(RP) Siege Perilous Vice vs. Virtue Shard Status [Start of War - 6/15/15]

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Siege Perilous Vice vs. Virtue Shard Status (updated each Monday)

Shard Status: (Score: +1471112) Felucca is Waxing, Ascending into Light and Virtue.
[Shard Status = (Virtue combined Score - Vice Combined Score) > Neutral. A negative number is waning and shows vice has the upper hand, a positive number is waxing and indicates Virtue has the upper hand. If the resulting Virtue or Vice score is less then or equal to the Neutral Score the shard is in Equilibrium]

Currently there is no "in game" mechanic to determine if a guild supports Vice or Virtue. To add another dimension to the conflict I will maintain a list of guilds that are aggressive in nature (attacking people on site) and non aggressive/cooperative towards others (speaking rather then attacking). The Aggressive Guilds will be listed as "Vice" and will be attacked on site while NoN-Aggressive Guilds will be listed as "Virtue". In addition I will maintain a list of guilds who are "Neutral" as well as a list for Individuals called "Betrayers". Betrayers are known griefers and scammers who fight for no side other then themselves, they continually act in a manner that undermines community and disrupts events.

Virtue Guilds - Good Aligned, Stands for Virtue, opposes to Evil/Vice. Speaks rather then engages in combat against Virtue, innocents or those who are not yet known, may conduct battle without warning against aggressors and those on the Vice/Betrayers list. Virtue Guilds may engage in Honorable Competition (no looting) amongst each other for Cities and engage in friendly warfare to claim towns in the name of Virtue.

- Independent City State of Gilfane [Gil]
- Loria, Kingdom of Light [Lore]
- Minocian Partisans Resistance [MPR*]
- Last Man Standing [LMS]
- Random Chaos [R-C]
- Legion of Honor [L*H]
- Four Horseman [4H]
- White Council Britannians [WCB]
- Spy vs Spy [MAD!]
- Citizens of Wispwood Shire [CWS]
- Keepers of the Virtuous Path [KVP]
- Iron Claw Empire [ICE]
- ipku [IPKU]

Vice Guilds - Sworn to Vice, Against the Virtues, May attack without warning or provocation against Virtue but also innocents in town, Betrayers or fellow Vice members - considered extremely volatile and dangerous. [Added a Tag called (RP Vice) which means the guilds act more like Virtue Guilds but are role-playing support for the Vice armies].

-Brave Amateurs [B^A]
-Terror and Anarchy [TnA]
-Treasure and Treachery [TnT]
-Hidden Order of Outcasts [HOoO]
-Bad Ass [BA]
-Animality [ZOO]
-FYOU [FYOU]
-&3 [&3]

Neutral/Undetermined Guilds: Non aggressive Guilds and Individuals sworn to neither Vice nor Virtue or which to little information is known to make a determination

-The Dark Outlaws [TDO*] (RP)
-Barter Town Inc [^__^]
-Golden Skull Savages [CLAN]
-Shadow Light [S L]
-Prepare to be Boarded [Arrr]
-Pirates [YARR]
-Game of Thrones [GoT]

Betrayers (Guilds/Individuals that are against both Vice and Virtue, Will not respect events, or breaks event rules. Distrusted by all scammers and griefers. Also people found farming kills by murdering Alts will have scores removed. Scores, Kills and Rank are blacked out until they improve standing in community)

-Mike-D [GlL] (Fake Gilfane tag and may claim to be in Gilfane) [Was asked to change tags and stop impersonating another guild. Refused but has informed me that he no longer plays Siege and I will remove him from Betrayer list after 90 days]

[If you wish to add your guild or report another guild as Vice, Virtue, or Betrayer please post a response to this post with as many details as possible so that it can be reviewed. If the findings hold true the guild will be added to the appropriate list. If you believe you or your guild has been misrepresented contact Lore Denin [96629882] with your appeal and it will be reviewed]

Current Scores and Standings:

Top Guild Scores

Top Individual Scores

Top Guild Kills

Top Individual Kills

Top Guild Sigils

Top Individual Sigils

 

[Silent Singer]

I like what you are doing here Lore. I would like to say that the Vice v. Virtue idea is a construct for RP purposes. I've never seen Mish or Freja or several others in Vice aligned guilds attack on sight without talking. I'm sure you know that but wanted to clarify for anyone who comes along and sees this and isn't aware (from newness or general isolation). But yeah, neat ranking!

 

[FrejaSP]

Hehe, on the other hand, I had seen Virtue jump out of hiding and attack without a word, so the defination of the groups "Speaks rather then engaging in combat" vs "extremely volatile and dangerous" may not always be correct and some Vice may give a RP warning and some Virtue may attack enemies without any kind of RP warning.

I too like it and hope it will work out well.

Even when the last part is "Winner take it all", TDO may not loot or only loot very little unless we find pieces of our suit on the ones we kill. I take that part as you are free to loot but don't have too but accept the risk for getting looted
Freja will still drain her victims for blood in the first part , if she should success killing anyone, she seem to die alot more that she kill

 

[bla bla 12]

nice one erasing my name from the leaderboard ..

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

nice one erasing my name from the leaderboard ..

Lies, that's my name there.

 

[GarthGrey]

Wow, you included every guild but mine. I'm ok with that though.

 

[Ol MacDeezy]

nice one erasing my name from the leaderboard ..

but they'll surely put your name on their bad guy list! :/

 

[GarthGrey]

So the top 2 points on 1 list seem to have way more deaths than kills. That's an awesome system.

 

[Feanaro]

So the top 2 points on 1 list seem to have way more deaths than kills. That's an awesome system.

Isn't it though? Enjoy your deco everyone. _Fean

 

[FrejaSP]

So the top 2 points on 1 list seem to have way more deaths than kills. That's an awesome system.

Yes that's why Diablo have so many kills, I can't kill him but I keep trying.
Had been dying to FYOU and Dark Star too, and a few more, but at lest we see some actions in towns

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Wow, you included every guild but mine. I'm ok with that though.

Fix and currently GoT is listed as Neutral.

Hehe, on the other hand, I had seen Virtue jump out of hiding and attack without a word, so the defination of the groups "Speaks rather then engaging in combat" vs "extremely volatile and dangerous" may not always be correct and some Vice may give a RP warning and some Virtue may attack enemies without any kind of RP warning.

Updated Definitions for clarity

Even when the last part is "Winner take it all", TDO may not loot or only loot very little unless we find pieces of our suit on the ones we kill. I take that part as you are free to loot but don't have too but accept the risk for getting looted
Freja will still drain her victims for blood in the first part , if she should success killing anyone, she seem to die alot more that she kill

I am sure with more blood she will become stronger! and yes as many have probably noticed my guild doesn't loot either, even if event is full loot.

Lies, that's my name there.

F A L S E - You mean L I E 's name there

-Lore

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

ABBA rules yeah. Cool group, great song about the winner taking it all. Also following a strange melody, and a super trooper etc.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Just out of curiosity, How much gold would it take to get up and running on SP for a mage? And, are there people who exchange gold for prodo gold? If so, what's the conversion rate?

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

Umm, depends on the template. Most cost goes to buy PS (magery 120 is couple millions, rest are one million and below, some like eval are a bit higher than 1m), the suit - some good pieces can be farmed yourself, good imbued, reforged stuff is cheap - up to 500-800k for a really good suit, weaker suits are a lot cheaper.
People do exchange siege gold for prodo gold, the rate is somewhere between 3x and 9x.

 

[The Cheapsuit]

Hehe, on the other hand, I had seen Virtue jump out of hiding and attack without a word, so the defination of the groups "Speaks rather then engaging in combat" vs "extremely volatile and dangerous" may not always be correct and some Vice may give a RP warning and some Virtue may attack enemies without any kind of RP warning.

I too like it and hope it will work out well.

Even when the last part is "Winner take it all", TDO may not loot or only loot very little unless we find pieces of our suit on the ones we kill. I take that part as you are free to loot but don't have too but accept the risk for getting looted
Freja will still drain her victims for blood in the first part , if she should success killing anyone, she seem to die alot more that she kill

Ok all this siege vs virtue stuff have me confused. I've been gone a while and don't even remember how to create new post. Anyone care to fill me in please?

 

[Silent Singer]

It all refers to the pvp system that replaced factions, Virtue vs Vice. Lore has been organizing semi RP events on Siege where VvV battles are the central part. Lore writes an RP story before and after each one. Essentially he has grouped what he considers Siege's "virtuous" guilds together and pitted them against those who represent "vice". That help?

 

[The Cheapsuit]

It all refers to the pvp system that replaced factions, Virtue vs Vice. Lore has been organizing semi RP events on Siege where VvV battles are the central part. Lore writes an RP story before and after each one. Essentially he has grouped what he considers Siege's "virtuous" guilds together and pitted them against those who represent "vice". That help?

I think so. What color will I be if I logged on? Still red? I also assume my tower has fallen.

 

[Ol MacDeezy]

Just out of curiosity, How much gold would it take to get up and running on SP for a mage? And, are there people who exchange gold for prodo gold? If so, what's the conversion rate?

120 magery is more than a couple mil, way more, the rest of the scrolls for a standard mage temp arent so bad but 120 magery is a killer....but if your can get by with 115 then that would be the cheaper route(obviously) and the current exchange rate for atl gold is 7mil(ATL) for 1mil(Siege)...this rate is from my recent dealings from last night....

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

ty for the response

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

A friend and I are considering playing siege. We are strictly PvP. I forget which thread (might have been this one) that stated SP is more of a pk shard? How much merit does that statement hold?

 

[Zalfein]

A friend and I are considering playing siege. We are strictly PvP. I forget which thread (might have been this one) that stated SP is more of a pk shard? How much merit does that statement hold?

The fact that there's no trammel and that the Fel ruleset is active everywhere (including Malas/TerMur/Ish/all dungeons/etc) is a good start. I remember the first time I saw a murderer in the Abyss, I realized fast that there were no safe place to farm.

This leads to a problem, people don't say much in General Chat about what they are doing. Also, plenty stealth around, no bank sitting.

So, unless there's an idoc, or event, you'll have to work to find victims.

If you're just looking to fight and not specifically PK, then join VvV and have fun with other PvPers.

Zalfein

 

[Ol MacDeezy]

A friend and I are considering playing siege. We are strictly PvP. I forget which thread (might have been this one) that stated SP is more of a pk shard? How much merit does that statement hold?

well you can get into a fight no problem if you just shout out in gen chat to the other pvpers, im sure someone will be obliged to come play(as for who ya never know) and i wouldnt expect it to be a fair fight coming if you were to hollar in gen chat...there are players from the Gil(alliance); TDO*; and the B^A(alliance) that go out for some points in the towns as far as the VvV system goes...But i'd agree that it is in fact a PK shard because if your not in a town or shouting for the fight in gen then your more than likely gonna be hunting for the low end suited farmer trying to get more loots, which isnt a bad thing as a pvper you need to fund your fun some how right?...why not go kill some pvmers with the good loot in their packs

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

Maybe because these pvmers stealth around, farm secluded places, constantly move around and once you pass by they send all of their costly items with an ant bag?

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Updated for week of June 1st-7th

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

CENSORED, CENSORED!

 

[Ellie]

Well geeze, you covered up how many sigils Ive returned.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Well geeze, you covered up how many sigils Ive returned.

HA! I apologize and didn't even see that. I'll update that later today.

-Lore

 

[FrejaSP]

I do believe Lore Denin look at it from a RP view. I think you are right, this list is not perfect and could effect how new players look at the guilds.

It's never good, then placing people in boxes. TDO is in many ways Virtue, as we do alot to help, when we can, but from a RP view, we are Vice, as we are meant to be some kind of Robin Hood Clan, who Virtue will see as Vice.

Also between the ones labeled as Virtue, there may be some, who are not as Virtue as they believe. And putting all Vice in same box are wrong too.

Maybe we, Siege do not fit this boxes and we more need a list of the alliances and guilds, and what the stand for with their own words.

Some guilds / Alliances will fight/attack all others, some will only attack if someone stand on their alter, some will only fight the alliances they have as enemies in the rest of the game.

I respect Lore Denin for trying and we had seen more actions in the towns. I don't want how he did it, but he have the honer for me being active in VvV. I believe the list only are meant to set some rules. People who PvP everyday, already have a set of unwrited rules for honor in PvP and how to handle being friend and enemy on same time. For new PvP'ers, it can be shocking, to see friends be enemies, when alliances changes and they end up getting killed of a friend or worse, a group where one is a friend, and even when the friend do not loot, the others in the group may do and friend ships risk to be lost, because alliances comes before friends on the field.

Also I do not agree with the word betrayer, I more see it as different levels of the Virtue/Anti Virtue.

What do we have?

1. Guilds, who will not attack anyone no matter of color. They will fight or run if attacked
2. Guilds, who try to make Justice and will attack, no matter of color, if they do not like the player/guilds actions, even if it make player quit or give up trying to PvP
3. Guilds who will attack anyone, who won't make them take murderer count no matter of their actions ingame
4. Guilds, who will RP and let that effect who they attack
5. Guilds, who like to play the evil side of the game and will attack anyone not Allied but not to grief but to share some fun
6. Guilds, who only share about own fun and will play to win on any cost, even if it make player quit or give up trying to PvP

Who belong in what box, I would not dare to make that choice as nothing is Black and White. I may put some in a box, they do not feel they belong in. Also, who is true Virtue and who is true Vice, I believe non of them.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

I get that some people believe it is all about the pixel tag. That narrow mindedness overrides the value of honest people with good virtues who have done several good deeds over the years on Siege. But who the hell are you to actually post and list people/guilds in to catagories that you all feel they belong.



People reading Stratic's and who may be new to Siege may likely assume the guilds you have listed as Vice are not good people in good guilds. I have not sworn anything to Vice nor has my guild IPKU. For the most part I do not believe people who have known me on Siege through out the years would consider me as "extremely volatile and dangerous". I carry a tag IPKU because UO is a game.



You all do not make the rule's on Siege. To post the "Good Bad and the Ugly" guilds on Siege is only your opinion. Just because people are not in the "holier than thou" virtue alliance does not mean they are **** people who made a pact to become evil!

Baby Doll (IPKU)

Perhaps this will clarify things Baby Doll, below is what I posted to Sprago on WC boards on the matter.... The reason IPKU is listed as Vice is because they wanted to be seen as Vice and are in BA alliance helping them raid cities against Virtue during the rp events.

This does not make you a bad person. I am genuinely sorry you feel so hurt and its not my intention or the intention of the list. Talk to Sprago and see if being in the Vice alliance is what your guild wants and let me know what you decide? As you can see from the post below, I always considered IPKU Virtue and was as surprised as anyone you guys went Vice.

[Reposted from WC forums]

IPKU is only listed as Vice because they are allied with Vice guilds. Its not a reflection of you as a person. I personally think you are pretty awesome and the way you play is Virtue rather then Vice.

Honestly TDO is more Virtue then Vice by my definitions and are simply listed as Vice because they are rp evil and want to be seen as Vice.

If IPKU wants to declare Virtue, of course we'd all love to work with you. I understand that the standards the white council has for its members and those IPKU has for its members are not the same but the path of Virtue is many rivers leading to the same ocean. One is not better then another, but at the same time each must follow the path true to them...

I respect Hoffs and his decision to maintain the standards of conduct for all White Council members, I respect you as the GM of IPKU to decide those standards are to restrictive for your gameplay and that of your members. Just because you are not a white Council member doesn't mean you can't be Virtue, in fact part of Virtues issue in gaining stronger pvp forces is the strict nature placed on the members for conduct. [For the record I am probably the worst in this regard. My guild has 3 active people and is not likely to grow because the restrictions I place on members is insane. Even if I were playing Atlantic I would be lucky to find 5-6 people that could play the way I am builing my guild. It worked great when UO was new and for the first 5-6 years when the game was heavily populated by rpers. In today's game, its really hard to grow a rp pvp guild but that is what Loria is about.

This is my thought and proposal to both you and the White Council to consider.

The actual Kingdom of Britannia lacks any Virtue Guilds of significance. What if IPKU became the forces that represent Britannia. I can help with stories and RP to help you create what would amount to official armies of Britannia led by your guild and alliance. This would give you and guilds like yours wanting to join Virtue more freedom then they would have working under the restrictions of the White Council yet not having them be opposed in Vice.

There does have to be some middle ground and maybe IPKU can be the guild to bridge that gap.

-Lore

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Perhaps this will clarify things Baby Doll, below is what I posted to Sprago on WC boards on the matter.... The reason IPKU is listed as Vice is because they wanted to be seen as Vice and are in BA alliance helping them raid cities against Virtue during the rp events.

This does not make you a bad person. I am genuinely sorry you feel so hurt and its not my intention or the intention of the list. Talk to Sprago and see if being in the Vice alliance is what your guild wants and let me know what you decide? As you can see from the post below, I always considered IPKU Virtue and was as surprised as anyone you guys went Vice.

[Reposted from WC forums]

IPKU is only listed as Vice because they are allied with Vice guilds. Its not a reflection of you as a person. I personally think you are pretty awesome and the way you play is Virtue rather then Vice.

Honestly TDO is more Virtue then Vice by my definitions and are simply listed as Vice because they are rp evil and want to be seen as Vice.

If IPKU wants to declare Virtue, of course we'd all love to work with you. I understand that the standards the white council has for its members and those IPKU has for its members are not the same but the path of Virtue is many rivers leading to the same ocean. One is not better then another, but at the same time each must follow the path true to them...

I respect Hoffs and his decision to maintain the standards of conduct for all White Council members, I respect you as the GM of IPKU to decide those standards are to restrictive for your gameplay and that of your members. Just because you are not a white Council member doesn't mean you can't be Virtue, in fact part of Virtues issue in gaining stronger pvp forces is the strict nature placed on the members for conduct. [For the record I am probably the worst in this regard. My guild has 3 active people and is not likely to grow because the restrictions I place on members is insane. Even if I were playing Atlantic I would be lucky to find 5-6 people that could play the way I am builing my guild. It worked great when UO was new and for the first 5-6 years when the game was heavily populated by rpers. In today's game, its really hard to grow a rp pvp guild but that is what Loria is about.

This is my thought and proposal to both you and the White Council to consider.

The actual Kingdom of Britannia lacks any Virtue Guilds of significance. What if IPKU became the forces that represent Britannia. I can help with stories and RP to help you create what would amount to official armies of Britannia led by your guild and alliance. This would give you and guilds like yours wanting to join Virtue more freedom then they would have working under the restrictions of the White Council yet not having them be opposed in Vice.

There does have to be some middle ground and maybe IPKU can be the guild to bridge that gap.

-Lore

Updated - IPKU was wrongly listed as Vice and it has been corrected.

-Added Honorable Competition for Cities among Virtue Guilds who wish to engage in friendly competition to claim towns for Virtue.

 

[Ol MacDeezy]

Was fun last night Lore Denin

 

[FrejaSP]

TDO* wish to be moved to the Neutral group, as we are not really Virtue or Vice. We will fight, when attacked but will not attack, unless we have too, to get the alter we already started to claim.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Was fun last night Lore Denin

It was an Honor (and a blast). Added this definition to Virtue to allow friendly competition for towns when Vice Forces are not present.

"Virtue Guilds may engage in Honorable Competition (no looting) amongst each other for Cities and engage in friendly warfare to claim towns in the name of Virtue."

TDO* wish to be moved to the Neutral group, as we are not really Virtue or Vice. We will fight, when attacked but will not attack, unless we have too, to get the alter we already started to claim.

TDO has been moved to Neutral.

-Lore

 

[Candy Cane]

I think you guys are to hung up on tags. When I came over to Siege I was looking for that sense of danger when playing. I didn't think I would be judged by the tag I carried. I have always been in guilds who killed people. In my whole UO life I have killed 2 maybe 3 people. I have healed plenty who did the killing but as the one who actually killed someone 2 or 3. But because I choose to carry an FYOU tag suddenly I was labeled to be bad. I heard things like no one will trust you, no one will trade or sell things to you. Are you kidding me, I thought that can't be right but sadly in a small community like Siege it is.

I have given back armor that dropped, gold to people who needed it, rezed as many of my enemies as I have guildies and alliances members. I have never raged in gen chat, or vent about being killed or not getting heals when I thought someone could have done it. This to me is a game to play when I have free time. The friends I make aren't just game friends, a lot of them go past game.

I would love to see you guys judge people by who they are not by the tag they carry. You might find out you actually like someone who carries a tag of evil or good.

I miss many of you who I got to know on Siege, some of you I still keep in contact with and you know who you are, Hugs. The others I wish I still got to chat with, you made the game fun. If you ever need a hand, you can usually find me on Lake Superior!

Good luck to all of you and may you never get a death robe you aren't proud of.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

I would love to see you guys judge people by who they are not by the tag they carry. You might find out you actually like someone who carries a tag of evil or good.

Great post and I couldn't have said it better.

I don't like certain people deciding for the rest of the shard who will go into what go into catgeory.

I agree with this as well, participating guilds tell me what group they are in, not the other way around. Just like you and Sprago contacted me and asked to be listed in Virtue and so it was changed. Freja also asked to be changed to Neutral and so it was.... The only thing that can change a person out of a group would be actions in game....

Honestly I base my opinion on people on their actions not the pixel title.

Exactly!

Example. FYOU, no I really do not like Diablo. But Tru has always been good to me. But I decided on each person and my encounter with them. Not because someone else deems it so. Until Tru gives me reason to dislike him I will be friendly towards him.

Baby Doll, I think its a simple misunderstanding between us. Why in the world would you not be friends with Tru? Just like I support Freja's friendship with Diablo, I would never discourage you from being friends with people you like.

This is for in game related Vice vs Virtue RP wars. People who fight for Virtue, people who fight for Vice, people who are Neutral and people who will come to events and grief you. Its as simple as that.

To further expand, people have asked me why "Zoo" and Provincia are not listed as "Betrayers" since they are allied to FYOU, work with Diablo and TRU... Simple answer, Provincia has always followed rules of events and never griefed them. He's only come during the full loot phase, when you can work with anyone.

-Lore

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Siege Perilous Vice vs. Virtue Shard Status (updated each Monday)

Shard Status: (Score: +11681853) Felucca is Waxing, Ascending into Light and Virtue.
[Shard Status = (Virtue combined Score - Vice Combined Score) > Neutral. A negative number is waning and shows vice has the upper hand, a positive number is waxing and indicates Virtue has the upper hand. If the resulting Virtue or Vice score is less then or equal to the Neutral Score the shard is in Equilibrium]

Currently there is no "in game" mechanic to determine if a guild supports Vice or Virtue. To add another dimension to the conflict I will maintain a list of guilds that are aggressive in nature (attacking people on site) and non aggressive/cooperative towards others (speaking rather then attacking). The Aggressive Guilds will be listed as "Vice" and will be attacked on site while NoN-Aggressive Guilds will be listed as "Virtue". In addition I will maintain a list of guilds who are "Neutral" as well as a list for Individuals called "Betrayers". Betrayers are known griefers and scammers who fight for no side other then themselves, they continually act in a manner that undermines community and disrupts events.

Virtue Guilds - Good Aligned, Stands for Virtue, opposes to Evil/Vice. Speaks rather then engages in combat against Virtue, innocents or those who are not yet known, may conduct battle without warning against aggressors and those on the Vice/Betrayers list. Virtue Guilds may engage in Honorable Competition (no looting) amongst each other for Cities and engage in friendly warfare to claim towns in the name of Virtue.

- Independent City State of Gilfane [Gil]
- Loria, Kingdom of Light [Lore]
- Minocian Partisans Resistance [MPR*]
- Last Man Standing [LMS]
- Random Chaos [R-C]
- Legion of Honor [L*H]
- Four Horseman [4H]
- White Council Britannians [WCB]
- Spy vs Spy [MAD!]
- Citizens of Wispwood Shire [CWS]
- Keepers of the Virtuous Path [KVP]
- Iron Claw Empire [ICE]
- ipku [IPKU]

Vice Guilds - Sworn to Vice, Against the Virtues, May attack without warning or provocation against Virtue but also innocents in town, Betrayers or fellow Vice members - considered extremely volatile and dangerous. [Added a Tag called (RP Vice) which means the guilds act more like Virtue Guilds but are role-playing support for the Vice armies].

-Brave Amateurs [B^A]
-Terror and Anarchy [TnA]
-Treasure and Treachery [TnT]
-Hidden Order of Outcasts [HOoO]
-Bad Ass [BA]
-Animality [ZOO]

Neutral/Undetermined Guilds: Non aggressive Guilds and Individuals sworn to neither Vice nor Virtue or which to little information is known to make a determination

-The Dark Outlaws [TDO*] (RP)
-Barter Town Inc [^__^]
-Golden Skull Savages [CLAN]
-Shadow Light [S L]
-Prepare to be Boarded [Arrr]
-Pirates [YARR]
-Game of Thrones [GoT]

Betrayers (Guilds/Individuals that are against both Vice and Virtue, Will not respect events, distrusted by all scammers and griefers. Also people found farming kills by murdering Alts will have scores removed. Scores, Kills and Rank are blacked out until they improve standing in community)

- T R U [FYOU]
-Diablo Thantis [FYOU]
-Mike-D [GlL] (Fake Gilfane tag and may claim to be in Gilfane) [Was asked to change tags and stop impersonating another guild. Refused but has informed me that he no longer plays Siege and I will remove him from Betrayer list after 90 days]

[If you wish to add your guild or report another guild as Vice, Virtue, or Betrayer please post a response to this post with as many details as possible so that it can be reviewed. If the findings hold true the guild will be added to the appropriate list. If you believe you or your guild has been misrepresented contact Lore Denin [96629882] with your appeal and it will be reviewed]

Current Scores and Standings:

Top Guild Scores
View attachment 32767

Top Individual Scores
View attachment 32770

Top Guild Kills
View attachment 32768
Top Individual Kills
View attachment 32769
Top Guild Sigils
View attachment 32771
Top Individual Sigils
View attachment 32772

UPDATED for Week of June 8th, 2015

-Added Shard Status of Equilibrium. If resulting score of Virtue - Vice is equal or less then the total score of Neutral Guilds the result will be a shard in Equilibrium, balanced between Vice and Virtue.

-Added RP TAG to the title of Post to eliminate some confusion people had as to the purpose of the post.

 

[FrejaSP]

Hmm, do that mean TDO's scores do not count as we moved to Neutral? I sure not like our scores to count as Virtue or be shared, so they don't count.
This get more and more complicated, I really want TDO* to be Vice more than Virtue as our guild charter is Vice. Only reason I wanted to move TDO to Neutral is, we do have friends in both Virtue and Vice but we do not seem to be allowed to RP one of the sides.

This below is not just for you Lore but for all
Right now, TDO can't really join the fun, if we help one alliance, other 2 alliances are going to tell, they will dry loot us and without an alliance we are very alone. I can only see it, will be even harder for other small, maybe new guilds to try be a part of VvV.

I wish we could drop all the heavy looting and try to share some fun. In old days, a guild/player, who do heavy loot, would get that back and a guild/player, who loot very light would get that back. No looting was used to show respect and heavy looting was used to show disrespect. When I was UDL, it was not my guild tag but my reputation that did count.

It had always been unwrited rules, I believe it's hard write this rules down for the whole shard. I believe each guild should have their rules for PvP.

We had seen alot more PvP sinse this event started, that's great but I'm very sad to see GIL stop doing VvV. We need to all try to make this sundays more friendly and fun.

I had really enjoyed getting back to PvP and had enjoyed fighting members from all 3 alliances. Most are my friends but I still love fighting you but I don't like be punished for having friends in all alliances.

I try to not join up with one alliance vs an other. Lets say, I fight B^A or GIL and FYOU show up and attack B^A or GIL, I will stop my fighting and let them fight. On the other hand if FYOU both attack me and B^A or GIL, I will fight side with B^A or GIL as FYOU invited both me and them to the fight.

Same if I fight FYOU and B^A or GIL show up and attack FYOU, I will stop my fighting and let them fight. On the other hand if B^A or GIL both attack me and FYOU, I will fight side with FYOU as B^A or GIL invited both me and them to the fight.

I would like to hear some more opinions this issues we have at the moment.

And again, this sundays had been good for the shard, it's long time I had seen so much PvP on Siege as the last month.

 

[FrejaSP]

I was wondering how half of an alliance could be Vice and other half Virtue

And I still don't like the betrayer group, I find it's up to each guild, who they choose to put on their KOS list. Shard never had a shared KOS list, that all had to follow and we should never have.

I believe it's much easier to do this on a Prodo shard, where VvV only works in Fel, on Siege I fear a list like this can't work.

 

[Bo Bo]

here's the Bo's thoughts, not that it really matters or anyone will pay attention to them.
1. putting people in categories, nbd. who cares, why do you care? VvV is about choosing a side, if you want to be in VvV you are basically saying you chose a side.
2. these alliances, that is the issue here. How could people be in alliances with guilds who hate each other and fight all the time? Do you really need the safety in numbers mentality? Why do you people have soo many huge alliances? why not just make them guildmates?
The Bo has always thought that you are who you hang round with. If you choose to be friends with someone (this means being in an alliance with them) than you suffer the same shame as them. If they do pull a scummer move you are just as much at fault as the scummer.
An alliance is a pact, coalition or friendship between two or more parties, made in order to advance common goals and to secure common interests. See if you are allied to a scummer you are basically sharing common goals.

 

[Bo Bo]

oh yeah btw your lists are trash unless you lump all the people in an alliance in the same category.

 

[FrejaSP]

I have been close to Lore in all this and I know he do not have the "holier then thou group" attitude. He happen to RP on the Virtue side but respect the Vice side too. He had been a PvP'er sinse early UO with Good guilds vs evil guilds including the Shades from RP good and evil to Noto PK's and Grief PK's, he had done Order/Chaos, Faction and now VvV, he is not new to this. Don't put him in same box as the "holier then thou group", he do not deserve that.
He try to work with all groups to make this become a success and more active PvP'ers will bring more life to Siege, even when some may not agree, it good for Siege.

 

[kelmo]

I would not take all of this so seriously...

I agree with Bo, the company you keep does reflect upon you.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

First let me say I am sorry I did not post an official event this week. Things were busy at home and the EM event took up my writing/playing time. The events had not gone well when I posted for shard but was out of town so I thought it better to not post one this week since I would be unable to attend.

Second, congrats to the Shard for going out at the regular patrol time and meeting each other in towns. Its nice to see that even without an official event, people are willing to log on and meet for battle during the regularly scheduled times. I hope people are having fun!

Third, I think some people may see all the posts here as discouraging or mean things are "failing" or sky is falling etc. Its the opposite, these are normal growing pains to expanding pvp and pvp participation. I read all the comments and do my best to make adjustments to events each week to accommodate players desires and playstyles.

Things to look forward to in the Future:

-Continued Patrols with both non looting and looting portion
-Larger scale battles with full loot. [Battle of the Lorian Plains - battle where winning means removing all enemies from field, and thus looting is a big part of permant removal of your enemies]
-Capture the Flag type events what will incorporating the Faction bases for faction style defenses and sieges.

We now have an active VvV base to work from and well defined sides and alliances.

Some of the events will be open to the entire shard, others will include all but those on Betrayers list. To Echo Freja, I dislike having a Betrayers list and hope TRU and Diablo can make some simple changes so they can participate with the rest of the shard [ie not looting in the non loot phase of an event, etc]

-Lore

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Hmm, do that mean TDO's scores do not count as we moved to Neutral? I sure not like our scores to count as Virtue or be shared, so they don't count.
This get more and more complicated, I really want TDO* to be Vice more than Virtue as our guild charter is Vice. Only reason I wanted to move TDO to Neutral is, we do have friends in both Virtue and Vice but we do not seem to be allowed to RP one of the sides.

Understanding Shard Status Score

For clarification, neutral scores are the most powerful. Vice and Virtue are opposed so the scores counter each other. Whereas neutral scores are added together with no opposing force....(I dislike how scores in VvV are so high only a mob accountant can make sense of them, so here is a simple example of how it works)
Virtue Guilds Total Score: 8
Vice Guilds Total Score: 6
Neutral Guilds Total Score: 2

Shard status: 8(virtue)-6 (vice)= |2|= virtue winning by overall score of 2 over vice...

Then take virtue score and check if its greater then neutral score, its not (2 = 2) not greater so shard is in equilibrium (Balance/Neutral)

Thus even with neutral having a much lower score then Vice or Virtue, its score only has to compete with the result of the two opposing forces.

Imagine a boat with Vice people trying to tip it one way and Virtue the other.. both sides have to not over come the other but all the people sitting in the middle.

Right now, TDO can't really join the fun, if we help one alliance, other 2 alliances are going to tell, they will dry loot us and without an alliance we are very alone. I can only see it, will be even harder for other small, maybe new guilds to try be a part of VvV.

I wish we could drop all the heavy looting and try to share some fun. In old days, a guild/player, who do heavy loot, would get that back and a guild/player, who loot very light would get that back. No looting was used to show respect and heavy looting was used to show disrespect. When I was UDL, it was not my guild tag but my reputation that did count.

Couldn't agree more. Esp since you are well known to no loot anyone, its very sad that anyone is looting you. Both of us agree rules on looting are hard to enforce and so they are intentionally not included in definitions of Virtue/Vice/Neutral. The only time there are rules are during organized events which amount to an hour a week. Outside of that Guilds pretty much establish them amongst themselves.

That being said if you enjoy pvp and fights, then your best option is not to loot. You shoot yourself in the foot and end up wandering around towns asking, "Why no one will fight me"

You know I don't loot and most of the Virtue Guilds won't loot, IPKU, GIL, etc. Seems like most BA won't loot either, Sir Vincent, Dark Star, etc maybe some of the new ones are learning like ZOO but most players realize its better to encourage battles rather then grief people out of participation.

I really hope its not FYOU looting you, particularly Diablo or Tru as you stick your head out for them time and time again and are really trying to help them when many have lost hope. Really hope that isn't what is happening.

-Lore

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

Correction: check if the module of the score is greater than neutral score. So in the given case with neutral score of 2, a (virtue-vice) of from -2 to 2 would result in the balance status, while -3 and lower would be vice domination.

 

[FrejaSP]

I really hope its not FYOU looting you, particularly Diablo or Tru as you stick your head out for them time and time again and are really trying to help them when many have lost hope. Really hope that isn't what is happening.

Don't worried about that.
It is Siege, so looting can happen, I have hard with seeing why it would be worse if they loot me than some from one of the 2 other alliances loot me. The issues we had, had to do with have to do with the wars between the alliances and TDO having friends in all alliances. When 2 friends fight, it's hard if you end up in the fight too, both friends will feel betrayed if you do not help them, special if they get looted.

My consern about looting is, we all like a good fight and killing someone who run in cheap armor will be less challenge to fight. I do die alot more than I kill, so will most players new to PvP. If they get heavy looted just a few times a week, they can't afford PvP and they will give up. It's fair players who do heavy loot get heavy looted, but if a new Guild or player start heavy looting, tell him why he is looted.

Yes we have seen player seaching for a fight but as the players will heavy loot most of their victims, noone really want to fight them.

Mish and I had been able to accept the fight because most like us and we rarely get looted. I want to say thanks for that. We had also looting rules in our guild rules. I do not tell my members not to loot at all, my rules say don't loot suit and weapons. Members can choose to loot gold potions, reg, petals etc., bag with monster loot, resources harvisting in our forest of mines.

I may not be as much on the next weeks but I will try be in the battle town if someone want to fight, and as long I can afford gold, resources and time to keep Freja in a good suit, I will try. The time Tina Tink need to make suit to me or other customers like Lore will keep Freja out of towns.

See you on the battle field

 

[FrejaSP]

Understanding Shard Status Score

For clarification, neutral scores are the most powerful. Vice and Virtue are opposed so the scores counter each other. Whereas neutral scores are added together with no opposing force....(I dislike how scores in VvV are so high only a mob accountant can make sense of them, so here is a simple example of how it works)
Virtue Guilds Total Score: 8
Vice Guilds Total Score: 6
Neutral Guilds Total Score: 2

Shard status: 8(virtue)-6 (vice)= |2|= virtue winning by overall score of 2 over vice...

Then take virtue score and check if its greater then neutral score, its not (2 = 2) not greater so shard is in equilibrium (Balance/Neutral)

Thus even with neutral having a much lower score then Vice or Virtue, its score only has to compete with the result of the two opposing forces.

Imagine a boat with Vice people trying to tip it one way and Virtue the other.. both sides have to not over come the other but all the people sitting in the middle.

I still don't like this score system, maybe count alliances score, sadly we can't see on Search.uo.com, who is allied who and who is VvV, so not easy. Because 2 alliances are Virtue or Vile, they may not have same enemies and same goals for the towns. I don't see what should stop 2 Virtue guilds/alliances being enemies, special if we will see updates like you wish, where top score have more control over towns and scores was from each town.

There is not just 2 sides, I think that part is a week part of VvV, should had been alliances vs alliances or guild vs guilds

 

[Critical Gaming]

Dude look I'm 21-0.

*flex*

 

[Bo Bo]

Dude look I'm 21-0.

*flex*

not tryin to burst your bubble but you go and sign up with the numbers, kinda chickenshitesk, the Bo would rather die than join up with some of the turds you did.

 

[Ol MacDeezy]

not tryin to burst your bubble but you go and sign up with the numbers, kinda chickenshitesk, the Bo would rather die than join up with some of the turds you did.

all things considered they actually go out and fight in the towns and other places more often than most of us and crush their foes before some us of can even get to the towns...and typically its 2 or 3 of them against whoever may be in the town...and on top of that they primarily fight a guild/alliance where there is more tamers than not so its not just people but a multitude of pet combos as well....so they are easily out matched yet still victorious majority of the time....