can't we, if we so chose, train our chars. in all skills.?

Darkfall Online was like that. It was heavily inspired by oldschool UO, so it had a very similar skill system to UO, where you gained skills by using them, and slowly gained stats by using associated skills.
Problem was, they had no skill cap. Eventually, with a massive ****load of grinding (and scripting), alot of the skills could be maxed, which ended up with people having Jack of All Trades, Master of All type chars. With a single char, they could be a master Warrior with a 2H Wep in hand, swap to a Bow and be a master Archer, swap to a Staff and be a master Mage, then swap to a tool and be a master Gatherer as they ran to a workbench to make them self the best equipment as a master Craftsman.
This seriously unbalanced PvP and the economy to all hell and back. In order to compete with these guys, you had to spend most of your time grinding (or scripting) to build up skills so you could remain competitive. With Darkfall Online being a hardcore PvP Sandbox MMORPG where Clans could own and take territory and cities from other Clans, remaining competitive was absolutely vital. If you didn't constantly grind your skills, you'd become worthless to your clan basically.
It's a pity they didn't stick to their original plans, which were having a "soft cap" on skills where it becomes harder to gain skillpoints the higher your total skillpoints, neglected skills decay over time, and having one school of magic locks you out from using it's opposite school.
UO would face similar balance problems if there was no skill cap.

 

[Zosimus]

When you say weapon sets do you mean like different type of weapons? Cause in UO there many different swords weapons, fencing weapons, etc.

Yes but I can also use 2 axes at one time

Example of a weapons set a ranger (Archer in UO) can use in combinations

Weapons[edit]

• Two-handed
  • Greatsword — A brute force, heavy-damage weapon with emphasis on countering and evasion.
  • Longbow — Powerful, long-range weapon used for Rapid Fire strikes and AoE barrages.
  • Short bow — Quick skirmishing weapon relying on movement, positioning, and conditions for quick kills.

• Main-hand
  • Sword — Mobile melee strikes which can be used to distance the ranger from the target or surprise them from behind.
  • Axe — Medium ranged throwing weapon which can ricochet off a target or can toss a cluster of axes.

• Off-hand
  • Axe — Enter a stance to reflect incoming strikes or throw the axe for a boomerang effect.
  • Dagger — Used as a crippling ranged attack, or a quick poisonous stab for melee.
  • Torch — Throw the torch at enemies for burning damage, or light areas on fire.
  • Warhorn — Used to deal damage over time or buff allies.

• Aquatic
  • Harpoon gun — Use ranged attacks to strike multiple foes and makes use of the underwater environment.
  • Spear — Keep foes at bay with close range spear stabs and swipes.
• Here is a 2 weapon set with both axes

Here is a video with a sword in main hand and a dagger in the other




Rangers also have pets that fight in battle.

It would be great if the UO developers could focus on new skills and combine the old ones. The previous developers created AoS and the game has survived through that debacle so focusing on new skills and fixing old ones wouldn't hurt a thing.

 

[Sunseri]

Well your 2 cents don't know much. First off you have any idea how much damage a GD actually does to most things? About 35. Sometimes it gets lucky and does 60 or so.... It's SLOW too usually doing about 5 or 10 damage... occasionally 35 to 60... but rarely. The "power" of a GD is in that it's not dead in .4 seconds. It's a nice tank while you do something else to kill the mob. Any mage, dexer or whatever can outdamage a GD 10 fold in half the time. It's what you put WITH the template that does the damage.

So, you want the greater dragon, which is really meant to be a tank pet, to have comparable damage output as a dexer or mage? So you don't really care about balance, as long as your pet gets closer to being all-powerful? 1,200 hp's,80's in most resists,and hits like a dexer? Perhaps we should also give it enhanced AI so you can stay at the bank or house while it dungeon hunts for you.

 

[MalagAste]

So, you want the greater dragon, which is really meant to be a tank pet, to have comparable damage output as a dexer or mage? So you don't really care about balance, as long as your pet gets closer to being all-powerful? 1,200 hp's,80's in most resists,and hits like a dexer? Perhaps we should also give it enhanced AI so you can stay at the bank or house while it dungeon hunts for you.

I'm Saying you act like having a greater dragon makes the Tamer so uber... it don't do SQUAT. It doesn't make a tamer uber or overpowered or in any way great... It just give him a pet that lasts more than a mere second or two... You act like having a greater makes them so wonderful and that it's such a great thing... A Dragon has WAY more HP than a player yes.... but it does 1/8th the damage.. and it is 10x slower... Making a tamer extremely underpowered in todays UO. So for all the effort it takes to BUILD a tamer we get the LEAST reward. I can build a dexer or mage type in a day... Taming takes ages... hours and hours and hours of following things around taming and killing taming and killing and taming and killing.. I can park a dexer or mage type and sit back and read a book while gaining skills.... attended... but not really doing anything..... you CAN'T do that and gain taming. I can 120 peacing and music even while sitting back doing nothing... There are very few skills other than taming that stink to gain So YES I do think that the GD or some other pet ought to deal as much if not more damage than a Dexer or Mage. You put as much time and devotion into your character for little to no return. Sure I can stand there and just all kill... but I do actually have to heal my pet, keep him happy and alive make sure that he's doing fine kill off things which overwhelm it... etc... it's not all just standing about saying all kill... Meanwhile a dexer walks up to something and hits the same 2 macro's over and over... So cry me a river about fair... There are good and bad points to every skill set... I'm just saying that Greater Dragons are NOT all that great. Infact there isn't a pet for Tamers that does much as far as damage output goes save maybe the runebeetle/bake..... But they die in .1 seconds so not really that uber.

The problem with tamers anymore is that the mobs grew up but the pets haven't. Greater Dragons supposedly weren't meant to be tamed..... and then we weren't supposed to get Dread Mares either.... and the Bane as a joke on tamers supposed to give those who never got the Dreads something just as good but it isn't anything close to a Dread. Fact of the matter is that Greater Dragons are annoying to everyone as they are HUGE with Big flappy wings all over at EM events and such..... Tamers wouldn't take them if pets like the Skree or dreads and things didn't suck so bad and die so freaking quickly to anything that sneezes on them. How would you like it if everytime your EV was dispelled it came back with less power next time you cast it??? Or if after every battle your sword or bow hit less hard and with less force each time you fought..... Betting you wouldn't like it... But it's ok if everytime your pet dies it loses stats and skills. And it's ok that for each death it can take hours to get the skill back and in some cases you don't ever get it back... Mages, Dexers, Archers, Throwers all get to use "Bonuses" to augment their skills.... with spellbooks, special moves, imbuing, enhancing, reforging, talismans, SDI, etc.... There is ONE thing I can do to my pet to make it more powerful.... feed it a tasty treat.... that barely lasts very long and does VERY little to augment the ability of the pet... I can spend YEARS searching for a really good dragon.... and NEVER find one... Yet you can go out and make an uber weapon in no time. You can find good weapons and such without much trouble...

Yes I can augment taming with some other skill but I've already got 300+ Skill points used up in just my pet.... which is little more than a meat shield for others. The rest of my skill points really don't offer a whole lot because I can't really use them to their full potential because I've already got all those points used up in Taming, Lore and Vet... So whatever I have left is 1/2 what everyone else gets... and the pet does NOT make that up. So meanwhile most other templates are doing far more damage and such.... best I can hope for with a pet is that all the healing I do offsets the points I don't get for damage... But when 3/4 of the mobs now are such that I can't be anywhere NEAR my pet to vet... healing it also becomes a challenge for me.

 

[Sunseri]

I was going to reply to your post line by line, but it really just comes down to just how strong should tamers pets be? The tanking ability of a greater dragon, mixed with the damage output of a bake(or mare) and rune beetle? Maybe even add to the bake a cross heal ability so you can stand back while they work. Point for point there is not a stronger 300-360 points in the game. If you can come up with a better half-template, I'd like to see it.